How about POE on Rucus.
Steve
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 12:36 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Indoor Access Points
Jack, Yes.
They use multi-element /
Zoneflex AP's are PoE 802.3af compliant. You can also use an AC adapter.
Steve if your interested in a quote hit me offlist
Daniel White
3-dB Networks
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Steve Barnes
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 4:44
Responses inline.
Patrick Shoemaker
Vector Data Systems LLC
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
office: (301) 358-1690 x36
http://www.vectordatasystems.com
Kevin Suitor wrote:
Folks,
Just would like to run an informal poll to determine the market for
Fixed White Spaces devices over the next 2 - 3
The Zoneflex 2942 (G) 7942 (N) units support POE.
Faisal Imtiaz
SnappyDSL.net
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Steve Barnes
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 6:44 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Indoor
Beamforming and SmartMesh...
Specifically beamforming though since other companies have Meshing. Plus
their price point is lower then the other enterprise class WLAN systems.
Mikrotik is going to be for the places that can't afford Ruckus, but if you
have to deploy less overall AP's, Ruckus
Oh and Dynamic PSK is pretty cool too
Daniel White
3-dB Networks
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Butch Evans
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 8:05 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Indoor Access Points
On Tue, 18 Nov 2008,
For residential, I'd probably go TrendNet.
-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
--
From: Josh Luthman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 2:21 PM
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
I believe Mark in... Oregon has done so.
-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
--
From: Joel White [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 9:38 PM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: [WISPA] Ubiquiti
All I can come up with is the 83 MHz at 2.4 GHz and the... 28? MHz at 900
MHz.
-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
--
From: Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 9:57 PM
To:
We'll be allowed to go all the way down to channel 2. 3, 37 and a couple of
others are disallowed. I'm still reading the nprm for the first time. 130
pages of very interesting stuff. There is a lot of background and what
people filed in there so far. It also talks a lot about the goals of
Many reasons:
Technical reasons:
Commercial Grade Hardware with a very stable Radio / router
POE Support, Mesh Support, Smart Antenna, ability to 'focus' around
intereference.
All the basic + enhanced config requirements for WLAN, Security /
Authentication / Hotspot / Mesh etc built in.
ISPCON: An ISP Industry that Processes Credit Cards
Charles Wu and Layne Sisk say that ISPs can now serve a greater number of small
businesses and cut out the credit card middle men.
by Alex Goldman
ISP-Planet Managing Editor
[November 11, 2008]
Orem, Utah-based
The zoneflex centralized management. If this system goes down, does the
entire wireless network go down or does the AP use the last known good
configuration?
Can the software configure the Wireless nodes via wireless, or does it
require a wired connection?
ryan
Faisal Imtiaz wrote:
Many
Channels 3, 4, and 37 are excluded no matter what.
Fixed users cannot use an adjacent channel (at this time) and are permitted
between 2 and 51, with a power limit of 4 watts EIRP.
Personal portable users are restricted to channels 21 - 51. 100 mw of
power, but are to use 40 mw on channels
I was talking to one of the tv stations engineers out here on the coast.
He has a translator here.
I asked him how soon would we be seeing the DTV conversion.
His answer is, not any time soon and we must have mis understood the
situation.
Translators are EXEMPT from having to go digital,
All of our local TV stations (3, 8,10,11,12 14) have all completed their
transition to DTV. They are still broadcasting analog as well and will
continue to do so until the deadline. Those who have not completed their
transition by the deadline Feb 17, 2009 will possibly face a huge fine from
what
Something to this effect is mentioned in the second (and most recent) TVWS
RO. I forget the details, but there's a few different types of TV
repeaters.
I would imagine legally they may not be required to, but their contract with
the network may require them to (in order to support HD).
A channel 2 yagi is not something you can throw in the back of your
installer vehicle.
I have installed 4 X 6 element channel 2 yagi arrays before. (14 dBi)
You couldn't fit them in this office I am sitting in right now.
- Original Message -
From: Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To:
Lower Power TV and Translators (they are pretty much the same license) are
Exempt.
However most of them are conveying the signal of a larger network station.
The larger network station will want the translator chain to be digital if
they can.
