Hi,
I am currently working my way slowly through the Scottish Cardiac dataset,
converting it to archetypes as proof-of-concept, using the OE editor.
Term binding (to SNOMED) will be a crucial aspect from our perspective,
especially binding local (interface) terms to SNOMED concepts.
This
Hi William,
The ADL 1.4 ontology section already handles multiple terminologies,
versioning is mentioned (against each binding) in the source for the
archetype editor as being required but I cannot see anything about this in
the OpenEHR reference material. The terminologies (and official Name
as this will be different in different languages.
Sam
Ian McNicoll wrote:
Hi,
I am currently working my way slowly through the Scottish Cardiac dataset,
converting it to archetypes as proof-of-concept, using the OE editor.
Term binding (to SNOMED) will be a crucial aspect from our
/18, Ian McNicoll ian at gpacc.co.uk:
Hi Sam,
I appreciate the language difficulty here, given the ontology separation
in ADL. However, in the UK context, the ability to document bindings to
Snomed-CT with clear documentation, thereof, will be crucial to promoting
OpenEHR. The design philosophy
of work?
Dr Ian McNicoll
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did
not help.
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This did make me wonder if it is always appropriate to create a detailed
archetype for this kind of biomedical data, or should it perhaps simply be
stored/referenced as a blob or link.
Regards,
Ian
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From: Gerard
archetypes.
Dr Ian McNicoll
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2008/12/1 Thomas Beale
Same patten less the dots should be ok then?
e.g. sechalmersMUKOS::
Ian
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supported for Editor?
I don' think this is possible you might be best just to take screenshots to jpg
I use MWSnap freeware
http://www.mirekw.com/winfreeware/mwsnap.html
Dr Ian McNicoll
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Ian McNicoll
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2008/7/15 Thomas Beale thomas.beale
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tools and engines.
So we need to keep the balance between freedom and structure, recognising
(as Ian McNicoll says) that good archetypes take the problem out of the
technical space to where it becomes a human (and potentially soluble) issue.
Cheers, Sam
-- private --
Gerard Freriks, MD
a little more of what you mean by temporal data
management of hierarchical medical data to help us give better
advice.
Ian
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Brilliant.. very funny
Here is the original 'official' video
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=YJxTznwRzs4feature=related
It seems to be the same set of actors.. intruiging???
Dr Ian McNicoll
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On further reflection..
Either, CfH has a much better corporate sense of humour than most!!
or
The production of the first 'official' video is equally part of an
elaborate spoof, the real message being conveyed by the
'behind-the-scenes' clip.
Ian
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a particular variety of mobility assessment, via
further template level constraint, adjusting their internal processes
to match but this is a social/organisational commitment, requiring no
change in the technical representation on the archetype.
Ian
Dr Ian McNicoll
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2008/6/25 Tim Cook timothywayne.cook
to a
higher layer.
A further discussion of the possible requirements for supra-Template
UI rendering would be very helpful.
Ian
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form components to
be resized and moved.
Josina - I think it would be a mistake to try to cram in the separate
UI requirements to the template designer,. I think there is a place
for a specific UI demo tool that lets users and developers investigate
appropriate UI options.
Ian
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which
is constant.
Thanks for the quick replies.
Timmy
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 11:35 AM, Ian McNicoll ian at mcmi.co.uk wrote:
Hi Timmy,
Can you explain the domain model in a little more detail?
Ian
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 9:58 AM, TimmyX TimmyX at gmail.com wrote
domain in
capturing further UI requirements and rules. The Clinical Templates work has
more of a focus on generic infomation standards capture, rather than
specific local data-entry but there is considerable cross-over.
Regards,
Ian
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binding, constraints
http://www.openehr.org/releases/1.0.1/architecture/rm/data_types_im.pdf
Cheers,
Ian
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BCS
will accept
attachments - if not you can email me directly.
Ian
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with a
locally defined terminolgy like yours, rather than a terminology formally
registered with UMLS.
Ian
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lesion?
Ian
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2008/11/26 Olof Torgersson
that the latter is slightly
tidier from a human readability perspective.
Do you have a particular use case in mind?
Regards,
Ian
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and Demographics
models makes perfect sense in the context of a pure openEHR
implementation, but we may have to explore the possibility of being
able to show some aspects of the Demographics model within an
archetype tree, to cope with legacy PAS and design-only contexts of
openEHR use.
Ian
Dr Ian McNicoll
, manufacturer's
requirements, servicing records, scheduling etc but as ever, it is
question of resources.It is going to be hard enough to model the
clinical record requirements without taking on this extra work.
Ian
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model
which is clinically important but not archetypeable e.g Date
performed in the ACTION class, but which is important for clinicians
to see. It could also be used to allow assertions to be made visible
and editable within correct clinical context.
Ian
Dr Ian McNicoll
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solutions to his query and let anyone who fancies a bit of a
philosophical battle to indulge over in openEHR-clinical.
Regards,
Ian
Dr Ian McNicoll
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Central Europe (and beer) sounds a good match to me :-)
Certainly Amsterdam would be good from the perspective of easy transport.
