[tw] Re: Voicing Futures ...

[tejjyid]

On Friday, 17 March 2017 03:14:39 UTC+11, A M Alfaro wrote:
>
> Arlen,
>
>
> I'm a part of the minority which cannot use USB sticks at work. Security 
> recognizes and blocks flash drives. The more restrictive my environment 
> becomes, the more I dread the day I can't even get TW at work. I tired to 
> email a copy of my project management wiki to myself at home and it was 
> blocked based on content and file size. I imagine one day I won't be able 
> to email myself an empty wiki from home to work, which is what I did to get 
> it last month. I could get to the website but couldn't download an empty 
> copy.
>
> ---
>
> And
>
>
> I think I get the analogy you're trying to make, but I believe the premise 
> is slightly off because Excel is a complete package, meaning it's designed 
> from top to bottom for all "parts" to work together. Tiddlywiki and the 
> browsers are not designed that way. The only way to solve that would be for 
> Jeremy to repackage the single file application as that "Excel"-type of 
> program. I don't know anything about the JSON side of TW, so it could be 
> that it provides this type of solution (?).
>

No - I haven't expressed myself clearly, but I think we actually agree. The 
problem is that TW *isn't* a single-file architecture. It needs other 
programs to support it, not just an OS. and now, increasingly those 
programs don't. So I think the problem is deep.  

>
> Also for clarification, TiddlyFox is just a FireFox addon that smooths the 
> user's saving experience. It isn't a tool being manipulated by TW which 
> seems to be how you're describing it. In fact, what you're describing as 
> the future of TW is already in trouble and continues to be TW's recurring 
> problem. Browser security continues to evolve in ways that close off the 
> function TW needs to smoothly save over itself. That elegance is at the 
> mercy of the browser developers. 
>
> My bad - I was thinking TiddlyDesk, but my fingers were thinking something 
else. IMO TiddlyDesk is the only future of the so-called single-file TW.
 

> 
>
>
> I completely get that mine is an unpopular opinion but I'm not seeing any 
> way around it: Jeremy's fallback measure of using the Save dialog will 
> become the only available way of saving TW in the future. I don't think of 
> it as inelegant; I think TW users just aren't used to it and are loathe to 
> accept it. Like I said before, we got used to a different experience. We 
> have the expectation of it. Maybe it's time we reset our expectations on 
> this one thing? Is it truly so disruptive to the user experience? I don't 
> think so.
>
> From my point of view, it's actually much easier now that TW "falls back" 
> to the Save dialog.
>
> Peace,
> Anita
>

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Re: [tw] TW5 - Another RSOD suggestion

[tejjyid]

That's my experience too. I've never seen it when it wasn't my fault. 
That's why I feel the apology is awkward, because mainly it will be the 
user at fault. The communication is well-intentioned, but it doesn't match 
the pragmatics of the situation. That kind of mismatch is what I was 
looking to avoid. But look, I don't want to waste your time on it. As a 
final compromise/suggestion, how about "Sorry, but this might be serious. 
To protect your data..." But I will absolutely be happy with your final 
call. Otherwise this kind of discussion can go on for years!

Thanks for taking the time over this.

Andrew   

On Wednesday, 15 March 2017 21:33:39 UTC+11, PMario wrote:
>
> On Wednesday, March 15, 2017 at 11:03:52 AM UTC+1, tejjyid wrote:
>>
>> "We are sorry!" is better than "This is embarrassing", although I would 
>> omit both myself. I guess that depends on how often the RSOD is seen as a 
>> result of user activity, vs system bug appearance. Obviously in the latter 
>> case, if feels right to apologise. I prefer "To protect your data you need 
>> to restart TiddlyWiki". If we stick with "highly recommend", I prefer 
>> "restarting", but that may be Australian dialect.
>>
>
> IMO the core and tiddlywiki/plugins don't throw RSOD often. .. I 
> personally only see it during development. And there, I don't even read it, 
> since I have more info in the dev panel. .. 
>
> So for users I'd go with "We are sorry! ... " because, it really shouldn't 
> happen. 
>
> We could also provide a link, to open a new issue at github. Similar to this 
> one <https://github.com/wikilabs/policy-test/issues/new>, that Mat and I 
> created at the last EU meeting. ... It didn't make to TW yet and I didn't 
> push it, since we already have enough pending PRs :/
>
> -m
>

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[tw] Re: Voicing Futures ...

[tejjyid]

I'll try again, but my posts keep getting deleted...if anyone can help me 
that it'd be appreciated...

I don't think it's right to characterise the problems as being with the 
single file architecture, because I don't really see TW as a single file 
architecture, any more than Excel. TW is a program and a data file, as is 
Excel. The difference is that the program for TW is called the browser. We 
think about the TW program as being that part of the data in the file that 
gets executed, but that's really analogous to VBA code. 

*Program*   - 
File
Excel
   Application functions
   Enables VBA- 
user code (VBA, formulas); data
   File IO
Browser
   Enables JS - 
application functions (JS, macros, widgets); user code (ditto); data
   ?FIle IO?

  
The problem occurs because the TW driving program, the browser, is not 
longer fit for purpose. If Excel stopped saving spreadsheets, that'd 
obviously be a pretty major disaster. TW, though, doesn't control the 
browser, so we have to take our lumps when it does stop saving.

I switched to using Firefox for TW (from Chrome) because of the extension 
which allowed overwrite saves. The save(n+1) option is rubbish; I mean it's 
doable, obviously, but it is not convenient. It's not a user-winning 
experience. If that goes, I guess I'll switch to using Tiddlyfox, which 
seems to be OK. It's the program TW controls which can run TW and also 
save. It's a pity to lose the "elegance" of running with a program that is 
already readily available, but in terms of offline user experience , 
downloading a program, installing it and running it is not a big challenge 
for most people. 

I think the future will be TFox for standalone; browser for online; Node 
for the minority; offline browser for the rest, and I don't really see a 
problem with that. It's more user-friendly, IMO, than running TW on top of 
a database. No matter how hard people work to make the underlying 
technology transparent, I think the extra complexity will eventually show 
up. I don't think that's the right place to invest the technical talent.

Cheers, Andrew

 



On Monday, 13 March 2017 01:01:50 UTC+11, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
> *Here is a discussion I and Jeremy Ruston started, privately, on Twitter. 
> We realised that it could just as well be public in case anyone else wants 
> to read / comment ... *
>
> *Josiah, 1... *
> Are we all doomed to have to give up on simple download file-saving? 
>
> Do you know if the excellent TiddlyFox 2 will still work after the ominous 
> Firefox 57? 
>
> WHY do Mozilla take so LONG approving add-ons? 
>
> WHY do you keep TiddlyFox on Mozilla add-ons marked as "Experimental"? 
>
> Best wishes 
> Josiah
>
>
> *Jeremy, 1...*
> By “simple download file saving” do you mean the default fall back HTML 5 
> saver? I’ve no idea about Firefox 57. I’ve no idea why Mozilla do what they 
> do. I mark it experimental to save it going through Mozilla’s more rigorous 
> full review. 
>
>
> *Josiah, 2...*
> Ciao Jeremy. I guess where I am coming from is as a "naive" user (well, 
> I'm pretending to be one & try stay in that skin a bit). 
>
> I'm trying to get my head round the stumbling blocks to better uptake of 
> TW. 
>
> No. On "saving" I mean what TiddlyFox does brilliantly, simply. Overwrite. 
> The fallback behaviour of save(1) save(2) is not viable, IMO, for most 
> folk. 
>
> On Mozilla ... on everything I read they are internally confident in what 
> they are doing ... just about everything else is like witnessing shooting 
> into the foot. It all gets too convoluted. 
>
> I now understand why you keep it "experimental". From a naive user point 
> of view its a slight put-off. I'm not sure but does the latest v1 still 
> work in FF 52. 57 is when they say they will go wholly WebExtensions: Firefox 
> 57 - Compatability Milestone 
> 
>
> *Jeremy, 2...*
> Here’s the thing: all the difficulties in getting started with TiddlyWiki 
> stem from the single file architecture. It’s fiddly and unfamiliar to most 
> people. The simple fix is to move it to an online service, when all those 
> problems melt away. Simple. If on the other hand, anyone wants the 
> considerable advantages of working offline without a server, well, then 
> TiddlyWiki is the only thing on the planet that can help them, and it comes 
> with a learning curve. That’s life.
>
> *Jeremy, 3...*
> My sense is that you are pushing to find a way for the standalone HTML 
> file experience to match the ease of use of an online service. I don’t 
> think that’s possible.
>

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Re: [tw] TW5 - Another RSOD suggestion

[tejjyid]

"We are sorry!" is better than "This is embarrassing", although I would 
omit both myself. I guess that depends on how often the RSOD is seen as a 
result of user activity, vs system bug appearance. Obviously in the latter 
case, if feels right to apologise. I prefer "To protect your data you need 
to restart TiddlyWiki". If we stick with "highly recommend", I prefer 
"restarting", but that may be Australian dialect.

AW

On Saturday, 11 March 2017 20:23:53 UTC+11, PMario wrote:
>
> On Saturday, March 11, 2017 at 9:05:14 AM UTC+1, Jeremy Ruston wrote:
>>
>> As i've noted elsewhere "This is embarrassing" is not useful. You have no 
>> need to be embarrassed on my behalf - or indeed, your own, in the rare 
>> event that the error originates in TW core.
>>
>> I think I used that phrasing as a nod to a meme carried by Firefox and 
>> others (see below). I’d be happy to ditch it; it is a bit folksy for my 
>> tastes.
>>
>
> I can change the wording in PR #2799 
> , if you want. .. but 
> we have to be sure about the exact phrase, since it also affects all 
> translations. 
>
> I'd like to change the order of the arguments. eg: "We are sorry! To 
> protect your data we highly recommend to restart TiddlyWiki."
>
> -mario
>

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[tw] Re: Voicing Futures ...

[tejjyid]

Nothing I enjoy more than being patronised. Thanks for letting me know my 
inconveniences are minor.

Cheers

On Monday, 13 March 2017 01:01:50 UTC+11, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
> *Here is a discussion I and Jeremy Ruston started, privately, on Twitter. 
> We realised that it could just as well be public in case anyone else wants 
> to read / comment ... *
>
> *Josiah, 1... *
> Are we all doomed to have to give up on simple download file-saving? 
>
> Do you know if the excellent TiddlyFox 2 will still work after the ominous 
> Firefox 57? 
>
> WHY do Mozilla take so LONG approving add-ons? 
>
> WHY do you keep TiddlyFox on Mozilla add-ons marked as "Experimental"? 
>
> Best wishes 
> Josiah
>
>
> *Jeremy, 1...*
> By “simple download file saving” do you mean the default fall back HTML 5 
> saver? I’ve no idea about Firefox 57. I’ve no idea why Mozilla do what they 
> do. I mark it experimental to save it going through Mozilla’s more rigorous 
> full review. 
>
>
> *Josiah, 2...*
> Ciao Jeremy. I guess where I am coming from is as a "naive" user (well, 
> I'm pretending to be one & try stay in that skin a bit). 
>
> I'm trying to get my head round the stumbling blocks to better uptake of 
> TW. 
>
> No. On "saving" I mean what TiddlyFox does brilliantly, simply. Overwrite. 
> The fallback behaviour of save(1) save(2) is not viable, IMO, for most 
> folk. 
>
> On Mozilla ... on everything I read they are internally confident in what 
> they are doing ... just about everything else is like witnessing shooting 
> into the foot. It all gets too convoluted. 
>
> I now understand why you keep it "experimental". From a naive user point 
> of view its a slight put-off. I'm not sure but does the latest v1 still 
> work in FF 52. 57 is when they say they will go wholly WebExtensions: Firefox 
> 57 - Compatability Milestone 
> 
>
> *Jeremy, 2...*
> Here’s the thing: all the difficulties in getting started with TiddlyWiki 
> stem from the single file architecture. It’s fiddly and unfamiliar to most 
> people. The simple fix is to move it to an online service, when all those 
> problems melt away. Simple. If on the other hand, anyone wants the 
> considerable advantages of working offline without a server, well, then 
> TiddlyWiki is the only thing on the planet that can help them, and it comes 
> with a learning curve. That’s life.
>
> *Jeremy, 3...*
> My sense is that you are pushing to find a way for the standalone HTML 
> file experience to match the ease of use of an online service. I don’t 
> think that’s possible.
>

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[tw] Re: TW5 JS macros

[tejjyid]

I think I should listen to the guy here who always tells me "post code"!

1st, thanks for the new information. I hadn't previously seen the mechanism 
for adding default values through params; that's neat. 

The specific scenario I was envisaging looks a bit like this:

exports.name = "demo";
exports.params = [
{"name":"p1"},
{"name":"p2"}
];
exports.run = function(p1, p2) {
console.log(typeof p2);
console.log(p2);
};

Then a tiddler containing:

<>

results in a console log of String and nothing else. 

According to my reading on JS, what I should see is undefined undefined. 

If I understand you correctly, what you are saying is that TW overrides JS 
default behaviour in case someone tries to 

return p2;

incorrectly?


On Monday, 13 March 2017 20:33:38 UTC+11, PMario wrote:
>
> On Monday, March 13, 2017 at 10:15:52 AM UTC+1, tejjyid wrote:
>>
>> OK, but I can accidentally return an undefined paramenter any time, 
>> surely? 
>>
>
> If you define your params like this. eg:
>
> exports.params = [
> {"name":"tag", "default":""},
> {"name":"label", "default":"<$view field='title' format='text' />"},
> {"name":"tooltip", "default":""},
> {"name":"debug"}
> ];
>
> Since params has to exist, there shouldn't be an accidents. 
>  
>
>> This slightly unexpected behaviour only protects against variables named 
>> in the function definition? 
>>
>
> kind of. There is no mechanism in js, that tells you about returning 
> undefined variables. The developer has to take care for this. 
>  
>
>> Also, I notice Jeremy says "undefined".
>>
>
> IMO it should show, that undefined is a string. In js undefined is the 
> default state, if you define are variable, without initialisation. 
>
> undefined is not equal to the string "undefined"
>
> -m
>

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[tw] Re: Voicing Futures ...

