date:20151031

WereSpielChequers,

I talked about that in the thread, if WLM and WLE would be closer (some
countries are) to communities WP, Commons,...  the result would be better.
" I would like to see Wikimedia Commons volunteers be involved in the
process, to create more clear, précised, and aligned rules for the contest,
otherwise they will use Commons as a uploader" same for WP. This
communities, directly impacted by this contests should develop the metrics,
not the ones requesting money.

How this projects will help WP/Commons if they are not listening the
communities? They probably are creating more problem than solutions.

This talk is about that:
https://www.ted.com/talks/ernesto_sirolli_want_to_help_someone_shut_up_and_listen?language=en



On 31 October 2015 at 18:57, WereSpielChequers 
wrote:

> Maybe it is time to reconsider some of our standard metrics for wiki loves
> monuments.
>
> One of the big gains in several countries has been to get a list of
> monuments into Wikipedia maybe in future direct into wikidata. I think that
> the standard metrics should reflect that, OK it is metadata, but our
> metrics should put more value on the metadata we achieve.
>
> Sometimes wiki loves monuments gives us lots more images of something we
> already have reasonable pictures of. Sometimes it gives us images of
> notable monuments that we don't yet have articles about. Or it gives us
> interior shots of a building that already have a featured photo of the
> exterior.
>
> I suggest we think of three metrics here:
> How many monuments have we gone from no images to images?
> How many monuments do we have better quality images for?
> How many monuments do we have images for more of their features?
>
> Number of images used is an over hasty metric, perhaps five years after
> the contest we could measure this and get a very different statistic.
> Sometimes we need much more patience to see how wikipedians will use
> materials over time. This is likely to be especially true in countries
> where we don't currently have much coverage in terms of articles.
>
> Another way to tell the story is to give us examples of gaps that we have
> filled. For example, the article on *** church explained that it was
> listed as a national monument because of the quality of the frescos inside
> it, as a result of WLM we now have photos of those frescos available for
> the article.
>
>
>
> 
> >
> >
> > Message: 5
> > Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2015 16:23:45 -0200
> > From: Rodrigo Padula 
> > To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
> > Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Enc: Re:  WLM Brasil 2015 - Winners / Numbers
> > Message-ID:
> ><150bf24187a.1270e0110548608.5396703623173748...@wikimedia.org.br>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> >
> > I see a lot of good results and contributions here and as pointed by
> Ilario, we reached great part of our measures of success
> >
> > WLM 2015
> > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Campaign:wlm-br
> > - 4.453 photos
> > - 411 uploaders
> > - 325 new users registered on commons
> >
> > WLM 2014+2015
> > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Campaign:wle-br
> > - 20 095 photos
> > - 2866 uploaders
> > - 2727 new users registered on commons
> >
> > Only to complete, the first place on WLE 2014 was elected the second
> place on the WLE 2014 International and that same picture was selected in
> 7# place during the picture of the year on commons.
> >
> > Now in 2015 we have more pictures selected in the WLE international
> contest.
> >
> > Including all the media coverage and all impact on social media, for a
> small User Group approved in 2015, it's huge!!!
> >
> > Rodrigo Padula
> > Coordenador de Projetos
> > Grupo Wikimedia Brasileiro de Educação e Pesquisa
> > http://www.wikimedia.org.br
> > 21 99326-0558
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  Em Sáb, 31 Out 2015 15:43:49 -0200 Ilario
> Valdelli escreveu 
> >
> > Again, and again.
> >
> > "Success for whom"?
> >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:PEG/Wikimedia_Community_Brazilian_Group_of_Education_and_Research/Wiki_Loves_Earth_Brasil_2015#Measures_of_success
> >
> > The section "measure of success" reports:
> >
> > at least 400 participants uploading one photograph or more;
> > at least 5,000 photos uploaded;
> > at least 15% of photos used on Wikipedia;
> > at least 50% of new users engagement during the contest;
> > at least 10 new articles about natural heritage sites in Brasil;
> > at least 10% of new user retention after 2 months of the contest.
> >
> > Rodrigo reports:
> >
> > Pictures uploaded: 4.443
> > Uploaders: 411
> > New users registered on Commons: 325
> > New users engagement: 79%
> > Pictures user on Wikipedia: 86 (2%)
> >
> >
> > Are the goals reached? Basically yes. When the project has been financed
> > it was clear that the definition "success" was based on those measures.
> >
> > There is no success for a specific person on an individual and personal
> > criteria.
> >
> > The user group of Brazil has not asked nothing speci

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Rodrigo versus Rodrigo (was Re: WLM Brasil 2015 - Winners / Numbers)

555 I just showed the thread, not your specific email. This is not about
me, so why my name is there?
"doing almost nothing on online projects or even on outreach activities. "
>  https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Rodrigo.Argenton.
ops

"there is no need to demonize R-Padula"

the main word here is "need"...

"I'm not fighting against anybody here"

Just flooding me by emails and SMS, probably with insults I just saw
capital letters.

" I proposed to do during and after the Brazilian Catalyst Program!" "do"?
HEHEHEHEHEHEHHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHE


555 I didn't know that you rather prefer Padula's posture, but nice defence
that you created, ad hominem to diminish me (totally equivocated, you
forget to say a list of really bad things, and made a wrong affirmation
saying that I'm not active on online), then you remove the culpability of
Padula's Burn Money Festival, and deviated the attention to the problem and
transformed in stage for baby talk...

"which should be probably discussed in another place."

Illario, every thread, every thread that appears this problem that AffCom +
WMF created, you request to we stop talking here, and go somewhere else.
Where? Where we could talk to the Wikimedia Movement, including AffCom,
WMF, international community? Meta? Because there AffCom did not answer, we
are expecting a "Why WMBR was not approved" since 2013...

How about you stop trying to shut people up and start giving serious answers
?


On 31 October 2015 at 18:13, Luiz Augusto  wrote:

> On Sat, Oct 31, 2015 at 1:15 PM, Rodrigo Tetsuo Argenton <
> rodrigo.argen...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > (...)
> >
> > [5]some samples of local community interacting with Padula's "ideas":
> >
> >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Brazilian_Group_of_Education_and_Research/User_Group_Proposal
> > https://br.wikimedia.org/wiki/Usu%C3%A1rio_Discuss%C3%A3o:Rodrigo_Padula
> > follow the thread:
> >
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediabr-l/2014-August/015754.html
> >
> >
> Since R-Argenton provided some messages written by me in public opposition
> against R-Padula in the past year, let's me write few lines updating the
> subject.
>
> R-Padula acted in many disruptive ways in a very complex Game of Thrones
> WMF edition that ended in project results and partial lost of community
> interest. Emphasis on partial. I'll explain it in another point of this
> message. Let's say that R-Padula is our local Petyr Baelish.
>
> R-Argenton for years is behind brazilian volunteers most of time on yet
> more disruptive ways plus doing almost nothing on online projects or even
> on outreach activities. Argenton may replies to it as "because I'm
> blocked!" and I leaves to those who may be interested to think for the
> reasons a community will choose to block a very experienced contributor.
>
> Please don't read this as I advocating for Padula. Quite the opposite, I'm
> only suggesting to ignore the bad mood from Argenton and really focus on
> measurements and governance points proposed by Fæ.
>
> Time to write few lines about the "partial lost of community interest"
> point.
>
> The now defunct Programa Catalisador do Brasil revealed the bad side of
> some people (R-Argenton excluded from this, at least) and created a very
> interesting GoT WMF remix that ended in many political fights exactly as on
> the HBO series. But the community members where all benevolent zombies,
> sometimes attending events, but most of time doing nothing. Nothing at all.
>
> I personally leaved any attempt to do 'real-world' things after the renew
> of Wikimedia Community User Group Brasil (not to be confused with the UG
> that R-Padula is the leader). As far I can see, the last action of that UG
> was to get renewed and eventually being present on Wikimania... Well, I
> *really* don't want to say any more on this UG.
>
> My current involvement to WMF is only to do random things on Wikisource and
> Wikidata as I can do random things on any website, without further
> interest. Not only due to the GoT WMF.br remixed edition, but also for many
> issues on a more global level (WMF is constantly contracting new staff and
> their servers are most unstable than back in 2004-2005... Only in sake of
> example, since there are REALLY many issues, T71311
> , a huge data loss, is still
> unsolved most due to the laziness of the involved staff while in any normal
> entity it may result in an entire team working until solve it... should I
> do anything on governance issues related to resources allocated to Brazil
> while in the meantime the WMF is doing anything on their own governance,
> only spending money on fees until gets bankrupt and with all data lost
> forever in a huge bug not so hypothetical as many of you think? Not ever).
> So, please, don't refer anymore to any past message written by me,
> R-Argenton and any other portuguese-speaking person.
>
> If the money collected by the WMF is bad s

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WLM Brasil 2015 - Winners / Numbers

2015-10-31 Thread WereSpielChequers

Maybe it is time to reconsider some of our standard metrics for wiki loves 
monuments. 

