Re: [MBZ] Obligatory oil question

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

I'd been using LiquiMoly for my VWs as they have quite strict oil standards.
With rising prices I've switched to Rowe for my Jetta and Pentosin for Angie's 
Golf.

I'd use Rowe (a German brand) for both but they only have (at least through my 
distributor) a 5w30. Her car consumes 5w30 but not 5w40 so thats what it gets.

They all seem to be fine oil.

I'm working 12:30am to 5:30am this week for students in India. My parent's 
house was free so I've been staying there. Today I went to Wal-Mart to get 
supplies to change the oil in my mother's Jeep Cherokee. Mobil 1 0w20 was 
$29/5qt which I thought was pretty okay. They had zero cashiers working and the 
6 self check lines were backed way up. I very nearly walked out without 
purchasing, probably should have.

No good deed goes unpunished.

The job looks pretty easy, I'll do it after class while its still cool.

-Curt


On Tuesday, September 5, 2023 at 06:51:38 PM EDT, mitch--- via Mercedes 
 wrote: 





On 2023-09-05 17:26, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes wrote:
> My thinking is that oil today is so much better than it was 30yr ago, 
> or at least "better" whatever that means, so using any decent synthetic 
> is going to work fine.

What my industry contact says:

If it's certified API SP, GF-6, or Dexos1 Generation3, just about any 
"American" oil is going to be made to meet the standard as cheaply as 
possible. But that's OK, the standard is a very high hurdle. Doesn't 
matter if it's Kendall, M1, Syntec, Valvoline, or Pennzoil, the oils all 
perform the same.
EU advertising standards are higher, if it's sold in EU as 'synthetic', 
it's made with more expensive base stocks than USA 'synthetic'. In USA 
'synthetic' means 'whatever we want it to mean'.

One known exception: Redline exceeds SP. But my oil guy will charge me 
2-3x as much as he'll sell me Kendall for.

Royal Purple is no better than anything else.
Luqui Moly didn't enter the conversation, so I can't say if it's 
considered premium or not.

If it doesn't have the API logo on it, you don't want it, no matter how 
flowery the advertising lingo is. Oil guy speaks well of Warren made 
private label oils, including Amazon, Kirkland, or SuperTech. My last 
oil purchase was two 160oz jugs of Kirkland for $32 on sale. I could 
have gotten a 6 gallon bag in a box of Kendall as cheaply or cheaper, 
but I no longer use enough 5W30 to buy 24 qts at a time.


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Re: [MBZ] Obligatory oil question

[Bob Rentfro via Mercedes]

Ahh, an oil thread. Makes me feel young again.

AZBob

Sent from my iPad

> On Sep 5, 2023, at 3:51 PM, mitch--- via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> On 2023-09-05 17:26, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes wrote:
>> My thinking is that oil today is so much better than it was 30yr ago, or at 
>> least "better" whatever that means, so using any decent synthetic is going 
>> to work fine.
> 
> What my industry contact says:
> 
> If it's certified API SP, GF-6, or Dexos1 Generation3, just about any 
> "American" oil is going to be made to meet the standard as cheaply as 
> possible. But that's OK, the standard is a very high hurdle. Doesn't matter 
> if it's Kendall, M1, Syntec, Valvoline, or Pennzoil, the oils all perform the 
> same.
> EU advertising standards are higher, if it's sold in EU as 'synthetic', it's 
> made with more expensive base stocks than USA 'synthetic'. In USA 'synthetic' 
> means 'whatever we want it to mean'.
> 
> One known exception: Redline exceeds SP. But my oil guy will charge me 2-3x 
> as much as he'll sell me Kendall for.
> 
> Royal Purple is no better than anything else.
> Luqui Moly didn't enter the conversation, so I can't say if it's considered 
> premium or not.
> 
> If it doesn't have the API logo on it, you don't want it, no matter how 
> flowery the advertising lingo is. Oil guy speaks well of Warren made private 
> label oils, including Amazon, Kirkland, or SuperTech. My last oil purchase 
> was two 160oz jugs of Kirkland for $32 on sale. I could have gotten a 6 
> gallon bag in a box of Kendall as cheaply or cheaper, but I no longer use 
> enough 5W30 to buy 24 qts at a time.
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Obligatory oil question

[mitch--- via Mercedes]

On 2023-09-05 17:26, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes wrote:
My thinking is that oil today is so much better than it was 30yr ago, 
or at least "better" whatever that means, so using any decent synthetic 
is going to work fine.


What my industry contact says:

If it's certified API SP, GF-6, or Dexos1 Generation3, just about any 
"American" oil is going to be made to meet the standard as cheaply as 
possible. But that's OK, the standard is a very high hurdle. Doesn't 
matter if it's Kendall, M1, Syntec, Valvoline, or Pennzoil, the oils all 
perform the same.
EU advertising standards are higher, if it's sold in EU as 'synthetic', 
it's made with more expensive base stocks than USA 'synthetic'. In USA 
'synthetic' means 'whatever we want it to mean'.


One known exception: Redline exceeds SP. But my oil guy will charge me 
2-3x as much as he'll sell me Kendall for.


Royal Purple is no better than anything else.
Luqui Moly didn't enter the conversation, so I can't say if it's 
considered premium or not.


If it doesn't have the API logo on it, you don't want it, no matter how 
flowery the advertising lingo is. Oil guy speaks well of Warren made 
private label oils, including Amazon, Kirkland, or SuperTech. My last 
oil purchase was two 160oz jugs of Kirkland for $32 on sale. I could 
have gotten a 6 gallon bag in a box of Kendall as cheaply or cheaper, 
but I no longer use enough 5W30 to buy 24 qts at a time.


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Re: [MBZ] Obligatory oil question

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

I would use 15w40, regular or synthetic. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 5, 2023, at 4:17 PM, Donald Snook via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> I found out the seller of my new 124 has been using Liqui Moly 15-40 for 
> oil. He has only had it since 2021 and drove it less than 5000 miles.  
> 
> Is there any reason to keep using it?  I remember lots of discussion from Dr 
> Booth about synthetic oil. And many other differing opinions.  I don’t mind 
> using full synthetic. Mobil 1 isn’t horrible especially when it’s on sale.  
> But, I don’t remember the conventional wisdom on the best oil for the M103. 
> 
> Donald H. Snook
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Obligatory oil question

[dan penoff.com via Mercedes]

In my opinion, it doesn’t matter. I’m no oil snob, I use the minimum (at least) 
of what the manufacturer recommends or better. I changed most of my cars based 
on miles for years, but with our driving over the past few years being minimal 
at best, I am going to an annual change interval on those that don’t hit the 
mileage amount.

As long as you use a quality oil and change at or below recommended intervals, 
you’re good. I don’t see the value in buying premium oil like RedLine or 
LubroMoly. If you want to use oil samples to monitor your oil and change 
intervals, sure, it can make sense, but the time and money invested for the 
return isn’t worth it to me. And having worked with industrial engines for many 
years that use oil sampling programs religiously, I could do this, it’s easily 
within my abilities.

I don’t have any M103s in the stable currently, but I would likely use Mobil 1 
0W-40 or higher. Probably 15W-50 due to the age and miles on the engine. For 
example, my youngest son’s 2002 E320 with almost 105k on the clock was 
consuming oil. It’s rarely driven for any distance, which doesn’t help. I 
bumped it up from 0W-40 to 15W-50 and it’s barely used a drop in over 1,000 
miles since the last change.

The M103 likes to leak, especially from the front cover. Thicker oil can slow 
that down somewhat, too, as well as the possible leakage around the valve 
guides, which tend to start getting sloppy in these engines around 150k.

Just my $0.02.

-D

> On Sep 5, 2023, at 2:16 PM, Donald Snook via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> I found out the seller of my new 124 has been using Liqui Moly 15-40 for oil. 
> He has only had it since 2021 and drove it less than 5000 miles.  
> 
> Is there any reason to keep using it?  I remember lots of discussion from Dr 
> Booth about synthetic oil. And many other differing opinions.  I don’t mind 
> using full synthetic. Mobil 1 isn’t horrible especially when it’s on sale.  
> But, I don’t remember the conventional wisdom on the best oil for the M103. 
> 
> Donald H. Snook
> 
> 
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> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] Obligatory oil question

[Floyd Thursby via Mercedes]

People think that stuff is great, I'm not sure why.  I have been buying 
Costco synthetic and using that, it appears to be an analog to Mobil 1 
and is a lot cheaper.


My thinking is that oil today is so much better than it was 30yr ago, or 
at least "better" whatever that means, so using any decent synthetic is 
going to work fine.


Use Mann or Hengst filters, FCPEuro have them on sale occasionally so 
you can stock up on a few, then if you send them back you'll get another 
for free.  Kinda overkill for a $9 filter, but Iv'e collected 5 or 6 of 
them now so worth stuffing them in one of those flat rate things from 
the PO.


--FT

On 9/5/23 5:16 PM, Donald Snook via Mercedes wrote:

I found out the seller of my new 124 has been using Liqui Moly 15-40 for oil. 
He has only had it since 2021 and drove it less than 5000 miles.

Is there any reason to keep using it?  I remember lots of discussion from Dr 
Booth about synthetic oil. And many other differing opinions.  I don’t mind 
using full synthetic. Mobil 1 isn’t horrible especially when it’s on sale.  
But, I don’t remember the conventional wisdom on the best oil for the M103.

Donald H. Snook


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--
--FT
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[MBZ] Obligatory oil question

[Donald Snook via Mercedes]

I found out the seller of my new 124 has been using Liqui Moly 15-40 for oil. 
He has only had it since 2021 and drove it less than 5000 miles.  

Is there any reason to keep using it?  I remember lots of discussion from Dr 
Booth about synthetic oil. And many other differing opinions.  I don’t mind 
using full synthetic. Mobil 1 isn’t horrible especially when it’s on sale.  
But, I don’t remember the conventional wisdom on the best oil for the M103. 

Donald H. Snook


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Re: [MBZ] An oil question

[as.thompson--- via Mercedes]

For some reason my last couple of posts only display the copied content but not 
my writing.
So I’ll try again.
Scott, I certainly do remember Alice - in spite of my “elderly” status.
Addison

On Sep 20, 2017, Scott wrote:

Number 3 stepchild (Addison may remember Alice) proved this isn't the =
case.
> -Original Message-
> From:  Curley
  (According to urban  legend and CR)   They run for people who =
NEVER change the oil!  Toada EngInes are Majik!
> 



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Re: [MBZ] An oil question

[as.thompson--- via Mercedes]

I do remember Alice - in spite of my advancing elderly status…;-)
Addison



On Sep 20, 2017, Scott wrote:

Number 3 stepchild (Addison may remember Alice) proved this isn't the case.


> -Original Message-
> From:  Curley
  (According to urban  legend and CR)   They run for people who NEVER 
change the oil!  Toada EngInes are Majik!
> 



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Re: [MBZ] An oil question

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Aww, c'mon!   Toada en-gInes are Indestructable  (According to urban 
legend and CR)   They run for people who NEVER change the oil!  Toada 
En-gInes are Majik!



Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
August 9, 2017 at 8:10 AM
I believe with some cars dino oil = no warranty. VW I'm sure since no 
dino oil meets their specs. Toyota had that sludging thing when people 
didn't use the proper synthetic oil so I suspect thats their spec also.

-Curt



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Re: [MBZ] An oil question

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

In the past I've alternated fluid flush and full transmission service. If 
you're changing the fluid while it still has life in it, it shouldn't really 
matter.
-Curt


  From: Donald Snook via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: Mitch Haley <mi...@mitchellhaley.com>; Mercedes Discussion List 
<mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
Cc: Donald Snook <d...@snooklawllc.com>
 Sent: Wednesday, August 9, 2017 12:09 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] An oil question
   
I get the argument that a flush wouldn't clean the filter.  Similarly, a 
transmission service including the filter only replaces 40% or so of the fluid. 
 So, I suppose if one would like to do the best thing it would be to do a 
filter change AND a flush.  

Don Snook 

-Original Message-
From: Mitch Haley [mailto:mi...@mitchellhaley.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2017 9:04 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Subject: Re: [MBZ] An oil question


> On August 8, 2017 at 9:48 PM Russ Williams via Mercedes 
> <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> Don DON"T DO IT.
> Read these two articles
> http://www.agcoauto.com/content/news/p2_articleid/29
> http://www.agcoauto.com/content/news/p2_articleid/238

Quote of the day, it's like cleaning your air filter by driving on a clean 
road...

