I've tried to stay out of this thread as much as I could; but since Paolo
is going to take this back to the "big picture" I'd like to take a second
here and say something, 'cause I perfer the big picture to the pissing wars
this could become (but thankfully hasn't yet (think "GNU/Linux" vs "Linux"
On Tue, Dec 07, 1999 at 09:28:45PM -0800, Nathan Meyers wrote:
> The drama never ceases. This is not a business for the faint of heart
> :-).
Not ideed :) Great post Nathan.
--
Paolo Ciccone
JBuilder dev.team
--
To UNSUBSCRIB
On Wed, Dec 08, 1999 at 12:07:07AM -0500, Nelson Minar wrote:
> I think we can all work together on this. A lot of us in the Linux
> community are annoyed and mystified by Sun's years-long snubbing of
> Linux in the Java world. It honestly makes no sense. The press release
> that came out today di
Though, by its nature, green thread does not support SMP. Any comment /
Steve
- Original Message -
From: "Weiqi Gao" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 1999 9:26 AM
Subject: Re: Native vs. green threads
> Scott Murray wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, 7 Dec
Man, it's hard to keep up with this business!
When the industry's first book about Java/Linux hits the streets in a
few weeks, it'll have several chapters about Blackdown and the Blackdown
port, and not a word about the Inprise port -- final editing was
completed weeks ago.
But thanks to a deal
I think we can all work together on this. A lot of us in the Linux
community are annoyed and mystified by Sun's years-long snubbing of
Linux in the Java world. It honestly makes no sense. The press release
that came out today did no good, either, ignoring the Blackdown
contribution entirely. But I
Juergen Kreileder wrote:
>
> I didn't say so. I don't have problems with somebody using our code.
> This is about respect!
Absolutely.
To Juergen and the rest of the Blackdown crew - *we* know the hard time
and effort you've put into this. Don't think you aren't getting the
respect from t
Since I cannot currently use the Blackdown 1.2.2 RC3 release as it
requires glibc 2.1.2 and I am currently stuck at 2.1.1, I decided to try
the Imprise 1.2.2 RC1 JDK. The first thing I have noticed is that the
font rendition is terrible compared to 1.1.8. The font is huge and
ugly, no matter wha
On Tue, Dec 07, 1999 at 10:21:26PM -0500, Will Koffel wrote:
> I won't incriminate my source on this, but as I understand it, Sun
> has been using an inhouse version of JDK1.2 for *many* months.
> It's possible that Sun just gave that away to Inspire for the "right"
> price.
Why there should be m
Ditto.
James Seigel wrote:
> I think this group knows who to credit for the work in the trenches when no one
> else was supporting us developers on the Linux platform. As always I give thanks
> to blackdown for their supreme efforts to make this real!
>
> James.
>
> Juergen Kreileder wrote:
>
On Wed, Dec 08, 1999 at 03:15:32AM +0100, Juergen Kreileder wrote:
> I didn't say so. I don't have problems with somebody using our code.
> This is about respect! What we have now is stuff like:
>
> 'The Sun/Inprise JDK is xx times faster than that Blackdown crap.'
>
> 'Finally
On Tue, Dec 07, 1999 at 08:37:11PM -0500, Scott Murray wrote:
> I don't really mean to be a bastard here, but here's an excerpt from one
> of your postings to this list earlier today:
>
> The Sun/Inprise port is not the same of Blackdown's, that's why the release
> number is different. The Su
At 9:52 PM +0100 12/7/99, Jo Uthus wrote:
>It is strange though that SUN/Inprise obviously has put a gag on
>employees and kept all information on the port secret. Well, I guess
>they have an answer to that (JBuilder3 running on Linux for instance,
>with a commercially supported JDK/JRE ?)
I won'
On Tue, 7 Dec 1999, Weiqi Gao wrote:
> Scott Murray wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, 7 Dec 1999, Matt Welsh wrote:
> > >
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nelson Minar) writes:
> > > >
> > > > However, I disagree that native threads are required for serious
> > > > applications. Green threads work surprisingly wel
Juergen Kreileder wrote:
> I didn't say so. I don't have problems with somebody using our code.
