Re: [HACKERS] RFC: changing autovacuum_naptime semantics

2007-03-09 Thread Grzegorz Jaskiewicz
On Mar 9, 2007, at 6:42 AM, Tom Lane wrote: Alvaro Herrera [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Now regarding your restartable vacuum work. I think that stopping a vacuum at some point and being able to restart it later is very cool and may get you some hot chicks, but I'm not sure it's really

Re: [HACKERS] Auto creation of Partitions

2007-03-09 Thread Zeugswetter Andreas ADI SD
Since partition is inheritance-based, a simple DROP or NO INHERIT will do the job to deal with the partition. Do we want to reinvent additional syntax when these are around and are documented? Well, if the syntax for adding a new partition eventually ends up as ALTER TABLE ADD

Re: [HACKERS] Calculated view fields (8.1 != 8.2)

2007-03-09 Thread Gaetano Mendola
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Gaetano Mendola wrote: Tom Lane wrote: Gaetano Mendola [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [ 8.2 evaluates volatile functions in the targetlist of a view ] If I mark the function as STABLE or IMMUTABLE then even with version 8.2 the function is not

[HACKERS] A naive question about the Makefile

2007-03-09 Thread Cao Yu
Hi all, I am adding some new files into the system, so I wonder what I need to do to update the Makefiles? Is the system smart enough to recognize my new files and add corresponding entries into the Makefiles? Thanks. Regards Yu ---(end of

Re: [HACKERS] A naive question about the Makefile

2007-03-09 Thread Peter Eisentraut
Am Freitag, 9. März 2007 10:38 schrieb Cao Yu: Is the system smart enough to recognize my new files and add corresponding entries into the Makefiles? No, you need to add it yourself. Look for where the other files are listed. -- Peter Eisentraut http://developer.postgresql.org/~petere/

Re: [HACKERS] Auto creation of Partitions

2007-03-09 Thread Simon Riggs
On Fri, 2007-03-09 at 11:48 +0530, NikhilS wrote: Hi, On 3/9/07, Shane Ambler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Note to Nikhil: Make sure the new syntax doesn't prevent partitions from being placed upon multiple tablespaces in some manner, at CREATE

[HACKERS] CLUSTER and MVCC

2007-03-09 Thread Heikki Linnakangas
Is there a particular reason why CLUSTER isn't MVCC-safe? It seems to me that it would be trivial to fix, by using SnapshotAny instead of SnapshotNow, and not overwriting the xmin/xmax with the xid of the cluster command. I feel that I must missing something, or someone would've already fixed

Re: [HACKERS] [COMMITTERS] pgsql: Remove unsafe calling of WSAStartup and WSA Cleanup from DllMain.

2007-03-09 Thread Magnus Hagander
On Fri, Mar 09, 2007 at 08:16:12AM +, Dave Page wrote: Magnus Hagander wrote: For example, do you recall us being confused when we found we needed to call it in slon.exe? Eh, no, actually not. Sorry. Well, it was only a couple of years ago!! Seriously though, from what I recall that

Re: [HACKERS] Auto creation of Partitions

2007-03-09 Thread NikhilS
Hi, Why would we support HASH partitions? If you did, the full syntax for hash clusters should be supported. In MySQL, Oracle, the syntax for HASH partitions seems to be similar to the one mentioned. I do not know much about hash clusters though. If we do the CHECK clauses like that then

Re: [HACKERS] who gets paid for this

2007-03-09 Thread Andrew Dunstan
Tom Lane wrote: Even more to the point, getting paid for has almost nothing to do with has commit privileges. At least on this project. Darn. So the cheque isn't really in the mail? cheers andrew ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't

Re: [HACKERS] CLUSTER and MVCC

2007-03-09 Thread Csaba Nagy
On Fri, 2007-03-09 at 12:29, Heikki Linnakangas wrote: Csaba, you mentioned recently (http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-hackers/2007-03/msg00027.php) that you're actually using the MVCC-violation to clean up tables during a backup. Can you tell us a bit more about that? Would you be

Re: [HACKERS] CLUSTER and MVCC

2007-03-09 Thread Hannu Krosing
Ühel kenal päeval, R, 2007-03-09 kell 11:29, kirjutas Heikki Linnakangas: Is there a particular reason why CLUSTER isn't MVCC-safe? It seems to me that it would be trivial to fix, by using SnapshotAny instead of SnapshotNow, and not overwriting the xmin/xmax with the xid of the cluster