2. Transmission flushes: Running clean fluid through a dirty transmission 
filter, is like driving on a clean road and hoping to unstop a clogged air 
filter. When a transmission filter becomes restricted, damage occurs in the 
transmission. Flushing may only stir up the debris in the pan and further 
restrict the filter. A flush CANNOT clean the filter. A proper transmission 
service includes filter replacement on transmissions with replaceable filters.


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Re: [MBZ] An oil question

[Donald Snook via Mercedes]

I get the argument that a flush wouldn't clean the filter.   Similarly, a 
transmission service including the filter only replaces 40% or so of the fluid. 
 So, I suppose if one would like to do the best thing it would be to do a 
filter change AND a flush.  

Don Snook 

-Original Message-
From: Mitch Haley [mailto:mi...@mitchellhaley.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2017 9:04 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Subject: Re: [MBZ] An oil question


> On August 8, 2017 at 9:48 PM Russ Williams via Mercedes 
> <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> Don DON"T DO IT.
> Read these two articles
> http://www.agcoauto.com/content/news/p2_articleid/29
> http://www.agcoauto.com/content/news/p2_articleid/238

Quote of the day, it's like cleaning your air filter by driving on a clean 
road...

2. Transmission flushes: Running clean fluid through a dirty transmission 
filter, is like driving on a clean road and hoping to unstop a clogged air 
filter. When a transmission filter becomes restricted, damage occurs in the 
transmission. Flushing may only stir up the debris in the pan and further 
restrict the filter. A flush CANNOT clean the filter. A proper transmission 
service includes filter replacement on transmissions with replaceable filters.


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Re: [MBZ] An oil question

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

The other thing to note in the Blackstone study is that the newer oil is MORE 
damaging than used oil. I've seen this noted before too where the oil has to 
"break in" a little. I'm not sure I understand why but the numbers seem clear, 
if the oil can support it longer oil change intervals are better.
-Curt


  From: Donald Snook via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
Cc: Donald Snook <d...@snooklawllc.com>
 Sent: Wednesday, August 9, 2017 12:00 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] An oil question
   
Randy wrote: 

"For what it is worth, I will throw my 2 cents in . . .
I suspect that the primary advantage of synthetics is in either very hot or 
very cold weather.
Here in the great white north, we get a lot of pretty cold weather.
I believe we were led to believe that the oil would flow much better in the 
cold and provide more immediate protection to things like the bearings if we 
use synthetic oils.
I wonder what difference one might see if one were to put a gallon of the dino 
oil and a gallon of the synthetic oil in a freezer for a day or two and then 
pour them out.
I remember pouring out a jug of dino oil in cold weather and saw a big lump of 
some sort that looked like there was a can of the old STP in the jug. Not sure 
if the cold caused it to separate from the other ingredients but that was my 
thought at the time. Do the modern oils avoid that sort of thing? Do the 
synthetics do it better?" 


I remember Dr. Booth also saying that Mobil 1's other advantage/benefit was 
that it was able to carry a lot of soot/crud/contaminants in suspension better 
than other oils.  He said that Mobil 1 would clean out of a lot of gun that was 
clogging seals.  He said that this was one of the reasons that some folks 
experienced higher leak rates when first switching over to Mobil 1.  His theory 
was that once the crud and gunk was cleaned out the seals would soften and the 
leaks would get better.    I think I am remember this correctly.  This was what 
he said.  I have no idea if it is or was true.  But, he knew a hell of a lot 
more about this stuff than I did so I tended to believe his opinions on this 
subject.  

As was said earlier, the blackstone report indicates if you are changing the 
oil at 3-4000 miles, then don't waste your money.  But, if you want longer 
change intervals, I would stick with fully synthetic oils like Mobil 1.  I 
recently changed my oil and tried Schaeffer full synthetic oil.  It is supposed 
to allow longer intervals similar to Mobil 1.  I just took a 2000 mile trip 
that was relatively high speed at 80-85 consistently.  I wonder what my oil 
looks like now with only about 3,000 miles since it was changed.  

Don Snook  


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Re: [MBZ] An oil question

[Donald Snook via Mercedes]

Randy wrote: 

"For what it is worth, I will throw my 2 cents in . . .
I suspect that the primary advantage of synthetics is in either very hot or 
very cold weather.
Here in the great white north, we get a lot of pretty cold weather.
I believe we were led to believe that the oil would flow much better in the 
cold and provide more immediate protection to things like the bearings if we 
use synthetic oils.
I wonder what difference one might see if one were to put a gallon of the dino 
oil and a gallon of the synthetic oil in a freezer for a day or two and then 
pour them out.
I remember pouring out a jug of dino oil in cold weather and saw a big lump of 
some sort that looked like there was a can of the old STP in the jug. Not sure 
if the cold caused it to separate from the other ingredients but that was my 
thought at the time. Do the modern oils avoid that sort of thing? Do the 
synthetics do it better?" 


I remember Dr. Booth also saying that Mobil 1's other advantage/benefit was 
that it was able to carry a lot of soot/crud/contaminants in suspension better 
than other oils.  He said that Mobil 1 would clean out of a lot of gun that was 
clogging seals.  He said that this was one of the reasons that some folks 
experienced higher leak rates when first switching over to Mobil 1.   His 
theory was that once the crud and gunk was cleaned out the seals would soften 
and the leaks would get better.I think I am remember this correctly.   This 
was what he said.  I have no idea if it is or was true.  But, he knew a hell of 
a lot more about this stuff than I did so I tended to believe his opinions on 
this subject.   

As was said earlier, the blackstone report indicates if you are changing the 
oil at 3-4000 miles, then don't waste your money.  But, if you want longer 
change intervals, I would stick with fully synthetic oils like Mobil 1.   I 
recently changed my oil and tried Schaeffer full synthetic oil.  It is supposed 
to allow longer intervals similar to Mobil 1.   I just took a 2000 mile trip 
that was relatively high speed at 80-85 consistently.  I wonder what my oil 
looks like now with only about 3,000 miles since it was changed.  

Don Snook  


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Re: [MBZ] An oil question

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Which has always been my contention.
-Curt


  From: Mitch Haley via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
Cc: Mitch Haley <mi...@mitchellhaley.com>
 Sent: Tuesday, August 8, 2017 10:03 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] An oil question
   

> On August 8, 2017 at 9:48 PM Russ Williams via Mercedes 
> <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> Don DON"T DO IT.
> Read these two articles
> http://www.agcoauto.com/content/news/p2_articleid/29
> http://www.agcoauto.com/content/news/p2_articleid/238

Quote of the day, it's like cleaning your air filter by driving on a clean 
road...

2. Transmission flushes: Running clean fluid through a dirty transmission 
filter, is like driving on a clean road and hoping to unstop a clogged air 
filter. When a transmission filter becomes restricted, damage occurs in the 
transmission. Flushing may only stir up the debris in the pan and further 
restrict the filter. A flush CANNOT clean the filter. A proper transmission 
service includes filter replacement on transmissions with replaceable filters.

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Re: [MBZ] An oil question

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

If only somebody had already done that...
Oh wait, that was me...
https://youtu.be/1t-dOOnRwgU
-Curt


  From: Mitch Haley via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
Cc: Mitch Haley <mi...@mitchellhaley.com>
 Sent: Tuesday, August 8, 2017 6:27 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] An oil question
   

> On August 8, 2017 at 6:05 PM Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
> <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> So, based upon what you say, there may be little point in buying M1.
> What dino oil is good oil?


For your purposes, I think you have it figured out.
Buy a liter of something, stick it in the deep freeze overnight, and see what 
happens. After you test a few brands and pick a winner, set the losers aside 
for use in the lawn mower. 

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] An oil question

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

How do you know that? I asked Mobil back 4 or 5 years ago and the said it was 
still Group IV.
-Curt


  From: Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
Cc: Kaleb C. Striplin <ka...@striplin.net>
 Sent: Tuesday, August 8, 2017 6:05 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] An oil question
   
Dr Booth is wrong. Well at least now days. At one point he might have been 
correct. Not M1 is just hydrocracked Group III oil. It's not a true group IV 
synthetic. You have to get amsoil or the like to get a true synthetic now. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 8, 2017, at 2:34 PM, archer75--- via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> 
> So did my '83 300D. Dr. Booth did a lot of research on oils of several kinds 
> and finally concluded that Mobil 1, both for engine and transmission was the 
> best. After using Mobil 1 for both engine and transmission for 130K miles, 
> the transmission is still working well, and the retired Mercedes mechanic who 
> put in a new chain, said it was still a very good engine after 300K miles.
> ~~
> OK Don wrote:
>> I used M-1 tranny fluid in it, it seemed to smooth the shifts from how they
>> were when I got the car.
>> 
>> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 9:28 PM, Craig via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Well, transmission fluid, actually:
>>> 
>>> What transmission fluid is suitable for a 1990 300D/2.5 Turbo?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Craig
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> OK Don
>> 
>> *“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
>> our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain
>> 
>> "There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
>> learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
>> for themselves."
>> 
>> WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
>> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
>> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
>> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> arche...@embarqmail.com <arche...@embarqmail.com>
> 
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> http://www.avg.com
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] An oil question

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

I believe with some cars dino oil = no warranty. VW I'm sure since no dino oil 
meets their specs. Toyota had that sludging thing when people didn't use the 
proper synthetic oil so I suspect thats their spec also.
-Curt


  From: Randy Bennell via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: Mitch Haley via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
Cc: Randy Bennell <rbenn...@bennell.ca>
 Sent: Tuesday, August 8, 2017 6:05 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] An oil question
   
On 08/08/2017 4:46 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes wrote:
>> On August 8, 2017 at 5:17 PM Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
>> <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:> I wonder what difference one might see if 
>> one were to put a gallon of
>> the dino oil and a gallon of the synthetic oil in a freezer for a day or
>> two and then pour them out.
> 30 years ago, it was the difference between ketchup and olive oil.
> But "dino" oils have made huge advances, including some with base II and base 
> III stocks added to them, and "synthetic" oils may have stayed the same or 
> gotten worse.
>
> Mitch.
>
> ___

So, based upon what you say, there may be little point in buying M1.
What dino oil is good oil?

RB

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Re: [MBZ] An oil question

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

> On August 8, 2017 at 9:48 PM Russ Williams via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Don DON"T DO IT.
> Read these two articles
> http://www.agcoauto.com/content/news/p2_articleid/29
> http://www.agcoauto.com/content/news/p2_articleid/238

Quote of the day, it's like cleaning your air filter by driving on a clean 
road...

2. Transmission flushes: Running clean fluid through a dirty transmission 
filter, is like driving on a clean road and hoping to unstop a clogged air 
filter. When a transmission filter becomes restricted, damage occurs in the 
transmission. Flushing may only stir up the debris in the pan and further 
restrict the filter. A flush CANNOT clean the filter. A proper transmission 
service includes filter replacement on transmissions with replaceable filters.

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Re: [MBZ] An oil question

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Tue, 8 Aug 2017 13:35:27 -0500 "Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes"
 wrote:

> I will just stick with MB approved Maxlife at Walmart for $4 a qt

It's $4.97/quart; a gallon is $17.97, but my store didn't have any.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] An oil question

[Russ Williams via Mercedes]

Don DON"T DO IT.
Read these two articles
http://www.agcoauto.com/content/news/p2_articleid/29
http://www.agcoauto.com/content/news/p2_articleid/238

Russ W

On Tue,8/8/17 12:02, Donald Snook via Mercedes wrote:

Speaking of transmission fluid and servicing of them, anyone else done a 
transmission flush with the machines that shops have now?   I remember when 
they first came out there was a machine that allegedly pushed the fluid in 
reverse to replace it.   When I worked at the dealership, we had a machine that 
hooked into the cooler lines and cycled a full 14 quarts through the 
transmission -- but not in reverse.  It was the normal direction of flow -- 
whatever that means.  But, it worked great.  Years later, I had it done on a 
couple of my wife's cars at another shop.   In fact, I had it done on Craigs 
1990 300D when I owned it.  I have never had any problems with a car after 
doing the flush.  But, I have heard stories (possibly urban legends) that it 
has caused transmissions to fail.  I'm asking because I am considering trying 
it on my older BMW.  BUT, BMW transmissions are not technically serviceable.  
There is no dipstick and BMW says it is a sealed system and should not be serv!
  iced because it is built to last a lifetime.  I have never had a transmission 
problem on any of the 5 BMWs I have had.  So, maybe I shouldn't tempt fate.

Don Snook

-Original Message-
From: Max Dillon [mailto:dillonm...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2017 1:02 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Subject: Re: [MBZ] An oil question

Correct, I spent hours digging into the official MB oil sheets, and Dex III is 
the answer.  One can spend more (Mobil 1, Febi, Fuchs, etc) if desired, no harm 
except your wallet.  Personally I use the Febi fluid now, I used M1 for the 
first change though.





