Re: [Wikimedia-l] Let's go gender neutral

[Anders Wennersten]

This basic issue has for many years been a "hot" issue in Sweden.

And the use of the words "han" (he/his) and "hon" (she/her) has become a 
minefield.  And to use "him and her" to mean all type of persons is just 
not acceptable (what about all who want to use other attributes to 
define themselves).


And a new word has been created "hen", meant to be a more neutral word.  
But then this word has become very controversial as it is seen as a 
leftist/feminist thing by conservative/populists


So when it comes to how we use them in documents related to WIkipedia, 
is to not use any of them. It is a little bit more complicated but it is 
quite possible. "The person who takes a photo should" etc


And our standpoint is that we as Wikipedians should not be first in 
introducing new use of language but wait until it has become mainstream 
(if it ever will be)


Anders



Den 2017-04-07 kl. 00:24, skrev Fæ:

Thanks for raising the different language problems. I'm aware of it,
though I only edit in English.

Last weekend I was much enlightened by sitting down with a German
trans contributor, who was showing me the system language problems on
the German Wikipedia, and together we started having fun comparing
trans related policies and trans related article numbers. I was amazed
at the difference. No, that's not enough, I was really shocked that
the second largest Wikipedia that I deeply respect, is a community
that apparently has little appetite or any active discussion on these
LGBT+ issues. In comparison the English Wikipedia feels like a vibrant
and creative garden of Eden to me as an LGBT+ contributor.

By forging ahead, at least on Wikimedia Commons[1] and attempting the
same on the English Wikipedia[2], we hope to set a healthy example for
what is possible, and lay down the challenge to other projects to be
truly welcoming and feel encouraging for trans and genderqueer readers
and editors, rather than just saying that we are.

Language may be very limiting, sure, let's accept that fact of life.
It's both interesting and difficult. But it's not unimaginable that
our Wikimedia movement could end up adopting leading edge new
non-gendered terms in multiple languages for simple words like "user"
and "administrator" that currently are unnecessarily gendered. We
could even show willing by taking baby steps like just empowering our
users to set their own preferred pronoun style, like Ve or Mx, which
is entirely possible right now, today, in the MediaWiki software.
Ignoring these options, or even joking about them, is to pretend that
genderqueer people don't exist.

Yes, please flag up the issues, let's discuss the challenges. No, I
simply do not accept that by we are asking for the impossible on any
of our projects, I never shall accept it.

Links:
1. Wikimedia Commons, new draft policy created today, because of these
discussions: 
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Use_of_gender_neutral_language
2. Drafting a new English Wikipedia RFC, because of these discussions:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_LGBT_studies#Research_for_proposing_a_gender_neutral_principle_for_Wikipedia_policies_and_guidelines

Thanks,
Fae

On 6 April 2017 at 21:49, John Erling Blad  wrote:

There are a lot of languages where there are no neutral gender, or where
there are a single male gender, or it can even be that the only neutral
gender is used for things and animals.

In German there is an expectation of gender-correct form. In Norwegian
there is an expectation of a neutral form. In Danish there is only
masculine forms.

Sorry but this idea is not generally usable.

On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 10:37 PM, Raymond Leonard <
raymond.f.leonard...@gmail.com> wrote:


One can use "one" or "one's" to substitute in many places for 3rd person
singular pronouns. Not everywhere, but it is in keeping with English
grammar.

Peaceray

On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 10:35 AM, J.  wrote:


Instead of:
* A photographer has to be given credit when the picture is used.
How about:
* The artist must be given attribution when an image is reused.

Cheers! Wayne Calhoon (AKA Checkingfax)

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Let's go gender neutral

[Gerard Meijssen]

Hoi,
I quote: " I simply do not accept that by we are asking for the impossible
on any of our projects, I never shall accept it." That is indeed your
prerogative. The problem is that with such a point of view, there is not
much of a discussion possible. If you want to be single issue Fae, then
fine but it translates in how people perceive you including your other
points of view. That is not something that would make me happy and I know
it is not how you achieve things.
Thanks,
  GerardM

On 7 April 2017 at 00:24, Fæ  wrote:

> Thanks for raising the different language problems. I'm aware of it,
> though I only edit in English.
>
> Last weekend I was much enlightened by sitting down with a German
> trans contributor, who was showing me the system language problems on
> the German Wikipedia, and together we started having fun comparing
> trans related policies and trans related article numbers. I was amazed
> at the difference. No, that's not enough, I was really shocked that
> the second largest Wikipedia that I deeply respect, is a community
> that apparently has little appetite or any active discussion on these
> LGBT+ issues. In comparison the English Wikipedia feels like a vibrant
> and creative garden of Eden to me as an LGBT+ contributor.
>
> By forging ahead, at least on Wikimedia Commons[1] and attempting the
> same on the English Wikipedia[2], we hope to set a healthy example for
> what is possible, and lay down the challenge to other projects to be
> truly welcoming and feel encouraging for trans and genderqueer readers
> and editors, rather than just saying that we are.
>
> Language may be very limiting, sure, let's accept that fact of life.
> It's both interesting and difficult. But it's not unimaginable that
> our Wikimedia movement could end up adopting leading edge new
> non-gendered terms in multiple languages for simple words like "user"
> and "administrator" that currently are unnecessarily gendered. We
> could even show willing by taking baby steps like just empowering our
> users to set their own preferred pronoun style, like Ve or Mx, which
> is entirely possible right now, today, in the MediaWiki software.
> Ignoring these options, or even joking about them, is to pretend that
> genderqueer people don't exist.
>
> Yes, please flag up the issues, let's discuss the challenges. No, I
> simply do not accept that by we are asking for the impossible on any
> of our projects, I never shall accept it.
>
> Links:
> 1. Wikimedia Commons, new draft policy created today, because of these
> discussions: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Use_of_gender_
> neutral_language
> 2. Drafting a new English Wikipedia RFC, because of these discussions:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_
> LGBT_studies#Research_for_proposing_a_gender_neutral_
> principle_for_Wikipedia_policies_and_guidelines
>
> Thanks,
> Fae
>
> On 6 April 2017 at 21:49, John Erling Blad  wrote:
> > There are a lot of languages where there are no neutral gender, or where
> > there are a single male gender, or it can even be that the only neutral
> > gender is used for things and animals.
> >
> > In German there is an expectation of gender-correct form. In Norwegian
> > there is an expectation of a neutral form. In Danish there is only
> > masculine forms.
> >
> > Sorry but this idea is not generally usable.
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 10:37 PM, Raymond Leonard <
> > raymond.f.leonard...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> One can use "one" or "one's" to substitute in many places for 3rd person
> >> singular pronouns. Not everywhere, but it is in keeping with English
> >> grammar.
> >>
> >> Peaceray
> >>
> >> On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 10:35 AM, J.  wrote:
> >>
> >> > Instead of:
> >> > * A photographer has to be given credit when the picture is used.
> >> > How about:
> >> > * The artist must be given attribution when an image is reused.
> >> >
> >> > Cheers! Wayne Calhoon (AKA Checkingfax)
> >> >
> >> > ___
> >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> >> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> >> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> >> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> >> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> ,
> >> > 
> >> >
> >> ___
> >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
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> >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
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> >>
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> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https:/

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on Discovery search efforts and upcoming releases

[James Salsman]

Sam,

How do you feel about searching recent changes? I saw some estimates that
would take a lot more effort than it would.

Also, is Len Tower still in the Boston area? The more we improve the diff
algorithm, the more edit conflicts we can avoid, and that's certainly worth
the money, time, and effort too.


On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 7:07 PM Samuel Klein  wrote:

