is Z a
scholar?
On Tue, 08 Nov 2005 09:04:11 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
||
What is humorous is
that you use Zodhiates to defeat Zodhiates.
2005 11:47:42 -0700Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Torah Jewish traditions
is Z a scholar?
On Tue, 08 Nov 2005 09:04:11 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
||
What is humorous is that you use Zodhiates to defeat Zodhiates.
true; it's the
theology of thebig advantageunder the influence of the NT
perspective
On Sat, 5 Nov 2005 22:46:19 -0500 "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
a BIG advantage..does not make them any less a
sinner
then the
hair-splitting legalism is intentional--very confusing to your
readers
On Sat, 5 Nov 2005 23:17:49 -0500 "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
..a superficial reading of what I havejustsaid won't
help a whole lot.
n response.
Jd
-Original Message-From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 16:52:23 -0500Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Torah Jewish traditions
JD wrote: Reading Romans 21 without taking into account Paul's message in II Co 9:19-23 and
I can't read this without laughing, David. I'm going to bed.
Jd-Original Message-From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 17:09:09 -0500Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Torah Jewish traditions
JD wrote: Also, please note that the author gives
-Original Message-From: KnpraiseTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 02:38:03 -0500Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Torah Jewish traditions
-Original Message-From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 16:50:01
[Original Message]
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Date: 11/7/2005 4:25:04 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Torah Jewish traditions
cd:
I see them as linked together in both spiritual and phyical-
I agree that the swine was refering to gentiles
Ok. I'm rested up and ready to give this a shot. Comments in bold.-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 03:02:56 -0500Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Torah Jewish traditions
I can't read this without laughing
JD wrote:
You have not read Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon
[on telos ] or you would have encountered my quotation
with the 14th word of his definition
Our editions are either not the same, or you have changed the wording in
your quotation, John. I'm not going to get into this all over
rom: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 11:47:43 -0500Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Torah Jewish traditions
JD wrote: You have not read Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon [on "telos" ] or you would have encountered my quotation with the 14th word of hi
Peace be with you.David Miller.
- Original Message -
From:
ShieldsFamily
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 7:21
AM
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Torah
Jewish traditions
-Original Message-David, I agree completely. But
?
Ill ruminate more upon your post
for sure..
iz
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David
Miller
Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005
9:15 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Torah
Jewish traditions
Izzy, you are misreading me if you
cd:
I see them as linked together in both spiritual and phyical-
I agree that the swine was refering to gentiles-but there is
also a value in the phyical act of not eating pork -
it can kill if not cook complety-the fat content (saturated)
can lead to heart attackes-the parasites that infest
JD wrote:
It is Thayer [on telos] who says In the Grk. writ.
always of the end of some act or state, ... in the
scriptures always of a temporal end. Never ever
assume, David, that when I give a [technical] definition
I speak of my own authority. That never happens.
Well, then, if you
JD wrote:
Reading Romans 21 without taking into account Paul's
message in II Co 9:19-23 and his letter to the Galatians
is to misapply the actions of Acts 21 and to see patterned
authority where none exists.
Check your bogus references. I have no idea what you are trying to say.
JD wrote:
You ignore II Co 9:19-23 as the
reasoning behind my comment.
II Cor. 9:19-23 does not exist in your Bible, so why aren't you ignoring it
too? :-)
Peace be with you.
David Miller.
--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you
JD wrote:
Also, please note that the author gives as his primary
meaning of the two Grk words, telos and telous, with
this definition -- An end, term, termination, completion.
Particularly only in respect to time. I do not see that as
being so very different from the definition of Thayer.
Iz wrote:
Perhaps you need to define Jew and Gentile for me.
Jesus is a Jew, so this can't be a bad or forbidden thing.
No, it is NOT a bad thing. Being a Jew is a very good thing.
Iz wrote:
A Jew could also be defined as someone with Jewish
blood coursing through their veins, or as one of
DAVEH: ROTFLOL.That's a good one, DavidM!:-D
David Miller wrote:
JD wrote:
You ignore II Co 9:19-23 as the
reasoning behind my comment.
II Cor. 9:19-23 does not exist in your Bible, so why aren't you
ignoring it too? :-)
Peace be with you.
David Miller.
--
-Original Message-From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 16:50:01 -0500Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Torah Jewish traditions
JD wrote: It is Thayer [on "telos"] who says "In the Grk. writ. always of the end of so
-From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 16:52:23 -0500Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Torah Jewish traditions
JD wrote: Reading Romans 21 without taking into account Paul's message in II Co 9:19-23 and his letter to the Galatians is to misapply the actions
-Original Message-
David, I agree completely. But you
seem to err on the side of simply brushing aside the material
obedience if one wishes to have spiritual obedience. Do you
believe the shadows of something should be done away with, or
kept, while understanding the deeper
[Original Message]
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Date: 11/5/2005 11:28:55 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Torah Jewish traditions
CD wrote:
Are you stating that the law mentioned are not
removed but more in a static state for the church?