One of the big gains in several countries has been to get a list of monuments 
into Wikipedia maybe in future direct into wikidata. I think that the standard 
metrics should reflect that, OK it is metadata, but our metrics should put more 
value on the metadata we achieve.

Sometimes wiki loves monuments gives us lots more images of something we 
already have reasonable pictures of. Sometimes it gives us images of notable 
monuments that we don't yet have articles about. Or it gives us interior shots 
of a building that already have a featured photo of the exterior.

I suggest we think of three metrics here:
How many monuments have we gone from no images to images?
How many monuments do we have better quality images for?
How many monuments do we have images for more of their features?

Number of images used is an over hasty metric, perhaps five years after the 
contest we could measure this and get a very different statistic. Sometimes we 
need much more patience to see how wikipedians will use materials over time. 
This is likely to be especially true in countries where we don't currently have 
much coverage in terms of articles.

Another way to tell the story is to give us examples of gaps that we have 
filled. For example, the article on *** church explained that it was listed 
as a national monument because of the quality of the frescos inside it, as a 
result of WLM we now have photos of those frescos available for the article.




> 
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2015 16:23:45 -0200
> From: Rodrigo Padula 
> To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
> Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Enc: Re:  WLM Brasil 2015 - Winners / Numbers
> Message-ID:
><150bf24187a.1270e0110548608.5396703623173748...@wikimedia.org.br>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> 
> I see a lot of good results and contributions here and as pointed by Ilario, 
> we reached great part of our measures of success 
> 
> WLM 2015
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Campaign:wlm-br  
> - 4.453 photos
> - 411 uploaders
> - 325 new users registered on commons 
> 
> WLM 2014+2015
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Campaign:wle-br 
> - 20 095 photos
> - 2866 uploaders
> - 2727 new users registered on commons
> 
> Only to complete, the first place on WLE 2014 was elected the second place on 
> the WLE 2014 International and that same picture was selected in 7# place 
> during the picture of the year on commons.
> 
> Now in 2015 we have more pictures selected in the WLE international contest.
> 
> Including all the media coverage and all impact on social media, for a small 
> User Group approved in 2015, it's huge!!!
> 
> Rodrigo Padula
> Coordenador de Projetos
> Grupo Wikimedia Brasileiro de Educação e Pesquisa
> http://www.wikimedia.org.br
> 21 99326-0558
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Em Sáb, 31 Out 2015 15:43:49 -0200 Ilario 
> Valdelli escreveu  
> 
> Again, and again.
> 
> "Success for whom"?
> 
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:PEG/Wikimedia_Community_Brazilian_Group_of_Education_and_Research/Wiki_Loves_Earth_Brasil_2015#Measures_of_success
> 
> The section "measure of success" reports:
> 
> at least 400 participants uploading one photograph or more;
> at least 5,000 photos uploaded;
> at least 15% of photos used on Wikipedia;
> at least 50% of new users engagement during the contest;
> at least 10 new articles about natural heritage sites in Brasil;
> at least 10% of new user retention after 2 months of the contest.
> 
> Rodrigo reports:
> 
> Pictures uploaded: 4.443
> Uploaders: 411
> New users registered on Commons: 325
> New users engagement: 79%
> Pictures user on Wikipedia: 86 (2%)
> 
> 
> Are the goals reached? Basically yes. When the project has been financed 
> it was clear that the definition "success" was based on those measures.
> 
> There is no success for a specific person on an individual and personal 
> criteria.
> 
> The user group of Brazil has not asked nothing special, this is a normal 
> budget for any WLM or WLE in several countries.
> 

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Rodrigo versus Rodrigo (was Re: WLM Brasil 2015 - Winners / Numbers)


On 31.10.2015 21:13, Luiz Augusto wrote:

On Sat, Oct 31, 2015 at 1:15 PM, Rodrigo Tetsuo Argenton <
rodrigo.argen...@gmail.com> wrote:


(...)

[5]some samples of local community interacting with Padula's "ideas":


https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Brazilian_Group_of_Education_and_Research/User_Group_Proposal
https://br.wikimedia.org/wiki/Usu%C3%A1rio_Discuss%C3%A3o:Rodrigo_Padula
follow the thread:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediabr-l/2014-August/015754.html




Please don't read this as I advocating for Padula. Quite the opposite, I'm
only suggesting to ignore the bad mood from Argenton and really focus on
measurements and governance points proposed by Fæ.




In your email you are making confusion between measures/governance and 
strategy.


The governance is focused to check that the strategy is applied well, 
the governance is not strategy itself.


For the PEG Padula has realized its project and reached the goals.

This result cannot be combined with a discussion of the conflicts 
happening in the Brazilian community, which should be probably discussed 
in another place.


Kind regards

--
Ilario Valdelli
Wikimedia CH
Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre
Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera
Switzerland - 8008 Zürich
Tel: +41764821371
http://www.wikimedia.ch


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[Wikimedia-l] Enc: Rodrigo versus Rodrigo (was Re: WLM Brasil 2015 - Winners / Numbers)

I'm not fighting against anybody here, I'm just defending myself and moving 
forward keeping my ideas and our projects running as I proposed to do during 
and after the Brazilian Catalyst Program!

As a good Petyr Baelish, I'm just trying to keep my head connected to my neck 
:-)

Best regards, good to see you around :-)

Rodrigo Padula
Coordenador de Projetos
Grupo Wikimedia Brasileiro de Educação e Pesquisa
http://www.wikimedia.org.br
21 99326-0558

 Em Sáb, 31 Out 2015 18:13:23 -0200 Luiz Augusto 
escreveu  

On Sat, Oct 31, 2015 at 1:15 PM, Rodrigo Tetsuo Argenton <
rodrigo.argen...@gmail.com> wrote:

> (...)
>
> [5]some samples of local community interacting with Padula's "ideas":
>
>
> 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Brazilian_Group_of_Education_and_Research/User_Group_Proposal
> https://br.wikimedia.org/wiki/Usu%C3%A1rio_Discuss%C3%A3o:Rodrigo_Padula
> follow the thread:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediabr-l/2014-August/015754.html
>
>
Since R-Argenton provided some messages written by me in public opposition
against R-Padula in the past year, let's me write few lines updating the
subject.

R-Padula acted in many disruptive ways in a very complex Game of Thrones
WMF edition that ended in project results and partial lost of community
interest. Emphasis on partial. I'll explain it in another point of this
message. Let's say that R-Padula is our local Petyr Baelish.

R-Argenton for years is behind brazilian volunteers most of time on yet
more disruptive ways plus doing almost nothing on online projects or even
on outreach activities. Argenton may replies to it as "because I'm
blocked!" and I leaves to those who may be interested to think for the
reasons a community will choose to block a very experienced contributor.

Please don't read this as I advocating for Padula. Quite the opposite, I'm
only suggesting to ignore the bad mood from Argenton and really focus on
measurements and governance points proposed by Fæ.

Time to write few lines about the "partial lost of community interest"
point.

