On Nov 23, 2014, at 2:35 AM, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote:
On 23 November 2014 at 17:14, Donald Stufft don...@stufft.io wrote:
On Nov 23, 2014, at 2:01 AM, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote:
Travis isn't the only CI system on the internet, and for pure Sphinx
documentation
On 11/22/2014 5:23 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Sun, Nov 23, 2014 at 8:03 AM, Ron Adam ron3...@gmail.com wrote:
Making comprehensions work more like generator expressions
would, IMO, imply making the same change to all for loops: having a
StopIteration raised by the body of the loop quietly
On 23 Nov 2014 18:11, Donald Stufft don...@stufft.io wrote:
On Nov 23, 2014, at 2:35 AM, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote:
In the absence of a proposal to change version control systems
(again), the lack of Mercurial hosting on GitHub makes it rather a
moot point. Given that we can
Nick Coghlan writes:
By contrast, proposals to switch from Mercurial to Git impose a
*massive* burden on contributors that don't already know git.
Let's not get carried away here. The *massive* burden is the moaning
from git-haters (is there a 12-step program for them?) Agreed,
learning
On Sun, 23 Nov 2014 22:58:02 +0900
Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.org wrote:
Nick Coghlan writes:
By contrast, proposals to switch from Mercurial to Git impose a
*massive* burden on contributors that don't already know git.
Let's not get carried away here. The *massive* burden is
On Sun, Nov 23, 2014, at 01:25, Nick Coghlan wrote:
On 23 November 2014 at 16:03, Donald Stufft don...@stufft.io wrote:
On Nov 23, 2014, at 12:59 AM, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote:
Note that if folks prefer Git, BitBucket supports both. I would object
strongly to unilaterally
On 11/22/2014 08:53 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
In order to save everyone's breath, I am *accepting* the proposal of PEP
479.
Excellent.
Chris, thank you for your time, effort, and thoroughness in championing this
PEP.
--
~Ethan~
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On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 2:11 AM, Ethan Furman et...@stoneleaf.us wrote:
On 11/22/2014 08:53 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
In order to save everyone's breath, I am *accepting* the proposal of PEP
479.
Excellent.
Chris, thank you for your time, effort, and thoroughness in championing this
On 23 November 2014 at 15:25, Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote:
Thank you, it's nice to have a successful one to counterbalance the
failure of PEP 463. (Which, incidentally, never actually got a
resolution. It's still showing up as 'Draft' status.)
I think it's worth pointing out that
On Sat, Nov 22, 2014 at 10:49 PM, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote:
More generally, I'm very, very disappointed to see folks so willing to
abandon fellow community members for the sake of following the crowd.
Perhaps we should all just abandon Python and learn Ruby or JavaScript
because
On Sun Nov 23 2014 at 6:18:46 AM Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote:
On 23 Nov 2014 18:11, Donald Stufft don...@stufft.io wrote:
On Nov 23, 2014, at 2:35 AM, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote:
In the absence of a proposal to change version control systems
(again), the lack
On Nov 23, 2014, at 11:55 AM, Brett Cannon br...@python.org wrote:
This high level of activity also takes place in spite of the fact that direct
corporate investment in paid contributions to the CPython runtime currently
don't really reflect the key role that CPython holds in the
On 11/22/2014 11:13 PM, Donald Stufft wrote:
On Nov 23, 2014, at 1:49 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
I took the git knowledge I acquired by necessity at Red Hat and
figured out how to apply it to hg. All the same features are there in
hg, they're just switched off by default (mainly because the core
On 11/22/2014 12:30 PM, Raymond Hettinger wrote:
Pre-PEP 479:
---
def middleware_generator(source_generator):
it = source_generator()
input_value = next(it)
output_value = do_something_interesting(input_value)
yield output_value
Post-PEP 479:
On 11/23/2014 08:55 AM, Brett Cannon wrote:
Sure, but I would never compare our infrastructure needs to Red Hat. =) You
also have to be conservative in order to minimize downtown and impact for
cost reasons. As an open source project we don't have those kinds of worry;
we just have to worry
I can agree with most of these points. Some more things to consider:
- Git is 20x faster than Hg (that's 99% of the reason I switched and hate using
Darcs)
- People attached to Hg can use Hg-Git; I've used it several times with nice
results. It can also be used to easily convert Hg repos to
On 11/23/2014 08:55 AM, Brett Cannon wrote:
Fourth, do any core developers feel strongly about not using GitHub?
Dous GitHub support hg? If not, I am strongly opposed.