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Re: [MBZ] An oil question

[OK Don via Mercedes]

I have the same year truck/engine but only have 9,000 miles on it. It
mostly hauls the fuel barrel to the gas station to fill for the airplane,
and no ethanol fuel is now available only three miles from home.

I have been using M1 with an addition of ASL Camguard to help protect it
while sitting. Camguard is reputed to help protect seldom flown aircraft
engines from damaging the cam due to no oil on it when starting, so I hope
it's doing the same thing in the Ford. I might switch to a lower cost oil
next time though. I change it every year, whether it needs it or not . . .

On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 4:17 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> On 08/08/2017 3:35 PM, OK Don via Mercedes wrote:
>
>> There's a Youtube video out there that claims that after the law suit that
>> resulted in partially synthetic oils could be marketed as "synthetic", all
>> but one of the companies stopped making/selling true synthetic oil. I
>> believe that Herr Booth was correct, at the time, that M1 was far superior
>> and resulted in less wear, etc. However, the oils available to us today
>> are
>> the same as they were then. The results of that Blackstone Labs study has
>> convinced me that there is virtually no difference in the oils we can buy
>> today, so go cheap.
>>
>>
> For what it is worth, I will throw my 2 cents in . . .
> I suspect that the primary advantage of synthetics is in either very hot
> or very cold weather.
> Here in the great white north, we get a lot of pretty cold weather.
> I believe we were led to believe that the oil would flow much better in
> the cold and provide more immediate protection to things like the bearings
> if we use synthetic oils.
> I wonder what difference one might see if one were to put a gallon of the
> dino oil and a gallon of the synthetic oil in a freezer for a day or two
> and then pour them out.
> I remember pouring out a jug of dino oil in cold weather and saw a big
> lump of some sort that looked like there was a can of the old STP in the
> jug. Not sure if the cold caused it to separate from the other ingredients
> but that was my thought at the time. Do the modern oils avoid that sort of
> thing? Do the synthetics do it better?
> The jug that I was pouring was likely 10W30. These days we are using 5W20
> so much thinner to begin with.
> I have been running M1 for the last 15 years or more in my trucks and my
> wife's car but have never switched the old diesel to it as I have trouble
> finding the right grade around here. I only drive it in the summer and it
> gets few miles so I have never worried about it. Should I? Hard to say. I
> started out using Rotella and have switched to Delo.
> Am I wasting my money on the synthetic oils for the other vehicles? Hard
> to say.
> I have been a believer in changing oil and filter at very regular
> intervals - about 3000 miles when I was running dino. More like 4K to 5K
> with the synthetics. I had an 86 Taurus engine apart at over 100K miles due
> to a bad head gasket and the inside looked like new and it never had
> synthetic oil.
> I guess I have to think that any oil is better than no oil and clean oil
> is better than expensive dirty oil.
> However, engines have become expensive and complex and I sort of think of
> the synthetic as being more insurance against an expensive failure. My
> truck is a 2013 F150 with the 5 litre coyote engine. It only has about 39K
> miles on it. My wife's car is a 2007 Honda Accord with about 70K miles (if
> my memory is correct). We are not putting huge miles on so I only change
> the oil in either of them about 2X each year. Dino oil might be fine but
> the cost difference is minimal so I will likely carry on with the M1 in
> both of them.
>
> RB
>
>
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>
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>
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>


-- 
OK Don

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] An oil question

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

> On August 8, 2017 at 6:05 PM Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> So, based upon what you say, there may be little point in buying M1.
> What dino oil is good oil?


For your purposes, I think you have it figured out.
Buy a liter of something, stick it in the deep freeze overnight, and see what 
happens. After you test a few brands and pick a winner, set the losers aside 
for use in the lawn mower. 

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] An oil question

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

If you are using Dino oil which I do and you use factory internals, not doing 
extended drains, then it really doesn't matter. I used either Delvac 1300, or 
Walmart did have a castrol diesel oil for less than $10 per gallon I was using. 
Had all the same ratings etc. I did not see it last time. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 8, 2017, at 5:05 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> On 08/08/2017 4:46 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes wrote:
>>> On August 8, 2017 at 5:17 PM Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
>>>  wrote:> I wonder what difference one might see if 
>>> one were to put a gallon of
>>> the dino oil and a gallon of the synthetic oil in a freezer for a day or
>>> two and then pour them out.
>> 30 years ago, it was the difference between ketchup and olive oil.
>> But "dino" oils have made huge advances, including some with base II and 
>> base III stocks added to them, and "synthetic" oils may have stayed the same 
>> or gotten worse.
>> 
>> Mitch.
>> 
>> ___
> 
> So, based upon what you say, there may be little point in buying M1.
> What dino oil is good oil?
> 
> RB
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
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Re: [MBZ] An oil question

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

In applications I use synthetic I have switched to the delo 15w40 at Walmart 
which is cheaper than M1 and most likely is the same. I believe the Delo might 
be MB approved. For the 112 and 113 powered cars I still use M1 0w40 with is MB 
approved for those applications. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 8, 2017, at 4:17 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
>> On 08/08/2017 3:35 PM, OK Don via Mercedes wrote:
>> There's a Youtube video out there that claims that after the law suit that
>> resulted in partially synthetic oils could be marketed as "synthetic", all
>> but one of the companies stopped making/selling true synthetic oil. I
>> believe that Herr Booth was correct, at the time, that M1 was far superior
>> and resulted in less wear, etc. However, the oils available to us today are
>> the same as they were then. The results of that Blackstone Labs study has
>> convinced me that there is virtually no difference in the oils we can buy
>> today, so go cheap.
>> 
> 
> For what it is worth, I will throw my 2 cents in . . .
> I suspect that the primary advantage of synthetics is in either very hot or 
> very cold weather.
> Here in the great white north, we get a lot of pretty cold weather.
> I believe we were led to believe that the oil would flow much better in the 
> cold and provide more immediate protection to things like the bearings if we 
> use synthetic oils.
> I wonder what difference one might see if one were to put a gallon of the 
> dino oil and a gallon of the synthetic oil in a freezer for a day or two and 
> then pour them out.
> I remember pouring out a jug of dino oil in cold weather and saw a big lump 
> of some sort that looked like there was a can of the old STP in the jug. Not 
> sure if the cold caused it to separate from the other ingredients but that 
> was my thought at the time. Do the modern oils avoid that sort of thing? Do 
> the synthetics do it better?
> The jug that I was pouring was likely 10W30. These days we are using 5W20 so 
> much thinner to begin with.
> I have been running M1 for the last 15 years or more in my trucks and my 
> wife's car but have never switched the old diesel to it as I have trouble 
> finding the right grade around here. I only drive it in the summer and it 
> gets few miles so I have never worried about it. Should I? Hard to say. I 
> started out using Rotella and have switched to Delo.
> Am I wasting my money on the synthetic oils for the other vehicles? Hard to 
> say.
> I have been a believer in changing oil and filter at very regular intervals - 
> about 3000 miles when I was running dino. More like 4K to 5K with the 
> synthetics. I had an 86 Taurus engine apart at over 100K miles due to a bad 
> head gasket and the inside looked like new and it never had synthetic oil.
> I guess I have to think that any oil is better than no oil and clean oil is 
> better than expensive dirty oil.
> However, engines have become expensive and complex and I sort of think of the 
> synthetic as being more insurance against an expensive failure. My truck is a 
> 2013 F150 with the 5 litre coyote engine. It only has about 39K miles on it. 
> My wife's car is a 2007 Honda Accord with about 70K miles (if my memory is 
> correct). We are not putting huge miles on so I only change the oil in either 
> of them about 2X each year. Dino oil might be fine but the cost difference is 
> minimal so I will likely carry on with the M1 in both of them.
> 
> RB
> 
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> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
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> 
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Re: [MBZ] An oil question

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

It not sure but I have seen him pop up from time to time. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 8, 2017, at 4:07 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> The name Dan Elliot seems familiar to me, Gordon. 
> I just think he doesn't post often. 
> Hey Kaleb, has Elliot been on the list as long as you've been running it?
> Mitch.
> 
>> On August 8, 2017 at 4:40 PM Mountain Man via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Dan E wrote:
>>> I have a good friend...
>> 
>> Another Dan at OkieBenz?
>> Glad to be tin.man becuz there is another Dan here.
>> tin.man
> 
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Re: [MBZ] An oil question

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

It's 722.6 approved which means it will work for anything up to the 722.6 and 
older. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 8, 2017, at 3:57 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Correct.
> 
> And it is listed as an approved fluid in the Bevo, too.
> 
> -D
> 
> 
>> On Aug 8, 2017, at 4:52 PM, Craig via Mercedes  wrote:
>> 
>> On Tue, 8 Aug 2017 13:35:27 -0500 "Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes"
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>> I will just stick with MB approved Maxlife at Walmart for $4 a qt
>> 
>> Maxlife is made by Valvoline.
>> 
>> 
>> Craig
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] An oil question

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

For that matter Walmart supertec is probably fine if you want a regular non 
synthetic fluid. It's made by valvoline also I believe.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 8, 2017, at 3:52 PM, Craig via Mercedes  wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 8 Aug 2017 13:35:27 -0500 "Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes"
>  wrote:
> 
>> I will just stick with MB approved Maxlife at Walmart for $4 a qt
> 
> Maxlife is made by Valvoline.
> 
> 
> Craig
> 
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Re: [MBZ] An oil question

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

Right

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 8, 2017, at 3:52 PM, Craig via Mercedes  wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 8 Aug 2017 13:35:27 -0500 "Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes"
>  wrote:
> 
>> I will just stick with MB approved Maxlife at Walmart for $4 a qt
> 
> Maxlife is made by Valvoline.
> 
> 
> Craig
> 
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Re: [MBZ] An oil question

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

Dr Booth is wrong. Well at least now days. At one point he might have been 
correct. Not M1 is just hydrocracked Group III oil. It's not a true group IV 
synthetic. You have to get amsoil or the like to get a true synthetic now. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 8, 2017, at 2:34 PM, archer75--- via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> So did my '83 300D. Dr. Booth did a lot of research on oils of several kinds 
> and finally concluded that Mobil 1, both for engine and transmission was the 
> best. After using Mobil 1 for both engine and transmission for 130K miles, 
> the transmission is still working well, and the retired Mercedes mechanic who 
> put in a new chain, said it was still a very good engine after 300K miles.
> ~~
> OK Don wrote:
>> I used M-1 tranny fluid in it, it seemed to smooth the shifts from how they
>> were when I got the car.
>> 
>> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 9:28 PM, Craig via Mercedes 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Well, transmission fluid, actually:
>>> 
>>> What transmission fluid is suitable for a 1990 300D/2.5 Turbo?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Craig
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> OK Don
>> 
>> *“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
>> our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain
>> 
>> "There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
>> learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
>> for themselves."
>> 
>> WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
>> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
>> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
>> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
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Re: [MBZ] An oil question

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

On 08/08/2017 4:46 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes wrote:

On August 8, 2017 at 5:17 PM Randy Bennell via Mercedes  
wrote:> I wonder what difference one might see if one were to put a gallon of
the dino oil and a gallon of the synthetic oil in a freezer for a day or
two and then pour them out.

30 years ago, it was the difference between ketchup and olive oil.
But "dino" oils have made huge advances, including some with base II and base III stocks 
added to them, and "synthetic" oils may have stayed the same or gotten worse.

Mitch.

___


So, based upon what you say, there may be little point in buying M1.
What dino oil is good oil?

RB

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Re: [MBZ] An oil question

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

> On August 8, 2017 at 5:17 PM Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
>  wrote:> I wonder what difference one might see if one 
> were to put a gallon of 
> the dino oil and a gallon of the synthetic oil in a freezer for a day or 
> two and then pour them out.

30 years ago, it was the difference between ketchup and olive oil. 
But "dino" oils have made huge advances, including some with base II and base 
III stocks added to them, and "synthetic" oils may have stayed the same or 
gotten worse.  

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] An oil question

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

On 08/08/2017 3:35 PM, OK Don via Mercedes wrote:

There's a Youtube video out there that claims that after the law suit that
resulted in partially synthetic oils could be marketed as "synthetic", all
but one of the companies stopped making/selling true synthetic oil. I
believe that Herr Booth was correct, at the time, that M1 was far superior
and resulted in less wear, etc. However, the oils available to us today are
the same as they were then. The results of that Blackstone Labs study has
convinced me that there is virtually no difference in the oils we can buy
today, so go cheap.



For what it is worth, I will throw my 2 cents in . . .
I suspect that the primary advantage of synthetics is in either very hot 
or very cold weather.

