Really no different. I doubt you will find longitudinal bracing listed for
cpvc. You will have to put a short branch (same size as main) perpendicular
to the main and brace that with a lateral brace to act as your longitudinal
brace on the main.
From: Sprinklerforum
Do you have a mentor working with you? If you really have no idea, I would
suggest you find a local mentor to help you. But in the meantime, go drive to
the nearest site and check out their riser. The configurations can vary per
geographical region.
From: Sprinklerforum
I have to agree with Matt on this. Give the assessment of what is required to
work and meet the requirements of the standards and codes. Sadly, you can
never take liability out of the question. If you know it is wrong, you have to
be willing to sleep with that decision every night because
al, that is
jurisdiction specific. We have PE on staff and seal in jurisdictions that
require.
This has just been something that has been popping up more and more. It was
very rare in the past. We maybe calculated 1:100. Now I am seeing 3:5
requiring it for the jurisdictions I deal with.
Travi
uiring it for the jurisdictions I deal with.
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
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.
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
3356 E Vallejo Ct
Gilbert, AZ 85298
480-505-9271
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Got it already. Thanks to everyone!!
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org]
On Behalf Of MFP Design, LLC
Sent: Friday, September 8, 2017 10:32 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: Marriott Module 14
Does anyone have a copy of the 2015
I have been required to have the “flutes” packed with mineral wool in order to
use panel construction in circumstances like you indicate.
We have used beam and girder without the packing when the spacing permits.
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
3356 E Vallejo Ct
Gilbert, AZ 85298
returned
hundred fold every year with things I have learned and gained as an AFSA
member. Join up today!!
Ok.. back to your regularly scheduled programming…
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
3356 E Vallejo Ct
Gilbert, AZ 85298
480-505-9271
fax: 866-430-6107
<mailto:email
No…not a shot at anyone. Lol!! Just the usual plug for membership. I’m sure
you realize the crazy value we get as design members.
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On
Behalf Of John Paulsen
Sent: Wednesday, October 4, 2017 3:14 PM
To:
Of MFP Design, LLC
Sent: Wednesday, October 4, 2017 6:15 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>
Subject: RE: Schedule 10 vs Schedule 40 pipe
No…not a shot at anyone. Lol!! Just the usual plug for membership. I’m sure
you realize the
teaching classes, it is still worth it.
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
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have to be listed QR. They have to be FR.
Basically, they need a 3mm bulb.
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
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<htt
Yes. When the storage got brought into 13, it used to be Curve 1-5 which
happened to align with the classic hazard curves.
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On
Behalf Of Mark Sornsin [FAR]
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2017 11:31 AM
To:
Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
3356 E Vallejo Ct
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480-505-9271
fax: 866-430-6107
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gn.com%2F=02%7C01%7C%7C1121d49f9e6b4cf248f108d
@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: Re: Occupant load
That's new and interesting and not required in 13. No, I haven't heard of that
one.
On Oct 23, 2017 8:42 PM, "MFP Design, LLC" <tm...@mfpdesign.com
<mailto:tm...@mfpdesign.com> > wrote:
Has anyone had to
Is this a solid mezzanine? I guess that I see adjacent in this case meaning
at the same level.. basically you cant have ESFR sprinklers adjacent to SR
sprinklers at the same roof level.
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
3356 E Vallejo Ct
Gilbert, AZ 85298
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fax: 866-430
To solve such issues, I purchase the standards in PDF format. I then store
them in a dropbox folder so I can access any time from the phone or
computer. Maybe that will help you. It doesn't answer your direct
question, but does offer an alternative.
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
No, you don’t ignore the obstruction. I agree with that. I was just pointing
out that SxL is not always the same for spacing and calculations.
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
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<mailto:email:tm...@mfpdesign.
Not necessarily. Remember the generic phrase: Space on the slope, calc on the
flat. So, you may be at 130 sq ft on the slope, but if it translates to 110 sq
ft on the flat, then you calc for 110 sq ft.
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On
Behalf
knowing as the EOR. However, having the backing of the AFSA to our
position, the EOR backed off of his incorrect interpretations and is going
to be working on re-designing the issue in question.
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
3356 E Vallejo Ct
Gilbert, AZ 85298
480-505-9271
fax: 866-430
inion
only, as a member of the NFPA 13 Technical Committee, and do not represent an
official interpretation of the NFPA 13 standard.