[tejjyid]

I develop my TW code inline; currently from a file, as there's a lot to do 
handling the upgrade to TW5, but hopefully, in the future, from the browser 
again. I would routinely save & reload a TW tens, and possibly hundreds of 
times in a coding session. This is going to be an much more unpleasant 
experience if I have to go back to the filesystem to open a new file after 
every save, as well as delete the large number of old and dysfunctional 
copies of the file which might be dangerous to leave around.

My yimao.

Andrew.

On Monday, 13 March 2017 01:01:50 UTC+11, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
> *Here is a discussion I and Jeremy Ruston started, privately, on Twitter. 
> We realised that it could just as well be public in case anyone else wants 
> to read / comment ... *
>
> *Josiah, 1... *
> Are we all doomed to have to give up on simple download file-saving? 
>
> Do you know if the excellent TiddlyFox 2 will still work after the ominous 
> Firefox 57? 
>
> WHY do Mozilla take so LONG approving add-ons? 
>
> WHY do you keep TiddlyFox on Mozilla add-ons marked as "Experimental"? 
>
> Best wishes 
> Josiah
>
>
> *Jeremy, 1...*
> By “simple download file saving” do you mean the default fall back HTML 5 
> saver? I’ve no idea about Firefox 57. I’ve no idea why Mozilla do what they 
> do. I mark it experimental to save it going through Mozilla’s more rigorous 
> full review. 
>
>
> *Josiah, 2...*
> Ciao Jeremy. I guess where I am coming from is as a "naive" user (well, 
> I'm pretending to be one & try stay in that skin a bit). 
>
> I'm trying to get my head round the stumbling blocks to better uptake of 
> TW. 
>
> No. On "saving" I mean what TiddlyFox does brilliantly, simply. Overwrite. 
> The fallback behaviour of save(1) save(2) is not viable, IMO, for most 
> folk. 
>
> On Mozilla ... on everything I read they are internally confident in what 
> they are doing ... just about everything else is like witnessing shooting 
> into the foot. It all gets too convoluted. 
>
> I now understand why you keep it "experimental". From a naive user point 
> of view its a slight put-off. I'm not sure but does the latest v1 still 
> work in FF 52. 57 is when they say they will go wholly WebExtensions: Firefox 
> 57 - Compatability Milestone 
> 
>
> *Jeremy, 2...*
> Here’s the thing: all the difficulties in getting started with TiddlyWiki 
> stem from the single file architecture. It’s fiddly and unfamiliar to most 
> people. The simple fix is to move it to an online service, when all those 
> problems melt away. Simple. If on the other hand, anyone wants the 
> considerable advantages of working offline without a server, well, then 
> TiddlyWiki is the only thing on the planet that can help them, and it comes 
> with a learning curve. That’s life.
>
> *Jeremy, 3...*
> My sense is that you are pushing to find a way for the standalone HTML 
> file experience to match the ease of use of an online service. I don’t 
> think that’s possible.
>

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[tw] Re: TW5 JS macros

[tejjyid]

OK, but I can accidentally return an undefined paramenter any time, surely? 
This slightly unexpected behaviour only protects against variables named in 
the function definition? Also, I notice Jeremy says "undefined".

Thanks

On Saturday, 11 March 2017 20:33:58 UTC+11, PMario wrote:
>
> On Saturday, March 11, 2017 at 6:50:06 AM UTC+1, tejjyid wrote:
>>
>> It seems that when I execute a JS macro with an unsupplied parameter, 
>> it's set to "" rather than undefined. Is that always the case?
>>
>
> Yes. 
>
> Macros return text and we need to be 100% compatible with wikitext macros 
> <http://tiddlywiki.com/#Macro%20Definitions%20in%20WikiText>. They work 
> that way. 
>
> -m
>
>

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[tw] TW5 JS macros

[tejjyid]

It seems that when I execute a JS macro with an unsupplied parameter, it's 
set to "" rather than undefined. Is that always the case?

Thanks

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Re: [tw] TW5 - Another RSOD suggestion

[tejjyid]

Thanks Jeremy. It's a good idea to expain *reason* in messages. "As a 
result of an error, you need to restart Tiddlywiki to protect your data" 
would be more communicatively effective. Or if you feel "need to" is too 
coercive "should" conveys the notion of recommendation nicely. If you are 
uncomfortable addressing the user directly, then "Tiddlywiki should be 
restarted to protect its/your data" may suit. I prefer the more direct 
approach.

As i've noted elsewhere "This is embarrassing" is not useful. You have no 
need to be embarrassed on my behalf - or indeed, your own, in the rare 
event that the error originates in TW core.

The problem with being half clever (me) is that you make a lot of bad 
guesses. Sorry you have to suffer for them. The information "Node was not 
found" is really not useful to the casual user, so there's no value in 
presenting it. The user who can make use of it will easily find it in the 
console. (I would probably have been asking about it anyway, despite that)

Cheers.

On Thursday, 9 March 2017 22:14:58 UTC+11, Jeremy Ruston wrote:
>
> Hi Andrew
>
> The “red screen of death” is triggered by untrapped JavaScript errors. In 
> general, there are no guarantees as to the internal state of the system 
> after an error because it will have been left in an intermediate state. 
> That’s why the only good general advice is to restart TiddlyWiki. In 
> practice, some errors are more recoverable than others, but continuing 
> after an RSOD is inherently risky.
>
> Roughly half the time when I get the RSOD, when I click on the offending 
> tiddler to amend it, I get another RSOD telling me Node is not defined. I 
> know that; I don't use it. I do my development in the browser. Why do I 
> need to see this message, and more particularly, why is not having Node - I 
> thought it was optional - so serious as to cause an RSOD?
>
>
> The error message here is referring to a variable called “Node”, which is 
> part of the standard DOM specification, and nothing to do with Node.js.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Jeremy.
>
>
> Thanks, Andrew
>
> -- 
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> 
> .
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>
>
>

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[tw] TW5 - Another RSOD suggestion

[tejjyid]

Roughly half the time when I get the RSOD, when I click on the offending 
tiddler to amend it, I get another RSOD telling me Node is not defined. I 
know that; I don't use it. I do my development in the browser. Why do I 
need to see this message, and more particularly, why is not having Node - I 
thought it was optional - so serious as to cause an RSOD?

Thanks, Andrew

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[tw] Re: Simple Javascript insertion in tiddlers (text/vnd.tiddlywiki)

[tejjyid]

On Monday, 6 March 2017 22:23:58 UTC+11, PMario wrote:
>
> On Monday, March 6, 2017 at 11:20:58 AM UTC+1, tejjyid wrote:
>>
>> Edge cases
>>
>
> There are 11 js macros in the core and 860 macro \define statements in the 
> UI and templates. ~200 of them are duplicated in the language editions. So 
> macros are all over in the core, and we only had 11 exceptions, that where 
> done in js. The rest it pure wikitext. ... IMO that's impressive. 
>
Well, I agree. That IS impressive. 

>  
>
>> I can see that you might be able to do a lot with the wiki-text macros, 
>> but ... for anything complex they get pretty *unreadable pretty quickly!
>>
>
> Readability is a problem, since whitespace matters.  But many of the 
> core macros could have better readability, without side-effects in the DOM. 
>  
>
>> And it's not like they use a language you might use somewhere else.
>>
>
> They use wikitext. ??
>
Maybe we are slightly at cross purposes on what wkitext is; but $cmd; !!, 
{{{, [[[ (for example) constitute a syntax never used outside TW. I taught 
meyself JS to use TWc & since then I've written an Android app in it, 
amongst other things. That made the pain of the learning curve good value. 

>  
>
>> IMO, more, not less, use should be made of JS macros.
>>
>
> js macros can't be modified by most users. Standard macros can be modified 
> by every user. That's a huge difference.
>

There's possibly a difference here between system macros & user macros. The 
TW pros write a kind of expert JS that is hard to decode without 
experience, that's true. But simple procedural type JS is easy. It takes as 
much effort to learn how to use widgets as it does to learn the fragments 
of JS that are required for most of my macros. In fact, it takes more, 
because the documentation of widgets is not supported by a community as 
large as the JS community. 

>
>  
>
>> I'm just about to rework the lexer/parser you helped me with a few years 
>> ago into TW5 - but it'll stay in JS. I hope you'll be on standby once again 
>> :-)
>>
>
> If you want to implement stuff like this, you clearly have to go with 
> javascript. ... 
>

I recognize that's not part of the argument :-) 

>
> There is a big difference between TWc macros and TW5 macros. They are 
> completely different things. 
>
> TW5 macros are simple text-substutions, with no built-in "refresh" 
> mechanism. TWc macros are more like TW5 widgets now. .. parsing and 
> rendering a domain specific language (DLC) is a complete different topic 
> again, but doable. We have such plugins already. 
>
> eg: 
> railroad-plugin, markdown-plugin, katex-plugin, .. which may give you 
> hints :)
>

I will look into them, for sure. 

>
> have fun!
> mario
>

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[tw] Re: TW5 Red Screen of Death suggestions

[tejjyid]

Will do.

On Wednesday, 8 March 2017 11:55:16 UTC+11, PMario wrote:
>
> PR: https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/pull/2799
> +1 vote for it, if you want to push it. 
>
> -m
>

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[tw] Re: TW5 Red Screen of Death suggestions

[tejjyid]

That was for Thomas, Mario. I know you know :-)

Thanks

On Wednesday, 8 March 2017 11:47:36 UTC+11, PMario wrote:
>
> On Tuesday, March 7, 2017 at 9:28:05 PM UTC+1, tejjyid wrote:
>>
>> You can move the button fairly easily, I found. In boot.js, find this 
>> line:
>>
>>
>> form = dm("form",{children: [heading,prompt,message,button], "class": 
>> "tc-error-form"});
>>
>>  document.body.insertBefore(form,document.body.firstChild); 
>>
>>
> I know.  
>  
>
>> If you want to play with the colours, then "tc-error-form" is the CSS 
>> motivator.
>>
>
> I did change the CSS a bit, so the error-message text gets scroll bars, if 
> needed and the whole box is max 80% high. So it will never be bigger than 
> the browser window. 
> We will see, if Jeremy merges it. 
>
> -m
>
>

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[tw] Re: TW5 Red Screen of Death suggestions

[tejjyid]

You can move the button fairly easily, I found. In boot.js, find this line:


form = dm("form",{children: [heading,prompt,message,button], "class": 
"tc-error-form"});

document.body.insertBefore(form,document.body.firstChild); 


  and move the button higher in the list.

If you want to play with the colours, then "tc-error-form" is the CSS 
motivator.

Cheers

On Tuesday, 7 March 2017 21:02:10 UTC+11, Thomas Elmiger wrote:
>
> Hi folks
>
> I would support what Andrew says. In my experience (I develop in a single 
> page wiki) it is often possible to click the RSOD away – especially when 
> the message is short – and go on working without reload. 
>
> So make it as scary as possible, but give us the possibility to easily get 
> rid of it (button at the top or scrollable hints) so that I don’ have to 
> use the browser zoom to find the button if the message is larger than my 
> screen.
>
> Just my 5 cents.
> Thomas
>

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[tw] Re: TW5 Red Screen of Death suggestions

[tejjyid]

Scary is a different question, Mario. Maybe it needs to be scary, maybe 
not. Personally I believe in trusting users to act well with good 
information. However:

"This is embarassing" is not scary. It's annoying. If the problem is as 
serious as you say, then the error message needs to warn people of the true 
problem. "You are standing on the edge of a cliff" might get people's 
attention. (I would still opt for information rather than emotion, though). 
And if the error only ever bubbled up from somewhere deep in TW, and was 
serious enough to threaten data loss, then the message should ask people to 
notify TW support and, presumably, provide the error message, which I guess 
constitutes some kind of trace. But the error message doesn't do that. It's 
not constructive. It's not useful. It's just red.

The purpose of the message and the message itself are not coherent, that's 
the problem.

Now, my issues may be idiosyncratic, I admit. I do my coding in the 
browser. I don't want to be forced into learning yet another tool, 
installing yet another piece of software on my PC, and once again being 
tied to my PC for software development. TW should support some sort of 
meaningful and practical coding experience in the browser. I think the 
product has become too driven by coders and not enough by users. I 
understand most of the issues (roughly) behind the re-architecting, which 
is why I'm putting myself through the pain of upgrading, but reducing the 
portability of the code by making it so unpleasant to develop in the 
browser is a mistake. I don't believe offhand that this is a question of 
architecture; I think this is a question of people who like Node forgetting 
that there are a lot of people who don't need it, know it, or want it. 

For me, I see the RSOD 100 times a day when I'm writing code; that's how 
bad a coder I am. I don't care how bad I am, because I'm good enough to get 
done what I want to do, mainly. The problems I have to post about 99% turn 
out to be TW issues, not JS issues. TW is such a useful tool, despite this 
pain, that I will keep on using it. I'm going to try to start working on 
documentation of it, as a payback. At the end of all that though, the RSOD 
is not well thought through. I take your point that there may be some sort 
of thinking behind it - but it's still not good quality thinking as it 
stands.