Here in the great white north, we get a lot of pretty cold weather.
I believe we were led to believe that the oil would flow much better in 
the cold and provide more immediate protection to things like the 
bearings if we use synthetic oils.
I wonder what difference one might see if one were to put a gallon of 
the dino oil and a gallon of the synthetic oil in a freezer for a day or 
two and then pour them out.
I remember pouring out a jug of dino oil in cold weather and saw a big 
lump of some sort that looked like there was a can of the old STP in the 
jug. Not sure if the cold caused it to separate from the other 
ingredients but that was my thought at the time. Do the modern oils 
avoid that sort of thing? Do the synthetics do it better?
The jug that I was pouring was likely 10W30. These days we are using 
5W20 so much thinner to begin with.
I have been running M1 for the last 15 years or more in my trucks and my 
wife's car but have never switched the old diesel to it as I have 
trouble finding the right grade around here. I only drive it in the 
summer and it gets few miles so I have never worried about it. Should I? 
Hard to say. I started out using Rotella and have switched to Delo.
Am I wasting my money on the synthetic oils for the other vehicles? Hard 
to say.
I have been a believer in changing oil and filter at very regular 
intervals - about 3000 miles when I was running dino. More like 4K to 5K 
with the synthetics. I had an 86 Taurus engine apart at over 100K miles 
due to a bad head gasket and the inside looked like new and it never had 
synthetic oil.
I guess I have to think that any oil is better than no oil and clean oil 
is better than expensive dirty oil.
However, engines have become expensive and complex and I sort of think 
of the synthetic as being more insurance against an expensive failure. 
My truck is a 2013 F150 with the 5 litre coyote engine. It only has 
about 39K miles on it. My wife's car is a 2007 Honda Accord with about 
70K miles (if my memory is correct). We are not putting huge miles on so 
I only change the oil in either of them about 2X each year. Dino oil 
might be fine but the cost difference is minimal so I will likely carry 
on with the M1 in both of them.


RB

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Re: [MBZ] An oil question

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

The name Dan Elliot seems familiar to me, Gordon. 
I just think he doesn't post often. 
Hey Kaleb, has Elliot been on the list as long as you've been running it?
Mitch.

> On August 8, 2017 at 4:40 PM Mountain Man via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Dan E wrote:
> > I have a good friend...
> 
> Another Dan at OkieBenz?
> Glad to be tin.man becuz there is another Dan here.
> tin.man

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Re: [MBZ] An oil question

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Correct.

And it is listed as an approved fluid in the Bevo, too.

-D


> On Aug 8, 2017, at 4:52 PM, Craig via Mercedes  wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 8 Aug 2017 13:35:27 -0500 "Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes"
>  wrote:
> 
>> I will just stick with MB approved Maxlife at Walmart for $4 a qt
> 
> Maxlife is made by Valvoline.
> 
> 
> Craig
> 
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Re: [MBZ] An oil question

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Tue, 8 Aug 2017 13:35:27 -0500 "Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes"
 wrote:

> I will just stick with MB approved Maxlife at Walmart for $4 a qt

Maxlife is made by Valvoline.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] An oil question

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

The Blackstone info says that if you change your oil every 4000 miles it 
doesn't matter what oil you use. What MB says is that you must use oil that 
conforms to a certain MB specification if you want to run 10,000+ miles on a 
change. 

But yes, I believe that Mobil has chosen to cheapen M1 oils, at least the 
regular version, after Castrol succeeded in selling fake synthetic crap for 
more than Mobil charged for M1 25 years ago. (when Syntec came out it was $5 a 
qt and M1 was $4 a quart)

And who was it, Valvoline, that said some M1 didn't even meet the SAE spec on 
the bottle?

Mitch. 

> On August 8, 2017 at 4:35 PM OK Don via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
>  The results of that Blackstone Labs study has
> convinced me that there is virtually no difference in the oils we can buy
> today, so go cheap.

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Re: [MBZ] An oil question

[Mountain Man via Mercedes]

Dan E wrote:
> I have a good friend...

Another Dan at OkieBenz?
Glad to be tin.man becuz there is another Dan here.
tin.man

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Re: [MBZ] An oil question

[OK Don via Mercedes]

My only concern would be back-flushing, which might wash the crap caught by
the filter back into the tranny. Perhaps they do good enough a job
filtering the flushed fluid to remove it, but I would worry that the tranny
and cooler would also be filtering and capturing that crap.

On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 3:18 PM, Dan Elliott via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I have a good friend who has been a certified mechanic for years. Works on
> RR and Bentley and manufactures auto parts for these brands.
>
> He has spoken very favorably about the transmission flush machines, said
> he has seen them bring troubled transmissions back to life.
>
> Dan E
> 82 300D 167kmi
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Aug 8, 2017, at 1:34 PM, d...@penoff.com <d...@penoff.com> wrote:
> >
> > The issue that you allude to that is somewhat of an urban myth is
> related to severely worn transmissions that have a large amount of friction
> material in suspension. That is, if the transmission is reliant on the
> remains of the friction material in the fluid to provide some benefit to
> the clutches actually engaging, if removed, will render the transmission
> non-functional or marginal at best.
> >
> > This is a really severe example and highly unlikely to occur under
> nearly any circumstances.  However, it's the basis for the fear mongering
> over the use of commercial flushing machines.
> >
> > Flushing your transmission is no different that cracking open a cooler
> line and letting it pump fluid out while someone pours new fluid in.  I
> personally wouldn't do it for fear of running the transmission dry, but it
> can be done. While I'm not terribly keen about the idea, I'll be using the
> drain and replace approach to the E320 soon, as I just picked up a filter
> and pan seal from the dealer today.  You can do this 2-3 times over a month
> or less and you will have replaced the better part of the fluid.
> >
> > And I definitely don't prescribe to the "sealed for life" mentality.
> >
> > -D
> >
> >> On Aug 8, 2017, at 1:02 PM, Donald Snook via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Speaking of transmission fluid and servicing of them, anyone else done
> a transmission flush with the machines that shops have now?   I remember
> when they first came out there was a machine that allegedly pushed the
> fluid in reverse to replace it.   When I worked at the dealership, we had a
> machine that hooked into the cooler lines and cycled a full 14 quarts
> through the transmission -- but not in reverse.  It was the normal
> direction of flow -- whatever that means.  But, it worked great.  Years
> later, I had it done on a couple of my wife's cars at another shop.   In
> fact, I had it done on Craigs 1990 300D when I owned it.  I have never had
> any problems with a car after doing the flush.  But, I have heard stories
> (possibly urban legends) that it has caused transmissions to fail.  I'm
> asking because I am considering trying it on my older BMW.  BUT, BMW
> transmissions are not technically serviceable.  There is no dipstick and
> BMW says it is a sealed system and should not be serviced because it is
> built to last a lifetime.  I have never had a transmission problem on any
> of the 5 BMWs I have had.  So, maybe I shouldn't tempt fate.
> >>
> >> Don Snook
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Max Dillon [mailto:dillonm...@gmail.com]
> >> Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2017 1:02 AM
> >> To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [MBZ] An oil question
> >>
> >> Correct, I spent hours digging into the official MB oil sheets, and Dex
> III is the answer.  One can spend more (Mobil 1, Febi, Fuchs, etc) if
> desired, no harm except your wallet.  Personally I use the Febi fluid now,
> I used M1 for the first change though.
> >> --
> >> Max Dillon
> >> Charleston SC
> >> '87 300TD
> >> '95 E300
> >>
> >>> On August 7, 2017 11:23:36 PM EDT, "Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes" <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>> I'm sure it's fine too. There is noting special required
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
> >>>> On Aug 7, 2017, at 10:18 PM, Craig via Mercedes
> >>> <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> On Mon, 7 Aug 2017 22:00:50 -0500 "Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes"
> >>>> <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Whatever the current dextron is, or that maxlife synthetic

Re: [MBZ] An oil question

[OK Don via Mercedes]

There's a Youtube video out there that claims that after the law suit that
resulted in partially synthetic oils could be marketed as "synthetic", all
but one of the companies stopped making/selling true synthetic oil. I
believe that Herr Booth was correct, at the time, that M1 was far superior
and resulted in less wear, etc. However, the oils available to us today are
the same as they were then. The results of that Blackstone Labs study has
convinced me that there is virtually no difference in the oils we can buy
today, so go cheap.

On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 2:34 PM, archer75--- via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>
> So did my '83 300D. Dr. Booth did a lot of research on oils of several
> kinds and finally concluded that Mobil 1, both for engine and transmission
> was the best. After using Mobil 1 for both engine and transmission for 130K
> miles, the transmission is still working well, and the retired Mercedes
> mechanic who put in a new chain, said it was still a very good engine after
> 300K miles.
> ~~
> OK Don wrote:
> > I used M-1 tranny fluid in it, it seemed to smooth the shifts from how
> they
> > were when I got the car.
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 9:28 PM, Craig via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Well, transmission fluid, actually:
> > >
> > > What transmission fluid is suitable for a 1990 300D/2.5 Turbo?
> > >
> > >
> > > Craig
> > >
> > > ___
> > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >
> > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >
> > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > OK Don
> >
> > *“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many
> of
> > our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain
> >
> > "There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few
> who
> > learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
> > for themselves."
> >
> > WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
> > 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> > 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
> > 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
>
>
> --
> arche...@embarqmail.com 
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> http://www.avg.com
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>
>


-- 
OK Don

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] An oil question

[Dan Elliott via Mercedes]

I have a good friend who has been a certified mechanic for years. Works on RR 
and Bentley and manufactures auto parts for these brands. 

He has spoken very favorably about the transmission flush machines, said he has 
seen them bring troubled transmissions back to life. 

Dan E
82 300D 167kmi

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 8, 2017, at 1:34 PM, d...@penoff.com <d...@penoff.com> wrote:
> 
> The issue that you allude to that is somewhat of an urban myth is related to 
> severely worn transmissions that have a large amount of friction material in 
> suspension. That is, if the transmission is reliant on the remains of the 
> friction material in the fluid to provide some benefit to the clutches 
> actually engaging, if removed, will render the transmission non-functional or 
> marginal at best.
> 
> This is a really severe example and highly unlikely to occur under nearly any 
> circumstances.  However, it's the basis for the fear mongering over the use 
> of commercial flushing machines.
> 
> Flushing your transmission is no different that cracking open a cooler line 
> and letting it pump fluid out while someone pours new fluid in.  I personally 
> wouldn't do it for fear of running the transmission dry, but it can be done. 
> While I'm not terribly keen about the idea, I'll be using the drain and 
> replace approach to the E320 soon, as I just picked up a filter and pan seal 
> from the dealer today.  You can do this 2-3 times over a month or less and 
> you will have replaced the better part of the fluid.
> 
> And I definitely don't prescribe to the "sealed for life" mentality.
> 
> -D
> 
>> On Aug 8, 2017, at 1:02 PM, Donald Snook via Mercedes 
>> <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Speaking of transmission fluid and servicing of them, anyone else done a 
>> transmission flush with the machines that shops have now?   I remember when 
>> they first came out there was a machine that allegedly pushed the fluid in 
>> reverse to replace it.   When I worked at the dealership, we had a machine 
>> that hooked into the cooler lines and cycled a full 14 quarts through the 
>> transmission -- but not in reverse.  It was the normal direction of flow -- 
>> whatever that means.  But, it worked great.  Years later, I had it done on a 
>> couple of my wife's cars at another shop.   In fact, I had it done on Craigs 
>> 1990 300D when I owned it.  I have never had any problems with a car after 
>> doing the flush.  But, I have heard stories (possibly urban legends) that it 
>> has caused transmissions to fail.  I'm asking because I am considering 
>> trying it on my older BMW.  BUT, BMW transmissions are not technically 
>> serviceable.  There is no dipstick and BMW says it is a sealed system and 
>> should not be serviced b
 ecause it is built to last a lifetime.  I have never had a transmission 
problem on any of the 5 BMWs I have had.  So, maybe I shouldn't tempt fate.  
>> 
>> Don Snook 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Max Dillon [mailto:dillonm...@gmail.com] 
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2017 1:02 AM
>> To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] An oil question
>> 
>> Correct, I spent hours digging into the official MB oil sheets, and Dex III 
>> is the answer.  One can spend more (Mobil 1, Febi, Fuchs, etc) if desired, 
>> no harm except your wallet.  Personally I use the Febi fluid now, I used M1 
>> for the first change though.
>> -- 
>> Max Dillon
>> Charleston SC
>> '87 300TD
>> '95 E300
>> 
>>> On August 7, 2017 11:23:36 PM EDT, "Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes" 
>>> <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> I'm sure it's fine too. There is noting special required
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Aug 7, 2017, at 10:18 PM, Craig via Mercedes
>>> <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> On Mon, 7 Aug 2017 22:00:50 -0500 "Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes"
>>>> <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Whatever the current dextron is, or that maxlife synthetic in the
>>> red
>>>>> bottle at Walmart 
>>>> 
>>>> Not Mobil1 ATF?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Craig
>>>> 
>>>> ___
>>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 

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Re: [MBZ] An oil question

[archer75--- via Mercedes]

So did my '83 300D. Dr. Booth did a lot of research on oils of several kinds 
and finally concluded that Mobil 1, both for engine and transmission was the 
best. After using Mobil 1 for both engine and transmission for 130K miles, the 
transmission is still working well, and the retired Mercedes mechanic who put 
in a new chain, said it was still a very good engine after 300K miles.
~~
OK Don wrote:
> I used M-1 tranny fluid in it, it seemed to smooth the shifts from how they
> were when I got the car.
> 
> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 9:28 PM, Craig via Mercedes 
> wrote:
> 
> > Well, transmission fluid, actually:
> >
> > What transmission fluid is suitable for a 1990 300D/2.5 Turbo?
> >
> >
> > Craig
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> OK Don
> 
> *“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
> our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain
> 
> "There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
> learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
> for themselves."
> 
> WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


-- 
arche...@embarqmail.com 

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Re: [MBZ] An oil question

[Dan--- via Mercedes]

You can get 5 quart jugs at FLAPS for about that much, too.