Many of the translators in Utah have a digital unit
The management system is just the management system.
It polls / monitors / and programs the config on the AP's.
AP's can be used stand alone... (Smart Mesh requires the Zoneflex... To
monitor make changes automatically).
Short answer to your question about configuring the Node via
The RO states what each type of station is and what it does.
-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
--
From: CHUCK PROFITO [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 10:55 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Don't forget about the spectrum for things like garage door openers (I think
it's around 433 MHz), baby monitors and cordless phones in the 49 MHz range
and probably others I am forgetting. They were talking about all unlicensed
consumer devices, not just wireless networking stuff.
Thank You,
Perhaps the question was a little more general.
A TV translator is nothing more than a repeater.
For example channel 6 would be received, translated to channel 55 and
retransmitted.
Normally they were VHF in and UHF out. Low power. 2 to 200 watts.
Out west, where we have lots of mountain
Also channel 4 is disallowed.
Does anybody know what the 13 major markets are (related to PLMPS
radios)?
Marlon, it sounds like you are plowing thru it at the same rate I am.
-John
On Nov 19, 2008, at 10:33 AM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
We'll be allowed to go all the way down to channel 2.
I used to live in a small town in Northern California.
Every few months, one of the 4 translators they had running on the
ridgetop would get crystal-clear while the other 3 would be fuzzy as hell.
Finally I asked the locals about it. It seems you are not a local in
that town unless you have
Patrick,
Thank you very much for your inputs. We should be able to hit your
pricing targets on CPE; Access points will be higher in the $2500 -
$3000 range.
Cheers!
Kevin
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Patrick Shoemaker
Sent:
George,
He is correct in that statement. There are exemptions for low power
translators. That was one of the reasons I put that big disclaimer in my
mapping tool. If you go here you can read about these special cases
http://www.fcc.gov/oet/faqs/dtv-tvtx.html. If there will be these
I know one group of farmers and townsfolk that had an ad hoc translator
committee that paid for parts and repairs.
It wasn't a legal entity, just a group of folks that pooled donations to
keep it alive.
They would have an annual meeting and fund drive. One year nobody was
interested in coming
Tom Sharples wrote:
One of our wisp clients (a good size one with around 1K paying clients) has
been testing the ns2, and he reports some sort of problem that shows up as a
steady loss of preformance over time. They start out working great, but
after a few days of continuous operation the
Ass. :-p
-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
--
From: Chuck McCown [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 11:33 AM
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] DTV
Small towns...
Mike Hammett wrote:
Ass. :-p
-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
--
From: "Chuck McCown" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 11:33 AM
To: "WISPA General List"
On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 09:21:46AM -0800, D. Ryan Spott wrote:
I used to live in a small town in Northern California.
Every few months, one of the 4 translators they had running on the
ridgetop would get crystal-clear while the other 3 would be fuzzy as hell.
Finally I asked the locals
There previously was some discussion about a 10 meter antenna height
requirement in the TVWS.
I'm only on page 43 of the report, but on this page it states that the FCC
doesn't see a need for either a height or an outdoor requirement, only a 40 cm
distance away from people. This is to comply
Further information on this is that for fixed devices, a 30 dB transmit
power into the antenna with a 6 dBi antenna. Every 1 dB decrease in
transmit power results in a 1 dB increase in antenna gain... so for the
largest practical antenna I can think of... 26 dB transmitter, 10 dB
antenna.
Mine once I build, test and release the image. :)
OpenWRT/DD-WRT support it.
Once I figure out how to customize the Ubnt SDK I can release a mesh
firmware. It's currently a work in progress.
Jerry Richardson wrote:
Charles, which custom firmware supports mesh?
Josh Luthman wrote:
Charles,
Have you any experience with the R52/h or Compex cards? If so how do the
NS2s compare (or do they)?
No I do not. Sorry.
My other wireless experience has been with Linksys WRT54GL running OpenWrt.
Mike,
On page 5 in section 8 (Fixed devices), it says fixed devices will
be required to operate with antennas mounted outdoors ...