> Deb, Fantastic.  Really, really great.  And I don't just mean your champion
> footnote selection.
>
> Thanks to you and  Erik for the update!
> SJ
>
> (still dreaming of federated search results from cousin free-knowledge
> projects, and public libraries near you, not just Wikimedia ones :)
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 8:11 PM, Erik Bernhardson <
> ebernhard...@wikimedia.org
> > wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 4:16 PM, Deborah Tankersley <
> > dtankers...@wikimedia.org> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Michael,
> > >
> > > It's just searching on Wikipedia for now, as the Structured Data
> project
> > on
> > > Commons is just ramping up.
> > >
> > > Also for some clarity, most of the improvements are not limited to
> > wikipedias, for example the work with ascii folding, and language
> analysis
> > chains applies to all projects for a given language. When we improved how
> > we handled the polish language that was for all projects that use polish
> as
> > their content language. Similarly while the sister project search we are
> > rolling out will only be showing on wikipedias, it is explicitly about
> > including content from the sister projects (wiktionary, wikibooks, etc)
> on
> > the search result page to show users that there is great content
> available
> > from these sister projects.
> >
> > Commons search is hard, and we will get there. We will be working closely
> > with the structured data team to improve searching commons with
> structured
> > data.
> >
> >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > Deb
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > deb tankersley
> > > irc: debt
> > > Product Manager, Discovery
> > > Wikimedia Foundation
> > >
> > > On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 4:26 PM, Michael Maggs 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi
> > > >
> > > > You've mentioned searching on "Wikipedia" there. Did you mean
> > > "Wikimedia",
> > > > or are there still no Commons search improvements as yet?
> > > >
> > > > Michael
> > > >
> > > > Deborah Tankersley 
> > > >> 6 April 2017 at 11:15 pm
> > > >> tl;dr: Search continues to expand functionality by displaying more
> > > >> information on the search results page
> > > >>
> > > >> Ever started searching for something on Wikipedia and
> > wondered—*really*,
> > > >> is
> > > >>
> > > >> that all that there is? Does it feel like you’re somehow playing
> hide
> > > and
> > > >> seek with all the knowledge that’s out there? And...wouldn’t it be
> > great
> > > >> to
> > > >> see articles or categories that are similar to your search query and
> > > maybe
> > > >> some related images or links to other languages in which to read
> that
> > > >> article? Or, maybe you just want to read and contribute to projects
> > > other
> > > >> than Wikipedia but need a jump start with a few short summaries from
> > > >> sister
> > > >> projects.
> > > >> The Discovery Search team has been testing out some really cool new
> > > >> features that will enable some fun and fascinating clicking—down the
> > > >> rabbit
> > > >> hole of Wikipedia.[1] But first, let’s recap what we’ve been doing
> > > >> recently.
> > > >>
> > > >> We've been doing tons of work creating, updating, and finessing the
> > > search
> > > >> back end to enhance search queries. There have been many complex
> > things
> > > >> that have happened, things like: adding ascii-folding and stemming,
> > > >> detecting when a visitor might be typing in a language that is
> > different
> > > >> than the Wikipedia that they are on, switching from tf-idf to BM25,
> > > >> dropping trailing question marks, and updating to ElasticSearch
> > version
> > > 5.
> > > >> [2][3][4][5][6][7] Whew!
> > > >>
> > > >> We have much more planned in the coming months—machine learning with
> > > >> ‘learning to rank’, investigating and deploying new language
> > analyzers,
> > > >> and, after exhaustive analysis, removing quotes within queries by
> > > >> default.[8][9][10][11] We’ll also be working closely with the new
> > > >> Structured Data team in their brand new work on Commons.[12][13]
> > > >>
> > > >> We also want to improve the part that our readers and editors
> > interface
> > > >> with: the search results page! We started brainstorming during the
> > late
> > > >> summer of 2016 on what we could do to make search results better—to
> > > easily
> > > >> find interesting, relevant content and to create a more intuitive
> > > viewing
> > > >> experience.[14] We designed and refined numerous ideas on how to
> > improve
> > > >> the search results page and received lots of good feedback from the
> > > >> community.[15]
> > > >>
> > > >> Empowered by the feedback, we began testing st

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on Discovery search efforts and upcoming releases

[Samuel Klein]

Deb, Fantastic.  Really, really great.  And I don't just mean your champion
footnote selection.

Thanks to you and  Erik for the update!
SJ

(still dreaming of federated search results from cousin free-knowledge
projects, and public libraries near you, not just Wikimedia ones :)


On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 8:11 PM, Erik Bernhardson  wrote:

> On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 4:16 PM, Deborah Tankersley <
> dtankers...@wikimedia.org> wrote:
>
> > Hi Michael,
> >
> > It's just searching on Wikipedia for now, as the Structured Data project
> on
> > Commons is just ramping up.
> >
> > Also for some clarity, most of the improvements are not limited to
> wikipedias, for example the work with ascii folding, and language analysis
> chains applies to all projects for a given language. When we improved how
> we handled the polish language that was for all projects that use polish as
> their content language. Similarly while the sister project search we are
> rolling out will only be showing on wikipedias, it is explicitly about
> including content from the sister projects (wiktionary, wikibooks, etc) on
> the search result page to show users that there is great content available
> from these sister projects.
>
> Commons search is hard, and we will get there. We will be working closely
> with the structured data team to improve searching commons with structured
> data.
>
>
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Deb
> >
> >
> > --
> > deb tankersley
> > irc: debt
> > Product Manager, Discovery
> > Wikimedia Foundation
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 4:26 PM, Michael Maggs 
> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi
> > >
> > > You've mentioned searching on "Wikipedia" there. Did you mean
> > "Wikimedia",
> > > or are there still no Commons search improvements as yet?
> > >
> > > Michael
> > >
> > > Deborah Tankersley 
> > >> 6 April 2017 at 11:15 pm
> > >> tl;dr: Search continues to expand functionality by displaying more
> > >> information on the search results page
> > >>
> > >> Ever started searching for something on Wikipedia and
> wondered—*really*,
> > >> is
> > >>
> > >> that all that there is? Does it feel like you’re somehow playing hide
> > and
> > >> seek with all the knowledge that’s out there? And...wouldn’t it be
> great
> > >> to
> > >> see articles or categories that are similar to your search query and
> > maybe
> > >> some related images or links to other languages in which to read that
> > >> article? Or, maybe you just want to read and contribute to projects
> > other
> > >> than Wikipedia but need a jump start with a few short summaries from
> > >> sister
> > >> projects.
> > >> The Discovery Search team has been testing out some really cool new
> > >> features that will enable some fun and fascinating clicking—down the
> > >> rabbit
> > >> hole of Wikipedia.[1] But first, let’s recap what we’ve been doing
> > >> recently.
> > >>
> > >> We've been doing tons of work creating, updating, and finessing the
> > search
> > >> back end to enhance search queries. There have been many complex
> things
> > >> that have happened, things like: adding ascii-folding and stemming,
> > >> detecting when a visitor might be typing in a language that is
> different
> > >> than the Wikipedia that they are on, switching from tf-idf to BM25,
> > >> dropping trailing question marks, and updating to ElasticSearch
> version
> > 5.
> > >> [2][3][4][5][6][7] Whew!
> > >>
> > >> We have much more planned in the coming months—machine learning with
> > >> ‘learning to rank’, investigating and deploying new language
> analyzers,
> > >> and, after exhaustive analysis, removing quotes within queries by
> > >> default.[8][9][10][11] We’ll also be working closely with the new
> > >> Structured Data team in their brand new work on Commons.[12][13]
> > >>
> > >> We also want to improve the part that our readers and editors
> interface
> > >> with: the search results page! We started brainstorming during the
> late
> > >> summer of 2016 on what we could do to make search results better—to
> > easily
> > >> find interesting, relevant content and to create a more intuitive
> > viewing
> > >> experience.[14] We designed and refined numerous ideas on how to
> improve
> > >> the search results page and received lots of good feedback from the
> > >> community.[15]
> > >>
> > >> Empowered by the feedback, we began testing starting with a display of
> > >> results from the Wikimedia sister projects next to the regular search
> > >> results.[16] The idea for this test was to enable discovery into other
> > >> projects—projects that our visitors might not have known about—by
> > >> displaying interesting results in small snippets. The sidebar display
> of
> > >> the sister projects borrows from a similar feature in use on the
> > Italian,
> > >> Catalan and French Wikipedias. We've run two A/B tests on the sister
> > >> project search results with detailed analysis and, after a bit of
> final
> > >> touches to the code, we will release the new functionality into

[Wikimedia-l] Start of the 2017 Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees elections

[Joe Sutherland]

 Please accept our apologies for cross-posting this message.

On behalf of the Wikimedia Foundation Board Elections Committee, I am
pleased to announce that self-nominations are now being accepted for the
2017 Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees Elections.[1]

The Board of Trustees (Board) is the decision-making body that is
ultimately responsible for the long-term sustainability of the Wikimedia
Foundation,[2] so we value wide input into its selection. More information
about this role can be found at <
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2017/Board_of_Trustees>.
Please read the letter from the Board of Trustees calling for candidates
here: <
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2017/Board_of_Trustees/Call_for_candidates
>.

The candidacy submission phase will last from April 7 (00:00 UTC) to April
20 (23:59 UTC) and occurring on Meta-Wiki at <
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2017/Board_of_Trustees/Candidates
>

We will also be accepting questions to ask the candidates from April 7 to
April 20. You can submit your questions on Meta-Wiki at <
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2017/Board_of_Trustees/Questions
>

Once the questions submission period has ended on April 20, the Elections
Committee will then collate the questions for the candidates to respond to
beginning on April 21.

The goal of this process is to fill the three community-selected seats on
the Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees. The election results will be
used by the Board itself to select its new members.

The full schedule for the Board elections is as follows. All dates are
inclusive, that is, from the beginning of the first day (UTC) to the end of
the last.

* April 7 (00:00 UTC) – April 20 (23:59 UTC): Board nominations
* April 7 – April 20: Board candidates questions submission period
* April 21 – April 30: Board candidates answer questions
* May 1 – May 14: Board voting period
* May 15–19: Board vote checking
* May 20: Board result announcement goal

In addition to the Board elections, we will also soon be holding elections
for the following roles:

* Funds Dissemination Committee (FDC)
** There are five positions being filled. More information about this
election can be found at <
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2017/Funds_Dissemination_Committee
>.

* Funds Dissemination Committee Ombudsperson (Ombuds)
** One position is being filled.  More information about this election can
be found at <
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2017/Funds_Dissemination_Committee_Ombudsperson
>.

Please note that this year the Board of Trustees elections will be held
before the FDC and Ombuds elections. Candidates who are not elected to the
Board are explicitly permitted and encouraged to submit themselves as
candidates to the FDC or Ombuds positions after the results of the Board
elections are announced.