The now defunct Programa Catalisador do Brasil revealed the bad side of
some people (R-Argenton excluded from this, at least) and created a very
interesting GoT WMF remix that ended in many political fights exactly as on
the HBO series. But the community members where all benevolent zombies,
sometimes attending events, but most of time doing nothing. Nothing at all.

I personally leaved any attempt to do 'real-world' things after the renew
of Wikimedia Community User Group Brasil (not to be confused with the UG
that R-Padula is the leader). As far I can see, the last action of that UG
was to get renewed and eventually being present on Wikimania... Well, I
*really* don't want to say any more on this UG.

My current involvement to WMF is only to do random things on Wikisource and
Wikidata as I can do random things on any website, without further
interest. Not only due to the GoT WMF.br remixed edition, but also for many
issues on a more global level (WMF is constantly contracting new staff and
their servers are most unstable than back in 2004-2005... Only in sake of
example, since there are REALLY many issues, T71311
;, a huge data loss, is still
unsolved most due to the laziness of the involved staff while in any normal
entity it may result in an entire team working until solve it... should I
do anything on governance issues related to resources allocated to Brazil
while in the meantime the WMF is doing anything on their own governance,
only spending money on fees until gets bankrupt and with all data lost
forever in a huge bug not so hypothetical as many of you think? Not ever).
So, please, don't refer anymore to any past message written by me,
R-Argenton and any other portuguese-speaking person.

If the money collected by the WMF is bad spent in Brazil maybe is because
the WMF is entirely at this moment only bad spending their resources. So
there is no need to demonize R-Padula, since the entire WMF should stop
in different ways to reinvent the wheel and start producting things that
uses wheels.

Beijos, não me liga*,
[[User:555]]
---
* a quite old meme from Brazil
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[Wikimedia-l] Rodrigo versus Rodrigo (was Re: WLM Brasil 2015 - Winners / Numbers)

2015-10-31 Thread Luiz Augusto

On Sat, Oct 31, 2015 at 1:15 PM, Rodrigo Tetsuo Argenton <
rodrigo.argen...@gmail.com> wrote:

> (...)
>
> [5]some samples of local community interacting with Padula's "ideas":
>
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Brazilian_Group_of_Education_and_Research/User_Group_Proposal
> https://br.wikimedia.org/wiki/Usu%C3%A1rio_Discuss%C3%A3o:Rodrigo_Padula
> follow the thread:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediabr-l/2014-August/015754.html
>
>
Since R-Argenton provided some messages written by me in public opposition
against R-Padula in the past year, let's me write few lines updating the
subject.

R-Padula acted in many disruptive ways in a very complex Game of Thrones
WMF edition that ended in project results and partial lost of community
interest. Emphasis on partial. I'll explain it in another point of this
message. Let's say that R-Padula is our local Petyr Baelish.

R-Argenton for years is behind brazilian volunteers most of time on yet
more disruptive ways plus doing almost nothing on online projects or even
on outreach activities. Argenton may replies to it as "because I'm
blocked!" and I leaves to those who may be interested to think for the
reasons a community will choose to block a very experienced contributor.

Please don't read this as I advocating for Padula. Quite the opposite, I'm
only suggesting to ignore the bad mood from Argenton and really focus on
measurements and governance points proposed by Fæ.

Time to write few lines about the "partial lost of community interest"
point.

The now defunct Programa Catalisador do Brasil revealed the bad side of
some people (R-Argenton excluded from this, at least) and created a very
interesting GoT WMF remix that ended in many political fights exactly as on
the HBO series. But the community members where all benevolent zombies,
sometimes attending events, but most of time doing nothing. Nothing at all.

I personally leaved any attempt to do 'real-world' things after the renew
of Wikimedia Community User Group Brasil (not to be confused with the UG
that R-Padula is the leader). As far I can see, the last action of that UG
was to get renewed and eventually being present on Wikimania... Well, I
*really* don't want to say any more on this UG.

My current involvement to WMF is only to do random things on Wikisource and
Wikidata as I can do random things on any website, without further
interest. Not only due to the GoT WMF.br remixed edition, but also for many
issues on a more global level (WMF is constantly contracting new staff and
their servers are most unstable than back in 2004-2005... Only in sake of
example, since there are REALLY many issues, T71311
, a huge data loss, is still
unsolved most due to the laziness of the involved staff while in any normal
entity it may result in an entire team working until solve it... should I
do anything on governance issues related to resources allocated to Brazil
while in the meantime the WMF is doing anything on their own governance,
only spending money on fees until gets bankrupt and with all data lost
forever in a huge bug not so hypothetical as many of you think? Not ever).
So, please, don't refer anymore to any past message written by me,
R-Argenton and any other portuguese-speaking person.

If the money collected by the WMF is bad spent in Brazil maybe is because
the WMF is entirely at this moment only bad spending their resources. So
there is no need to demonize R-Padula, since the entire WMF should stop
in different ways to reinvent the wheel and start producting things that
uses wheels.

Beijos, não me liga*,
[[User:555]]
---
* a quite old meme from Brazil
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[Wikimedia-l] Enc: Re: WLM Brasil 2015 - Winners / Numbers

I cant see any relation in the "literature" regarding photo contests prizes and 
monthly average wage :-)

So our study was based on local photo contests prizes, international prizes and 
a reasonable value for a non-profit organization in a way that the value is 
interesting for a amateur or a professional to spend some time loading photos 
on commons, since great part of the Brazilians don't know our mission and what 
Wikipedia, Wikimedia Commons our Wikimedia Foundation really is!

During WLE 2015 we spent R$10.000 in two categories: best photo and best 
contributions 

For each category the prizes was: 

1º R$2000
2º R$1500
3º R$1000
TOTAL: R$10.000

- 4.453 photos
- 411 uploaders

Now for WLM 2015 we announced just one category, best photos with R$6.000 in 
prizes

1º R$3.000,00
2º R$2.000,00
3º R$1.000,00 
TOTAL: R$6.000

- ~13.000 photos
- ~2.000 uploaders

There are a lot of variables, but the value of the prizes and categories can 
influence the final results for sure.

Rodrigo Padula
Coordenador de Projetos
Grupo Wikimedia Brasileiro de Educação e Pesquisa
http://www.wikimedia.org.br
21 99326-0558

 Em Sáb, 31 Out 2015 16:49:05 -0200 Michael Peel 
escreveu  

> On 31 Oct 2015, at 18:34, Rodrigo Padula 
 wrote:
> 
> A lot of contests in Brasil pay prizes around R$10.000-R$60.000, the value 
of the prizes that we gave in Brasil are considered low by many participants 
and professionals in that field.

Isn't that something like 5-30 times the monthly average wage in Brazil, with 
the R$2.000 1st prize for WLM being around the average monthly wage?
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/brazil/wages 
;

Thanks,
Mike
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WLM Brasil 2015 - Winners / Numbers

2015-10-31 Thread Michael Peel


> On 31 Oct 2015, at 18:34, Rodrigo Padula  
> wrote:
> 
> A lot of contests in Brasil pay prizes around R$10.000-R$60.000, the value of 
> the prizes that we gave in Brasil are considered low by many participants and 
> professionals in that field.

Isn't that something like 5-30 times the monthly average wage in Brazil, with 
the R$2.000 1st prize for WLM being around the average monthly wage?
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/brazil/wages 


Thanks,
Mike
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WLM Brasil 2015 - Winners / Numbers

We did a long research in 2014 to define the prizes as described in the budget 
request and reports to WMF.

A lot of contests in Brasil pay prizes around R$10.000-R$60.000, the value of 
the prizes that we gave in Brasil are considered low by many participants and 
professionals in that field.

As described on the grant requests, the prizes was approved by GAC and WMF 
staff my friend.

I really cant get your point here! You had the opportunity to organize this 
contest for many years and nothing was done.

Why you never tried to organize that contests by yourself following your 
recomendations, ideas and values of prizes since you are so interested in that 
subject?



Our planning pages are always open to contributions, not fallacies. To 
criticize is always the easiest way to feel contributing. Just do something my 
friend and help us to move forward, not backward!

