Re: The Talk2 List Fw: [access] WFA User Protest
hmmm do it anyway. Ok I can't prommise any donations but I am part admin of a podcast site, I can submit material for inclusion, I can probably promote the project heck could even get my own section basedon that project if I wished at least I think I can. At 06:32 a.m. 3/03/2010, you wrote: >this is something I've been pondering for the last 2 weeks after a >conversation with onj >the Asterisk pbx uses a bounty system to get stuff done. So, basically you >take donations for 3-9 months, then offer the money to developers to complete >the project. and the project that I invision is an open source product based >on google maps that's multi plat form. pc, and winmo/symbian. WX widgits >are availible for all our major platforms. > >In theory this isnt hard to setup but I can smell the headaches from a >thousand miles away. People want donations back, people dont like the finished >product etc. I'm not sure I want the project but It does leave me tempted to >do it. > >On 3/2/2010 8:40 AM, Brandon Hicks wrote: >block quote >That would be the best, and if I had the knowledge I'd do it or talk to them >about it. Hopefully someone will, because Loadstone could be good if it just >streamlined the process of getting maps and POIs and got access to the better >maps from Google. > > > > >Did you miss a message? Well, don't. >http://www.mail-archive.com/talk2%40andrelouis.com/ >has it for you. Never miss a Talk2 message again. Did you miss a message? Well, don't. http://www.mail-archive.com/talk2%40andrelouis.com/ has it for you. Never miss a Talk2 message again.
Re: The Talk2 List Fw: [access] WFA User Protest
yeah it did other things to. At 06:11 a.m. 3/03/2010, you wrote: >Here here. I've saved up and purchased all of my assistive tech over the >years. No group of people is entitled to things for free just because of what >may be wrong with them. Remember that virus that disabled all of the pirated >copies of JAWS a couple years ago for Christmas? I'd really like to shake the >hand of whoever put that crack together. I still chuckle about it when the >incident comes to mind. > >Steve > > >On 3/2/2010 10:21 AM, Amanda Rush wrote: >>Thanks for the compliment Doug. Now let me open up another can of worms. >>I'm not necessarily going out of my way to piss people off, but if it >>happens, oh well. >> >>I think that, to a large extent, a lot of blind people think they're >>entitled to accessibility from the private sector, and not only that, but >>entitled to it for free. Yes, it would be nice if we lived in a perfectly >>accessible world, where everything worked and we didn't have to pay extra >>or put in any extra work. But we don't. And at least in the US, (I live in >>the US so I can't comment on the UK or other countries), the ADA, which >>has very few teeth in itself, doesn't apply to the private sector, unless >>they're receiving government funding. And even then, there's the >>"reasonable accommodation" clause. So we really are, in most cases, better >>off hacking our own solutions together, and maybe sharing them with each >>other so there's less re-inventing of the wheel. Because trust me, if I >>were to, say, call FS and tell them that all this Red Hat crap I'm dealing >>with is almost inaccessible, and I want better support for terminal >>emulators, they're pretty much going to tell me to fuck myself because >>there's not enough of a market share for that sort of thing, and same goes >>for virtual machines and all these other nice new technologies they don't >>officially support. >> >> >> >>-Original Message- >>From: mai...@andrelouis.com [mailto:mai...@andrelouis.com] On Behalf Of >>Doug Langley >>Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 10:12 >>To: talk2 >>Subject: Re: The Talk2 List Fw: [access] WFA User Protest >> >>Also, the WFA concept of free life time upgrades also put a nail in its >>coffin. Wheres the insentive for Vodaphone to develop a program which >>wont bring them any sort of positive cash flow? This is a gps program >>and it needs updated data on a regular basis and wheres the insentive >>for vodaphone to do *anything* that wont bring them at least the ability >>to break even? First and formost its about money and 777 blind people >>that signed a petition who arent obligated (by the license agreement) to >>ever give them another penny arent going to be insentive enough to do >>anything about it. >> >> >>On 3/2/2010 7:03 AM, Doug Langley wrote: >> >>>I'm glad to see someone else with a brain. No one ever takes these >>>internet petitions seriously. I signed it but only because it can only >>>help more than hurt. That being said, if people spent as much time >>>working on a new solution instead of trying to save an old dieing one >>>we would probably all be better off. This is vodaphone. they hear >>>from more people in a single hour than they will in this hole >>>petition. And all this petition is doing is asking for a reason why. >>>so we can spend 3 months getting 778 signatures so they can say, >>>"because it didnt make business sense." Thank you for contacting >>>vodaphone we hope we can service you in the future. >>> >>>On 3/2/2010 6:57 AM, Amanda Rush wrote: >>> >>>>K this is a record. I was turned off by about the second line of this >>>>guy's message. I totally get being angry about accessibility or the >>>> >>lack >> >>>>thereof, but begging for signatures is like begging for charity. >>>> >>Neither >> >>>>one works very well, and getting angry with the people you're trying to >>>>get signatures/charity from isn't a good thing either. Also, IMO, (and >>>>it's probably only my opinion, and we know what those are like, but >>>> >>this >> >>>>is the crux of the entire accessibility fight), companies like this one >>>>and every other one ignore these sorts of petitions because, even if >>>>every >>>>single blind user were to c
Re: The Talk2 List Fw: [access] WFA User Protest
thats a point actually my brother uses google maps all the time. At 05:33 a.m. 3/03/2010, you wrote: >Has anyone approached loadstone about adding the googlemaps/earth api's? >street view and directions are availible in many countrys. you add the >loadstone user POIS to the google maps api and poi's and you actually have >something going. google maps is the best source for free maps. if people dont >want to pay mobile geo prices then implement google maps in to something like >loadstone or build a completely open source cross platform app in either >python or java and talk to the appropriate screen reader API's. > > >On 3/2/2010 8:27 AM, Brandon Hicks wrote: >>Not to mention most of those people aren't in countries Vodaphone serve. So >>there's another lack of insentive. Now if you had 700 blinks who were going >>to break contracts with them over it they might think again but as it is >>that's not going to happen. Vodaphone have nothing to gain and everything to >>lose by doing something about this, but the blinks feel entitled. Instead of >>putting the tallent to work for Loadstone they're just bitching. Typical. >> >>Brandon >> >>Doug Langley wrote: >>>Also, the WFA concept of free life time upgrades also put a nail in its >>>coffin. Wheres the insentive for Vodaphone to develop a program which wont >>>bring them any sort of positive cash flow? This is a gps program and it >>>needs updated data on a regular basis and wheres the insentive for vodaphone >>>to do *anything* that wont bring them at least the ability to break even? >>>First and formost its about money and 777 blind people that signed a >>>petition who arent obligated (by the license agreement) to ever give them >>>another penny arent going to be insentive enough to do anything about it. >>> >>> >>>On 3/2/2010 7:03 AM, Doug Langley wrote: >>>>I'm glad to see someone else with a brain. No one ever takes these internet >>>>petitions seriously. I signed it but only because it can only help more >>>>than hurt. That being said, if people spent as much time working on a new >>>>solution instead of trying to save an old dieing one we would probably all >>>>be better off. This is vodaphone. they hear from more people in a single >>>>hour than they will in this hole petition. And all this petition is doing >>>>is asking for a reason why. so we can spend 3 months getting 778 signatures >>>>so they can say, "because it didnt make business sense." Thank you for >>>>contacting vodaphone we hope we can service you in the future. >>>> >>>>On 3/2/2010 6:57 AM, Amanda Rush wrote: >>>>>K this is a record. I was turned off by about the second line of this >>>>>guy's message. I totally get being angry about accessibility or the lack >>>>>thereof, but begging for signatures is like begging for charity. Neither >>>>>one works very well, and getting angry with the people you're trying to >>>>>get signatures/charity from isn't a good thing either. Also, IMO, (and >>>>>it's probably only my opinion, and we know what those are like, but this >>>>>is the crux of the entire accessibility fight), companies like this one >>>>>and every other one ignore these sorts of petitions because, even if every >>>>>single blind user were to call their bluff, we're not a big enough of >>>>>their market to matter as far as sales or whatever. And in the case of the >>>>>FS petition, we can all bitch and whine till we're out of breath, but the >>>>>fact is that 90% of their clientel is government contracts. So they can >>>>>pretty much do whatever, and the other AT companies will eventually go >>>>>along or go out of business, and so there's no real insentive for FS to do >>>>>anything positive. Note: I'm not a huge FS fan. At all. So I hope no one >>>>>takes this as rooting for them. >>>>> >>>>>And wow, DJ Patty, haven't heard from you in *ages. I was wondering what >>>>>had happened to you. Good to see you're still around. >>>>> >>>>>Amanda >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>-Original Message- >>>>>From: mai...@andrelouis.com [mailto:mai...@andrelouis.com] On Behalf Of Dj >>>>>Paddy >>>>>Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 17:35 >&g
Re: The Talk2 List Fw: [access] WFA User Protest
this is something I've been pondering for the last 2 weeks after a conversation with onj the Asterisk pbx uses a bounty system to get stuff done. So, basically you take donations for 3-9 months, then offer the money to developers to complete the project. and the project that I invision is an open source product based on google maps that's multi plat form. pc, and winmo/symbian. WX widgits are availible for all our major platforms. In theory this isnt hard to setup but I can smell the headaches from a thousand miles away. People want donations back, people dont like the finished product etc. I'm not sure I want the project but It does leave me tempted to do it. On 3/2/2010 8:40 AM, Brandon Hicks wrote: block quote That would be the best, and if I had the knowledge I'd do it or talk to them about it. Hopefully someone will, because Loadstone could be good if it just streamlined the process of getting maps and POIs and got access to the better maps from Google. Did you miss a message? Well, don't. http://www.mail-archive.com/talk2%40andrelouis.com/ has it for you. Never miss a Talk2 message again.
