Hoi,
As it is the current talk pages are horrible. You gloss over this fact
because you are so fired up about the potential of "end users can
build new features and flows on top of it, without the need to request
the platform
developers to build support for them". Then you attack flow because some
> These are just assertions, however. I liked your earlier comments
> because they are testable against the architecture (even if the
> current implementation, early as it is, will fail many of these
> tests). What real world needs cannot be met by a comment-centric
> architecture for .. commenting
Hi Yann, most of the issues you're describing sound like straight-up bugs.
When it comes to Android, it helps to know about issues that affect
some models but may not come up on the model/version that the
developer is using for testing. I think it's safe to say that the S4
is a '''must work''' And
Tim, I read that a bit differently.
"Flow is an *experimental* but already feature
rich alternative..."
"We will aim to cover one major set of new deployments per quarter,
*carefully picking use cases*."
This looks to me like the kind of incremental rollout that is appropriate.
The idea of users
On Sun, Sep 7, 2014 at 12:18 PM, Romaine Wiki wrote:
> 2014-09-06 1:07 GMT+02:00 Steven Walling :
>
>> On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 1:48 PM, John Mark Vandenberg
>> wrote:
>>
>> > IMO the WMF should stop focusing on English Wikipedia as a target
>> > deploy site, and stop allowing its product managemen
Erik Möller wrote:
>> It's [Flow is] a system in early development, and has never been
advertised as anything else.
==
*This statement is simply not true.*
See the WMF's 2014-15 annual plan:
https://archive.org/details/WikimediaFoundation2014-15AnnualPlan
Page 20 (DIRECT QUOTE FOLLOWS):
*
On Sat, Sep 6, 2014 at 10:27 PM, Keegan Peterzell
wrote:
> ..last July...
>
July 2013, for clarity.
--
Keegan Peterzell
Community Liaison, Product
Wikimedia Foundation
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On Sat, Sep 6, 2014 at 10:03 PM, Pine W wrote:
> rik, I appreciate your engaging with this *early* enough for design
> decisions to be adjusted before Flow gets to major rollouts.
>
> Romaine, if the Dutch uses of features like templates are not being taken
> into account in how features are desi
rik, I appreciate your engaging with this *early* enough for design
decisions to be adjusted before Flow gets to major rollouts.
Romaine, if the Dutch uses of features like templates are not being taken
into account in how features are designed, I suggest contacting the
Engineering community liais
Today the Society of Professional Journalists updated its Code of
Ethics in two ways pertinent to wikimedians and Wikimedia projects:
1. The term "journalist" has been replaced with references to
"journalism" in areas that were seen to perpetuate the idea that the
practice of journalism requires o
2014-09-06 1:07 GMT+02:00 Steven Walling :
> On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 1:48 PM, John Mark Vandenberg
> wrote:
>
> > IMO the WMF should stop focusing on English Wikipedia as a target
> > deploy site, and stop allowing its product management team and WMF
> > staff in general to be salesman for it - it
I'm not going to reply in-line here, because I think there's been an
undoubtedly unintentional missing of the point here. Instead I will tell a
story about a friend of mine.
Some years ago, when her children were 3 and 4, their family had a lovely
traditional Christmas Day, but something felt lik
On Sat, Sep 6, 2014 at 4:15 PM, Dan Garry wrote:
> There is one notable exception to the above, which is talk page header
> templates. One expects updates to a template used as a talk page header to
> update every page the template is currently transcluded on, which is not
> happening presently. {
2014-09-07 0:33 GMT+02:00 Erik Moeller :
> On Sat, Sep 6, 2014 at 2:14 PM, Romaine Wiki
> wrote:
>
> > I am an admin on Commons, and I regularly have to remove an image on a
> talk
> > page because it is for example a violation of copyright. I see no way to
> > remove the copyright violation from
Arbitration report: ''Media viewer'' case is suspended
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2014-09-03/Arbitration_report
Featured content: 1882 Ã 5 in gold, and thruppence more
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2014-09-03/Featured_content
Op-ed: Auto
On 6 September 2014 15:33, Erik Moeller wrote:
>
> Flow doesn't automatically update template output -- it retains the
> output as it was when the user posted the comment. We can argue
> whether that's good or bad behavior, but it's worth doing so in the
> context of real examples. When would this
Hi,
I forgot to mention that we use a lot of template messages on talk pages to
inform users about something. In a part of these templates we automatically
add categories because we want to track the users who have problematic
behaviour. Testing this by adding a category to a message in Flow gives
On Sat, Sep 6, 2014 at 2:14 PM, Romaine Wiki wrote:
> I am an admin on Commons, and I regularly have to remove an image on a talk
> page because it is for example a violation of copyright. I see no way to
> remove the copyright violation from the message.
>
> Another thing I tried is the removal
On 06.09.2014 23:14, Romaine Wiki wrote:
Hello all,
I did a couple if simple tests on MediaWiki on Flow pages with often
occurring edits. The tests failed.
...