Rodrigo Padula
Coordenador de Projetos
Grupo Wikimedia Brasileiro de Educação e Pesquisa
http://www.wikimedia.org.br
21 99326-0558




 Em Sáb, 31 Out 2015 16:22:14 -0200 Rodrigo Tetsuo 
Argenton escreveu  

"this is a normal budget for any WLM or WLE in several countries."

WLE Brazil prizes: 3'300 EUR (2014) 3'000 EUR (2015) WLM 1800 EUR (2015)
[1]


WLE Thailand: 510 EUR (2014) Tunisia: 558 EUR (2015) Spain and Portugal: 1400
EUR (2015)...
WLM: Ireland: 550 EUR (2015) Latvia 500 EUR (2015) Spain 700 EUR (2015)

normal? normal would be 500 EUR in prizes. Not 6 times more.




[1] and the currency sky rocketed between 2014-15
http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=USD&to=BRL&view=2Y

On 31 October 2015 at 15:43, Ilario Valdelli  wrote:

> Again, and again.
>
> "Success for whom"?
>
>
> 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:PEG/Wikimedia_Community_Brazilian_Group_of_Education_and_Research/Wiki_Loves_Earth_Brasil_2015#Measures_of_success
>
> The section "measure of success" reports:
>
> at least 400 participants uploading one photograph or more;
> at least 5,000 photos uploaded;
> at least 15% of photos used on Wikipedia;
> at least 50% of new users engagement during the contest;
> at least 10 new articles about natural heritage sites in Brasil;
> at least 10% of new user retention after 2 months of the contest.
>
> Rodrigo reports:
>
> Pictures uploaded: 4.443
> Uploaders: 411
> New users registered on Commons: 325
> New users engagement: 79%
> Pictures user on Wikipedia: 86 (2%)
>
>
> Are the goals reached? Basically yes. When the project has been financed
> it was clear that the definition "success" was based on those measures.
>
> There is no success for a specific person on an individual and personal
> criteria.
>
> The user group of Brazil has not asked nothing special, this is a normal
> budget for any WLM or WLE in several countries.
>
>
>
>
> On 31.10.2015 18:20, Rodrigo Tetsuo Argenton wrote:
>
>> quality of work.
>>
>> Again "Success for whom?"
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Ilario Valdelli
> Wikimedia CH
> Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
> Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre
> Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera
> Switzerland - 8008 Zürich
> Tel: +41764821371
> http://www.wikimedia.ch
>
>
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> ;
>



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rodrigo.argen...@gmail.com
+55 11 979 718 884
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[Wikimedia-l] Enc: Re: WLM Brasil 2015 - Winners / Numbers

I see a lot of good results and contributions here and as pointed by Ilario, we 
reached great part of our measures of success 

WLM 2015
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Campaign:wlm-br  
- 4.453 photos
- 411 uploaders
- 325 new users registered on commons 

WLM 2014+2015
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Campaign:wle-br 
- 20 095 photos
- 2866 uploaders
- 2727 new users registered on commons

Only to complete, the first place on WLE 2014 was elected the second place on 
the WLE 2014 International and that same picture was selected in 7# place 
during the picture of the year on commons.

Now in 2015 we have more pictures selected in the WLE international contest.

Including all the media coverage and all impact on social media, for a small 
User Group approved in 2015, it's huge!!!

Rodrigo Padula
Coordenador de Projetos
Grupo Wikimedia Brasileiro de Educação e Pesquisa
http://www.wikimedia.org.br
21 99326-0558

 Em Sáb, 31 Out 2015 15:43:49 -0200 Ilario 
Valdelli escreveu  

Again, and again.

"Success for whom"?

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:PEG/Wikimedia_Community_Brazilian_Group_of_Education_and_Research/Wiki_Loves_Earth_Brasil_2015#Measures_of_success

The section "measure of success" reports:

at least 400 participants uploading one photograph or more;
at least 5,000 photos uploaded;
at least 15% of photos used on Wikipedia;
at least 50% of new users engagement during the contest;
at least 10 new articles about natural heritage sites in Brasil;
at least 10% of new user retention after 2 months of the contest.

Rodrigo reports:

Pictures uploaded: 4.443
Uploaders: 411
New users registered on Commons: 325
New users engagement: 79%
Pictures user on Wikipedia: 86 (2%)

Are the goals reached? Basically yes. When the project has been financed 
it was clear that the definition "success" was based on those measures.

There is no success for a specific person on an individual and personal 
criteria.

The user group of Brazil has not asked nothing special, this is a normal 
budget for any WLM or WLE in several countries.

On 31.10.2015 18:20, Rodrigo Tetsuo Argenton wrote:
> quality of work.
>
> Again "Success for whom?"
>
>
>

-- 
Ilario Valdelli
Wikimedia CH
Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre
Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera
Switzerland - 8008 Zürich
Tel: +41764821371
http://www.wikimedia.ch

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WLM Brasil 2015 - Winners / Numbers

"this is a normal budget for any WLM or WLE in several countries."

WLE Brazil prizes: 3'300 EUR (2014)  3'000 EUR (2015) WLM 1800 EUR (2015)
[1]


WLE  Thailand: 510 EUR (2014) Tunisia: 558 EUR (2015) Spain and Portugal: 1400
EUR (2015)...
WLM: Ireland:  550 EUR (2015)   Latvia 500 EUR (2015)  Spain 700 EUR (2015)

normal? normal would be 500 EUR in prizes. Not 6 times more.




[1] and the currency sky rocketed between 2014-15
http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=USD&to=BRL&view=2Y

On 31 October 2015 at 15:43, Ilario Valdelli  wrote:

> Again, and again.
>
> "Success for whom"?
>
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:PEG/Wikimedia_Community_Brazilian_Group_of_Education_and_Research/Wiki_Loves_Earth_Brasil_2015#Measures_of_success
>
> The section "measure of success" reports:
>
> at least 400 participants uploading one photograph or more;
> at least 5,000 photos uploaded;
> at least 15% of photos used on Wikipedia;
> at least 50% of new users engagement during the contest;
> at least 10 new articles about natural heritage sites in Brasil;
> at least 10% of new user retention after 2 months of the contest.
>
> Rodrigo reports:
>
> Pictures uploaded: 4.443
> Uploaders: 411
> New users registered on Commons:  325
> New users engagement: 79%
> Pictures user on Wikipedia: 86 (2%)
>
>
> Are the goals reached? Basically yes. When the project has been financed
> it was clear that the definition "success" was based on those measures.
>
> There is no success for a specific person on an individual and personal
> criteria.
>
> The user group of Brazil has not asked nothing special, this is a normal
> budget for any WLM or WLE in several countries.
>
>
>
>
> On 31.10.2015 18:20, Rodrigo Tetsuo Argenton wrote:
>
>> quality of work.
>>
>> Again "Success for whom?"
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Ilario Valdelli
> Wikimedia CH
> Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
> Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre
> Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera
> Switzerland - 8008 Zürich
> Tel: +41764821371
> http://www.wikimedia.ch
>
>
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> 
>



-- 
Rodrigo Tetsuo Argenton
rodrigo.argen...@gmail.com
+55 11 979 718 884
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WLM Brasil 2015 - Winners / Numbers


Again, and again.

"Success for whom"?

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:PEG/Wikimedia_Community_Brazilian_Group_of_Education_and_Research/Wiki_Loves_Earth_Brasil_2015#Measures_of_success

The section "measure of success" reports:

at least 400 participants uploading one photograph or more;
at least 5,000 photos uploaded;
at least 15% of photos used on Wikipedia;
at least 50% of new users engagement during the contest;
at least 10 new articles about natural heritage sites in Brasil;
at least 10% of new user retention after 2 months of the contest.

Rodrigo reports:

Pictures uploaded: 4.443
Uploaders: 411
New users registered on Commons:  325
New users engagement: 79%
Pictures user on Wikipedia: 86 (2%)


Are the goals reached? Basically yes. When the project has been financed 
it was clear that the definition "success" was based on those measures.


There is no success for a specific person on an individual and personal 
criteria.