Re: The Talk2 List Fw: [access] WFA User Protest
I hear ya there Steve. I didn't admittedly buy my screenreader, but nore did I crack it. Being on the beta team has it's advantages and if I had the money and a lot left over, I'd gladly buy it because I like it. I've successfully stired up a can of worms with this post though, just as I intended. Neil got the wrong attitude, but he's trying. Even if he achieves nothing at all, he's at least doing something. Those blind tards that want something for nothing well, they have no right to complain. Doug said on the petition, some people are demanding their money back. Like that's gonna happen. And as I said to him, in 2001 I payed £130 for a 45 gig hard drive. That drive is now very dead, and in a bin somewhere. Should I run to PC world demanding my money back because it's still not working? Like hell I should! Yet, blind people think they're entitled. Entitled to shit! Should be greatful they got anything at all. From: Stephen Clower on Tuesday, March 02, 2010 5:11 PM Here here. I've saved up and purchased all of my assistive tech over the years. No group of people is entitled to things for free just because of what may be wrong with them. Remember that virus that disabled all of the pirated copies of JAWS a couple years ago for Christmas? I'd really like to shake the hand of whoever put that crack together. I still chuckle about it when the incident comes to mind. Steve On 3/2/2010 10:21 AM, Amanda Rush wrote: Thanks for the compliment Doug. Now let me open up another can of worms. I'm not necessarily going out of my way to piss people off, but if it happens, oh well. I think that, to a large extent, a lot of blind people think they're entitled to accessibility from the private sector, and not only that, but entitled to it for free. Yes, it would be nice if we lived in a perfectly accessible world, where everything worked and we didn't have to pay extra or put in any extra work. But we don't. And at least in the US, (I live in the US so I can't comment on the UK or other countries), the ADA, which has very few teeth in itself, doesn't apply to the private sector, unless they're receiving government funding. And even then, there's the "reasonable accommodation" clause. So we really are, in most cases, better off hacking our own solutions together, and maybe sharing them with each other so there's less re-inventing of the wheel. Because trust me, if I were to, say, call FS and tell them that all this Red Hat crap I'm dealing with is almost inaccessible, and I want better support for terminal emulators, they're pretty much going to tell me to fuck myself because there's not enough of a market share for that sort of thing, and same goes for virtual machines and all these other nice new technologies they don't officially support. -Original Message- From: mai...@andrelouis.com [mailto:mai...@andrelouis.com] On Behalf Of Doug Langley Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 10:12 To: talk2 Subject: Re: The Talk2 List Fw: [access] WFA User Protest Also, the WFA concept of free life time upgrades also put a nail in its coffin. Wheres the insentive for Vodaphone to develop a program which wont bring them any sort of positive cash flow? This is a gps program and it needs updated data on a regular basis and wheres the insentive for vodaphone to do *anything* that wont bring them at least the ability to break even? First and formost its about money and 777 blind people that signed a petition who arent obligated (by the license agreement) to ever give them another penny arent going to be insentive enough to do anything about it. On 3/2/2010 7:03 AM, Doug Langley wrote: I'm glad to see someone else with a brain. No one ever takes these internet petitions seriously. I signed it but only because it can only help more than hurt. That being said, if people spent as much time working on a new solution instead of trying to save an old dieing one we would probably all be better off. This is vodaphone. they hear from more people in a single hour than they will in this hole petition. And all this petition is doing is asking for a reason why. so we can spend 3 months getting 778 signatures so they can say, "because it didnt make business sense." Thank you for contacting vodaphone we hope we can service you in the future. On 3/2/2010 6:57 AM, Amanda Rush wrote: K this is a record. I was turned off by about the second line of this guy's message. I totally get being angry about accessibility or the lack thereof, but begging for signatures is like begging for charity. Neither one works very well, and getting angry with the people you're trying to get signatures/charity from isn't a good thing either. Also, IMO, (and it's probably only my opinion, and we know what those are like, but this is the crux of the e
Re: The Talk2 List Fw: [access] WFA User Protest
Here here. I've saved up and purchased all of my assistive tech over the years. No group of people is entitled to things for free just because of what may be wrong with them. Remember that virus that disabled all of the pirated copies of JAWS a couple years ago for Christmas? I'd really like to shake the hand of whoever put that crack together. I still chuckle about it when the incident comes to mind. Steve On 3/2/2010 10:21 AM, Amanda Rush wrote: Thanks for the compliment Doug. Now let me open up another can of worms. I'm not necessarily going out of my way to piss people off, but if it happens, oh well. I think that, to a large extent, a lot of blind people think they're entitled to accessibility from the private sector, and not only that, but entitled to it for free. Yes, it would be nice if we lived in a perfectly accessible world, where everything worked and we didn't have to pay extra or put in any extra work. But we don't. And at least in the US, (I live in the US so I can't comment on the UK or other countries), the ADA, which has very few teeth in itself, doesn't apply to the private sector, unless they're receiving government funding. And even then, there's the "reasonable accommodation" clause. So we really are, in most cases, better off hacking our own solutions together, and maybe sharing them with each other so there's less re-inventing of the wheel. Because trust me, if I were to, say, call FS and tell them that all this Red Hat crap I'm dealing with is almost inaccessible, and I want better support for terminal emulators, they're pretty much going to tell me to fuck myself because there's not enough of a market share for that sort of thing, and same goes for virtual machines and all these other nice new technologies they don't officially support. -Original Message- From: mai...@andrelouis.com [mailto:mai...@andrelouis.com] On Behalf Of Doug Langley Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 10:12 To: talk2 Subject: Re: The Talk2 List Fw: [access] WFA User Protest Also, the WFA concept of free life time upgrades also put a nail in its coffin. Wheres the insentive for Vodaphone to develop a program which wont bring them any sort of positive cash flow? This is a gps program and it needs updated data on a regular basis and wheres the insentive for vodaphone to do *anything* that wont bring them at least the ability to break even? First and formost its about money and 777 blind people that signed a petition who arent obligated (by the license agreement) to ever give them another penny arent going to be insentive enough to do anything about it. On 3/2/2010 7:03 AM, Doug Langley wrote: I'm glad to see someone else with a brain. No one ever takes these internet petitions seriously. I signed it but only because it can only help more than hurt. That being said, if people spent as much time working on a new solution instead of trying to save an old dieing one we would probably all be better off. This is vodaphone. they hear from more people in a single hour than they will in this hole petition. And all this petition is doing is asking for a reason why. so we can spend 3 months getting 778 signatures so they can say, "because it didnt make business sense." Thank you for contacting vodaphone we hope we can service you in the future. On 3/2/2010 6:57 AM, Amanda Rush wrote: K this is a record. I was turned off by about the second line of this guy's message. I totally get being angry about accessibility or the lack thereof, but begging for signatures is like begging for charity. Neither one works very well, and getting angry with the people you're trying to get signatures/charity from isn't a good thing either. Also, IMO, (and it's probably only my opinion, and we know what those are like, but this is the crux of the entire accessibility fight), companies like this one and every other one ignore these sorts of petitions because, even if every single blind user were to call their bluff, we're not a big enough of their market to matter as far as sales or whatever. And in the case of the FS petition, we can all bitch and whine till we're out of breath, but the fact is that 90% of their clientel is government contracts. So they can pretty much do whatever, and the other AT companies will eventually go along or go out of business, and so there's no real insentive for FS to do anything positive. Note: I'm not a huge FS fan. At all. So I hope no one takes this as rooting for them. And wow, DJ Patty, haven't heard from you in *ages. I was wondering what had happened to you. Good to see you're still around. Amanda -Original Message- From: mai...@andrelouis.com [mailto:mai...@andrelouis.com] On Behalf Of Dj Paddy Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 17:35 To: talk2 S
Re: The Talk2 List Fw: [access] WFA User Protest
That would be the best, and if I had the knowledge I'd do it or talk to them about it. Hopefully someone will, because Loadstone could be good if it just streamlined the process of getting maps and POIs and got access to the better maps from Google. Doug Langley wrote: Has anyone approached loadstone about adding the googlemaps/earth api's? street view and directions are availible in many countrys. you add the loadstone user POIS to the google maps api and poi's and you actually have something going. google maps is the best source for free maps. if people dont want to pay mobile geo prices then implement google maps in to something like loadstone or build a completely open source cross platform app in either python or java and talk to the appropriate screen reader API's. On 3/2/2010 8:27 AM, Brandon Hicks wrote: Not to mention most of those people aren't in countries Vodaphone serve. So there's another lack of insentive. Now if you had 700 blinks who were going to break contracts with them over it they might think again but as it is that's not going to happen. Vodaphone have nothing to gain and everything to lose by doing something about this, but the blinks feel entitled. Instead of putting the tallent to work for Loadstone they're just bitching. Typical. Brandon Doug Langley wrote: Also, the WFA concept of free life time upgrades also put a nail in its coffin. Wheres the insentive for Vodaphone to develop a program which wont bring them any sort of positive cash flow? This is a gps program and it needs updated data on a regular basis and wheres the insentive for vodaphone to do *anything* that wont bring them at least the ability to break even? First and formost its about money and 777 blind people that signed a petition who arent obligated (by the license agreement) to ever give them another penny arent going to be insentive enough to do anything about it. On 3/2/2010 7:03 AM, Doug Langley wrote: I'm glad to see someone else with a brain. No one ever takes these internet petitions seriously. I signed it but only because it can only help more than hurt. That being said, if people spent as much time working on a new solution instead of trying to save an old dieing one we would probably all be better off. This is vodaphone. they hear from more people in a single hour than they will in this hole petition. And all this petition is doing is asking for a reason why. so we can spend 3 months getting 778 signatures so they can say, "because it didnt make business sense." Thank you for contacting vodaphone we hope we can service you in the future. On 3/2/2010 6:57 AM, Amanda Rush wrote: K this is a record. I was turned off by about the second line of this guy's message. I totally get being angry about accessibility or the lack thereof, but begging for signatures is like begging for charity. Neither one works very well, and getting angry with the people you're trying to get signatures/charity from isn't a good thing either. Also, IMO, (and it's probably only my opinion, and we know what those are like, but this is the crux of the entire accessibility fight), companies like this one and every other one ignore these sorts of petitions because, even if every single blind user were to call their bluff, we're not a big enough of their market to matter as far as sales or whatever. And in the case of the FS petition, we can all bitch and whine till we're out of breath, but the fact is that 90% of their clientel is government contracts. So they can pretty much do whatever, and the other AT companies will eventually go along or go out of business, and so there's no real insentive for FS to do anything positive. Note: I'm not a huge FS fan. At all. So I hope no one takes this as rooting for them. And wow, DJ Patty, haven't heard from you in *ages. I was wondering what had happened to you. Good to see you're still around. Amanda -Original Message- From: mai...@andrelouis.com [mailto:mai...@andrelouis.com] On Behalf Of Dj Paddy Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 17:35 To: talk2 Subject: RE: The Talk2 List Fw: [access] WFA User Protest Guys just displaying understandable anger over loss of access. Barry -Original Message- From: mai...@andrelouis.com [mailto:mai...@andrelouis.com] On Behalf Of Brandon Hicks Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 8:45 PM To: talk2 Subject: Re: The Talk2 List Fw: [access] WFA User Protest Agreed. This message speaks of childish tantrums. Even the Freedom Scientific petition didn't get much over a thousand signatures, if even that. This one's not going to get much more. I thought about it until I got to about the third line of the message. Brandon Stephen Clower wrote: So... he wants more signatures, but the only way he feels he can get them is to insult everybody? I won't sign now simply
Re: The Talk2 List Fw: [access] WFA User Protest
