Re: [PEDA] Re[2]: Fastest possible Protel system, price is not a concern.
At 17:03 22.07.02 -0400, you wrote: Just my 2c worth on this. I guess it all depends on what you want. If you are building from scratch, I'd look at: - Antec for the case and power supply. ( http://www.antec-inc.com/en_perf_plushome.html ) (A hefty 400-430W power supply and lots of case fans to help keep things cool and reliable. Have a look at their SOHO line) The statement lots of case fans lets me think about our server (HP LC3). It has two enormous fans, which keeps the machine cool. But I wouldn't like to have this machine in my office, because it's quite noisy. Otherwise, it would be a nice and very robust system, even though it's already a bit old (means slow) for a workstation. Have you thought about a server-class machine? I'm pleased with HP. Edi Im Hof - Asus, Abit (or Intel) for motherboards. I think that if a system board has been shown to run reliably at some percentage over it's specified clock speed, that is an indication of how reliable the system is going to be at it's (lower) rated normal speed. Reliability seems key here, so I'd not completely dismiss a gamer's overclocking review, for this reason. (ok, ok, so I play some Descent in my spare time, but I don't overclock!!) ---Phil snip + IH electronic+ Phone: ++41 52 320 90 00 + + Edi Im Hof + Fax: ++41 52 320 90 04 + + Doernlerstrasse 1, Sulz + URL: http://www.ihe.ch + + CH-8544 Rickenbach-Attikon + E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] + + Switzerland + + * Tracking #: DF2F42FD5FD1854096CAED7597B4F9A3711E2673 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Auto-Pan patch was Speaking of Protel Bugs.
Well I certainly am not familar with that problem and I don't have any toolbars floating over my workspace. My card is Nvidia based GF2MX. -Original Message- From: Brian Guralnick [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 11:55 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Auto-Pan patch was Speaking of Protel Bugs. For those of you who didn't figure it out: My auto-pan patch is a FULLY FUNCTIONAL insult to Protel. All I did was place 2 or more Always On Top windows over Protel's display screen. This is why some people who have ATI Matrox video cards, or any other problematic brands, do not experience the lockup of the mouse. IT'S BECAUSE THEY HAVE 1 OR MORE TOOL BARS OVER THE PROTEL PCB WINDOW. This is IDENTICAL as having my 2 dummy windows, in my pan patch, over your Protel screen. For years now, Protel has had issues with panning-mouse snagging, if a fully functional fix is to add a few small windows always on top of Protel's display refresh area, then something fundamentally weird with how Protel works within the system when panning the screen. Perhaps at Protel, the panning issue never comes up, because, they always test their software with the default tool applets floating over the PCB work area. I like to place my tool applets snapped along a vertical, or horizontal border. This does not count since Protel doesn't have to draw beneath these tool windows. Brian Guralnick [EMAIL PROTECTED] Voice (514) 624-4003 Fax (514) 624-3631 - Original Message - From: Terry Creer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Protel EDA Forum' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 2:07 AM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Auto-Pan patch was Speaking of Protel Bugs. I've got a funny feeling he's talking about yours, Brian TC -Original Message- From: Brian Guralnick [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, 23 July 2002 3:27 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Auto-Pan patch was Speaking of Protel Bugs. 2. ) I am also betting that the anti-intuitave panning is still there (yes Ian, I know that you like it, and I know that you wrote a routine to fx it, but it still is backwards and unlike no other system in the world). JaMi Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ian has an auto-pan patch? What does it do? Where can I get it? Brian Guralnick [EMAIL PROTECTED] Voice (514) 624-4003 Fax (514) 624-3631 - Original Message - From: JaMi Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: JaMi Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 10:22 PM Subject: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs. Speaking of Protel Bugs . . . What are the odds on whether your favorite Bug has been fixed in DXP? 1. ) I am betting that the Keyboard / Mouse problem that has been there since Protel 98 has not been fixed. 2. ) I am also betting that the anti-intuitave panning is still there (yes Ian, I know that you like it, and I know that you wrote a routine to fx it, but it still is backwards and unlike no other system in the world). 3. ) I am also betting that Protel's Print Dialogue box is also still backwards as compared to the rest of the world (For those that don't consider the way that Protel handles printing a bug, go play with Adobe Acrobat (or any other Windows Application) for a while then come back to Protel to see how it it is not done right). Also, show me one other major application in the Windows world that has a Print Icon on a toolbar that invokes a Printer Dialog Box that will not print anything at all, as the one in the PCB 3-D View (It only does printer setup). 4. ) I guess my one real question will be what have the done with Schematic. Will it still act like a bastard sibling that has been hastily patched into a system where it is totally foreign function wise, or have they actually taken the time to properly integrate it into the environment so that things like panning, zooming, and function keys, will work the same as within the other applications. Who's giving what odds? What else do you have for the list? No fair on you guys who have been beta testing letting the cat out of the bag. JaMi Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Tracking #: 194767ADA7AA1E4E85C23695D58B302A7C6D1DC3 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * *
Re: [PEDA] Auto-Pan patch was Speaking of Protel Bugs.
Jeepers Brian why didn't you say so earlier? I tried your patch but found it a bit clunky and I think it had a refresh problem as well. Now you tell me all I have to do is undock the placement tools toolbar - and voila! No more panning problems. Doh! Thanks for the tip. Tom. -Original Message- From: Brian Guralnick [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, 23 July 2002 4:55 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Auto-Pan patch was Speaking of Protel Bugs. For those of you who didn't figure it out: My auto-pan patch is a FULLY FUNCTIONAL insult to Protel. All I did was place 2 or more Always On Top windows over Protel's display screen. This is why some people who have ATI Matrox video cards, or any other problematic brands, do not experience the lockup of the mouse. IT'S BECAUSE THEY HAVE 1 OR MORE TOOL BARS OVER THE PROTEL PCB WINDOW. This is IDENTICAL as having my 2 dummy windows, in my pan patch, over your Protel screen. For years now, Protel has had issues with panning-mouse snagging, if a fully functional fix is to add a few small windows always on top of Protel's display refresh area, then something fundamentally weird with how Protel works within the system when panning the screen. Perhaps at Protel, the panning issue never comes up, because, they always test their software with the default tool applets floating over the PCB work area. I like to place my tool applets snapped along a vertical, or horizontal border. This does not count since Protel doesn't have to draw beneath these tool windows. Brian Guralnick [EMAIL PROTECTED] Voice (514) 624-4003 Fax (514) 624-3631 - Original Message - From: Terry Creer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Protel EDA Forum' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 2:07 AM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Auto-Pan patch was Speaking of Protel Bugs. I've got a funny feeling he's talking about yours, Brian TC -Original Message- From: Brian Guralnick [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, 23 July 2002 3:27 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Auto-Pan patch was Speaking of Protel Bugs. 2. ) I am also betting that the anti-intuitave panning is still there (yes Ian, I know that you like it, and I know that you wrote a routine to fx it, but it still is backwards and unlike no other system in the world). JaMi Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ian has an auto-pan patch? What does it do? Where can I get it? Brian Guralnick [EMAIL PROTECTED] Voice (514) 624-4003 Fax (514) 624-3631 - Original Message - From: JaMi Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: JaMi Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 10:22 PM Subject: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs. Speaking of Protel Bugs . . . What are the odds on whether your favorite Bug has been fixed in DXP? 1. ) I am betting that the Keyboard / Mouse problem that has been there since Protel 98 has not been fixed. 2. ) I am also betting that the anti-intuitave panning is still there (yes Ian, I know that you like it, and I know that you wrote a routine to fx it, but it still is backwards and unlike no other system in the world). 3. ) I am also betting that Protel's Print Dialogue box is also still backwards as compared to the rest of the world (For those that don't consider the way that Protel handles printing a bug, go play with Adobe Acrobat (or any other Windows Application) for a while then come back to Protel to see how it it is not done right). Also, show me one other major application in the Windows world that has a Print Icon on a toolbar that invokes a Printer Dialog Box that will not print anything at all, as the one in the PCB 3-D View (It only does printer setup). 4. ) I guess my one real question will be what have the done with Schematic. Will it still act like a bastard sibling that has been hastily patched into a system where it is totally foreign function wise, or have they actually taken the time to properly integrate it into the environment so that things like panning, zooming, and function keys, will work the same as within the other applications. Who's giving what odds? What else do you have for the list? No fair on you guys who have been beta testing letting the cat out of the bag. JaMi Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** ** * Tracking #: 194767ADA7AA1E4E85C23695D58B302A7C6D1DC3 * ** ** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: *
[PEDA] SMT Track fanout
Hello everyone I am laying out my first SMT board and am having problems with track fanout (if that's the correct phrase) from the SMT pads? QUESTION : In the real world what is the prescribed / preferred / best way to fanout from a SMT pad? Some of the information that I have found seems to prescribe that the tracks come out parallel to the pads on opposite sides to prevent Tombstones and or slanted components. TIA TONY BAIA Centurion Systems P.O. Box 506 Cramerview 2060 South Africa e-mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] (takeout -nospam ) Web : http://www.centsys.co.za * Tracking #: 4C001A1D39BCC54A81A164059B9F16988443DFF2 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Auto-Pan patch was Speaking of Protel Bugs.