More information on this year's elections can be found at  <
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2017>.

Please feel free to post a note about the election on your project's
village pump. Any questions related to the election can be posted on the
talk page on Meta, or sent to the election committee's mailing list,
.


On behalf of the Election Committee,
Katie Chan, Chair, Board Election Committee
Joe Sutherland, Community Advocate, Wikimedia Foundation

PS. An on-wiki version of this message is available for translation at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2017/Updates/Start_of_the_2017_Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_of_Trustees_elections

[1]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2017/Board_of_Trustees/Call_for_candidates
[2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_of_Trustees

--
*Joe Sutherland*
Community Advocate
Wikimedia Foundation
___
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Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on Discovery search efforts and upcoming releases

[Erik Bernhardson]

On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 4:16 PM, Deborah Tankersley <
dtankers...@wikimedia.org> wrote:

> Hi Michael,
>
> It's just searching on Wikipedia for now, as the Structured Data project on
> Commons is just ramping up.
>
> Also for some clarity, most of the improvements are not limited to
wikipedias, for example the work with ascii folding, and language analysis
chains applies to all projects for a given language. When we improved how
we handled the polish language that was for all projects that use polish as
their content language. Similarly while the sister project search we are
rolling out will only be showing on wikipedias, it is explicitly about
including content from the sister projects (wiktionary, wikibooks, etc) on
the search result page to show users that there is great content available
from these sister projects.

Commons search is hard, and we will get there. We will be working closely
with the structured data team to improve searching commons with structured
data.


> Cheers,
>
> Deb
>
>
> --
> deb tankersley
> irc: debt
> Product Manager, Discovery
> Wikimedia Foundation
>
> On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 4:26 PM, Michael Maggs  wrote:
>
> > Hi
> >
> > You've mentioned searching on "Wikipedia" there. Did you mean
> "Wikimedia",
> > or are there still no Commons search improvements as yet?
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > Deborah Tankersley 
> >> 6 April 2017 at 11:15 pm
> >> tl;dr: Search continues to expand functionality by displaying more
> >> information on the search results page
> >>
> >> Ever started searching for something on Wikipedia and wondered—*really*,
> >> is
> >>
> >> that all that there is? Does it feel like you’re somehow playing hide
> and
> >> seek with all the knowledge that’s out there? And...wouldn’t it be great
> >> to
> >> see articles or categories that are similar to your search query and
> maybe
> >> some related images or links to other languages in which to read that
> >> article? Or, maybe you just want to read and contribute to projects
> other
> >> than Wikipedia but need a jump start with a few short summaries from
> >> sister
> >> projects.
> >> The Discovery Search team has been testing out some really cool new
> >> features that will enable some fun and fascinating clicking—down the
> >> rabbit
> >> hole of Wikipedia.[1] But first, let’s recap what we’ve been doing
> >> recently.
> >>
> >> We've been doing tons of work creating, updating, and finessing the
> search
> >> back end to enhance search queries. There have been many complex things
> >> that have happened, things like: adding ascii-folding and stemming,
> >> detecting when a visitor might be typing in a language that is different
> >> than the Wikipedia that they are on, switching from tf-idf to BM25,
> >> dropping trailing question marks, and updating to ElasticSearch version
> 5.
> >> [2][3][4][5][6][7] Whew!
> >>
> >> We have much more planned in the coming months—machine learning with
> >> ‘learning to rank’, investigating and deploying new language analyzers,
> >> and, after exhaustive analysis, removing quotes within queries by
> >> default.[8][9][10][11] We’ll also be working closely with the new
> >> Structured Data team in their brand new work on Commons.[12][13]
> >>
> >> We also want to improve the part that our readers and editors interface
> >> with: the search results page! We started brainstorming during the late
> >> summer of 2016 on what we could do to make search results better—to
> easily
> >> find interesting, relevant content and to create a more intuitive
> viewing
> >> experience.[14] We designed and refined numerous ideas on how to improve
> >> the search results page and received lots of good feedback from the
> >> community.[15]
> >>
> >> Empowered by the feedback, we began testing starting with a display of
> >> results from the Wikimedia sister projects next to the regular search
> >> results.[16] The idea for this test was to enable discovery into other
> >> projects—projects that our visitors might not have known about—by
> >> displaying interesting results in small snippets. The sidebar display of
> >> the sister projects borrows from a similar feature in use on the
> Italian,
> >> Catalan and French Wikipedias. We've run two A/B tests on the sister
> >> project search results with detailed analysis and, after a bit of final
> >> touches to the code, we will release the new functionality into
> production
> >> on all Wikipedias near the end of April 2017.
> >>
> >> Our next A/B test will be to add additional information and related
> >> results
> >> for each search query. This will be in the form of an ‘explore similar’
> >> link that, when someone interacts with the link, an expanded display
> will
> >> appear with related pages, categories and links to the article in other
> >> languages—all of which might lead to further knowledge discovery.[17] We
> >> know that not every search query will return exactly what folks were
> >> looking for, but we feel th

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on Discovery search efforts and upcoming releases

[Deborah Tankersley]

Hi Michael,

It's just searching on Wikipedia for now, as the Structured Data project on
Commons is just ramping up.

Cheers,

Deb


--
deb tankersley
irc: debt
Product Manager, Discovery
Wikimedia Foundation

On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 4:26 PM, Michael Maggs  wrote:

> Hi
>
> You've mentioned searching on "Wikipedia" there. Did you mean "Wikimedia",
> or are there still no Commons search improvements as yet?
>
> Michael
>
> Deborah Tankersley 
>> 6 April 2017 at 11:15 pm
>> tl;dr: Search continues to expand functionality by displaying more
>> information on the search results page
>>
>> Ever started searching for something on Wikipedia and wondered—*really*,
>> is
>>
>> that all that there is? Does it feel like you’re somehow playing hide and
>> seek with all the knowledge that’s out there? And...wouldn’t it be great
>> to
>> see articles or categories that are similar to your search query and maybe
>> some related images or links to other languages in which to read that
>> article? Or, maybe you just want to read and contribute to projects other
>> than Wikipedia but need a jump start with a few short summaries from
>> sister
>> projects.
>> The Discovery Search team has been testing out some really cool new
>> features that will enable some fun and fascinating clicking—down the
>> rabbit
>> hole of Wikipedia.[1] But first, let’s recap what we’ve been doing
>> recently.
>>
>> We've been doing tons of work creating, updating, and finessing the search
>> back end to enhance search queries. There have been many complex things
>> that have happened, things like: adding ascii-folding and stemming,
>> detecting when a visitor might be typing in a language that is different
>> than the Wikipedia that they are on, switching from tf-idf to BM25,
>> dropping trailing question marks, and updating to ElasticSearch version 5.
>> [2][3][4][5][6][7] Whew!
>>
>> We have much more planned in the coming months—machine learning with
>> ‘learning to rank’, investigating and deploying new language analyzers,
>> and, after exhaustive analysis, removing quotes within queries by
>> default.[8][9][10][11] We’ll also be working closely with the new
>> Structured Data team in their brand new work on Commons.[12][13]
>>
>> We also want to improve the part that our readers and editors interface
>> with: the search results page! We started brainstorming during the late
>> summer of 2016 on what we could do to make search results better—to easily
>> find interesting, relevant content and to create a more intuitive viewing
>> experience.[14] We designed and refined numerous ideas on how to improve
>> the search results page and received lots of good feedback from the
>> community.[15]
>>
>> Empowered by the feedback, we began testing starting with a display of
>> results from the Wikimedia sister projects next to the regular search
>> results.[16] The idea for this test was to enable discovery into other
>> projects—projects that our visitors might not have known about—by
>> displaying interesting results in small snippets. The sidebar display of
>> the sister projects borrows from a similar feature in use on the Italian,
>> Catalan and French Wikipedias. We've run two A/B tests on the sister
>> project search results with detailed analysis and, after a bit of final
>> touches to the code, we will release the new functionality into production
>> on all Wikipedias near the end of April 2017.
>>
>> Our next A/B test will be to add additional information and related
>> results
>> for each search query. This will be in the form of an ‘explore similar’
>> link that, when someone interacts with the link, an expanded display will
>> appear with related pages, categories and links to the article in other
>> languages—all of which might lead to further knowledge discovery.[17] We
>> know that not every search query will return exactly what folks were
>> looking for, but we feel that adding links to similar, but related
>> information would be helpful and, possibly, super interesting!
>>
>> We also plan on doing a few more A/B tests in the coming year:
>> * Test a new display that will show the pronunciation of a word with its
>> definition and part of speech—all from existing data in Wiktionary.
>> Initially this will be in English only.
>> * Test placing a small image (from the article) next to each search result
>> that is displayed on the page.
>> * Test an additional future using a new auto completion metadata display
>> in
>> the search box that is located on the top right of most pages in
>> Wikipedia,
>> similar to what happens on the Wikipedia.org portal.[18]
>>
>> For the more technical minded, there is a way to test out these new
>> features in your own browser. To display the sister project search
>> results,
>> it will require a bit of URL manipulation; but for the explore similar and
>> Wiktionary widget, you can modify your common.js file to test an early
>> version of the features. Detailed informati

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Let's go gender neutral

[John Erling Blad]

I believe the best way to describe people is as accurately, and neutral as
possible, following the grammatical and cultural rules within the
community, and especially to address them as they chose themselves. Note
that we use grammatical gender, we do not address people with sexual
gender.