--
~Ethan~
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___
Python-Dev
On Sun Nov 23 2014 at 1:06:18 PM Ethan Furman et...@stoneleaf.us wrote:
On 11/23/2014 08:55 AM, Brett Cannon wrote:
Sure, but I would never compare our infrastructure needs to Red Hat. =)
You
also have to be conservative in order to minimize downtown and impact for
cost reasons. As an
On Sun Nov 23 2014 at 1:08:58 PM Ethan Furman et...@stoneleaf.us wrote:
On 11/23/2014 08:55 AM, Brett Cannon wrote:
Fourth, do any core developers feel strongly about not using GitHub?
Dous GitHub support hg? If not, I am strongly opposed.
Depends on what you mean by support. If you
On 11/23/2014 04:08 AM, Terry Reedy wrote:
On 11/22/2014 5:23 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Sun, Nov 23, 2014 at 8:03 AM, Ron Adam ron3...@gmail.com wrote:
Making comprehensions work more like generator expressions
would, IMO, imply making the same change to all for loops: having a
On Sun Nov 23 2014 at 11:56:49 AM Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org wrote:
On Sat, Nov 22, 2014 at 10:49 PM, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote:
More generally, I'm very, very disappointed to see folks so willing to
abandon fellow community members for the sake of following the crowd.
On Sun Nov 23 2014 at 1:31:36 PM Brett Cannon br...@python.org wrote:
On Sun Nov 23 2014 at 11:56:49 AM Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org
wrote:
On Sat, Nov 22, 2014 at 10:49 PM, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com
wrote:
More generally, I'm very, very disappointed to see folks so willing to
On 11/23/2014 10:14 AM, Brett Cannon wrote:
On Sun Nov 23 2014 at 1:08:58 PM Ethan Furman et...@stoneleaf.us wrote:
Dous GitHub support hg? If not, I am strongly opposed.
Depends on what you mean by support. If you mean natively, then no. If
you mean I want more of a hg CLI then you can
On 11/23/2014 10:31 AM, Brett Cannon wrote:
If we want to test the complexity of moving something to GitHub then
probably the best repo to use is the peps one:
And if people want to test the impact of Bitbucket we could do it for
something like the HOWTOs as that too involves infrastructure
On Sun, Nov 23, 2014 at 1:41 PM, Ethan Furman et...@stoneleaf.us wrote:
On 11/23/2014 10:14 AM, Brett Cannon wrote:
On Sun Nov 23 2014 at 1:08:58 PM Ethan Furman et...@stoneleaf.us
wrote:
Dous GitHub support hg? If not, I am strongly opposed.
Depends on what you mean by support. If
On 11/23/2014 05:55 PM, Brett Cannon wrote:
I guess my question is who and what is going to be disrupted if we go with
Guido's suggestion of switching to GitHub for code hosting? Contributors won't
be disrupted at all since most people are more familiar with GitHub vs.
Bitbucket (how many
On 11/23/2014 07:03 PM, Ryan wrote:
I can agree with most of these points. Some more things to consider:
- Git is 20x faster than Hg (that's 99% of the reason I switched and hate
using
Darcs)
You won't get much traction with this argument around here. As long as there
aren't specific
Hi,
I have serious concerns about this PEP, and would ask you to reconsider it.
[ Very short summary:
Generators are not the problem. It is the naive use of next() in an
iterator that is the problem. (Note that all the examples involve calls
to next()).
Change next() rather than
On Nov 23, 2014, at 3:03 PM, Georg Brandl g.bra...@gmx.net wrote:
The next point is that there is no easy way to change the target branch of
a pull request (on github or bitbucket). People will usually make patches
against the master branch unless told differently explicitly, which means
On Sun Nov 23 2014 at 3:04:05 PM Georg Brandl g.bra...@gmx.net wrote:
On 11/23/2014 05:55 PM, Brett Cannon wrote:
I guess my question is who and what is going to be disrupted if we go
with
Guido's suggestion of switching to GitHub for code hosting? Contributors
won't
be disrupted at all
On 11/23/2014 09:38 PM, Donald Stufft wrote:
On Nov 23, 2014, at 3:03 PM, Georg Brandl g.bra...@gmx.net wrote:
The next point is that there is no easy way to change the target branch of
a pull request (on github or bitbucket). People will usually make patches
against the master branch
On 11/23/2014 09:42 PM, Brett Cannon wrote:
The more problematic category are pre-push hooks. We use them for
checking
and rejecting commits with
* disallowed branches
* non-conformant whitespace
* wrong EOL style
* multiple heads per named branch
As far
On Nov 23, 2014, at 4:08 PM, Georg Brandl g.bra...@gmx.net wrote:
On 11/23/2014 09:38 PM, Donald Stufft wrote:
On Nov 23, 2014, at 3:03 PM, Georg Brandl g.bra...@gmx.net wrote:
The next point is that there is no easy way to change the target branch of
a pull request (on github or
Georg Brandl g.bra...@gmx.net wrote:
On 11/23/2014 07:03 PM, Ryan wrote:
I can agree with most of these points. Some more things to consider:
- Git is 20x faster than Hg (that's 99% of the reason I switched and
hate using
Darcs)
You won't get much traction with this argument around here.