Re: [HACKERS] RFC: changing autovacuum_naptime semantics

2007-03-09 Thread Gregory Stark
Tom Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Er, why not just finish out the scan at the reduced I/O rate? Any sort of abort behavior is going to create net inefficiency, eg doing an index scan to remove only a few tuples. ISTM that the vacuum ought to just continue along its existing path at a

Re: [HACKERS] Auto creation of Partitions

2007-03-09 Thread Luke Lonergan
Simon, What happens to the data when the function is dropped or replaced? - Luke Msg is shrt cuz m on ma treo -Original Message- From: Simon Riggs [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 06:20 AM Eastern Standard Time To: NikhilS Cc: Shane Ambler; Luke

Re: [HACKERS] CLUSTER and MVCC

2007-03-09 Thread Gregory Stark
Csaba Nagy [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Wouldn't be possible to do it like Simon (IIRC) suggested, and add a parameter to enable/disable the current behavior, and use the MVCC behavior as default ? Doing it in CLUSTER would be weird. However perhaps it would be useful to have some sort of

Re: [HACKERS] RFC: changing autovacuum_naptime semantics

2007-03-09 Thread Alvaro Herrera
Gregory Stark wrote: Tom Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Er, why not just finish out the scan at the reduced I/O rate? Any sort of abort behavior is going to create net inefficiency, eg doing an index scan to remove only a few tuples. ISTM that the vacuum ought to just continue along

Re: [HACKERS] CLUSTER and MVCC

2007-03-09 Thread Csaba Nagy
On Fri, 2007-03-09 at 13:42, Gregory Stark wrote: Csaba Nagy [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Wouldn't be possible to do it like Simon (IIRC) suggested, and add a parameter to enable/disable the current behavior, and use the MVCC behavior as default ? Doing it in CLUSTER would be weird.

Re: [HACKERS] CLUSTER and MVCC

2007-03-09 Thread Heikki Linnakangas
Csaba Nagy wrote: On Fri, 2007-03-09 at 12:29, Heikki Linnakangas wrote: Csaba, you mentioned recently (http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-hackers/2007-03/msg00027.php) that you're actually using the MVCC-violation to clean up tables during a backup. Can you tell us a bit more about that?

Re: [HACKERS] CLUSTER and MVCC

2007-03-09 Thread Alvaro Herrera
Gregory Stark wrote: Csaba Nagy [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Wouldn't be possible to do it like Simon (IIRC) suggested, and add a parameter to enable/disable the current behavior, and use the MVCC behavior as default ? Doing it in CLUSTER would be weird. However perhaps it would be useful

Re: [HACKERS] CLUSTER and MVCC

2007-03-09 Thread Zeugswetter Andreas ADI SD
Is there a particular reason why CLUSTER isn't MVCC-safe? It seems to me that it would be trivial to fix, by using SnapshotAny instead of SnapshotNow, and not overwriting the xmin/xmax with the xid of the cluster command. It's trivial to fix now in this way, but it would break HOT,

Re: [HACKERS] CLUSTER and MVCC

2007-03-09 Thread Csaba Nagy
On Fri, 2007-03-09 at 14:00, Alvaro Herrera wrote: But I'm not really seeing the problem here. Why isn't Csaba's problem fixed by the fact that HOT reduces the number of dead tuples in the first place? If it does, then he no longer needs the CLUSTER workaround, or at least, he needs it to a

Re: [HACKERS] CLUSTER and MVCC

2007-03-09 Thread Csaba Nagy
Hmm. You could use something along these lines instead: 0. LOCK TABLE queue_table 1. SELECT * INTO queue_table_new FROM queue_table 2. DROP TABLE queue_table 3. ALTER TABLE queue_table_new RENAME queue_table After all, it's not that you care about the clustering of the table, you just

Re: [HACKERS] Log levels for checkpoint/bgwriter monitoring

2007-03-09 Thread Greg Smith
On Fri, 9 Mar 2007, ITAGAKI Takahiro wrote: Pinned means bufHdr-refcount 0 and you don't distinguish pinned or recently-used (bufHdr-usage_count 0) buffers in your patch. Thank you, I will revise the terminology used accordingly. I was using pinned as a shortcut for will be ignored by