On Fri, Apr 7, 2017 at 12:47 AM, Risker  wrote:

> Thanks, Fae, for opening this thread - and thank you everyone for
> responding so eloquently and knowledgeably.  This was a topic where I knew
> I didn't have sufficient knowledge to comment, and I have learned a lot
> from this discussion.  It's a solid example of the best traits of the
> Wikimedia family - proposal for a new idea, well-informed discussion, good
> faith assumed on everyone's part.
>
> Risker/Anne
> ___
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> 
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Let's go gender neutral

[Risker]

Thanks, Fae, for opening this thread - and thank you everyone for
responding so eloquently and knowledgeably.  This was a topic where I knew
I didn't have sufficient knowledge to comment, and I have learned a lot
from this discussion.  It's a solid example of the best traits of the
Wikimedia family - proposal for a new idea, well-informed discussion, good
faith assumed on everyone's part.

Risker/Anne
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [wikicite-discuss] Wikimedia and other 60+ organizations launch the Initiative for Open Citations (I4OC)

[Andy Mabbett]

On 6 April 2017 at 19:11, Dario Taraborelli  wrote:

> I wanted to let you know that we launched an initiative this morning called:
> Initiative for Open Citations (I4OC).

Wikipedia article here:

   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Initiative_for_Open_Citations

improvements/ additions, and translations, welcome!

-- 
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on Discovery search efforts and upcoming releases

[Michael Maggs]

Hi

You've mentioned searching on "Wikipedia" there. Did you mean 
"Wikimedia", or are there still no Commons search improvements as yet?


Michael


Deborah Tankersley 
6 April 2017 at 11:15 pm
tl;dr: Search continues to expand functionality by displaying more
information on the search results page

Ever started searching for something on Wikipedia and 
wondered—*really*, is

that all that there is? Does it feel like you’re somehow playing hide and
seek with all the knowledge that’s out there? And...wouldn’t it be 
great to

see articles or categories that are similar to your search query and maybe
some related images or links to other languages in which to read that
article? Or, maybe you just want to read and contribute to projects other
than Wikipedia but need a jump start with a few short summaries from 
sister

projects.
The Discovery Search team has been testing out some really cool new
features that will enable some fun and fascinating clicking—down the 
rabbit
hole of Wikipedia.[1] But first, let’s recap what we’ve been doing 
recently.


We've been doing tons of work creating, updating, and finessing the search
back end to enhance search queries. There have been many complex things
that have happened, things like: adding ascii-folding and stemming,
detecting when a visitor might be typing in a language that is different
than the Wikipedia that they are on, switching from tf-idf to BM25,
dropping trailing question marks, and updating to ElasticSearch version 5.
[2][3][4][5][6][7] Whew!

We have much more planned in the coming months—machine learning with
‘learning to rank’, investigating and deploying new language analyzers,
and, after exhaustive analysis, removing quotes within queries by
default.[8][9][10][11] We’ll also be working closely with the new
Structured Data team in their brand new work on Commons.[12][13]

We also want to improve the part that our readers and editors interface
with: the search results page! We started brainstorming during the late
summer of 2016 on what we could do to make search results better—to easily
find interesting, relevant content and to create a more intuitive viewing
experience.[14] We designed and refined numerous ideas on how to improve
the search results page and received lots of good feedback from the
community.[15]

Empowered by the feedback, we began testing starting with a display of
results from the Wikimedia sister projects next to the regular search
results.[16] The idea for this test was to enable discovery into other
projects—projects that our visitors might not have known about—by
displaying interesting results in small snippets. The sidebar display of
the sister projects borrows from a similar feature in use on the Italian,
Catalan and French Wikipedias. We've run two A/B tests on the sister
project search results with detailed analysis and, after a bit of final
touches to the code, we will release the new functionality into production
on all Wikipedias near the end of April 2017.

Our next A/B test will be to add additional information and related 
results

for each search query. This will be in the form of an ‘explore similar’
link that, when someone interacts with the link, an expanded display will
appear with related pages, categories and links to the article in other
languages—all of which might lead to further knowledge discovery.[17] We
know that not every search query will return exactly what folks were
looking for, but we feel that adding links to similar, but related
information would be helpful and, possibly, super interesting!

We also plan on doing a few more A/B tests in the coming year:
* Test a new display that will show the pronunciation of a word with its
definition and part of speech—all from existing data in Wiktionary.
Initially this will be in English only.
* Test placing a small image (from the article) next to each search result
that is displayed on the page.
* Test an additional future using a new auto completion metadata 
display in
the search box that is located on the top right of most pages in 
Wikipedia,

similar to what happens on the Wikipedia.org portal.[18]

For the more technical minded, there is a way to test out these new
features in your own browser. To display the sister project search 
results,

it will require a bit of URL manipulation; but for the explore similar and
Wiktionary widget, you can modify your common.js file to test an early
version of the features. Detailed information is available on
MediaWiki.org.[19]

Once the testing, analysis and feedback cycle is done for each new 
feature,

we’d like to slowly implement them into production on all Wikipedias
throughout the rest of the year. We’re really hoping that these
enhancements to how search works will further the usefulness of search and
make our readers and editors more productive.

Cheers from the Discovery Search team!

[1] https://xkcd.com/214/
[2] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:TJones_(WMF)/Notes/R

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Let's go gender neutral

[Fæ]

Thanks for raising the different language problems. I'm aware of it,
though I only edit in English.

Last weekend I was much enlightened by sitting down with a German
trans contributor, who was showing me the system language problems on
the German Wikipedia, and together we started having fun comparing
trans related policies and trans related article numbers. I was amazed
at the difference. No, that's not enough, I was really shocked that
the second largest Wikipedia that I deeply respect, is a community
that apparently has little appetite or any active discussion on these
LGBT+ issues. In comparison the English Wikipedia feels like a vibrant
and creative garden of Eden to me as an LGBT+ contributor.

By forging ahead, at least on Wikimedia Commons[1] and attempting the
same on the English Wikipedia[2], we hope to set a healthy example for
what is possible, and lay down the challenge to other projects to be
truly welcoming and feel encouraging for trans and genderqueer readers
and editors, rather than just saying that we are.

Language may be very limiting, sure, let's accept that fact of life.
It's both interesting and difficult. But it's not unimaginable that
our Wikimedia movement could end up adopting leading edge new
non-gendered terms in multiple languages for simple words like "user"
and "administrator" that currently are unnecessarily gendered. We
could even show willing by taking baby steps like just empowering our
users to set their own preferred pronoun style, like Ve or Mx, which
is entirely possible right now, today, in the MediaWiki software.
Ignoring these options, or even joking about them, is to pretend that
genderqueer people don't exist.

Yes, please flag up the issues, let's discuss the challenges. No, I
simply do not accept that by we are asking for the impossible on any
of our projects, I never shall accept it.

Links:
1. Wikimedia Commons, new draft policy created today, because of these
discussions: 
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Use_of_gender_neutral_language
2. Drafting a new English Wikipedia RFC, because of these discussions:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_LGBT_studies#Research_for_proposing_a_gender_neutral_principle_for_Wikipedia_policies_and_guidelines

Thanks,
Fae

On 6 April 2017 at 21:49, John Erling Blad  wrote:
> There are a lot of languages where there are no neutral gender, or where
> there are a single male gender, or it can even be that the only neutral
> gender is used for things and animals.
>
> In German there is an expectation of gender-correct form. In Norwegian
> there is an expectation of a neutral form. In Danish there is only
> masculine forms.
>
> Sorry but this idea is not generally usable.
>
> On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 10:37 PM, Raymond Leonard <
> raymond.f.leonard...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> One can use "one" or "one's" to substitute in many places for 3rd person
>> singular pronouns. Not everywhere, but it is in keeping with English
>> grammar.
>>
>> Peaceray
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 10:35 AM, J.  wrote:
>>
>> > Instead of:
>> > * A photographer has to be given credit when the picture is used.
>> > How about:
>> > * The artist must be given attribution when an image is reused.
>> >
>> > Cheers! Wayne Calhoon (AKA Checkingfax)
>> >
>> > ___
>> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
>> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> > 
>> >
>> ___
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>> wiki/Wikimedia-l
>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> 
>>
> ___
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> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and 
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 
> 



-- 
fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
Personal and confidential, please do not circulate or re-quote.

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[Wikimedia-l] Update on Discovery search efforts and upcoming releases

[Deborah Tankersley]

tl;dr: Search continues to expand functionality by displaying more
information on the search results page

Ever started searching for something on Wikipedia and wondered—*really*, is
that all that there is? Does it feel like you’re somehow playing hide and
seek with all the knowledge that’s out there? And...wouldn’t it be great to
see articles or categories that are similar to your search query and maybe
some related images or links to other languages in which to read that
article? Or, maybe you just want to read and contribute to projects other
than Wikipedia but need a jump start with a few short summaries from sister
projects.
The Discovery Search team has been testing out some really cool new
features that will enable some fun and fascinating clicking—down the rabbit
hole of Wikipedia.[1] But first, let’s recap what we’ve been doing recently.