Has anyone approached loadstone about adding the googlemaps/earth api's? street view and directions are availible in many countrys. you add the loadstone user POIS to the google maps api and poi's and you actually have something going. google maps is the best source for free maps. if people dont want to pay mobile geo prices then implement google maps in to something like loadstone or build a completely open source cross platform app in either python or java and talk to the appropriate screen reader API's. On 3/2/2010 8:27 AM, Brandon Hicks wrote: Not to mention most of those people aren't in countries Vodaphone serve. So there's another lack of insentive. Now if you had 700 blinks who were going to break contracts with them over it they might think again but as it is that's not going to happen. Vodaphone have nothing to gain and everything to lose by doing something about this, but the blinks feel entitled. Instead of putting the tallent to work for Loadstone they're just bitching. Typical. Brandon Doug Langley wrote: Also, the WFA concept of free life time upgrades also put a nail in its coffin. Wheres the insentive for Vodaphone to develop a program which wont bring them any sort of positive cash flow? This is a gps program and it needs updated data on a regular basis and wheres the insentive for vodaphone to do *anything* that wont bring them at least the ability to break even? First and formost its about money and 777 blind people that signed a petition who arent obligated (by the license agreement) to ever give them another penny arent going to be insentive enough to do anything about it. On 3/2/2010 7:03 AM, Doug Langley wrote: I'm glad to see someone else with a brain. No one ever takes these internet petitions seriously. I signed it but only because it can only help more than hurt. That being said, if people spent as much time working on a new solution instead of trying to save an old dieing one we would probably all be better off. This is vodaphone. they hear from more people in a single hour than they will in this hole petition. And all this petition is doing is asking for a reason why. so we can spend 3 months getting 778 signatures so they can say, "because it didnt make business sense." Thank you for contacting vodaphone we hope we can service you in the future. On 3/2/2010 6:57 AM, Amanda Rush wrote: K this is a record. I was turned off by about the second line of this guy's message. I totally get being angry about accessibility or the lack thereof, but begging for signatures is like begging for charity. Neither one works very well, and getting angry with the people you're trying to get signatures/charity from isn't a good thing either. Also, IMO, (and it's probably only my opinion, and we know what those are like, but this is the crux of the entire accessibility fight), companies like this one and every other one ignore these sorts of petitions because, even if every single blind user were to call their bluff, we're not a big enough of their market to matter as far as sales or whatever. And in the case of the FS petition, we can all bitch and whine till we're out of breath, but the fact is that 90% of their clientel is government contracts. So they can pretty much do whatever, and the other AT companies will eventually go along or go out of business, and so there's no real insentive for FS to do anything positive. Note: I'm not a huge FS fan. At all. So I hope no one takes this as rooting for them. And wow, DJ Patty, haven't heard from you in *ages. I was wondering what had happened to you. Good to see you're still around. Amanda -Original Message- From: mai...@andrelouis.com [mailto:mai...@andrelouis.com] On Behalf Of Dj Paddy Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 17:35 To: talk2 Subject: RE: The Talk2 List Fw: [access] WFA User Protest Guys just displaying understandable anger over loss of access. Barry -Original Message- From: mai...@andrelouis.com [mailto:mai...@andrelouis.com] On Behalf Of Brandon Hicks Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 8:45 PM To: talk2 Subject: Re: The Talk2 List Fw: [access] WFA User Protest Agreed. This message speaks of childish tantrums. Even the Freedom Scientific petition didn't get much over a thousand signatures, if even that. This one's not going to get much more. I thought about it until I got to about the third line of the message. Brandon Stephen Clower wrote: So... he wants more signatures, but the only way he feels he can get them is to insult everybody? I won't sign now simply because of the author's attitude, despite his good intentions. Steve On 3/1/2010 2:12 PM, Onj wrote: I haven't seen a message on this list for months. Why not let the content of this message speak for itself? From: Neil Barnfather - TalkNav on Monday, March 01, 201
Re: The Talk2 List Fw: [access] WFA User Protest
Not to mention most of those people aren't in countries Vodaphone serve. So there's another lack of insentive. Now if you had 700 blinks who were going to break contracts with them over it they might think again but as it is that's not going to happen. Vodaphone have nothing to gain and everything to lose by doing something about this, but the blinks feel entitled. Instead of putting the tallent to work for Loadstone they're just bitching. Typical. Brandon Doug Langley wrote: Also, the WFA concept of free life time upgrades also put a nail in its coffin. Wheres the insentive for Vodaphone to develop a program which wont bring them any sort of positive cash flow? This is a gps program and it needs updated data on a regular basis and wheres the insentive for vodaphone to do *anything* that wont bring them at least the ability to break even? First and formost its about money and 777 blind people that signed a petition who arent obligated (by the license agreement) to ever give them another penny arent going to be insentive enough to do anything about it. On 3/2/2010 7:03 AM, Doug Langley wrote: I'm glad to see someone else with a brain. No one ever takes these internet petitions seriously. I signed it but only because it can only help more than hurt. That being said, if people spent as much time working on a new solution instead of trying to save an old dieing one we would probably all be better off. This is vodaphone. they hear from more people in a single hour than they will in this hole petition. And all this petition is doing is asking for a reason why. so we can spend 3 months getting 778 signatures so they can say, "because it didnt make business sense." Thank you for contacting vodaphone we hope we can service you in the future. On 3/2/2010 6:57 AM, Amanda Rush wrote: K this is a record. I was turned off by about the second line of this guy's message. I totally get being angry about accessibility or the lack thereof, but begging for signatures is like begging for charity. Neither one works very well, and getting angry with the people you're trying to get signatures/charity from isn't a good thing either. Also, IMO, (and it's probably only my opinion, and we know what those are like, but this is the crux of the entire accessibility fight), companies like this one and every other one ignore these sorts of petitions because, even if every single blind user were to call their bluff, we're not a big enough of their market to matter as far as sales or whatever. And in the case of the FS petition, we can all bitch and whine till we're out of breath, but the fact is that 90% of their clientel is government contracts. So they can pretty much do whatever, and the other AT companies will eventually go along or go out of business, and so there's no real insentive for FS to do anything positive. Note: I'm not a huge FS fan. At all. So I hope no one takes this as rooting for them. And wow, DJ Patty, haven't heard from you in *ages. I was wondering what had happened to you. Good to see you're still around. Amanda -Original Message- From: mai...@andrelouis.com [mailto:mai...@andrelouis.com] On Behalf Of Dj Paddy Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 17:35 To: talk2 Subject: RE: The Talk2 List Fw: [access] WFA User Protest Guys just displaying understandable anger over loss of access. Barry -Original Message- From: mai...@andrelouis.com [mailto:mai...@andrelouis.com] On Behalf Of Brandon Hicks Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 8:45 PM To: talk2 Subject: Re: The Talk2 List Fw: [access] WFA User Protest Agreed. This message speaks of childish tantrums. Even the Freedom Scientific petition didn't get much over a thousand signatures, if even that. This one's not going to get much more. I thought about it until I got to about the third line of the message. Brandon Stephen Clower wrote: So... he wants more signatures, but the only way he feels he can get them is to insult everybody? I won't sign now simply because of the author's attitude, despite his good intentions. Steve On 3/1/2010 2:12 PM, Onj wrote: I haven't seen a message on this list for months. Why not let the content of this message speak for itself? From: Neil Barnfather - TalkNav on Monday, March 01, 2010 6:02 PM A quick note to all of you who have, and those who as of yet have not signed the WFA user protest site. Before I start my message the link right here and now is www.talknav.com/protest Firstly, a note to all of you who have signed, thank you, but I have to at this stage say that it is way too few who have made this effort. We are nearing 700, yet for Vodafone to take this seriously we need thousands. To date we've not even got close to even the number of users of the application signing, let alone additional support. Can I especially ask those of you who eit
RE: The Talk2 List Fw: [access] WFA User Protest
Thanks for the compliment Doug. Now let me open up another can of worms. I'm not necessarily going out of my way to piss people off, but if it happens, oh well. I think that, to a large extent, a lot of blind people think they're entitled to accessibility from the private sector, and not only that, but entitled to it for free. Yes, it would be nice if we lived in a perfectly accessible world, where everything worked and we didn't have to pay extra or put in any extra work. But we don't. And at least in the US, (I live in the US so I can't comment on the UK or other countries), the ADA, which has very few teeth in itself, doesn't apply to the private sector, unless they're receiving government funding. And even then, there's the "reasonable accommodation" clause. So we really are, in most cases, better off hacking our own solutions together, and maybe sharing them with each other so there's less re-inventing of the wheel. Because trust me, if I were to, say, call FS and tell them that all this Red Hat crap I'm dealing with is almost inaccessible, and I want better support for terminal emulators, they're pretty much going to tell me to fuck myself because there's not enough of a market share for that sort of thing, and same goes for virtual machines and all these other nice new technologies they don't officially support. -Original Message- From: mai...@andrelouis.com [mailto:mai...@andrelouis.com] On Behalf Of Doug Langley Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 10:12 To: talk2 Subject: Re: The Talk2 List Fw: [access] WFA User Protest Also, the WFA concept of free life time upgrades also put a nail in its coffin. Wheres the insentive for Vodaphone to develop a program which wont bring them any sort of positive cash flow? This is a gps program and it needs updated data on a regular basis and wheres the insentive for vodaphone to do *anything* that wont bring them at least the ability to break even? First and formost its about money and 777 blind people that signed a petition who arent obligated (by the license agreement) to ever give them another penny arent going to be insentive enough to do anything about it. On 3/2/2010 7:03 AM, Doug Langley wrote: > I'm glad to see someone else with a brain. No one ever takes these > internet petitions seriously. I signed it but only because it can only > help more than hurt. That being said, if people spent as much time > working on a new solution instead of trying to save an old dieing one > we would probably all be better off. This is vodaphone. they hear > from more people in a single hour than they will in this hole > petition. And all this petition is doing is asking for a reason why. > so we can spend 3 months getting 778 signatures so they can say, > "because it didnt make business sense." Thank you for contacting > vodaphone we hope we can service you in the future. > > On 3/2/2010 6:57 AM, Amanda Rush wrote: >> K this is a record. I was turned off by about the second line of this >> guy's message. I totally get being angry about accessibility or the lack >> thereof, but begging for signatures is like begging for charity. Neither >> one works very well, and getting angry with the people you're trying to >> get signatures/charity from isn't a good thing either. Also, IMO, (and >> it's probably only my opinion, and we know what those are like, but this >> is the crux of the entire accessibility fight), companies like this one >> and every other one ignore these sorts of petitions because, even if >> every >> single blind user were to call their bluff, we're not a big enough of >> their market to matter as far as sales or whatever. And in the case >> of the >> FS petition, we can all bitch and whine till we're out of breath, but >> the >> fact is that 90% of their clientel is government contracts. So they can >> pretty much do whatever, and the other AT companies will eventually go >> along or go out of business, and so there's no real insentive for FS >> to do >> anything positive. Note: I'm not a huge FS fan. At all. So I hope no one >> takes this as rooting for them. >> >> And wow, DJ Patty, haven't heard from you in *ages. I was wondering what >> had happened to you. Good to see you're still around. >> >> Amanda >> >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: mai...@andrelouis.com [mailto:mai...@andrelouis.com] On Behalf >> Of Dj >> Paddy >> Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 17:35 >> To: talk2 >> Subject: RE: The Talk2 List Fw: [access] WFA User Protest >> >> Guys just displaying understandable anger over loss of access. >> >> Barry >> >> -
Re: The Talk2 List Fw: [access] WFA User Protest