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On
Behalf Of MFP Design, LLC
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2017 10:40 AM
To: sprinklerforum
I’ve had some large demand systems….5000 gpm and more. They always had
specified (3) 2500 gpm pumps for the 5000 gpm systems. I had one 9000 gpm
system that had (4) 3000 gpm pumps. The idea was that if any one pump was
done, the system would still be maintained with adequate pumping
to use 4”,
but you will still need 4 inlets. I think that seems quite odd and would
probably try to run it as 6” as a good practice. However, I can’t see anything
requiring the size of the piping to be any minimum.
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
3356 E Vallejo Ct
Gilbert, AZ 85298
Standpipe only has to be Automatic for high rise, unless the area has
adopted an amended code requiring it to be automatic.
So, the question still sits, is it a high rise building? If not, then is
there the option to make it manual wet?
From: Sprinklerforum
Definitely don't let the past description or even system get in the way. It
is what it is. If the original is wrong, the owner can go back and fix it.
But there is no reason to continue an error just because it was done that
way in the past. Those are the most dangerous words in this industry:
desires.
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
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they communicate
directly with the main attic. However, I can't find anything that would
permit them to be omitted.
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MFP Design, LLC
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, if there is an underground
leak, you don’t have to take out the entire building.
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MFP Design, LLC
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Still only half correct.
I still wait for the day when the plan is a dot on a map and says sprinkler
guy to provide system and all of building.
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
3356 E Vallejo Ct
Gilbert, AZ 85298
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email:tm...@mfpdesign.com
http
h flow 1500 and
pressure of 100.
I hope that clears it up.
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
3356 E Vallejo Ct
Gilbert, AZ 85298
480-505-9271
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as simple of a calc as you can get if it is a dead end main.
If you need something for your computer software, just go with flow 1500 and
pressure of 100.
I hope that clears it up.
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
3356 E Vallejo Ct
Gilbert, AZ 85298
480-505-9271
fax: 866-430-6107
o does the flow need to be
increased to 2000 do to there being two hydrants?
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org]
On Behalf Of MFP Design, LLC
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2017 4:04 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
<mailto:sprin
You need to know the method of determining fire flow in your jurisdiction.
Once you know that, determine the fire flow and the number of hydrants req'd
to be used to get that flow.
Then, just simple hazen Williams formulae. You will have starting flow and
pressure. Plug and chug to prove it.
entral Ave.
Phoenix, AZ 85024
Direct: 623.580.7820
Cell: 602.763.4736
<mailto:kmontgom...@aerofire.com> kmontgom...@aerofire.com
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org]
On Behalf Of MFP Design, LLC
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2017 1:30 PM
To
; kmontgom...@aerofire.com
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org]
On Behalf Of MFP Design, LLC
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2017 1:30 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>
Subject: [EXTERNAL
When you have mixed criteria areas, you need to extend the higher density into
the lower density area for 15’. Reference NFPA 13: 12.3 for that requirement.
Also, don’t forget the issue of complying with 23.4.4.1.1.4.
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
3356 E Vallejo Ct
Gilbert, AZ
It is from the time the head opens as the way I understand it and had to
meet requirements of.
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MFP Design, LLC
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<htt
It sounds like you are indicating you want to use a "brake tank." As long as
you put an automatic fill valve on the tank, you can use the city supply to
help reduce the quantity of stored water. You may want to check NFPA 22 for
this.
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
3356 E
Tell him they are UL Listed for use in fire sprinkler systems. He needs to
prove that they can't be used. Call Victaulic. I would imagine they can
get you something.
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
3356 E Vallejo Ct
Gilbert, AZ 85298
480-505-9271
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<mailto:email
My understanding is the same as Don stated. It is not skipping or cold
soldering. It is too many sprinklers opening. The baffle or curtain will do
little, if anything, to alleviate that.
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
3356 E Vallejo Ct
Gilbert, AZ 85298
480-505-9271
fax: 866-430
What was the final resolution??
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
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for storage
sprinklers. So, even though the 11.2 is just a standard spray sprinkler,
you must adhere to all of the storage sprinkler obstruction and spacing
criteria of the appropriate FM Datasheet.
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
3356 E Vallejo Ct
Gilbert, AZ 85298
480-505-9271
fax: 866-430
ESFR are not spray sprinklers and can not be interchanged to meet a
density/area curve.
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
3356 E Vallejo Ct
Gilbert, AZ 85298
480-505-9271
fax: 866-430-6107
<mailto:email:tm...@mfpdesign.com> email:tm...@mfpdesign.com
<htt
I always try to contact the FM reviewer and ask for the table where they are
getting the info in their datasheets. I then put that table on the drawings so
there is no question as to where the criteria was derived.