We've been doing tons of work creating, updating, and finessing the search
back end to enhance search queries. There have been many complex things
that have happened, things like: adding ascii-folding and stemming,
detecting when a visitor might be typing in a language that is different
 than the Wikipedia that they are on, switching from tf-idf to BM25,
dropping trailing question marks, and updating to ElasticSearch version 5.
[2][3][4][5][6][7] Whew!

We have much more planned in the coming months—machine learning with
‘learning to rank’, investigating and deploying new language analyzers,
and, after exhaustive analysis, removing quotes within queries by
default.[8][9][10][11] We’ll also be working closely with the new
Structured Data team in their brand new work on Commons.[12][13]

We also want to improve the part that our readers and editors interface
with: the search results page! We started brainstorming during the late
summer of 2016 on what we could do to make search results better—to easily
find interesting, relevant content and to create a more intuitive viewing
experience.[14] We designed and refined numerous ideas on how to improve
the search results page and received lots of good feedback from the
community.[15]

Empowered by the feedback, we began testing starting with a display of
results from the Wikimedia sister projects next to the regular search
results.[16] The idea for this test was to enable discovery into other
projects—projects that our visitors might not have known about—by
displaying interesting results in small snippets. The sidebar display of
the sister projects borrows from a similar feature in use on the Italian,
Catalan and French Wikipedias. We've run two A/B tests on the sister
project search results with detailed analysis and, after a bit of final
touches to the code, we will release the new functionality into production
on all Wikipedias near the end of April 2017.

Our next A/B test will be to add additional information and related results
for each search query. This will be in the form of an ‘explore similar’
link that, when someone interacts with the link, an expanded display will
appear with related pages, categories and links to the article in other
languages—all of which might lead to further knowledge discovery.[17] We
know that not every search query will return exactly what folks were
looking for, but we feel that adding links to similar, but related
information would be helpful and, possibly, super interesting!

We also plan on doing a few more A/B tests in the coming year:
* Test a new display that will show the pronunciation of a word with its
definition and part of speech—all from existing data in Wiktionary.
Initially this will be in English only.
* Test placing a small image (from the article) next to each search result
that is displayed on the page.
* Test an additional future using a new auto completion metadata display in
the search box that is located on the top right of most pages in Wikipedia,
similar to what happens on the Wikipedia.org portal.[18]

For the more technical minded, there is a way to test out these new
features in your own browser. To display the sister project search results,
it will require a bit of URL manipulation; but for the explore similar and
Wiktionary widget, you can modify your common.js file to test an early
version of the features. Detailed information is available on
MediaWiki.org.[19]

Once the testing, analysis and feedback cycle is done for each new feature,
we’d like to slowly implement them into production on all Wikipedias
throughout the rest of the year. We’re really hoping that these
enhancements to how search works will further the usefulness of search and
make our readers and editors more productive.

Cheers from the Discovery Search team!

[1] https://xkcd.com/214/
[2] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:TJones_(WMF)/Notes/R
e-Ordering_Stemming_and_Ascii-Folding_on_English_Wikipedia
[3] https://blog.wikimedia.org/2016/07/27/wikipedia-language-search/
[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tf%E2%80%93idf
[5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Okapi_BM25
[6]​ ​https://www.mediawi

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Let's go gender neutral

[John Erling Blad]

Sorry to people from Bergen, girls from Bergen is masculine - "jenten". I
wonder if we can blame that on the Germans, "mädchen" is neutrum, perhaps
they messed up the local language during the Hansa-period.

On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 10:49 PM, John Erling Blad  wrote:

> There are a lot of languages where there are no neutral gender, or where
> there are a single male gender, or it can even be that the only neutral
> gender is used for things and animals.
>
> In German there is an expectation of gender-correct form. In Norwegian
> there is an expectation of a neutral form. In Danish there is only
> masculine forms.
>
> Sorry but this idea is not generally usable.
>
> On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 10:37 PM, Raymond Leonard <
> raymond.f.leonard...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> One can use "one" or "one's" to substitute in many places for 3rd person
>> singular pronouns. Not everywhere, but it is in keeping with English
>> grammar.
>>
>> Peaceray
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 10:35 AM, J.  wrote:
>>
>> > Instead of:
>> > * A photographer has to be given credit when the picture is used.
>> > How about:
>> > * The artist must be given attribution when an image is reused.
>> >
>> > Cheers! Wayne Calhoon (AKA Checkingfax)
>> >
>> > ___
>> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
>> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> > 
>> >
>> ___
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik
>> i/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik
>> i/Wikimedia-l
>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> 
>>
>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Let's go gender neutral

[John Erling Blad]

There are a lot of languages where there are no neutral gender, or where
there are a single male gender, or it can even be that the only neutral
gender is used for things and animals.

In German there is an expectation of gender-correct form. In Norwegian
there is an expectation of a neutral form. In Danish there is only
masculine forms.

Sorry but this idea is not generally usable.

On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 10:37 PM, Raymond Leonard <
raymond.f.leonard...@gmail.com> wrote:

> One can use "one" or "one's" to substitute in many places for 3rd person
> singular pronouns. Not everywhere, but it is in keeping with English
> grammar.
>
> Peaceray
>
> On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 10:35 AM, J.  wrote:
>
> > Instead of:
> > * A photographer has to be given credit when the picture is used.
> > How about:
> > * The artist must be given attribution when an image is reused.
> >
> > Cheers! Wayne Calhoon (AKA Checkingfax)
> >
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
> >
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Let's go gender neutral

[Raymond Leonard]

One can use "one" or "one's" to substitute in many places for 3rd person
singular pronouns. Not everywhere, but it is in keeping with English
grammar.

Peaceray

On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 10:35 AM, J.  wrote:

> Instead of:
> * A photographer has to be given credit when the picture is used.
> How about:
> * The artist must be given attribution when an image is reused.
>
> Cheers! Wayne Calhoon (AKA Checkingfax)
>
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2017 versus movement strategy

[Yaroslav Blanter]

The backside seems to be that those who have been to the conference feel no
incentive to participate in the strategy discussions in the projects, and
these discussions show up as major disappointment (like those on the
English Wikipedia or Wikidata) or do not really interest anybody (at the
Russian Wikivoyage, we compiled a large document, which will likely be
translated to English, moved to Meta and forgotten). Which technically
means that this time, the individual contributors are excluded from
building up the strategy, unless they can do it via chapters and thematic
organizations.

Cheers
Yaroslav

On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 8:35 PM, Tanel Pern  wrote:

> Just to add to this as someone who (also) was at the conference and
> participated in a few of the strategy track sessions, it would have been
> basically impossible to provide any more information than the conference
> website already provides about what took place at this session beforehand,
> given the extremely open-ended nature of the discussions. Just as outlined
> in the session overview [1], the participants started from basically
> nothing (other than their ideas of what's going to be important in the next
> 15 years) and ended up formulating a few dozen thematic statements
> regarding the strategic direction of the movement. Frankly, I'm amazed it
> worked as well as it did. At the same time, I'm not at all amazed that it
> would take time to digitize the materials, given how many people
> participated in the session and how much paper they consumed :) And though
> it wouldn't be difficult to publish the final thematic statements, some of
> them unfortunately don't make sense without some background materials.
>
> Just my €0.02,
>
> Tanel
>
>
> [1]
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Conference_
> 2017/Program#Movement_Strategy
>
> 2017-04-06 16:42 GMT+03:00 Guillaume Paumier :
>
> > Hello Hajdu,
> >
> > As Chris mentioned, there is a lot of documentation coming from the
> > Wikimedia conference in Berlin. In fact, there is so much
> > documentation that it's going to take the team a few days to digitize
> > and publish everything. You can see some of the notes from related
> > discussions, for example:
> >
> > * The notes from a discussion about movement strategy by contributors
> > from Wikimedia Commons:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_
> > movement/2017/Sources/Commons_in-person_discussion_at_the_
> > Wikimedia_Conference
> >
> > * The notes from a discussion about movement strategy by the Wikimedia
> > Foundation's Board of Trustees:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_
> movement/2017/Sources/
> > Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_of_Trustees_-_Discussion_at_the_
> > Wikimedia_Conference
> >
> > The rest of the notes, photos, summaries, etc. will be published this
> > week or the next. There was nothing confidential about the sessions,
> > and many participants have shared their work and sessions on Commons (
> > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikimedia_Conference_2017
> > ) and on social media (
> > https://twitter.com/search?q=wmcon%20strategy&src=typd ).
> >
> > I hope that this reassures you and gives you some materials to look
> > over until we upload everything else.
> >
> >
> > 2017-04-05 0:12 GMT-07:00 Hajdu Kálmán :
> > >
> > > Hi, There is a very active campaign for strategic conversation defining
> > the
> > > future role of Wikimedia in the world. In the last weekend has been
> hold
> > the
> > > Wikimedia Conference 2017
> > > in Berlin. On this conference was a spacial group organized from
> > > Representatives
> > > for the Movement Strategy Track. I paid great attention the conference
> > > program, but unlike the former practice on the conference page on the
> > meta
> > > was not e bit information about what happened in this section. No
> > Ethernet,
> > > no abstract of presentation, nothing.
> > >
> > > I don't understand the new policy of organizers, that the conference
> out
> > of
> > > the ordinary way was hold in totally confidential or secret wise. My
> > > question this should bee the new Wikimedia strategy?
> > >
> > > Texaner
> > > --
> > > Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > 
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Guillaume Paumier
> >
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikime

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2017 versus movement strategy

[Tanel Pern]

Just to add to this as someone who (also) was at the conference and
participated in a few of the strategy track sessions, it would have been
basically impossible to provide any more information than the conference
website already provides about what took place at this session beforehand,
given the extremely open-ended nature of the discussions. Just as outlined
in the session overview [1], the participants started from basically
nothing (other than their ideas of what's going to be important in the next
15 years) and ended up formulating a few dozen thematic statements
regarding the strategic direction of the movement. Frankly, I'm amazed it
worked as well as it did. At the same time, I'm not at all amazed that it
would take time to digitize the materials, given how many people
participated in the session and how much paper they consumed :) And though
it wouldn't be difficult to publish the final thematic statements, some of
them unfortunately don't make sense without some background materials.