Also, the WFA concept of free life time upgrades also put a nail in its coffin. Wheres the insentive for Vodaphone to develop a program which wont bring them any sort of positive cash flow? This is a gps program and it needs updated data on a regular basis and wheres the insentive for vodaphone to do *anything* that wont bring them at least the ability to break even? First and formost its about money and 777 blind people that signed a petition who arent obligated (by the license agreement) to ever give them another penny arent going to be insentive enough to do anything about it. On 3/2/2010 7:03 AM, Doug Langley wrote: I'm glad to see someone else with a brain. No one ever takes these internet petitions seriously. I signed it but only because it can only help more than hurt. That being said, if people spent as much time working on a new solution instead of trying to save an old dieing one we would probably all be better off. This is vodaphone. they hear from more people in a single hour than they will in this hole petition. And all this petition is doing is asking for a reason why. so we can spend 3 months getting 778 signatures so they can say, "because it didnt make business sense." Thank you for contacting vodaphone we hope we can service you in the future. On 3/2/2010 6:57 AM, Amanda Rush wrote: K this is a record. I was turned off by about the second line of this guy's message. I totally get being angry about accessibility or the lack thereof, but begging for signatures is like begging for charity. Neither one works very well, and getting angry with the people you're trying to get signatures/charity from isn't a good thing either. Also, IMO, (and it's probably only my opinion, and we know what those are like, but this is the crux of the entire accessibility fight), companies like this one and every other one ignore these sorts of petitions because, even if every single blind user were to call their bluff, we're not a big enough of their market to matter as far as sales or whatever. And in the case of the FS petition, we can all bitch and whine till we're out of breath, but the fact is that 90% of their clientel is government contracts. So they can pretty much do whatever, and the other AT companies will eventually go along or go out of business, and so there's no real insentive for FS to do anything positive. Note: I'm not a huge FS fan. At all. So I hope no one takes this as rooting for them. And wow, DJ Patty, haven't heard from you in *ages. I was wondering what had happened to you. Good to see you're still around. Amanda -Original Message- From: mai...@andrelouis.com [mailto:mai...@andrelouis.com] On Behalf Of Dj Paddy Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 17:35 To: talk2 Subject: RE: The Talk2 List Fw: [access] WFA User Protest Guys just displaying understandable anger over loss of access. Barry -Original Message- From: mai...@andrelouis.com [mailto:mai...@andrelouis.com] On Behalf Of Brandon Hicks Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 8:45 PM To: talk2 Subject: Re: The Talk2 List Fw: [access] WFA User Protest Agreed. This message speaks of childish tantrums. Even the Freedom Scientific petition didn't get much over a thousand signatures, if even that. This one's not going to get much more. I thought about it until I got to about the third line of the message. Brandon Stephen Clower wrote: So... he wants more signatures, but the only way he feels he can get them is to insult everybody? I won't sign now simply because of the author's attitude, despite his good intentions. Steve On 3/1/2010 2:12 PM, Onj wrote: I haven't seen a message on this list for months. Why not let the content of this message speak for itself? From: Neil Barnfather - TalkNav on Monday, March 01, 2010 6:02 PM A quick note to all of you who have, and those who as of yet have not signed the WFA user protest site. Before I start my message the link right here and now is www.talknav.com/protest Firstly, a note to all of you who have signed, thank you, but I have to at this stage say that it is way too few who have made this effort. We are nearing 700, yet for Vodafone to take this seriously we need thousands. To date we've not even got close to even the number of users of the application signing, let alone additional support. Can I especially ask those of you who either work with or for the organizations that supposedly represent us as blind folk, yes you lot, those of you at the RNIB, CNIB, AFB, NFB, etc, etc, you lot really have made me rather upset and irritated. To date I've posted two messages via each of your web-sites informing you all of our protest, has any one of you got back to me to ask for more detail, have you mass mailed your members, have you lobbied in our favour, have you, no sir. Is this an outrage, is this a complete lack of competence when it come
Re: The Talk2 List Fw: [access] WFA User Protest
I'm glad to see someone else with a brain. No one ever takes these internet petitions seriously. I signed it but only because it can only help more than hurt. That being said, if people spent as much time working on a new solution instead of trying to save an old dieing one we would probably all be better off. This is vodaphone. they hear from more people in a single hour than they will in this hole petition. And all this petition is doing is asking for a reason why. so we can spend 3 months getting 778 signatures so they can say, "because it didnt make business sense." Thank you for contacting vodaphone we hope we can service you in the future. On 3/2/2010 6:57 AM, Amanda Rush wrote: K this is a record. I was turned off by about the second line of this guy's message. I totally get being angry about accessibility or the lack thereof, but begging for signatures is like begging for charity. Neither one works very well, and getting angry with the people you're trying to get signatures/charity from isn't a good thing either. Also, IMO, (and it's probably only my opinion, and we know what those are like, but this is the crux of the entire accessibility fight), companies like this one and every other one ignore these sorts of petitions because, even if every single blind user were to call their bluff, we're not a big enough of their market to matter as far as sales or whatever. And in the case of the FS petition, we can all bitch and whine till we're out of breath, but the fact is that 90% of their clientel is government contracts. So they can pretty much do whatever, and the other AT companies will eventually go along or go out of business, and so there's no real insentive for FS to do anything positive. Note: I'm not a huge FS fan. At all. So I hope no one takes this as rooting for them. And wow, DJ Patty, haven't heard from you in *ages. I was wondering what had happened to you. Good to see you're still around. Amanda -Original Message- From: mai...@andrelouis.com [mailto:mai...@andrelouis.com] On Behalf Of Dj Paddy Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 17:35 To: talk2 Subject: RE: The Talk2 List Fw: [access] WFA User Protest Guys just displaying understandable anger over loss of access. Barry -Original Message- From: mai...@andrelouis.com [mailto:mai...@andrelouis.com] On Behalf Of Brandon Hicks Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 8:45 PM To: talk2 Subject: Re: The Talk2 List Fw: [access] WFA User Protest Agreed. This message speaks of childish tantrums. Even the Freedom Scientific petition didn't get much over a thousand signatures, if even that. This one's not going to get much more. I thought about it until I got to about the third line of the message. Brandon Stephen Clower wrote: So... he wants more signatures, but the only way he feels he can get them is to insult everybody? I won't sign now simply because of the author's attitude, despite his good intentions. Steve On 3/1/2010 2:12 PM, Onj wrote: I haven't seen a message on this list for months. Why not let the content of this message speak for itself? From: Neil Barnfather - TalkNav on Monday, March 01, 2010 6:02 PM A quick note to all of you who have, and those who as of yet have not signed the WFA user protest site. Before I start my message the link right here and now is www.talknav.com/protest Firstly, a note to all of you who have signed, thank you, but I have to at this stage say that it is way too few who have made this effort. We are nearing 700, yet for Vodafone to take this seriously we need thousands. To date we've not even got close to even the number of users of the application signing, let alone additional support. Can I especially ask those of you who either work with or for the organizations that supposedly represent us as blind folk, yes you lot, those of you at the RNIB, CNIB, AFB, NFB, etc, etc, you lot really have made me rather upset and irritated. To date I've posted two messages via each of your web-sites informing you all of our protest, has any one of you got back to me to ask for more detail, have you mass mailed your members, have you lobbied in our favour, have you, no sir. Is this an outrage, is this a complete lack of competence when it comes to supporting those who you claim to represent? This individual thinks so. So if you represent, or have a contact at your local blind organization please forward this message, we, or certainly I, am very, very disappointed in you all. As for those private individuals who have not yet signed, even if you do not own Access or a Symbian phone, your name should be on this list, the list says something about who we are and what we stand for as blind folks, it says that we will not lay down and be ignored whilst our tools to freedom and mobility are stolen from us. It says we have a voice and we ar
RE: The Talk2 List Fw: [access] WFA User Protest
K this is a record. I was turned off by about the second line of this guy's message. I totally get being angry about accessibility or the lack thereof, but begging for signatures is like begging for charity. Neither one works very well, and getting angry with the people you're trying to get signatures/charity from isn't a good thing either. Also, IMO, (and it's probably only my opinion, and we know what those are like, but this is the crux of the entire accessibility fight), companies like this one and every other one ignore these sorts of petitions because, even if every single blind user were to call their bluff, we're not a big enough of their market to matter as far as sales or whatever. And in the case of the FS petition, we can all bitch and whine till we're out of breath, but the fact is that 90% of their clientel is government contracts. So they can pretty much do whatever, and the other AT companies will eventually go along or go out of business, and so there's no real insentive for FS to do anything positive. Note: I'm not a huge FS fan. At all. So I hope no one takes this as rooting for them. And wow, DJ Patty, haven't heard from you in *ages. I was wondering what had happened to you. Good to see you're still around. Amanda -Original Message- From: mai...@andrelouis.com [mailto:mai...@andrelouis.com] On Behalf Of Dj Paddy Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 17:35 To: talk2 Subject: RE: The Talk2 List Fw: [access] WFA User Protest Guys just displaying understandable anger over loss of access. Barry -Original Message- From: mai...@andrelouis.com [mailto:mai...@andrelouis.com] On Behalf Of Brandon Hicks Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 8:45 PM To: talk2 Subject: Re: The Talk2 List Fw: [access] WFA User Protest Agreed. This message speaks of childish tantrums. Even the Freedom Scientific petition didn't get much over a thousand signatures, if even that. This one's not going to get much more. I thought about it until I got to about the third line of the message. Brandon Stephen Clower wrote: > So... he wants more signatures, but the only way he feels he can get > them is to insult everybody? I won't sign now simply because of the > author's attitude, despite his good intentions. > > Steve > > On 3/1/2010 2:12 PM, Onj wrote: >> I haven't seen a message on this list for months. Why not let the >> content of this message speak for itself? >> >> From: Neil Barnfather - TalkNav >> on Monday, March 01, 2010 6:02 PM >> >>> A quick note to all of you who have, and those who as of yet have >>> not signed >>> the WFA user protest site. >>> >>> Before I start my message the link right here and now is >>> www.talknav.com/protest >>> >>> Firstly, a note to all of you who have signed, thank you, but I have >>> to at >>> this stage say that it is way too few who have made this effort. We are >>> nearing 700, yet for Vodafone to take this seriously we need thousands. >>> >>> To date we've not even got close to even the number of users of the >>> application signing, let alone additional support. >>> >>> Can I especially ask those of you who either work with or for the >>> organizations that supposedly represent us as blind folk, yes you >>> lot, those >>> of you at the RNIB, CNIB, AFB, NFB, etc, etc, you lot really have >>> made me >>> rather upset and irritated. >>> >>> To date I've posted two messages via each of your web-sites >>> informing you >>> all of our protest, has any one of you got back to me to ask for more >>> detail, have you mass mailed your members, have you lobbied in our >>> favour, >>> have you, no sir. Is this an outrage, is this a complete lack of >>> competence >>> when it comes to supporting those who you claim to represent? This >>> individual thinks so. So if you represent, or have a contact at your >>> local >>> blind organization please forward this message, we, or certainly I, >>> am very, >>> very disappointed in you all. >>> >>> As for those private individuals who have not yet signed, even if >>> you do not >>> own Access or a Symbian phone, your name should be on this list, the >>> list >>> says something about who we are and what we stand for as blind >>> folks, it >>> says that we will not lay down and be ignored whilst our tools to >>> freedom >>> and mobility are stolen from us. It says we have a voice and we are >>> prepared >>> to use it when necessary. >>> >>> This protest is abo
Re: The Talk2 List Fw: [access] WFA User Protest