> This is about respect! What we have now is stuff like:
In case you're interested I've posted up an article to our LinuxGrrls.Org
site about this saying basically that, that LinuxToday are kindly l
>
> I think it is the drawback of the "Open Source" model. Technically,
> you can take any code and release it as yours after few changes.
>
Technically, this has nothing to do with the "Open Source" model.
Sun's JDK, the community license, or the blackdown port have little
in common with open
I think this group knows who to credit for the work in the trenches when no one
else was supporting us developers on the Linux platform. As always I give thanks
to blackdown for their supreme efforts to make this real!
James.
Juergen Kreileder wrote:
> > Paolo Ciccone writes:
>
> Paolo
Scott Murray wrote:
>
> On Tue, 7 Dec 1999, Matt Welsh wrote:
> >
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nelson Minar) writes:
> > >
> > > However, I disagree that native threads are required for serious
> > > applications. Green threads work surprisingly well for many
> > > applications. In some, they work bett
> Paolo Ciccone writes:
Paolo> On Tue, Dec 07, 1999 at 10:52:02PM +0100, Juergen Kreileder wrote:
>> AFAIK Sun has all the right to use our code. But todays press
>> release is a slap in the face for us!
Paolo> Juergen, as I posted in other messages we are actually
Paolo
On Tue, 7 Dec 1999, Scott Murray wrote:
[snip]
> What were we supposed to think? As well, I've read three different press
> articles on this today, and none of them contained the word "Blackdown".
> If Inprise/Sun wanted to give credit to the Blackdown team for providing
> a base for their furthe
On Tue, 7 Dec 1999, Paolo Ciccone wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 07, 1999 at 04:39:07PM -0500, Derek Glidden wrote:
[snip]
> > It looks like either someone at Inprise or at Sun isn't playing fair.
>
> We actually are. We didn't say that this is a clean port, in fact we
> are giving credit to Blackdown for
On Tue, 7 Dec 1999, Matt Welsh wrote:
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nelson Minar) writes:
> >
> > However, I disagree that native threads are required for serious
> > applications. Green threads work surprisingly well for many
> > applications. In some, they work better. I recently wrote a spider
> > p
On Wed, Dec 08, 1999 at 01:03:25AM +0100, Juergen Kreileder wrote:
>
> Early effort... Come on.
>
> Getting the VM running is the major part of the port. The step from
> 1.2 to 1.2.2 is so small that it nearly doesn't effect the port at
> all.
Well, you're free to think in this way but we had
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nelson Minar) writes:
>
> However, I disagree that native threads are required for serious
> applications. Green threads work surprisingly well for many
> applications. In some, they work better. I recently wrote a spider
> program that was invoking another program in a subpro
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nelson Minar) writes:
> I really don't want to be too critical of Blackdown. They've done a
> lot of really good work in a very difficult environment. But the
> releases and communication from Blackdown in the past few months have
> been pretty bad. We're fairly far behind in p
On Tue, Dec 07, 1999 at 06:28:29PM -0500, Jacob Nikom wrote:
> But it does matter how it was claimed. If the work was done by
> Inprise it is one thing, if it is only relabeling of Blackdown
> code, it is another.
yes, that would be plain and simple theft. We didn't "relabelled"
Blackdown JDK, wh
> Mo DeJong writes:
Mo> Has anyone seen this error with the new 1.2.2 RC3 download?
Mo> % javac
Mo> /abomination/hideous/mdejong/jdk1.2.2/bin/i386/native_threads/javac:
Mo> error in loading shared libraries:
Mo> /abomination/hideous/mdejong/jdk1.2.2/jre/lib/i386/native_thr
Has anyone seen this error with the new 1.2.2 RC3 download?