-D

> On Aug 8, 2017, at 2:35 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I will just stick with MB approved Maxlife at Walmart for $4 a qt
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Aug 8, 2017, at 12:38 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> So who's got the best deal on Febi 08971 these days?  My '95 E300 is due
>> for an ATF fluid and filter change.
>> 
>> A couple months ago I caught a sale at FCP Euro, I think it was around $7
>> per quart or so.
>> 
>> -
>> Max
>> Charleston SC
>> 
>> On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 7:23 AM, Jaime Kopchinski via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Agreed, Febi 08971
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>> 
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] An oil question

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

I will just stick with MB approved Maxlife at Walmart for $4 a qt

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 8, 2017, at 12:38 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> So who's got the best deal on Febi 08971 these days?  My '95 E300 is due
> for an ATF fluid and filter change.
> 
> A couple months ago I caught a sale at FCP Euro, I think it was around $7
> per quart or so.
> 
> -
> Max
> Charleston SC
> 
> On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 7:23 AM, Jaime Kopchinski via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> Agreed, Febi 08971
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: [MBZ] An oil question

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Tue, 8 Aug 2017 14:11:54 -0400 Dan--- via Mercedes
 wrote:

> FCP Euro usually has good deals on the Febi fluid.

Since I need it now, I'll look for Mobil1 ATF.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] An oil question

[Dan--- via Mercedes]

FCP Euro usually has good deals on the Febi fluid.

There's very little fluid in the cooler.

-D

> On Aug 8, 2017, at 1:52 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> 
> The thing about the machine change is you don't get a filter change. I'm not 
> sure where the filter is in the equation, if its inline with the out to the 
> cooler you'd be pumping the crud into the filter and then not changing it 
> resulting in an increasingly dirty filter.
> If it were inline with the intake it'd just get bathed in new fluid but still 
> never replaced.
> 
> It only just occurred to me that doing the method of replace where the 
> machine replaces the cooler the fluid in the cooler doesn't get changed 
> unless it leaks out during the change. I suppose that there isn't that much 
> fluid in the average car's transmission cooler...
> 
> -Curt
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Re: [MBZ] An oil question

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

The thing about the machine change is you don't get a filter change. I'm not 
sure where the filter is in the equation, if its inline with the out to the 
cooler you'd be pumping the crud into the filter and then not changing it 
resulting in an increasingly dirty filter.If it were inline with the intake 
it'd just get bathed in new fluid but still never replaced.
It only just occurred to me that doing the method of replace where the machine 
replaces the cooler the fluid in the cooler doesn't get changed unless it leaks 
out during the change. I suppose that there isn't that much fluid in the 
average car's transmission cooler...
-Curt


  From: Dan--- via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
Cc: "d...@penoff.com" <d...@penoff.com>
 Sent: Tuesday, August 8, 2017 1:35 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] An oil question
   
The issue that you allude to that is somewhat of an urban myth is related to 
severely worn transmissions that have a large amount of friction material in 
suspension. That is, if the transmission is reliant on the remains of the 
friction material in the fluid to provide some benefit to the clutches actually 
engaging, if removed, will render the transmission non-functional or marginal 
at best.

This is a really severe example and highly unlikely to occur under nearly any 
circumstances.  However, it's the basis for the fear mongering over the use of 
commercial flushing machines.

Flushing your transmission is no different that cracking open a cooler line and 
letting it pump fluid out while someone pours new fluid in.  I personally 
wouldn't do it for fear of running the transmission dry, but it can be done. 
While I'm not terribly keen about the idea, I'll be using the drain and replace 
approach to the E320 soon, as I just picked up a filter and pan seal from the 
dealer today.  You can do this 2-3 times over a month or less and you will have 
replaced the better part of the fluid.

And I definitely don't prescribe to the "sealed for life" mentality.

-D

> On Aug 8, 2017, at 1:02 PM, Donald Snook via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Speaking of transmission fluid and servicing of them, anyone else done a 
> transmission flush with the machines that shops have now?  I remember when 
> they first came out there was a machine that allegedly pushed the fluid in 
> reverse to replace it.  When I worked at the dealership, we had a machine 
> that hooked into the cooler lines and cycled a full 14 quarts through the 
> transmission -- but not in reverse.  It was the normal direction of flow -- 
> whatever that means.  But, it worked great.  Years later, I had it done on a 
> couple of my wife's cars at another shop.  In fact, I had it done on Craigs 
> 1990 300D when I owned it.  I have never had any problems with a car after 
> doing the flush.  But, I have heard stories (possibly urban legends) that it 
> has caused transmissions to fail.  I'm asking because I am considering trying 
> it on my older BMW.  BUT, BMW transmissions are not technically serviceable.  
> There is no dipstick and BMW says it is a sealed system and should not be 
> serviced because it is built to last a lifetime.  I have never had a 
> transmission problem on any of the 5 BMWs I have had.  So, maybe I shouldn't 
> tempt fate.  
> 
> Don Snook 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Max Dillon [mailto:dillonm...@gmail.com] 
> Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2017 1:02 AM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] An oil question
> 
> Correct, I spent hours digging into the official MB oil sheets, and Dex III 
> is the answer.  One can spend more (Mobil 1, Febi, Fuchs, etc) if desired, no 
> harm except your wallet.  Personally I use the Febi fluid now, I used M1 for 
> the first change though.
> -- 
> Max Dillon
> Charleston SC
> '87 300TD
> '95 E300
> 
>> On August 7, 2017 11:23:36 PM EDT, "Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes" 
>> <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> I'm sure it's fine too. There is noting special required
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Aug 7, 2017, at 10:18 PM, Craig via Mercedes
>> <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> On Mon, 7 Aug 2017 22:00:50 -0500 "Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes"
>>> <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Whatever the current dextron is, or that maxlife synthetic in the
>> red
>>>> bottle at Walmart 
>>> 
>>> Not Mobil1 ATF?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Craig
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
> 


___
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Re: [MBZ] An oil question

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

Dan--- via Mercedes wrote:


And I definitely don't prescribe to the "sealed for life" mentality.



Sealed for life increases the chances of the transmission outlasting the 
warranty, so it's good for manufacturers, but it reduces the chances of the 
transmission lasting 300k mi to near  zero.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] An oil question

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

So who's got the best deal on Febi 08971 these days?  My '95 E300 is due
for an ATF fluid and filter change.

A couple months ago I caught a sale at FCP Euro, I think it was around $7
per quart or so.

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 7:23 AM, Jaime Kopchinski via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Agreed, Febi 08971
>
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] An oil question

[Dan--- via Mercedes]

The issue that you allude to that is somewhat of an urban myth is related to 
severely worn transmissions that have a large amount of friction material in 
suspension. That is, if the transmission is reliant on the remains of the 
friction material in the fluid to provide some benefit to the clutches actually 
engaging, if removed, will render the transmission non-functional or marginal 
at best.

This is a really severe example and highly unlikely to occur under nearly any 
circumstances.  However, it's the basis for the fear mongering over the use of 
commercial flushing machines.

Flushing your transmission is no different that cracking open a cooler line and 
letting it pump fluid out while someone pours new fluid in.  I personally 
wouldn't do it for fear of running the transmission dry, but it can be done. 
While I'm not terribly keen about the idea, I'll be using the drain and replace 
approach to the E320 soon, as I just picked up a filter and pan seal from the 
dealer today.  You can do this 2-3 times over a month or less and you will have 
replaced the better part of the fluid.

And I definitely don't prescribe to the "sealed for life" mentality.

-D

> On Aug 8, 2017, at 1:02 PM, Donald Snook via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Speaking of transmission fluid and servicing of them, anyone else done a 
> transmission flush with the machines that shops have now?   I remember when 
> they first came out there was a machine that allegedly pushed the fluid in 
> reverse to replace it.   When I worked at the dealership, we had a machine 
> that hooked into the cooler lines and cycled a full 14 quarts through the 
> transmission -- but not in reverse.  It was the normal direction of flow -- 
> whatever that means.  But, it worked great.  Years later, I had it done on a 
> couple of my wife's cars at another shop.   In fact, I had it done on Craigs 
> 1990 300D when I owned it.  I have never had any problems with a car after 
> doing the flush.  But, I have heard stories (possibly urban legends) that it 
> has caused transmissions to fail.  I'm asking because I am considering trying 
> it on my older BMW.  BUT, BMW transmissions are not technically serviceable.  
> There is no dipstick and BMW says it is a sealed system and should not be 
> serviced be
 cause it is built to last a lifetime.  I have never had a transmission problem 
on any of the 5 BMWs I have had.  So, maybe I shouldn't tempt fate.  
> 
> Don Snook 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Max Dillon [mailto:dillonm...@gmail.com] 
> Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2017 1:02 AM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] An oil question
> 
> Correct, I spent hours digging into the official MB oil sheets, and Dex III 
> is the answer.  One can spend more (Mobil 1, Febi, Fuchs, etc) if desired, no 
> harm except your wallet.  Personally I use the Febi fluid now, I used M1 for 
> the first change though.
> -- 
> Max Dillon
> Charleston SC
> '87 300TD
> '95 E300
> 
>> On August 7, 2017 11:23:36 PM EDT, "Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes" 
>> <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> I'm sure it's fine too. There is noting special required
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Aug 7, 2017, at 10:18 PM, Craig via Mercedes
>> <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> On Mon, 7 Aug 2017 22:00:50 -0500 "Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes"
>>> <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Whatever the current dextron is, or that maxlife synthetic in the
>> red
>>>> bottle at Walmart 
>>> 
>>> Not Mobil1 ATF?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Craig
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
> 


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Re: [MBZ] An oil question

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

https://youtu.be/o690DovjDAc

Here's your training video for the day...

-
Max
Charleston SC
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Re: [MBZ] An oil question

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

I don't buy the "sealed for life" part at all.  I'll bet there is a kit you
can get to install a dipstick / fill tube and change the fluid.  Is there a
filter too?  If there is no drain on the torque converter, then maybe the
flush would be a good idea, but I'd check around for a reputable BMW shop
and avoid the Quicky-Lube places.

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 1:02 PM, Donald Snook  wrote:

> Speaking of transmission fluid and servicing of them, anyone else done a
> transmission flush with the machines that shops have now?   I remember when
> they first came out there was a machine that allegedly pushed the fluid in
> reverse to replace it.   When I worked at the dealership, we had a machine
> that hooked into the cooler lines and cycled a full 14 quarts through the
> transmission -- but not in reverse.  It was the normal direction of flow --
> whatever that means.  But, it worked great.  Years later, I had it done on
> a couple of my wife's cars at another shop.   In fact, I had it done on
> Craigs 1990 300D when I owned it.  I have never had any problems with a car
> after doing the flush.  But, I have heard stories (possibly urban legends)
> that it has caused transmissions to fail.  I'm asking because I am
> considering trying it on my older BMW.  BUT, BMW transmissions are not
> technically serviceable.  There is no dipstick and BMW says it is a sealed
> system and should not be serviced because it is built to last a lifetime.
> I have never had a transmission problem on any of the 5 BMWs I have had.
> So, maybe I shouldn't tempt fate.
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] An oil question

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

Donald Snook via Mercedes wrote:

Speaking of transmission fluid and servicing of them, anyone else done a 
transmission flush with the machines that shops have now?