No you're not alone. It works for me too. It's just that you're the only one cluey enough to notice. Thanks again. -Original Message- From: Brian Guralnick [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, 23 July 2002 5:13 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Auto-Pan patch was Speaking of Protel Bugs. I mean, Is it just me, or if you buy a PC and install nothing but Protel, you get a whole lot of sticky manual routing/panning problems, but, if your PC has ICQ installed, a stock ticker, MP3 player, Email client running other things that have windows refreshing windows on your desktop, Protel will run better, the mouse will not lock up when scrolling? Honestly, I think it should be written on Protel's box : To get the best system performance with Protel, run as many cheesy apps as you can when working in Protel. Brian Guralnick [EMAIL PROTECTED] Voice (514) 624-4003 Fax (514) 624-3631 - Original Message - From: Brian Guralnick [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 2:54 AM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Auto-Pan patch was Speaking of Protel Bugs. For those of you who didn't figure it out: My auto-pan patch is a FULLY FUNCTIONAL insult to Protel. All I did was place 2 or more Always On Top windows over Protel's display screen. This is why some people who have ATI Matrox video cards, or any other problematic brands, do not experience the lockup of the mouse. IT'S BECAUSE THEY HAVE 1 OR MORE TOOL BARS OVER THE PROTEL PCB WINDOW. This is IDENTICAL as having my 2 dummy windows, in my pan patch, over your Protel screen. For years now, Protel has had issues with panning-mouse snagging, if a fully functional fix is to add a few small windows always on top of Protel's display refresh area, then something fundamentally weird with how Protel works within the system when panning the screen. Perhaps at Protel, the panning issue never comes up, because, they always test their software with the default tool applets floating over the PCB work area. I like to place my tool applets snapped along a vertical, or horizontal border. This does not count since Protel doesn't have to draw beneath these tool windows. Brian Guralnick [EMAIL PROTECTED] Voice (514) 624-4003 Fax (514) 624-3631 - Original Message - From: Terry Creer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Protel EDA Forum' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 2:07 AM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Auto-Pan patch was Speaking of Protel Bugs. I've got a funny feeling he's talking about yours, Brian TC -Original Message- From: Brian Guralnick [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, 23 July 2002 3:27 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Auto-Pan patch was Speaking of Protel Bugs. 2. ) I am also betting that the anti-intuitave panning is still there (yes Ian, I know that you like it, and I know that you wrote a routine to fx it, but it still is backwards and unlike no other system in the world). JaMi Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ian has an auto-pan patch? What does it do? Where can I get it? Brian Guralnick [EMAIL PROTECTED] Voice (514) 624-4003 Fax (514) 624-3631 - Original Message - From: JaMi Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: JaMi Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 10:22 PM Subject: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs. Speaking of Protel Bugs . . . What are the odds on whether your favorite Bug has been fixed in DXP? 1. ) I am betting that the Keyboard / Mouse problem that has been there since Protel 98 has not been fixed. 2. ) I am also betting that the anti-intuitave panning is still there (yes Ian, I know that you like it, and I know that you wrote a routine to fx it, but it still is backwards and unlike no other system in the world). 3. ) I am also betting that Protel's Print Dialogue box is also still backwards as compared to the rest of the world (For those that don't consider the way that Protel handles printing a bug, go play with Adobe Acrobat (or any other Windows Application) for a while then come back to Protel to see how it it is not done right). Also, show me one other major application in the Windows world that has a Print Icon on a toolbar that invokes a Printer Dialog Box that will not print anything at all, as the one in the PCB 3-D View (It only does printer setup). 4. ) I guess my one real question will be what have the done with Schematic. Will it still act like a bastard sibling that has been hastily patched into a system where it is totally foreign function wise, or have they
Re: [PEDA] Auto-Pan patch was Speaking of Protel Bugs.
Well I certainly am not familar with that problem and I don't have any toolbars floating over my workspace. My card is Nvidia based GF2MX. I know. The GF* video card rarely ever lock up the mouse when panning in Protel. This is why I am spending so much time researching my Fastes Protel system. I want to pick out a system which will run Protel 99SE with as few snags annoyances as possible. Brian Guralnick [EMAIL PROTECTED] Voice (514) 624-4003 Fax (514) 624-3631 - Original Message - From: Tony Karavidas [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 3:18 AM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Auto-Pan patch was Speaking of Protel Bugs. Well I certainly am not familar with that problem and I don't have any toolbars floating over my workspace. My card is Nvidia based GF2MX. -Original Message- From: Brian Guralnick [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 11:55 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Auto-Pan patch was Speaking of Protel Bugs. For those of you who didn't figure it out: My auto-pan patch is a FULLY FUNCTIONAL insult to Protel. All I did was place 2 or more Always On Top windows over Protel's display screen. This is why some people who have ATI Matrox video cards, or any other problematic brands, do not experience the lockup of the mouse. IT'S BECAUSE THEY HAVE 1 OR MORE TOOL BARS OVER THE PROTEL PCB WINDOW. This is IDENTICAL as having my 2 dummy windows, in my pan patch, over your Protel screen. For years now, Protel has had issues with panning-mouse snagging, if a fully functional fix is to add a few small windows always on top of Protel's display refresh area, then something fundamentally weird with how Protel works within the system when panning the screen. Perhaps at Protel, the panning issue never comes up, because, they always test their software with the default tool applets floating over the PCB work area. I like to place my tool applets snapped along a vertical, or horizontal border. This does not count since Protel doesn't have to draw beneath these tool windows. Brian Guralnick [EMAIL PROTECTED] Voice (514) 624-4003 Fax (514) 624-3631 - Original Message - From: Terry Creer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Protel EDA Forum' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 2:07 AM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Auto-Pan patch was Speaking of Protel Bugs. I've got a funny feeling he's talking about yours, Brian TC -Original Message- From: Brian Guralnick [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, 23 July 2002 3:27 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Auto-Pan patch was Speaking of Protel Bugs. 2. ) I am also betting that the anti-intuitave panning is still there (yes Ian, I know that you like it, and I know that you wrote a routine to fx it, but it still is backwards and unlike no other system in the world). JaMi Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ian has an auto-pan patch? What does it do? Where can I get it? Brian Guralnick [EMAIL PROTECTED] Voice (514) 624-4003 Fax (514) 624-3631 - Original Message - From: JaMi Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: JaMi Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 10:22 PM Subject: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs. Speaking of Protel Bugs . . . What are the odds on whether your favorite Bug has been fixed in DXP? 1. ) I am betting that the Keyboard / Mouse problem that has been there since Protel 98 has not been fixed. 2. ) I am also betting that the anti-intuitave panning is still there (yes Ian, I know that you like it, and I know that you wrote a routine to fx it, but it still is backwards and unlike no other system in the world). 3. ) I am also betting that Protel's Print Dialogue box is also still backwards as compared to the rest of the world (For those that don't consider the way that Protel handles printing a bug, go play with Adobe Acrobat (or any other Windows Application) for a while then come back to Protel to see how it it is not done right). Also, show me one other major application in the Windows world that has a Print Icon on a toolbar that invokes a Printer Dialog Box that will not print anything at all, as the one in the PCB 3-D View (It only does printer setup). 4. ) I guess my one real question will be what have the done with Schematic. Will it still act like a bastard sibling that has been hastily patched into a system where it is totally foreign function wise, or have they actually taken the time to properly integrate it into the environment so that things like panning, zooming, and function keys, will work
Re: [PEDA] Auto-Pan patch was Speaking of Protel Bugs.