The user group of Brazil has not asked nothing special, this is a normal 
budget for any WLM or WLE in several countries.





On 31.10.2015 18:20, Rodrigo Tetsuo Argenton wrote:

quality of work.

Again "Success for whom?"






--
Ilario Valdelli
Wikimedia CH
Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre
Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera
Switzerland - 8008 Zürich
Tel: +41764821371
http://www.wikimedia.ch


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Happy 3rd Birthday, Wikidata!

2015-10-31 Thread Tito Dutta

Congrats guys. It's 3 years now. :)
--
User:Titodutta (En WP)

On 31 October 2015 at 22:53, Lila Tretikov  wrote:

> I hope you had a great party! !!!
>
> sent from mobile. please excuse typos.
> On Oct 29, 2015 12:44 PM, "Redon Skikuli"  wrote:
>
> > Happy Birthday Wikidata, from the growing Albanian community!
> >
> > *---*
> >
> > *Redon Skikuli*
> > *e-mail: **re...@skikuli.com *
> > *web: **www.skikuli.com *
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 12:29 AM, Lydia Pintscher <
> > lydia.pintsc...@wikimedia.de> wrote:
> >
> > > Hey everyone :)
> > >
> > > Today we are celebrating Wikidata's 3rd birthday. I've been with the
> > > project since we started development 3.5 years ago and I can't believe
> > > what a ride it has been and how far we've come.
> > >
> > > As for every birthday celebrations are in order. We've created a page
> > > at https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Third_Birthday. There you
> > > can find editorials (by Harmonia Amanda, Ash Crow and me) about the
> > > past year and what is coming. Please take a moment to read it. There
> > > you will also find a section for congratulations and wishes, presents
> > > and more.
> > >
> > > Here's to many more years of Wikidata. Stay as awesome as you are!
> > >
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > > Lydia
> > >
> > >
> > > PS: The development team has presents as well. I'll send an email
> > > about them in a few hours. Ohhh the suspense :D
> > >
> > > --
> > > Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher
> > > Product Manager for Wikidata
> > >
> > > Wikimedia Deutschland e.V.
> > > Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24
> > > 10963 Berlin
> > > www.wikimedia.de
> > >
> > > Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.
> > >
> > > Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg
> > > unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das
> > > Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.
> > >
> > > ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Happy 3rd Birthday, Wikidata!

2015-10-31 Thread Lila Tretikov

I hope you had a great party! !!!

sent from mobile. please excuse typos.
On Oct 29, 2015 12:44 PM, "Redon Skikuli"  wrote:

> Happy Birthday Wikidata, from the growing Albanian community!
>
> *---*
>
> *Redon Skikuli*
> *e-mail: **re...@skikuli.com *
> *web: **www.skikuli.com *
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 12:29 AM, Lydia Pintscher <
> lydia.pintsc...@wikimedia.de> wrote:
>
> > Hey everyone :)
> >
> > Today we are celebrating Wikidata's 3rd birthday. I've been with the
> > project since we started development 3.5 years ago and I can't believe
> > what a ride it has been and how far we've come.
> >
> > As for every birthday celebrations are in order. We've created a page
> > at https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Third_Birthday. There you
> > can find editorials (by Harmonia Amanda, Ash Crow and me) about the
> > past year and what is coming. Please take a moment to read it. There
> > you will also find a section for congratulations and wishes, presents
> > and more.
> >
> > Here's to many more years of Wikidata. Stay as awesome as you are!
> >
> >
> > Cheers
> > Lydia
> >
> >
> > PS: The development team has presents as well. I'll send an email
> > about them in a few hours. Ohhh the suspense :D
> >
> > --
> > Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher
> > Product Manager for Wikidata
> >
> > Wikimedia Deutschland e.V.
> > Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24
> > 10963 Berlin
> > www.wikimedia.de
> >
> > Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.
> >
> > Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg
> > unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das
> > Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.
> >
> > ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WLM Brasil 2015 - Winners / Numbers

Funny.

Gerald: "What do YOU hope" [again YOU*]  Me: "My point is not important
here" Gerald:" When your point of view is that other people spending money
is wrong because it does not conform to your ideas"

???

I don't have a point, I'm asking "Success for whom?" I asked that, and "you
did not answer the question", I'm not have a argumentation, I'm asking
because I can't see any benefit, as a Brazilian, as a Wikimedia Commons
volunteer, as a Wikimedia Movement volunteer. You did not answer that also,
and use some ad hominem for??

And:

https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Grants_talk%3APEG%2FWikimedia_Community_Brazilian_Group_of_Education_and_Research%2FWiki_Loves_Earth_Brasil_2015&type=revision&diff=12031383&oldid=12029848

WMF ignored us and approved this. And WLE and WLM at this moment in Brazil
is not a good investment to donated money. I'm doing other thinks that are
resulting in Featured Pictures and Quality Images, and approaching the
university, you are not seeing, because we don't burn WMF money. And money
is not to burn, is to invest. Sample of work:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Illustration_Programme, see the
rate of QI and FP per photo, and the money used (zero), and WP used. I will
not list all here because this is not about me, it was just to refuted your
statements "When your ideas do not work", "did you not do this job", ...

"Money is there to burn as long as it probably leads to results"

Results, results for whom? Which results? For the Wikimedia Movement? If it
is, I can't see they delivering any good result, that's why so many
"negativity".

I'm not worried about spending money, I'm worried about the bad used of
money, pay for contribution, and to make it worse, receiving very low
quality of work.

Again "Success for whom?"


On 31 October 2015 at 14:06, Gerard Meijssen 
wrote:

> Hoi,
> So you did not answer the question. What is it that you aim to achieve. I
> get words, no ideas, nothing. Only negativity.
>
> Money is there to burn as long as it probably leads to results. The results
> should not be compared with what is done elsewhere when elsewhere is
> incomparable. When your point of view is that other people spending money
> is wrong because it does not conform to your ideas, then I pity you because
> why did you not do this job, why did you allow that situation to exist in
> the first place. When your ideas do not work, you may indeed blame others.
> Fine, move on.
> Thanks,
>   GerardM
>
> On 31 October 2015 at 16:15, Rodrigo Tetsuo Argenton <
> rodrigo.argen...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Gerard,
> >
> > This "you" is for me? Right?
> >
> > Well I'm really asking here for whom this was successful, and tried to
> > explore the several layers that could be impacted by this.
> >
> > My point is not important here, but this is a conversation, so:
> >
> > Measure of success:
> > Wikimedia Commons receiving a good impact by this, new active volunteers
> > that understand "free" "elaborative" "volunteers", new good quality
> images,
> > new documentation to facilitate the penetration of new comers. [1]
> > At least 100 featured pictures for each 1'000 USD invested[2], and at
> least
> > 10% of retention with those characteristics listed.
> >
> > Wikipedia having a bunch of articles illustrated, with good quality
> image,
> > and receiving more volunteers willing to help, increasing not only the
> > illustration of the article, but also the article it self. [3]
> > At least 10 featured articles or 30 four stars articles, of those
> National
> > Parks mentioned for 1'000 USD invested. For being a Featured Article amd
> > fou star at WP-pt, images are a must have.
> >
> > "off-line", this activity involving several volunteers that would create
> > activities to spread the Wikimedia Movement outside the Wiki word,
> > facilitating the journey to get in the Free Culture.
> >
> >
> > And the more 30'000 USD that I was referring was about WLE 2014/15 and
> WLE.
> > WLE 2014 they talked about 20'000 USD in this event, and we will not
> have a
> > clearance on that, because they use the Brazilian Program to burn this
> > money, and we don't have any serious report, and evaluation from the
> > community, see the report [4].
> >
> >
> > Fae, I did some raw comparatives for this WLE 2014:
> >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Bad_usage_of_money_in_Brazil
> >
> > And tried to bring the readers to the local reality, this waste of money
> > was totally ridiculous.
> > WLM made this comparatives also. We can put some "price" to that.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I started this email before Padula's answer, "we receive more
> international
> > community support than local support ", because the local community know
> > you, don't trust in you, they isolated you, and some of them have very
> > strong opposition to your permanence in Wikimedia Movement. [5] But we
> are
> > not talking about you.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [1] I would like to see Wikime

[Wikimedia-l] Enc: Re: WLM Brasil 2015 - Winners / Numbers

Argentom, only to demonstrate how wrong and misinformed you are, the guy you
cited on your email is a very active contributor with more than 50.000 edits on
the main domain of pt.wikipedia and near 100.000 edits including all domains.
Thinking in personal privacy, it is not a good approach to point here names and
social media accounts, that is why I will not identify the user name of this
very important contributor of our movement.