Ian
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Clinical
and I can hand over
to you when I run out - nice sort of chain invitation process ;-)
Ian
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.
Thanks to all,
Ian
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solution but it gives some estimation of the RM version that the author was
working against when designing the archetype. The archetype tools could
automatically record the RM version whenever an archetype lifecyle
transitions to published or has its version/revision updated.
Ian
Dr Ian McNicoll
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Down for me too in the UK.
It is sometimes down for maintenance at weekends.
Ian
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in USA. Is it me only, or is the site down?
Kind Regards
Seref
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questionnaires are horrible but they are a reality in modern
clinical recording practice which we have to deal with. I think in future
years we will find ways to automate the process a little better.
Ian
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ian
, and in different slots within
the same parent archetype: this reflects different relationships of specimen
descriptions to the lab_test result - sometimes the specimen relates to the
whole test and sometimes to a partial sun-result.
Ian
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to the correct
local data type. This allows us to minimise the number of archetypes and
give a consistent path to the Result node, which is important for querying
purposes.
Ian
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Clinical
reporting of breast cancer.
Ian
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2009/6/3 Tim Cook
Hi William,
The current version of the archetype editor does not support
Demographics archetypes. These archetypes were created manually in raw
Adl. I am working on an update to the Editor to support Demographics
archetypes but this is still some weeks away from completion.
Ian
Dr Ian
.)
Cheers,
Ian
Ian
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2009/3/20 Bert Verhees bert.verhees
of the observation,
but it can sometimes seem awkward when creating models. In my experience, it
is usually straightforward to work around the restriction by refactoring the
observation which requires to be nested, as a CLUSTER archetype.
Can you give a specific example?
Ian
Dr Ian McNicoll
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not convey any
querying semantics, they are there purely to assist human navigation.
Ian
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On 29 May 2009, at 15:56, Pariya Kashfi hajar.kashfi at chalmers.se wrote:
Hi Ian,Thanks
' of the archetypes
we cannot be certain that they are 'fit to publish'.
Thanks for your interest and potential input. We appreciate that everyone's
time is at a premium but any feedback you can give will be most welcome.
Regards,
Ian
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at a very early stage so that overlapping and
contradictory models/requirements can be rationalised before different
groups have invested too much time and energy.
Share early, share often.
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in the openEHR Demographics model archetypes
please feel free to get involved in the review process by adopting one or
more of the archetypes above.
Regards,
Ian
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not represent actual patient data but an abstract of ALL patients who might
fall within the guideline.
See http://www.hst.aau.dk/~ska/MIE2009/papers/MIE2009p0653.pdf
Hope this helps,
Ian
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, then this properly belongs in
the guideline/pathway space, rather than as ref ranges?
Ian
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repository.
Ian
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2009/10/26 pablo pazos pazospablo
of Cluster archetypes between the 2 models.
Does that help?
Ian
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message is too large for the email server.
I hope a lively debate will ensue :-)
Regards,
Ian
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,
at0027,
at0028]
}
}
...
Dr Ian McNicoll
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]/items[at0004]/value/value
= 140
Note too that, specialised archetypes also support the same mechanism
of filled lots, which allows compound archetypes to be defined i.e
with some pre-filled slots.
Ian
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of the slot for downstream users.
Ian
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Honorary Senior Research Associate, CHIME, University College London
Dr Ian McNicoll
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openEHR Archetype Editorial Group
).
=/
So, in principle, should we keep the operational template 'pure', and
if so, where is the cut-off and how do we integrate that pure template
layer with a GUI/messaging directive layer(s).
Ian
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other local template-based openEHR projects can
generate an operational template, since this not only gives a pivot
oint for GUI directives etc but makes it possible to switch back-end
persistence very easily.
Ian
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Thanks Pablo,
I was dealing with some monster requirements documents which were
perhaps atypical.
Ian
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openEHR Clinical
is pretty stable. The issues of extra
directives and extensions are important at this stage as arguably some
should be supported in the operational template, as I discussed above.
Ian
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into the enclosed scope of a single archetype.
Ian
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-defined forms, a common feature in many
applications. The other is in the area of requirements gathering and
prototyping, either for EHR aplication development or wider standards
development work.
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between a
parent concept and potential children which is independent of any GUI
representation. These, I believe, should be considered for inclusion
within archetypes/templates.
Ian
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.
Ian
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cannot be added to a template.
Ian
Dr Ian McNicoll
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I would definitely recommend Zotero - this is what I use to store and format
the references used in CKM. Mendeley looks very interesting, and perhaps
better suited for joint reference libraries, but they do recognise that it
is not as fully-featured as Zotero.
Ian
Dr Ian McNicoll
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as I think there will be some interest there as well.
Ian
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Hi David,
I agree. I think the default behaviour in AE would be switchable as per user
preference. i.e. save in adl 1.4 or 1.5. The file extensions will be
different in any case - .adls and .adlf.
Ian
Dr Ian McNicoll
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to publication.
Any contributions would be very much appreciated.