Just my €0.02,

Tanel


[1]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Conference_2017/Program#Movement_Strategy

2017-04-06 16:42 GMT+03:00 Guillaume Paumier :

> Hello Hajdu,
>
> As Chris mentioned, there is a lot of documentation coming from the
> Wikimedia conference in Berlin. In fact, there is so much
> documentation that it's going to take the team a few days to digitize
> and publish everything. You can see some of the notes from related
> discussions, for example:
>
> * The notes from a discussion about movement strategy by contributors
> from Wikimedia Commons:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_
> movement/2017/Sources/Commons_in-person_discussion_at_the_
> Wikimedia_Conference
>
> * The notes from a discussion about movement strategy by the Wikimedia
> Foundation's Board of Trustees:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2017/Sources/
> Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_of_Trustees_-_Discussion_at_the_
> Wikimedia_Conference
>
> The rest of the notes, photos, summaries, etc. will be published this
> week or the next. There was nothing confidential about the sessions,
> and many participants have shared their work and sessions on Commons (
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikimedia_Conference_2017
> ) and on social media (
> https://twitter.com/search?q=wmcon%20strategy&src=typd ).
>
> I hope that this reassures you and gives you some materials to look
> over until we upload everything else.
>
>
> 2017-04-05 0:12 GMT-07:00 Hajdu Kálmán :
> >
> > Hi, There is a very active campaign for strategic conversation defining
> the
> > future role of Wikimedia in the world. In the last weekend has been hold
> the
> > Wikimedia Conference 2017
> > in Berlin. On this conference was a spacial group organized from
> > Representatives
> > for the Movement Strategy Track. I paid great attention the conference
> > program, but unlike the former practice on the conference page on the
> meta
> > was not e bit information about what happened in this section. No
> Ethernet,
> > no abstract of presentation, nothing.
> >
> > I don't understand the new policy of organizers, that the conference out
> of
> > the ordinary way was hold in totally confidential or secret wise. My
> > question this should bee the new Wikimedia strategy?
> >
> > Texaner
> > --
> > Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
> >
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
>
>
>
> --
> Guillaume Paumier
>
> ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia and other 60+ organizations launch the Initiative for Open Citations (I4OC)

[Victoria Coleman]

Dario and team,

this is a terrific achievement. Proud to see the Foundation create transparency 
in citation data!

All the best,

Victoria
> On Apr 6, 2017, at 11:11 AM, Dario Taraborelli  
> wrote:
> 
> Hey all,
> 
> I wanted to let you know that we launched an initiative this morning
> called: Initiative for Open Citations  (I4OC).
> 
> Prior to the launch of I4OC, only 1% of scholarly papers made citation data
> available in the open. Today, that number has jumped to 40%. We're proud to
> make a growing piece of fundamental data for open knowledge available to
> everyone, with no copyright restriction whatsoever.
> 
> The I4OC has been in the making for the past 6 months, with lots of
> individual discussions with scholarly publishers, asking them to flip the
> switch and release this data. Wikimedia Deutschland, Wikimedia UK, the Wiki
> Edu Foundation, the Internet Archive, Mozilla, PLOS and many other open
> knowledge and open data organizations are among the official endorsers of
> the initiative.
> 
> You can read more about this initiative on a post
>  we
> published this morning on the Wikimedia Blog, on the joint press release
> , or follow @i4oc_org
>  for more updates.
> 
> Best,
> Dario
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> *Dario Taraborelli  *Director, Head of Research, Wikimedia Foundation
> wikimediafoundation.org • nitens.org • @readermeter
> 
> ___
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> 


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[Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia and other 60+ organizations launch the Initiative for Open Citations (I4OC)

[Dario Taraborelli]

Hey all,

I wanted to let you know that we launched an initiative this morning
called: Initiative for Open Citations  (I4OC).

Prior to the launch of I4OC, only 1% of scholarly papers made citation data
available in the open. Today, that number has jumped to 40%. We're proud to
make a growing piece of fundamental data for open knowledge available to
everyone, with no copyright restriction whatsoever.

The I4OC has been in the making for the past 6 months, with lots of
individual discussions with scholarly publishers, asking them to flip the
switch and release this data. Wikimedia Deutschland, Wikimedia UK, the Wiki
Edu Foundation, the Internet Archive, Mozilla, PLOS and many other open
knowledge and open data organizations are among the official endorsers of
the initiative.

You can read more about this initiative on a post
 we
published this morning on the Wikimedia Blog, on the joint press release
, or follow @i4oc_org
 for more updates.

Best,
Dario



-- 

*Dario Taraborelli  *Director, Head of Research, Wikimedia Foundation
wikimediafoundation.org • nitens.org • @readermeter

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Let's go gender neutral

[J.]

Instead of:
* A photographer has to be given credit when the picture is used.
How about:
* The artist must be given attribution when an image is reused.

Cheers! Wayne Calhoon (AKA Checkingfax)

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Let's go gender neutral

[Pax Ahimsa Gethen]

I support rewriting sentences rather than using "singular they" if it's 
straightforward enough to do so, as in Gerard's example. But yes, there 
are people, including myself, who are neither men nor women, and using 
gendered language like "he or she" leaves us out.


And yes, in English "you" is used to address both an individual and a 
group, though in the latter case often a clarification such as "you all" 
is added. We no longer use "thee" and "thou", so language usage does adapt.


- Pax aka Funcrunch


On 4/6/17 9:51 AM, Marco Chiesa wrote:

I kinda second this, as a non native speaker the singular they sounds
awkward/confusing/wrong/whatever. Maybe something like "the person's"
(I hope everyone would self-recognize in this), "one's own", no
adjective at all. It's a bit hard for me to understand that some
person does not self recognize in either "he" or "she", but in the end
it's always good to learn something new, and if something can be done
to make everyone feel welcome, let's try it.
By the way, I guess a few centuries ago the "singular you" would have
sounded strange as well...

Marco

On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 6:04 PM, Gerard Meijssen
 wrote:

Hoi,
As a non native English speaker, I positively hate this. When you want to
say that a picture of a photographer whatever, you do not have to say "his
or her", it suffices to say "when a picture of a photographer is to be
used, prior permission has to be asked" or whatever.

Yes, it may please you but this practise is not taught in schools and given
the size of the non-native community ... don't do this
Thanks,
 GerardM



--
Pax Ahimsa Gethen | p...@funcrunch.org | http://funcrunch.org


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Let's go gender neutral

[Marco Chiesa]

I kinda second this, as a non native speaker the singular they sounds
awkward/confusing/wrong/whatever. Maybe something like "the person's"
(I hope everyone would self-recognize in this), "one's own", no
adjective at all. It's a bit hard for me to understand that some
person does not self recognize in either "he" or "she", but in the end
it's always good to learn something new, and if something can be done
to make everyone feel welcome, let's try it.
By the way, I guess a few centuries ago the "singular you" would have
sounded strange as well...

Marco

On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 6:04 PM, Gerard Meijssen
 wrote:
> Hoi,
> As a non native English speaker, I positively hate this. When you want to
> say that a picture of a photographer whatever, you do not have to say "his
> or her", it suffices to say "when a picture of a photographer is to be
> used, prior permission has to be asked" or whatever.
>
> Yes, it may please you but this practise is not taught in schools and given
> the size of the non-native community ... don't do this
> Thanks,
> GerardM
>

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Let's go gender neutral

[Gerard Meijssen]

Hoi,
As a non native English speaker, I positively hate this. When you want to
say that a picture of a photographer whatever, you do not have to say "his
or her", it suffices to say "when a picture of a photographer is to be
used, prior permission has to be asked" or whatever.