So, there is flow, and instead of the community can work with it as it
needs to work with, it does not flow but got stuck...
To ans
On Sat, Sep 6, 2014 at 8:03 AM, Todd Allen wrote:
> Erik,
> One huge thing is that article talk pages are not only for discussions, but
> also for metadata (article assessments, history, Wikiproject data, as
> examples from the English Wikipedia). The top of the talk page also, on
> many pages, se
Hello all,
I did a couple if simple tests on MediaWiki on Flow pages with often
occurring edits. The tests failed.
I am an admin on Commons, and I regularly have to remove an image on a talk
page because it is for example a violation of copyright. I see no way to
remove the copyright violation fr
Hi,
I am not a mobile user. So for the first time, I used the Mobile App
on a Samsung S4 to upload a few pictures. I am quite disappointed, to
say the least. I stopped counting how many times the application
crashed while uploading just a few pictures. Then in reviewing my
uploads, I can't see the
(The self-service suggestion and the opinions below are mine, posted here
with the best of my community intentions.)
Hi Yaroslav,
On Saturday, September 6, 2014, Yaroslav M. Blanter > wrote:
> actually, this is exactly what is happening now and this is what caused
> this turmoil yesterday night.
Congratulations to Wikimedia Belgium!
User: Nhasive | @nhasive
Sysop, Bengali Wikipedia
Member, IEG, WMF
On Saturday, September 6, 2014, Tonmoy Khan wrote:
> Congratulations to Wikimedia Belgium and everyone involved.
>
> Ali Haidar Khan
> FDC Member
> Treasurer, Wikimedia Bangladesh
> On Sep
On 09/06/2014 01:12 PM, Todd Allen wrote:
> But dismissing them by setting up a (rather
> ridiculous) straw man is not helpful.
I *wish* it was a strawman. How else would you qualify:
"And sadly we have enough users around who try to contribute content
without having time to go through "the rite
On 06.09.2014 19:18, Gerard Meijssen wrote:
Hoi,
The subject is discussion / talk space not article space editing..
Yaroslav
please stay on topic..Surely Marc has more than 13 edits in all kinds
of
discussion on multiple wikis.
Thanks,
GerardM
On 6 September 2014 19:14, Yaroslav M. Bl
Hoi,
The subject is discussion / talk space not article space editing.. Yaroslav
please stay on topic..Surely Marc has more than 13 edits in all kinds of
discussion on multiple wikis.
Thanks,
GerardM
On 6 September 2014 19:14, Yaroslav M. Blanter wrote:
> On 06.09.2014 19:06, Marc A. Pel
On 06.09.2014 19:06, Marc A. Pelletier wrote:
On 09/06/2014 12:34 PM, Isarra Yos wrote:
Sadly, there *are* people who get offended that the vast unwashed
masses
could start contributing to *their* project without having gone
through
a painful, demanding rite of passage. Truth is, most peopl
Marc,
Wanting to "keep the newbies away" is hardly a common reason for people's
opposition to Flow. Someone might've said such a thing, but to paint that
as the reason for opposition for even a significant minority is totally
inaccurate.
You can, of course, say that all the other reasons given ar
On 06/09/14 17:06, Marc A. Pelletier wrote:
On 09/06/2014 12:34 PM, Isarra Yos wrote:
if the designers do not even understand the basic principles behind a
wiki, how can what is developed possibly suit our needs?
You're starting from the presumption that, for some unexplained reason,
collaborat
On 09/06/2014 12:34 PM, Isarra Yos wrote:
> if the designers do not even understand the basic principles behind a
> wiki, how can what is developed possibly suit our needs?
You're starting from the presumption that, for some unexplained reason,
collaborative discussion benefits from being a wiki (
On 06/09/14 07:41, Erik Moeller wrote:
On Sat, Sep 6, 2014 at 12:23 AM, Isarra Yos wrote:
Why in the world would posts not be editable? I've never used a platform
where discussion was important in which users couldn't at least edit their
own posts (along with mods) where the lack of such wasn'
Since we already know two of the changes that will come from Flow, the end of
signature personalisation and only three levels of talk indentation; Surely it
makes sense for the WMF to put those to the community now and see if it can win
consensus for those two changes?
On a less contentious not
Erik,
I think a lot of reasons for the "document mode" commenting system got
missed. But there are very good reasons we must retain that.
One huge thing is that article talk pages are not only for discussions, but
also for metadata (article assessments, history, Wikiproject data, as
examples from
Hoi,
The lack of usability that is inherent in the current tools is enough to
drive me away from editing Wikipedia. At to this the atmosphere that is all
too often just not interested in anything but vested interests and you have
a cocktail that is powerful enough to have me respond to your challen
Congratulations to Wikimedia Belgium and everyone involved.
Ali Haidar Khan
FDC Member
Treasurer, Wikimedia Bangladesh
On Sep 6, 2014 11:28 AM, "Balázs Viczián"
wrote:
> Congrats from Wikimedia Hungary!