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
3356 E Vallejo Ct
Gilbert, AZ 85298
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Yes. That is exactly it.
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MFP Design, LLC
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Gilbert, AZ 85298
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gn.
, SET
MFP Design, LLC
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Matt:
I think Craig is dealing with some one that thinks if the calcs say you only
“need” 40 psi at the base of riser, then that is all that the water supply will
deliver.
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
3356 E Vallejo Ct
Gilbert, AZ 85298
480-505-9271
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We all make mistakes and things happen. But, there does appear to be a huge
gap in understanding some times.
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
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minimums. You can run supply calcs to determine what pressures and
flows you can expect with the full water supply discharging.
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MFP Design, LLC
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This is all steel construction. The exterior projection overhang is steel
construction and the new add on to the clubhouse that this projects from is
also steel construction.
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
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ways done it. I just see the reasoning behind the question. Does the
answer change if you have a girder instead of a beam? Why or why not?
Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night!
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
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sprinklers to a line.
It is generally more costly to add extra lines.
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
3356 E Vallejo Ct
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them to K4.2 or 2.8
if you are in a light hazard space.
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
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Make sure you can get a sleeve/caulk combo to give the 3 hour rating. That
may be a challenge to find.
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MFP Design, LLC
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<htt
www.nfpa.org <http://www.nfpa.org>
They accept many different forms of payment.
Travis Mack, SET
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&
Dig into the areas of 13 about that. I don’t have the reference off hand, but
you have provisions to use sprinklers in different orientations for the exhaust
duct. So, just put a pendent sprinkler in the horizontal position.
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
3356 E Vallejo Ct
Gilbert
not be able to deliver the needed water, but that is something
different.
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
3356 E Vallejo Ct
Gilbert, AZ 85298
480-505-9271
fax: 866-430-6107
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<https://na01.safelinks.protection.ou
I didn't even read that. NFPA 13 uses nominal k-factors. There is no
difference in a K17 and K16.8. Look in Chapter 6. You will see anything
with a range of 16.0-17.6 is to be calculated at k16.8
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
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I believe you are going to be out of luck. As far as I know, Tyco is the
only one that makes one.
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MFP Design, LLC
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<htt
, SET
MFP Design, LLC
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3.
Can you justify the sleeping areas are the "dwelling units" and the
corridors / kitchens / living rooms are the areas "outside the dwelling
unit" so that you can apply 13R?
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
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4
sprinkler based on calculations
* Edition of NFPA 13
We have to provide a copy of this sign on our plans.
Additionally, we have to provide a copy of the General Information Sign on
the plans. Things in CA get more and more unusual every year.
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
than Bitcoin in 2017.
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that you have to use a
listed SR K5.6 sprinkler in the space.
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I think the issue is that ESFR sprinklers can’t be less than 8’.
You can do <6’ with SSU/P sprinklers as the standard references baffles in
those instances. ESFR is a different animal.
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
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from 16.2.1.4.3.1 to the demand calculations for the
ceiling sprinklers and balance to
the higher of the two pressure demands to ensure that the water supply can
handle the simultaneous
operation of ceiling and in-rack sprinklers."
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
3356 E Vallejo Ct
Gilbert
Maybe some one could do some model simulation on the effects of the fans,
clearances ≤36”, sprinkler activation time and maybe a few other variables. I
don’t know how one models the obstructions of the fan blades, but it may be
possible.
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
3356 E Vallejo
vis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
3356 E Vallejo Ct
Gilbert, AZ 85298
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Yes. I checked. There is nothing like that.
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
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I can’t tell you how many times I’ve wanted to send a bill to a plan reviewer
titled “Education Expenses”
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MFP Design, LLC
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ion. This guy is a “senior fire protection
consultant” doing the review. There have been several comments along these
lines.
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MFP Design, LLC
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.
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MFP Design, LLC
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Don't forget to apply NFPA 13: (2016) 23.4.4.2.4 and 23.4.4.2.5. That can
make some of these smaller areas be a bit of an issue. The same thing is
also in the 2013 edition as well. It is 23.4.4.1.1.4 and 23.4.4.1.1.5 in
the 2013 edition.
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
3356 E Vallejo Ct
way lately.
Doing that has differing slopes and the lines would intersect. The
theoretical reduction could actually have a higher pressure at a given flow
with #2 since it is a flatter curve.
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
3356 E Vallejo Ct
Gilbert, AZ 85298
480-505-9271
fax: 866-430
There are many ways to address this. Some AHJs want us to reduce the curve off
the top. Others want us to keep it as measured and maintain a minimum margin.