As you can read on the official announcement
http://www.wikimedia.org.br/wiki-loves-monuments-brasil-2015-vencedores.html
all the pictures uploaded for WLM was evaluated and filtered by teachers and
students of the University http://www.ucs.br/portais/curso164/ under the
coordination of the Prof. Edson Correa. All press releases and content
published and sent to our media partners was created and revised by the teacher
Prof. Dr. Marcio Gonçalves and students from a local university in Rio de
Janeiro.

I know you're just trying to attack me personally, but what you are doing is
disqualifying all the efforts of all Wikimedia movement responsible for
devising and organizing competitions like the WLE and WLM around the world and
for that you have no contributions and much less support any group that can
give you legitimacy for this.

I recommend to you to change your strategy and try to do something positive for
the Wikimedia Movement and for your life.

Your votes against and all that hate speech will not take you anywhere.

Kind regards

Rodrigo Padula
Coordenador de Projetos
Grupo Wikimedia Brasileiro de Educação e Pesquisa
http://www.wikimedia.org.br
21 99326-0558

Em Sáb, 31 Out 2015 00:26:50 -0200 Rodrigo Tetsuo
Argenton escreveu

"success of WLE Brasil 2015"

Success for whom?

*For the Wikimedia Commons **it was totally **innocuous. *

Less then 0,16% was a good quality image, including several snapshots
(mobile made), downsized images; the retention probably will follow WLE
BR 2014 and goona be very close to 0. No work was developed in conjunction
with the WCommons, and could created a problem, people got paid with
thousands for bad photos, and volunteers there producing real content...
And this money, more then 30'000 USD, come from WMF for the WLE 2014/15 and
WLM in Brazil, and in the other hand, WP-en removed hundreds of people
getting paid for contribution, how it's different? Oh yeah, the money did
not came from donations...

*For the Wikipedia it was barely nothing.*

The volume of images used was very low, and even in the list of winners, a
lot of those images do not have any education purpose, or do not properly
illustrates the site. And very low involvement of the community, retention
was none.

For the "off-line community" , :D...

Were are this people? The other coordinator named in the website [1], are
not even close to be involved with the community, check his FB:[2], very
active, none WLE/WLM publications... Commons: [3], any help with this
contests. People listed in the WUG group did not signed by themselves[4]...

And " including contributions from teachers and students..."??? "educational
program."??? I think that "they" are hidden it in a very deep place, not
even "their" website have any clues fof that[5], or "their" Facebook [6],
Meta [7]... "Their" partners are not related to educational programmes [8],
most of them are related to photography, for obvious reasons. as far we can
see, "they" are just burn WMF money to make this contests (for ???)...

*Two observation:*

.ORG.BR are websites restricted to ONG registered in legal terms here in
Brazil, or they already have a legal association and are not telling to
AffCom, or they don't have that and is putting the Wikimedia name in
some scheme
circumventing laws...

*The scope of the group, which can be found on their application, is "to
support the participation of teachers, researchers and employees of several
national institutions that participate in the Education Program of
Wikimedia in Brazil, aiming to integrate the academic community to the
Wikimedia movement, creating a more friendly and responsive environment for
the development of projects, research, contests, events and other
activities." *[9]

How this contests are related to this scope?

Again

Success for whom?

Links:

[1]http://www.wikimedia.org.br/sobre.html
[2]https://www.facebook.com/pedro.napolitanomendes
[3]
https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?limit=500&tagfilter=&title=Special%3AContributions&contribs=user&target=Zoldyick&namespace=&tagfilter=&year=2015&month=-1
[4]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikimedia_Community_Brazilian_Group_of_Education_and_Research&type=revision&diff=12244391&oldid=12244235
[5]http://www.wikimedia.org.br/projetos
[6]https://www.facebook.com/grupowikimediabr
[7]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikimedia_Community_Brazilian_Group_of_Education_and_Research
[8]http://www.wikimedia.org.br/parceiros.html
[9]
https://met

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WLM Brasil 2015 - Winners / Numbers

2015-10-31 Thread Gerard Meijssen

Hoi,
So you did not answer the question. What is it that you aim to achieve. I
get words, no ideas, nothing. Only negativity.

Money is there to burn as long as it probably leads to results. The results
should not be compared with what is done elsewhere when elsewhere is
incomparable. When your point of view is that other people spending money
is wrong because it does not conform to your ideas, then I pity you because
why did you not do this job, why did you allow that situation to exist in
the first place. When your ideas do not work, you may indeed blame others.
Fine, move on.
Thanks,
  GerardM

On 31 October 2015 at 16:15, Rodrigo Tetsuo Argenton <
rodrigo.argen...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Gerard,
>
> This "you" is for me? Right?
>
> Well I'm really asking here for whom this was successful, and tried to
> explore the several layers that could be impacted by this.
>
> My point is not important here, but this is a conversation, so:
>
> Measure of success:
> Wikimedia Commons receiving a good impact by this, new active volunteers
> that understand "free" "elaborative" "volunteers", new good quality images,
> new documentation to facilitate the penetration of new comers. [1]
> At least 100 featured pictures for each 1'000 USD invested[2], and at least
> 10% of retention with those characteristics listed.
>
> Wikipedia having a bunch of articles illustrated, with good quality image,
> and receiving more volunteers willing to help, increasing not only the
> illustration of the article, but also the article it self. [3]
> At least 10 featured articles or 30 four stars articles, of those National
> Parks mentioned for 1'000 USD invested. For being a Featured Article amd
> fou star at WP-pt, images are a must have.
>
> "off-line", this activity involving several volunteers that would create
> activities to spread the Wikimedia Movement outside the Wiki word,
> facilitating the journey to get in the Free Culture.
>
>
> And the more 30'000 USD that I was referring was about WLE 2014/15 and WLE.
> WLE 2014 they talked about 20'000 USD in this event, and we will not have a
> clearance on that, because they use the Brazilian Program to burn this
> money, and we don't have any serious report, and evaluation from the
> community, see the report [4].
>
>
> Fae, I did some raw comparatives for this WLE 2014:
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Bad_usage_of_money_in_Brazil
>
> And tried to bring the readers to the local reality, this waste of money
> was totally ridiculous.
> WLM made this comparatives also. We can put some "price" to that.
>
>
>
>
>
> I started this email before Padula's answer, "we receive more international
> community support than local support ", because the local community know
> you, don't trust in you, they isolated you, and some of them have very
> strong opposition to your permanence in Wikimedia Movement. [5] But we are
> not talking about you.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [1] I would like to see Wikimedia Commons volunteers be involved in the
> process, to create more clear, précised, and aligned rules for the contest,
> otherwise they will use Commons as a uploader, ignoring the community, and
> creating some issues, as massive deletion necessities. Also they have
> participate in Commons community, because during those contests volunteers
> of Commons had to help their contester, not knowing what is going on, or
> having a unexpected demand, as several questions in Portuguese in help
> cafes, and none volunteer who speaks pt ready there (I tried to help, but
> I'm not omniscient and omnipresent). (Same happened for Mexico contest).
> And they did not oriented about Wikimedia Commons, the legacy left by the
> contest was a ocean of "humm... okay", or over-processed downsized images.
> The ones that received the quality approval of the community, normally had
> to be edited by us. New volunteers, new documentation, quality images or
> else, nothing was created.
>
>
> [2] I know how much cost me to produce a Featured Picture, and it's
> something very close to that.
>
> [3]Lets take the first five images of the contest, and their respective
> articles:
>
> 1° - https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lajedo_de_Pai_Mateus
> 2°  - don't have a article for that. (image not in use)
> 3°  - don't have a article for that.
> 4° - article about the city:
> https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%A3o_Jos%C3%A9_dos_Ausentes (image not
> in
> use)
> 5° - https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tambaba (image not in use).
>
> All of those had images to illustrate the article before it shows up, and 3
> of 5 are not in use in any WP... 3 of 5 in the winners, less then 2% in
> total are in use, and normally just adding one more photo to the article,
> not illustrating the article, or receiving better images. This would be
> avoid, if the coordination had a conversation with the local community and
> listed articles without any picture, or very poor ones. Most of those
> stills with none image... samples:
> https://pt.wikipedia

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WLM Brasil 2015 - Winners / Numbers

Gerard,

This "you" is for me? Right?