I remember seeing pictures of a vehicle (Nissan?) that had a tranny flush done, 
apparently either they used the coolant flush machine, or somehow got water or 
coolant in the tranny flush machine, anyway the tranny was full of pink milk and 
 somehow the friction material had come unglued from the clutch plates or some 
seemingly impossible but drastic failure like that...


...I don't know if it was an internet myth or not, but the story came with 
pictures, and it's kept me away from those machines for the past 15 years or so.


Mitch

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Re: [MBZ] An oil question

[Donald Snook via Mercedes]

Speaking of transmission fluid and servicing of them, anyone else done a 
transmission flush with the machines that shops have now?   I remember when 
they first came out there was a machine that allegedly pushed the fluid in 
reverse to replace it.   When I worked at the dealership, we had a machine that 
hooked into the cooler lines and cycled a full 14 quarts through the 
transmission -- but not in reverse.  It was the normal direction of flow -- 
whatever that means.  But, it worked great.  Years later, I had it done on a 
couple of my wife's cars at another shop.   In fact, I had it done on Craigs 
1990 300D when I owned it.  I have never had any problems with a car after 
doing the flush.  But, I have heard stories (possibly urban legends) that it 
has caused transmissions to fail.  I'm asking because I am considering trying 
it on my older BMW.  BUT, BMW transmissions are not technically serviceable.  
There is no dipstick and BMW says it is a sealed system and should not be 
serviced beca
 use it is built to last a lifetime.  I have never had a transmission problem 
on any of the 5 BMWs I have had.  So, maybe I shouldn't tempt fate.  

Don Snook 

-Original Message-
From: Max Dillon [mailto:dillonm...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2017 1:02 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Subject: Re: [MBZ] An oil question

Correct, I spent hours digging into the official MB oil sheets, and Dex III is 
the answer.  One can spend more (Mobil 1, Febi, Fuchs, etc) if desired, no harm 
except your wallet.  Personally I use the Febi fluid now, I used M1 for the 
first change though.
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300

On August 7, 2017 11:23:36 PM EDT, "Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes" 
<mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>I'm sure it's fine too. There is noting special required
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Aug 7, 2017, at 10:18 PM, Craig via Mercedes
><mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>> On Mon, 7 Aug 2017 22:00:50 -0500 "Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes"
>> <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Whatever the current dextron is, or that maxlife synthetic in the
>red
>>> bottle at Walmart 
>> 
>> Not Mobil1 ATF?
>> 
>> 
>> Craig
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>
>
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>
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>
>To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] An oil question

[OK Don via Mercedes]

I used M-1 tranny fluid in it, it seemed to smooth the shifts from how they
were when I got the car.

On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 9:28 PM, Craig via Mercedes 
wrote:

> Well, transmission fluid, actually:
>
> What transmission fluid is suitable for a 1990 300D/2.5 Turbo?
>
>
> Craig
>
> ___
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>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>
>


-- 
OK Don

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] An oil question

[Jaime Kopchinski via Mercedes]

Agreed, Febi 08971


On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 5:17 AM Dan--- via Mercedes 
wrote:

> I use the Febi stuff, too. Much cheaper than M1 and meets all the MB specs
> without exception.
>
> -D
>
> > On Aug 8, 2017, at 2:02 AM, Max Dillon via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > Correct, I spent hours digging into the official MB oil sheets, and Dex
> III is the answer.  One can spend more (Mobil 1, Febi, Fuchs, etc) if
> desired, no harm except your wallet.  Personally I use the Febi fluid now,
> I used M1 for the first change though.
> > --
> > Max Dillon
> > Charleston SC
> > '87 300TD
> > '95 E300
> >
> >> On August 7, 2017 11:23:36 PM EDT, "Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes" <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >> I'm sure it's fine too. There is noting special required
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >>> On Aug 7, 2017, at 10:18 PM, Craig via Mercedes
> >>  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, 7 Aug 2017 22:00:50 -0500 "Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes"
> >>>  wrote:
> >>>
>  Whatever the current dextron is, or that maxlife synthetic in the
> >> red
>  bottle at Walmart
> >>>
> >>> Not Mobil1 ATF?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Craig
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>>
> >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>>
> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>
> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> >
>
>
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> --
Jaime Kopchinski
http://www.jaimekop.com/
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Re: [MBZ] An oil question

[Dan--- via Mercedes]

I use the Febi stuff, too. Much cheaper than M1 and meets all the MB specs 
without exception.

-D

> On Aug 8, 2017, at 2:02 AM, Max Dillon via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Correct, I spent hours digging into the official MB oil sheets, and Dex III 
> is the answer.  One can spend more (Mobil 1, Febi, Fuchs, etc) if desired, no 
> harm except your wallet.  Personally I use the Febi fluid now, I used M1 for 
> the first change though.
> -- 
> Max Dillon
> Charleston SC
> '87 300TD
> '95 E300
> 
>> On August 7, 2017 11:23:36 PM EDT, "Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes" 
>>  wrote:
>> I'm sure it's fine too. There is noting special required
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Aug 7, 2017, at 10:18 PM, Craig via Mercedes
>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> On Mon, 7 Aug 2017 22:00:50 -0500 "Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes"
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
 Whatever the current dextron is, or that maxlife synthetic in the
>> red
 bottle at Walmart 
>>> 
>>> Not Mobil1 ATF?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Craig
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
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>> 
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>> 
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> 
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> 
> 


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Re: [MBZ] An oil question

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

Correct, I spent hours digging into the official MB oil sheets, and Dex III is 
the answer.  One can spend more (Mobil 1, Febi, Fuchs, etc) if desired, no harm 
except your wallet.  Personally I use the Febi fluid now, I used M1 for the 
first change though.
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300

On August 7, 2017 11:23:36 PM EDT, "Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes" 
 wrote:
>I'm sure it's fine too. There is noting special required
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Aug 7, 2017, at 10:18 PM, Craig via Mercedes
> wrote:
>> 
>> On Mon, 7 Aug 2017 22:00:50 -0500 "Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes"
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>> Whatever the current dextron is, or that maxlife synthetic in the
>red
>>> bottle at Walmart 
>> 
>> Not Mobil1 ATF?
>> 
>> 
>> Craig
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] An oil question

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

I'm sure it's fine too. There is noting special required

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 7, 2017, at 10:18 PM, Craig via Mercedes  wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 7 Aug 2017 22:00:50 -0500 "Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes"
>  wrote:
> 
>> Whatever the current dextron is, or that maxlife synthetic in the red
>> bottle at Walmart 
> 
> Not Mobil1 ATF?
> 
> 
> Craig
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> 


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Re: [MBZ] An oil question

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Mon, 7 Aug 2017 22:00:50 -0500 "Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes"
 wrote:

> Whatever the current dextron is, or that maxlife synthetic in the red
> bottle at Walmart 

Not Mobil1 ATF?


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] An oil question

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

Whatever the current dextron is, or that maxlife synthetic in the red bottle at 
Walmart 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 7, 2017, at 9:28 PM, Craig via Mercedes  wrote:
> 
> Well, transmission fluid, actually:
> 
> What transmission fluid is suitable for a 1990 300D/2.5 Turbo?
> 
> 
> Craig
> 
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[MBZ] An oil question

[Craig via Mercedes]

Well, transmission fluid, actually:

What transmission fluid is suitable for a 1990 300D/2.5 Turbo?


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] An oil question

[LarryT via Mercedes]

If you like M1 (it used to be the only oil I used), you'll like Amsoil 
even better IMO.  At least I do.


I am switching all I own over to Amsoil...

LarryT
The Oil Analysis Co.
Youroil.net

On 8/23/2014 1:20 AM, Craig via Mercedes wrote:

Is Mobil1 ATF suitable for the transmission in a 1995 E320?

Thanks,


Craig

--
Present:'95 E320Sebastian  127 kmi
 '82 240D/3.0Bluebell   267 kmi (need to fix leaking
 oil pressure gauge)
 '89 Chevrolet G20 Beauville Van (affectionately dubbed the BRV,
  Big Red Van)
Past:
 '94 E420Oskar  127 kmi
 '86 190E/2.3
 '72 220/8
 '64 190Dc   Emma
 '72 220D/8  Herman 186 kmi

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Re: [MBZ] An oil question

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

I've used Amsoil a little and its fine but I hate their marketing scheme. If I 
need M1 I can just go to the store.

That said in the Jetta I've been using CarQuest 5w40 synthetic. I sampled it at 
10k when I changed the oil and it showed fine. $22/gal and it shows the VW spec 
required for my car.

-Curt



 From: LarryT via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com 
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 1:53 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] An oil question
 

If you like M1 (it used to be the only oil I used), you'll like Amsoil 
even better IMO.  At least I do.

I am switching all I own over to Amsoil...

LarryT
The Oil Analysis Co.
Youroil.net

On 8/23/2014 1:20 AM, Craig via Mercedes wrote:
 Is Mobil1 ATF suitable for the transmission in a 1995 E320?

 Thanks,


 Craig

 --
 Present:'95 E320    Sebastian  127 kmi
          '82 240D/3.0    Bluebell   267 kmi (need to fix leaking
                                              oil pressure gauge)
          '89 Chevrolet G20 Beauville Van (affectionately dubbed the BRV,
                                           Big Red Van)
 Past:
          '94 E420        Oskar      127 kmi
          '86 190E/2.3
          '72 220/8
          '64 190Dc       Emma
          '72 220D/8      Herman     186 kmi

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Re: [MBZ] An oil question

[Rich Thomas via Mercedes]

i was at the FLAPS on Saturday and there was a guy in there, must have 
been some kind of sales rep or something, who was telling the counter 
monkeys that Royal Purple was on sale for 5.99 or 6.99 a quart, I forget 
which.  I've only seen that stuff hawked on one of those Sunday morning 
cable car shows.


--R


On 8/25/14 5:34 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:

I've used Amsoil a little and its fine but I hate their marketing scheme. If I 
need M1 I can just go to the store.

That said in the Jetta I've been using CarQuest 5w40 synthetic. I sampled it at 
10k when I changed the oil and it showed fine. $22/gal and it shows the VW spec 
required for my car.

-Curt



  From: LarryT via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 1:53 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] An oil question
  


If you like M1 (it used to be the only oil I used), you'll like Amsoil
even better IMO.  At least I do.

I am switching all I own over to Amsoil...





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Re: [MBZ] An oil question

[Archer75--- via Mercedes]

I bought an '83 300D beater with 180K miles in 2000 which had a like-new 
engine.  The previous owner had done little in the way of maintenance 
besides changing the oil and using Amsoil.  I started using Mobil 1 not 
long after I bought it, and now; 100+K miles later, it still runs like a 
new one; albeit somewhat noisier.  Just touch the starter and it fires 
right up.
I think it was Marshall who researched synthetic oils and found that 
they all buy the basic synthetic oil from Mobil and use their own 
choices of additives.

Is Amsoil better?
Since we still don't know if engines lasted longer using Pennsylvania 
dino oil (versus Texas or California dino oil), I doubt the question 
will ever be solved.  In the meantime the discussions fill in the 
blank spots in the Mercedes list.


Gerrywho uses Mobil 1 from Walmart which was $22.xx per five quart 
jug last night.



On 8/25/2014 5:42 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes wrote:
i was at the FLAPS on Saturday and there was a guy in there, must have 
been some kind of sales rep or something, who was telling the counter 
monkeys that Royal Purple was on sale for 5.99 or 6.99 a quart, I 
forget which.  I've only seen that stuff hawked on one of those Sunday 
morning cable car shows.


--R


On 8/25/14 5:34 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:
I've used Amsoil a little and its fine but I hate their marketing 
scheme. If I need M1 I can just go to the store.


That said in the Jetta I've been using CarQuest 5w40 synthetic. I 
sampled it at 10k when I changed the oil and it showed fine. $22/gal 
and it shows the VW spec required for my car.


-Curt



  From: LarryT via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 1:53 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] An oil question

If you like M1 (it used to be the only oil I used), you'll like Amsoil
even better IMO.  At least I do.

I am switching all I own over to Amsoil...





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contributor.





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Re: [MBZ] An oil question

[Jaime Kopchinski via Mercedes]

I'm a big fan of Febi 08971 for my Mercedes 4 speed auto transmissions.
 But most say I'm crazy.

It was wonderful in my '95 E320.  Its wonderful in everything, actually.
 Even my 67 300SEL.

http://www.worldpac.com/tagged/FebiATF0897178971_0009899203.pdf

Jaime



On Sat, Aug 23, 2014 at 1:20 AM, Craig via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
wrote:

 Is Mobil1 ATF suitable for the transmission in a 1995 E320?