Re: [HACKERS] Auto creation of Partitions

2007-03-09 Thread Simon Riggs
On Fri, 2007-03-09 at 07:40 -0500, Luke Lonergan wrote: What happens to the data when the function is dropped or replaced? Well, that wouldn't happen because you build in a dependency. I'm not working on this, so don't expect lots of detail. The idea is essentially to implement things the way

[HACKERS] Interaction of PITR backups and Bulk operations avoiding WAL

2007-03-09 Thread Simon Riggs
Reviewing earlier threads, I realised that there was a potential bug/loophole in PITR backups in conjunction with avoiding WAL for bulk operations. This would be rare, but should be fixed. http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-hackers/2006-05/msg01113.php Say you issue COPY, CREATE INDEX etc..

[HACKERS] Re: [COMMITTERS] pgsql: Remove unsafe calling of WSAStartup and WSA Cleanup from DllMain.

2007-03-09 Thread Dave Page
Magnus Hagander wrote: In which case it can simply be because I was building against a libpq built with MSVC = it had the broken startup code, and you used a mingw one, which didn't have it. Maybe - but it does imply it's potentially easy to break code with this change. Per the docs, an

Re: [HACKERS] Calculated view fields (8.1 != 8.2)

2007-03-09 Thread Martijn van Oosterhout
On Fri, Mar 09, 2007 at 10:59:56AM +0100, Gaetano Mendola wrote: Is really this what we want? I did a migration 8.0.x = 8.2.3 and I had on first hour of service up lot of queries blocked due to this, consider in my case I have on v_ta milions of records and usually that join extracts 1 row.

Re: [HACKERS] Estimating seq_page_fetch and random_page_fetch

2007-03-09 Thread Martijn van Oosterhout
On Thu, Mar 08, 2007 at 07:01:17PM -0500, Umar Farooq Minhas wrote: displayed, I want cpu cost and io cost displayed separated when i run EXPLAIN on a particular query. Till now I haven't been able to figure out a 'clean' way of doing this. Can anyone tell me how much time should I expect to

Re: [HACKERS] CLUSTER and MVCC

2007-03-09 Thread Heikki Linnakangas
Csaba Nagy wrote: On Fri, 2007-03-09 at 14:00, Alvaro Herrera wrote: But I'm not really seeing the problem here. Why isn't Csaba's problem fixed by the fact that HOT reduces the number of dead tuples in the first place? If it does, then he no longer needs the CLUSTER workaround, or at least,

Re: [HACKERS] Calculated view fields (8.1 != 8.2)

2007-03-09 Thread Tom Lane
Martijn van Oosterhout kleptog@svana.org writes: Most people figured it was a improvment. It's configured per function now, which wasn't the case before. I dont't think there was ever any discussion about having a global switch. Volatile functions that are not at the top level of a query are

Re: [HACKERS] Calculated view fields (8.1 != 8.2)

2007-03-09 Thread Florian G. Pflug
Martijn van Oosterhout wrote: On Fri, Mar 09, 2007 at 10:59:56AM +0100, Gaetano Mendola wrote: Is really this what we want? I did a migration 8.0.x = 8.2.3 and I had on first hour of service up lot of queries blocked due to this, consider in my case I have on v_ta milions of records and

Re: [HACKERS] CLUSTER and MVCC

2007-03-09 Thread Florian G. Pflug
Heikki Linnakangas wrote: Csaba Nagy wrote: On Fri, 2007-03-09 at 14:00, Alvaro Herrera wrote: But I'm not really seeing the problem here. Why isn't Csaba's problem fixed by the fact that HOT reduces the number of dead tuples in the first place? If it does, then he no longer needs the

Re: [HACKERS] Calculated view fields (8.1 != 8.2)

2007-03-09 Thread Gaetano Mendola
Martijn van Oosterhout wrote: On Fri, Mar 09, 2007 at 10:59:56AM +0100, Gaetano Mendola wrote: Is really this what we want? I did a migration 8.0.x = 8.2.3 and I had on first hour of service up lot of queries blocked due to this, consider in my case I have on v_ta milions of records and

