Re: [Vo]:Celani to announce a possible marker of anomalous heat production in LENR

2012-01-07 Thread Horace Heffner
The effect on conductivity of increasing loading of hydrogen in Pd, and its relation to temperature, i.e. the effects of electron fugacity, was discussed on pages 6-9 of: http://www.mtaonline.net/%7Ehheffner/DeflationFusion2.pdf It should not be a surprise to find similar effects in other

RE: [Vo]:Simple, even simple-minded tests can be a great help in understanding these things

2012-01-07 Thread Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint
Yes… after careful consideration, watching your behavior here and other places, and other sources, and numerous attempts to explain to you the purpose of this forum, which you just choose to ignore, that is my conclusion. If you’d care to take an anonymous vote of forum members, I would be happy

Re: [Vo]:Simple, even simple-minded tests can be a great help in understanding these things

2012-01-07 Thread Vorl Bek
I think MY is doing a good job here. If it were not for her, Cude, and a few others, this place would see a frenzy of chicken-counting before the hatching takes place, at least when it comes to Rossi.

Re: [Vo]:Simple, even simple-minded tests can be a great help in understanding these things

2012-01-07 Thread zer tte
Don't you know ? Vortex is the number one place for Rossi Fans. Ooopps, sorry, i thought you we're talking about Valentino. From: Vorl Bek vorl@antichef.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Saturday, January 7, 2012 1:28 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Simple, even

[Vo]:Kiplinger Letter, Jan 6 2012, Topic: ENERGY

2012-01-07 Thread OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson
The first topic of discussion with the conservative oriented, employer friendly Kiplinger News Letter, published Jan 6, 2012, was the topic of Energy. It was fascinating and unusually lengthy discussion on energy, too. I've hi-lighted in red what I thought were some surprising observations:

Re: [Vo]:Kiplinger Letter, Jan 6 2012, Topic: ENERGY

2012-01-07 Thread Jed Rothwell
OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson orionwo...@charter.net wrote: [Personal comment: Obviously, if Rossi related competition claims pan out in the near future, that would initiate a sustained and permanent drop in global oil prices, despite rising world demand. Granted, It may not happen

RE: [Vo]:Simple, even simple-minded tests can be a great help in understanding these things

2012-01-07 Thread Jones Beene
-Original Message- From: Vorl Bek I think MY is doing a good job here. If it were not for her, Cude, and a few others, this place would see a frenzy of chicken-counting before the hatching takes place, at least when it comes to Rossi. Ya' know... Vorl is correct about this, but in a

RE: [Vo]:Simple, even simple-minded tests can be a great help in understanding these things

2012-01-07 Thread OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson
Jed sez: Regarding MY: ... No, I do not see your point. Your comment seems idiotic. Why are you quibbling about this? You can see this is a test. You keep demanding tests. When he does one, you demand it should not be a test but a practical application instead. I think you are arguing for

RE: [Vo]:Simple, even simple-minded tests can be a great help in understanding these things

2012-01-07 Thread francis
[snip] Many of us suspected this all along - that the technology is real but the implementation is ... not just premature, but closer to an abortion. [/snip] I would also put the MAHG in this same category , IMHO the enabling geometry is self destructing in both cases. I don't know if the

Re: [Vo]:Simple, even simple-minded tests can be a great help in understanding these things

2012-01-07 Thread Mary Yugo
On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 9:18 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: -Original Message- There has been way too much chicken-counting here. Yet, since this is an advocacy group - its mission is not to prejudge and chastise - and this situation provide an inherent conflict in

Re: [Vo]:Simple, even simple-minded tests can be a great help in understanding these things

2012-01-07 Thread Mary Yugo
On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 7:26 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: I think you are being silly. Of course I am. I am pointing out that it's also silly to stand in a small room shivering in overcoats in the presence of a machine claimed to make (I forget the claim for that model)

[Vo]:Cooper pairing of protons

2012-01-07 Thread Jones Beene
Cooper pairing is a quantum effect of protons which has been mentioned by Axil and others wrt Rossi. Cooper pairing is possible in all Fermions, not just electrons. This terminology is a bit confusing, and it is too bad we do not have a different name for it with protons - since Leon Cooper did

[Vo]:faster then light

2012-01-07 Thread fznidarsic
I am usually put off when someone mentions going faster than light speed. I think the person who is saying this is misinformed and nieve. Now I have discovered a low energy classical condition that may allow for FTL, but its only a possibility.