Jeepers Brian why didn't you say so earlier? I tried your patch but found it a bit clunky and I think it had a refresh problem as well. Now you tell me all I have to do is undock the placement tools toolbar - and voila! No more panning problems. Doh! Thanks for the tip. Tom. Yup, that's all my patch does. The more Protel undocked windows you strategically place vertically on left right most, horizontally top bottom most without getting them docked along the border will prevent your pan from locking continuously. Brian Guralnick [EMAIL PROTECTED] Voice (514) 624-4003 Fax (514) 624-3631 - Original Message - From: Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Protel EDA Forum' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 3:19 AM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Auto-Pan patch was Speaking of Protel Bugs. Jeepers Brian why didn't you say so earlier? I tried your patch but found it a bit clunky and I think it had a refresh problem as well. Now you tell me all I have to do is undock the placement tools toolbar - and voila! No more panning problems. Doh! Thanks for the tip. Tom. -Original Message- From: Brian Guralnick [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, 23 July 2002 4:55 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Auto-Pan patch was Speaking of Protel Bugs. For those of you who didn't figure it out: My auto-pan patch is a FULLY FUNCTIONAL insult to Protel. All I did was place 2 or more Always On Top windows over Protel's display screen. This is why some people who have ATI Matrox video cards, or any other problematic brands, do not experience the lockup of the mouse. IT'S BECAUSE THEY HAVE 1 OR MORE TOOL BARS OVER THE PROTEL PCB WINDOW. This is IDENTICAL as having my 2 dummy windows, in my pan patch, over your Protel screen. For years now, Protel has had issues with panning-mouse snagging, if a fully functional fix is to add a few small windows always on top of Protel's display refresh area, then something fundamentally weird with how Protel works within the system when panning the screen. Perhaps at Protel, the panning issue never comes up, because, they always test their software with the default tool applets floating over the PCB work area. I like to place my tool applets snapped along a vertical, or horizontal border. This does not count since Protel doesn't have to draw beneath these tool windows. Brian Guralnick [EMAIL PROTECTED] Voice (514) 624-4003 Fax (514) 624-3631 - Original Message - From: Terry Creer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Protel EDA Forum' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 2:07 AM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Auto-Pan patch was Speaking of Protel Bugs. I've got a funny feeling he's talking about yours, Brian TC -Original Message- From: Brian Guralnick [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, 23 July 2002 3:27 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Auto-Pan patch was Speaking of Protel Bugs. 2. ) I am also betting that the anti-intuitave panning is still there (yes Ian, I know that you like it, and I know that you wrote a routine to fx it, but it still is backwards and unlike no other system in the world). JaMi Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ian has an auto-pan patch? What does it do? Where can I get it? Brian Guralnick [EMAIL PROTECTED] Voice (514) 624-4003 Fax (514) 624-3631 - Original Message - From: JaMi Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: JaMi Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 10:22 PM Subject: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs. Speaking of Protel Bugs . . . What are the odds on whether your favorite Bug has been fixed in DXP? 1. ) I am betting that the Keyboard / Mouse problem that has been there since Protel 98 has not been fixed. 2. ) I am also betting that the anti-intuitave panning is still there (yes Ian, I know that you like it, and I know that you wrote a routine to fx it, but it still is backwards and unlike no other system in the world). 3. ) I am also betting that Protel's Print Dialogue box is also still backwards as compared to the rest of the world (For those that don't consider the way that Protel handles printing a bug, go play with Adobe Acrobat (or any other Windows Application) for a while then come back to Protel to see how it it is not done right). Also, show me one other major application in the Windows world that has a Print Icon on a toolbar that invokes a Printer Dialog Box that will not print anything at all, as the one in the PCB 3-D View (It only does printer setup). 4. ) I guess my one real question will be what have the done with Schematic. Will it still act
Re: [PEDA] Auto-Pan patch was Speaking of Protel Bugs.
Man, you're up late too! I thought I was the only nut working this late! -Original Message- From: Brian Guralnick [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 12:51 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Auto-Pan patch was Speaking of Protel Bugs. Well I certainly am not familar with that problem and I don't have any toolbars floating over my workspace. My card is Nvidia based GF2MX. I know. The GF* video card rarely ever lock up the mouse when panning in Protel. This is why I am spending so much time researching my Fastes Protel system. I want to pick out a system which will run Protel 99SE with as few snags annoyances as possible. Brian Guralnick [EMAIL PROTECTED] Voice (514) 624-4003 Fax (514) 624-3631 - Original Message - From: Tony Karavidas [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 3:18 AM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Auto-Pan patch was Speaking of Protel Bugs. Well I certainly am not familar with that problem and I don't have any toolbars floating over my workspace. My card is Nvidia based GF2MX. -Original Message- From: Brian Guralnick [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 11:55 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Auto-Pan patch was Speaking of Protel Bugs. For those of you who didn't figure it out: My auto-pan patch is a FULLY FUNCTIONAL insult to Protel. All I did was place 2 or more Always On Top windows over Protel's display screen. This is why some people who have ATI Matrox video cards, or any other problematic brands, do not experience the lockup of the mouse. IT'S BECAUSE THEY HAVE 1 OR MORE TOOL BARS OVER THE PROTEL PCB WINDOW. This is IDENTICAL as having my 2 dummy windows, in my pan patch, over your Protel screen. For years now, Protel has had issues with panning-mouse snagging, if a fully functional fix is to add a few small windows always on top of Protel's display refresh area, then something fundamentally weird with how Protel works within the system when panning the screen. Perhaps at Protel, the panning issue never comes up, because, they always test their software with the default tool applets floating over the PCB work area. I like to place my tool applets snapped along a vertical, or horizontal border. This does not count since Protel doesn't have to draw beneath these tool windows. Brian Guralnick [EMAIL PROTECTED] Voice (514) 624-4003 Fax (514) 624-3631 - Original Message - From: Terry Creer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Protel EDA Forum' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 2:07 AM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Auto-Pan patch was Speaking of Protel Bugs. I've got a funny feeling he's talking about yours, Brian TC -Original Message- From: Brian Guralnick [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, 23 July 2002 3:27 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Auto-Pan patch was Speaking of Protel Bugs. 2. ) I am also betting that the anti-intuitave panning is still there (yes Ian, I know that you like it, and I know that you wrote a routine to fx it, but it still is backwards and unlike no other system in the world). JaMi Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ian has an auto-pan patch? What does it do? Where can I get it? Brian Guralnick [EMAIL PROTECTED] Voice (514) 624-4003 Fax (514) 624-3631 - Original Message - From: JaMi Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: JaMi Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 10:22 PM Subject: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs. Speaking of Protel Bugs . . . What are the odds on whether your favorite Bug has been fixed in DXP? 1. ) I am betting that the Keyboard / Mouse problem that has been there since Protel 98 has not been fixed. 2. ) I am also betting that the anti-intuitave panning is still there (yes Ian, I know that you like it, and I know that you wrote a routine to fx it, but it still is backwards and unlike no other system in the world). 3. ) I am also betting that Protel's Print Dialogue box is also still backwards as compared to the rest of the world (For those that don't consider the way that Protel handles printing a bug, go play with Adobe Acrobat (or any other Windows Application) for a while then come back to Protel to see how it it is not done right). Also, show me one other major application in the Windows world that has a Print Icon on a toolbar that invokes a Printer Dialog Box that will not print anything at all, as the one in the PCB 3-D
Re: [PEDA] Antwort: Speaking of Protel Bugs.