On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 5:28 AM, Ron Adam ron3...@gmail.com wrote:
With the passage of the PEP, it will change what is different about them
once it's in full effect. The stop hack won't work in both, and you may get
a RuntimeError in generator expressions where you would get StopIteration in
On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 7:18 AM, Mark Shannon m...@hotpy.org wrote:
Hi,
I have serious concerns about this PEP, and would ask you to reconsider it.
Hoping I'm not out of line in responding here, as PEP author. Some of
your concerns (eg 5 days is too short) are clearly for Guido, not
me, but
On 11/23/2014 3:18 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
Patches getting held up in the review queue for weeks or months is a
*huge* barrier to contribution, as it prevents the formation of the
positive feedback cycle where having a contribution accepted feels
good, so folks are more likely to want to
2014-11-22 7:44 GMT-05:00 Julian Taylor jtaylor.deb...@googlemail.com:
On 17.11.2014 23:09, Francis Giraldeau wrote:
Hi,
...
The PEP-418 is about performance counters, but there is no mention o
Anyway, I think we must change CPython to support tools such as perf.
Any thoughts?
On 11/23/2014 04:15 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 5:28 AM, Ron Adamron3...@gmail.com wrote:
With the passage of the PEP, it will change what is different about them
once it's in full effect. The stop hack won't work in both, and you may get
a RuntimeError in generator
On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 10:18 AM, Ron Adam ron3...@gmail.com wrote:
The stop hack won't work in either (currently it does work in
genexps), but you'd get a different exception type if you attempt it.
This is correct. It's broadly similar to this distinction:
{1:2,3:4}[50]
Traceback (most
On Sun, Nov 23, 2014 at 08:17:00AM -0800, Ethan Furman wrote:
While I am in favor of PEP 479, and I have to agree with Raymond that
this isn't pretty.
Currently, next() accepts an argument of what to return if the
iterator is empty. Can we enhance that in some way so that the
overall
On Sun Nov 23 2014 at 4:18:37 PM Georg Brandl g.bra...@gmx.net wrote:
On 11/23/2014 09:42 PM, Brett Cannon wrote:
[SNIP]
And I'm still in support no matter what of breaking out the HOWTOs
and the
tutorial into their own repos for easier updating (having to
update the Python
On 11/24/2014 12:21 AM, Brett Cannon wrote:
On Sun Nov 23 2014 at 4:18:37 PM Georg Brandl g.bra...@gmx.net
mailto:g.bra...@gmx.net wrote:
On 11/23/2014 09:42 PM, Brett Cannon wrote:
[SNIP]
And I'm still in support no matter what of breaking out the HOWTOs
and
On Sun, Nov 23, 2014 at 08:55:50AM -0800, Guido van Rossum wrote:
But I strongly believe that if we want to do the right thing for the
long term, we should switch to GitHub.
Encouraging a software, or social, monopoly is never the right thing for
the long term.
On Sun, Nov 23, 2014 at 5:57 PM, Steven D'Aprano st...@pearwood.info wrote:
On Sun, Nov 23, 2014 at 08:55:50AM -0800, Guido van Rossum wrote:
But I strongly believe that if we want to do the right thing for the
long term, we should switch to GitHub.
Encouraging a software, or social,
On 23/11/14 22:54, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 7:18 AM, Mark Shannon m...@hotpy.org wrote:
Hi,
I have serious concerns about this PEP, and would ask you to reconsider it.
Hoping I'm not out of line in responding here, as PEP author. Some of
your concerns (eg 5 days is too
On Nov 23, 2014, at 6:57 PM, Steven D'Aprano st...@pearwood.info wrote:
On Sun, Nov 23, 2014 at 08:55:50AM -0800, Guido van Rossum wrote:
But I strongly believe that if we want to do the right thing for the
long term, we should switch to GitHub.