Very
o present "with a view to persuasion." That has been a part of my life for nearly 40 years.So we have a difference of opinion. God will use both opinions to make His will a reality.
JD.
-Original Message-From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSe
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 22:46:19 -0500Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Torah Jewish traditions
Oh, Gary, please stop being so selective in your reading. In regards to sin, the Jew has no advantage because all (both Jew and Gentile) are under sin, but Paul clearly says several ve
You ignore II Co 9:19-23as the reasoning behind my comment.
JD-Original Message-From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 22:51:24 -0500Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Torah Jewish traditions
JD wrote: Advantageous?? Only as it kept doors
From David Miller, we have this rather unusal course of words [ my comments will be the very last entry in this post - I have saved the best for the last, perhaps !!] :
JD wrote: "Telos" is the word translated "end" in Romans 10:4.
The word always means "end of a state [of being] or
an
cd:Typo correction below.
- Original Message -
From: Dean Moore
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 11/4/2005 6:46:35 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Torah Jewish traditions
- Original Message -
From: Terry Clifton
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 11/3/2005 7
- Original Message -
From: Terry Clifton
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 11/4/2005 8:32:06 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Torah Jewish traditions
I think that we are pretty much in agreement, Dean, except for the part about needing a Jewish Catholic priest. I would imagine
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Torah
Jewish traditions
Linda, you are the one who continually separates the
Law into categories.
David -- nice to know that I am on the
right track, on this one.
JD
-Original Message-
From
of the laws regarding personal
integrity/morality, such as dont steal, etc. izzy
- Original Message -
From: Terry
Clifton
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 11/4/2005
8:32:06 AM
Subject: Re:
[TruthTalk] Torah Jewish traditions
I think
obedience'? Yes,
sacrifices continue but are these blood sacrifices as opposed to giving of
self? Thanks bro.
[Original Message]
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Date: 11/4/2005 9:39:16 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Torah Jewish traditions
cd wrote:
Love
Dean Moore wrote:
The Wesleyan church I was preaching at
had sodomites in the congregation that had been there for years and had
become a part of the church-helping with the young and such. When I
preached against sodomy and the God loves everybody( I also preached
on
cd: wellsaid izzy.
- Original Message -
From: ShieldsFamily
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 11/5/2005 8:05:40 AM
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Torah Jewish traditions
Terry, you have always been free to show mercy and pray for the evil, in the OT as well at the NT. Does
cd: I thank God for giving us this same Spirit-to come to this same conclusion :-)
- Original Message -
From: Terry Clifton
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 11/5/2005 8:45:09 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Torah Jewish traditions
Dean Moore wrote:
The Wesleyan church I
traditions
- Original Message -
From: Terry Clifton
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 11/4/2005 8:32:06 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Torah Jewish traditions
I think that we are pretty much in agreement, Dean, except for the part about needing a Jewish Catholic priest. I would
- Original Message -
From:
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 11/5/2005 9:36:20 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Torah Jewish traditions
True we are to help them understand Jesus till the spirits say enough. Ifind nowhere in the bible where we are to invite/bring them
Which sins did you have in mind, JD? iz
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005
8:36 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Torah
Jewish traditions
True we are to help them
I believe that was my question !!
JD-Original Message-From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 13:15:55 -0600Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Torah Jewish traditions
Which sins did you have in mind, JD? iz
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED
JD wrote: The church was never "right" based on its
collective understanding of the Message. David
Miller wrote: Yet, apostle Paul wrote that the church of the
living God is the pillar and ground of the truth (1
Tim. 3:15).JD wrote: It is such because it is the asseembly of
the true
Message -
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 12:28
PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Torah
Jewish traditions
On Thu, 3 Nov 2005 19:23:08 -0500 "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:I
think from [the
JD wrote:
Advantageous?? Only as it kept doors
of communication open.
There's one of those extreme words again (only... never... always).
There are other advantages, with your perspective not even being the primary
one according to Paul. Paul said, much every way (Rom. 3:2) or as one
Izzy wrote:
And David Miller, please explain to me what you
mean when you say we should keep the law spiritually
but not physically. How does one do that???
Don't lie (spiritually), but do it physically? Don't
commit adultery (spiritually), but do it physically?
I'm obviously not getting your
CD wrote:
Are you stating that the law mentioned are not
removed but more in a static state for the church?
Very good, Dean. I don't remember exactly making this point recently, but
yes, this is one way to look at it. The law is not removed, but in regards
to those in the church obtaining
JD wrote:
What other sins demand that we disinvite
the sinner into our assemblies?