Tony, you wrote on 23.07.2002 04:47:57: Speaking about the ability of any other Windows Application: I really HATE IT when I'm working on a document in MS Word and I decide to change my print driver for HP Laserjet to Acrobat and all my FRICKIN' PAGE FORMATTING CHANGES!! You what that to be our MODEL for success. Please! Why can't MS word and these damn print drivers just print what I see on my screen!??? Why does my screen change when I change drivers?? What a PITA that is! very true indeed! This has been annoying me fro a very long time!.. Regards, Gisbert Auge N.A.T. GmbH www.nateurope.com * Tracking #: E3EE99410948C448B45FF6E78DF48F61D2ACE4B6 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.
OK Ian, I will elaborate . . . On 07:22 PM 22/07/2002 -0700, JaMi Smith said: Speaking of Protel Bugs . . . What are the odds on whether your favorite Bug has been fixed in DXP? 1. ) I am betting that the Keyboard / Mouse problem that has been there since Protel 98 has not been fixed. What problem? Protel 99 SE is at a minimum very instable with Microsoft Mouse Drivers, especially with Microsoft Intellimosue software and a wheel mouse. This bug has been acknowledged in the knowledge base as far back as Protel 98, where the reccommended correction has for years been install the original mouse driver (which is some trick since all Microsoft Operating Systems have been shipping with Intellimouse software for several years now). The Problem specifically is that the use of the wheel at a minimum disables all keyboard shortcuts such as PT for Place Track, and can even go so far as disabling the PgUp (zoom in) and PgDn (zoom out) type functions in some cases, and is one of the major causes of Instability and Crashes on many different types of Machines. Many Protel Users are unaware of the problems for several reasons: Some, since they do not use the keyboard shortcuts but always go to the pulldown menus, they don't even know that there is a problem other than Protel seems to crash alot. Some purchase systems complete with the latest Microsoft Operating Systems custom tailored and installed from companies such as IBM, DELL, Compac, etc., which have sightly different or slightly modified Intellimouse software that doesn't have the problem. Still others are lucky enough to have a Logitech Mouse with Logitech Mouseware, which is the best known solution to the problem. If they are using a system with a Logitech Mouse and software they may have never heard of or ever seen the effects of the problem. The real problem is that Protel has not addressed the problem for several releases of the software (with several service packs for each release), and yet it is at the minimum probably one of the largest contributors to instability and crashes on numerous systems. I would think that Protel would want to resolve this issue, since I think it would do wonders for the stability of the product. While many people in this list have at one time or another discounted this problem as ranging from simply not having the right driver installed, to having the wrong video card, to having a flakey machine or flakey installation of their operating system, all the way down to the problem being a figment of someones imagination, and even down to your response of What problem?, the problem is real. I actually look at this specific problem and it's continued presence in the Protel product as a measure of the competence of the Protel software developers and programmers, and believe that it has a direct bearing on their understanding of Microsoft Operating Systems and Applications Software, and specifically the Microsoft SDK. I find it very telling that the developers of a product such as Protel which is specifically designed for Windows Operating Systems (at least in its current incarnation), seem to have so much trouble interfacing with an internationally standard mouse driver. I am sorry, but I simply cannot accept some small company like Protel / Altium in Australia pointing the finger at Microsoft and saying it's their problem, or worse yet, saying that it is not a problem at all as I was told by Protel Sales and Technical Support people who said it would not be fixed until the next software release. WELL THIS IS THE NEXT SOFTWARE RELEASE - IS IT FIXED? Ian - This is a REAL bug, and it really does affect alot of installations out there in the way of crashes. Please don't make excuses for Protel on this one, it really does need to be fixed. 2. ) I am also betting that the anti-intuitave panning is still there (yes Ian, I know that you like it, and I know that you wrote a routine to fx it, but it still is backwards and unlike no other system in the world). I'm getting a little tired of this one - *you* may think it is wrong, others don't. Why do you insist on implying that others are wrong? I think you could respect others opinions a little by phrasing your complaint not as a bug (which it clearly isn't) but as merely your preference. Re-centering after a zoom (which is your preference, the lack of which you are calling a bug) can be demonstrated to require a mental refocussing especially on large screens - so an argument could be made that Protel, by not re-centering after a pan (Home key) is better. No bug here. I find it odd Ian that you like the way that Protel zooms in and out without centering about the cursor, like every other cad package I have ever seen, and even defend it, but you went ahead and wrote a server to fix the problem anyway, and then go on to say no bug here Granted, you and some others may have actually grown accustomed to the weird behaviour of Protel when it zooms in and
Re: [PEDA] Auto-Pan patch was Speaking of Protel Bugs.
On 01:56 AM 23/07/2002 -0400, Brian Guralnick said: 2. ) I am also betting that the anti-intuitave panning is still there (yes Ian, I know that you like it, and I know that you wrote a routine to fx it, but it still is backwards and unlike no other system in the world). JaMi Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ian has an auto-pan patch? What does it do? Where can I get it? No, JaMi is talking about his preference for the PgUp and PgDn zooms to also force a re-centre (equivalent to the Home key). Not related to the auto-pan lock-ups. I am taking him to task over his assertion it is a bug rather than a preference for an alternative manner of operation. My server exposed a number of processes that did a zoom followed by a re-centre. Ian Wilson * Tracking #: 0509AA3B7BFBC64A905FA60199DBE828686D822C * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.
-Original Message- From: JaMi Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 1:37 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Cc: JaMi Smith Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs. OK Ian, I will elaborate . . . On 07:22 PM 22/07/2002 -0700, JaMi Smith said: Speaking of Protel Bugs . . . What are the odds on whether your favorite Bug has been fixed in DXP? 1. ) I am betting that the Keyboard / Mouse problem that has been there since Protel 98 has not been fixed. What problem? Protel 99 SE is at a minimum very instable with Microsoft Mouse Drivers, especially with Microsoft Intellimosue software and a wheel mouse. This bug has been acknowledged in the knowledge base as far back as Protel 98, where the reccommended correction has for years been install the original mouse driver (which is some trick since all Microsoft Operating Systems have been shipping with Intellimouse software for several years now). No it's not unstable. (Not for me at least) That is exactly what I'm using for a mouse. I'm using whatever driver that came with Win2000. You're referring to a driver that was around in 1998. Have you tried using a newer version The Problem specifically is that the use of the wheel at a minimum disables all keyboard shortcuts such as PT for Place Track, and can even go so far as disabling the PgUp (zoom in) and PgDn (zoom out) type functions in some cases, and is one of the major causes of Instability and Crashes on many different types of Machines. Many Protel Users are unaware of the problems for several reasons: Some, since they do not use the keyboard shortcuts but always go to the pulldown menus, they don't even know that there is a problem other than Protel seems to crash alot. Some purchase systems complete with the latest Microsoft Operating Systems custom tailored and installed from companies such as IBM, DELL, Compac, etc., which have sightly different or slightly modified Intellimouse software that doesn't have the problem. Still others are lucky enough to have a Logitech Mouse with Logitech Mouseware, which is the best known solution to the problem. If they are using a system with a Logitech Mouse and software they may have never heard of or ever seen the effects of the problem. I'm unaware of the problem for none of those reasons. So you admit: ...sightly different or slightly modified Intellimouse software that doesn't have the problem... and still proceed to blame Protel?? That's a pretty lame position and a poor use of logic. Surely you can attribute some of the blame on MS mouse driver writers? The real problem is that Protel has not addressed the problem for several releases of the software (with several service packs for each release), and yet it is at the minimum probably one of the largest contributors to instability and crashes on numerous systems. I would think that Protel would want to resolve this issue, since I think it would do wonders for the stability of the product. P99SE is very stable for me and many others when used on WinNT or Win2000. While many people in this list have at one time or another discounted this problem as ranging from simply not having the right driver installed, to having the wrong video card, to having a flakey machine or flakey installation of their operating system, all the way down to the problem being a figment of someones imagination, and even down to your response of What problem?, the problem is real. I actually look at this specific problem and it's continued presence in the Protel product as a measure of the competence of the Protel software developers and programmers, and believe that it has a direct bearing on their understanding of Microsoft Operating Systems and Applications Software, and specifically the Microsoft SDK. I find it very telling that the developers of a product such as Protel which is specifically designed for Windows Operating Systems (at least in its current incarnation), seem to have so much trouble interfacing with an internationally standard mouse driver. I find it telling that my Intel USB camera REBOOTS my system when I'm running WinXP pro, but if I boot the SAME HARDWARE with Win2000, the camera is fine. I didn't do any tricky setup for either. I let the OS find the camera and install drivers. Why can't two multi billion dollar companies get a goddamn camera to work?? Did MS forget that Intel makes USB cameras? Didn't they test it? Maybe they did and it worked for them, but it doesn't work for me. (sounds familar huh?) I am sorry, but I simply cannot accept some small company like Protel / Altium in Australia pointing the finger at Microsoft and saying it's their problem, or worse yet, saying that it is not a problem at all as I was told by Protel Sales and Technical Support people who said it would not be fixed until the next software release. WELL THIS IS THE NEXT SOFTWARE RELEASE - IS IT
Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.