Encouraging a software, or social,
On Sun, Nov 23, 2014 at 5:57 PM, Steven D'Aprano st...@pearwood.info
wrote:
On Sun, Nov 23, 2014 at 08:55:50AM -0800, Guido van Rossum wrote:
But I strongly believe that if we want to do the right thing for the
long term, we should switch to GitHub.
Encouraging a software, or social,
On Sun, Nov 23, 2014 at 2:38 PM, Donald Stufft don...@stufft.io wrote:
On Nov 23, 2014, at 3:03 PM, Georg Brandl g.bra...@gmx.net wrote:
The next point is that there is no easy way to change the target branch
of
a pull request (on github or bitbucket). People will usually make
patches
On Sun, Nov 23, 2014 at 06:08:07PM -0600, Brian Curtin wrote:
On Sun, Nov 23, 2014 at 5:57 PM, Steven D'Aprano st...@pearwood.info wrote:
I'm sure that we'll get *more* contributions, but will they be *better*
contributions?
I know that there are people who think that mailing lists are
On Sun, Nov 23, 2014 at 07:39:30PM -0500, Donald Stufft wrote:
I don’t think this is really all that big of a deal. If we want to
move off of Github doing so is easy. There are lots of (not nearly as
good as but probably still better than what we have now) OSS software
that gives you a github
Chris already responded; I'll top-post to clarify my position.
I acted quickly because too many people were expending too much energy
debating the issue without coming up with a different resolution, and I am
unhappy with the status quo.
Many people don't seem to see the difference between the
On 11/23/14, Mark Shannon m...@hotpy.org wrote:
[...]
You are grouping next() and it.__next__() together, but they are different.
I think we agree that the __next__() method is part of the iterator
protocol and should raise StopIteration.
There is no fundamental reason why next(), the
On Nov 23, 2014, at 04:49 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
Moving from self-hosted Mercurial repos to externally hosted Mercurial
repos is a low risk change. It reduces maintenance overhead and lowers
barriers to external contribution, both without alienating existing
contributors by forcing them to
On Nov 23, 2014, at 08:55 AM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
- Moving from Hg to Git is a fair amount of one-time work
For anyone seriously interested in this, even experimentally, I would highly
suggest looking at Eric Raymond's reposurgeon code. You can google it or find
it covered in the vast
On Nov 23, 2014, at 03:59 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
The learning curve on git is still awful
What I find so ironic is that git's model is beautifully simple, but its cli
is abysmal, and its manpages are less than helpful. git-push(1) is over 650
lines and it's nearly impossible to dig out the
Hi David,
I noticed you run the Builder x86 Ubuntu Shared buildbot. It seems
it's running a very old version of Ubuntu. Is there any chance of
getting that updated?
Regards,
Benjamin
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git-push(1) is over 650 lines and it's nearly
impossible to dig out the most important
bits.
I use git daily at work. I try to use it in the most simple way possible.
My frustration with the man pages got to the point where I basically use
Google to ask my questions, then bookmark the
On Sunday, November 23, 2014, Skip Montanaro skip.montan...@gmail.com
wrote:
git-push(1) is over 650 lines and it's nearly
impossible to dig out the most important
bits.
I use git daily at work. I try to use it in the most simple way possible.
My frustration with the man pages got to the
On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 2:42 PM, Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org wrote:
Then there's this. http://git-man-page-generator.lokaltog.net/
Wow scarily accurate.
http://git-man-page-generator.lokaltog.net/#2d1a13476a5f32c4db27fd7aa89a84f3
Anything to do with git submodules is virtually
Yeah, it definitely needs it. Historically it was intentional as my own
servers were all on 8.04, but the last of those moved 12.04 last year.
I think there's already a 12.04 buildbot, so perhaps 14.04 would be
better? I do prefer sticking with an LTS.
It'll need to move to 64-bit given the
Brett Cannon writes:
How do other projects tend to manage their bugfix vs. in-dev branches?
Emacs uses a similar workflow to Python's current one, AIUI:
1. When feasible, developer decides the lowest applicable branch (in
Emacs there are only two), commits and pushes there.
2. When
On 24 November 2014 at 02:55, Brett Cannon br...@python.org wrote:
On Sun Nov 23 2014 at 6:18:46 AM Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote:
Those features are readily accessible without changing the underlying
version control system (whether self-hosted through Kallithea or externally
hosted
On 24 November 2014 at 06:42, Brett Cannon br...@python.org wrote:
On Sun Nov 23 2014 at 3:04:05 PM Georg Brandl g.bra...@gmx.net wrote:
As for typo fixes, the world does not end when some typos aren't fixed.
Anyway, for the docs we have an explicit offer to send anything, patch or
just
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