% javac
/abomination/hideous/mdejong/jdk1.2.2/bin/i386/native_threads/javac: error
in loading shared libraries:
/abomination/hideous/mdejong/jdk1.2.2/jre/lib/i386/native_threads/libhpi.so:
symbol sem_init, version GLIBC_2.1 not defined i
> Paolo Ciccone writes:
Paolo> We actually are. We didn't say that this is a clean port,
Paolo> in fact we are giving credit to Blackdown for the
Paolo> port. This has been done with the press at the Java Expo in
Paolo> New York and I personally posted here and on /. about ou
On Tue, Dec 07, 1999 at 10:52:02PM +0100, Juergen Kreileder wrote:
> AFAIK Sun has all the right to use our code. But todays press release
> is a slap in the face for us!
Juergen, as I posted in other messages we are actually giving you guys
credit for all the hard work you have done in the 1.2,
On Tue, Dec 07, 1999 at 04:39:07PM -0500, Derek Glidden wrote:
> Paolo Ciccone wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, Dec 07, 1999 at 03:47:23PM +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > I though the current 1.2.2 rc was 3, not 1? Have Sun picked up an older copy
> > > to release on their site?
> >
> > The Sun/Inpr
On Tue, Dec 07, 1999 at 06:28:29PM -0500, Jacob Nikom wrote:
> But it does matter how it was claimed. If the work was done by
> Inprise it is one thing, if it is only relabeling of Blackdown
> code, it is another.
I was speaking from a legal standpoint. According to Sun's brain-dead
license, the
But it does matter how it was claimed. If the work was done by
Inprise it is one thing, if it is only relabeling of Blackdown
code, it is another.
This is the text:
"Inprise and Sun Microsystems have taken a big step toward
maintaining open, standards-based network computing architectures
that u
Brian Pomerantz wrote:
> It doesn't matter who did the work on it. Sun owns the rights to
> any work done to their JDK. When the Blackdown group sends patches
> back to Sun, Sun can do with those patches what they want, including
> give them to Inprise to do their own work.
Legally speaking, yo
Okay, the problem with RC3, which exists in the Sun port, si, I
think, a problem in how the symlinks are grounded. Specifically, if I
change the java -> .java_wrapper symlink so that it is fully qualified
(i.e., java -> /home/seth/jdk1.2.2/bin/.java_wrapper), everything is
happy.
-Seth
-
Paolo Ciccone wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 07, 1999 at 12:31:28PM -0500, Scott Murray wrote:
> > Without native threads support, this release is IMO useless for running
> > any kind of serious Java applications on Linux.
>
> I disagree, we have a couple of very big applications running under this
> JDK,
On Tue, Dec 07, 1999 at 04:39:07PM -0500, Derek Glidden wrote:
>
> Not to dis you or your company's efforts, but if this is actually a
> "clean" implementation of the JDK straight from Sun sources and never
> having touched the Blackdown code, then I find the contents of
> jdk1.2.2/jre/README.lin
Here are some things I find interesting about Sun's JDK 1.2.2 RC1:
* Their (Sun's) bin/.java_wrapper starts with:
#!/bin/sh
#
# java_wrapper_linux.sh $Revision: 1.14 $ $Date: 1999/08/31 00:11:41 $
All in all this file is exactly what I've checked into the Blackdown
CVS tree:
revision 1.
Paolo Ciccone wrote:
>
> On Tue, Dec 07, 1999 at 03:47:23PM +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > I though the current 1.2.2 rc was 3, not 1? Have Sun picked up an older copy
> > to release on their site?
>
> The Sun/Inprise port is not the same of Blackdown's, that's why the release
> number is d
Before I start, let me say that competition is good :)
It is strange though that SUN/Inprise obviously has put a gag on
employees and kept all information on the port secret. Well, I guess
they have an answer to that (JBuilder3 running on Linux for instance,
with a commercially supported JDK/JRE
Hi,
I am running into strange problem. I have Redhat Linux6.0 and
blackdownjdk 1.2. When i compile my java-swing-jni application it
compiles fine but when i try to run it i get following errors!
Exception in thread "main" java.lang.Error: can't load
javax.swing.plaf.metal.MetalLookAndFe
Doug Robinson wrote:
| All of this interesting stuff but what about PPC &
| sparc-linux & alpha & all that?
As I've mentioned earlier, a Compaq-representative (former Digital)
announced first half of November that a jdk1.2-port is scheduled for
late Q4 (which really means: christmas-pre
>> Without native threads support, this release is IMO useless for running
>> any kind of serious Java applications on Linux.