I suppose you could run coax from a TVBD inside, but it seems like the
current method of POE to an outdoor device is preferred? So we are
still looking at
Yes, thats because the height requirement was for facilitating accuracy of
sensing, and sensing no longer being the method the rules rely on for
interference avoidance.
Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
- Original Message -
From: Mike Hammett
Joe,
The White Spaces are the unused television channels. In most major metro
areas, many of the channels are in use by television broadcasters and
other licensed users. Outside of major metro areas, there will be unused
channels available that you can use. In general, the more rural you are,
I would like to correct myself with regards to the personal devices. I
confused what they said in the first RO with what they said in this one...
100 mw EIRP for personal devices.
-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
Perhaps once TVWS gets used and it proves a success, then they will open up
adjacent channels.
Once they do that there will be holes everywhere.
- Original Message -
From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 12:58 PM
Does anyone know of any good open source netflow tools / collectors geared more
for accounting than analyzing traffic? I would like to use netflow for our
usage base billing since all our routers are mikrotik it should be easy to do.
I looked at ntop and its flow capture system is more for
100 mW transmitter with 6 dBi antenna
That was a surprise. I was expecting 100mw EIRP.
That might make the margin between Fixed and Personal Portible a bit close.
36db (4 watt) -26db (400mw) = 10 db. Thats about the average SNR margin
required for most DSSS radio (PS I know, Canopy 3db C/I)
It
Then also negate my last Email.
Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
- Original Message -
From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 3:03 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] White Spaces
Anything's possible but look at the shape of a DTV waveform and compare
it to the shape of an OFDM broadband wireless signal. Now look at the
space between those two waveforms if they are on adjacent channels. It's
kind of like putting two bricks side by side with no space in between.
Who is
Hopefully forward error correction and directional antennas will make it
possible.
- Original Message -
From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 1:19 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces
Anything's possible but
I think signal propagation characteristics like diffraction are a much
bigger issue at low frequencies closer to the ground.
Here's a link that discusses some of the issues
http://users.ictp.it/~radionet/ghana1998/LINKLOSS/INDEX.HTM
http://users.ictp.it/%7Eradionet/ghana1998/LINKLOSS/INDEX.HTM
My read is that any 'portable or nomadic' device would be 100 or 40 mW
EiRP and therefore not very useable for user self install unless a
client was close to the AP.
Kevin
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of John Valenti
Sent: Wednesday,
I disagree. It might be quite a while before we can use them. But I think
that there will be a technological solution if it looks like they will allow
it.
Heck, they've already said that OOB has to be 55dB BELOW the interference
level for adjacent channel use. I forget what that
For adjacent channel use, we don't have to use a 6 MHz channel. We could
use 5 or 4 or whatever it takes to make it work.
- Original Message -
From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 1:32 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV
Although I got my license and site registration some time ago, I am only now
putting it up. Will be done early next week.
Mark
insert witty tagline here
- Original Message -
From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List
That's a very good idea on the transmit side. Remember that our AP
receivers will also need a VERY sharp filter ($$$) to keep the adjacent
channel TV signal from overloading it and reducing the reception range
to .
jack
Chuck McCown - 3 wrote:
For adjacent channel use, we
Mike,
Where are you reading this on page 43?
And I've made it farther back in the report...
Is Appendix B (Final Rules) the actual rule? That doesn't look good,
see Antenna Requirements on page 101. Not only is the transmit antenna
limited to 30 meters high, but the receive antenna must
You could have a lower gain omni as just a sense antenna.
- Original Message -
From: John Valenti [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 5:20 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] TVBD height requirement
Mike,
Where are you reading this on
I'm looking into setting up a remote access point/repeater.
Power requirements are 5W. No access to grid power.
I was curious what you guys use for this type of thing?
I figure I need a 30W solar panel, controller, battery and enclosure.
How much should I expect to pay for a setup?
Is there
I would use a 100 watt panel minimum.
And a one month battery. 5watts * 24hours * 30 days = 3600 watt hour
battery
If you are running a 24 volt system then you need 3600/24=150 aH battery.
If you are running a 12 volt system, you need a 300 aH battery.
You will pay about 30 cents per watt hour
Here is a note I posted several days ago on the Motorola list about solar
powering.