Now I have just finished editing bootstrap CSS & JS to alleviate my 
problems. I've changed the error message to something less idiotic, I've 
muted the colours, and I've put the button on top. Much to my surprise, 
that all worked OK, 1st time (taht's a real tribute to the designers, BTW). 
That will reduce my pain. It doesn't deal with the deeper issues, but I 
don't really expect to persuade anybody to do that.

I'm interested to keep discussing it, though, if people want to.

Thanks for your response.



On Tuesday, 7 March 2017 19:11:25 UTC+11, PMario wrote:
>
>
> Hi Andrew,
>
> In normal cases TW fails silently. So if there are wikitext problems, the 
> "offending" text is ignored, or if possible there is some info. eg: 
> messages about list filter problems.
>
> If RSOD pops up, there is a real js problem, which may cause data loss, if 
> you could cancel and go on. So the only way to get rid of that message is, 
> to refresh the browser window. 
>
> So imo if this message would be less scary, we would have much more 
> trouble with users loosing data, because they would click it away and go on 
> with a probably broken system. The next save may cause much bigger problems.
>
> How do you create your code?  Within TW or a node js dev setup?
>
> just some thoughts.
>
> mario
>

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[tw] TW5 Red Screen of Death suggestions

[tejjyid]

I feel I have particular expertise in the matter of the RSOD. I have some 
suggestions that would ease my pain, improve my productivity and I feel 
sure generalize to others:

1.) A cancel button on the top of the ?modal box? so that I can get rid of 
it without changing my screen size / scrolling
2.) Do we need the whole error message? All I personally need is the line 
number of my most recent JS f-up, and if the rest of this message (which 
seems also to be in the console log) is meant to be of use to anyone else, 
it's not clear to whom and in what context. If the message were shorter, 
than maybe the necessity for 1.) is reduced
3.) Change the wording - for years Firefox used to waste seconds of my life 
by crapping out on reloading my tabs at restart, and issuing this fake 
apology about which they did absolutely nothing. The words "This is 
embarrassing" were a feature. This annoyed me. If someone is embarrassed - 
do something about it, I say. Don't just keep uttering meaningless 
apologies.   

But I can't work out who @ TW is embarrassed about my mistakes? Don't be - 
it's my problem. The faster I can click Cancel/refresh/edit the better. Put 
that Cancel button where I can get to it quickly.

Maybe someone feels that this is the right way to handle an occasional TW 
core failure. But there's no contact procedure, no advice about what to 
usefully do to help resolve the "embarrassment" - so there's a kind of 
incoherence about the whole RSOD experience.

1.) would be a big, big winner. I doubt I would've noticed 2.0 and 3.) if I 
hadn't had to go looking for the "Close" button.

Cheers, Andrew

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[tw] Re: Simple Javascript insertion in tiddlers (text/vnd.tiddlywiki)

[tejjyid]

Edge cases I can see that you might be able to do a lot with the 
wiki-text macros, but ... for anything complex they get pretty *unreadable 
pretty quickly! And it's not like they use a language you might use 
somewhere else. IMO, more, not less, use should be made of JS macros.

I'm just about to rework the lexer/parser you helped me with a few years 
ago into TW5 - but it'll stay in JS. I hope you'll be on standby once again 
:-)

Cheers, Andrew

*I mean that in a nice way

On Monday, 6 March 2017 06:50:43 UTC+11, PMario wrote:
>
> On Sunday, March 5, 2017 at 1:55:08 AM UTC+1, Matt Groth wrote:
>
>> I regularly backup my wiki so I'd be interested to know if this is at all 
>> hackable.
>>
>
> TW sanitizes javascript within normal tiddlers, for security reasons. 
>  
>
>> I'm also somewhat confused about why we have javascript macros then, and 
>> what the difference is there.
>>
>
> Standard macros are defined with \define ... \end .. Those macros are 
> "text substitutions". Everything between the "define - end" is wikitext, 
> which is powerful but still limited, compared to javascript. 
>
> javascript macros can use all the possibilities of javascript, but are 
> still limited to return text. So they work exactly the same way as 
> wiki-text macros. ... macros are not able to "refresh" the rendered output, 
> like widgets. Therefore they are simpler to use and define but you still 
> have to use a developer setting. 
>  
>
>> Though at this point I should probably study the code a lot more so I 
>> know what I'm talking about. I'll be back!
>>
>
> The js-macros have been introduced, because we needed them for some edge 
> cases. But it turns out, that tw wikitext is very powerful, so they are 
> only used for some core stuff. 
>
> hope that helps
> mario
>

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Re: [tw] TW5 - replacing all my old inline JS

[tejjyid]

OK, I think I have it 90% sussed. I'll try writing it up when I've done 
some stuff with it. Thanks again.

On Wednesday, 1 March 2017 20:28:31 UTC+11, tejjyid wrote:
>
> Thanks Jeremy - I don't think the lack of refresh will be an issue (as I 
> understand the limitation), but I can  cross the bidge if I need to later. 
> I suspect you've given me enough to go on, and I think I can puzzle out the 
> "require" and "exports" mechanism, but I do have a couple of questions if 
> you have the time:
>
> My google-driven understanding of require/exports is that it's node, not 
> javascript. I know TW5 is built around node, but I'm not running it. So, is 
> the TW5 core emulating something in mode? Is there a good place to read up 
> on this? Also, I had a look at 
>
> var Widget = require("$:/core/modules/widgets/widget.js").widget;
> , which I assume is what you wanted me to look at.
>
> I'm sure a bunch of trial-and-error will get me home, but:
> 1.) I don't think I'll be putting my code into "$:/core/modules" anytime 
> soon. Or is that where they have to go for this to work?
> 2.) is that statement a specific instance of "var Anyname = 
> require("anywhere/anycode.anysuffix").anymethod? It's not clear to me which 
> of those elements are by documentary convenience & which are by necessity.
>
> I would love to find stuff to copy/modify, but it's easier said than done. 
> When I got into this originally, I couldn't find anyone else interested in 
> analysing/annotating text.  I had the time to look at a ton of TWC stuff 
> then; now, it's taken me a year to get around to getting out of Tiddlyspace 
> & upgrading to TW5.
>
> Anyway I very much appreciate your work & help. I actually submitted my MA 
> research paper as a TWC tiddlywiki a few years ago - my supervisor was so 
> impressed by the technology she forgot to check the content, which was fine 
> by me :-) The examiners likewise. (That had things in it that were more 
> "standard"; bibliography, for example, so copy/modify was easier) Probably 
> I should offer to share it with you.
>
> Cheers, Andrew
>
> On Tuesday, 28 February 2017 23:21:08 UTC+11, Jeremy Ruston wrote:
>>
>> Hi tejjyid
>>
>> I've managed to update many of my simpler macros, but now I'm moving on 
>> to the more complicated ones.
>>
>> There are two scenarios that I used to have:
>>
>> 1.) a list of words stored in one tiddler that I would highlight in a 
>> range of texts stored in other tiddlers. That list of words would be 
>> converted into a regex via some inline js, and I could then use that regex 
>> in other macros, because once created the regex variable was "visible" 
>> everywhere. Frbut I can crossom my point of view, this was an easy option 
>> because I could update the list of words to be annotated easily.
>>
>>
>> The simplest type of JavaScript module to write for TiddlyWiki5 is a JS 
>> macro. The semantics are extremely simple: the macro defines the names of 
>> its parameters, and exports a handler function that is called when the 
>> macro is invoked. Here’s a simple example from the core:
>>
>>
>> https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/blob/master/core/modules/macros/makedatauri.js
>>
>> There are quite a few restrictions and limitations with macros, though.
>>
>> Firstly, a macro is not supposed to have any side effects (it cannot 
>> create or modify tiddlers, for example), and is supposed to return the same 
>> result every time it is called with a given set of parameters.
>>
>> Secondly, they don’t participate in the refresh mechanism (which is one 
>> of the things that makes them simple to write). This means that you can’t 
>> easily arrange for them to automatically refresh if underlying data should 
>> change.
>>
>> Nonetheless, in many situations, writing a macro is adequate. There is 
>> some documentation here:
>>
>> http://tiddlywiki.com/dev/#JavaScript%20Macros
>>
>> In your case, you could write a macro <> that 
>> would retrieve the tiddlers matching a filter, and retrieve the highlights 
>> from inside them, and then return the resulting regexp.
>>
>> Then, you could use an action-setfield widget within a button to allow 
>> the user to manually trigger the assignment of the regular expression to a 
>> tiddler.
>>
>> 2.) I had a library of functions stored in one tiddler that I could use 
>> in varying combinations in different macros. 
>>
>> I can't work out to do either thing in the TW5 framework. I don't mind 
>> doing it a be

Re: [tw] Using TW as a professional webpage

[tejjyid]

I think all they mean by "static" is "not using Nodejs", in other words, 
what the most of us who came from TW classic would think of as bog-standard 
TW. But I could be wrong. What exercises me about TW a a website is, how do 
I turn off all the authoring functionality? Maybe that's what "static" 
means.

Cheers

On Thursday, 2 March 2017 04:28:55 UTC+11, Mat wrote:
>
> >...static
>
> Why do you guys emphasize "static" so much? Is default TW, with some 
> visual remodelling, not a good idea?
>
> <:-)
>

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[tw] Re: TW5 - replacing all my old inline JS

[tejjyid]

On Tuesday, 28 February 2017 22:04:57 UTC+11, tejjyid wrote:
>
> I've managed to update many of my simpler macros, but now I'm moving on to 
> the more complicated ones.
>
> There are two scenarios that I used to have:
>
> 1.) a list of words stored in one tiddler that I would highlight in a 
> range of texts stored in other tiddlers. That list of words would be 
> converted into a regex via some inline js, and I could then use that regex 
> in other macros, because once created the regex variable was "visible" 
> everywhere. From my point of view, this was an easy option because I could 
> update the list of words to be annotated easily.
>
> 2.) I had a library of functions stored in one tiddler that I could use in 
> varying combinations in different macros. 
>
> I can't work out to do either thing in the TW5 framework. I don't mind 
> doing it a better way, if the better way doesn't involve complex code. Or 
> alternatively, how do I make the same arrangement work?
>
> Something else - I used to be able to get tiddlers into my macros with 
> code like "store.getTiddlerText" - does that functionality still exist? Can 
> someone point me to where it's documented?
>
> If anyone feels they need to look at old code to answer the questions: the 
> attached has everything. But probably some ideas on how to do it & pointers 
> to useful documentation would be enough.
>
> Thanks 
>

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Re: [tw] TW5 - replacing all my old inline JS

[tejjyid]

Thanks Jeremy - I don't think the lack of refresh will be an issue (as I 
understand the limitation), but I can  cross the bidge if I need to later. 
I suspect you've given me enough to go on, and I think I can puzzle out the 
"require" and "exports" mechanism, but I do have a couple of questions if 
you have the time:

My google-driven understanding of require/exports is that it's node, not 
javascript. I know TW5 is built around node, but I'm not running it. So, is 
the TW5 core emulating something in mode? Is there a good place to read up 
on this? Also, I had a look at 

var Widget = require("$:/core/modules/widgets/widget.js").widget;
, which I assume is what you wanted me to look at.

I'm sure a bunch of trial-and-error will get me home, but:
1.) I don't think I'll be putting my code into "$:/core/modules" anytime 
soon. Or is that where they have to go for this to work?
2.) is that statement a specific instance of "var Anyname = 
require("anywhere/anycode.anysuffix").anymethod? It's not clear to me which 
of those elements are by documentary convenience & which are by necessity.

I would love to find stuff to copy/modify, but it's easier said than done. 
When I got into this originally, I couldn't find anyone else interested in 
analysing/annotating text.  I had the time to look at a ton of TWC stuff 
then; now, it's taken me a year to get around to getting out of Tiddlyspace 
& upgrading to TW5.

Anyway I very much appreciate your work & help. I actually submitted my MA 
research paper as a TWC tiddlywiki a few years ago - my supervisor was so 
impressed by the technology she forgot to check the content, which was fine 
by me :-) The examiners likewise. (That had things in it that were more 
"standard"; bibliography, for example, so copy/modify was easier) Probably 
I should offer to share it with you.

Cheers, Andrew

On Tuesday, 28 February 2017 23:21:08 UTC+11, Jeremy Ruston wrote:
>
> Hi tejjyid
>
> I've managed to update many of my simpler macros, but now I'm moving on to 
> the more complicated ones.
>
> There are two scenarios that I used to have:
>
> 1.) a list of words stored in one tiddler that I would highlight in a 
> range of texts stored in other tiddlers. That list of words would be 
> converted into a regex via some inline js, and I could then use that regex 
> in other macros, because once created the regex variable was "visible" 
> everywhere. Frbut I can crossom my point of view, this was an easy option 
> because I could update the list of words to be annotated easily.
>
>
> The simplest type of JavaScript module to write for TiddlyWiki5 is a JS 
> macro. The semantics are extremely simple: the macro defines the names of 
> its parameters, and exports a handler function that is called when the 
> macro is invoked. Here’s a simple example from the core:
>
>
> https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/blob/master/core/modules/macros/makedatauri.js
>
> There are quite a few restrictions and limitations with macros, though.
>
> Firstly, a macro is not supposed to have any side effects (it cannot 
> create or modify tiddlers, for example), and is supposed to return the same 
> result every time it is called with a given set of parameters.
>
> Secondly, they don’t participate in the refresh mechanism (which is one of 
> the things that makes them simple to write). This means that you can’t 
> easily arrange for them to automatically refresh if underlying data should 
> change.
>
> Nonetheless, in many situations, writing a macro is adequate. There is 
> some documentation here:
>
> http://tiddlywiki.com/dev/#JavaScript%20Macros
>
> In your case, you could write a macro <> that would 
> retrieve the tiddlers matching a filter, and retrieve the highlights from 
> inside them, and then return the resulting regexp.
>
> Then, you could use an action-setfield widget within a button to allow the 
> user to manually trigger the assignment of the regular expression to a 
> tiddler.
>
> 2.) I had a library of functions stored in one tiddler that I could use in 
> varying combinations in different macros. 
>
> I can't work out to do either thing in the TW5 framework. I don't mind 
> doing it a better way, if the better way doesn't involve complex code. Or 
> alternatively, how do I make the same arrangement work?
>
>
> TiddlyWiki 5 provides a Common/JS compatible module loader that makes it 
> easy to require() other modules and access their exports. Here’s an example 
> from one of the core plugins:
>
>
> https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/blob/master/core/modules/widgets/button.js#L15
>  
> <https://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2FJermolene%2FTiddlyWiki5%2Fblob%2Fmaster%2Fcore%2Fmodules%

[tw] Re: TW5 - replacing all my old inline JS

[tejjyid]

That is exceptionally generous of you! I think I can puzzle out a lot about 
the internals from your's and Jeremy's posts. Appeciate it.