I must reluctantly aggree with simbian on that one. yeah its simple and works but it does look like a dos program from 1996. At any rate this wayfinder thing is supposed to go either nokia or vodaphone internal so we have gps subsystems that come with the phone. now as long as they use the same thing and the same data I am all for intigration especially if it means les modules to buy. Simbian hasn't really had any major ui upgrade so again I aggree it needs it. hmph klango is a nice platform pitty its all net based imagine if that was on the phone. actually thinking on that we would probably use our credit on loads of unnecessary things. at least I would. At 11:24 a.m. 2/03/2010, you wrote: >and, symbian is changing the UI to a better GUI which is visually appealing >and doesnt look like a dos app from 1996. Tthe problem with this new GUI is >its very lacking in the accessibility department. and will probably take >screen reader venders several years to redesign things to work with the new UI. > >The s60 UI sucks and symbian knows it cant compete if they dont make it more >visually apealing and more user friendly. They realize for example that it >shouldnt take 12 taps/keystrokes just to create the email account on the phone. > > >On 3/1/2010 2:13 PM, Stephen Clower wrote: >>It's open source, but to release it that way, Nokia had to remove a lot of >>closed-source components that are critical to the platform itself. If you >>compiled and installed what's on the internet right now, you'd end up with a >>brick. >> >>Steve >> >>On 3/1/2010 5:11 PM, shaun everiss wrote: >>>hmph. >>>thought symbian was opensource. >>>oh well what exactly will we all use after all that goes away. >>>not that I care much there will probably be for the forseeable future old >>>phones mine still works. >>>I suppose we will have to use all the broken windows and simlinux systems >>>then. >>>android looks promising though the google nexus was a joke really was. >>>Its a pitty we can't just have a version of win7 or xp on a mobile. >>>Its a shame that the only phone that is mac is an iphone. >>>Would like to have hmm a mac powerphone imagine what cool things I would be >>>able to do with that. >>>At 10:54 a.m. 2/03/2010, you wrote: Given what's out there right now, it can't be done. Platforms are very, very different, and a lot of what products like Orca or NVDA need to operate aren't present on handsets. Android is based on Linux, by the way. A screen reader is in the works, and while it's not very useful now, it may be great given another year or two of development. Nokia is abandoning Simbian as we all know it in loo of a Linux/Simbian hybrid which is just as broken as Windows Phone 7 will be Steve On 3/1/2010 4:51 PM, shaun everiss wrote: >hmph. >well I myself think simbian rocks. >win mobile, well from what I hear it crashes like no one's business. >On that note wander why no one has designed something around a linux >distro, ubuntu, maybe nvda and something else. >could probably work to. >and you could run linux apps on your mobile. >At 10:35 a.m. 2/03/2010, you wrote: > >>I suspect everyone on that list has already signed. He needs to get the >>word out through additional channels without trying to guilt trip the >>reader into signing it. Frankly though, I don't think there will be much >>luck. A telecomm company that has hundreds of thousands of customers >>doesn't care about a thousand blind people, no matter how angry they get. >>Just look at what Microsoft is doing to Windows Mobile; yanking the rug >>out from under everyone with no regards to keeping products like >>MobileSpeak functional. Why petition? Microsoft obviously doesn't give a >>flip, and neither do these guys. >> >>As much as I like MobileSpeak and especially Mobile Geo, I'll be banking >>on the Android platform in a few years when both WM and Simbian are dead. >> >>Steve >> >> >>On 3/1/2010 3:39 PM, Onj wrote: >> >>>you're not head of a large blindy organisation, though. And though I >>>agree with your standpoint, to a point, if I ask you, will you sign >>>instead? I'm asking as someone who, unless Loadstone really decides to >>>do something useful, will have no GPS undder his platform. You have >>>Mobile Geo and you are lucky for that, however it shall be a cold day in >>>hell I switch to Windows smart. Especially with all the incredibly um, >>>interesting? changes they are trying to implement at this time. >>>So, ignoring that message, which to be fair the guy did have a point, he >>>wasn't saying it to individuals but to large organisations, please sign >>>it. I can't ask more than that really. >>> >>>From: Stephen Clower >>>on Monday, March 01, 2010 7:20 PM >>> >>> So... he wants more sig
RE: The Talk2 List Fw: [access] WFA User Protest
Guys just displaying understandable anger over loss of access. Barry -Original Message- From: mai...@andrelouis.com [mailto:mai...@andrelouis.com] On Behalf Of Brandon Hicks Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 8:45 PM To: talk2 Subject: Re: The Talk2 List Fw: [access] WFA User Protest Agreed. This message speaks of childish tantrums. Even the Freedom Scientific petition didn't get much over a thousand signatures, if even that. This one's not going to get much more. I thought about it until I got to about the third line of the message. Brandon Stephen Clower wrote: > So... he wants more signatures, but the only way he feels he can get > them is to insult everybody? I won't sign now simply because of the > author's attitude, despite his good intentions. > > Steve > > On 3/1/2010 2:12 PM, Onj wrote: >> I haven't seen a message on this list for months. Why not let the >> content of this message speak for itself? >> >> From: Neil Barnfather - TalkNav >> on Monday, March 01, 2010 6:02 PM >> >>> A quick note to all of you who have, and those who as of yet have >>> not signed >>> the WFA user protest site. >>> >>> Before I start my message the link right here and now is >>> www.talknav.com/protest >>> >>> Firstly, a note to all of you who have signed, thank you, but I have >>> to at >>> this stage say that it is way too few who have made this effort. We are >>> nearing 700, yet for Vodafone to take this seriously we need thousands. >>> >>> To date we've not even got close to even the number of users of the >>> application signing, let alone additional support. >>> >>> Can I especially ask those of you who either work with or for the >>> organizations that supposedly represent us as blind folk, yes you >>> lot, those >>> of you at the RNIB, CNIB, AFB, NFB, etc, etc, you lot really have >>> made me >>> rather upset and irritated. >>> >>> To date I've posted two messages via each of your web-sites >>> informing you >>> all of our protest, has any one of you got back to me to ask for more >>> detail, have you mass mailed your members, have you lobbied in our >>> favour, >>> have you, no sir. Is this an outrage, is this a complete lack of >>> competence >>> when it comes to supporting those who you claim to represent? This >>> individual thinks so. So if you represent, or have a contact at your >>> local >>> blind organization please forward this message, we, or certainly I, >>> am very, >>> very disappointed in you all. >>> >>> As for those private individuals who have not yet signed, even if >>> you do not >>> own Access or a Symbian phone, your name should be on this list, the >>> list >>> says something about who we are and what we stand for as blind >>> folks, it >>> says that we will not lay down and be ignored whilst our tools to >>> freedom >>> and mobility are stolen from us. It says we have a voice and we are >>> prepared >>> to use it when necessary. >>> >>> This protest is about more than just Wayfinder Access, it is a >>> symbol, now >>> please, I urge you all, we need this link spreading, we need it >>> sharing, >>> Face Book pages, Twitter, those of you who produce pod casts, >>> mailing lists >>> etc, etc, if you believe in your freedom to mobility and your rights to >>> accessible products then make your mark. >>> >>> More than this, those you know need to say that they too are in >>> support of >>> our cause, so get your address book and forward this link, >>> personalize it >>> with a few lines of message, get the word out there. >>> >>> The protest site has a league table on it at the bottom of the public >>> signatures page, it's dynamic and countries move about on the list. >>> To date >>> we've only had a tiny portion of blind people around the world sign up. >>> Spread the word folks. >>> >>> www.talknav.com/protest >>> >>> This issue rests squarely in your hands, make a difference today... >>> >>> Regards. >>> >>> Neil Barnfather. >>> >>> ___ >>> Access mailing list >>> acc...@accessusers.com >>> http://wfusers.com/mailman/listinfo/access >>> >>> Hosting of this list provided courte
RE: The Talk2 List Fw: [access] WFA User Protest
Exactly, the guys just being passionate to orgs who claim to fight on our behalf, Barry. -Original Message- From: mai...@andrelouis.com [mailto:mai...@andrelouis.com] On Behalf Of Onj Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 8:40 PM To: talk2 Subject: Re: The Talk2 List Fw: [access] WFA User Protest you're not head of a large blindy organisation, though. And though I agree with your standpoint, to a point, if I ask you, will you sign instead? I'm asking as someone who, unless Loadstone really decides to do something useful, will have no GPS undder his platform. You have Mobile Geo and you are lucky for that, however it shall be a cold day in hell I switch to Windows smart. Especially with all the incredibly um, interesting? changes they are trying to implement at this time. So, ignoring that message, which to be fair the guy did have a point, he wasn't saying it to individuals but to large organisations, please sign it. I can't ask more than that really. From: Stephen Clower on Monday, March 01, 2010 7:20 PM > So... he wants more signatures, but the only way he feels he can get > them is to insult everybody? I won't sign now simply because of the > author's attitude, despite his good intentions. > > Steve > > On 3/1/2010 2:12 PM, Onj wrote: >> I haven't seen a message on this list for months. Why not let the >> content of this message speak for itself? >> >> From: Neil Barnfather - TalkNav >> on Monday, March 01, 2010 6:02 PM >> >>> A quick note to all of you who have, and those who as of yet have not >>> signed >>> the WFA user protest site. >>> >>> Before I start my message the link right here and now is >>> www.talknav.com/protest >>> >>> Firstly, a note to all of you who have signed, thank you, but I have >>> to at >>> this stage say that it is way too few who have made this effort. We are >>> nearing 700, yet for Vodafone to take this seriously we need thousands. >>> >>> To date we've not even got close to even the number of users of the >>> application signing, let alone additional support. >>> >>> Can I especially ask those of you who either work with or for the >>> organizations that supposedly represent us as blind folk, yes you >>> lot, those >>> of you at the RNIB, CNIB, AFB, NFB, etc, etc, you lot really have >>> made me >>> rather upset and irritated. >>> >>> To date I've posted two messages via each of your web-sites informing >>> you >>> all of our protest, has any one of you got back to me to ask for more >>> detail, have you mass mailed your members, have you lobbied in our >>> favour, >>> have you, no sir. Is this an outrage, is this a complete lack of >>> competence >>> when it comes to supporting those who you claim to represent? This >>> individual thinks so. So if you represent, or have a contact at your >>> local >>> blind organization please forward this message, we, or certainly I, >>> am very, >>> very disappointed in you all. >>> >>> As for those private individuals who have not yet signed, even if you >>> do not >>> own Access or a Symbian phone, your name should be on this list, the >>> list >>> says something about who we are and what we stand for as blind folks, >>> it >>> says that we will not lay down and be ignored whilst our tools to >>> freedom >>> and mobility are stolen from us. It says we have a voice and we are >>> prepared >>> to use it when necessary. >>> >>> This protest is about more than just Wayfinder Access, it is a >>> symbol, now >>> please, I urge you all, we need this link spreading, we need it >>> sharing, >>> Face Book pages, Twitter, those of you who produce pod casts, mailing >>> lists >>> etc, etc, if you believe in your freedom to mobility and your rights to >>> accessible products then make your mark. >>> >>> More than this, those you know need to say that they too are in >>> support of >>> our cause, so get your address book and forward this link, >>> personalize it >>> with a few lines of message, get the word out there. >>> >>> The protest site has a league table on it at the bottom of the public >>> signatures page, it's dynamic and countries move about on the list. >>> To date >>> we've only had a tiny portion of blind people around the world sign up. >>> Spread the word folks. >>> >>> www.talk
Re: The Talk2 List Fw: [access] WFA User Protest
and, symbian is changing the UI to a better GUI which is visually appealing and doesnt look like a dos app from 1996. Tthe problem with this new GUI is its very lacking in the accessibility department. and will probably take screen reader venders several years to redesign things to work with the new UI. The s60 UI sucks and symbian knows it cant compete if they dont make it more visually apealing and more user friendly. They realize for example that it shouldnt take 12 taps/keystrokes just to create the email account on the phone. On 3/1/2010 2:13 PM, Stephen Clower wrote: It's open source, but to release it that way, Nokia had to remove a lot of closed-source components that are critical to the platform itself. If you compiled and installed what's on the internet right now, you'd end up with a brick. Steve On 3/1/2010 5:11 PM, shaun everiss wrote: hmph. thought symbian was opensource. oh well what exactly will we all use after all that goes away. not that I care much there will probably be for the forseeable future old phones mine still works. I suppose we will have to use all the broken windows and simlinux systems then. android looks promising though the google nexus was a joke really was. Its a pitty we can't just have a version of win7 or xp on a mobile. Its a shame that the only phone that is mac is an iphone. Would like to have hmm a mac powerphone imagine what cool things I would be able to do with that. At 10:54 a.m. 2/03/2010, you wrote: Given what's out there right now, it can't be done. Platforms are very, very different, and a lot of what products like Orca or NVDA need to operate aren't present on handsets. Android is based on Linux, by the way. A screen reader is in the works, and while it's not very useful now, it may be great given another year or two of development. Nokia is abandoning Simbian as we all know it in loo of a Linux/Simbian hybrid which is just as broken as Windows Phone 7 will be Steve On 3/1/2010 4:51 PM, shaun everiss wrote: hmph. well I myself think simbian rocks. win mobile, well from what I hear it crashes like no one's business. On that note wander why no one has designed something around a linux distro, ubuntu, maybe nvda and something else. could probably work to. and you could run linux apps on your mobile. At 10:35 a.m. 2/03/2010, you wrote: I suspect everyone on that list has already signed. He needs to get the word out through additional channels without trying to guilt trip the reader into signing it. Frankly though, I don't think there will be much luck. A telecomm company that has hundreds of thousands of customers doesn't care about a thousand blind people, no matter how angry they get. Just look at what Microsoft is doing to Windows Mobile; yanking the rug out from under everyone with no regards to keeping products like MobileSpeak functional. Why petition? Microsoft obviously doesn't give a flip, and neither do these guys. As much as I like MobileSpeak and especially Mobile Geo, I'll be banking on the Android platform in a few years when both WM and Simbian are dead. Steve On 3/1/2010 3:39 PM, Onj wrote: you're not head of a large blindy organisation, though. And though I agree with your standpoint, to a point, if I ask you, will you sign instead? I'm asking as someone who, unless Loadstone really decides to do something useful, will have no GPS undder his platform. You have Mobile Geo and you are lucky for that, however it shall be a cold day in hell I switch to Windows smart. Especially with all the incredibly um, interesting? changes they are trying to implement at this time. So, ignoring that message, which to be fair the guy did have a point, he wasn't saying it to individuals but to large organisations, please sign it. I can't ask more than that really. From: Stephen Clower on Monday, March 01, 2010 7:20 PM So... he wants more signatures, but the only way he feels he can get them is to insult everybody? I won't sign now simply because of the author's attitude, despite his good intentions. Steve On 3/1/2010 2:12 PM, Onj wrote: I haven't seen a message on this list for months. Why not let the content of this message speak for itself? From: Neil Barnfather - TalkNav on Monday, March 01, 2010 6:02 PM A quick note to all of you who have, and those who as of yet have not signed the WFA user protest site. Before I start my message the link right here and now is www.talknav.com/protest Firstly, a note to all of you who have signed, thank you, but I have to at this stage say that it is way too few who have made this effort. We are nearing 700, yet for Vodafone to take this seriously we need thousands. To date we've not even got close to even the number of users of the application signing, let alone additional support. Can I especially ask those of you who either work with or for the organizations that supposedly represent us as blind folk, yes you lot, those of y