The links are
Address : http://www.openehr.org/knowledge/OKM.html#showArchetype_1013.1.484
Person Name:
http://www.openehr.org/knowledge/OKM.html#showArchetype_1013.1.477
Regards,
Ian
Dr Ian McNicoll
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blank, this would simply not
be recorded in openEHR data. If the field is mandatory, either the user is
forced to make some sort of entry or perhaps is allowed to select one of the
null values as you suggest.
Regards,
Ian
Dr Ian McNicoll
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the detailed clinical
content in a manageable and scalable fashion.
I think the openEHR approach to content definition has definite advantages.
Ian
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Final decision has not been taken but I am expecting to be there.
Ian
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to allow an empty comment.
I have copied ot the clinical list, as it would be interesting to get some
other feedback.
Ian
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approach.
Regards,
Ian
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Hi Leo,
No it works the other way round. All of the null flavours are automatically
available unless you specifically constrain them out.
Ian
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hope someone else
will pitch in to any further discussion.
Ian
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I would agree - this is clinically the safest and correct action.
Ian
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Hi Sheng,
A few of my comments below...
Ian
Dr Ian McNicoll
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ian at mcmi.co.uk
Clinical Analyst Ocean Informatics openEHR Archetype Editorial Group
Member BCS Primary Health Care
of 'metadata', as
far as I can tell , other than Refset name, this is almost wholly technical
in nature and clinical metadata elements e.g use, misuse, purpose, authoring
details are not defined - is this correct?
Ian
Dr Ian McNicoll
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activity but will probably
need somre clinical input as a sanity check.
We also need to think about these issues in relation to possible alignment
with IHTSDO e.g should we start to think about using SNOMED-like primary
technical representations.
Regards,
Ian
Dr Ian McNicoll
office / fax +44(0)141 560
to be the most common sort of redefinition, in
Templates, constrained down to 0..0. In comparison name and datatype
redefinitions will be comparatively rare.
So, I would prefer to keep the original rule for name and datatype
redefinitions but relax it for occurences.
Ian
Dr Ian McNicoll
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representation difficult in all cases.
Ian
Dr Ian McNicoll
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Clinical analyst,?Ocean Informatics
openEHR Clinical Knowledge Editor www.openehr.org/knowledge
Honorary Senior Research Associate
and support open source projects like yours and Koray's. There are
also some interesting discussion to be had about how to share the
archetype you have developed, or at least feed your ideas into broader
developments.
Would you mind re-posting in a different/new thread?
Ian
Dr Ian McNicoll
office / fax
or religiously married? By whose rules?
I think this is taking ontological purity into an unsustainable and
fruitless level of detail.
Ian
Dr Ian McNicoll
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Clinical analyst,?Ocean
with commercial offerings such as Mindmanager
but would need some work to 'componentise' as I understand things.
Heather Leslie and I make extensive use of Xmind in designing
archetypes and templates.
Ian
Dr Ian McNicoll
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-EVALUATION.genetic_diagnosis.v1.12,
org.openehr.ehr::openEHR-EHR-EVALUATION.diagnosis.v1.29,
org.openehr.ehr::openEHR-EHR-EVALUATION.problem.v2.4
Ian
Dr Ian McNicoll
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Clinical analyst
was sitting, or if the oxygen
level was not recorded in the ambient oxygen archetype, it would be
safe to assume that the patient was breathing air.
In practice, we have very few examples in the CKM archetypes to date,
where it is safe to make such clinical assumptions.
Ian
Dr Ian McNicoll
office
.
Ian
Dr Ian McNicoll
office +44 (0)1536 414994
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ian.mcnicoll at oceaninformatics.com
Clinical analyst, Ocean Informatics, UK
openEHR Clinical Knowledge Editor www.openehr.org/knowledge
Honorary Senior Research Associate, CHIME, UCL
that the agency with
current responsibility could be identified
current_publisher = ?se.skl.epj?
Thoughts would be welcome as I think we need to start making these (or
alternative) specifications formal to enable tooling and application support
to go ahead.
Ian
Dr Ian McNicoll
office +44 (0)1536 414994
Hi Diego,
Very interesting. Is any of the documentation available without paying a
small fortune?
Ian
Dr Ian McNicoll
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Clinical analyst, Ocean Informatics, UK
to archetypes to distinguish between
archetypes that are in early draft (like alpha code and therefore volatiile)
and those that are effectively Release candidates - would this be helpful.
Regards,
Ian
PS Enjoyed your Japanese presentation.
Dr Ian McNicoll
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and these are comparatively simple).
Any projects, including our own, that are using 'draft' archetypes must
accept that these are subject to change and have to be regarded as local
copies.
Ian
Dr Ian McNicoll
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calling first draft archetypes .v0 help to highlight their fragility?
Ian
Dr Ian McNicoll
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Clinical Modelling Consultant, Ocean
.
e.g. As alternatives
1. Use the pseudo-unit in the unit attribute, as a qualified real
2. Use a qualified real and keep the name of the unit in the element name
'LV function factor (m2/kg3/m)' or whatever.
Ian
Dr Ian McNicoll
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are not and can
have duplicates.
So is this a valid ordinal ? ordinal constraint?
Ian
Dr Ian McNicoll
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Clinical Modelling Consultant, Ocean Informatics, UK
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