Well I'm really asking here for whom this was successful, and tried to
explore the several layers that could be impacted by this.

My point is not important here, but this is a conversation, so:

Measure of success:
Wikimedia Commons receiving a good impact by this, new active volunteers
that understand "free" "elaborative" "volunteers", new good quality images,
new documentation to facilitate the penetration of new comers. [1]
At least 100 featured pictures for each 1'000 USD invested[2], and at least
10% of retention with those characteristics listed.

Wikipedia having a bunch of articles illustrated, with good quality image,
and receiving more volunteers willing to help, increasing not only the
illustration of the article, but also the article it self. [3]
At least 10 featured articles or 30 four stars articles, of those National
Parks mentioned for 1'000 USD invested. For being a Featured Article amd
fou star at WP-pt, images are a must have.

"off-line", this activity involving several volunteers that would create
activities to spread the Wikimedia Movement outside the Wiki word,
facilitating the journey to get in the Free Culture.


And the more 30'000 USD that I was referring was about WLE 2014/15 and WLE.
WLE 2014 they talked about 20'000 USD in this event, and we will not have a
clearance on that, because they use the Brazilian Program to burn this
money, and we don't have any serious report, and evaluation from the
community, see the report [4].


Fae, I did some raw comparatives for this WLE 2014:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Bad_usage_of_money_in_Brazil

And tried to bring the readers to the local reality, this waste of money
was totally ridiculous.
WLM made this comparatives also. We can put some "price" to that.





I started this email before Padula's answer, "we receive more international
community support than local support ", because the local community know
you, don't trust in you, they isolated you, and some of them have very
strong opposition to your permanence in Wikimedia Movement. [5] But we are
not talking about you.






[1] I would like to see Wikimedia Commons volunteers be involved in the
process, to create more clear, précised, and aligned rules for the contest,
otherwise they will use Commons as a uploader, ignoring the community, and
creating some issues, as massive deletion necessities. Also they have
participate in Commons community, because during those contests volunteers
of Commons had to help their contester, not knowing what is going on, or
having a unexpected demand, as several questions in Portuguese in help
cafes, and none volunteer who speaks pt ready there (I tried to help, but
I'm not omniscient and omnipresent). (Same happened for Mexico contest).
And they did not oriented about Wikimedia Commons, the legacy left by the
contest was a ocean of "humm... okay", or over-processed downsized images.
The ones that received the quality approval of the community, normally had
to be edited by us. New volunteers, new documentation, quality images or
else, nothing was created.


[2] I know how much cost me to produce a Featured Picture, and it's
something very close to that.

[3]Lets take the first five images of the contest, and their respective
articles:

1° - https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lajedo_de_Pai_Mateus
2°  - don't have a article for that. (image not in use)
3°  - don't have a article for that.
4° - article about the city:
https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%A3o_Jos%C3%A9_dos_Ausentes (image not in
use)
5° - https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tambaba (image not in use).

All of those had images to illustrate the article before it shows up, and 3
of 5 are not in use in any WP... 3 of 5 in the winners, less then 2% in
total are in use, and normally just adding one more photo to the article,
not illustrating the article, or receiving better images. This would be
avoid, if the coordination had a conversation with the local community and
listed articles without any picture, or very poor ones. Most of those
stills with none image... samples:
https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parque_Nacional_da_Amaz%C3%B4nia
https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parque_Nacional_Serra_da_Mocidade
https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parque_Nacional_da_Serra_da_Cutia
https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parque_Nacional_de_Paca%C3%A1s_Novos
https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parque_Nacional_de_Serra_das_Lontras

check: https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lista_de_parques_nacionais_do_Brasil,
see the number of red links

and just for fun, try to open the first articles about beaches in this
list: https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lista_de_praias_de_Santa_Catarina

Understand four star articles.
https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predefini%C3%A7%C3%A3o:Escala_de_avalia%C3%A7%C3%A3o

[4] the only report
https://br.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wiki_Loves_Earth/2014

values on this report
13.000 + 6.950,00 + 13.900,00 + 2*( 2.500,00 + 1.500,00 + 1.000,00) =
43'850 BRL ~ 20'000 USD at the

[Wikimedia-l] Enc: Re: WLM Brasil 2015 - Winners / Numbers

Hello Illario and Jane,

Thanks by your comments. That is exactly the point!

WLM and WLE are not only about the number of pictures loaded and the general 
quality of the pictures. It's about our mission and new users engagement too.

That is what our group is trying to do here, teach people about our mission and 
what Wikipedia and commons really is and how to contribute. Unfortunately we 
receive more international community support than local support #SadButTrue.

As you can read in all planning pages, grant requests and emails, Rodrigo 
Argentom is always there trying to create barriers, posting negative comments 
and generating unfruitiful discussions. We never received any contribution or 
constructive comment from him, so I decided to just ignore him and move forward 
with our ideas and objectives. Based on that bad behavior he was blocked in 
many Wikimedia projects (pt.wikipedia and etc) and as I know, he is not part of 
any group, he is only around with that old trash talking.

Based on the level of maturity of our Brazilian community and the low interest 
of that community in off-line activities like WLM, WLE, GLAM and etc, is a 
utopia to think that in a single project we will collect a huge amount of 
pictures, with high level of quality and that all the photographers will join 
on commons, will categorize properly all the pictures and they will look at 
Wikipedia and will add the good pictures there, it will never happens here, not 
without a massive support from the local community.

We will have to do it in many steps, right now we are just a small user group 
trying to move forward, we are not a chapter with payed staff and a lot of 
people working on this full time, we are just a group of students, teachers and 
researchers doing what we can, when we can.

The WLE and WLM are generating a good impact in Brasil with a good media 
coverage and a lot of positive external comments.

We had many posts published on blogs, important portals, printed 
magazines(60.000 copies) and newspapers regarding the contest, spreading our 
objectives and the final results.

- WLE 2015 media coverage: 
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Wiki_Loves_Earth_2015_in_Brazil/Planning#Mat.C3.A9rias_na_m.C3.ADdia
- WLM event page access statistics: 
http://stats.grok.se/pt/latest90/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Wiki_Loves_Monuments_2015/Brasil
- WLM 2015 media coverage: 
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Wiki_Loves_Monuments_2015_in_Brazil/Planning#Publica.C3.A7.C3.B5es

For both contests we used strategies and campaigns on social media, reaching 
hundreds of thousands of people.

During WLM we get an important structured list of monuments from the Brazilian 
gov and now we are in touch with IPHAN, the institute responsible by protect 
and register the national monuments in Brasil. So, for the next years we will 
have conditions to improve and increase the list of monuments. This king of 
stuff are positive impact

WLE and WLM are only the beginning of our efforts to move forward with the 
Wikimedia Movement here in Brasil.

I know that I shall meet many barriers and many "R. Argentoms" along the way, 
but I will continue fighting for our mission, that is bigger than anyone of us 
;-)

Rodrigo Padula
Coordenador de Projetos
Grupo Wikimedia Brasileiro de Educação e Pesquisa
http://www.wikimedia.org.br
21 99326-0558

 Em Sáb, 31 Out 2015 09:37:31 -0200 Jane Darnell  
escreveu  

I totally agree with Ilario here. We have yet to put a financial value on a
Wikimedia contributor time unit, but I would venture to say that if such
projects manage to procure even one Wikimedia contributor for the projects
then that is money well spent.