You should get the 30day trial as soon as it comes out and have a look for yourself. Rene Terry Creer wrote: Actually, now that beta testing is completed (well, according to the press release yesterday it is), does that mean that the beta testers can actually let the cat out of the bag? TC -Original Message- From: JaMi Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, 23 July 2002 11:53 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Cc: JaMi Smith Subject: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs. Speaking of Protel Bugs . . . What are the odds on whether your favorite Bug has been fixed in DXP? * Tracking #: 8DDAC4574410584496FF5D66841D68C94E28FF9E * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.
Is this what happens when you write software applications down under when everyone at Microsoft in Belview Washington is at home in bed and cannot answer your technical questions about the software? Maybe the down under has something to do with it? ;-) From one episode of the Simpsons, when Lisa is helping Bart study for a geography test, he looks at a globe and says hey, I didn't know there's an island called Rand McNally in the Pacific Ocean. Lisa tells him that in Rand McNally, everyone walks on their noses, and hamburgers eat people. To which Bart replies Cool!. rant on I also don't like the way dates are written in other parts of the world. I frequently see dates written as YY/MM/DD (Canadian) and as DD/MM/YY (British). Why can't we all agree on MM/DD/YY as THE one true correct standard? When you use dates in a spoken sentence, you say July 23, 2002. So why not write it that way numerically? rant off Now, if we could just get everybody to drop that metric and 220V 50Hz crap... ;-) Best regards, Ivan Baggett Bagotronix Inc. website: www.bagotronix.com - Original Message - From: JaMi Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: JaMi Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 4:36 AM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs. * Tracking #: FEA6A5084AAA1B4FBBCEA608A0CD8D2459FF9143 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] JC in both Speaking of Protel Bugs.
schematic uses Ctrl-F to 'find' a component i like that as it is like 'Find' in many other progs so what i did what program Ctrl-F in PCB to issue JC, this makes them the 'same' for me a set of differences i find more annoying than sch/pcb differences though are the ones between the PCBLIB and PCB RM in PCB = RI in PCBLIB DM in PCB = TM in PCBLIB and more re mice: i never had a problem w/ the MS wheel mouse and Protel over several generations of machines, mice and installations BTW, i almost never use the menus, i use hotkeys as much as possible Dennis Saputelli As for Sch PCB command commonality... maybe there are some things that differ - but they do have to reflect the differences in the actual entities. I would *hate* a package that tried to be so common across the various editors that it sacrificed functionality. But i do have a gripe about Sch and PCB differences - I want a J-C (Jump-Component) in Sch like in PCB. But that is about the only difference that I regularly hiccup on - oh, and right-click dragging in Sch. * Tracking #: 8F8756DA4375C74B8231A084CFB8F3FAEB7308F7 * -- ___ www.integratedcontrolsinc.comIntegrated Controls, Inc. tel: 415-647-04802851 21st Street fax: 415-647-3003San Francisco, CA 94110 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.
I guess this means we should write the time as minutes/seconds/hours then ;-) Dave Buckley -Original Message- From: Bagotronix Tech Support [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 23 July 2002 15:24 To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs. rant on I also don't like the way dates are written in other parts of the world. I frequently see dates written as YY/MM/DD (Canadian) and as DD/MM/YY (British). Why can't we all agree on MM/DD/YY as THE one true correct standard? When you use dates in a spoken sentence, you say July 23, 2002. So why not write it that way numerically? rant off Now, if we could just get everybody to drop that metric and 220V 50Hz crap... ;-) Best regards, Ivan Baggett Bagotronix Inc. website: www.bagotronix.com * Tracking #: 7F6D383BFAEF224F9CB269568E844B5D754436A1 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.
On Tue, 23 Jul 2002 22:23, Bagotronix Tech Support wrote: Is this what happens when you write software applications down under when everyone at Microsoft in Belview Washington is at home in bed and cannot answer your technical questions about the software? el snippo rant on I also don't like the way dates are written in other parts of the world. I frequently see dates written as YY/MM/DD (Canadian) and as DD/MM/YY (British). Why can't we all agree on MM/DD/YY as THE one true correct standard? When you use dates in a spoken sentence, you say July 23, 2002. So why not write it that way numerically? rant off Lol Maybe because some contries actually teach the date that way and in the AU legal system it is written something like this On this 23rd day of July 2002 or even On this Twenty Third day of July Two Thousand and Two But I do not mind which way it is stored as long as the user can change it, to suit the local culture, the canadian way I believe is based on French where they say the year then the month then the day. Now, if we could just get everybody to drop that metric and 220V 50Hz crap... ;-) I think we should adopt a higher voltage system so we can use a thinner conductor ;o) and frequency should be in the khz so we can be driven insane by transfoemer hum (hmm if it was high enough it would be more like singing ;o) Regards, Kat. * Tracking #: 4C339601323F66438F9532E85A96B2F72C93E03A * -- K.A.Q. Electronics Software and Electronic Engineering Perth, Western Australia Phone +61 (0) 419 923 731 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.
Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.
And you'd prefer times as MM:SS:HH? ;-) Personally, I'm out to get the whole world to adopt ISO-8601, which alows several formats, of which I prefer -MM-DD. That will sort correctly whether it's alphanumeric, or whatever. I didn't say anything about time format. You just assumed. Is OT Off-Topic, or On-Topic. Could be either! You just assumed. I'm not out to get the whole world to change to ISO-anything. I'm out to get the entire world to change to the way I do things ;-) You are right about the sorting order, though. But any app I use for sorting dates (Excel) can sort MM/DD/YY correctly anyway. New slogan: What do you want to put in your Protel template title block today? Best regards, Ivan Baggett Bagotronix Inc. website: www.bagotronix.com - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 11:43 AM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs. In a message dated 7/23/2002 11:25:56 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I also don't like the way dates are written in other parts of the world. I frequently see dates written as YY/MM/DD (Canadian) and as DD/MM/YY (British). Why can't we all agree on MM/DD/YY as THE one true correct standard? And you'd prefer times as MM:SS:HH? ;-) Personally, I'm out to get the whole world to adopt ISO-8601, which alows several formats, of which I prefer -MM-DD. That will sort correctly whether it's alphanumeric, or whatever. Are we getting a little OT here? Steve Hendrix * Tracking #: 302C7AEC4E668747A3931191787D4A780F50FC92 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.