>
> Balázs
> 2014.09.02. 19:46, "Carlos M. Colina" ezt írta:
>
> > Dear all,
> >
> > It is
On Sat, Sep 6, 2014 at 6:49 AM, Erik Moeller wrote:
> Hi all,
>
>
>
> Sincerely,
> Erik
>
> [1]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikipedia-l/2003-July/011069.html
> [2]
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=LiquidThreads&oldid=100760
> [3] https://translatewiki.net/wiki/Support
>
Quim Gil wrote:
> Potential requirements to join the Flow self-service:
>
> * At least one tech ambassador volunteering to act as contact between the
> project and the Flow team, summarizing community feedback in the channels
> agreed (mw:Talk:Flow, etc).
> * Community agreement after a public d
On 06.09.2014 13:39, Quim Gil wrote:
On Saturday, September 6, 2014, Erik Moeller
wrote:
So we think a
support forum like the Teahouse, and its equivalent in other
languages
may be a good place to start -- provided the hosts agree that there
are no dealbreaker issues for them.
What about
Refer to the signature Erik used. The rationale that employees when acting
as employees somehow are to be wearing a hat of an unpaid volunteer was
worn out when superprotect was invented.
On 6 Sep 2014 14:22, "Magnus Manske" wrote:
> On Sat, Sep 6, 2014 at 9:50 AM, Fæ wrote:
>
> > On 6 September
On Sat, Sep 6, 2014 at 9:50 AM, Fæ wrote:
> On 6 September 2014 07:11, Gerard Meijssen
> wrote:
> > Hoi,
> > "We" includes anyone who wants to be involved and does not exclude him or
> > herself by his or her own actions or choices.
> > Thanks,
> > GerardM
>
> Incorrect.
>
> Erik's email inc
Hi,
That seems a sensible plan. I am thinking of the help desk on Commons
(in English or in another language) as a good testbed.
Regards,
Yann
2014-09-06 17:09 GMT+05:30 Quim Gil :
> On Saturday, September 6, 2014, Erik Moeller wrote:
>
>> So we think a
>> support forum like the Teahouse, and
On 6 September 2014 05:49, Erik Moeller wrote:
> Fundamentally, there's one key question to answer for talk pages in
> Wikimedia projects: Do we want discussions to occur in document mode,
> or in a structured comment mode?
I rather think the more fundamental question is (for any software
soluti
Wil Sinclair wrote:
>>I think there is a lot of value and promise in Flow. But it is a huge paradigm
shift for onwiki communication, and it must not surprise users under any
circumstances. Maybe someone has the right figure handy, but I wouldn't be
surprised if, after archives are added up, there
On Saturday, September 6, 2014, Erik Moeller wrote:
> So we think a
> support forum like the Teahouse, and its equivalent in other languages
> may be a good place to start -- provided the hosts agree that there
> are no dealbreaker issues for them.
What about setting up some kind of Flow self-s
Erik - how confident are you that you're coming up with something that
the present users of talk pages - people actually trying to get work
done on articles - will love? Not just barely tolerate - what are you
bringing us?
- d.
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Where does the idea that user interface changes to the system which
has already produced the most monumental reference work in the history
of humanity are going to help with its only actual problem, that
people aren't sufficiently inclined to stick around and maintain it?
If there was any evidence
On 6 September 2014 07:11, Gerard Meijssen wrote:
> Hoi,
> "We" includes anyone who wants to be involved and does not exclude him or
> herself by his or her own actions or choices.
> Thanks,
> GerardM
Incorrect.
Erik's email includes phrases like "We're not pushing an aggressive
schedule on
On 06/09/2014, Isarra Yos wrote:
> Be like 4chan! Everyone loves 4chan.
No.
This is so wrong it hurts.
Fae
--
fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
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On Sat, Sep 6, 2014 at 12:23 AM, Isarra Yos wrote:
> Have the successes and failures of the existing approaches and tools been
> considered? Are things LQT got right present in Flow?
Some, yes (remember Andrew and Brandon have worked on both LQT and
Flow) -- in other cases the team deliberately m
Hi all,
ten years ago this Sunday, Wikimedia Commons went online. We've sent out
the below press release to draw some attention to this occasion, and also
published a separate blog post by Lila which goes a bit more into the
project's history (such as the very first photograph uploaded to Commons)
On 06/09/14 06:13, Erik Moeller wrote:
On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 10:42 PM, Risker wrote:
The major deficiencies that have long been identified in the current
discussion system (and that can be addressed by technology) are all able to
be addressed in MediaWiki software or by extensions. Automatic s
Hoi,
I have used LiquidThreads and the current talk pages for too long. I prefer
LiquidThreads ANY day warts and all over the talk pages.
Ok this discussion is about automated discussion environments and lets keep
to that subject. As you may know, translatewiki.net uses LQT. It is
therefore quite
On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 11:41 PM, Pine W wrote:
> Something that that would be useful is a video demonstration of Flow in
> action.
That could be handy, Pine. But sometimes you can't demonstrate all
benefits yet, because they don't even exist in the implementation yet
-- only in the foundations of
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