Re: [HACKERS] CLUSTER and MVCC

2007-03-09 Thread Heikki Linnakangas
Csaba Nagy wrote: Hmm. You could use something along these lines instead: 0. LOCK TABLE queue_table 1. SELECT * INTO queue_table_new FROM queue_table 2. DROP TABLE queue_table 3. ALTER TABLE queue_table_new RENAME queue_table After all, it's not that you care about the clustering of the table,

Re: [HACKERS] CLUSTER and MVCC

2007-03-09 Thread Alvaro Herrera
Zeugswetter Andreas ADI SD wrote: Is there a particular reason why CLUSTER isn't MVCC-safe? It seems to me that it would be trivial to fix, by using SnapshotAny instead of SnapshotNow, and not overwriting the xmin/xmax with the xid of the cluster command. It's trivial to fix

Re: [HACKERS] CLUSTER and MVCC

2007-03-09 Thread Heikki Linnakangas
Florian G. Pflug wrote: Couldn't HOT in principle deal with this? Let's say you have two long-running transactions, which see row versions A and D. While those transactions are running, the row is constantly updated, leading to row versions B, C (before the second long-running transaction

Re: [HACKERS] CLUSTER and MVCC

2007-03-09 Thread Mike Rylander
On 3/9/07, Florian G. Pflug [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Heikki Linnakangas wrote: Csaba Nagy wrote: On Fri, 2007-03-09 at 14:00, Alvaro Herrera wrote: But I'm not really seeing the problem here. Why isn't Csaba's problem fixed by the fact that HOT reduces the number of dead tuples in the

Re: [HACKERS] CLUSTER and MVCC

2007-03-09 Thread Heikki Linnakangas
Mike Rylander wrote: On 3/9/07, Florian G. Pflug [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Couldn't HOT in principle deal with this? Let's say you have two long-running transactions, which see row versions A and D. While those transactions are running, the row is constantly updated, leading to row versions B,

Re: [HACKERS] Calculated view fields (8.1 != 8.2)

2007-03-09 Thread Florian G. Pflug
Gaetano Mendola wrote: Martijn van Oosterhout wrote: On Fri, Mar 09, 2007 at 10:59:56AM +0100, Gaetano Mendola wrote: Is really this what we want? I did a migration 8.0.x = 8.2.3 and I had on first hour of service up lot of queries blocked due to this, consider in my case I have on v_ta

Re: [HACKERS] CLUSTER and MVCC

2007-03-09 Thread Tom Lane
Heikki Linnakangas [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Is there a particular reason why CLUSTER isn't MVCC-safe? It seems to me that it would be trivial to fix, by using SnapshotAny instead of SnapshotNow, and not overwriting the xmin/xmax with the xid of the cluster command. The reason it's not

Re: [HACKERS] Re: [COMMITTERS] pgsql: Remove unsafe calling of WSAStartup and WSA Cleanup from DllMain.

2007-03-09 Thread Tom Lane
Dave Page [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Magnus Hagander wrote: Another question related to backpatching - should I backpatch this to 8.1 and 8.0 as well? I'm far from convinced it should be backpatched at all. I tend to agree with Dave --- I think this change needs to go through a beta-testing

Re: [HACKERS] who gets paid for this

2007-03-09 Thread Bruno Wolff III
On Thu, Mar 08, 2007 at 12:10:22 -0800, Christian Bird [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm a grad student at UC Davis studying the postgres community and I wanted to know if some on this list could help me out. I'm studying the factors that affect people graduating from being mailing list

Re: [HACKERS] CLUSTER and MVCC

2007-03-09 Thread Simon Riggs
On Fri, 2007-03-09 at 12:48 -0300, Alvaro Herrera wrote: Zeugswetter Andreas ADI SD wrote: Is there a particular reason why CLUSTER isn't MVCC-safe? It seems to me that it would be trivial to fix, by using SnapshotAny instead of SnapshotNow, and not overwriting the xmin/xmax

Re: [HACKERS] Interaction of PITR backups and Bulk operations avoiding WAL

2007-03-09 Thread Tom Lane
Simon Riggs [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Say you issue COPY, CREATE INDEX etc.. pg_start_backup() pg_stop_backup() ...then bulk operation ends. This will result in a base backup that does not contain the data written during the bulk operation and the changes aren't in WAL either. Uh, no. The