Well the French do have to be different, now don't they? ;) I spent my last vacation in France, right through Sept 11, so do go thinking I'm French-bashing. They were very kind during that mess. Tony -Original Message- From: Katinka Mills [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 8:47 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs. On Tue, 23 Jul 2002 22:23, Bagotronix Tech Support wrote: Is this what happens when you write software applications down under when everyone at Microsoft in Belview Washington is at home in bed and cannot answer your technical questions about the software? el snippo rant on I also don't like the way dates are written in other parts of the world. I frequently see dates written as YY/MM/DD (Canadian) and as DD/MM/YY (British). Why can't we all agree on MM/DD/YY as THE one true correct standard? When you use dates in a spoken sentence, you say July 23, 2002. So why not write it that way numerically? rant off Lol Maybe because some contries actually teach the date that way and in the AU legal system it is written something like this On this 23rd day of July 2002 or even On this Twenty Third day of July Two Thousand and Two But I do not mind which way it is stored as long as the user can change it, to suit the local culture, the canadian way I believe is based on French where they say the year then the month then the day. Now, if we could just get everybody to drop that metric and 220V 50Hz crap... ;-) I think we should adopt a higher voltage system so we can use a thinner conductor ;o) and frequency should be in the khz so we can be driven insane by transfoemer hum (hmm if it was high enough it would be more like singing ;o) Regards, Kat. * Tracking #: 4C339601323F66438F9532E85A96B2F72C93E03A * -- -- -- K.A.Q. Electronics Software and Electronic Engineering Perth, Western Australia Phone +61 (0) 419 923 731 -- -- * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Microstrip footprints
Has anyone developed footprints for microstrip sections ? I have been trying to do this with pads set to certain length and widths. Mitered corners are particularly challenging to make as a library footprint. I have used two pads placed side by side at a 45 degree angle with the desired measurements. If I add fills to this footprint to complete the desired pattern then I will get DRC errors on my board once I load a netlist. It would be nice for this situation to have various pad shapes available (user defined), triangular, trapazoidal, etc. If anyone has found a solution, or knows where I can find microstrip footprints, please let me know. Thanks, Daniel * Tracking #: 302C7AEC4E668747A3931191787D4A780F50FC92 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.
I though the Canadian ISO system was based on numeric priority. Starting with the most significant, year, leading to the least significant, day. Sort of like normal numbers. Brian Guralnick [EMAIL PROTECTED] Voice (514) 624-4003 Fax (514) 624-3631 - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 11:43 AM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs. In a message dated 7/23/2002 11:25:56 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I also don't like the way dates are written in other parts of the world. I frequently see dates written as YY/MM/DD (Canadian) and as DD/MM/YY (British). Why can't we all agree on MM/DD/YY as THE one true correct standard? And you'd prefer times as MM:SS:HH? ;-) Personally, I'm out to get the whole world to adopt ISO-8601, which alows several formats, of which I prefer -MM-DD. That will sort correctly whether it's alphanumeric, or whatever. Are we getting a little OT here? Steve Hendrix * Tracking #: B826F43E5AAE904AB1745A14BD63CEC5DAD14077 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.
- Original Message - From: Tony Karavidas [EMAIL PROTECTED] snip -Original Message- From: JaMi Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] snip Protel 99 SE is at a minimum very instable with Microsoft Mouse Drivers, especially with Microsoft Intellimosue software and a wheel mouse. This bug has been acknowledged in the knowledge base as far back as Protel 98, where the reccommended correction has for years been install the original mouse driver (which is some trick since all Microsoft Operating Systems have been shipping with Intellimouse software for several years now). No it's not unstable. (Not for me at least) That is exactly what I'm using for a mouse. I'm using whatever driver that came with Win2000. You're referring to a driver that was around in 1998. Have you tried using a newer version snip I'm unaware of the problem for none of those reasons. So you admit: ...sightly different or slightly modified Intellimouse software that doesn't have the problem... and still proceed to blame Protel?? That's a pretty lame position and a poor use of logic. Surely you can attribute some of the blame on MS mouse driver writers? snip P99SE is very stable for me and many others when used on WinNT or Win2000. snip I am talking about July of last year with an almost new (less than 6 months old) Dell Dimension 4100 (1 GHz Pentium III), with Windows 2000 Professional, Office 2000 Professional, a brand new Microsoft Wheel Mouse, and a brand new out of the box installation of Protel 99 SE with Service Pack 6. Although my employer did have 2 other seats of Protel 99 SE at the time I was hired, they Purchased a third seat for me, and the keyboard / mouse issue was a problem from day one. Please note that one existing Protel 99 SE seat was used by an an engineer who only did schematic entry, and the other was used by someone relatively new to Protel who did not know anything about keyboard shortcuts, and always did everything the long way thru the pull down menus. The only problem he had was Protel crashing alot in PCB. Back to my new system and installation, although please note that the ultimate results were identical for all 3 virtually identical installations the company had. The minute you touched the wheel on the mouse, Protel lost contact with most of the keyboard (virtually none of the keyboard shortcuts worked, although you still had PgUp and PgDn, and a few other keys (although sometimes you would loose these also), although the keyboard would still work within a Dialogue Box. The system also began to crash on a regular basis, although never before had it crashed until Protel was installed on it, and then it only crashed in Protel. The Official Protel response from the 800 number which reached only the sales people in the San Diego Office at that time, who would not allow me to talk to anyone in technical support, was that technical support said that it was not a problem and it would not even be addressed or fixed until the next release of the software. This was Protel's Official response to a brand new customer who had just spent $8000.00 plus California Sales Tax at 8.75%. All they could say was that it was not a bug. New customer on a new system crashing 7 or 8 times a day and it was not a problem. They could not even point me to any solution. I was left to resolve the issue myself, and ultimately tracked it down to the wheel and the Intellimouse software, and once I did that I found out that you could disable the wheel in the for the certain applications in the Intellimouse software, which I did for Client 99. This resolved the loss of the ability to use the keyboard shortcuts, but did not resolve the frequent crashes of Protel. I ultimately found that this problem had been identified and listed as a problem and mentioned in the knowledge base continuously all the way back to Protel 98, but the sales person in San Diego couldn't even tell me that much, and I also had to find that out on my own. I also eventually found this forum, which has been of some help. The problem here is that in general everybody refuses to realize or acknowledge that this (as with many other things) is a bug, notwithstanding the fact that it has been acknowledged in the knowledge base for years and pops up here in the forum on a regular basis. Most people here appear to love Protel and hate Microsoft, so the blame always gets shifted to Microsoft or if not them, the implied stupid user. It was only after several months of using the Microsoft wheel mouse with the Intellimouse software wheel disabled for Protel, that I realized that the mouse wheel had always worked well on a previous employers Protel 98 and Protel 99 (in both Windows 95 and NT) which used a Logitech wheel mouse, and also the trial version of Protel 99 SE that I had at home which also used a Logitech wheel mouse. I bought my own Logitech cordless wheel mouse for work, and installed the Logitech Mouseware,
[PEDA] Duplicate component designator detection
Hello, all, A strange thing just happened. I've been using Protel 99SE SP6 for several years, suddenly, duplicate component designators no longer are detected as an error in schematics! I can't imagine what I've done to break this. The check box for dup designators IS checked in the ERC setup box. It detects a number of different types of errors, but totally misses these! I closed the schematics, closed the DDB and reopened it, but same result. Has anyone seen this and know why it is failing to detect these errors? It fails to detect them even if the dups are on the same sheet, and you just check that sheet. Thanks, Jon * Tracking #: 221B9BADB8A8074B87924C0D945FC9479E47AF8B * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Duplicate component designator detection
OOps, sorry, guys - I WASN'T at SP6, this install was at SP2, as it came from the CD. I forgot to upgrade when I moved over to a new computer! Yikes! That's a pretty serious error to get out in the production CDs! Sorry for any testing anyone has done! Jon * Tracking #: E621C55871B4574B96C85792A40815A2D6ABBC02 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Auto-Pan patch was Speaking of Protel Bugs.