Yes, it may please you but this practise is not taught in schools and given
the size of the non-native community ... don't do this
Thanks,
GerardM

On 6 April 2017 at 13:30, Antoine Musso  wrote:

> Le 05/04/2017 à 12:52, Fæ a écrit :
> >  I'm taking that further by
> > proposing that we stick to a neutral gender for all our policies and
> > help pages. In practice this means that policies avoid using "he or
> > she" and stick to "they" or avoid using a pronoun at all.
>
> As a non native English speaker the use of a plural form definitely
> confuses me or at best.  The example takes a sentence from Commons:FAQ
> which roughly looks like:
>
> A photographer has to be given credit when his or her picture is used.
>
> With the proposal to instead:
>
> A photographer has to be given credit when their picture is used.
>
> Why isn't "picture" plural as well?  If using masculine as a neutral
> pronoum is the issue, just stop using the pronoum entirely. Eg one can
> instead write:
>
> A photographer has to be given credit when the picture is used.
>
>
> That is going to be quite a challenge when ported to other languages.
> For 'A photographer', the english indefinite article is gender less.
>
> In french that would be either 'un' (masculine) or 'une' (feminine).
> What some are advocating is using:
>
>   Un/une photographe
>
> If the noun varies as well, that becomes messy. Here for 'administrateur':
>
>  Un/une adminstra-teur-trice
>
> That is not solvable in french and all other latin based languages most
> probably have the same issue (blame Rome!).
>
>
> --
> Antoine "hashar" Musso
>
>
> ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2017 versus movement strategy

[Guillaume Paumier]

Hello Hajdu,

As Chris mentioned, there is a lot of documentation coming from the
Wikimedia conference in Berlin. In fact, there is so much
documentation that it's going to take the team a few days to digitize
and publish everything. You can see some of the notes from related
discussions, for example:

* The notes from a discussion about movement strategy by contributors
from Wikimedia Commons:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2017/Sources/Commons_in-person_discussion_at_the_Wikimedia_Conference

* The notes from a discussion about movement strategy by the Wikimedia
Foundation's Board of Trustees:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2017/Sources/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_of_Trustees_-_Discussion_at_the_Wikimedia_Conference

The rest of the notes, photos, summaries, etc. will be published this
week or the next. There was nothing confidential about the sessions,
and many participants have shared their work and sessions on Commons (
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikimedia_Conference_2017
) and on social media (
https://twitter.com/search?q=wmcon%20strategy&src=typd ).

I hope that this reassures you and gives you some materials to look
over until we upload everything else.


2017-04-05 0:12 GMT-07:00 Hajdu Kálmán :
>
> Hi, There is a very active campaign for strategic conversation defining the
> future role of Wikimedia in the world. In the last weekend has been hold the
> Wikimedia Conference 2017
> in Berlin. On this conference was a spacial group organized from
> Representatives
> for the Movement Strategy Track. I paid great attention the conference
> program, but unlike the former practice on the conference page on the meta
> was not e bit information about what happened in this section. No Ethernet,
> no abstract of presentation, nothing.
>
> I don't understand the new policy of organizers, that the conference out of
> the ordinary way was hold in totally confidential or secret wise. My
> question this should bee the new Wikimedia strategy?
>
> Texaner
> --
> Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
>
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 



-- 
Guillaume Paumier

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2017 versus movement strategy

[Chris Keating]

Hi Texaner,

I don't think everything that WMCON is meant to be a secret!  I expect/hope
that we'll be hearing more about the WMCON strategy discussions quite soon
- after all, WMF is being very proactive about communicating what's going
on with the strategy.

I can imagine that it takes a little while to take workshop session outputs
and turn them into something that can be usefully emailed around or posted
on Meta.

Regards,

Chris
(User:The Land)

On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 8:12 AM, Hajdu Kálmán  wrote:

>
> Hi, There is a very active campaign for strategic conversation defining
> the future role of Wikimedia in the world. In the last weekend has been
> hold the Wikimedia Conference 2017
> in Berlin. On this conference was a spacial group organized from
> Representatives
> for the Movement Strategy Track. I paid great attention the conference
> program, but unlike the former practice on the conference page on the meta
> was not e bit information about what happened in this section. No Ethernet,
> no abstract of presentation, nothing.
>
> I don't understand the new policy of organizers, that the conference out
> of the ordinary way was hold in totally confidential or secret wise. My
> question this should bee the new Wikimedia strategy?
>
> Texaner
> --
> Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
>
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik
> i/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Let's go gender neutral

[Fæ]

Thanks for the examples from French and I'm sure that our experienced
translators will have in mind specific best practice guides to turn
to. I like your illustration of "un/une adminstra-teur-trice" to show
the challenges. The use of "singular they" remains uncomfortable for
many English readers, but it has become a recommended standard for
journalists writing in English.[1]

Once the principle of gender neutrality is agreed, I just don't know
what our next steps will turn out to be for non-English versions.
However I am much encouraged by the positive views on Commons, and I'm
hopeful we can, and should, find a way to set a better example for our
fellow projects in our aim to feel welcoming for all contributors. :-)

Links
1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they

Thanks
Fae
Wikimedia LGBT+

On 6 April 2017 at 12:30, Antoine Musso  wrote:
> Le 05/04/2017 à 12:52, Fæ a écrit :
>>  I'm taking that further by
>> proposing that we stick to a neutral gender for all our policies and
>> help pages. In practice this means that policies avoid using "he or
>> she" and stick to "they" or avoid using a pronoun at all.
>
> As a non native English speaker the use of a plural form definitely
> confuses me or at best.  The example takes a sentence from Commons:FAQ
> which roughly looks like:
>
> A photographer has to be given credit when his or her picture is used.
>
> With the proposal to instead:
>
> A photographer has to be given credit when their picture is used.
>
> Why isn't "picture" plural as well?  If using masculine as a neutral
> pronoum is the issue, just stop using the pronoum entirely. Eg one can
> instead write:
>
> A photographer has to be given credit when the picture is used.
>
>
> That is going to be quite a challenge when ported to other languages.
> For 'A photographer', the english indefinite article is gender less.
>
> In french that would be either 'un' (masculine) or 'une' (feminine).
> What some are advocating is using:
>
>   Un/une photographe
>
> If the noun varies as well, that becomes messy. Here for 'administrateur':
>
>  Un/une adminstra-teur-trice
>
> That is not solvable in french and all other latin based languages most
> probably have the same issue (blame Rome!).
>
>
> --
> Antoine "hashar" Musso

-- 
fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Appointment of new Affiliations Committee advisors

[Samuele Mantani]

Congratulations ;)

Samuele

Il 03/Apr/2017 10:27 PM, "Kirill Lokshin"  ha
scritto:

> Hi everyone,
>
> I'm very pleased to announce that the Affiliations Committee has appointed
> three new advisors for the coming year: Anasuya Sengupta, Patricio Lorente,
> and Ting Chen.  As non-voting advisors, Anasuya, Patricio, and Ting will
> lend their unique experience and insight to the committee as we support the
> ongoing movement strategy process and the continuing evolution of the
> Wikimedia affiliate ecosystem.
>
> Please join me in welcoming Anasuya, Patricio, and Ting to their new roles!
>
> Kirill Lokshin
> Chair, Affiliations Committee
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[Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2017 versus movement strategy

[Hajdu Kálmán]

Hi, There is a very active campaign for strategic conversation defining  
the future role of Wikimedia in the world. In the last weekend has been  
hold the Wikimedia Conference 2017
in Berlin. On this conference was a spacial group organized from  
Representatives
for the Movement Strategy Track. I paid great attention the conference  
program, but unlike the former practice on the conference page on the meta  
was not e bit information about what happened in this section. No  
Ethernet, no abstract of presentation, nothing.


I don't understand the new policy of organizers, that the conference out  
of the ordinary way was hold in totally confidential or secret wise. My  
question this should bee the new Wikimedia strategy?


Texaner
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Appointment of new Affiliations Committee advisors

[Subhashish Panigrahi]

Congratulations Anasuya, Patricio and Ting. So great to see you all again
in different avatars. :)

Subhashish

On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 2:03 PM, Isla Haddow-Flood 
wrote:

> Brilliant news!! The best of the best!
>
> On 4 April 2017 at 21:26, Anna Torres  wrote:
>
> > Congrats to all the new advisors!!! :)
> >
> > 2017-04-04 16:13 GMT-03:00 Michał Buczyński :
> >
> > > Let me join the best wishes and write it is great to see you three
> > around,
> > > sharing your experience and insight in the Movement!Best,  michał.
> > > Dnia 3 kwietnia 2017 23:10 Pierre-Selim  gt;
> > > napisał(a):  \o/ quite happy to see people with such experience joining
> > the
> > > affcom as  advisors.   2017-04-03 22:56 GMT+02:00 Tito Dutta &
> > > lt;trulyt...@gmail.com>:   Welcome, Anasuya di, Patricio, and Ting
> > and
> > > all the best. :)   On 4 April 2017 at 01:57, Kirill Lokshin &
> > > lt;kirill.loks...@gmail.com> wrote:   > Hi everyone,  >  >
> > > I'm very pleased to announce that the Affiliations Committee has
> > > appointed  > three new advisors for the coming year: Anasuya
> Sengupta,
> > > Patricio  Lorente,  > and Ting Chen.  As non-voting advisors,
> Anasuya,
> > > Patricio, and Ting will  > lend their unique experience and insight
> to
> > > the committee as we support  the  > ongoing movement strategy
> process
> > > and the continuing evolution of the  > Wikimedia affiliate
> ecosystem.
> > > >  > Please join me in welcoming Anasuya, Patricio, and Ting to
> > their
> > > new  roles!  >  > Kirill Lokshin  > Chair, Affiliations
> > Committee
> > > ___
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
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> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > 
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Anna Torres Adell
> > Directora Ejecutiva
> > *A.C. Wikimedia Argentina*
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> >
>
>
>
> --
> Isla Haddow-Flood
> skype: islahaddow
> twitter: @havingaflood
> instgram:   islig
> Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Islahaddow
> Linked in:  http://za.linkedin.com/pub/isla-haddow-flood
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Let's go gender neutral

[Antoine Musso]

Le 05/04/2017 à 12:52, Fæ a écrit :
>  I'm taking that further by
> proposing that we stick to a neutral gender for all our policies and
> help pages. In practice this means that policies avoid using "he or
> she" and stick to "they" or avoid using a pronoun at all. 