Re: [HACKERS] CLUSTER and MVCC

2007-03-09 Thread Heikki Linnakangas
Tom Lane wrote: Heikki Linnakangas [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Is there a particular reason why CLUSTER isn't MVCC-safe? It seems to me that it would be trivial to fix, by using SnapshotAny instead of SnapshotNow, and not overwriting the xmin/xmax with the xid of the cluster command. The

Re: [HACKERS] Interaction of PITR backups and Bulk operationsavoiding WAL

2007-03-09 Thread Simon Riggs
On Fri, 2007-03-09 at 11:15 -0500, Tom Lane wrote: Simon Riggs [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Say you issue COPY, CREATE INDEX etc.. pg_start_backup() pg_stop_backup() ...then bulk operation ends. This will result in a base backup that does not contain the data written during the bulk

Re: [HACKERS] CLUSTER and MVCC

2007-03-09 Thread Tom Lane
Heikki Linnakangas [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: We wouldn't clean up tuples that are visible to a transaction, but if you have one long-running transaction like pg_dump in a database with otherwise short transaction, you'll have a lot of tuples that are not vacuumable because of the

Re: [HACKERS] CLUSTER and MVCC

2007-03-09 Thread Heikki Linnakangas
Tom Lane wrote: Heikki Linnakangas [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: We wouldn't clean up tuples that are visible to a transaction, but if you have one long-running transaction like pg_dump in a database with otherwise short transaction, you'll have a lot of tuples that are not vacuumable because of

Re: [HACKERS] CLUSTER and MVCC

2007-03-09 Thread Florian G. Pflug
Heikki Linnakangas wrote: The implementation problem is that we don't have a global view of all snapshots in the system. If we solve that, we can be more aggressive with vacuuming in presence of long-running transactions. It's not an easy problem, we don't want to add a lot of accounting

Re: [HACKERS] Interaction of PITR backups and Bulk operationsavoiding WAL

2007-03-09 Thread Tom Lane
Simon Riggs [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Fri, 2007-03-09 at 11:15 -0500, Tom Lane wrote: It strikes me that allowing archive_command to be changed on the fly might not be such a good idea though, or at least it shouldn't be possible to flip it from empty to nonempty during live operation.

Re: [HACKERS] CLUSTER and MVCC

2007-03-09 Thread Florian G. Pflug
Tom Lane wrote: Heikki Linnakangas [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: We wouldn't clean up tuples that are visible to a transaction, but if you have one long-running transaction like pg_dump in a database with otherwise short transaction, you'll have a lot of tuples that are not vacuumable because of

Re: [HACKERS] Interaction of PITR backups and Bulkoperationsavoiding WAL

2007-03-09 Thread Simon Riggs
On Fri, 2007-03-09 at 11:47 -0500, Tom Lane wrote: Simon Riggs [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Fri, 2007-03-09 at 11:15 -0500, Tom Lane wrote: It strikes me that allowing archive_command to be changed on the fly might not be such a good idea though, or at least it shouldn't be possible to

Re: [HACKERS] Interaction of PITR backups and Bulk operationsavoiding WAL

2007-03-09 Thread Andreas Pflug
Tom Lane wrote: Simon Riggs [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Fri, 2007-03-09 at 11:15 -0500, Tom Lane wrote: It strikes me that allowing archive_command to be changed on the fly might not be such a good idea though, or at least it shouldn't be possible to flip it from empty to nonempty

Re: [HACKERS] Interaction of PITR backups and Bulk operationsavoiding WAL

2007-03-09 Thread Csaba Nagy
On Fri, 2007-03-09 at 17:47, Tom Lane wrote: I don't think that people are very likely to need to turn archiving on and off on-the-fly. We did need occasionally to turn archiving on on-the-fly. It did happen that I started up a new DB machine and I did not have yet the log archive available, so

Re: [HACKERS] Estimating seq_page_fetch and random_page_fetch

2007-03-09 Thread Grzegorz Jaskiewicz
It would be interested to see some code here. Maybe this would be a great oportunity to start - some sort of 'auto- tune' (as an option), in the area. -- GJ C/C++/SQL freelance to hire. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Have you searched our