Where is there more detail about this fix? I tried moving both my Placement Tools and PCBtoolbar box into my work area. I also tried having my Windows Task Manager always on top in my work area. Each produced little or no change. Am I missing something, or is there detail somewhere else that I can be referred to? I assume we are talking about the problem when panning off the edge of the board and some buffer gets filled up producing a 'locked' condition where the buffer has to be emptied before your mouse movement is seen or responded to. I made several remarks how this could be remedied by Protel during a discussion several years ago. -Original Message- From: Brian Guralnick [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 11:55 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Auto-Pan patch was Speaking of Protel Bugs. For those of you who didn't figure it out: My auto-pan patch is a FULLY FUNCTIONAL insult to Protel. All I did was place 2 or more Always On Top windows over Protel's display screen. This is why some people who have ATI Matrox video cards, or any other problematic brands, do not experience the lockup of the mouse. IT'S BECAUSE THEY HAVE 1 OR MORE TOOL BARS OVER THE PROTEL PCB WINDOW. This is IDENTICAL as having my 2 dummy windows, in my pan patch, over your Protel screen. For years now, Protel has had issues with panning-mouse snagging, if a fully functional fix is to add a few small windows always on top of Protel's display refresh area, then something fundamentally weird with how Protel works within the system when panning the screen. Perhaps at Protel, the panning issue never comes up, because, they always test their software with the default tool applets floating over the PCB work area. I like to place my tool applets snapped along a vertical, or horizontal border. This does not count since Protel doesn't have to draw beneath these tool windows. Brian Guralnick [EMAIL PROTECTED] Voice (514) 624-4003 Fax (514) 624-3631 * Tracking #: B0C3290BC137F3479C4593B4F98A11750D3D536F * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Microstrip footprints
Protel understands nothing of microstrip mitered corners or microstrip components such as inductors. There are two parts to the problem, one concerning unconnected copper, and the other with shorts. The first, unconnected copper, is similar to a question raised here in this forum a while back regarding dual footprints for a crystal, where a library component needs to contain more copper than just a pad or hole, and in that particular instance, a pad and a hole connected together with copper. This is a problem in Protel, and the current Official soultion is to make whatever copper shapes that you need in your library component, and then check the box that says include copper when you are doing an update (syncronizing) from the Schematic to PCB. You can also do a form of this in the Netlist Manager menu, where you can also include the connected copper. This will solve most Netlist problems and DRC errors (except the short, for which see below), but the problem is that you have to remember to do this every time you update, and I hate to use the Netlist Manager functions because they scare me, having on occasion had it short nets together and lose others completely, forcing me to go back to do another update. The real problem is that you should be able to design copper areas within a library component and have those copper areas remain permanently attached, electrically (or netlist) speaking, to whatever electical pad of land it is connected to, but Protel simply isn't smart enough to do that in it's current incarnation. We can only hope it will show up in DXP Service Pack 3 or 4. If I were to call this a bug here in this form, I would instantly be trashed with reasons why it should not be so. So I will be content to state that it is simply a GLARING DESIGN OMISSION. A secondary issue that you will find when you do this is the short. This has been discussed at length here in this forum, and there really is no acceptable way aroud the DRC error problem here (although you can search the archives for the Lomax Short, which some claim to be at least a partial solution to the problem). Here again, the real problem is that you should be able to design copper areas within a library component and have those copper areas remain permanently attached, even if it constitutes a short, but once again Protel simply isn't smart enough to do that in it's current incarnation. Again, calling this a bug here in this form would simply instantly invoke responses. So here I will be content to simply to state that it is a SUPER GIANT ENORMOUSY GLARING DESIGN OMISSION OF UNPRECIDENTED MAGNITUDE AND PROPORTIONS. In answer to your current problem, I would simply design a library component for both PCB and Schematic for your miter, and simply add it to your schematics and also your pcb's and live with the DRC error. I think that you will find that this is what you will have to do with virtually any RF parts such as these miters in transmission lines or certain types of inductors that would constitute a short at DC. Respecting resistors, capacitors and transmission lines, you might find it useful to note that a 20 mil wide pad on an 0402 surface mount R or C mates perfectly with a 20 mil wide 50 ohm line derived with 12 mil of FR4 over a ground plane (assuming you can tolerate FR4 in your design). JaMi Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * - Original Message - From: Daniel Webster [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Protel EDA Forum' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 10:31 AM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Microstrip footprints Has anyone developed footprints for microstrip sections ? I have been trying to do this with pads set to certain length and widths. Mitered corners are particularly challenging to make as a library footprint. I have used two pads placed side by side at a 45 degree angle with the desired measurements. If I add fills to this footprint to complete the desired pattern then I will get DRC errors on my board once I load a netlist. It would be nice for this situation to have various pad shapes available (user defined), triangular, trapazoidal, etc. If anyone has found a solution, or knows where I can find microstrip footprints, please let me know. Thanks, Daniel * Tracking #: 302C7AEC4E668747A3931191787D4A780F50FC92 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Microstrip footprints
On 10:31 AM 23/07/2002 -0700, Daniel Webster said: Has anyone developed footprints for microstrip sections ? I have been trying to do this with pads set to certain length and widths. Mitered corners are particularly challenging to make as a library footprint. I have used two pads placed side by side at a 45 degree angle with the desired measurements. If I add fills to this footprint to complete the desired pattern then I will get DRC errors on my board once I load a netlist. It would be nice for this situation to have various pad shapes available (user defined), triangular, trapazoidal, etc. If anyone has found a solution, or knows where I can find microstrip footprints, please let me know. Thanks, Daniel Protel does not support complex pads as such. You can achieve what you want with combinations of pads and fills as you are doing. To remove the DRC errors you can use the Update Free Primitives from Component Pads command. This command says free primitives but it will actually update fills and tracks that are part of a footprint. This command is somewhat hidden: Design/Netlist Manager... Click on the Menu button and select Update Free Primitives from Component Pads. When you synchronise from a Sch to the PCB using Tools/Update PCB you can check the Assign Net to Connected Copper check box but I found this made the synch slower than otherwise and by more than the time taken to manually run the Update Free Primitives from Component Pads process - I did not do a careful check though. Ian Wilson * Tracking #: E15F96AD78499A488F1F631A9C6D0D87C69599AD * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.
- Original Message - From: Ian Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] snip I got tired of you complaining about it when you first joined the forum (and began slagging the software and those of us with different points of view) and showed you that you can have it any way you like. I don't use my server and it is not a bug fix in my mind. Not a bug fix? - semantics - not worth argueing over. Why can't you accept that Protel actually has some bugs, along with many many more features or whatever you want to call them that need to be fixed. Granted, you and some others may have actually grown accustomed to the weird behaviour of Protel when it zooms in and out, and actually like or prefer it, but that doesn't make it intuitive or natural. Disagree. having to re-find and refocus on a new location is unnecessary and unnatural. At least I think I could come up with a legitimate argument to that effect. Please stop imposing your preference on me and calling me non-intuitive or unnatural. Please recognise that it is just a simple little preference of yours. Reentering on zoom is *not* a natural law. snip Coz - it is better - at least quite a number of us think so and there is a basis for this preference. I may have a large screen or multiple screens. I prefer the location I am dealing with remain in the same spot on the screen so I do not have to find it again and refocus. It is all about speed. I, think that the other CAD packages have it wrong and protel has it right from a speed and human computer interaction (HCI) point of view. Having to find the edit point and re-focus is a slow down. I am an expert user - I want the package to be as fast as possible. This is one little example of how I think it is faster. Most of the time I am only paging up or down one step as I try to rout/place in a specific region. On the rarer occasions that zoom in or out a long way an occasional home is not issue for me. Please see my response to Tony on this issue. I think I make a very valid point that your arguement re re-find and refocus actually works against you, and I answer it there. You may like it, but it is non-standard to say the least. The key to progress is questioning the status quo. I am not interested in standards if there is a demonstrably better way of working. Standards have their place but generally for beginner users. Expert users are almost always more interested in shortcuts and speed-ups. Wait a minute here - Expert users want shortcuts and speed-ups, but a Mouse / Keyboard problem that trashes all of the shortcut keys and crashes the system 7 or 8 times a day requiring reboot isnt a bug? Give me a break! Where again do I go to get the little drivers / servers you wrote to fix the problem? The real problem here Ian is that I shouldn't have to ask you for your drivers / servers, Protel should fix the problem, or even considering that you like it the way it is, they should offer the standard zoom in and out for us abnormal folks who learned on everyone elses systems. You may not condescend to calling it a bug, but it is unquestionably a Protel quirk. Yep - an example of the programmers considering how to speed our work maybe? Or maybe a historical artefact. A quirk, yep. Bug, No. Just what does Protel have to do before you will call something a bug? Is this what happens when you write software applications down under when everyone at Microsoft in Belview Washington is at home in bed and cannot answer your technical questions about the software? Stupid comment. Actually not. Probably really closer to observable fact. It is painfully obvious that Protel / Altium in Australia is not having very much communication with Microsoft in Belville Washington. Snide comment? - yes - but it offers them an excuse. Again, please see my response to Tony, and specifically the part regarding the Microsoft Development Network. ..snip.. ..snip.. As for Sch PCB command commonality... maybe there are some things that differ - but they do have to reflect the differences in the actual entities. I would *hate* a package that tried to be so common across the various editors that it sacrificed functionality. But i do have a gripe about Sch and PCB differences - I want a J-C (Jump-Component) in Sch like in PCB. But that is about the only difference that I regularly hiccup on - oh, and right-click dragging in Sch. Aside ftom the right click issue and the fact that I think that some things are just plain implemented poorly, I gues that my real complaints here boil down to incompatability of, or in some cases, inavailability of, shortcut keys, as you point out. The real problem here is that Schematic as a whole truely does appear to be a bastard child married into the rest of the Client Design Explorer just to complete the package. Not quite in the marketing fluff department as you place the 3D Viewer, since schematic capture, netlist
Re: [PEDA] Using Parts Venders with Protel 99SE
Craig, I also would like to read this information. Can you send to me also? Bruce [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Larry G. Nelson Sr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 11:12 AM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Using Parts Venders with Protel 99SE I would like to see this information also if not too much trouble. [EMAIL PROTECTED] At 08:32 AM 7/12/02 -0700, you wrote: Craig, I will post some info directly to you. I have emails that I have exchanged with others on this topic and I will review and cut-paste from those initially. You can email me directly and I will address your specific questions if I can. I don't think that they should be reposted to the entire group because most of them have been posted before in one form or another. Sincerely, Brad Velander. Lead PCB Designer Norsat International Inc. Microwave Products Tel (604) 292-9089 (direct line) Fax (604) 292-9010 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.norsat.com -Original Message- From: Craig Elison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 8:08 AM To: Forum Protel Subject: [PEDA] Using Parts Venders with Protel 99SE I've been watching the Protel User Forum for some time now and haven't put out a request for help till now. I have found alot of good info on the forum. I have seen people talking about using Protel with Trilogy Design's Parts and Venders. I have purchased Parts Venders and would like to use the two together. However, to date I haven't been able to link them. I would like to maintain a single parts database in PV and load schematic part fields with data from the PV database. Is this possible? If so can anyone give me some info on how to set them up to do this. Thanks in advance, Craig Elison Lead Design Engineer TRI-C Design, Inc. * Tracking #: DACCCB8879164D49AFE41E70B191445F6E2F5D2D * Larry G. Nelson Sr. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.mchipguru.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.