 Thanks,


 Craig

 --
 Present:'95 E320Sebastian  127 kmi
 '82 240D/3.0Bluebell   267 kmi (need to fix leaking
 oil pressure gauge)
 '89 Chevrolet G20 Beauville Van (affectionately dubbed the BRV,
  Big Red Van)
 Past:
 '94 E420Oskar  127 kmi
 '86 190E/2.3
 '72 220/8
 '64 190Dc   Emma
 '72 220D/8  Herman 186 kmi

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-- 
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http://www.jaimekop.com/
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Re: [MBZ] An oil question

[clay via Mercedes]

My newest star car is 2002, and I recall there being a big push in the early 00 
to get folks to only put M1 in the engine and trans.  Some whooey about sealed 
for life, but that it was good for the old cars too.  I found that it really is 
good for the old cars, as, even the manual four speed loved the stuff and 
shifted tighter after a few k on the clock.  The R107 has gotten much better 
using M1, with crisp, yet smooth gear changes instead of the delay and clunk 
from just three k on the juice.

The 300SE has a magic transmission with it, from the burnt out slush box it 
came with.   Swapped in a used with 109k in place of the dead 203k it came 
with.  M1 has it shifting almost like a new car.  

clay

On Aug 23, 2014, at 7:56 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes wrote:

 clay via Mercedes wrote:
 I used it with no issue in the e300d, or any other Benz from 1972-2002
 
 I thought the electronic five speeds from about 1997-up required the special 
 juice?
 Two years ago, when I bought the 1999 wagon, you could still get a case of 
 Shell 134 from Ryder Fleet for a lot less than M1 Dexron. Ryder seems to have 
 retired its Sprinters and quit stocking the stuff.
 
 Mitch.
 
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Re: [MBZ] An oil question

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

I use it in my '95 E300.  Over 20k miles there has been a gradual
improvement in shifting behavior, now more often than not the transmission
is finding the right gear.  Not nearly as dramatic as the improvement in my
'87 wagon, this transmission was shifting fairly well before I began using
the M1.

Max Dillon,
Charleston SC
 On Aug 23, 2014 12:20 AM, Craig via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
wrote:

 Is Mobil1 ATF suitable for the transmission in a 1995 E320?

 Thanks,


 Craig

 --
 Present:'95 E320Sebastian  127 kmi
 '82 240D/3.0Bluebell   267 kmi (need to fix leaking
 oil pressure gauge)
 '89 Chevrolet G20 Beauville Van (affectionately dubbed the BRV,
  Big Red Van)
 Past:
 '94 E420Oskar  127 kmi
 '86 190E/2.3
 '72 220/8
 '64 190Dc   Emma
 '72 220D/8  Herman 186 kmi

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Re: [MBZ] An oil question

[clay via Mercedes]

I used it with no issue in the e300d, or any other Benz from 1972-2002

clay

On Aug 22, 2014, at 10:20 PM, Craig via Mercedes wrote:

 Is Mobil1 ATF suitable for the transmission in a 1995 E320?
 
 Thanks,
 
 
 Craig
 
 --
 Present:'95 E320  Sebastian  127 kmi
'82 240D/3.0Bluebell   267 kmi (need to fix leaking
oil pressure gauge)
'89 Chevrolet G20 Beauville Van (affectionately dubbed the BRV,
 Big Red Van)
 Past:   
'94 E420Oskar  127 kmi
'86 190E/2.3
'72 220/8
'64 190Dc   Emma
'72 220D/8  Herman 186 kmi
 
 ___
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Re: [MBZ] An oil question

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

clay via Mercedes wrote:

I used it with no issue in the e300d, or any other Benz from 1972-2002


I thought the electronic five speeds from about 1997-up required the special 
juice?
Two years ago, when I bought the 1999 wagon, you could still get a case of Shell 
134 from Ryder Fleet for a lot less than M1 Dexron. Ryder seems to have retired 
its Sprinters and quit stocking the stuff.


Mitch.

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[MBZ] An oil question

[Craig via Mercedes]

Is Mobil1 ATF suitable for the transmission in a 1995 E320?

Thanks,


Craig

--
Present:'95 E320Sebastian  127 kmi
'82 240D/3.0Bluebell   267 kmi (need to fix leaking
oil pressure gauge)
'89 Chevrolet G20 Beauville Van (affectionately dubbed the BRV,
 Big Red Van)
Past:   
'94 E420Oskar  127 kmi
'86 190E/2.3
'72 220/8
'64 190Dc   Emma
'72 220D/8  Herman 186 kmi

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[MBZ] an oil question Jaime can probably answer

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

Time for another oil change in the GL.  Last time I used the M1 ESP 
Formula M.  I found another 229.51 oil Total Quartz something or other 
for slightly less.  Is one better than the other?


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Re: [MBZ] an oil question Jaime can probably answer

[OK Don]

You have to ask? If the answer isn't 47, then it's M1.

If Total Quartz is from Total, the French oil company, I would not even
consider it vs. M1. Is it worth the slightly less when it's going into
that glorious GL???


On Sat, Jan 11, 2014 at 5:05 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.netwrote:

 Time for another oil change in the GL.  Last time I used the M1 ESP
 Formula M.  I found another 229.51 oil Total Quartz something or other for
 slightly less.  Is one better than the other?





-- 
OK Don
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin 1775
in this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes.
- Benjamin Franklin 1789
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] an oil question Jaime can probably answer

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

Just never heard of it but figured somebody might.

On 1/11/2014 6:08 PM, OK Don wrote:

You have to ask? If the answer isn't 47, then it's M1.

If Total Quartz is from Total, the French oil company, I would not even
consider it vs. M1. Is it worth the slightly less when it's going into
that glorious GL???


On Sat, Jan 11, 2014 at 5:05 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.netwrote:


Time for another oil change in the GL.  Last time I used the M1 ESP
Formula M.  I found another 229.51 oil Total Quartz something or other for
slightly less.  Is one better than the other?








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Re: [MBZ] an oil question Jaime can probably answer

[Jaime Kopchinski]

If it meets the spec, then its ok.  Better than Mobil One?  Maybe not... i
really couldnt tell you.


On Sat, Jan 11, 2014 at 6:05 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.netwrote:

 Time for another oil change in the GL.  Last time I used the M1 ESP
 Formula M.  I found another 229.51 oil Total Quartz something or other for
 slightly less.  Is one better than the other?

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Re: [MBZ] an oil question Jaime can probably answer

[Gary Hurst]

why would anyone think you'd know such a thing?


On Sat, Jan 11, 2014 at 10:34 PM, Jaime Kopchinski jaime...@gmail.comwrote:

 If it meets the spec, then its ok.  Better than Mobil One?  Maybe not... i
 really couldnt tell you.


 On Sat, Jan 11, 2014 at 6:05 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.net
 wrote:

  Time for another oil change in the GL.  Last time I used the M1 ESP
  Formula M.  I found another 229.51 oil Total Quartz something or other
 for
  slightly less.  Is one better than the other?
 
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*www.BuyEUROparts.com http://www.BuyEUROparts.com*
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Re: [MBZ] an oil question Jaime cannot probably answer 100%

[Hendrik and Fay]

How much slightly less $$?
Not worth changing oil brands for a few dollars, especially if that 
engine has been using M1 since day one, it has been known that an engine 
all of a sudden starts using oil just because it's fed another oil.
Even though that cheaper oil meets specs, does not mean it is the same 
as M1.


Hendrik
who does not use synthetic engine oil

On 12/01/14 14:04, Jaime Kopchinski wrote:

If it meets the spec, then its ok.  Better than Mobil One?  Maybe not... i
really couldnt tell you.


On Sat, Jan 11, 2014 at 6:05 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.netwrote:


Time for another oil change in the GL.  Last time I used the M1 ESP
Formula M.  I found another 229.51 oil Total Quartz something or other for
slightly less.  Is one better than the other?






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Re: [MBZ] an oil question Jaime can probably answer

[dseretakis]

Cuz Jaime has special MB connections.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 11, 2014, at 10:40 PM, Gary Hurst jabbahur...@gmail.com wrote:

 why would anyone think you'd know such a thing?
 
 
 On Sat, Jan 11, 2014 at 10:34 PM, Jaime Kopchinski jaime...@gmail.comwrote:
 
 If it meets the spec, then its ok.  Better than Mobil One?  Maybe not... i
 really couldnt tell you.
 
 
 On Sat, Jan 11, 2014 at 6:05 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.net
 wrote:
 
 Time for another oil change in the GL.  Last time I used the M1 ESP
 Formula M.  I found another 229.51 oil Total Quartz something or other
 for
 slightly less.  Is one better than the other?
 
 ___
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 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
 
 
 
 --
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 http://www.jaimekop.com/
 ___
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 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] an oil question Jaime can probably answer

[Gary Hurst]

that make him an expert on motor oil around the world?

there is something seriously crackheaded in this logic.  no?


On Sat, Jan 11, 2014 at 11:04 PM, dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote:

 Cuz Jaime has special MB connections.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Jan 11, 2014, at 10:40 PM, Gary Hurst jabbahur...@gmail.com wrote:

  why would anyone think you'd know such a thing?
 
 
  On Sat, Jan 11, 2014 at 10:34 PM, Jaime Kopchinski jaime...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
  If it meets the spec, then its ok.  Better than Mobil One?  Maybe
 not... i
  really couldnt tell you.
 
 
  On Sat, Jan 11, 2014 at 6:05 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.net
  wrote:
 
  Time for another oil change in the GL.  Last time I used the M1 ESP
  Formula M.  I found another 229.51 oil Total Quartz something or other
  for
  slightly less.  Is one better than the other?
 
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Re: [MBZ] an oil question Jaime can probably answer

[Mitch Haley]

Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:

Just never heard of it but figured somebody might.



Bob the Oil Guy?
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflatNumber=2819875

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Re: [MBZ] an oil question Jaime can probably answer

[OK Don]

Wow! And we thought we had oil threads! I don't know what most of them are
talking about (and don't want to find out).


On Sat, Jan 11, 2014 at 10:39 PM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote:



 Bob the Oil Guy?
 http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=
 showflatNumber=2819875





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They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
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- Benjamin Franklin 1789
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Re: [MBZ] an oil question Jaime can probably answer

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

Will stick to what I was using but was curious.

Sent from my iPhone

 On Jan 11, 2014, at 9:34 PM, Jaime Kopchinski jaime...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 If it meets the spec, then its ok.  Better than Mobil One?  Maybe not... i
 really couldnt tell you.
 
 
 On Sat, Jan 11, 2014 at 6:05 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.netwrote:
 
 Time for another oil change in the GL.  Last time I used the M1 ESP
 Formula M.  I found another 229.51 oil Total Quartz something or other for
 slightly less.  Is one better than the other?
 
 ___
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 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
 
 
 
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Re: [MBZ] Diesel oil question

[Tim C]

On Dec 22, 2012 9:51 PM, OK Don okd...@gmail.com wrote:

 only ran one analysis on M1 from a 617.962 engine, with similar results.

Wait, what?  I thought the consensus was that you couldn't get extended
change intervals on the 61xs because of carbon?

Thanks,
Tim
Not trolling
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Re: [MBZ] Diesel oil question

[Mitch Haley]

Tim C wrote:

On Dec 22, 2012 9:51 PM, OK Don okd...@gmail.com wrote:

only ran one analysis on M1 from a 617.962 engine, with similar results.


Wait, what?  I thought the consensus was that you couldn't get extended
change intervals on the 61xs because of carbon?



Seems like Marshall quoted a maximum soot level provided by MBZ or Mobil Oil, 
and then said he liked to change at a lower level. Maybe Larry Turner remembers 
the details?


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Diesel oil question

[Mitch Haley]

Mitch Haley wrote:

Seems like Marshall quoted a maximum soot level provided by MBZ or Mobil 
Oil, and then said he liked to change at a lower level. Maybe Larry 
Turner remembers the details?


In other words, I think the advise was not to extend without testing to know how 
fast your particular engine built up soot in the oil, and if you tested, to 
change at the mileage where your oil soot level hit x%.

(1.5%? 2%? I don't remember any more)

Mitch

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Re: [MBZ] Diesel oil question

[OK Don]

Exactly - each driver/engine is going to be different - you have to analyze
the oil to see what will work for you. There are no blanket rules.

On Sun, Dec 23, 2012 at 7:12 AM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote:

 Mitch Haley wrote:

  Seems like Marshall quoted a maximum soot level provided by MBZ or Mobil
 Oil, and then said he liked to change at a lower level. Maybe Larry Turner
 remembers the details?