On Sat, Oct 31, 2015 at 12:28 PM, Ilario Valdelli 
wrote:

> On 31.10.2015 12:12, Fæ wrote:
>
>> On 31 Oct 2015 11:00, "Ilario Valdelli"  
wrote:
>>
>>> On 31.10.2015 11:46, Fæ wrote:
>>>
 Hang on. Could I have an independent reality check; is that 
really $7
 per photograph?

 Fae

>>> 30.000 is exact, but they are 30.000 Real which means 11.000 USD.
>>>
>> Cool. So about $2.50 per image.
>>
>> This looks expensive compared to my upload projects (the last 500,000
>> images have cost $0.00 in total) but perhaps the benchmark is better 
when
>> measures against other WLM projects.
>>
>> Anyone have the numbers to show comparative value?
>>
>> Fae
>>
>
> Using a bot to collect images in internet probably would have been lesser
> than 0$ per image.
>
> Anyway the real calculation of an impact of a project is not so simple.
>
> Because if we would use the same parameters, people reading this thread
> have spent more than 5 minutes, and calculating the sum of people reading
> this thread we can calculate a big time waste.
>
> We can say that this thread is really time-expensive without producing a
> real impact. But we know that this mailing list is done to help the
> communication and not to calculate the tim

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WLM Brasil 2015 - Winners / Numbers

2015-10-31 Thread Fæ

We have many years of running these very similar projects. It should
be possible to compare the value of outcomes against each other to see
if some use better practices than others, and then to help assess
future grant proposals for their potential value against estimated
costs.

I agree that outcomes are more than quantity of images, and the large
WMF programme evaluation training had precisely the aim of ensuring
that all funded projects would apply non-subjective measures of
value (i.e. investment per image, investment per new editor,
investment per new article are all measurable). One issue raised
was the poor quality of a significant number of images, and quality
should be part of the measurability of claimed outcomes. The original
post in this thread mentioned that 86 photographs have been used on
Wikipedia, this is a reasonable measure of quality, though investing
$11,000 for this outcome is probably an unfair comparison, so others
are needed.

When programmes include competitions with prizes, then this requires
special attention at the grant stage due as, again, we have
experienced several controversies around programmes reliant on this
method.

We may wish to change the thread title, but the governance questions
raised are relevant and are best not dismissed with "stop wasting our
time on an email thread which should be about good PR".

Fae

On 31 October 2015 at 11:28, Ilario Valdelli  wrote:
> On 31.10.2015 12:12, Fæ wrote:
>>
>> On 31 Oct 2015 11:00, "Ilario Valdelli"  wrote:
>>>
>>> On 31.10.2015 11:46, Fæ wrote:

 Hang on. Could I have an independent reality check; is that really $7
 per photograph?

 Fae
>>>
>>> 30.000 is exact, but they are 30.000 Real which means 11.000 USD.
>>
>> Cool. So about $2.50 per image.
>>
>> This looks expensive compared to my upload projects (the last 500,000
>> images have cost $0.00 in total) but perhaps the benchmark is better when
>> measures against other WLM projects.
>>
>> Anyone have the numbers to show comparative value?
>>
>> Fae
>
>
> Using a bot to collect images in internet probably would have been lesser
> than 0$ per image.
>
> Anyway the real calculation of an impact of a project is not so simple.
>
> Because if we would use the same parameters, people reading this thread have
> spent more than 5 minutes, and calculating the sum of people reading this
> thread we can calculate a big time waste.
>
> We can say that this thread is really time-expensive without producing a
> real impact. But we know that this mailing list is done to help the
> communication and not to calculate the time waste, so a thread like this is
> accepted.
>
> I have put the links, it's sufficient to read the measures of the success to
> know that the aim of the project is not to produce only images.
>
> Kind regards
>
>
> --
> Ilario Valdelli
> Wikimedia CH

-- 
fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WLM Brasil 2015 - Winners / Numbers

2015-10-31 Thread Jane Darnell

I totally agree with Ilario here. We have yet to put a financial value on a
Wikimedia contributor time unit, but I would venture to say that if such
projects manage to procure even one Wikimedia contributor for the projects
then that is money well spent.

On Sat, Oct 31, 2015 at 12:28 PM, Ilario Valdelli 
wrote:

> On 31.10.2015 12:12, Fæ wrote:
>
>> On 31 Oct 2015 11:00, "Ilario Valdelli"  wrote:
>>
>>> On 31.10.2015 11:46, Fæ wrote:
>>>
 Hang on. Could I have an independent reality check; is that really $7
 per photograph?

 Fae

>>> 30.000 is exact, but they are 30.000 Real which means 11.000 USD.
>>>
>> Cool. So about $2.50 per image.
>>
>> This looks expensive compared to my upload projects (the last 500,000
>> images have cost $0.00 in total) but perhaps the benchmark is better when
>> measures against other WLM projects.
>>
>> Anyone have the numbers to show comparative value?
>>
>> Fae
>>
>
> Using a bot to collect images in internet probably would have been lesser
> than 0$ per image.
>
> Anyway the real calculation of an impact of a project is not so simple.
>
> Because if we would use the same parameters, people reading this thread
> have spent more than 5 minutes, and calculating the sum of people reading
> this thread we can calculate a big time waste.
>
> We can say that this thread is really time-expensive without producing a
> real impact. But we know that this mailing list is done to help the
> communication and not to calculate the time waste, so a thread like this is
> accepted.
>
> I have put the links, it's sufficient to read the measures of the success
> to know that the aim of the project is not to produce only images.
>
> Kind regards
>
> --
> Ilario Valdelli
> Wikimedia CH
> Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
> Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre
> Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera
> Switzerland - 8008 Zürich
> Tel: +41764821371
> http://www.wikimedia.ch
>
>
> ___
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> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WLM Brasil 2015 - Winners / Numbers


On 31.10.2015 12:12, Fæ wrote:

On 31 Oct 2015 11:00, "Ilario Valdelli"  wrote:

On 31.10.2015 11:46, Fæ wrote:

Hang on. Could I have an independent reality check; is that really $7
per photograph?

Fae

30.000 is exact, but they are 30.000 Real which means 11.000 USD.

Cool. So about $2.50 per image.

This looks expensive compared to my upload projects (the last 500,000
images have cost $0.00 in total) but perhaps the benchmark is better when
measures against other WLM projects.

Anyone have the numbers to show comparative value?

Fae


Using a bot to collect images in internet probably would have been 
lesser than 0$ per image.


Anyway the real calculation of an impact of a project is not so simple.

Because if we would use the same parameters, people reading this thread 
have spent more than 5 minutes, and calculating the sum of people 
reading this thread we can calculate a big time waste.


We can say that this thread is really time-expensive without producing a 
real impact. But we know that this mailing list is done to help the 
communication and not to calculate the time waste, so a thread like this 
is accepted.


I have put the links, it's sufficient to read the measures of the 
success to know that the aim of the project is not to produce only images.


Kind regards

--
Ilario Valdelli
Wikimedia CH
Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre
Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera
Switzerland - 8008 Zürich
Tel: +41764821371
http://www.wikimedia.ch


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WLM Brasil 2015 - Winners / Numbers

2015-10-31 Thread Fæ

On 31 Oct 2015 11:00, "Ilario Valdelli"  wrote:
>
> On 31.10.2015 11:46, Fæ wrote:
>> Hang on. Could I have an independent reality check; is that really $7
>> per photograph?
>>
>> Fae
>
> 30.000 is exact, but they are 30.000 Real which means 11.000 USD.

Cool. So about $2.50 per image.

This looks expensive compared to my upload projects (the last 500,000
images have cost $0.00 in total) but perhaps the benchmark is better when
measures against other WLM projects.

Anyone have the numbers to show comparative value?

Fae
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WLM Brasil 2015 - Winners / Numbers