On Wed, 24 Jul 2002 00:42, Tony Karavidas wrote: Well the French do have to be different, now don't they? ;) I spent my last vacation in France, right through Sept 11, so do go thinking I'm French-bashing. They were very kind during that mess. Tony Tony, The French are the same as every other race, there are good ones and bad ones, the bad ones get the attention and give the rest a bad name, most of the French ppl I know are kind. Regards, Kat. -Original Message- From: Katinka Mills [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 8:47 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs. On Tue, 23 Jul 2002 22:23, Bagotronix Tech Support wrote: Is this what happens when you write software applications down under when everyone at Microsoft in Belview Washington is at home in bed and cannot answer your technical questions about the software? el snippo rant on I also don't like the way dates are written in other parts of the world. I frequently see dates written as YY/MM/DD (Canadian) and as DD/MM/YY (British). Why can't we all agree on MM/DD/YY as THE one true correct standard? When you use dates in a spoken sentence, you say July 23, 2002. So why not write it that way numerically? rant off Lol Maybe because some contries actually teach the date that way and in the AU legal system it is written something like this On this 23rd day of July 2002 or even On this Twenty Third day of July Two Thousand and Two But I do not mind which way it is stored as long as the user can change it, to suit the local culture, the canadian way I believe is based on French where they say the year then the month then the day. Now, if we could just get everybody to drop that metric and 220V 50Hz crap... ;-) I think we should adopt a higher voltage system so we can use a thinner conductor ;o) and frequency should be in the khz so we can be driven insane by transfoemer hum (hmm if it was high enough it would be more like singing ;o) Regards, Kat. * Tracking #: 4C339601323F66438F9532E85A96B2F72C93E03A * -- -- -- K.A.Q. Electronics Software and Electronic Engineering Perth, Western Australia Phone +61 (0) 419 923 731 -- -- -- K.A.Q. Electronics Software and Electronic Engineering Perth, Western Australia Phone +61 (0) 419 923 731 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.
On yeah, here's another bug that has to do with the wheel mouse, but it has NOTHING to do with Protel. When I view a PDF file online, acrobat is conveniently loaded within IE6's window. If I scroll through the document after I know more than a few pages are loaded, I get a dialog information box that says There was a problem reading this document(14). If I use the right arrow in the acrobat toolbar, I never get this error. Scroll wheel = error. Again, maybe it's the mouse driver, maybe it's IE6, maybe it's the acrobat plug-in. Who knows? Same for the issue with Protel and the mouse. Don't just assume it's Protel's fault Jami. * Tracking #: 8BA5A9ED5076E9458D89564987BC0F3EC5E9960C * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
[PEDA] Fastest possible Protel system (LATEST)
Here is what I gathered so far: #1. Use only a consumer grade NVIDIA based GF3, or GF4. With Protel's auto-pan problem, which differs from video card to video card, I can't even be sure that the work station grade NVIDIA cards will not create any unforeseen auto-pan problems. #2. Use 'only' Win2K Professional. The earlier M$ os's are useless WinXP has been demonstrated to have some minor questionable issues with P99SE. #3. Dual processors seem to run fine with Protel, and may help the system run with a better consistent pace. #4. Avoid using Postscript printers, or, if have a postscript printer which can be used in a HP emulated laser printer mode, it will probably be to your advantage to run it in this mode with Protel. #5. Use Win2K's generic mouse driver instead of the fancy ones which come with most Logitech mice. #6. More ram, the better. 2GB with a 3GB swapfile should make the system run as smooth as possible. Remember, my PCB has around 10K nets. Any corrections? Any additions, clear obvious items which I may have missed? So far, I have yet to hear any real Protel speed issues comparing dual AMD VS dual Intel. Also, if I were to go with Intel, should I go DDR, or QDR. Remember, I did say fastest possible Protel system. Also, it should have the least possible problems. Brian Guralnick [EMAIL PROTECTED] Voice (514) 624-4003 Fax (514) 624-3631 * Tracking #: 8F1F3B6020E4674CBC9997FA43BC35230D5669AA * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.
Ivan, Writing dates as MM/DD/YY is the same as writing time as HH:SS:MM. It does not seem logical. There should be linear ascendence or descendence in the order of things, IMO. In Australia we have 240V/50Hz. Compared to your 120V/60Hz. We could discuss frequency, but one thing is sure, the current in your system is twice as high as in our system. That means your losses are four times as high. Whatever you do, you will always have higher electricity costs. It might not seem a big to you as an individual. On a national scale, it costs all of you a lot of dough. Metric system is based on a decimal numerical system, which is natural to humans. So we have reasons for what we are doing. What are your reasons for the things you do? You are just used to? Igor -Original Message- From: Bagotronix Tech Support [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, 24 July 2002 12:24 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs. Is this what happens when you write software applications down under when everyone at Microsoft in Belview Washington is at home in bed and cannot answer your technical questions about the software? Maybe the down under has something to do with it? ;-) From one episode of the Simpsons, when Lisa is helping Bart study for a geography test, he looks at a globe and says hey, I didn't know there's an island called Rand McNally in the Pacific Ocean. Lisa tells him that in Rand McNally, everyone walks on their noses, and hamburgers eat people. To which Bart replies Cool!. rant on I also don't like the way dates are written in other parts of the world. I frequently see dates written as YY/MM/DD (Canadian) and as DD/MM/YY (British). Why can't we all agree on MM/DD/YY as THE one true correct standard? When you use dates in a spoken sentence, you say July 23, 2002. So why not write it that way numerically? rant off Now, if we could just get everybody to drop that metric and 220V 50Hz crap... ;-) Best regards, Ivan Baggett Bagotronix Inc. website: www.bagotronix.com - Original Message - From: JaMi Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: JaMi Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 4:36 AM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs. * Tracking #: FEA6A5084AAA1B4FBBCEA608A0CD8D2459FF9143 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
