Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

Hi, It looks like Synergy makes some really nice devices. Actually, I now know first hand that they do. I'm sure their module would be an excellent choice for some applications. I've made some progress on my own REF-0 project and the Denuo GPS board. I've also decided to expand the scope and

[time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

On the new board, I would add a header for GPS TXD/RXD/PPS/PWR/GND to make it easy to play with different GPS modules... ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to

Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

Bob - Thank you for reference to the Synergy SSR-6T. I talked to Gina at Synergy early today. The Synergy SSR-6T is still available, but now at the regular price of $68.20 The Synergy SSR-6T GPS receiver would likely not be appropriate for usage in the Lucent KS-24361, since it does

Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

Hi The (likely) biggest issue with the M12 clone boards is that they are 12 channel. The report strings have more satellites in them than the old 8 channel boards did. That’s going to mess up the parsing algorithms if you want the REF-0 to work with all the data (record the sat info vs ignore

Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

selling their older SSR-6Tr boards at a discount as they update their product line.  I haven't tried this out, though. Bob - AE6RV From: Gregory Beat <w...@icloud.com> To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Monday, October 5, 2015 12:57 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

I went back to the Time-Nuts archives, and noted that a modern GPS receiver to replace the Motorola Oncore UT+ (8-channel, timing) in the HP Z3801A was discussed 3 years ago (Sept, 2012). https://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/2012-September/070132.html Bob Camp suggested something like a

Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

Hi At that time (and today) a 3801 is a “well over $300” sort of box at auction. The REF-0 box hovers between $25 and $40 depending on the direction the wind is blowing. Cost does matter …. What makes sense on a $800 gizmo probably does not make sense on a $80 stitch up project. Yes you

Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

There are a number of uBlox modules (6 to 8 series; and sizes) that are hitting the surplus venues, I saw some LEA-6T in the $30 to $50 price range as well as newer 8-series. Since the PCB is being designed for the NEO size/footprint I'll look at what is available in surplus. g. beat

Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Gregory > Beat > Sent: Friday, October 02, 2015 6:07 PM > To: time-nuts@febo.com > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone > > Dan - > > I have been following your experimentation with the surplus Luce

Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

Hi There are a number of papers out there (check the NIST archive) on GPS vs Gloanss timing. The simple answer at this point is “don’t bother”. Bob > On Oct 3, 2015, at 1:28 AM, Hal Murray wrote: > > > kb...@n1k.org said: >> The main thing you get with the 7’s (vs

Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

tter. > > > > Disclaimer: I haven't studied RAIM (or TRAIM) enough to know exactly > > what goes on, but that's the behavior I've observed. > > > > Bill Hawkins > > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun.

Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

kb...@n1k.org said: > The main thing you get with the 7’s (vs the 5 and 6) is the ability to > switch over to Glonass. With the 8’s you get the ability to run Glonass plus > GPS at the same time. In both cases, you get nothing from the Glonass > constellation that’s worth the switch. In a

Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

Dan - I have been following your experimentation with the surplus Lucent KS-24361 REF-0 module, to transform it into a standalone GPSDO. The original usage of the classic Oncore UT+ GPS receiver for KS-24361 REF-1, by Symmetricom / Datum for Lucent, was deliberate. For usage at a cellular

Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

] On Behalf Of Gregory Beat Sent: Friday, October 02, 2015 6:07 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone Dan - I have been following your experimentation with the surplus Lucent KS-24361 REF-0 module, to transform it into a standalone GPSDO. The original usage

Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

Gregory, Thanks for your comments. You are absolutely right that a timing GPS module is required to make this a proper Time-Nuts solution. I know that many on the list have been thinking the same thing when they read my posts. Cost alone is what has prevented me from going directly to that

Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

Hi Given that eBay is awash in various older uBlox devices at really low prices, going for the > $200 a unit single piece price of the LEA-8T seems a bit much. You get all of the core timing functions in the “not T” parts (including sawtooth data). The main thing you get with the 7’s (vs the 5

Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

Hi, Here's a little progress report on my REF-0 project. Though there hasn't been a lot of activity in this thread recently, I do hope that some more people have successfully gotten their REF-0s up and running. My goal all along has been to retrofit a modern GPS into the REF-0. Over the past

Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

To add a note to this fine conversation. I have built up several different arduinos to drive the REF 0s using Dans program. They all worked and the last unit is the postage stamp size arduino mini. Interestingly its close to the same form factor as the ublox neo6 I have been using. A $11 wonder.

Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

Thanks for doing these write-ups. I've bought several units from the US supplier with the intention of getting shipping down to a sensible level, and have a lash-up based on your article which has had all the first few running. They won't lock to anything far off 1pps so need a properly working

Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

All, I hope some more of you have had luck getting your REF-0s running standalone. My earlier write-ups were focused on the bare minimum connections and code needed to make a REF-0 work. Of course, external connections are not ideal for long-term operations. The real end-state here is to have a

Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

I also did a quick write up recently about how I added the 10MHz test point output to my REF-1. Hi Daniel Many thanks for your 10Mhz write up for the REF-1, that's very interesting and a nice bit of detective work. Back in January I took a quick look at the underside of a REF-1 board

Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

Nigel, this is very useful. Thanks. I don't particularly like how the 10MHz test point signal is generated. I made my modification easily reversible so that I could change it when I found a better way. I will explore the area you describe in your notes. Best regards Dan On Aug 15, 2015, at

Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

HI The phase noise and spur plots I posted earlier on the 10 MHz out of the REF-0 are at least as bad on that test point. Bob On Aug 15, 2015, at 8:48 AM, GandalfG8--- via time-nuts time-nuts@febo.com wrote: I also did a quick write up recently about how I added the 10MHz test point

Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

All, I have posted some example code for running the REF-0 standalone. There is an Arduino sketch and some AVR C code. (Just in time for the weekend) http://syncchannel.blogspot.com/2015/08/example-code-for-ks-24361-ref-0.html I also did a quick write up recently about how I added the 10MHz

Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

Hi If you are in a hurry, the ever popular guys like Mouser, Digikey, Farnell, and RS all sell both the 9 pin and 15 pin connectors that mate up to the KS boxes. You are indeed correct that in bulk, the Chinese outfits have really attractive prices. Just the connector body for the the same

Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

Bob OK my favorite places to start and order from are Mouser and Digikey. Not to go off track here but as of late both sites don't return what you are asking for. The datasheets are often inaccurate or not there. This connector was indeed one of those strange events. Oh no problem always returning

Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

OK I can contribute at least something. Given the popular REF1 thread. Ebay has some 15 pin connectors that appear to be whats needed 10 for $3.49 shipping from China makes it $5.50. The all sell singles at 99 cents. I ordered a set today and should see them in several weeks. Granted they are not

Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

Re the Ref-0 Ref-1 difference. Might be easier to find in the difference between PForth dumps? R0 and R1 may simply be differences in words? Don Bob Camp Hi Yes, Paul posted a link yesterday that includes a link of the words dump from pForth. Bob On Aug 9, 2015, at 9:51 PM, Don Latham

Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

Hi Adrian, I've recently ordered two pairs to go with my earlier REF-1 units and found there was quite a significant saving on postage, even with the original packaging which I decided was a safer option, but don't forget there's a very high chance these days that you'll get hit with VAT

Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

Hi, for use in audio setup we got some Ref-0. The audio project was quit (the better is the enemy of good ,-). Please contact me directly rather than via the list if you're interested in one or more (50 EUR each + shipping costs within EU). Ulli Am 12.08.2015 um 01:16 schrieb Bob Camp:

Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

These seem a good deal but the shipping price to the UK puts me off a bit - it's 3 x the price of the unit. I've looked into shipping a number of them to get a better rate and it seems worthwhile. I'm happy to sell them on to time-nuts at cost (will include shipping and duty) and ebay the

Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

Hi I suspect that postage throughout Europe would be much better after a bulk transit over the ocean. The units are already (or maybe better put still) packed in air shipping boxes with “Korean Air” tags on them. The seller then re-boxes those inside another box. I would not have any real fear

Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

I've ordered some. Please contact me directly rather than via the list if you're interested in one or more. The seller will repackaged them to reduce shipping so they won't be boxed quite as advertised but should be good enough. On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 12:16 AM, Bob Camp kb...@n1k.org wrote:

Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

Hi Yes, Paul posted a link yesterday that includes a link of the words dump from pForth. Bob On Aug 9, 2015, at 9:51 PM, Don Latham d...@montana.com wrote: Excellent. The words can be dumped to give a better idea about what's going on? Bob Camp Hi

Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

Dan A really nice blog even with colored dots on the pins. Can't get much better then that. Fantastic on the strings that are needed to keep the Ref 0 happy and there timing. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 7:16 AM, Bob Camp kb...@n1k.org wrote: Hi Yes, Paul posted a link

Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone Hi As far as I know, the Symmetricom / HP designs that were done in the SA era (this is one of them) did not use the sawtooth correction information. The signal spreading

Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone Hi As far as I know, the Symmetricom / HP designs that were done in the SA era (this is one of them) did not use the sawtooth correction information. The signal spreading (at the time

Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

-Original Message- From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bob Camp Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2015 6:33 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone Hi As far as I know, the Symmetricom

Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

Camp Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2015 6:33 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone Hi As far as I know, the Symmetricom / HP designs that were done in the SA era (this is one of them) did not use the sawtooth correction

Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

Am 09.08.2015 um 21:48 schrieb Pete Lancashire: 100% 2nd the thanks to all. OMG. 27 bytes of good technical content in a 19.7 KBytes message with 13 levels of citing. Please, everybody, snip the context that is no longer needed. regards, Gerhard

Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

: Saturday, August 08, 2015 6:33 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone Hi As far as I know, the Symmetricom / HP designs that were done in the SA era (this is one of them) did not use the sawtooth correction

Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

, August 08, 2015 6:33 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone Hi As far as I know, the Symmetricom / HP designs that were done in the SA era (this is one of them) did not use the sawtooth correction information

Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

[mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bob Camp Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2015 6:33 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone Hi As far as I know, the Symmetricom / HP designs that were done in the SA era

Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

All, I have completed a write-up on how to make the REF-0 run standalone. As there is a lot to cover, I decided to split it up into two (or more) parts. This first part summarizes what is required on the interface pins, and details what I have discovered about the serial string timing. If you

Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

-Original Message- From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bob Camp Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2015 6:33 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone Hi As far as I know, the Symmetricom / HP

Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

Hi As far as I know, the Symmetricom / HP designs that were done in the SA era (this is one of them) did not use the sawtooth correction information. The signal spreading (at the time they were designed) was just to great to make it worth playing with. I have no authoritative source for that,

Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

On 08/06/2015 07:27 PM, Edesio Costa e Silva wrote: Had anyone managed to run the KS-24361 REF-0, the one without GPS, as a standalone unit? If so, can you provide some links on how to configure it? I have two REF-0 units spare: at $25, the Milliren OCXOs are treasures. I am configuring them

Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

Hi It’s a good bet that the REF-1 is set up to allow a hot swap of the REF-0 unit. In a cell site, you would not want a working REF-1 to go down when you replaced a blown REF-0. You would *think* that the same logic applies to a REF-1 booting up initially. For what ever reason, it does not

Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

: Saturday, August 08, 2015 6:33 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone Hi As far as I know, the Symmetricom / HP designs that were done in the SA era (this is one of them) did not use the sawtooth correction information

Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

Hi Given my history of mentioning this sort of thing on the list, the listing will be gone before this makes it past the poor suffering list server. The REF-0’s still showed up at $25 each or $50 for a pair ( = better net shipping) last time I looked. I agree that even without being able to

Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

[mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Bob Camp Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2015 6:33 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone Hi As far as I know, the Symmetricom / HP designs that were done in the SA era

Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

Yes, I'm hoping that it just wants a dummy string to say GPS is ok, and doesn't actually use any information in it. If that's the case, code can be developed for PIC and AVR that will work for just about anyone, using a ~$1 chip. Even if the string does need to contain real GPS info, it should

Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

Hi Here’s a quick and dirty approach to getting a Z3812A, KS-24361 L101, RFTG-u, Ref-0 box up and running on it’s own. == First P1 the +24VDC input. It’s a male 9 pin connector. The pins are all labeled on the connector. The numbers are small, but they are

Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 6:06 PM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: Looking forward to the notes. Yes it could be fairly simple if what ref 0 wants is a string that essentially says the system is fixed with 3 d accuracy. Perhaps after that the ref 0 makes no checks other then the string keeps

Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

Dan exactly my thinking. I will guess it wants the string that says I have a 3d position lock. Something like @@ and 30-40 characters that would be fixed.I think there is a CRC at the end. But all of the message can be copied from a real oncore or simply monitor what comes out of the KS GPS unit.

Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

Looking forward to the notes. Yes it could be fairly simple if what ref 0 wants is a string that essentially says the system is fixed with 3 d accuracy. Perhaps after that the ref 0 makes no checks other then the string keeps coming with the correct quality. Not to push a particular proc but any

Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone Hi Ok, I will write something up and post it here. It will probably take a few days to get it all into a form that answers most of the questions. What you will need: 1) A working REF-0 2) A PIC or other micro to get things going 3) A GPS with a PPS output (any

Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

Hi You need to get the Oncore running with the correct position locked in and spitting out the right strings. That’s all done by the CPU in the REF-1 unit. The REF-0 simply grabs the data off of the string as it comes by. I’ll see if I can dig out the information and send it to you off list.

Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

Hi People got a bit “excited” about the level of KS box discussions. All of the work decoding the 15 pin connector and how to drive the REF-0 was taken off list. Simple answer: Yes you can run a REF-0 by it’s self. It needs a dummy string that looks like the output of a Motorola Oncore to

Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

Thanks. I have some Motorola Oncore available. Can you detail this fairly simple manipulation of the signal lines? Regards, Edésio On Thu, Aug 06, 2015 at 09:57:20PM -0400, Bob Camp wrote: Hi People got a bit ???excited??? about the level of KS box discussions. All of the work decoding

Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

Bob there is enough interest you may want to resend it here. Just a thought. Paul WB8TSL On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 5:24 AM, Graham planoph...@aei.ca wrote: Bob, I would like that information too please and thank you. I have a pair that is working quite well and I also have a second REF-0 that

Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

Hi Bob, I also grabbed some of the KS-24361 pairs and retrieved a lot of information from the mailng list archive. If you have more results from the reverse engineering which was already done, I´d also be very interested. Thanks, Matthias Hi You need to get the Oncore running with the

Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

Hi Ok, I will write something up and post it here. It will probably take a few days to get it all into a form that answers most of the questions. What you will need: 1) A working REF-0 2) A PIC or other micro to get things going 3) A GPS with a PPS output (any will do) 4) Code specific to your

Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone Hi You need to get the Oncore running with the correct position locked in and spitting out the right strings. That’s all done by the CPU in the REF-1 unit. The REF-0 simply grabs the data off

Re: [time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

Bob, I would like that information too please and thank you. I have a pair that is working quite well and I also have a second REF-0 that I want to start testing but just haven't got round to it yet to figure out what is needed. cheers, Graham ve3gtc On 2015-08-07 02:39, Bob Camp wrote:

[time-nuts] KS-24361 REF-0 standalone

Hello Fellows! Had anyone managed to run the KS-24361 REF-0, the one without GPS, as a standalone unit? If so, can you provide some links on how to configure it? The reason to try this is cost. The REF-0 unit costs USD 25 + USD 52.30 (shipping to Brazil) and I have to pay the same amount as