It may be a bridge too far (and maybe I can work it out with what you've 
already given me), but if you could stand to look at POSTagger.js: mainly 
because it uses a very large variable LEXICON (which is in Lexicon.js_) and 
I'm wondering what the best way to handle that volume of data is. It used 
to break IE8, but it's slow-ish to load anywhere.

Thanks regardless; you've been very helpful. WHen I finish this lot I'll be 
free to start thinking about the content and not the machinery.

Andrew

On Wednesday, 1 March 2017 03:36:36 UTC+11, BJ wrote:
>
>
> I have had a quick hack to indicate what I think may be the best approach 
> - see attached,
>
> all the best
> BJ
>
>
> On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 12:04:57 PM UTC+1, tejjyid wrote:
>>
>> I've managed to update many of my simpler macros, but now I'm moving on 
>> to the more complicated ones.
>>
>> There are two scenarios that I used to have:
>>
>> 1.) a list of words stored in one tiddler that I would highlight in a 
>> range of texts stored in other tiddlers. That list of words would be 
>> converted into a regex via some inline js, and I could then use that regex 
>> in other macros, because once created the regex variable was "visible" 
>> everywhere. From my point of view, this was an easy option because I could 
>> update the list of words to be annotated easily.
>>
>> 2.) I had a library of functions stored in one tiddler that I could use 
>> in varying combinations in different macros. 
>>
>> I can't work out to do either thing in the TW5 framework. I don't mind 
>> doing it a better way, if the better way doesn't involve complex code. Or 
>> alternatively, how do I make the same arrangement work?
>>
>> Something else - I used to be able to get tiddlers into my macros with 
>> code like "store.getTiddlerText" - does that functionality still exist? Can 
>> someone point me to where it's documented?
>>
>> If anyone feels they need to look at old code to answer the questions: 
>> the attached has everything. But probably some ideas on how to do it & 
>> pointers to useful documentation would be enough.
>>
>> Thanks 
>>
>

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[tw] Re: The look of tables TW5

[tejjyid]

Thanks David, I've had a bit of luck playing around with the padding. I'll 
try these out as well.


On Friday, 24 February 2017 15:19:43 UTC+11, David Szego wrote:
>
> Try putting a non-breaking space between cards:
>
>  
>
> or setting CSS word-break and word-spacing properties:
>
> https://www.w3schools.com/cssref/css3_pr_word-break.asp
> https://www.w3schools.com/cssref/pr_text_word-spacing.asp
>
>

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[tw] Re: The look of tables TW5

[tejjyid]

Here's the string produced by my code in both TWC & TW5:
@@.bridgetable
||T|5|3|
|!|Q|J|8|
|!|A|J|T|7|
||Q|8|3|
||K|4NQ|J|7|6|5|3|
|!|A|T|3||W| | ||!|K|T|9|4|
|!|K|T|8|5|4 | |E||!|2|
||T|9|2|||SK|4|
||A|5|
|!|6|4|3|
|!|Q|8|4|
||A|J|5|3|2|
@@

The only difference is in TWC the ! is replaced by @@color:red@@.

The CSS in both cases is the same:

.bridgetable tr:first-child th {color:red;text-align:center;}
.bridgetable td {background-color:white;}
.bridgetable {border-color:green;border-width:10px;}
.bridgetable th {background-color:white;color:red;}
.bridgetable,
.bridgetable td, 
.bridgetable tr, 
.bridgetable th
{ border:0 !important; margin:0 !important; padding:0px !important; 
text-align:center; }


Presumably the reason they show up differently is that the wikifier in TWC & 
TW5 converts the string to different HTML.


On Friday, 24 February 2017 20:44:48 UTC+11, BJ wrote:
>
> Its difficult to say what the problem might be without see the code...
>
> all the best
> BJ
>
> On Friday, February 24, 2017 at 4:42:38 AM UTC+1, tejjyid wrote:
>>
>> I have a table produced by a macro that looks slightly wonky under TW5.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Xe6VYuCgMys/WK-ofMrIl5I/YzA/dp8igpx0l2sh5__W55HMXGfZiSnXTXBXwCLcB/s1600/TW5-format.jpg>
>>
>>
>> You can see the odd spacing in the North cards; most clearly perhaps in 
>> the contrast between the erratic spacing of N's diamonds and the tight, 
>> even spacing of East's clubs. This is actually an improved version thanks 
>> to "text-align:center". The TWC version - from a string which *should be in 
>> all material respects identical - looks much more even, withouth any CSS 
>> intervantion from me.
>>
>>
>> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-d2OSbPEOnCw/WK-p0rpJKeI/YzU/J7ZYOy_3E_Y5Db3_KXa0bbn1_I9A1UrRQCLcB/s1600/TWC-format.jpg>
>> * I know these words mean little; I had to change the string because TW5 
>> doesn't easily support cell-level CSS, but all that involved was removing 
>> some inline CSS wrapping from the red suit symbols and repacing it with an 
>> "!" so I could switch the colour via tableheader. There are *no* gratuitous 
>> spaces in the underlying string.
>>
>> ** I wouldn't necessarily believe me either, but I have checked.
>>
>> I can certainly live with the problem, but I'd like to eliminate it if 
>> possible.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>

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[tw] Re: red screen of death TW5

[tejjyid]

I had one at least that produced the RSOD during the initial load.

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[tw] The look of tables TW5

[tejjyid]

I have a table produced by a macro that looks slightly wonky under TW5.






You can see the odd spacing in the North cards; most clearly perhaps in the 
contrast between the erratic spacing of N's diamonds and the tight, even 
spacing of East's clubs. This is actually an improved version thanks to 
"text-align:center". The TWC version - from a string which *should be in 
all material respects identical - looks much more even, withouth any CSS 
intervantion from me.


* I know these words mean little; I had to change the string because TW5 
doesn't easily support cell-level CSS, but all that involved was removing 
some inline CSS wrapping from the red suit symbols and repacing it with an 
"!" so I could switch the colour via tableheader. There are *no* gratuitous 
spaces in the underlying string.

** I wouldn't necessarily believe me either, but I have checked.

I can certainly live with the problem, but I'd like to eliminate it if 
possible.

Cheers

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[tw] red screen of death TW5

[tejjyid]

I'm working on the conversion of my TW's from TWC -> TW5.

I was fiddling with one of my new macros (converted & functional, but 
improveable) and I introduced a syntax error. Bingo, RSOD and I can no 
longer access the tiddler to repair the damage. In fact, I can't access the 
wiki. Fortunately it was small enough to fix by editing the html file with 
a text editor, but I'm pretty sure that's not recommended procedure.

I searched on this in the group and found a discussion suggesting that the 
RSOD won't happen if developer tools are switched on. Not so - developer 
tools were switched on at the time of this RSOD. I also found a suggestion 
that there is an option in the developer tools that needs to be on for this 
to be true, but that appeared to be for Chrome. I'm using, and plan to 
continue using, Firefox. 

Can anybody assist?  

Thanks in anticipation

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[tw] Re: javascript macros in TW5

[tejjyid]

Thanks BJ, that in fact works. I also found the error & the macro outputs 
the same stuff it used to. Mind you, it used to come out as a table, and 
now it comes out as a bunch of vertical lines, so something's a little odd, 
but I guess that's a different question.


On Monday, 20 February 2017 19:05:11 UTC+11, BJ wrote:
>
>
> that should be module-type
>
> On Monday, February 20, 2017 at 2:07:40 AM UTC+1, tejjyid wrote:
>>
>> Thanks very much.
>>
>> Can I update the online documentation of Javascript macros? Because I 
>> think it can be made more clear for the inexperienced. 
>>
>> On Sunday, 19 February 2017 21:12:00 UTC+11, BJ wrote:
>>>
>>> if you remove the "using strict" from you macro, and add the field 
>>> "modules-type" with value "macro", save and reload, then your macro works.
>>>
>>> BJ
>>>
>>> On Sunday, February 19, 2017 at 10:21:10 AM UTC+1, tejjyid wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Ahh... OK, this should be better.
>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/fk28f37vlj5gqjp/bridgethunk5.html?dl=0
>>>>
>>>> Appreciate it.
>>>>
>>>> On Sunday, 19 February 2017 07:19:20 UTC+11, BJ wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> bridgeHand.test - I dont see this - only your twc tiddlywiki
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Saturday, February 18, 2017 at 9:03:41 PM UTC+1, tejjyid wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I see. How can i identify that necessity in a given TWC macro?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> macros should not modifly tiddlers or the dom, only return wikitext 
>>>>>
>>>>

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[tw] Re: javascript macros in TW5

[tejjyid]

In fact, by making the browser full-screen in Firefox, I was able to get to 
the close button.

On Monday, 20 February 2017 18:09:33 UTC+11, tejjyid wrote:
>
> Scrub that - if you find a really BIG screen (although not in Firefox) 
> there's a close button.
>
> On Monday, 20 February 2017 18:06:10 UTC+11, tejjyid wrote:
>>
>> But before I do...
>>
>> I made the suggested changes (did you mean "modules-type" or 
>> "module-type", BTW)? Now I have a large red window in the middle of my 
>> screen suggesting there is a javascript error in my module. Well, no real 
>> surprises there, BUT the big red window won't go away, which makes editing 
>> the tiddler with the code in it impossible.
>>
>> What next?
>>
>> On Monday, 20 February 2017 12:07:40 UTC+11, tejjyid wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks very much.
>>>
>>> Can I update the online documentation of Javascript macros? Because I 
>>> think it can be made more clear for the inexperienced. 
>>>
>>> On Sunday, 19 February 2017 21:12:00 UTC+11, BJ wrote:
>>>>
>>>> if you remove the "using strict" from you macro, and add the field 
>>>> "modules-type" with value "macro", save and reload, then your macro works.
>>>>
>>>> BJ
>>>>
>>>> On Sunday, February 19, 2017 at 10:21:10 AM UTC+1, tejjyid wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Ahh... OK, this should be better.
>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/fk28f37vlj5gqjp/bridgethunk5.html?dl=0
>>>>>
>>>>> Appreciate it.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sunday, 19 February 2017 07:19:20 UTC+11, BJ wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> bridgeHand.test - I dont see this - only your twc tiddlywiki
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Saturday, February 18, 2017 at 9:03:41 PM UTC+1, tejjyid wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I see. How can i identify that necessity in a given TWC macro?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> macros should not modifly tiddlers or the dom, only return wikitext 
>>>>>>
>>>>>

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[tw] Re: javascript macros in TW5

[tejjyid]

Scrub that - if you find a really BIG screen (although not in Firefox) 
there's a close button.

On Monday, 20 February 2017 18:06:10 UTC+11, tejjyid wrote:
>
> But before I do...
>
> I made the suggested changes (did you mean "modules-type" or 
> "module-type", BTW)? Now I have a large red window in the middle of my 
> screen suggesting there is a javascript error in my module. Well, no real 
> surprises there, BUT the big red window won't go away, which makes editing 
> the tiddler with the code in it impossible.
>
> What next?
>
> On Monday, 20 February 2017 12:07:40 UTC+11, tejjyid wrote:
>>
>> Thanks very much.
>>
>> Can I update the online documentation of Javascript macros? Because I 
>> think it can be made more clear for the inexperienced. 
>>
>> On Sunday, 19 February 2017 21:12:00 UTC+11, BJ wrote:
>>>
>>> if you remove the "using strict" from you macro, and add the field 
>>> "modules-type" with value "macro", save and reload, then your macro works.
>>>
>>> BJ
>>>
>>> On Sunday, February 19, 2017 at 10:21:10 AM UTC+1, tejjyid wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Ahh... OK, this should be better.
>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/fk28f37vlj5gqjp/bridgethunk5.html?dl=0
>>>>
>>>> Appreciate it.
>>>>
>>>> On Sunday, 19 February 2017 07:19:20 UTC+11, BJ wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> bridgeHand.test - I dont see this - only your twc tiddlywiki
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Saturday, February 18, 2017 at 9:03:41 PM UTC+1, tejjyid wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I see. How can i identify that necessity in a given TWC macro?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> macros should not modifly tiddlers or the dom, only return wikitext 
>>>>>
>>>>

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[tw] Re: javascript macros in TW5

[tejjyid]

But before I do...

I made the suggested changes (did you mean "modules-type" or "module-type", 
BTW)? Now I have a large red window in the middle of my screen suggesting 
there is a javascript error in my module. Well, no real surprises there, 
BUT the big red window won't go away, which makes editing the tiddler with 
the code in it impossible.

What next?