[Vo]:The more Rossi writes on his blog, the less credible he becomes

2012-01-07 Thread Mary Yugo
Here is a perfect example of his tangential response style: *Q: I understand that you have been negotiating with Home Depot? Have they seen the Ecat yet? Has it been tested for them? A: We are in discussion with many possible distributors. We will give precise information when any deal will

RE: [Vo]:Simple, even simple-minded tests can be a great help in understanding these things

2012-01-07 Thread Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint
Vorl, RE: frenzied chicken counting... I suggest you go back in the Vortex-l archive to ~Feb 2011, and start reading. This is long *before* MY showed up, and you will find plenty of skepticism from the usual contributors here, including myself. There were postings about Petroldragon, the

Re: [Vo]:The more Rossi writes on his blog, the less credible he becomes

2012-01-07 Thread Rich Murray
Hi Mary Yugo, I've become pretty jaded about CF, and especially Rossi, so have mostly quit following anything except your comments -- I know if anything believable shows up, you'll be right on it... also, spending more time with a 13 year crusade re aspartame (methanol, formaldehyde) toxicity:

Re: [Vo]:Cooper pairing of protons

2012-01-07 Thread James Bowery
On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 12:27 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: In Brian Ahern's work on the Arata effect, which... is NOT the F-P effect So we're witness to not one, but TWO miracles of energy production that just happen to involve hydrogen-metal systems? One miracle is enough to

Re: [Vo]:Simple, even simple-minded tests can be a great help in understanding these things

2012-01-07 Thread Alan Fletcher
No, we count the eggs. If some are hidden then we try to estimate how they are packed in the nest, to estimate the total number. We analyze the photographs to determine their size. We try to determine the species from the size, colour and pattern. From the size we calculate the mass, and

RE: [Vo]:Simple, even simple-minded tests can be a great help in understanding these things

2012-01-07 Thread Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint
That was hilarious Alan, and oh so descriptive of what we do here.. or most of us try to do here! Excellent and amusing analogy... -Mark -Original Message- From: Alan Fletcher [mailto:a...@well.com] Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2012 11:43 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re:

RE: [Vo]:Cooper pairing of protons

2012-01-07 Thread Jones Beene
That is a fair comment from the bleacher section, since superficially using LENR as an umbrella for everything related to hydrogen may make it seem like two miracles. However deuterium is completely different from hydrogen in so many ways that the two can be considered to be completely different

RE: [Vo]:Cooper pairing of protons

2012-01-07 Thread Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint
Jones: Thanks for your diplomatic comments on my late night posting... I will reread and think about them. Trying to up the SNR a notch or two... RE: Cooper pairs... This is one of my pet peeves about the old, simplistic atomic models. We were taught the following in school/college: - opposite

Re: [Vo]:Simple, even simple-minded tests can be a great help in understanding these things

2012-01-07 Thread Eric Walker
Hi everyone! Interesting list, to say the least. I like Mary Yugo's contributions, even if some of you feel that she's trolling or quibbling. I don't agree with some of her conclusions, but more often than not she raises interesting points that are helpful to take into account, making her

RE: [Vo]:Simple, even simple-minded tests can be a great help in understanding these things

2012-01-07 Thread Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint
Welcome Eric, Thx for the feedback… this seems to be your first post. A few questions if I may… 1) How long have you been monitoring this forum before posting? That is not a bad thing; most are a little timid to post until after having monitored the forum for a little while; getting to know

Re: [Vo]:Simple, even simple-minded tests can be a great help in understanding these things

