Hi J-S,
On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 3:00 PM, Jean-Sébastien Guay
jean-sebastien.g...@cm-labs.com wrote:
Hi Robert,
Competing standards are a bad thing as it breaks interoperability and
divides the market place into targeting one or other, or both
standards.
I understand your points, but I
Jean-Sébastien Guay wrote:
Hi Jason,
Ever try DosBox ( http://dosbox.com/information.php?page=0 ) ?
Yes, of course, but running it on the real hardware is its own reward.
:-)
Of course, like I said, it depends on *why* you keep them around. Mind
you, I haven't thrown my
Hi JS,
On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 9:26 PM, Jean-Sébastien Guay
jean-sebastien.g...@cm-labs.com wrote:
OK, seems I understand the basics after all. So why are competing standards
a bad thing if they're inherent to the nature of open standards? Or
conversely, why are open standards so desirable if
Hi Jason,
Ever try DosBox ( http://dosbox.com/information.php?page=0 ) ?
Yes, of course, but running it on the real hardware is its own reward.
:-) Plus, I hate how nothing in DosBox really runs that well (even
something that ran well on a 486DX/33 has trouble in DosBox, and I have
to
Hi Robert,
Competing standards are a bad thing as it breaks interoperability and
divides the market place into targeting one or other, or both
standards.
I understand your points, but I don't see how that's different from any
market... I could give lots of examples of similar competition:
Hi JS,
On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 3:19 AM, Jean-Sébastien Guay
jean-sebastien.g...@cm-labs.com wrote:
Sure, I should have said is it ratified by the ISO or another international
standards body. Still, is OpenGL really a standard? A de-facto standard,
perhaps, as much as OSG is the de-facto
Hi Colin,
On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 10:19 AM, Middleton, Colin (GE EntSol,
Intelligent Platforms)
Interestingly the OpenGL driver for this chipset is far far better on
Linux than on Windows. I suspect the Open Source driver is responsible
for this.
This is a really interesting and encouraging
Robert Osfield wrote:
I would just love to get open source OpenGL drivers to a point that
they match the proprietary ones on all platforms, once you get to this
point there is no turning back, the open source development model will
just outpace the proprietary solutions in terms of features and
Hi Robert,
I just don't see us going anywhere with this discussion, we have
different points of view and discussing them doesn't do any good, so
let's just go back to writing great software and promoting OpenGL and
OSG as much as we can! Actions speak louder than words.
J-S
--
Hi Robert,
Interestingly the OpenGL driver for this chipset is far far better on
Linux than on Windows. I suspect the Open Source driver is responsible
for this.
This is a really interesting and encouraging finding. Makes me wonder
if an open source driver might be possible under WIndows as
Hi J-S,
I don't expect to win your over, but I sure want to correct things as
see as off target so that others in the community don't get the wrong
impression about stuff like OpenGL, etc.
Robert.
On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 6:20 PM, Jean-Sébastien Guay
jean-sebastien.g...@cm-labs.com wrote:
Hi
Hi Robert,
I don't expect to win your over, but I sure want to correct things as
see as off target so that others in the community don't get the wrong
impression about stuff like OpenGL, etc.
I'm still not convinced that OpenGL itself can be considered a
standard, but that's mostly
Jean-Sébastien Guay wrote:
Hi Robert,
I don't expect to win your over, but I sure want to correct things as
see as off target so that others in the community don't get the wrong
impression about stuff like OpenGL, etc.
I'm still not convinced that OpenGL itself can be considered a
Hi Paul,
I guess the rest of us spectators are just confused about what OpenGL
would have to do to become a standard using your metrics. Where is the
bar set and why are they not reaching it?
Yes, I guess that's where my confusion stems from too. I always thought
an actual standard had to
Hi Paul,
I don't quite understand how open standards work, and how they're
different from me just saying here's a document that defines something,
I hereby declare it standard. Where do you draw the line? I would have
thought the term standard carried more weight and couldn't be just used
by
Jean-Sébastien Guay wrote:
Hi Paul,
I don't quite understand how open standards work, and how they're
different from me just saying here's a document that defines
something, I hereby declare it standard. Where do you draw the line?
I would have thought the term standard carried more weight
Jean-Sébastien Guay wrote:
Yes, I guess that's where my confusion stems from too. I always thought
an actual standard had to be ratified by an independent standards body
(ANSI, ISO, CSA here in Canada, ...). In this view, a company or
consortium of companies could not unilaterally say that
Hi Paul,
Yes, if MS did that they would have a competing open standard. Though
none of us would probably care much since the earth would have shifted
off of its axis and hurtled into the sun. ;)
OK, aside from the joke (which I agree with, it was a far-fetched
hypothesis, but just to test
Hi Jason,
What standards body ratified TCP/IP? ;-)
Hmmm, getting even more off track here, but as far as I know TCP/IP is
not a standard (other than a de facto standard, which it certainly is).
It's defined by RFCs and not a standard. So it's ratified by no
standards body since it's not a
Jean-Sébastien Guay wrote:
Hi Jason,
What standards body ratified TCP/IP? ;-)
Hmmm, getting even more off track here, but as far as I know TCP/IP is
not a standard (other than a de facto standard, which it certainly is).
It's defined by RFCs and not a standard. So it's ratified by
Hypothetical situation: As I see it, if Microsoft decided to make a
standards committee for Direct3D and other companies joined, it would
be just as much a standard for graphics as OpenGL is. None of the two
would be able to say they're *the* standard for graphics unless some
independent
Hi Old Man Martz,
;-)
Sorry I keep taking us down memory lane, but I think it's important to look
at parallels with historical events.