Re: [HACKERS] Bug: Buffer cache is not scan resistant

2007-03-09 Thread Luke Lonergan
Cool! - Luke Msg is shrt cuz m on ma treo -Original Message- From: Simon Riggs [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 02:32 PM Eastern Standard Time To: Luke Lonergan; ITAGAKI Takahiro Cc: Sherry Moore; Tom Lane; Mark Kirkwood; Pavan Deolasee; Gavin Sherry;

Re: [HACKERS] who gets paid for this

2007-03-09 Thread Lukas Kahwe Smith
Andrew Dunstan wrote: Tom Lane wrote: Even more to the point, getting paid for has almost nothing to do with has commit privileges. At least on this project. Darn. So the cheque isn't really in the mail? I think his question was just which ratio of developers works on PostgreSQL on

Re: [HACKERS] Log levels for checkpoint/bgwriter monitoring

2007-03-09 Thread Jim Nasby
On Mar 8, 2007, at 11:51 PM, Greg Smith wrote: almost everything that's dirty is also pinned during pgbench, and the LRU is lucky to find anything it can write as a result I'm wondering if pg_bench is a good test of this stuff. ISTM it's unrealistically write-heavy, which is going to tend

Re: [HACKERS] Log levels for checkpoint/bgwriter monitoring

2007-03-09 Thread Jim Nasby
On Mar 8, 2007, at 11:51 PM, Greg Smith wrote: almost everything that's dirty is also pinned during pgbench, and the LRU is lucky to find anything it can write as a result I'm wondering if pg_bench is a good test of this stuff. ISTM it's unrealistically write-heavy, which is going to tend

Re: [HACKERS] Log levels for checkpoint/bgwriter monitoring

2007-03-09 Thread Jim Nasby
On Mar 9, 2007, at 7:57 AM, Greg Smith wrote: On Fri, 9 Mar 2007, ITAGAKI Takahiro wrote: Pinned means bufHdr-refcount 0 and you don't distinguish pinned or recently-used (bufHdr-usage_count 0) buffers in your patch. Thank you, I will revise the terminology used accordingly. I was

Re: [HACKERS] Bug in VACUUM FULL ?

2007-03-09 Thread Tom Lane
Pavan Deolasee [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The problem mentioned before is hard to reproduce with the suggested change, but its not completely gone away. I have seen that again on CVS HEAD with the patch applied. I am facing another issue with VACUUM FULL. This problem gets reproduced with HOT

Re: [HACKERS] Auto creation of Partitions

2007-03-09 Thread Jim Nasby
On Mar 9, 2007, at 3:31 AM, Zeugswetter Andreas ADI SD wrote: Since partition is inheritance-based, a simple DROP or NO INHERIT will do the job to deal with the partition. Do we want to reinvent additional syntax when these are around and are documented? Well, if the syntax for adding a new

Re: [HACKERS] Auto creation of Partitions

2007-03-09 Thread Hannu Krosing
Ühel kenal päeval, R, 2007-03-09 kell 15:41, kirjutas Jim Nasby: On Mar 9, 2007, at 3:31 AM, Zeugswetter Andreas ADI SD wrote: Since partition is inheritance-based, a simple DROP or NO INHERIT will do the job to deal with the partition. Do we want to reinvent additional syntax when these

Re: [HACKERS] who gets paid for this

2007-03-09 Thread Joshua D. Drake
Christian Bird wrote: Hi all, I'm a grad student at UC Davis studying the postgres community and I wanted to know if some on this list could help me out. I'm studying the factors that affect people graduating from being mailing list participant to developers with write access to the

Re: [HACKERS] Bug in VACUUM FULL ?

2007-03-09 Thread Simon Riggs
On Fri, 2007-03-09 at 16:40 -0500, Tom Lane wrote: I wonder whether this has any implications for HOT ... My general feeling, expressed in a number of recent posts was that the VACUUM FULL code really isn't worth the trouble it causes. Especially when CLUSTER does a better job anyway? I've

[HACKERS] autovacuum next steps, take 3

2007-03-09 Thread Alvaro Herrera
Here is a low-level, very detailed description of the implementation of the autovacuum ideas we have so far. launcher's dealing with databases - We'll add a new member nexttime to the autovac_dbase struct, which will be the time_t of the next time a worker needs

Re: [HACKERS] Bug in VACUUM FULL ?