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
3356 E Vallejo Ct
Gilbert, AZ 85298
480-505-9271
fax: 866-430-6107
<mailto:email
In this example… Apply a 10% reduction to the measured flow test results.
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
3356 E Vallejo Ct
Gilbert, AZ 85298
480-505-9271
fax: 866-430-6107
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<htt
Yes. It would be at the horizon for sure
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
3356 E Vallejo Ct
Gilbert, AZ 85298
480-505-9271
fax: 866-430-6107
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Your description of accessible by more than one dwelling unit is exactly the
way I view it. But, I got shot down by the AHJ. Their response was: “What if
some one propped open a door?”
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
3356 E Vallejo Ct
Gilbert, AZ 85298
480-505-9271
fax: 866-430
to the floor
joists. We can be up in the joist space running parallel.
So, CPVC or steel? What is the forum consensus?
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
3356 E Vallejo Ct
Gilbert, AZ 85298
480-505-9271
fax: 866-430-6107
<mailto:email:tm...@mfpdesign.com> email:tm...@mfpdesi
Those are useless. There is no criteria because they are not permitted. If
you need a water shield, use a listed sprinkler with water shield. If you need
a “heat collector”, you are out of luck.
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
3356 E Vallejo Ct
Gilbert, AZ 85298
480-505-9271
fax
MFP Design, LLC
3356 E Vallejo Ct
Gilbert, AZ 85298
480-505-9271
fax: 866-430-6107
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understanding.
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
3356 E Vallejo Ct
Gilbert, AZ 85298
480-505-9271
fax: 866-430-6107
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You just have to register
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
3356 E Vallejo Ct
Gilbert, AZ 85298
480-505-9271
fax: 866-430-6107
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It is just a short “main” with a size on size welded outlet. Don’t we do that
all the time?
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
3356 E Vallejo Ct
Gilbert, AZ 85298
480-505-9271
fax: 866-430-6107
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Has anyone come across the duct sox and ESFR protection? How do you handle
these? I intend to put a sprinkler under the duct as normally required.
But, these somewhat vanish when the HVAC system is off.
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
3356 E Vallejo Ct
Gilbert, AZ 85298
480-505-9271
Do you run a separate standpipe system for the hose valves, or come off the
overhead?
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
3356 E Vallejo Ct
Gilbert, AZ 85298
480-505-9271
fax: 866-430-6107
email:tm...@mfpdesign.com
http://www.mfpdesign.com
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off the overhead
system and just add 50 gpm per hose valve for your inside hose requirements?
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
3356 E Vallejo Ct
Gilbert, AZ 85298
480-505-9271
fax: 866-430-6107
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for
area of sprinkler in 13R. So, you may have to choose the larger k factor
residential sprinklers. We typically do a 4.9k pendent, but you may have to
go to the larger ones depending on your requirements.
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
3356 E Vallejo Ct
Gilbert, AZ 85298
480-505-9271
fax
Yes. If you are in 9.3, you are doing seismic bracing. If you are Seismic
Design Cat A or B, typically you are not going to do seismic and 9.3 with
it's sub chapters would not apply.
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
3356 E Vallejo Ct
Gilbert, AZ 85298
480-505-9271
fax: 866-430-6107
ce with 8.15.1.2.6. It just seemed
strange that there wouldn't be some other exception to eliminate sprinklers
in that space.
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
3356 E Vallejo Ct
Gilbert, AZ 85298
480-505-9271
fax: 866-430-6107
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tion."
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
3356 E Vallejo Ct
Gilbert, AZ 85298
480-505-9271
fax: 866-430-6107
email:tm...@mfpdesign.com
http://www.mfpdesign.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692
Send large files to us via: https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDes
It’s not required but is permitted.
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
3356 E Vallejo Ct
Gilbert, AZ 85298
480-505-9271
fax: 866-430-6107
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Yes. It is across the joist. 5' is a minimum. You can exceed it as long
as your spacing limits are adhered to. Maybe 5' from one side and 6' from
another to get away from the hip?
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
3356 E Vallejo Ct
Gilbert, AZ 85298
480-505-9271
fax: 866-430-6107
.
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
3356 E Vallejo Ct
Gilbert, AZ 85298
480-505-9271
fax: 866-430-6107
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for the drain
lines. It is highly impractical from a cost perspective.
Check in A3.2.1 in the 2016 NFPA 13 handbook if you have it.
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
3356 E Vallejo Ct
Gilbert, AZ 85298
480-505-9271
fax: 866-430-6107
<mailto:email:tm...@mfpdesign.com> email:tm...@mfpdesi
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