Re: The Talk2 List Fw: [access] WFA User Protest
It's open source, but to release it that way, Nokia had to remove a lot of closed-source components that are critical to the platform itself. If you compiled and installed what's on the internet right now, you'd end up with a brick. Steve On 3/1/2010 5:11 PM, shaun everiss wrote: hmph. thought symbian was opensource. oh well what exactly will we all use after all that goes away. not that I care much there will probably be for the forseeable future old phones mine still works. I suppose we will have to use all the broken windows and simlinux systems then. android looks promising though the google nexus was a joke really was. Its a pitty we can't just have a version of win7 or xp on a mobile. Its a shame that the only phone that is mac is an iphone. Would like to have hmm a mac powerphone imagine what cool things I would be able to do with that. At 10:54 a.m. 2/03/2010, you wrote: Given what's out there right now, it can't be done. Platforms are very, very different, and a lot of what products like Orca or NVDA need to operate aren't present on handsets. Android is based on Linux, by the way. A screen reader is in the works, and while it's not very useful now, it may be great given another year or two of development. Nokia is abandoning Simbian as we all know it in loo of a Linux/Simbian hybrid which is just as broken as Windows Phone 7 will be Steve On 3/1/2010 4:51 PM, shaun everiss wrote: hmph. well I myself think simbian rocks. win mobile, well from what I hear it crashes like no one's business. On that note wander why no one has designed something around a linux distro, ubuntu, maybe nvda and something else. could probably work to. and you could run linux apps on your mobile. At 10:35 a.m. 2/03/2010, you wrote: I suspect everyone on that list has already signed. He needs to get the word out through additional channels without trying to guilt trip the reader into signing it. Frankly though, I don't think there will be much luck. A telecomm company that has hundreds of thousands of customers doesn't care about a thousand blind people, no matter how angry they get. Just look at what Microsoft is doing to Windows Mobile; yanking the rug out from under everyone with no regards to keeping products like MobileSpeak functional. Why petition? Microsoft obviously doesn't give a flip, and neither do these guys. As much as I like MobileSpeak and especially Mobile Geo, I'll be banking on the Android platform in a few years when both WM and Simbian are dead. Steve On 3/1/2010 3:39 PM, Onj wrote: you're not head of a large blindy organisation, though. And though I agree with your standpoint, to a point, if I ask you, will you sign instead? I'm asking as someone who, unless Loadstone really decides to do something useful, will have no GPS undder his platform. You have Mobile Geo and you are lucky for that, however it shall be a cold day in hell I switch to Windows smart. Especially with all the incredibly um, interesting? changes they are trying to implement at this time. So, ignoring that message, which to be fair the guy did have a point, he wasn't saying it to individuals but to large organisations, please sign it. I can't ask more than that really. From: Stephen Clower on Monday, March 01, 2010 7:20 PM So... he wants more signatures, but the only way he feels he can get them is to insult everybody? I won't sign now simply because of the author's attitude, despite his good intentions. Steve On 3/1/2010 2:12 PM, Onj wrote: I haven't seen a message on this list for months. Why not let the content of this message speak for itself? From: Neil Barnfather - TalkNav on Monday, March 01, 2010 6:02 PM A quick note to all of you who have, and those who as of yet have not signed the WFA user protest site. Before I start my message the link right here and now is www.talknav.com/protest Firstly, a note to all of you who have signed, thank you, but I have to at this stage say that it is way too few who have made this effort. We are nearing 700, yet for Vodafone to take this seriously we need thousands. To date we've not even got close to even the number of users of the application signing, let alone additional support. Can I especially ask those of you who either work with or for the organizations that supposedly represent us as blind folk, yes you lot, those of you at the RNIB, CNIB, AFB, NFB, etc, etc, you lot really have made me rather upset and irritated. To date I've posted two messages via each of your web-sites informing you all of our protest, has any one of you got back to me to ask for more detail, have you mass mailed your members, have you lobbied in our favour, have you, no sir. Is this an outrage, is this a complete lack of competence when it comes to supporting those who you claim to represent? This individual thinks so. So if you represent, or have a contact at your local blind
Re: The Talk2 List Fw: [access] WFA User Protest
hmph. thought symbian was opensource. oh well what exactly will we all use after all that goes away. not that I care much there will probably be for the forseeable future old phones mine still works. I suppose we will have to use all the broken windows and simlinux systems then. android looks promising though the google nexus was a joke really was. Its a pitty we can't just have a version of win7 or xp on a mobile. Its a shame that the only phone that is mac is an iphone. Would like to have hmm a mac powerphone imagine what cool things I would be able to do with that. At 10:54 a.m. 2/03/2010, you wrote: >Given what's out there right now, it can't be done. Platforms are very, very >different, and a lot of what products like Orca or NVDA need to operate aren't >present on handsets. Android is based on Linux, by the way. A screen reader is >in the works, and while it's not very useful now, it may be great given >another year or two of development. Nokia is abandoning Simbian as we all know >it in loo of a Linux/Simbian hybrid which is just as broken as Windows Phone 7 >will be > >Steve > > >On 3/1/2010 4:51 PM, shaun everiss wrote: >>hmph. >>well I myself think simbian rocks. >>win mobile, well from what I hear it crashes like no one's business. >>On that note wander why no one has designed something around a linux distro, >>ubuntu, maybe nvda and something else. >>could probably work to. >>and you could run linux apps on your mobile. >>At 10:35 a.m. 2/03/2010, you wrote: >> >>>I suspect everyone on that list has already signed. He needs to get the word >>>out through additional channels without trying to guilt trip the reader into >>>signing it. Frankly though, I don't think there will be much luck. A >>>telecomm company that has hundreds of thousands of customers doesn't care >>>about a thousand blind people, no matter how angry they get. Just look at >>>what Microsoft is doing to Windows Mobile; yanking the rug out from under >>>everyone with no regards to keeping products like MobileSpeak functional. >>>Why petition? Microsoft obviously doesn't give a flip, and neither do these >>>guys. >>> >>>As much as I like MobileSpeak and especially Mobile Geo, I'll be banking on >>>the Android platform in a few years when both WM and Simbian are dead. >>> >>>Steve >>> >>> >>>On 3/1/2010 3:39 PM, Onj wrote: >>> you're not head of a large blindy organisation, though. And though I agree with your standpoint, to a point, if I ask you, will you sign instead? I'm asking as someone who, unless Loadstone really decides to do something useful, will have no GPS undder his platform. You have Mobile Geo and you are lucky for that, however it shall be a cold day in hell I switch to Windows smart. Especially with all the incredibly um, interesting? changes they are trying to implement at this time. So, ignoring that message, which to be fair the guy did have a point, he wasn't saying it to individuals but to large organisations, please sign it. I can't ask more than that really. From: Stephen Clower on Monday, March 01, 2010 7:20 PM >So... he wants more signatures, but the only way he feels he can get >them is to insult everybody? I won't sign now simply because of the >author's attitude, despite his good intentions. > >Steve > >On 3/1/2010 2:12 PM, Onj wrote: > >>I haven't seen a message on this list for months. Why not let the >>content of this message speak for itself? >> >>From: Neil Barnfather - TalkNav >>on Monday, March 01, 2010 6:02 PM >> >> >>>A quick note to all of you who have, and those who as of yet have not >>>signed >>>the WFA user protest site. >>> >>>Before I start my message the link right here and now is >>>www.talknav.com/protest >>> >>>Firstly, a note to all of you who have signed, thank you, but I have >>>to at >>>this stage say that it is way too few who have made this effort. We are >>>nearing 700, yet for Vodafone to take this seriously we need thousands. >>> >>>To date we've not even got close to even the number of users of the >>>application signing, let alone additional support. >>> >>>Can I especially ask those of you who either work with or for the >>>organizations that supposedly represent us as blind folk, yes you >>>lot, those >>>of you at the RNIB, CNIB, AFB, NFB, etc, etc, you lot really have >>>made me >>>rather upset and irritated. >>> >>>To date I've posted two messages via each of your web-sites informing >>>you >>>all of our protest, has any one of you got back to me to ask for more >>>detail, have you mass mailed your members, have you lobbied in our >>>favour, >>>have you, no sir. Is this an outrage, is this a complete lack of >>>competence >>>when it comes to supporting those who yo
Re: The Talk2 List Fw: [access] WFA User Protest
Given what's out there right now, it can't be done. Platforms are very, very different, and a lot of what products like Orca or NVDA need to operate aren't present on handsets. Android is based on Linux, by the way. A screen reader is in the works, and while it's not very useful now, it may be great given another year or two of development. Nokia is abandoning Simbian as we all know it in loo of a Linux/Simbian hybrid which is just as broken as Windows Phone 7 will be Steve On 3/1/2010 4:51 PM, shaun everiss wrote: hmph. well I myself think simbian rocks. win mobile, well from what I hear it crashes like no one's business. On that note wander why no one has designed something around a linux distro, ubuntu, maybe nvda and something else. could probably work to. and you could run linux apps on your mobile. At 10:35 a.m. 2/03/2010, you wrote: I suspect everyone on that list has already signed. He needs to get the word out through additional channels without trying to guilt trip the reader into signing it. Frankly though, I don't think there will be much luck. A telecomm company that has hundreds of thousands of customers doesn't care about a thousand blind people, no matter how angry they get. Just look at what Microsoft is doing to Windows Mobile; yanking the rug out from under everyone with no regards to keeping products like MobileSpeak functional. Why petition? Microsoft obviously doesn't give a flip, and neither do these guys. As much as I like MobileSpeak and especially Mobile Geo, I'll be banking on the Android platform in a few years when both WM and Simbian are dead. Steve On 3/1/2010 3:39 PM, Onj wrote: you're not head of a large blindy organisation, though. And though I agree with your standpoint, to a point, if I ask you, will you sign instead? I'm asking as someone who, unless Loadstone really decides to do something useful, will have no GPS undder his platform. You have Mobile Geo and you are lucky for that, however it shall be a cold day in hell I switch to Windows smart. Especially with all the incredibly um, interesting? changes they are trying to implement at this time. So, ignoring that message, which to be fair the guy did have a point, he wasn't saying it to individuals but to large organisations, please sign it. I can't ask more than that really. From: Stephen Clower on Monday, March 01, 2010 7:20 PM So... he wants more signatures, but the only way he feels he can get them is to insult everybody? I won't sign now simply because of the author's attitude, despite his good intentions. Steve On 3/1/2010 2:12 PM, Onj wrote: I haven't seen a message on this list for months. Why not let the content of this message speak for itself? From: Neil Barnfather - TalkNav on Monday, March 01, 2010 6:02 PM A quick note to all of you who have, and those who as of yet have not signed the WFA user protest site. Before I start my message the link right here and now is www.talknav.com/protest Firstly, a note to all of you who have signed, thank you, but I have to at this stage say that it is way too few who have made this effort. We are nearing 700, yet for Vodafone to take this seriously we need thousands. To date we've not even got close to even the number of users of the application signing, let alone additional support. Can I especially ask those of you who either work with or for the organizations that supposedly represent us as blind folk, yes you lot, those of you at the RNIB, CNIB, AFB, NFB, etc, etc, you lot really have made me rather upset and irritated. To date I've posted two messages via each of your web-sites informing you all of our protest, has any one of you got back to me to ask for more detail, have you mass mailed your members, have you lobbied in our favour, have you, no sir. Is this an outrage, is this a complete lack of competence when it comes to supporting those who you claim to represent? This individual thinks so. So if you represent, or have a contact at your local blind organization please forward this message, we, or certainly I, am very, very disappointed in you all. As for those private individuals who have not yet signed, even if you do not own Access or a Symbian phone, your name should be on this list, the list says something about who we are and what we stand for as blind folks, it says that we will not lay down and be ignored whilst our tools to freedom and mobility are stolen from us. It says we have a voice and we are prepared to use it when necessary. This protest is about more than just Wayfinder Access, it is a symbol, now please, I urge you all, we need this link spreading, we need it sharing, Face Book pages, Twitter, those of you who produce pod casts, mailing lists etc, etc, if you believe in your freedom to mobility and your rights to accessible products then make your mark. More than this, those you know need to say that they too are in support of our cause, so get y