2007-03-09 Thread Tom Lane
Simon Riggs [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Fri, 2007-03-09 at 16:40 -0500, Tom Lane wrote: I wonder whether this has any implications for HOT ... My general feeling, expressed in a number of recent posts was that the VACUUM FULL code really isn't worth the trouble it causes. Especially when

Re: [HACKERS] Bug in VACUUM FULL ?

2007-03-09 Thread Joshua D. Drake
Put it another way: if anybody submitted a patch that does what VACUUM FULL does, coded in the way it is, it would never be applied, now. Have an opinion do we? How about we just alias VACUUM FULL to cluster and add the reporting stuff from VERBOSE? Joshua D. Drake -- === The

Re: [HACKERS] Log levels for checkpoint/bgwriter monitoring

2007-03-09 Thread Tom Lane
Jim Nasby [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Mar 8, 2007, at 11:51 PM, Greg Smith wrote: almost everything that's dirty is also pinned during pgbench, and the LRU is lucky to find anything it can write as a result I'm wondering if pg_bench is a good test of this stuff. On reflection I think that

Re: [HACKERS] autovacuum next steps, take 3

2007-03-09 Thread Matthew T. O'Connor
My initial reaction is that this looks good to me, but still a few comments below. Alvaro Herrera wrote: Here is a low-level, very detailed description of the implementation of the autovacuum ideas we have so far. launcher's dealing with databases - [ Snip ]

Re: [HACKERS] who gets paid for this

2007-03-09 Thread Dave Page
Joshua D. Drake wrote: Christian Bird wrote: Hi all, I'm a grad student at UC Davis studying the postgres community and I wanted to know if some on this list could help me out. I'm studying the factors that affect people graduating from being mailing list participant to developers with write

Re: [HACKERS] autovacuum next steps, take 3

2007-03-09 Thread Tom Lane
Matthew T. O'Connor matthew@zeut.net writes: Does a new worker really care about the PID of other workers or what table they are currently working on? As written, it needs the PIDs so it can read in the other workers' todo lists (which are in files named by PID). It's not clear to me why a

Re: [HACKERS] Log levels for checkpoint/bgwriter monitoring

2007-03-09 Thread Greg Smith
On Fri, 9 Mar 2007, Jim Nasby wrote: I'm wondering if pg_bench is a good test of this stuff. ISTM it's unrealistically write-heavy, which is going to tend to not only put a lot of dirty buffers into the pool, but also keep them pinned enough that you can't write them. Whether it's

Re: [HACKERS] Bug in VACUUM FULL ?

2007-03-09 Thread Gregory Stark
Tom Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It's not surprising that tuples could have xmax less than xmin, since transactions can commit in orders different than they start; when using READ COMMITTED updates it's not at all surprising that a transaction might update rows after a later-numbered

Re: [HACKERS] autovacuum next steps, take 3

2007-03-09 Thread Matthew T. O'Connor
Tom Lane wrote: Matthew T. O'Connor matthew@zeut.net writes: It's not clear to me why a worker cares that there is a new worker, since the new worker is going to ignore all the tables that are already claimed by all worker todo lists. That seems wrong to me, since it means that new workers

Re: [HACKERS] Bug in VACUUM FULL ?

2007-03-09 Thread Tom Lane
Gregory Stark [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: So txn 4's xmin is txn 3, leaving the global OldestXmin = txn 3 which lies between txn 1 and txn 2. And the tuple chain consists of two tuples. The original which has xmax younger than OldestXmin and so is RECENTLY_DEAD. And the updated tuple which has

Re: [HACKERS] Log levels for checkpoint/bgwriter monitoring

2007-03-09 Thread Greg Smith
On Fri, 9 Mar 2007, Tom Lane wrote: I'd be interested to know what scale factor and shared_buffers setting led to the above measurement. That was just a trivial example with 1 client, scale=10 (~160MB database), and shared_buffers=24MB. Where things really get interesting with pgbench is

Re: [HACKERS] Bug in VACUUM FULL ?

2007-03-09 Thread Gregory Stark
Tom Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hm, I wonder if you could just notice that xmin is younger than OldestXmin. You can see that at the newer tuple, but the problem is to propagate the knowledge back to the older tuple(s). Or were you suggesting that we treat the newer tuple as

Re: [HACKERS] Bug in VACUUM FULL ?