 In other words, I think the advise was not to extend without testing to
 know how fast your particular engine built up soot in the oil, and if you
 tested, to change at the mileage where your oil soot level hit x%.
 (1.5%? 2%? I don't remember any more)

 Mitch


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Re: [MBZ] Diesel oil question

[Brian Toscano]

2% was the generally accepted soot limit back in the CG-4 days.

Semis and other trucks/engine combinations are engineered differently than
cars.

The new pick up truck diesels take about 2-1/2 gallons.  The older ones
were closer to 3 gallons.  My Cummins B5.9's were designed to run 300,000
miles and everything that could be made out of metal was.  No plastic
clips.  Timing gears.  A starter was was probably 30 HP for an engine that
weighed about 900 pounds with the flywheel.

Semi OTR engines take somewhere around 10 gallons of oil and may get
100,000 miles a year.  They may have dual batteries for 24V starters.  It
takes quite a bit to spin over a 12-18L diesel engine.  The exact size of
the engine and load depends on what the truck is hauling and where.  The
needs for driving in NYC, across I-80, or the Eastern Kentucky coal mines
can vary.




On Sun, Dec 23, 2012 at 7:07 AM, OK Don okd...@gmail.com wrote:

 Exactly - each driver/engine is going to be different - you have to analyze
 the oil to see what will work for you. There are no blanket rules.

 On Sun, Dec 23, 2012 at 7:12 AM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote:

  Mitch Haley wrote:
 
   Seems like Marshall quoted a maximum soot level provided by MBZ or Mobil
  Oil, and then said he liked to change at a lower level. Maybe Larry
 Turner
  remembers the details?
 
 
  In other words, I think the advise was not to extend without testing to
  know how fast your particular engine built up soot in the oil, and if you
  tested, to change at the mileage where your oil soot level hit x%.
  (1.5%? 2%? I don't remember any more)
 
  Mitch
 
 
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[MBZ] Diesel oil question

[W140]

Is Moble 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5w-40 an apprived oil for the 3.5 ltr Diesel in 
the W140 (1992) or does it require 15w40?Or are both approved?
Walt Lasher   
Seattle
1992 W140 S350
 


 

Woman is 57 But Looks 27
Mom publishes simple facelift trick that angered doctors...
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/50d5eb6e7be516b6e1117st04vuc
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Re: [MBZ] Diesel oil question

[Mitch Haley]

W140 wrote:

Is Moble 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5w-40 an apprived oil for the 3.5 ltr Diesel in 
the W140 (1992) or does it require 15w40?Or are both approved?
Walt Lasher   
Seattle

1992 W140 S350


Both should be approved.

5W40 TDT, AKA 5W40 Delvac 1, is probably the best stuff Mobil markets for an 
OM603 engine.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Diesel oil question

[WILTON]

That's what I've been using, anyway.

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: W140 w...@juno.com

To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 12:17 PM
Subject: [MBZ] Diesel oil question




Is Moble 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5w-40 an apprived oil for the 3.5 ltr Diesel 
in the W140 (1992) or does it require 15w40?Or are both approved?

Walt Lasher
Seattle
1992 W140 S350





Woman is 57 But Looks 27
Mom publishes simple facelift trick that angered doctors...
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/50d5eb6e7be516b6e1117st04vuc
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Re: [MBZ] Diesel oil question

[Hendrik and fay]

Oils should have their MB approval number on the bottle or at least on 
the web.
Personally I favour 15w40 oil changed at 10k kmhs. Modern mineral oils 
are a lot better than they used to be and M1 is a waste of money in an 
older engine not really designed for it. For instance I use this stuff 
http://www.oilman.com.au/diesel-oils/masterlube-550-15w40-ci-4sl/ which 
cost me AU$4.75/litre and it has Daimler approval 228.3 and 229.1, M1 
turbo Diesel does not have an MB number 
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_Turbo_Diesel_Truck_5W-40.aspx# 
however M1 petrol has MB 229.3 and 229.5. Far as I know the number after 
the dot is the specifics for oil drain interval.

According to wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_oil
This should be not surprising as Mercedes was among the first to 
differentiate oils according to longevity (1980s to 1990). In personal 
vehicles is a general oil change interval given by oil specification: 
228.1 – 15000 km, 228.3 – 3 km, 228.5 – 45000 km. (Similar rule 
applies to the MB 229.xx) Oil certified for the longest change interval 
also had the best antioxidative properties and stability.
After 10k kmhs the oil in my M103 engine still looks good and I could 
probably let it go to 15k but spending 50 bucks on fresh oil and filter 
is not a big drama.


You got to consider that heavy truck operators don't use M1 and they do 
the numbers very carefully, insofar as cost of oils versus engine life 
expectancy.


Also I think we are starting to see sludged up engines running M1 with 
extended rain intervals. The problem being that short trip driving is 
breaking down the oil, whilst the geniuses that came up with extended 
rain intervals assumed a mix of long and short trips.


Hendrik
who should not be feeding the oil trolls

On 23/12/12 03:46, Mitch Haley wrote:

W140 wrote:
Is Moble 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5w-40 an apprived oil for the 3.5 ltr 
Diesel in the W140 (1992) or does it require 15w40? Or are both 
approved?

Walt Lasher Seattle
1992 W140 S350


Both should be approved.

5W40 TDT, AKA 5W40 Delvac 1, is probably the best stuff Mobil markets 
for an OM603 engine.


Mitch.




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Re: [MBZ] Diesel oil question

[Michael Canfield]

Oil trolls are the worst kind.

Mike
On Dec 22, 2012 8:48 PM, Hendrik and fay heni...@gmail.com wrote:

 Oils should have their MB approval number on the bottle or at least on the
 web.
 Personally I favour 15w40 oil changed at 10k kmhs. Modern mineral oils are
 a lot better than they used to be and M1 is a waste of money in an older
 engine not really designed for it. For instance I use this stuff
 http://www.oilman.com.au/**diesel-oils/masterlube-550-**15w40-ci-4sl/http://www.oilman.com.au/diesel-oils/masterlube-550-15w40-ci-4sl/which
  cost me AU$4.75/litre and it has Daimler approval 228.3 and 229.1, M1
 turbo Diesel does not have an MB number http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-**
 English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_**Turbo_Diesel_Truck_5W-40.aspx#http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_Turbo_Diesel_Truck_5W-40.aspx#however
  M1 petrol has MB 229.3 and 229.5. Far as I know the number after
 the dot is the specifics for oil drain interval.
 According to wikipedia 
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Motor_oilhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_oil
 This should be not surprising as Mercedes was among the first to
 differentiate oils according to longevity (1980s to 1990). In personal
 vehicles is a general oil change interval given by oil specification: 228.1
 – 15000 km, 228.3 – 3 km, 228.5 – 45000 km. (Similar rule applies to
 the MB 229.xx) Oil certified for the longest change interval also had the
 best antioxidative properties and stability.
 After 10k kmhs the oil in my M103 engine still looks good and I could
 probably let it go to 15k but spending 50 bucks on fresh oil and filter is
 not a big drama.

 You got to consider that heavy truck operators don't use M1 and they do
 the numbers very carefully, insofar as cost of oils versus engine life
 expectancy.

 Also I think we are starting to see sludged up engines running M1 with
 extended rain intervals. The problem being that short trip driving is
 breaking down the oil, whilst the geniuses that came up with extended rain
 intervals assumed a mix of long and short trips.

 Hendrik
 who should not be feeding the oil trolls

 On 23/12/12 03:46, Mitch Haley wrote:

 W140 wrote:

 Is Moble 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5w-40 an apprived oil for the 3.5 ltr
 Diesel in the W140 (1992) or does it require 15w40? Or are both approved?
 Walt Lasher Seattle
 1992 W140 S350


 Both should be approved.

 5W40 TDT, AKA 5W40 Delvac 1, is probably the best stuff Mobil markets for
 an OM603 engine.

 Mitch.



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Re: [MBZ] Diesel oil question

[OK Don]

Taking the bait --
The late Doctor Booth claimed greatly extended timing chain life with M1,
determined by measuring the reduced chain stretch. I would not recommend
extending the change interval without oil analysis to quantify the
condition of the oil. With analysis, I determined that at 12,000 miles the
M1 oil had another 25% of life left when run in the 602 and 603 engines. I
only ran one analysis on M1 from a 617.962 engine, with similar results.

On Sat, Dec 22, 2012 at 7:47 PM, Hendrik and fay heni...@gmail.com wrote:

 Also I think we are starting to see sludged up engines running M1 with
 extended rain intervals. The problem being that short trip driving is
 breaking down the oil, whilst the geniuses that came up with extended rain
 intervals assumed a mix of long and short trips.

 Hendrik
 who should not be feeding the oil trolls






-- 
OK Don
2001 ML320
2012 Passat TDI DSG
1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager
1957 C182A
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[MBZ] 'Nother oil question

[WILTON]

OK, I WAS gonna ask a question about what oil to use to lube squealing hot 
water circulating pump on my home heating system, but I decided to just do it 
and then let y'all tell me what I shoulda done.  ;)))  'Had readily available: 
 an open jug of M1 10W-40 and a new, sealed quart of M1 ATF.  Which one do you 
think I used and why?

Wilton  
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Re: [MBZ] 'Nother oil question

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

I think you used the oil because it was already opened

On 1/9/2011 10:04 AM, WILTON wrote:

OK, I WAS gonna ask a question about what oil to use to lube squealing hot water 
circulating pump on my home heating system, but I decided to just do it and then 
let y'all tell me what I shoulda done.  ;)))  'Had readily available:  an open 
jug of M1 10W-40 and a new, sealed quart of M1 ATF.  Which one do you think I used 
and why?

Wilton
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-
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1191 / Virus Database: 1435/3369 - Release Date: 01/09/11




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 95 E300, 94 S500, 92 500SEL, 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic,
 91 350SDL, 91 300D, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro,
 85 190D, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 76 240D, 76 300D,
http://www.okiebenz.com


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Re: [MBZ] 'Nother oil question

[Jim Cathey]

an open jug of M1 10W-40 and a new, sealed quart of M1 ATF.  Which one 
do you think I used and why?


The 10W40 was already open.

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] 'Nother oil question

[WILTON]

'Zackly!  ;)))

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.net

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 11:06 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 'Nother oil question



I think you used the oil because it was already opened

On 1/9/2011 10:04 AM, WILTON wrote:
OK, I WAS gonna ask a question about what oil to use to lube squealing 
hot water circulating pump on my home heating system, but I decided to 
just do it and then let y'all tell me what I shoulda done.  ;)))  'Had 
readily available:  an open jug of M1 10W-40 and a new, sealed quart of 
M1 ATF.  Which one do you think I used and why?


Wilton
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-
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1191 / Virus Database: 1435/3369 - Release Date: 01/09/11




--
Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK
 95 E300, 94 S500, 92 500SEL, 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic,
 91 350SDL, 91 300D, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro,
 85 190D, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 76 240D, 76 300D,
http://www.okiebenz.com


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Re: [MBZ] 'Nother oil question

[WILTON]

'Zackly!   ;)))

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: Jim Cathey j...@windwireless.net

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 11:29 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 'Nother oil question


an open jug of M1 10W-40 and a new, sealed quart of M1 ATF.  Which one 
do you think I used and why?


The 10W40 was already open.

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] 'Nother oil question

[Bob Rentfro]

If you had GONE to the M1 webpage, you'd see the HOT H2O recirc pump
REQUIRES nothing less then WHICHEVER OIL is currently OPEN in your garage.
The LUBRICITY of each is directly proportional to the TEMPERATURE of the
garage or basement and the ENTHALPY of the H2O being pumped.

Marshall A. Booth
Mercedes Fate Director
Herr Diesel Doktor, auf Himmel
On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 9:46 AM, WILTON wilt...@nc.rr.com wrote:

 'Zackly!  ;)))

 Wilton

 - Original Message - From: Kaleb C. Striplin ka...@striplin.net
 
 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
 Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 11:06 AM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] 'Nother oil question


  I think you used the oil because it was already opened

 On 1/9/2011 10:04 AM, WILTON wrote:

  OK, I WAS gonna ask a question about what oil to use to lube squealing
 hot water circulating pump on my home heating system, but I decided to just
 do it and then let y'all tell me what I shoulda done.  ;)))  'Had readily
 available:  an open jug of M1 10W-40 and a new, sealed quart of M1 ATF.
  Which one do you think I used and why?

 Wilton
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 Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK
  95 E300, 94 S500, 92 500SEL, 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic,
  91 350SDL, 91 300D, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro,
  85 190D, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 76 240D, 76 300D,
 http://www.okiebenz.com


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