Re: The Talk2 List Fw: [access] WFA User Protest
hmph. well I myself think simbian rocks. win mobile, well from what I hear it crashes like no one's business. On that note wander why no one has designed something around a linux distro, ubuntu, maybe nvda and something else. could probably work to. and you could run linux apps on your mobile. At 10:35 a.m. 2/03/2010, you wrote: >I suspect everyone on that list has already signed. He needs to get the word >out through additional channels without trying to guilt trip the reader into >signing it. Frankly though, I don't think there will be much luck. A telecomm >company that has hundreds of thousands of customers doesn't care about a >thousand blind people, no matter how angry they get. Just look at what >Microsoft is doing to Windows Mobile; yanking the rug out from under everyone >with no regards to keeping products like MobileSpeak functional. Why petition? >Microsoft obviously doesn't give a flip, and neither do these guys. > >As much as I like MobileSpeak and especially Mobile Geo, I'll be banking on >the Android platform in a few years when both WM and Simbian are dead. > >Steve > > >On 3/1/2010 3:39 PM, Onj wrote: >>you're not head of a large blindy organisation, though. And though I agree >>with your standpoint, to a point, if I ask you, will you sign instead? I'm >>asking as someone who, unless Loadstone really decides to do something >>useful, will have no GPS undder his platform. You have Mobile Geo and you >>are lucky for that, however it shall be a cold day in hell I switch to >>Windows smart. Especially with all the incredibly um, interesting? changes >>they are trying to implement at this time. >>So, ignoring that message, which to be fair the guy did have a point, he >>wasn't saying it to individuals but to large organisations, please sign it. I >>can't ask more than that really. >> >>From: Stephen Clower >>on Monday, March 01, 2010 7:20 PM >> >>>So... he wants more signatures, but the only way he feels he can get >>>them is to insult everybody? I won't sign now simply because of the >>>author's attitude, despite his good intentions. >>> >>>Steve >>> >>>On 3/1/2010 2:12 PM, Onj wrote: I haven't seen a message on this list for months. Why not let the content of this message speak for itself? From: Neil Barnfather - TalkNav on Monday, March 01, 2010 6:02 PM >A quick note to all of you who have, and those who as of yet have not >signed >the WFA user protest site. > >Before I start my message the link right here and now is >www.talknav.com/protest > >Firstly, a note to all of you who have signed, thank you, but I have >to at >this stage say that it is way too few who have made this effort. We are >nearing 700, yet for Vodafone to take this seriously we need thousands. > >To date we've not even got close to even the number of users of the >application signing, let alone additional support. > >Can I especially ask those of you who either work with or for the >organizations that supposedly represent us as blind folk, yes you >lot, those >of you at the RNIB, CNIB, AFB, NFB, etc, etc, you lot really have >made me >rather upset and irritated. > >To date I've posted two messages via each of your web-sites informing >you >all of our protest, has any one of you got back to me to ask for more >detail, have you mass mailed your members, have you lobbied in our >favour, >have you, no sir. Is this an outrage, is this a complete lack of >competence >when it comes to supporting those who you claim to represent? This >individual thinks so. So if you represent, or have a contact at your >local >blind organization please forward this message, we, or certainly I, >am very, >very disappointed in you all. > >As for those private individuals who have not yet signed, even if you >do not >own Access or a Symbian phone, your name should be on this list, the >list >says something about who we are and what we stand for as blind folks, it >says that we will not lay down and be ignored whilst our tools to >freedom >and mobility are stolen from us. It says we have a voice and we are >prepared >to use it when necessary. > >This protest is about more than just Wayfinder Access, it is a >symbol, now >please, I urge you all, we need this link spreading, we need it sharing, >Face Book pages, Twitter, those of you who produce pod casts, mailing >lists >etc, etc, if you believe in your freedom to mobility and your rights to >accessible products then make your mark. > >More than this, those you know need to say that they too are in >support of >our cause, so get your address book and forward this link, >personalize it >with a few lines of message, get the word out there. > >The protest site has a league table on it at the bottom of the publ
Re: The Talk2 List Fw: [access] WFA User Protest
I suspect everyone on that list has already signed. He needs to get the word out through additional channels without trying to guilt trip the reader into signing it. Frankly though, I don't think there will be much luck. A telecomm company that has hundreds of thousands of customers doesn't care about a thousand blind people, no matter how angry they get. Just look at what Microsoft is doing to Windows Mobile; yanking the rug out from under everyone with no regards to keeping products like MobileSpeak functional. Why petition? Microsoft obviously doesn't give a flip, and neither do these guys. As much as I like MobileSpeak and especially Mobile Geo, I'll be banking on the Android platform in a few years when both WM and Simbian are dead. Steve On 3/1/2010 3:39 PM, Onj wrote: you're not head of a large blindy organisation, though. And though I agree with your standpoint, to a point, if I ask you, will you sign instead? I'm asking as someone who, unless Loadstone really decides to do something useful, will have no GPS undder his platform. You have Mobile Geo and you are lucky for that, however it shall be a cold day in hell I switch to Windows smart. Especially with all the incredibly um, interesting? changes they are trying to implement at this time. So, ignoring that message, which to be fair the guy did have a point, he wasn't saying it to individuals but to large organisations, please sign it. I can't ask more than that really. From: Stephen Clower on Monday, March 01, 2010 7:20 PM So... he wants more signatures, but the only way he feels he can get them is to insult everybody? I won't sign now simply because of the author's attitude, despite his good intentions. Steve On 3/1/2010 2:12 PM, Onj wrote: I haven't seen a message on this list for months. Why not let the content of this message speak for itself? From: Neil Barnfather - TalkNav on Monday, March 01, 2010 6:02 PM A quick note to all of you who have, and those who as of yet have not signed the WFA user protest site. Before I start my message the link right here and now is www.talknav.com/protest Firstly, a note to all of you who have signed, thank you, but I have to at this stage say that it is way too few who have made this effort. We are nearing 700, yet for Vodafone to take this seriously we need thousands. To date we've not even got close to even the number of users of the application signing, let alone additional support. Can I especially ask those of you who either work with or for the organizations that supposedly represent us as blind folk, yes you lot, those of you at the RNIB, CNIB, AFB, NFB, etc, etc, you lot really have made me rather upset and irritated. To date I've posted two messages via each of your web-sites informing you all of our protest, has any one of you got back to me to ask for more detail, have you mass mailed your members, have you lobbied in our favour, have you, no sir. Is this an outrage, is this a complete lack of competence when it comes to supporting those who you claim to represent? This individual thinks so. So if you represent, or have a contact at your local blind organization please forward this message, we, or certainly I, am very, very disappointed in you all. As for those private individuals who have not yet signed, even if you do not own Access or a Symbian phone, your name should be on this list, the list says something about who we are and what we stand for as blind folks, it says that we will not lay down and be ignored whilst our tools to freedom and mobility are stolen from us. It says we have a voice and we are prepared to use it when necessary. This protest is about more than just Wayfinder Access, it is a symbol, now please, I urge you all, we need this link spreading, we need it sharing, Face Book pages, Twitter, those of you who produce pod casts, mailing lists etc, etc, if you believe in your freedom to mobility and your rights to accessible products then make your mark. More than this, those you know need to say that they too are in support of our cause, so get your address book and forward this link, personalize it with a few lines of message, get the word out there. The protest site has a league table on it at the bottom of the public signatures page, it's dynamic and countries move about on the list. To date we've only had a tiny portion of blind people around the world sign up. Spread the word folks. www.talknav.com/protest This issue rests squarely in your hands, make a difference today... Regards. Neil Barnfather. ___ Access mailing list acc...@accessusers.com http://wfusers.com/mailman/listinfo/access Hosting of this list provided courtesy of: eHosting Limited: http://www.ehosting.com/ and Talknav Inc. http://www.talknav.net/ Did you miss a message? Well, don't. http://www.mail-archive.com/talk2%40andrelouis.com/ has it for you. Never miss a Talk2 message again. Did
Re: The Talk2 List Fw: [access] WFA User Protest
Agreed. This message speaks of childish tantrums. Even the Freedom Scientific petition didn't get much over a thousand signatures, if even that. This one's not going to get much more. I thought about it until I got to about the third line of the message. Brandon Stephen Clower wrote: So... he wants more signatures, but the only way he feels he can get them is to insult everybody? I won't sign now simply because of the author's attitude, despite his good intentions. Steve On 3/1/2010 2:12 PM, Onj wrote: I haven't seen a message on this list for months. Why not let the content of this message speak for itself? From: Neil Barnfather - TalkNav on Monday, March 01, 2010 6:02 PM A quick note to all of you who have, and those who as of yet have not signed the WFA user protest site. Before I start my message the link right here and now is www.talknav.com/protest Firstly, a note to all of you who have signed, thank you, but I have to at this stage say that it is way too few who have made this effort. We are nearing 700, yet for Vodafone to take this seriously we need thousands. To date we've not even got close to even the number of users of the application signing, let alone additional support. Can I especially ask those of you who either work with or for the organizations that supposedly represent us as blind folk, yes you lot, those of you at the RNIB, CNIB, AFB, NFB, etc, etc, you lot really have made me rather upset and irritated. To date I've posted two messages via each of your web-sites informing you all of our protest, has any one of you got back to me to ask for more detail, have you mass mailed your members, have you lobbied in our favour, have you, no sir. Is this an outrage, is this a complete lack of competence when it comes to supporting those who you claim to represent? This individual thinks so. So if you represent, or have a contact at your local blind organization please forward this message, we, or certainly I, am very, very disappointed in you all. As for those private individuals who have not yet signed, even if you do not own Access or a Symbian phone, your name should be on this list, the list says something about who we are and what we stand for as blind folks, it says that we will not lay down and be ignored whilst our tools to freedom and mobility are stolen from us. It says we have a voice and we are prepared to use it when necessary. This protest is about more than just Wayfinder Access, it is a symbol, now please, I urge you all, we need this link spreading, we need it sharing, Face Book pages, Twitter, those of you who produce pod casts, mailing lists etc, etc, if you believe in your freedom to mobility and your rights to accessible products then make your mark. More than this, those you know need to say that they too are in support of our cause, so get your address book and forward this link, personalize it with a few lines of message, get the word out there. The protest site has a league table on it at the bottom of the public signatures page, it's dynamic and countries move about on the list. To date we've only had a tiny portion of blind people around the world sign up. Spread the word folks. www.talknav.com/protest This issue rests squarely in your hands, make a difference today... Regards. Neil Barnfather. ___ Access mailing list acc...@accessusers.com http://wfusers.com/mailman/listinfo/access Hosting of this list provided courtesy of: eHosting Limited: http://www.ehosting.com/ and Talknav Inc. http://www.talknav.net/ Did you miss a message? Well, don't. http://www.mail-archive.com/talk2%40andrelouis.com/ has it for you. Never miss a Talk2 message again. Did you miss a message? Well, don't. http://www.mail-archive.com/talk2%40andrelouis.com/ has it for you. Never miss a Talk2 message again. Did you miss a message? Well, don't. http://www.mail-archive.com/talk2%40andrelouis.com/ has it for you. Never miss a Talk2 message again.