As a non native English speaker the use of a plural form definitely
confuses me or at best.  The example takes a sentence from Commons:FAQ
which roughly looks like:

A photographer has to be given credit when his or her picture is used.

With the proposal to instead:

A photographer has to be given credit when their picture is used.

Why isn't "picture" plural as well?  If using masculine as a neutral
pronoum is the issue, just stop using the pronoum entirely. Eg one can
instead write:

A photographer has to be given credit when the picture is used.


That is going to be quite a challenge when ported to other languages.
For 'A photographer', the english indefinite article is gender less.

In french that would be either 'un' (masculine) or 'une' (feminine).
What some are advocating is using:

  Un/une photographe

If the noun varies as well, that becomes messy. Here for 'administrateur':

 Un/une adminstra-teur-trice

That is not solvable in french and all other latin based languages most
probably have the same issue (blame Rome!).


-- 
Antoine "hashar" Musso


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Let's go gender neutral

[Fæ]

Hi Laura,

Thanks for the correction and the information. As you spotted I am
clueless in other languages, I just happened to pick up the Huffington
article but I did not think about perspectives such as the potential
for bias to American Spanish; it seems obvious now you have pointed it
out. Consider the example dropped. :-)

100% agree that the discussion and choices of how to handle gender
neutral guidelines in different languages is for /those language
communities/, with all of their lovely variety and complexity, not the
English speaking/writing community on our projects applying a solution
by majority blunt force.

In the example of Commons, the project is multilingual, however our
policy pages have an agreed default of being written and maintained in
English, with versions in other languages based upon that English
baseline. The proposal I put forward on the Commons Village pump
recognizes this critical limitation, and I wrote a clarification in
the discussion there:

"The question of non-English translation is a separate issue. I did
have some discussions with German and Spanish speakers over the
weekend about precisely the issue of handling gendered languages and
their default bias to male forms. These questions are for those
language communities to reach a consensus on and is a technical
translation and cultural issue. This proposal is focused on our
default policy language of English, I recognize that moving to a more
gender neutral form for other languages is much harder, but that is
not a reason for our community to avoid showing leadership within our
Wikimedia projects, and we should forge ahead where it is possible and
reasonable to do so. I'd even say this is worth a little 'discomfort'
in order to adopt modern best practices and take positive steps to
feel more welcoming for women, trans and genderqueer future
contributors."

By the way, if the Commons proposal succeeds, which appears likely, it
would be great if specific community discussions about how, or
whether, it can be implemented in various language versions. It should
not be turned into a big deal, as the number of policy or help pages
affected is small and the changes will be modest. However I don't know
the best way of going about this, and I hope that those with a passion
for having sensible discussions about gender neutral prose in their
favorite languages will take a lead. It's a knotty complex area, but
I'm hoping we can foster a pattern respectful discussions so everyone
feels their voice is heard and they are welcome to participate,
especially those with a trans or genderqueer experience for whom this
may feel like a highly personal discussion.

Thanks,
Fae


On 6 April 2017 at 08:59, Laura Hale  wrote:
> Hi Fae,
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 12:52 PM, Fæ  wrote:
>
>> * https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Village_pump#
>> Defaulting_to_gender_neutral_language_in_the_Commons_namespace
>>
>> 1. "Latinx" is a reaction against using gendered forms Latino and
>> Latina, in a language that has no neutral gender. This is becoming an
>> accepted practice in related forums and academic publications.
>> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/why-people-are-using-
>> the-term-latinx_us_57753328e4b0cc0fa136a159
>>
>>
> I don't know how familiar you are with language politics, but you're 100%
> factually incorrect here when saying that Spanish has no gender neutral.
> It does have gender neutral, and I can have full conversations about my
> spouse in Spanish without giving away the gender of the spouse.  Your
> comment appears to be based on a lack of understanding of how gender works
> in Spanish, and it is not helpful as a result as comments like this
> suppress the voices of linguistic minorities and already marginalized
> groups.
>
> Beyond that, how people gender neutral certain gendered words in Spanish
> can be very culture specific. The link to the Huffington Post is clearly an
> American Spanish perspective, and there is a huge debate in various Spanish
> language communities about US Spanish.  It is not a standard form of
> Spanish, and there are discussions about if American Spanish will become
> its own linguistically distinct language in the next decade or so, as a
> sort of English/Spanish combination.  Trying to impose American Spanish on
> other Spanish speakers would be grossly offensive given these linguistic
> issues.  I don't think you'd appreciate Jamaican English being imposed on
> you, and your handling of gendered language issues in English.  I also
> don't think you'd appreciate having Germans with little to no grasp of
> English trying to impose on you standards of use of English.  I'd suggest
> reading some of the materials published by LGBT organizations in Spanish
> speaking countries.
> http://www.felgtb.org/rs/1232/d112d6ad-54ec-438b-9358-4483f9e98868/05d/fd/1/filename/guia-diversidad-ccoo.pdf
> is one of them.
> http://www.uab.cat/Document/964/953/Guia_uso_no_sexista_lenguaje2,0.pdf is
> a guide by 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Let's go gender neutral

[Laura Hale]

Hi Fae,



On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 12:52 PM, Fæ  wrote:

> * https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Village_pump#
> Defaulting_to_gender_neutral_language_in_the_Commons_namespace
>
> 1. "Latinx" is a reaction against using gendered forms Latino and
> Latina, in a language that has no neutral gender. This is becoming an
> accepted practice in related forums and academic publications.
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/why-people-are-using-
> the-term-latinx_us_57753328e4b0cc0fa136a159
>
>
I don't know how familiar you are with language politics, but you're 100%
factually incorrect here when saying that Spanish has no gender neutral.
It does have gender neutral, and I can have full conversations about my
spouse in Spanish without giving away the gender of the spouse.  Your
comment appears to be based on a lack of understanding of how gender works
in Spanish, and it is not helpful as a result as comments like this
suppress the voices of linguistic minorities and already marginalized
groups.

Beyond that, how people gender neutral certain gendered words in Spanish
can be very culture specific. The link to the Huffington Post is clearly an
American Spanish perspective, and there is a huge debate in various Spanish
language communities about US Spanish.  It is not a standard form of
Spanish, and there are discussions about if American Spanish will become
its own linguistically distinct language in the next decade or so, as a
sort of English/Spanish combination.  Trying to impose American Spanish on
other Spanish speakers would be grossly offensive given these linguistic
issues.  I don't think you'd appreciate Jamaican English being imposed on
you, and your handling of gendered language issues in English.  I also
don't think you'd appreciate having Germans with little to no grasp of
English trying to impose on you standards of use of English.  I'd suggest
reading some of the materials published by LGBT organizations in Spanish
speaking countries.
http://www.felgtb.org/rs/1232/d112d6ad-54ec-438b-9358-4483f9e98868/05d/fd/1/filename/guia-diversidad-ccoo.pdf
is one of them.
http://www.uab.cat/Document/964/953/Guia_uso_no_sexista_lenguaje2,0.pdf is
a guide by a university in Barcelona in how to use gender neutral language
in Spain.

Rather than have a group of non-Spanish speaking men with little knowledge
of the Spanish language and less knowledge of the cultural issues facing
the LGBT community in the countries where Spanish is the dominant language
try to justify their interference into linguistic debates for which they
are ill equipped to participate and where they are not the discriminated
against group (because my understanding is that and most of the other men
involved in this discussion are CIS gendered men), why don't you reach out
to WikiMujeres? This is a Wikimedia user group of Spanish speaking women
found at http://wikimujeres.wiki/ .  This group actively discusses these
issues in Spanish and on Wikimedia projects. They have good working
relationships with chapters and can push towards more inclusive Spanish
language usage on Wikimedia Commons much more effectively than you can
given their contacts and fluency in the language.

I am on their mailing list.  If you're actually invested in this issue,
beyond linking to an linguistically dubious article that doesn't reflect
the broader picture of Spanish and making factually incorrect statements,
I'd be happy to reach out to the women I know in WikiMujeres to see what
opportunities there are for Wikimedia LGBT to work with WikiMujeres to
address this issue.  WikiMujeres also has regular edit-a-thons on Mondays
in Madrid when MediaLab Prado is open.  If you're keen to take this
further, I can see about getting you (or any other member of this group) an
invitation to one of these sessions to discuss this issue and how to
resolve it.  (I know they were present in Berlin.  Did you have a chance to
speak with them?)


And as WorldPride is taking place in Madrid this year, doing Spanish
language activities here with the local Spanish groups might be something
seriously worth considering to take advantage.


Sincerely,
Laura Hale




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