On Monday, 20 February 2017 12:07:40 UTC+11, tejjyid wrote:
>
> Thanks very much.
>
> Can I update the online documentation of Javascript macros? Because I 
> think it can be made more clear for the inexperienced. 
>
> On Sunday, 19 February 2017 21:12:00 UTC+11, BJ wrote:
>>
>> if you remove the "using strict" from you macro, and add the field 
>> "modules-type" with value "macro", save and reload, then your macro works.
>>
>> BJ
>>
>> On Sunday, February 19, 2017 at 10:21:10 AM UTC+1, tejjyid wrote:
>>>
>>> Ahh... OK, this should be better.
>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/fk28f37vlj5gqjp/bridgethunk5.html?dl=0
>>>
>>> Appreciate it.
>>>
>>> On Sunday, 19 February 2017 07:19:20 UTC+11, BJ wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> bridgeHand.test - I dont see this - only your twc tiddlywiki
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Saturday, February 18, 2017 at 9:03:41 PM UTC+1, tejjyid wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I see. How can i identify that necessity in a given TWC macro?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> macros should not modifly tiddlers or the dom, only return wikitext 
>>>>
>>>

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[tw] Re: javascript macros in TW5

[tejjyid]

Thanks very much.

Can I update the online documentation of Javascript macros? Because I think 
it can be made more clear for the inexperienced. 

On Sunday, 19 February 2017 21:12:00 UTC+11, BJ wrote:
>
> if you remove the "using strict" from you macro, and add the field 
> "modules-type" with value "macro", save and reload, then your macro works.
>
> BJ
>
> On Sunday, February 19, 2017 at 10:21:10 AM UTC+1, tejjyid wrote:
>>
>> Ahh... OK, this should be better.
>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/fk28f37vlj5gqjp/bridgethunk5.html?dl=0
>>
>> Appreciate it.
>>
>> On Sunday, 19 February 2017 07:19:20 UTC+11, BJ wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> bridgeHand.test - I dont see this - only your twc tiddlywiki
>>>
>>>
>>> On Saturday, February 18, 2017 at 9:03:41 PM UTC+1, tejjyid wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I see. How can i identify that necessity in a given TWC macro?
>>>
>>>
>>> macros should not modifly tiddlers or the dom, only return wikitext 
>>>
>>

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[tw] Re: javascript macros in TW5

[tejjyid]

Ahh... OK, this should be better.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/fk28f37vlj5gqjp/bridgethunk5.html?dl=0

Appreciate it.

On Sunday, 19 February 2017 07:19:20 UTC+11, BJ wrote:
>
>
> bridgeHand.test - I dont see this - only your twc tiddlywiki
>
>
> On Saturday, February 18, 2017 at 9:03:41 PM UTC+1, tejjyid wrote:
>>
>> I see. How can i identify that necessity in a given TWC macro?
>
>
> macros should not modifly tiddlers or the dom, only return wikitext 
>

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[tw] Re: javascript macros in TW5

[tejjyid]

Excellent, thanks for that. 
The TW5 macros will need some thinking about.

On Sunday, 19 February 2017 07:19:20 UTC+11, BJ wrote:
>
>
> bridgeHand.test - I dont see this - only your twc tiddlywiki
>
>
> On Saturday, February 18, 2017 at 9:03:41 PM UTC+1, tejjyid wrote:
>>
>> I see. How can i identify that necessity in a given TWC macro?
>
>
> macros should not modifly tiddlers or the dom, only return wikitext 
>

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[tw] Re: javascript macros in TW5

[tejjyid]

I see. How can i identify that necessity in a given TWC macro?

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[tw] Re: javascript macros in TW5

[tejjyid]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/luya0x3dl0q57l8/bridgethunk.html?dl=0

bridgeHand.test contains the attempt at a new TW5 version of the TWC version in 
bridgeHand.old.

Winnipeg is one of tiddlers trying to use it.

Thanks

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[tw] javascript macros in TW5

[tejjyid]

I finally decided I had to bite the bullet and deal with converting all my 
old JS macros to TW5 so that I can move forward on what will hopefully 
prove to be a more stable platform.

I can't find a document describing how to convert TWC JS macros, but 
looking at the sketchy documentation & a couple of examples, it doesn't 
look too hard. Maybe.

I've tried one - naturally it doesn't work, but the real problem is how am 
I to debug it? I can't see any error messages. TWC used to tell me I had a 
syntax error - I reckon the chance that I've managed to code something 
without one is approaching 0, but there is no error message. I can't see 
anything in the console either, except "saver-handler: Saving wiki with 
method autosave through saver tiddlyfox". That in itself is puzzling, since 
I'm trying to display a tiddler, not save anything.

Can somebody assist please? 

While I'm here, there's a mass of stuff between /*\ and \*/ at the top of 
the sample macros I looked at. Is that functional (I copied it in case it 
was) or documentation?

Cheers (and I hope this is worth it)

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Re: [tw] Re: TiddlySpace First Time User Experience

[tejjyid]

Thanks Chris - see below. I wouldn't want to say I've had an epiphany, but 
I think I've started to crystallise some ideas.

On Sunday, July 22, 2012 7:37:45 PM UTC+10, Chris Dent wrote:


 First off, I realize based on your comments at the end of your 
 response that I missed the main thrust of your inquiry which was about 
 collaboration, I can try to address that in this thread as well, but 
 keep in mind that I'm just having a conversation here so may not 
 always see the details you want me to see unless you ask your 
 questions explicitly. 

 That out of the way on into some of your comments: 

 On Sat, 21 Jul 2012, tejjyid wrote: 

  TiddlyWiki specific; that is, there are a number of plugins that work in 
  the TiddlyWiki file format that don't work in Tiddlyspace. 

 True. But there are plenty of TiddlyWiki plugins that don't work in 
 TiddlyWiki when other plugins are in that TiddlyWiki too. The 
 incompatibility between plugins is a function of the plugins, usually 
 not TiddlyWiki (that is, the file empty.html that you get from 
 tiddlywiki.com) nor TiddlySpace. 


Yes. I think I need to re-think my conception of TW *back* to the idea of 
the empty.html file. I can see that will be more productive. The 
compatibility/interoperability of plugins is more usefully a separate 
discussion.  


 There _is_ a subset of TiddlyWiki plugins that create and automatically 
 save tiddlers, that because of a bug in the core of TiddlyWiki, do not 
 quite work on TidldyWikis hosted on TiddlySpace: the tiddlers get 
 created but not saved. A fix for this has been made in the TiddlyWiki 
 core, but not yet released into the wild, and thus not into the 
 TiddlySpace ecosystem. There's activite discussion in the 
 [tiddlywikidev] group about the state of releases. 

 So what I'm trying to say is: using plugins in TiddlyWiki has always 
 been a bit of crapshoot, long before TiddlySpace ever came along, and 
 it is often the case that some experimentation is required to get 
 things to work as desired. 

 One of the early goals of TiddlySpace was to make it easy for people 
 to establish known-good collections of plugins that other people could 
 then include in their spaces using the inclusion mechanism. When I say 
 people here, I mean members of the using public. 


I'm not sure how that's working, BTW, in terms of the known. No mind, 
I'll think about that as I get moving on documentation. I'm thinking of 
starting a thread here for discussions about documentation 
strategy/standards. 


  I understand that now, but I note that you introduced a new concept, 
  TiddlyWeb to explain it. 

 That's pretty common when explaining anything isn't it? 


Well, I hope not, but never mind.
 

 If you like we 
 can go back to first principles, but in the name of expediency and 
 efficiency I'd like to be able to assume that you have access to the 
 internet and are willing and able to learn? 


I'll let you off explaining the first principles, so long as they're 
written down somewhere and you keep telling me where that is. FWIW, I think 
you have supplied me with enough documentation for a little while. Thanks, 
I like to read. It might be my best thing.


 http://tiddlyweb.com/ 

 TiddlyWeb is the core web service that runs underneath TiddlyWeb. 

 If we are to go back to first principles then it is important that we 
 engage in a dialog rather than me guessing everything you might want 
 to know. I can't make that guess so my only option there would be to 
 write endlessly about things. If I did that there wouldn't be any 
 TiddlySpace. If I started doing that now, then when TiddlySpace broke 
 I would be too busy writing for you to fix it. 

 However, if we engage in dialog I can target my responses and we 
 _both_ become more aware of what matters, what is missing and we are 
 both empowered to share with other people. 


That's fair enough. I'll try to be more precise. 


  I know it's true that a space MAY be thought of as a tiddlywiki hosted 
 on 
  tiddlyweb, but it's clearly a bit misleading. 

 No, it's not clearly. I'm not yet fully understanding where you feel 
 you've been misled? 


I think there's quite a big difference between this description, and the 
idea that TW is an application running on a datastore called TiddlySpace 
(Which was my understanding of something you had said elsewhere). I still 
think it's a big difference (hence misleading) but I doubt now whether the 
difference will be that important in the overall scheme of things. For 
different users, there may well be different descriptions.


  I would never ask why bother; my questions would be much more along 
 the 
  lines of 
  a.) Why keep it secret? 
  b.) What are some ideas for how/when/why to think about when to use each 
  path? 

 a) There's no intention to keep it a secret. It is, pretty much, a 
 resource allocation problem. The information is out there, but it is 
 not discoverable and that is bad. There have been some

[tw] Re: TiddlySpace First Time User Experience

[tejjyid]

I created a tiddler called tsjuly as per some posting related to 
this...should I repost here?

I have never had a clear idea of how Tiddlyspace is supposed to work, nor 
its relation to Tiddlywiki. Pretty much every time I try to use some plugin 
- painfully tracked down - it turns out to be TW specific. The comment made 
further down here - that TW should be about TW and TS about tiddlers I find 
particularly bewildering: I thought TW was about tiddlers? And I thought TS 
was about collaboration?

And how does one use TW, if not through tiddlers? And what/where are the TS 
interfaces that expose tiddlers without exposing TW?

(And in fact, how does that gel with this, from the docs space?
A space may be thought of as a TiddlyWiki hosted on TiddlyWeb.)

Plus you say We haven't been very good about exposing functionality: 
Endorsed! 

I'm actually quite keen to get involved in documenting stuff - but I have 
no idea where or how to start.

Andrew

On Monday, 5 September 2011 23:11:54 UTC+10, Chris Dent wrote:


 The Osmosoft gang is going to be spending some time over the next
 couple of weeks attempting to improve the first time experience with
 TiddlySpace. Some of the goals of that have been captured in a few
 tiddlers[1] but in order for the work to be successful input is needed
 from a diverse audience.

 If you have recently tried TiddlySpace (at http://tiddlyspace.com/) (or
 have been interested in trying, please do) it would be great if you
 could report on your impressions here in this thread.

 * Where things were confusing.
 * The bumps in the road.
 * What was most or least interesting or useful.
 * Suggestions for making the system more approachable and informative.

 We are aware that the system doesn't yet sell itself well, but we
 aren't quite sure what approach to take to make it better.

 One major issue is that TiddlySpace is designed to be accessible to
 people who may not have seen TiddlyWiki before, and in some
 situations will never see the TiddlyWiki interface when using
 TiddlySpace (instead they will see and use tiddlers, in a variety of
 interfaces).

 Thanks very much for any input. We are only able to bring TiddlySpace
 to its full potential with input from all kinds of voices, including
 yours.

 P.S: In case you're concerned the issues with import and related
 problems in recent TiddlyWiki releases are actively being worked on,
 primarily by Martin, simultaneously with this other work.

 [1] http://tiddlyspace.com/search?q=title:TiddlySpaceGoals

 -- 
 Chris Dent   http://burningchrome.com/
  [...]



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Re: [tw] Re: TiddlySpace First Time User Experience

[tejjyid]

On Saturday, 21 July 2012 21:40:15 UTC+10, Chris Dent wrote:

 On Sat, 21 Jul 2012, tejjyid wrote: 

  I created a tiddler called tsjuly as per some posting related to 
  this...should I repost here? 

 The idea was to tag the tiddler tsjuly, so if you add that tag, it 
 will show up on the radar. 


If only I could read; OK, will do. 


  I have never had a clear idea of how Tiddlyspace is supposed to work, 
 nor 
  its relation to Tiddlywiki. Pretty much every time I try to use some 
 plugin 
  - painfully tracked down - it turns out to be TW specific. The comment 
 made 
  further down here - that TW should be about TW and TS about tiddlers I 
 find 
  particularly bewildering: I thought TW was about tiddlers? And I thought 
 TS 
  was about collaboration? 

 What do you mean by TW specific? 

TiddlyWiki specific; that is, there are a number of plugins that work in 
the TiddlyWiki file format that don't work in Tiddlyspace.


  And how does one use TW, if not through tiddlers? And what/where are the 
 TS 
  interfaces that expose tiddlers without exposing TW? 

 The idea there is that TiddlyWeb makes it possible to work with 
 tiddlers outside of tiddlywiki. For example your tsjuly tiddler 
 (assuming this is yours) can be reached on the web like this: 

 http://andrewsimon.tiddlyspace.com/tsjuly 

 From which I can make a bookmark, that quotes it: 

 http://cdent-bkm.tiddlyspace.com/tsjuly 

I understand that now, but I note that you introduced a new concept, 
TiddlyWeb to explain it. 


  (And in fact, how does that gel with this, from the docs space? 
  A space may be thought of as a TiddlyWiki hosted on TiddlyWeb.) 

 As you've noted the docs are a bit inconsistent, but it is true that a 
 space may be thought of as a tiddlywiki hosted on tiddlyweb. It may 
 also be thought of a collection of tiddlers that are present on the 
 web. My main space doesn't use tiddlywiki at all, it just operates as 
 a more standard wiki: 

 http://cdent.tiddlyspace.com/ 

I know it's true that a space MAY be thought of as a tiddlywiki hosted on 
tiddlyweb, but it's clearly a bit misleading. 