>Realistically, I'm sure it's just a matter of time.
I suspect they'll get native threads out soon, too. I also expect
they'll end up needing to communicate some with the
A serious Java app "must" have native threads if:
a) It must use SMP (and the box it's running on has it),
b) It wasn't written well to deal with all threading models (for example,
non-preemptive threads) found under Java.
Since all serious applications are well written :-), perhaps Scott's
On Tue, Dec 07, 1999 at 07:18:08PM +0100, Peter Schuller wrote:
> > running the Linux kernel v 2.2.5 and GLibC v 2.1, 32 megabytes RAM
>
> Why on earth would it only support 2.2.5? Why not any 2.2.x kernel?
> Is there any difference that is significant for a JDK?
>
> I'm downloading it anyway
Hi
All of this interesting stuff but what about PPC &
sparc-linux & alpha & all that?
dkr
--
The Office of Doug Robinson.These types are not "abstract"; they are as
[EMAIL PROTECTED]real as int and float. - Doug McIlroy
---
I've now run the matrix bench over all hot VM's:
BlackdownJDK1.2.2RC3, SunInpriceJDK1.2.2RC1, IBMJDK1.1.8,
BlackdownJDK1.2PreV2, all running RedHat 6.1 on the same machine, a
PentiumIII@600 MHz
Results are here:
http://nicewww.cern.ch/~hoschek/colt/V1.0Beta4/doc/cern/colt/matrix/doc-files/Perform
Hi
> Without native threads support, this release is IMO useless for running
> any kind of serious Java applications on Linux.
Realistically, I'm sure it's just a matter of time.
> While I will admit that I myself have been sometimes frustrated by the
> speed of the Blackdown porting team, they
> running the Linux kernel v 2.2.5 and GLibC v 2.1, 32 megabytes RAM
Why on earth would it only support 2.2.5? Why not any 2.2.x kernel?
Is there any difference that is significant for a JDK?
I'm downloading it anyway to see if it works on 2.2.13...
--
/ Peter Schuller
PGP userID: 0x5584BD
On Tue, Dec 07, 1999 at 12:31:28PM -0500, Scott Murray wrote:
> Without native threads support, this release is IMO useless for running
> any kind of serious Java applications on Linux.
I disagree, we have a couple of very big applications running under this
JDK, including JBuilder, and the perfo
Tritonus developer page available
Tritonus is a freeware implementation of the JavaSound 0.9 API for
Linux.
Today, a developer's page was published, where people interested in
helping can find which features are not implemented and where
programming information or hints can be found.
Tritonus Dev
On Tue, Dec 07, 1999 at 03:47:23PM +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I though the current 1.2.2 rc was 3, not 1? Have Sun picked up an older copy
> to release on their site?
Sun's isn't a copy, it's a competitor -- a version developed by Inprise.
To quote from the product page for that version:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nelson Minar) writes:
> Looking at the output of the Blackdown team in the past six months I
> think it's fairly clear why Sun is looking elsewhere.
>
> I really don't want to be too critical of Blackdown. They've done a
> lot of really good work in a very difficult envir
On Tue, 7 Dec 1999, Paolo Ciccone wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 07, 1999 at 09:19:28AM -0500, Scott Murray wrote:
> > I'm praying that the Blackdown team continues it's work if this is what Sun
> > consider a useful release. I'm really curious as to why the hell Sun and
> > Inprise went off on their own
On Tue, Dec 07, 1999 at 06:15:14PM +0100, Robb Shecter wrote:
> Paolo Ciccone wrote:
>
> > ... this version
> > includes JPDA and several Swing bugs that we found ...
>
> Do you mean "bug fixes?"
Yeah, I still have to get my first coffe :).
--
Paolo
-
On Tue, Dec 07, 1999 at 03:47:23PM +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I though the current 1.2.2 rc was 3, not 1? Have Sun picked up an older copy
> to release on their site?
The Sun/Inprise port is not the same of Blackdown's, that's why the release
number is different. The Sun/Inprise port is a
Paolo Ciccone wrote:
> ... this version
> includes JPDA and several Swing bugs that we found ...