Re: The Talk2 List Fw: [access] WFA User Protest
you're not head of a large blindy organisation, though. And though I agree with your standpoint, to a point, if I ask you, will you sign instead? I'm asking as someone who, unless Loadstone really decides to do something useful, will have no GPS undder his platform. You have Mobile Geo and you are lucky for that, however it shall be a cold day in hell I switch to Windows smart. Especially with all the incredibly um, interesting? changes they are trying to implement at this time. So, ignoring that message, which to be fair the guy did have a point, he wasn't saying it to individuals but to large organisations, please sign it. I can't ask more than that really. From: Stephen Clower on Monday, March 01, 2010 7:20 PM So... he wants more signatures, but the only way he feels he can get them is to insult everybody? I won't sign now simply because of the author's attitude, despite his good intentions. Steve On 3/1/2010 2:12 PM, Onj wrote: I haven't seen a message on this list for months. Why not let the content of this message speak for itself? From: Neil Barnfather - TalkNav on Monday, March 01, 2010 6:02 PM A quick note to all of you who have, and those who as of yet have not signed the WFA user protest site. Before I start my message the link right here and now is www.talknav.com/protest Firstly, a note to all of you who have signed, thank you, but I have to at this stage say that it is way too few who have made this effort. We are nearing 700, yet for Vodafone to take this seriously we need thousands. To date we've not even got close to even the number of users of the application signing, let alone additional support. Can I especially ask those of you who either work with or for the organizations that supposedly represent us as blind folk, yes you lot, those of you at the RNIB, CNIB, AFB, NFB, etc, etc, you lot really have made me rather upset and irritated. To date I've posted two messages via each of your web-sites informing you all of our protest, has any one of you got back to me to ask for more detail, have you mass mailed your members, have you lobbied in our favour, have you, no sir. Is this an outrage, is this a complete lack of competence when it comes to supporting those who you claim to represent? This individual thinks so. So if you represent, or have a contact at your local blind organization please forward this message, we, or certainly I, am very, very disappointed in you all. As for those private individuals who have not yet signed, even if you do not own Access or a Symbian phone, your name should be on this list, the list says something about who we are and what we stand for as blind folks, it says that we will not lay down and be ignored whilst our tools to freedom and mobility are stolen from us. It says we have a voice and we are prepared to use it when necessary. This protest is about more than just Wayfinder Access, it is a symbol, now please, I urge you all, we need this link spreading, we need it sharing, Face Book pages, Twitter, those of you who produce pod casts, mailing lists etc, etc, if you believe in your freedom to mobility and your rights to accessible products then make your mark. More than this, those you know need to say that they too are in support of our cause, so get your address book and forward this link, personalize it with a few lines of message, get the word out there. The protest site has a league table on it at the bottom of the public signatures page, it's dynamic and countries move about on the list. To date we've only had a tiny portion of blind people around the world sign up. Spread the word folks. www.talknav.com/protest This issue rests squarely in your hands, make a difference today... Regards. Neil Barnfather. ___ Access mailing list acc...@accessusers.com http://wfusers.com/mailman/listinfo/access Hosting of this list provided courtesy of: eHosting Limited: http://www.ehosting.com/ and Talknav Inc. http://www.talknav.net/ Did you miss a message? Well, don't. http://www.mail-archive.com/talk2%40andrelouis.com/ has it for you. Never miss a Talk2 message again. Did you miss a message? Well, don't. http://www.mail-archive.com/talk2%40andrelouis.com/ has it for you. Never miss a Talk2 message again. Did you miss a message? Well, don't. http://www.mail-archive.com/talk2%40andrelouis.com/ has it for you. Never miss a Talk2 message again.
Re: The Talk2 List Fw: [access] WFA User Protest
Agreed Steve. Maybe if he was nicer, and asked kindly, i would have considered it. Luckily you posted, because right to the delete button I was going. On 3/1/10, Stephen Clower wrote: > So... he wants more signatures, but the only way he feels he can get > them is to insult everybody? I won't sign now simply because of the > author's attitude, despite his good intentions. > > Steve > > On 3/1/2010 2:12 PM, Onj wrote: >> I haven't seen a message on this list for months. Why not let the >> content of this message speak for itself? >> >> From: Neil Barnfather - TalkNav >> on Monday, March 01, 2010 6:02 PM >> >>> A quick note to all of you who have, and those who as of yet have not >>> signed >>> the WFA user protest site. >>> >>> Before I start my message the link right here and now is >>> www.talknav.com/protest >>> >>> Firstly, a note to all of you who have signed, thank you, but I have >>> to at >>> this stage say that it is way too few who have made this effort. We are >>> nearing 700, yet for Vodafone to take this seriously we need thousands. >>> >>> To date we've not even got close to even the number of users of the >>> application signing, let alone additional support. >>> >>> Can I especially ask those of you who either work with or for the >>> organizations that supposedly represent us as blind folk, yes you >>> lot, those >>> of you at the RNIB, CNIB, AFB, NFB, etc, etc, you lot really have >>> made me >>> rather upset and irritated. >>> >>> To date I've posted two messages via each of your web-sites informing >>> you >>> all of our protest, has any one of you got back to me to ask for more >>> detail, have you mass mailed your members, have you lobbied in our >>> favour, >>> have you, no sir. Is this an outrage, is this a complete lack of >>> competence >>> when it comes to supporting those who you claim to represent? This >>> individual thinks so. So if you represent, or have a contact at your >>> local >>> blind organization please forward this message, we, or certainly I, >>> am very, >>> very disappointed in you all. >>> >>> As for those private individuals who have not yet signed, even if you >>> do not >>> own Access or a Symbian phone, your name should be on this list, the >>> list >>> says something about who we are and what we stand for as blind folks, it >>> says that we will not lay down and be ignored whilst our tools to >>> freedom >>> and mobility are stolen from us. It says we have a voice and we are >>> prepared >>> to use it when necessary. >>> >>> This protest is about more than just Wayfinder Access, it is a >>> symbol, now >>> please, I urge you all, we need this link spreading, we need it sharing, >>> Face Book pages, Twitter, those of you who produce pod casts, mailing >>> lists >>> etc, etc, if you believe in your freedom to mobility and your rights to >>> accessible products then make your mark. >>> >>> More than this, those you know need to say that they too are in >>> support of >>> our cause, so get your address book and forward this link, >>> personalize it >>> with a few lines of message, get the word out there. >>> >>> The protest site has a league table on it at the bottom of the public >>> signatures page, it's dynamic and countries move about on the list. >>> To date >>> we've only had a tiny portion of blind people around the world sign up. >>> Spread the word folks. >>> >>> www.talknav.com/protest >>> >>> This issue rests squarely in your hands, make a difference today... >>> >>> Regards. >>> >>> Neil Barnfather. >>> >>> ___ >>> Access mailing list >>> acc...@accessusers.com >>> http://wfusers.com/mailman/listinfo/access >>> >>> Hosting of this list provided courtesy of: >>> eHosting Limited: http://www.ehosting.com/ >>> and >>> Talknav Inc. http://www.talknav.net/ >> >> >> >> >> Did you miss a message? Well, don't. >> http://www.mail-archive.com/talk2%40andrelouis.com/ >> has it for you. Never miss a Talk2 message again. > > > > Did you miss a message? Well, don't. > http://www.mail-archive.com/talk2%40andrelouis.com/ > has it for you. Never miss a Talk2 message again. > -- Daniel C Romero Paterson New Jersey Cell Phone: 973-955-6955 Studio/Office: 973-707-6844 MSN messenger/E-mail: djdan...@gmail.com Aim: RadioDJ246 Skype: radiodj246 Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/djdan567 Did you miss a message? Well, don't. http://www.mail-archive.com/talk2%40andrelouis.com/ has it for you. Never miss a Talk2 message again.
Re: The Talk2 List Fw: [access] WFA User Protest
So... he wants more signatures, but the only way he feels he can get them is to insult everybody? I won't sign now simply because of the author's attitude, despite his good intentions. Steve On 3/1/2010 2:12 PM, Onj wrote: I haven't seen a message on this list for months. Why not let the content of this message speak for itself? From: Neil Barnfather - TalkNav on Monday, March 01, 2010 6:02 PM A quick note to all of you who have, and those who as of yet have not signed the WFA user protest site. Before I start my message the link right here and now is www.talknav.com/protest Firstly, a note to all of you who have signed, thank you, but I have to at this stage say that it is way too few who have made this effort. We are nearing 700, yet for Vodafone to take this seriously we need thousands. To date we've not even got close to even the number of users of the application signing, let alone additional support. Can I especially ask those of you who either work with or for the organizations that supposedly represent us as blind folk, yes you lot, those of you at the RNIB, CNIB, AFB, NFB, etc, etc, you lot really have made me rather upset and irritated. To date I've posted two messages via each of your web-sites informing you all of our protest, has any one of you got back to me to ask for more detail, have you mass mailed your members, have you lobbied in our favour, have you, no sir. Is this an outrage, is this a complete lack of competence when it comes to supporting those who you claim to represent? This individual thinks so. So if you represent, or have a contact at your local blind organization please forward this message, we, or certainly I, am very, very disappointed in you all. As for those private individuals who have not yet signed, even if you do not own Access or a Symbian phone, your name should be on this list, the list says something about who we are and what we stand for as blind folks, it says that we will not lay down and be ignored whilst our tools to freedom and mobility are stolen from us. It says we have a voice and we are prepared to use it when necessary. This protest is about more than just Wayfinder Access, it is a symbol, now please, I urge you all, we need this link spreading, we need it sharing, Face Book pages, Twitter, those of you who produce pod casts, mailing lists etc, etc, if you believe in your freedom to mobility and your rights to accessible products then make your mark. More than this, those you know need to say that they too are in support of our cause, so get your address book and forward this link, personalize it with a few lines of message, get the word out there. The protest site has a league table on it at the bottom of the public signatures page, it's dynamic and countries move about on the list. To date we've only had a tiny portion of blind people around the world sign up. Spread the word folks. www.talknav.com/protest This issue rests squarely in your hands, make a difference today... Regards. Neil Barnfather. ___ Access mailing list acc...@accessusers.com http://wfusers.com/mailman/listinfo/access Hosting of this list provided courtesy of: eHosting Limited: http://www.ehosting.com/ and Talknav Inc. http://www.talknav.net/ Did you miss a message? Well, don't. http://www.mail-archive.com/talk2%40andrelouis.com/ has it for you. Never miss a Talk2 message again. Did you miss a message? Well, don't. http://www.mail-archive.com/talk2%40andrelouis.com/ has it for you. Never miss a Talk2 message again.