 You might ask, why bother? What do I gain from not using TiddlyWiki. 
 For me what I get is more direct access to the tiddlers without 
 TiddylyWiki being in the way. Each of those tiddlers can be access and 
 edited directly over the HTTP API that tiddlyweb present.

 
I would never ask why bother; my questions would be much more along the 
lines of 
a.) Why keep it secret?
b.) What are some ideas for how/when/why to think about when to use each 
path?


 The canonical URI of that HelloThere tiddlers is: 

 http://cdent.tiddlyspace.com/bags/cdent_public/tiddlers/HelloThere 

 it can be accessed in other representations. Here are some (but not 
 all): 

 http://cdent.tiddlyspace.com/bags/cdent_public/tiddlers/HelloThere.txt 
 
 http://cdent.tiddlyspace.com/bags/cdent_public/tiddlers/HelloThere.json 
 
 http://cdent.tiddlyspace.com/bags/cdent_public/tiddlers/HelloThere.atom 

 Using the web API it can be changed and manipulated by a large number 
 of tools, including, but not limited to TiddlyWiki. 

  Plus you say We haven't been very good about exposing functionality: 
  Endorsed! 

 You might wish to read this posting in the [tiddlyspace] group where I 
 explain some of the reasons for this: 

 https://groups.google.com/d/msg/tiddlyspace/g3SOnPGX8_U/_7KhIpyrv_QJ 

  I'm actually quite keen to get involved in documenting stuff - but I 
 have 
  no idea where or how to start. 

 I recommend you get in contact with pmario and mat mentioned in that 
 thread referenced just above. They appear to have some plans and hopes for 
 improving and consolidating the TiddlyWiki aspects of TiddlySpace. 


Well, I will - but I note that you haven't mentioned collaboration at all, 
and I don't quite understand where it fits in to what you have said.
Collaboration, as a use-purpose, and the primary reason I switced from 
Tiddlyspot to Tiddlyspace, wouldn't be expected to be specific to one of 
json/wikify/htm/txt/atom access methods, would it?. So is it built into 
TiddlyWeb? Or is it a red herring? Or something else?

It's not a given that I'm necessarily interested in the Tiddlywiki 
interface - it's just what I happen to know right now, and what I guess 
most people coming into Tiddlyspace know. What I'm interested in is 
functionality around collaborative work practices.


 -- 
 Chris Dent   http://burningchrome.com/ 
  [...] d4e3ynbt


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[tw] Re: ToggleFullScreen in Tiddlyspace

[tejjyid]

Another thing, and the reason I opened this thread originally, is that I think 
the ability to do presentations from //within// a space is very useful. I don't 
want to have to separate presentayion and knowledge.

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[tw] Re: INTRO: Part Of Speech tagger TiddlyWiki/TiddlySpace

[tejjyid]

BTW, the lexicon.js_ plugin won't load in IE8, I assume because of size? Is 
that a known feature of IE8? Can it be disabled?
 
Thanks

On Friday, 13 July 2012 16:08:08 UTC+10, tejjyid wrote:

 I'll check out the Natural node project, thanks...


 On Monday, 9 July 2012 03:23:15 UTC+10, PMario wrote: 

 On 8 Jul., 19:12, PMario pmari...@gmail.com wrote: 
  I'm sure, there are many possibilities. ... 
 To create the mouse over tooltips, I did use a legend.json [1
 tiddler. This tiddler is like a configuration file. It could be also 
 used to assign colors to the words. Some info if a tag should be 
 shown, or hidden. ... 

 @andrew Just an info 
 Do you know the NaturalNode project [2]. It can't do POST at the 
 moment but many other things that may be interesting in your context. 

 ==quote== 
 Natural is a general natural language facility for nodejs. 
 Tokenizing, stemming, classification, phonetics, tf-idf, WordNet, 
 string similarity, and some inflection are currently supported. 
  

 -m 

 [1] http://postagger.tiddlyspace.com/#legend.json 
 [2] https://github.com/NaturalNode/natural 



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[tw] Re: INTRO: Part Of Speech tagger TiddlyWiki/TiddlySpace

[tejjyid]

You can find my attempt at color coding in the demo* tiddlers.
Definitely the basic code is too dense for any typical presentation 
purpose; I think it's more intended to illustrate the POS tagger results 
(which are quite flawed in some ways).

Anyway, for teaching purposes I will pretty much always be contrasting 2 or 
3 features, because more is confusing for students. Also, I'll be talking 
to my classes about ways they think they can use the tool. But for 2 or 3 
features, I think color works fine. You can see this at 
andrewsimon.tiddlyspace.

The 2-line approach seems the best way for maximum detail/clarity. I might 
combine that with inline table editing as a way of manually fixing the 
errors, where 100% accuracy is important, but that has other implications 
(as in, a loss of dynamism). so might remins the operative word.

Andrew

On Monday, 9 July 2012 03:12:33 UTC+10, PMario wrote:

 On 7 Jul., 22:59, twgrp matiasg...@gmail.com wrote: 
  Disclaimer: I hardly understand what this is about at all. Some kind 
  of grammatical analysis tooI? 
 hihi, it's like me. 

  Anyway, here's a friendly suggestion: Instead of writing out each, hm, 
  thing, after every word like this: 
  Bonaparte/NNP has/VBZ been/VBN 
  I have to alternate suggestions. 
 This format seemed to be best practice. I did make it a different 
 color and smaller, to make the tags less aggressive. 

 Andrew did an other tagger, that just colored the words but I can't 
 find it anymore at his space [1] :( 

  1) If it is desired that the text is still readible, then I'd suggest 
  to (somehow) put each.. thing... on a separate row under the original 
  text, like this: 
  Bonaparte has been 
  NNP  VBZ VBN 

 I did a test page http://postagger.tiddlyspace.com/#TestSlices  which 
 shows an other possibility to get some tagging per sentence. I used TW 
 slices to reference the texts. IMO this would be intersting sice you 
 can use the results using eg: tiddler anyTiddler::o1 somewhere 
 else in any tiddler. 

  I had to put in the line to create a space. In TW you could put in eg 
  nbsp; or perhaps put it all in a table. 
  
  2) If it is not necessary to see the very.. things.. directly, then a 
  hover popup to show them would make for a more readible text, still 
  with the analysis readily available. 

 I'm sure, there are many possibilities. IMO @andrew needs to tell us, 
 what's needed :) He seems to be experimenting atm 

 have fun! 
 mario 

 [1] http://andrewsimon.tiddlyspace.com

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[tw] Re: INTRO: Part Of Speech tagger TiddlyWiki/TiddlySpace

[tejjyid]

I'll check out the Natural node project, thanks...


On Monday, 9 July 2012 03:23:15 UTC+10, PMario wrote:

 On 8 Jul., 19:12, PMario pmari...@gmail.com wrote: 
  I'm sure, there are many possibilities. ... 
 To create the mouse over tooltips, I did use a legend.json [1
 tiddler. This tiddler is like a configuration file. It could be also 
 used to assign colors to the words. Some info if a tag should be 
 shown, or hidden. ... 

 @andrew Just an info 
 Do you know the NaturalNode project [2]. It can't do POST at the 
 moment but many other things that may be interesting in your context. 

 ==quote== 
 Natural is a general natural language facility for nodejs. 
 Tokenizing, stemming, classification, phonetics, tf-idf, WordNet, 
 string similarity, and some inflection are currently supported. 
  

 -m 

 [1] http://postagger.tiddlyspace.com/#legend.json 
 [2] https://github.com/NaturalNode/natural 


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[tw] Re: ToggleFullScreen in Tiddlyspace

[tejjyid]

  What would be needed, in your opinion, to get it started? 

A good question. Let me think out loud...in practice I will get up at a 
professional development day, and say,
Right folks here's a new tool. You can:
a.) maintain a journal of your own knowledge and ideas
b.) share that with other people
c.) share other people's knowledge and ideas
d.) discuss things with colleagues
e.) access/link/store documents/images/pdfs
f.) build and run presentations
g.) adapt and configure

Everyone will be briefly excited, and then I'll try to set up a couple of 
specific projects to encourage people to use it.

So, OK, a.) I can do now  I've tested a couple of the WYSIWYG options to 
enhance the appearance of friendliness. Personally I prefer markup, but I 
grew up with IBM's SCRIPT/VS.

b.) c.) d.) I have only the barest glimmerings of how to do.
e.) is probably going to create problems with our so-called IT department
f.) I haven't tried Tiddly-Slidy in TSpace yet, but I don't feel 
optimistic, either that it will work, or that any attempts to enhance it by 
me will not run into moderately obscure difficulties. 
g.) I can demo simple javascript/CSS I think.

Then I look at WHY I am trying to do this...primarily to get better sharing 
of ideas and resources around the group, and secondarily to try to build 
up, over time, corporate knowledge of good practice. So it turns out that 
the things I don't know are the most important. 

On Wednesday, 11 July 2012 19:50:33 UTC+10, tejjyid wrote:

 I can't get ToggleFullScreen to work in Tiddlyspace - it's fine in 
 Tiddlyspot and/or file-based versions. I have the inlineJavaScript plugin - 
 any ideas?


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[tw] Re: ToggleFullScreen in Tiddlyspace

[tejjyid]

 
On Wednesday, 11 July 2012 23:41:11 UTC+10, PMario wrote:

 TS uses a different page layout. So ToggleFullScreen needs some 
 adjustment to work with TS. Do you use the TS default theme?? 
 -m


Hi PMario - I feel like I'm causing you a lot of bother :) Maybe I should 
switch back to Tiddlyspot...
Yes, I do use the default theme in Tiddlyspace.

To be honest, I need some advice about Space vs Spot. I started off with 
six different TW's in Spot, all on separate topics. Then I thought I'd like 
to share some tiddlers across topic, so I moved to Space. But an 
alternative would be to move all 6 spaces into one spot, and use tagging to 
separate the topics. None of them is huge.

I also had a plan to introduce some colleagues to Tiddlyspace and create a 
knowledge network, but I'm not sure that there's enough technical 
expertise/goodwill in my staffroom to make it work.

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[tw] ToggleFullScreen in Tiddlyspace

[tejjyid]

I can't get ToggleFullScreen to work in Tiddlyspace - it's fine in 
Tiddlyspot and/or file-based versions. I have the inlineJavaScript plugin - 
any ideas?

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[tw] Re: INTRO: Part Of Speech tagger TiddlyWiki/TiddlySpace

[tejjyid]

Thanks very much - I've started to play around with it. I'm curious as to 
why what you've done solves the problem, but maybe I don't need to know.

Can you tell me, does that big lexicon variable get loaded once, for the 
page, and then re-used?

Is PMario your id? I'll add it to andrewsimon.tiddlyspace.com, you can see 
what I do with it...

BTW, the output turns blue and bold when I run it?
I'll have to start doing some documentation work for this TW project, I 
think. It's an area where I think I can do something useful.

Andrew

On Friday, 6 July 2012 07:20:46 UTC+10, PMario wrote:

 Inspired by html javascript not working in TW [1] conversation, I 
 did create the postagger space http://postagger.tiddlyspace.com/. 

 I think, it's allready quite usefull but improvement can allway 
 happen :) 
 It can be used, if you include the postagger space into your own 
 space. 

 The functions itself are implemented as tiddler ... 
 transclusions. 

 helpTag [3] tiddler contains functions to tag sentenses and add some 
 help information on mouse over. 

 StyleSheet tiddler contains some tag coloring and editor CSS. 

 posTag [4] has the same function, but doesn't create the mouse over 
 stuff. 

 Usage 
 = 
 ! Input 
 some text to tag. 

 ! Output 
 tiddler helpTag##tag with: Input 

 where Input is a section within the same tiddler, that contains the 
 stuff, to be tagged. There are several other examples tagged 
 example 

 have fun! 
 -mario 

 [1] 
 http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki/browse_thread/thread/bdf28fdece2b4aa0
  
 [2] http://postagger.tiddlyspace.com/ 
 [3] http://postagger.tiddlyspace.com/#helpTag 
 [4] http://postagger.tiddlyspace.com/#posTag 

  
 If you want to improve this project, feedback and contribution is very 
 welcome. 
 A motivation donation is also welcome at: 
 http://pmario.tiddlyspace.com/#Motivation 


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[tw] Re: html javascript not working in TW?

[tejjyid]

Hi Mario - with the amount of help you are providing, you can work anywhere 
you like. I reckon I 
can 'port' anything you do in Tiddlyspace back to Tiddlywiki file if 
necessary.

I'll certainly be playing around with it a LOT before using it as a 
teaching aid. You are absolutely right, all those MLAs would kill
most students (my most high level student today admitted he doesn't really 
understand the difference between a noun and a verb - 
a big lesson for me to learn! - And in fact he is right, the distinction is 
not 100% simple).

Initially I think I will use it to color-code certain classes of words; for 
example, all finite verbs vs all non-finite verbs, an important 
distinction. Or perhaps,
all determiners in RED for the eastern Europeans (Actually I did this 
already, since DTs are easy to identify). I want to use authentic materials 
as source, but mark them up automatically to assist students with 
reading, or to illustrate features so students can postulate their own 
rules. I imagine a situation where a student can copy/paste a text they are 
interested in, and it turns into a kind of lesson.

I think illustration is more important than rules. (so in the case of NOUN 
vs VERB, I can use this tool - modded slightly - to paint the picture. Then 
the student can make his own rule, just like a native speaker has to)

So, anyway, it's a starting point. (mouse-over's are a good idea)

It will also help me prepare lessons - a student asked me about modal 
verbs, and I know they are interested in Italian art. So I can quickly 
identify sample sentences to illustrate a class on modals. Plus, in 
experimenting, ideas come.