2007-03-09 Thread Tom Lane
Gregory Stark [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Breaking the chain up into pieces seems weird. It seems like it's obviously bogus and only works because we're sure the tuples are dead anyways so it doesn't really matter what we do with them. Yup, exactly. If we wanted to be tense about this we'd try

[HACKERS] My honours project - databases using dynamically attached entity-properties

2007-03-09 Thread Edward Stanley
Hi, Was wondering if people would mind having a read over what I plan to do for my undergraduate honours project - you can get the proposal here: http://www.mcs.vuw.ac.nz/~eddie/489_Proposal.pdf What I'd basically like to know is a) Is this problem worth solving? b) Is there already a good

Re: [HACKERS] Calculated view fields (8.1 != 8.2)

2007-03-09 Thread Gaetano Mendola
Florian G. Pflug wrote: Gaetano Mendola wrote: Martijn van Oosterhout wrote: On Fri, Mar 09, 2007 at 10:59:56AM +0100, Gaetano Mendola wrote: Is really this what we want? I did a migration 8.0.x = 8.2.3 and I had on first hour of service up lot of queries blocked due to this, consider in my

Re: [HACKERS] who gets paid for this

2007-03-09 Thread Christian Bird
I didn't mean to imply that getting paid is correlated with getting commit privileges. However, there is literature that supports the idea that those who are under employ to help in OSS projects may behave differently than those who are contributing in their free time (check out

Re: [HACKERS] Calculated view fields (8.1 != 8.2)

2007-03-09 Thread Gaetano Mendola
Florian G. Pflug wrote: Martijn van Oosterhout wrote: On Fri, Mar 09, 2007 at 10:59:56AM +0100, Gaetano Mendola wrote: Is really this what we want? I did a migration 8.0.x = 8.2.3 and I had on first hour of service up lot of queries blocked due to this, consider in my case I have on v_ta

Re: [HACKERS] msvc failure in largeobject regression test

2007-03-09 Thread Andrew Dunstan
Magnus Hagander wrote: On Tue, Jan 23, 2007 at 11:39:23AM -0800, Jeremy Drake wrote: On Tue, 23 Jan 2007, Magnus Hagander wrote: On Tue, Jan 23, 2007 at 09:31:40AM -0500, Andrew Dunstan wrote: Magnus Hagander wrote: Hi! I get failures for the largeobject regression

Re: [HACKERS] Auto creation of Partitions

2007-03-09 Thread Robert Treat
On Friday 09 March 2007 01:23, NikhilS wrote: Hi, This follows on from the suggestion I made - taken along the lines of the subject auto creation of partitions where I suggested the syntax of partition check(month of mydatecol) and have a new partition created as data was entered. With

Re: [HACKERS] Auto creation of Partitions

2007-03-09 Thread NikhilS
Hi, On 3/10/07, Hannu Krosing [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ühel kenal päeval, R, 2007-03-09 kell 15:41, kirjutas Jim Nasby: On Mar 9, 2007, at 3:31 AM, Zeugswetter Andreas ADI SD wrote: Since partition is inheritance-based, a simple DROP or NO INHERIT will do the job to deal with the

Re: [HACKERS] Auto creation of Partitions

2007-03-09 Thread NikhilS
Hi, Given that Simon wants to do away with having the master table APPENDed in the planning phase, this would be better. ISTM you're trading appending the master table for appending the DUMP partition, which afaict would give you no gain. If there are entries in the master table, I

Re: [HACKERS] msvc failure in largeobject regression test

2007-03-09 Thread Tom Lane
Andrew Dunstan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Magnus Hagander wrote: I wonder if this is a line-end issue? Assuming you are working from CVS, does your client turn \n into \r\n ? I have just run into this today while trying to get buildfarm working for MSVC. After some consideration I think an

Re: [HACKERS] Calculated view fields (8.1 != 8.2)

2007-03-09 Thread Tom Lane
Gaetano Mendola [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I can immagine a case when a lower module exports a view to upper layer stating the interface as list of fields: first_name, last_name, with an *hidden* field that is a function call that updates the statistics on how many time a given record