From: Chuck McCown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 9:17 AM
To: Dave Crim
Subject: Re: solar
Continuing on a bit, lets say you have 5 lousy days and one good sunny day
followed by 5
And those are available already. the CATV industry has had them, in
75ohm, for a long time.
One thing I really hope for this gear is that the vendors decide to
make 75ohm gear. There is a HUGE amount of stuff already out there
that we can use if they do.
Jack Unger wrote:
That's a very
What type of battery's are you using? That price sounds very high.
4x T-105 will provide 225Ah at 24V for a cost of about $500
Chuck McCoy's - 3 wrote:
I would use a 100 watt panel minimum.
And a one month battery. 5watts * 24hours * 30 days = 3600 watt hour
battery
If you are running a
With the cost and loss's of RG6 cable, it might sense to have all the
active stuff inside.
John Valenti wrote:
Mike,
On page 5 in section 8 (Fixed devices), it says "fixed devices will
be required to operate with antennas mounted outdoors ..."
I suppose you could run coax from a TVBD
That's good. Do you have a url or two?
Blair Davis wrote:
And those are available already. the CATV industry has had them, in
75ohm, for a long time.
One thing I really hope for this gear is that the vendors decide to
make 75ohm gear. There is a HUGE amount of stuff already out there
We buy batts that are rated to give you the energy down to -20F.
Survive being at-20F while discharged to a stone cold state.
And recover when the next available bit of sunlight hits the panel (perhaps
days later).
And last 2000 cycles.
For that you pay 30 cents per watt hour. And can sleep at
Not offhand. Back 10-15 years ago, I used them in CATV work, so I know
they are out there.
Jack Unger wrote:
That's good. Do you have a url or two?
Blair Davis wrote:
And those are available already. the CATV industry has had them, in
75ohm, for a long time.
One thing I
Ok. our answer to that problem has always been to double up on our
total battery size so we never discharge them below 60%
Sounds like you are in a much more inaccessible environment than we
are! And in that kind of location, I'd likely be looking for the same
thing.
But, for us,
Here is one kind I found quick.
http://www.tinlee.com/bandpass_filters.php?active=1#CFAL
Winegaurd and Channel Master both made them for CATV use and for
master antenna distribution systems
Jack Unger wrote:
That's good. Do you have a url or two?
Blair Davis wrote:
And those
Thanks! Something similar (maybe a little more selective and a little
more money) might work. :)
Regarding the 75-ohm stuff. It's unlikely that we'll be piecing this
stuff together. It's more likely that it will be all assembled and
certified as a unit. FCC certification is a requirement.
At 60% depth of discharge they freeze at 0F. Once frozen they are dead. Liquid
electrolyte batteries need to be liquid to work.
Not to mention the risk of a broken case. (You most likely mean you try to
avoid taking them below 40% DOD, but 60% has a nice freezing point to exploit
for purposes
Unless I am looking at it wrong it looks like New Orleans has 10 channels
that I can use. This is going by using google earth and Brians file.
Joe Laura
Superior Alarm/Wireless
New Orleans,La.
www.superior1.com
- Original Message -
From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List
I'm still only about half way through, but I thought it was 2 years.
-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
--
From: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 3:43 PM
You piece together an Alvarion or Redline IDU and ODU with a piece of IF
cable.
Just because it requires FCC certification (as does everything) doesn't mean
you can't have antenna selection.
-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
Sorry Mike. I try to limit my time to responding only to serious,
thoughtful comments. I don't normally respond to smart-a** comments
because I just don't have any time to waste on them.
I expect a more intelligent contribution from someone who works to
achieve Intelligent Computing Solutions.
On Wed, 19 Nov 2008, Jack Unger wrote:
Sorry Mike. I try to limit my time to responding only to serious,
thoughtful comments. I don't normally respond to smart-a** comments
because I just don't have any time to waste on them.
Ouch! :-)
Has anyone done an RF propagation study in your area for
Butch,
Your analysis looks good. I'm still reading through the rules and I WILL
be commenting just as soon as I get through it all. :)
I don't think Fresnel is going to be too much of a problem. Which page
did you pick up that antenna height requirement from?
jack
Butch Evans wrote:
On
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