Is there a principled reason why the code doesn't function? My next plan 
was to re-write in MY code, because
a.) Javascript lesson
b.) my code is so simple it wouldn't challenge a kindergarten student.

Yes, that is my job, pretty much. You might be interested that the most 
acceptable term these days is TESOL - Speakers of Other Languages, because 
let's be honest, many people already speak 2/3/4 languages before starting 
on English. 

I mainly teach students who are competent how to reach a standard suitable 
for university - newspapers, blogs, journal articles are the main texts we 
work with.

I'll polish my Tiddlyspace up a bit, and invite you to join it.

Thanks again for your time/interest.

Andrew
On Wednesday, July 4, 2012 5:59:19 PM UTC+10, PMario wrote:

 I got it working yesterday. You are right, there is a problem with the 
 lexer.js and the TW core program. So it didn't work out of the box. I 
 try to get in contact with the original author now, about the patches, 
 I did. 

 I didn't make a test (yet), if the modified library has the same 
 results, as the unmodified. So it's not sure, if it does work at all. 
 But there is no error message any more :) 

 TiddlySpace is much easier to handle and distribute (at least for me) 
 than a file TW. That's why the question. 

 There are some other questions left: 
 Do you plan to use it, or did you just want to play with the library 
 and see what's possible? As I wrote, I got it working without this 
 nasty error message you encountered. But the whole stuff imo isn't 
 usefull in a TiddlyWiki context. IOM there will be some work to do, to 
 make it usefull. see [a] 

 I also found some info about ESL teachers [1]. Is this, what you do? 

 [a] 
 So if ESL stands for English as a second language, and me as an ELL 
 English Language Learner, I'd find it diffucult to work with such 
 stuff, since the tagger uses MLA's (Multi letter acronyms) to discribe 
 a tagged sentence. I as a user, would want to have some more 
 description about: /DT /VBZ /NN on mouse over. 

 Does this make sense? 

 regards 
 mario 

 [1] http://www.wisegeek.com/what-does-an-esl-teacher-do.htm

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[tw] Re: html javascript not working in TW?

[tejjyid]

Thanks again. I did check the supplied snippet and was struck by the 
similarity - standards,eh :-)
Anyway, I've got the three tiddlers setup as you suggest - I assume the 
fact that the error comes from Lexer.js
means that the function has at least been found.

I'll play around with a few things, but I do appreciate your assistance. 
I'm an ESL teacher: my students probably feel about English
the way I feel about TW -powerful, but a bit tricky!
 

On Tuesday, 3 July 2012 10:10:19 UTC+10, PMario wrote:

 On Jul 3, 12:30 am, tejjyid andrew.x.w...@gmail.com wrote: 
  http://code.google.com/p/jspos/ 
  
  The string.match is not a function message comes out of the Lexer. 
  
  What I've done is put the POSTagger  Lexer functions, as well as the 
  database variables, 
  into the systemConfig-tagged tiddler (is its name important, and if 
  so, in what way?). Then I'm implemeting the body code snippet as 
  inline Javascript. 

 systemConfig tagged tiddlers are ordered by name and started in that 
 order by the TW core. So aa.js has higher priority than bb.js. 

 Did you have a look into sample.html with a text editor? 
 it's quite similar to my general description. 

 script type=text/javascript src=lexer.js/script 
 script type=text/javascript src=lexicon.js_/script 
 script type=text/javascript src=POSTagger.js/script 

 If you name your tiddlers Lexer.js, Lexicon.js_ and POSTagger.js they 
 will be started in the right order. Uppercase has higher priority than 
 lowercase. 

 I'll have a closer look but not now :) 
 -m 


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[tw] Re: html javascript not working in TW?

[tejjyid]

It's hard to choose; I've been developing a space (for which I've written 
some simple macros) but this I thought I'd develop this in a file (in case 
it went pear-shaped).

I guess that a Space is not strictly speaking required, unless I get my 
staffroom involved in a collaborative project. The flexibility of TW makes 
it perfect for teachers, sort of. Although with freedom comes 
responsibility...

Andrew

On Tuesday, 3 July 2012 23:24:33 UTC+10, PMario wrote:

 Andrew, 
 Do you need this stuff with a file TiddlyWiki or as a TiddlySpace 
 space? 

 Where did you start from? 

 http://tiddlywiki.com  or 
 http://tiddlyspace.com 

 On 3 Jul., 12:18, tejjyid andrew.x.w...@gmail.com wrote: 
  Thanks again. I did check the supplied snippet and was struck by the 
  similarity - standards,eh :-) 
 q:-) 

  I'm an ESL teacher: my students probably feel about English 
  the way I feel about TW -powerful, but a bit tricky! 
 ESL? 
 It seems TW is quite attractive for any type of teaching ... 

 -m 


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[tw] Re: html javascript not working in TW?

[tejjyid]

Hi Mario - I'm working through your suggestions (intalled the
#InlineJavaScript plugin, Firebug, done some debugging) and I've got a
lot more to do, but sadly there was no easy win. I still get the
same message.

Feel free to ignore this, but if you have the time/inclination, here's
the link to the code I'm trying to implement.

http://code.google.com/p/jspos/

The string.match is not a function message comes out of the Lexer.

What I've done is put the POSTagger  Lexer functions, as well as the
database variables,
into the systemConfig-tagged tiddler (is its name important, and if
so, in what way?). Then I'm implemeting the body code snippet as
inline Javascript.

Thanks, Andrew

On Jun 30, 11:58 pm, PMario pmari...@gmail.com wrote:
 TiddlyWiki is more like an application, than an HTML page.

 Everything in TW is stored inside a tiddler. While tiddlers are only
 stored inside the HTML file, they are not automatically handeld by the
 browsers script engine. They are handled by the TW core program. So
 the handling is a bit different.

 One common html way to acitvate libraries and scripts is similar to
 this:

 html
   head
     titleSome title text/title
 a) link rel=stylesheet href=../lib/externalLibrary.css
 b) script src=../lib/externalLibrary.js/script
 ...
 c)/head
   body

 d)script
     externalLib.doSomething = function (externalGlobalVar)  {
        // do some stuff here.
     }
   /script

   /body
 /html

 If you copy this snippet into a tiddler it will __not__ work and it
 shouldn't, because it doesn't fit TWs structure.

 

 In TW terms: (see markers above)

 a) is done with StyleSheet tiddlers, that are activated by the TW
 core.

 b) are library tiddlers tagged systemConfig.

 d) is a plugin call

 =
 The TW way would be similar to this:

 a)
 Copy the content of the CSS (only if it is _really_ needed) to a
 StyleSheetLibX tiddler. If it says eg: reset.css _don't_ use it. Only
 use library specific css.

 Call this tiddler from StyleSheet

 eg: StyleSheet contains
 [[StyleSheetLibX]]

 b)
 Copy the _content_ of the externalLibrary.js into a tiddler named
 externalLibrary.js and tag it systemConfig

 c) Go to tiddlytools.com and find InlineJavascriptPlugin [1] and
 import it to your test TW. Be sure to read and understand
 InlineJavascriptPluginInfo!
 tag it systemConfig. IinlineJavascriptPlugin activates the use of
 script/script tags inside a tiddler. This is super cool for fast
 prototyping, since you can use most of externalLibraries
 documentation. If you know how things work, you should create TW
 plugins.

 d) copy something similar to
 script
     externalLib.doSomething = function (externalGlobalVar)  {
        // do some stuff here.
     }
   /script

 into a tiddler. __don't__ tag it systemConfig

 If the library documentation says something like:

 script src=bla bla
     externalLib.doSomething = function (externalGlobalVar)  {
        // do some stuff here.
     }
 /script

 _remove_ the src=bla bla it is not needed with inline javascript
 plugin, if you did step a) to c) right.

 
 You can use
 script label=clickMe
 /script

 to create a button. This will make debugging easier.

 For debugging you should use FireBug browser AddOn for FireFox or the
 built in DevTools in Chrome and IE9+

 

 If you would have added a link to your library of desire, the examples
 could be more prezise but imo it will give you some hints :)

 have fun!
 mario

 [1]http://www.tiddlytools.com/#InlineJavascriptPlugin

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[tw] Re: html javascript not working in TW?

[tejjyid]

I had a feeling it might be something like that - I understand that there 
is a TW handler involved, but it's a bit hairy trying to piece it 
together from the extant doco. Anyway, I'll work through all this here, and 
update as I go.
 
Appreciate the scope of the detail in the response.
 
Thanks, Andrew

On Saturday, 30 June 2012 23:58:42 UTC+10, PMario wrote:

 TiddlyWiki is more like an application, than an HTML page. 

 Everything in TW is stored inside a tiddler. While tiddlers are only 
 stored inside the HTML file, they are not automatically handeld by the 
 browsers script engine. They are handled by the TW core program. So 
 the handling is a bit different. 

 One common html way to acitvate libraries and scripts is similar to 
 this: 

 html 
   head 
 titleSome title text/title 
 a) link rel=stylesheet href=../lib/externalLibrary.css 
 b) script src=../lib/externalLibrary.js/script 
 ... 
 c)/head 
   body 

 d)script 
 externalLib.doSomething = function (externalGlobalVar)  { 
// do some stuff here. 
 } 
   /script 

   /body 
 /html 

 If you copy this snippet into a tiddler it will __not__ work and it 
 shouldn't, because it doesn't fit TWs structure. 

  

 In TW terms: (see markers above) 

 a) is done with StyleSheet tiddlers, that are activated by the TW 
 core. 

 b) are library tiddlers tagged systemConfig. 

 d) is a plugin call 

 = 
 The TW way would be similar to this: 

 a) 
 Copy the content of the CSS (only if it is _really_ needed) to a 
 StyleSheetLibX tiddler. If it says eg: reset.css _don't_ use it. Only 
 use library specific css. 

 Call this tiddler from StyleSheet 

 eg: StyleSheet contains 
 [[StyleSheetLibX]] 

 b) 
 Copy the _content_ of the externalLibrary.js into a tiddler named 
 externalLibrary.js and tag it systemConfig 

 c) Go to tiddlytools.com and find InlineJavascriptPlugin [1] and 
 import it to your test TW. Be sure to read and understand 
 InlineJavascriptPluginInfo! 
 tag it systemConfig. IinlineJavascriptPlugin activates the use of 
 script/script tags inside a tiddler. This is super cool for fast 
 prototyping, since you can use most of externalLibraries 
 documentation. If you know how things work, you should create TW 
 plugins. 

 d) copy something similar to 
 script 
 externalLib.doSomething = function (externalGlobalVar)  { 
// do some stuff here. 
 } 
   /script 

 into a tiddler. __don't__ tag it systemConfig 


 If the library documentation says something like: 

 script src=bla bla 
 externalLib.doSomething = function (externalGlobalVar)  { 
// do some stuff here. 
 } 
 /script 

 _remove_ the src=bla bla it is not needed with inline javascript 
 plugin, if you did step a) to c) right. 

  
 You can use 
 script label=clickMe 
 /script 

 to create a button. This will make debugging easier. 

 For debugging you should use FireBug browser AddOn for FireFox or the 
 built in DevTools in Chrome and IE9+ 

  

 If you would have added a link to your library of desire, the examples 
 could be more prezise but imo it will give you some hints :) 

 have fun! 
 mario 

 [1] http://www.tiddlytools.com/#InlineJavascriptPlugin 


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[tw] html javascript not working in TW?

[tejjyid]

I have a couple of functions in the head of an html page, which work fine 
when called from a script elsewhere on that page. I wanted to implement the 
same functionality in TW, so I copied the JS which defines the functions to 
a sysConfig-tagged tiddler, then tried using the functions in another 
tiddler. This fails with string.match() is not a function.

This is all extremely new to me, so apologies if this is something 
blindingly obvious. I will keep nutting away at it, but maybe someone can 
save me some time? It's a (the jspos2) POS tagger, in case you're 
interested.

Thanks

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[tw] Re: getTiddlerText

[tejjyid]

Thanks mate, I'm onto it.

On Monday, 25 June 2012 03:32:46 UTC+10, PMario wrote:

 Andrew, 
 I did a little hello world [1] how to, that shows 3 different 
 macros. If you start in the main menue, top to bottom, they get more 
 features. The code is commented, so it should be possible to get, 
 how they are ment. 

 You can include the helloworld space into one of your spaces and play 
 with the macros. If you mess them up, just rename them and you have a 
 fresh start using the examples :) 

 you should have FireBug or the Chrome dev tools at hand for debugging. 

 have fun! 
 mario 

 [1] http://helloworld.tiddlyspace.com/ 


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[tw] Re: getTiddlerText

[tejjyid]

Ahhh - well, I am using TiddlySpace - thx.

So I thought instead I'd just use the myTiddlerName as the parameter and 
then use the getTiddlerText inside the macro.
Now I'm getting TypeError tiddler.fields is undefined whenever I execute 
the macro.

Anyway, I'll keep playing around, all this trial-and-error is very e
ducational

Andrew

On Saturday, 23 June 2012 18:45:44 UTC+10, PMario wrote:

 Hi Andrew, 
 I'm not sure, if you use TiddlySpace or not. but ... 
 Evaluated macro parameters are deactivated by default with 
 TiddlySpace, due to security concerns. 
 -m

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[tw] getTiddlerText

[tejjyid]

A couple of things - maybe they should be separated:

I was wanting to create a tabs based structure, where one tab would 
show a base text, and other tabs would show (programmatic) annotations of 
this base. I thought each tab could point to a macro with a parameter 
string which included the original base text.
So I tried myMacro {{tiddler.getTiddlerText(myTiddler)}} following 
http://oldwiki.tiddlywiki.org/wiki/Dev:Custom_Macros, and then I looked at 
http://tiddlywiki.tiddlyspace.com/#TiddlyWiki.prototype.getTiddlerText, 
which looked like an alternative plan, but neither worked. It seems that 
the string is never evaluated before being passed to the macro.