Oh no, I find this really interesting. I got onto the 3D scene from a
gaming/demoscene background, on the PC in the early 90s. So I'm aware of
what
Jean-Sébastien Guay wrote:
Hi Old Man Martz,
;-)
Sorry I keep taking us down memory lane, but I think it's important to
look
at parallels with historical events.
Oh no, I find this really interesting. I got onto the 3D scene from a
gaming/demoscene background, on the PC in the early
Hi Jason,
Well, if I can't get you to call TCP/IP an open standard, I'm out of
ammo... ;-)
Oh yeah, sure, it is an open standard. I have seen the light :-)
(I still have some unanswered questions, but I'll do some reading and
not bore you with them since this mailing list is not the place
Hi Paul,
Just thought it was funny because just earlier today I was going through
another box and found my well turned, hand-printed, Glide manual. Was a
fun trip thumbing through that.
Heh, I had one of those too! :-)
And what's more, I actually have two nostalgia machines which I plug
Jean-Sébastien Guay wrote:
And what's more, I actually have two nostalgia machines which I plug
in once in a while. The first has a Cirrus Logic CL-GD5428 card (1MB,
yessir), and the other has a Voodoo2 12MB. I'll probably keep those till
I die, just because that was the time when it all
Jean-Sébastien Guay wrote:
Hi Paul,
Just thought it was funny because just earlier today I was going
through another box and found my well turned, hand-printed, Glide
manual. Was a fun trip thumbing through that.
Heh, I had one of those too! :-)
And what's more, I actually have two
Hi All,
At the end of last week I ask Jose-Luis about web stats, and the boy
came good, adding awstats to the new virtual server, it's only been
running since Sunday, so the logs are only a quick snapshot so far,
but still interesting no less.
First up the operating systems that people are
Nice to see this kind of results.
(I'm just a bit disapointed since I'm an Opera-conviced user ;p )
Sukender
PVLE - Lightweight cross-platform game engine - http://pvle.sourceforge.net/
Le Thu, 26 Feb 2009 11:06:51 +0100, Robert Osfield robert.osfi...@gmail.com a
écrit:
Hi All,
At the end
Hi Robert,
Anyone any ideas
about what platforms this Unknown are likely to be?
Well, some people disable the sending of OS information by their
browser, so it's possible that a number of those actually would fall
into the other categories (Linux, Windows etc.)
Perhaps this strong
Hi Robert,
as to the Firefox there exists a joke:
Why do you have MS Internet Explorer bundled with Windows?
In order to download Mozilla Firefox!
OK, I know I am getting off topic here, but I couldn't stop thinking on that
joke when reading your post ;)
cheers
--
Read this
Hi Robert,
A big extrapolation, but typically people will develop and browse
under the same platform.
But are people who go to the OSG site necessarily people who use OSG?
That's the extrapolation I was referring to.
Actually I think you're being a little tetchy. How is pointing
aspects
Hi J-S,
On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 4:07 PM, Jean-Sébastien Guay
jean-sebastien.g...@cm-labs.com wrote:
But are people who go to the OSG site necessarily people who use OSG? That's
the extrapolation I was referring to.
I would have thought there would be a reasonable correlation between
visitors
Hi Robert,
It's a tool for a job, making it into a war is useless.
I'm not trying to make war. I'm try to give perspective on what seems
to be happening in the OSG community and what that might mean more
widely.
But you have to realize that even you aren't 100% objective, no one is.
Your
HI J-S,
On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 6:11 PM, Jean-Sébastien Guay
jean-sebastien.g...@cm-labs.com wrote:
IMHO the situation with Windows users at large is less bleak than what you
make out, the recent situation with Vista coming in far below expectations
helped on that front. Non-tech people are
Hi Robert,
We are still a long way from having genuine choice about hardware and
software though. MS has a tremendously right grip on almost every PC
manufacturer save for Apple and the specialist Linux firms. The only
easy way of matching the hardware your want with the OS you want is
build
Hi J-S,
On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 7:35 PM, Jean-Sébastien Guay
jean-sebastien.g...@cm-labs.com wrote:
I don't agree with you on that. OpenGL is an API. Direct3D is an API.
They're not standards... If a video card manufacturer wants a good market
share in most areas, they'll support both and
Hi Robert,
Please go check out the the specs on OpenGL. It is a open standard.
It's up to vendors to create OpenGL drivers to this standard. It's
not an API like the OSG is an API, OpenGL is a standard with an
standardised API. It's a standard that is derived from a standards
body - this is
Indeed. I have heard of Linux users configuring browsers to act
report being other browsers, I presume other platform/browsers do the
same. I'm curious where this practice would be most common.
Using Opera, you can switch your browser identification in one or two clicks.
And you even can
HI JS,
On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 9:55 PM, Jean-Sébastien Guay
jean-sebastien.g...@cm-labs.com wrote:
Is OpenGL ratified by the ISO? No. So it's not a standard. The fact that
it's a spec made by a consortium doesn't mean it's a standard, because not
all companies are on that consortium and
Just a note: I've seen many users that seem too lazy to install alternatives
solutions (or ask for installation). Installing Firefox/Opera/Whaterver,
OpenOffice, FileZilla, or 7-zip (and others alternatives - sorry I don't have
them all in mind) seem to be as hard as moving a mountain for some
Hi Robert,
Lots of international standards aren't governed by ISO. ISO is just
another standards body, albeit the most broad reaching, ...
Sure, I should have said is it ratified by the ISO or another
international standards body. Still, is OpenGL really a standard? A
de-facto standard,
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