2012-01-07 Thread Jed Rothwell
Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: Rossi is quite clear that his target is to make a million units in calendar year 2012. Defkalion are quite clear about a target for 300,000 larger and more powerful machines in about the same time frame. That is incorrect. Defkalion hopes to build a

Re: [Vo]:Simple, even simple-minded tests can be a great help in understanding these things

2012-01-07 Thread Jed Rothwell
Alan Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: No, we count the eggs. If some are hidden then we try to estimate how they are packed in the nest, to estimate the total number. We analyze the photographs to determine their size. . . . Well said! I hope we can do more, soon. I hope to provide more solid

Re: [Vo]:Simple, even simple-minded tests can be a great help in understanding these things

2012-01-07 Thread Eric Walker
Hi Mark, Thanks for the welcome. Replies inline. On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 1:37 PM, Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net wrote: Welcome Eric, Thx for the feedback… this seems to be your first post. A few questions if I may… 1) How long have you been monitoring this forum

[Vo]:Defkalion posts useful information about nickel

2012-01-07 Thread Jed Rothwell
See: http://www.defkalion-energy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4t=836 Go down several messages, to the one that begins: Every charge of a Hyperion reactor (assuming a single reactor kernel) requires approx 10gr of specially prepared Ni powder . . . Assuming the Ni or Pd in a cold fusion cell does

Re: [Vo]:Kiplinger Letter, Jan 6 2012, Topic: ENERGY

2012-01-07 Thread Alain Sepeda
yes, I made the same analysis. price of oil will get low, those who own reserve will sell them as fast as possible. by the way the prospection won't be affordable anymore, and we will soon forget abour shale oil/gas and deepwater drilling. it is a well known fact in geostrategy, that the cause

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion posts useful information about nickel

2012-01-07 Thread Mary Yugo
On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 2:09 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: See: http://www.defkalion-energy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4t=836 Go down several messages, to the one that begins: Every charge of a Hyperion reactor (assuming a single reactor kernel) requires approx 10gr of

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion posts useful information about nickel

2012-01-07 Thread Jed Rothwell
Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: I am absolutely astounded that anyone really cares about this compared to other possible concerns about this presumed technology or about other wastes in other places. 10 grams of nickel for 6 or more months or providing what? -- a dozen or more kilowatts

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion posts useful information about nickel

2012-01-07 Thread Mary Yugo
On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 2:34 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: No, it is not ridiculous. You are being ridiculous, negative, and silly. Cut the crap. It is a perfectly legitimate question. The information provided by Defkalion on Ni in response to this question is very useful.

RE: [Vo]:Simple, even simple-minded tests can be a great help in understanding these things

2012-01-07 Thread Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint
Thanks for the answers, and welcome aboard! I think 2012 will be a most important turning point… As far as ‘rules’ see: http://amasci.com/weird/wvort.html#rules Bill Beaty http://amasci.com/billb.html is the list founder and appreciates any contributions to help pay for keeping

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion posts useful information about nickel

2012-01-07 Thread Jed Rothwell
Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: Does anyone seriously think that in the foreseeable future, the limiting feature of making energy by nickel-hydrogen fusion is going to be the supply of nickel? No, we do not think that, because we understand something about the reaction. Again, you are

RE: [Vo]:Defkalion posts useful information about nickel

2012-01-07 Thread Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint
How much Ni is used in a AA size NiCad battery In the battery recycling Wikipedia page, it has a table which shows that a NiCad is 22% Ni, and NiMH is 35% (I assume by mass?). What's an AA weigh, a few tens of grams? 100g? -m From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com] Sent:

RE: [Vo]:Defkalion posts useful information about nickel

2012-01-07 Thread Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint
Global Ni use/production was discussed many months ago here, but I think it's a little over a million pounds/year.. no, I think it was a million+ tons/year! Someone also calc'd that it would take about 25% of that to supply domestic e-cats globally... obviously a LOT of wiggle-room on those

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion posts useful information about nickel