So the 2 things are: 

1.) Why are the getTiddlerText methods(?) not working, and
2.) Is there a pre-existing template/macro/script for doing what I want to 
do?

Clarifications on request :-)

Thanks in anticipation
Andrew

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[tw] Re: getTiddlerText

[tejjyid]

Thanks, I'll look into this.

I did realise that the myMacro was only an example :) - the problem was/is 
that I should be able to pass data to the macro, and the {{...}} should 
cause the included expression to be evaluated before being passed as data 
to the macro. So then, the store.getTiddlerText(YourTiddlerName) should 
be evaluated and the text the passed off to myMacro.

So, if that understanding is correct, I had 2 apparent problems:
1.) should I use tiddler.getTiddlerText (as per wiki), or 
store.getTiddlerText (as per tiddlySpace FAQ)? From your reply I can see 
that you favour the latter, so I'll persist with that
2.) no apparent evaluation was occurring inside the {{...}}. Again, using 
your reply I can seen an alternative, but I'm still a little curious as to 
what's happening in my initial situation.

Anyway, on the cat-skinning principle, I'll wander off and try your 
suggestion(s)  let you know how it goes.

Thanks again, Andrew

On Friday, June 22, 2012 6:10:43 PM UTC+10, whatever wrote:

 Hi! 

 the myMacro is only an example. You actually need to write your own 
 macro in javascript. 
 To get the tiddler text, you need to use the following: 
 var text = store.getTiddlerText(YourTiddlerName); 

 Then you can use the text variable further on. Check out a random 
 tiddlywiki plugin to see how the macros are declared. 

 Perhaps some other javascript guru can write a more detailed 
 explanation. 

 As an alternative plan, however, perhaps you can use the 
 forEachTiddlerPlugin (1) and simple transclusions: 

 In tiddler called Lists (or whatever you wanna call it), put: 
 !Base 
 forEachTiddler where 'tiddler.tags.contains(myTag)' 
 write 'tiddler [[+tiddler.text+##Base]]\\n' 
 !Annotations 
 forEachTiddler where 'tiddler.tags.contains(myTag)' 
 write 'tiddler [[+tiddler.text+##Annotations]]\\n' 
 !Macro 
 forEachTiddler where 'tiddler.tags.contains(myTag)' 
 write 'tiddler [[+tiddler.text+##Macro]]\\n' 

 In another tiddler, put this: 
 tabs txtMyTabs Base Base List##Base Annotations 
 Annotations List##Annotations Macro Macro List##Macro 

 That way you have three tabs and each contains certain content. If I 
 understood correctly what you wanted, of course. :D And I'm sure there 
 are other solutions. 

 (1) http://tiddlywiki.abego-software.de/#ForEachTiddlerPlugin 

 w 

 On Jun 22, 8:34 am, tejjyid andrew.x.w...@gmail.com wrote: 
  A couple of things - maybe they should be separated: 
  
  I was wanting to create a tabs based structure, where one tab would 
  show a base text, and other tabs would show (programmatic) annotations 
 of 
  this base. I thought each tab could point to a macro with a parameter 
  string which included the original base text. 
  So I tried myMacro {{tiddler.getTiddlerText(myTiddler)}} 
 followinghttp://oldwiki.tiddlywiki.org/wiki/Dev:Custom_Macros, and then I 
 looked athttp://
 tiddlywiki.tiddlyspace.com/#TiddlyWiki.prototype.getTiddlerText, 
  which looked like an alternative plan, but neither worked. It seems that 
  the string is never evaluated before being passed to the macro. 
  
  So the 2 things are: 
  
  1.) Why are the getTiddlerText methods(?) not working, and 
  2.) Is there a pre-existing template/macro/script for doing what I want 
 to 
  do? 
  
  Clarifications on request :-) 
  
  Thanks in anticipation 
  Andrew

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[tw] Re: CORS - Import from local tiddlywiki file

[tejjyid]

Yep, that worked, thanks a lot.

Now, on to the next load of problems...

Andrew

On Wednesday, 30 May 2012 23:44:34 UTC+10, Måns wrote:

 Hi Kristofer and Andrew 

 Install Jon's TiddlyFileImportr manually (copy/paste and tag with 
 systemConfig) or simply download the TW with the plugin: 

 http://xn--mns-ula.dk/TW/Gilles/ 
 It replaces the standard import function - and it seems to work very 
 well 

 Cheers Måns Mårtensson 

 On 30 Maj, 13:15, tejjyid andrew.x.w...@gmail.com wrote: 
  i have a similar problem, with curious twist... 
  
  CORS is for cross-domain import, so I don't think that applies to 
  local files. 
  
  For me, I can't import tiddlers to a 2.6.5 TW downloaded from 
  tiddlwiki.com, BUT I can import tiddlers to a 
  TW - which also self reports as 2.6.5 - downloaded from 
  tiddlyspace.com. 
  
  There's a lot less iconography in the tiddliwiki.com template, so I'm 
  thinking about going back to it. 
  
  Any ideas on the apparent asymmetry? I would have expected to be able 
  to import to any 2.6.5 TW from any other 2.6.5 TW? 
  
  Thanks, Andrew 
  
  On May 30, 7:35 pm, KH kristofer.hans...@gmail.com wrote: 
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
   How do I import from a local TiddlyWiki file? 
   I get the error message Error retrieving tiddlers from url, please 
   ensure this url exists and is CORS enabled and can't find any 
   information on getting a local file not complaining about this. 
  
   /Kristofer

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[tw] Re: CORS - Import from local tiddlywiki file

[tejjyid]

i have a similar problem, with curious twist...

CORS is for cross-domain import, so I don't think that applies to
local files.

For me, I can't import tiddlers to a 2.6.5 TW downloaded from
tiddlwiki.com, BUT I can import tiddlers to a
TW - which also self reports as 2.6.5 - downloaded from
tiddlyspace.com.

There's a lot less iconography in the tiddliwiki.com template, so I'm
thinking about going back to it.

Any ideas on the apparent asymmetry? I would have expected to be able
to import to any 2.6.5 TW from any other 2.6.5 TW?

Thanks, Andrew

On May 30, 7:35 pm, KH kristofer.hans...@gmail.com wrote:
 How do I import from a local TiddlyWiki file?
 I get the error message Error retrieving tiddlers from url, please
 ensure this url exists and is CORS enabled and can't find any
 information on getting a local file not complaining about this.

 /Kristofer

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[tw] Re: multi-line output from macros

[tejjyid]

Well, that's embarrassingly simple! And after all my ingenious (and
futile) attempts

Thanks a lot

On Dec 10, 5:54 pm, Eric Shulman elsdes...@gmail.com wrote:
  Presumably I have to add some linebreaks, but how does wikify(0 know
  that
  |||br/ isn't a single row?

  I tried that, in fact, and it doesn't split the lines.

 To insert a newline character into text, use the javascript 'escaped
 character' sequence:
    \n
 Like this:
    wikify(|first|row|\n|second|row|\n|third|row|,...);

 enjoy,
 -e

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[tw] Re: multi-line output from macros

[tejjyid]

I'm using wikify to write out a string X|X|X|X|X|X|br/
- the br/ is breaking the line, but the | is not turning into a
table separator.
What I get looks like a table in edit mode, rather than display
mode.

Thanks, Andrew

On Dec 9, 10:05 pm, Eric Shulman elsdes...@gmail.com wrote:
  My plan is to parse the input  bung it into a table; what I can't
  work out is how to write out the table from the macro.

 You can easily generate wiki-syntax text and then render it from a
 macro, using the wikify() function, like this:

 config.macros.myMacro={
    handler:
 function(place,macroName,params,wikifier,paramString,tiddler) {
       var out=;
       // ... your code here ...
       wikify(out,place,null,tiddler);
    }

 }

 Alternatively, if you want to generate HTML syntax, you can render it,
 like this:

 config.macros.myMacro={
    handler:
 function(place,macroName,params,wikifier,paramString,tiddler) {
       var out=;
       // ... your code here ...
       place.innherHTML=out;
    }

 }

 enjoy,
 -e
 Eric Shulman
 TiddlyTools / ELS Design Studios

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[tw] Re: multi-line output from macros

[tejjyid]

I used wikify() to write out a string variable like ||A|K|Q|||br/
 - and that's what I see, it doesn't turn into a table row.

Thanks, Andrew

On Dec 9, 10:05 pm, Eric Shulman elsdes...@gmail.com wrote:
  My plan is to parse the input  bung it into a table; what I can't
  work out is how to write out the table from the macro.

 You can easily generate wiki-syntax text and then render it from a
 macro, using the wikify() function, like this:

 config.macros.myMacro={
    handler:
 function(place,macroName,params,wikifier,paramString,tiddler) {
       var out=;
       // ... your code here ...
       wikify(out,place,null,tiddler);
    }

 }

 Alternatively, if you want to generate HTML syntax, you can render it,
 like this:

 config.macros.myMacro={
    handler:
 function(place,macroName,params,wikifier,paramString,tiddler) {
       var out=;
       // ... your code here ...
       place.innherHTML=out;
    }

 }

 enjoy,
 -e
 Eric Shulman
 TiddlyTools / ELS Design Studios

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[tw] Re: multi-line output from macros

[tejjyid]

OK, I chucked out the br/ from the string, now I have one table for
each line of output, rather than one twelve row table.

I guess that's progress.

It's puzzling; if I hardcode the output of the macro (what I expect,
anyway) in the same tiddler that calls the macro the hardcoded table
is OK.
I'm missing something here.

Andrew


On Dec 10, 1:42 pm, tejjyid andrew.x.w...@gmail.com wrote:
 I'm using wikify to write out a string X|X|X|X|X|X|br/
 - the br/ is breaking the line, but the | is not turning into a
 table separator.
 What I get looks like a table in edit mode, rather than display
 mode.

 Thanks, Andrew

 On Dec 9, 10:05 pm, Eric Shulman elsdes...@gmail.com wrote:

   My plan is to parse the input  bung it into a table; what I can't
   work out is how to write out the table from the macro.

  You can easily generate wiki-syntax text and then render it from a
  macro, using the wikify() function, like this:

  config.macros.myMacro={
     handler:
  function(place,macroName,params,wikifier,paramString,tiddler) {
        var out=;
        // ... your code here ...
        wikify(out,place,null,tiddler);
     }

  }

  Alternatively, if you want to generate HTML syntax, you can render it,
  like this:

  config.macros.myMacro={
     handler:
  function(place,macroName,params,wikifier,paramString,tiddler) {
        var out=;
        // ... your code here ...
        place.innherHTML=out;
     }

  }

  enjoy,
  -e
  Eric Shulman
  TiddlyTools / ELS Design Studios

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[tw] Re: multi-line output from macros

[tejjyid]

I see this is because each call to wikify() builds the table out of
the row it has; hence the 12 1 row tables.
That means I have to pass all 12 rows as one variable (I assume), but
how is wikify() going to know that isn'yt one extremely long single
row table?
Presumably I have to add some linebreaks, but how does wikify(0 know
that
|||br/ isn't a single row?

I tried that, in fact, and it doesn't split the lines.

Sorry for thinking out loud.

Andrew

On Dec 10, 2:42 pm, tejjyid andrew.x.w...@gmail.com wrote:
 OK, I chucked out the br/ from the string, now I have one table for
 each line of output, rather than one twelve row table.

 I guess that's progress.

 It's puzzling; if I hardcode the output of the macro (what I expect,
 anyway) in the same tiddler that calls the macro the hardcoded table
 is OK.
 I'm missing something here.

 Andrew

 On Dec 10, 1:42 pm, tejjyid andrew.x.w...@gmail.com wrote:

  I'm using wikify to write out a string X|X|X|X|X|X|br/
  - the br/ is breaking the line, but the | is not turning into a
  table separator.
  What I get looks like a table in edit mode, rather than display
  mode.

  Thanks, Andrew

  On Dec 9, 10:05 pm, Eric Shulman elsdes...@gmail.com wrote:

My plan is to parse the input  bung it into a table; what I can't
work out is how to write out the table from the macro.

   You can easily generate wiki-syntax text and then render it from a
   macro, using the wikify() function, like this:

   config.macros.myMacro={
      handler:
   function(place,macroName,params,wikifier,paramString,tiddler) {
         var out=;
         // ... your code here ...
         wikify(out,place,null,tiddler);
      }

   }

   Alternatively, if you want to generate HTML syntax, you can render it,
   like this:

   config.macros.myMacro={
      handler:
   function(place,macroName,params,wikifier,paramString,tiddler) {
         var out=;
         // ... your code here ...
         place.innherHTML=out;
      }

   }

   enjoy,
   -e
   Eric Shulman
   TiddlyTools / ELS Design Studios

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[tw] multi-line output from macros

[tejjyid]

I wanted to write a macro to take a bridge hand (could be any game) in
a format like, say, ((a,k,q;j,t,9;8,7,6;5,4,3,2),(j,t,
9;8,7,6;5,4,3,2;A,k,q),(8,7,6;5,4,3,2;a,k,q;j,t,9),(5,4,3,2;a,k,q;j,t,
9;8,7,6)) and reformat is as the classic newspaper column diagram,
with the four hands arranged around a box representing the table.

My plan is to parse the input  bung it into a table; what I can't
work out is how to write out the table from the macro.

Appreciate any help; I have looked around a bit, but couldn't find
anything.

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