Do you mean "bug fixes?"
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL P
I wrote directly to Sun about it (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED],
attached below). I'll try to post the results of both JDK 1.2.2 ports
-- what I thought was Blackdown *and* Sun, and the new port from Sun --
to the Volano Report today or tomorrow.
John Neffenger
John Neffenger wrote:
>
> Dear Sun,
>
Scott Murray wrote:
> I though the current 1.2.2 rc was 3, not 1? Have Sun picked up an older copy
> to release on their site?
They appear to be two different projects now - Sun/Inprise announcing
today their RC1 and Blackdown their RC3.
It would be nice to have a comment from Blackdown as to e
On Tue, Dec 07, 1999 at 09:19:28AM -0500, Scott Murray wrote:
> I'm praying that the Blackdown team continues it's work if this is what Sun
> consider a useful release. I'm really curious as to why the hell Sun and
> Inprise went off on their own when the Blackdown port is available...
Besides e
>I'm praying that the Blackdown team continues it's work if this is
>what Sun consider a useful release. I'm really curious as to why the
>hell Sun and Inprise went off on their own when the Blackdown port is
>available...
Looking at the output of the Blackdown team in the past six months I
think
I though the current 1.2.2 rc was 3, not 1? Have Sun picked up an older copy
to release on their site?
On Tue, Dec 07, 1999 at 09:19:28AM -0500, Scott Murray wrote:
> Check out:
>
> http://www.newsalert.com/bin/story?StoryId=CoeYuubWbu0zuvteXmW
>
> Their J2SE 1.2.2 RC1 is available at:
>
>
We will give it a try on our development/trialing system and see how it
works for some loads. Blackdown rocks anyway.
--
Steve Nguyen
C.E.O
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
KBMail Software & Java Hosting Services Provider
Web site: http://kbmail.com | http://www.ebpcs.net
- Original Message -
The Blackdown Java-Linux Team is pleased to announce the
Blackdown Java 2 SDK Version 1.2.2 Release Candidate 3.
RC3 is available from the FTP mirrors listed at
http://www.blackdown.org/java-linux/mirrors.html
Note that this is not the final version of the Java 2 SDK Version
1.2.2. A final ver
I just benchmarked RC3 with compute intensive matrix computations and
compared against PreV2. Didn't yet get round to run on IBM.
Both perform well and visibly suffer from the small 256 KB Level-2 Cache
of the PentiumIII (as opposed to the UltraSparcII with 4 MB L2). Most
results show no signific
> Michael Sinz writes:
Michael> On Tue, 07 Dec 1999 11:36:20 +, Robert Krueger wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> starting a swing app with rc3 I see the following:
>>
>> Exception occurred during event dispatching:
>> java.lang.InternalError: Unsupported 24-bit depth
That
Check out:
http://www.newsalert.com/bin/story?StoryId=CoeYuubWbu0zuvteXmW
Their J2SE 1.2.2 RC1 is available at:
http://developer.java.sun.com/developer/earlyAccess/j2sdk122/
and here's their "System Requirements":
This version of the Java 2 SDK is supported on Intel Pentium platform
runni
On Tue, 07 Dec 1999 11:36:20 +, Robert Krueger wrote:
>Hi,
>
>starting a swing app with rc3 I see the following:
>
>Exception occurred during event dispatching:
>java.lang.InternalError: Unsupported 24-bit depth
[...]
>this happens when the X-output is displayed on an NT box using the
>Xwin
Hi,
starting a swing app with rc3 I see the following:
Exception occurred during event dispatching:
java.lang.InternalError: Unsupported 24-bit depth
at sun.awt.motif.X11Graphics.X11LockViewResources(Native Method)
at sun.awt.motif.X11Graphics.lock(X11Graphics.java:779)
Hi,
> "JN" == Jacob Nikom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
JN> However, when I looked at JAI web site and found they have only
JN> downloads for Solaris and Windows.
I have a servlet based application developed on Linux and deployed on
Win NT that uses JAI. As I needed the Windows version anyw
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