2012-01-07 Thread Jed Rothwell
Here is something I added to the discussion at Defkalion: In the information you copied from INSG.org, they noted there may be Ni on the sea floor. It is also fairly abundant in sea water, at 480 ng/kg. That is a lot more than Zr, Ti, Au or Pd, for example. (These elements have been used in cold

Re: [Vo]:Cooper pairing of protons

2012-01-07 Thread James Bowery
On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 2:52 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: In short, forget the bogus two miracle argument. Sure I'll forget the bogus two miracle argument -- especially since I never encountered it. As for the valid two miracle argument, its not going to go away simply because

RE: [Vo]:Cooper pairing of protons

2012-01-07 Thread Jones Beene
From: James Bowery * Tell me I'm wrong. Yes, James, you are wrong. Not just wrong but possibly wrong for several reasons, depending on semantics and your writing skills. First off, are you a native English speaker? We are very tolerant of differences in languages and translations of

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion posts useful information about nickel

2012-01-07 Thread Mary Yugo
On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 3:06 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: The first thing they asked about the Fleischmann-Pons experiments was: Is there enough palladium to do this? Fleischmann answered: No, there isn't. He said that at MIT and many other places. I think he was right, as I

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion posts useful information about nickel

2012-01-07 Thread Jed Rothwell
Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: I can't guarantee what a typical law maker or influential industrialist would ask first but I bet most of the thrust would be on does it work, has it been independently tested, and how do we know the huge claims are valid? And even if they ask about the

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion posts useful information about nickel

2012-01-07 Thread Mary Yugo
On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 6:40 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: I can't guarantee what a typical law maker or influential industrialist would ask first but I bet most of the thrust would be on does it work, has it been independently tested, and

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion posts useful information about nickel

2012-01-07 Thread Terry Blanton
On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 9:53 PM, Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: Oh yes, because I am so far off the mark.  Why don't you get upset with Defkalion and Rossi for jerking the entire world along with their unsupported claims, unconfirmed customers, unproven, unpatented, and uncertain

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion posts useful information about nickel

2012-01-07 Thread Terry Blanton
On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 10:50 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: Andrea Rossi has a patent in Italy which is enforceable in the entire EU. No. 0001387256 T

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion posts useful information about nickel

2012-01-07 Thread Terry Blanton
On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 10:59 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: Andrea Rossi has a patent in Italy which is enforceable in the entire EU. No. 0001387256 Of course, one must have the funds to defend any patent. Enforcement is the burden of the patent holder. T

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion posts useful information about nickel

2012-01-07 Thread Harry Veeder
On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 11:00 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 10:59 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: Andrea Rossi has a patent in Italy which is enforceable in the entire EU. No. 0001387256 Of course, one must have the funds to defend any patent.  

Re: [Vo]:Cooper pairing of protons

2012-01-07 Thread James Bowery
On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 7:42 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: You say: D+D = He4 reaction involves two pairs of fermions and even accuse me of 'forgetting' something. Where are these two pairs fermions of which you speak ? What did I forget? Where are two pairs of anything? Two

RE: [Vo]:Defkalion posts useful information about nickel

2012-01-07 Thread OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson
Regarding MY, Jed sez: Okay, that's it! I am sick of your useless, gratuitous, snide comments. You add nothing to the discussion saying that kind of thing. I am adding you to my auto-delete file.  You are a tiresome jerk. Go away. I suppose I should say, Shoot! There goes my evening

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion posts useful information about nickel

2012-01-07 Thread Mary Yugo
On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 7:59 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 10:50 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: Andrea Rossi has a patent in Italy which is enforceable in the entire EU. No. 0001387256 Rossi's patent is essentially worthless because it

Re: [Vo]:Cooper pairing of protons

2012-01-07 Thread Axil Axil
Where N can be 1 to very many, N identical waves are said to be coherent. These many waves have the same waveform; they are all in fact the same wave. Since particles are matter waves, N particles that are identical and indistinguishable are coherent. These matter waves can be made identical by