Paul mentions a few other sins that qualify in the following passages:
1 Corinthians 5:11
(11) But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is
called a brother be a fornicator, or
- Original Message -
From: Terry Clifton
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 11/3/2005 7:47:56 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Torah Jewish traditions
Leviticus 27:34 The law was given to Moses for the children of Israel. It was never intended for Gentiles. The new testament
instead of throwing rocks at
them.
Terry
Dean Moore wrote:
-
Original Message -
From:
Terry Clifton
To:
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent:
11/3/2005 7:47:56 PM
Subject:
Re: [TruthTalk] Torah Jewish traditions
Leviticus 27:34 The law
Terry, the Church as a whole is ignorant
of the difference between the Ceremonial, the Civil (governmental), and the
Moral Laws of God. The first two were for the Jews, including that which you
refer to below. The Civil Laws were much more merciful than what the pagans
around them did,
Better to accept all of it than to discard all of it. iz
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Miller
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 8:42 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Torah Jewish traditions
JD wrote
On Thu, 3 Nov 2005 19:23:08 -0500 "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:I
think from [the Ap. Paul's] perspective, the freedom to keep Torah as a Jew was
viewed as advantageous
which is far
removed fromthe NT perspective, e.g.:
Circumcision has value if you observe the
law, but if you
I say again, please read Galatians. The answer lies
within.
- Original Message -
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: November 04, 2005 12:28
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Torah
Jewish traditions
On Thu, 3 Nov 2005 19:23:08 -0500
iow, even the Ap.
Paul yielded himself to the NT perspective--he matured
On Fri, 4 Nov 2005 10:28:41 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
On Thu, 3 Nov 2005 19:23:08 -0500 "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:I
think from [the Ap. Paul's] perspective, the freedom to keep Torah as a
Advantageous?? Only as it kept doors of communication open. In time, it was the judaizing church that killed Paul (IMO).
JD-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 10:28:41 -0700Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Torah Jewish traditions
: [TruthTalk] Torah Jewish traditions
Better to accept all of it than to discard all of it. iz
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of David Miller
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 8:42 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Torah
JD wrote:
They continued to offer sacrifice, give attention to their
priests, observe new moons and sabbaths , and the like.
They did not understand that Christ was the end of the
law for righteousness to those who believed.
When you say that they did not understand that Christ was the end of
-Original Message-From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 11:27:32 -0500Subject: [TruthTalk] Torah Jewish traditions
JD wrote: They continued to offer sacrifice, give attention to their priests, observe new moons and sabbaths
David Miller wrote:
Maybe it is you who do not understand what this
New Testament Pharisee meant when he said,
Christ is the end of the law for righteousness
(Romans 10:4).
John wrote:
What do you have in mind?
Well, you had started out by writing:
The church was never right based on its
temporarily, as it
indicates; in a certain context
the Ap. Paul's
subsequent writing, e.g., in Galatians, indicateshis permanent/long term
position on the law which is counter to yours
On Thu, 3 Nov 2005 11:27:32 -0500 "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:||
do you realize that you
It seems to me, David, that Paul observed some of the Jewish traditions
because he wanted to be all things to all people in order to win the
lost. Not because the law any longer required this.
I am a Gentile, adopted into the family, and was never under the law.
I have the freedom to
-Original Message-From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 16:18:34 -0500Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Torah Jewish traditions
David Miller wrote: Maybe it is you who do not understand what this New Testament Pharisee meant when he said
It seems to me, David, that Paul observed some of the Jewish
traditions because he wanted to be all things to all people in order to win
the lost. Not because the law any longer required this.
true, T;right
on relative to below
On Thu, 3 Nov 2005 14:44:57 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
[Original Message]
From: Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Date: 11/3/2005 5:08:39 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Torah Jewish traditions
It seems to me, David, that Paul observed some of the Jewish traditions
because he wanted to be all things to all people
Terry wrote:
It seems to me, David, that Paul observed some of the Jewish traditions
because he wanted to be all things to all people in order to win the lost.
Not because the law any longer required this.
There is no doubt that Paul did not observe Torah in order to be righteous
before God,
Gary wrote:
temporarily, as it indicates; in a certain context
the Ap. Paul's subsequent writing, e.g., in Galatians,
indicates his permanent/long term position on the law
which is counter to yours
What in Galatians would be contrary to my position on the law? I see
nothing in Galatians that
. I have trouble keeping those two.
Terry
Dean Moore wrote:
[Original Message]
From: Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Date: 11/3/2005 5:08:39 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Torah Jewish traditions
It seems to me, David, that Paul observed some
David Miller wrote:
Some jobs are so obnoxious that you would not ask your worst enemy to
do it. You just swallow hard and do it yourself. Better Paul than me.
==
Also consider that he himself circumcised Timothy. Why not let
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