RE: [WISPA] Flawed Spectrum Analysis (I think!)

2006-02-10 Thread Cliff Leboeuf










Thanks for all of the feedback.



For clarification, the LMR400 cable was 140
feet and was the only cable that connected the analyzer to the antenna.



I am familiar with the IDU and ODU
configuration of the Redline equipment.



This test was to see what 5.8 RF was
present. The customer plans to deploy a series of P2P and P2Mp radios in the
same coverage area as two other towers that have 5.8 deployed.

My climber was familiar with the other
tower locations, and wanted to prove other RF was in the same
area, and that the Redline P2Mp has the potential to affect these other towers adversely.



Though I have not seen their conclusion, I
am not confident in their methods; and the fact that I believe they just want
to install. Once they are functional, they are outta here. Then,
the customer will be left to mitigate any issues that could easily be avoided,
or minimized, by using other frequencies. This is a public safety entity and
should be using the 4.9Ghz frequency, but I think Redline has this project
wrapped up and since they dont make 4.9Ghz equipment, they are forcing
the 5.8Ghz and are resisting my ideas tooth and nail.



Why create a potential for problems when
you know it can be avoidedThat the government though! J



- Cliff








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RE: [WISPA] Flawed Spectrum Analysis (I think!)

2006-02-10 Thread JohnnyO




I think what you thought was RG6 was actually RG59 - Redline is a pretty clean platform so I don't think too many issues will arise from the deployment of that platform in your area.

JohnnyO

On Fri, 2006-02-10 at 07:31 -0600, Cliff Leboeuf wrote:


Thanks for all of the feedback.



For clarification, the LMR400 cable was 140 feet and was the only cable that connected the analyzer to the antenna.



I am familiar with the IDU and ODU configuration of the Redline equipment.



This test was to see what 5.8 RF was present. The customer plans to deploy a series of P2P and P2Mp radios in the same coverage area as two other towers that have 5.8 deployed.

My climber was familiar with the other tower locations, and wanted to prove other RF was in the same area, and that the Redline P2Mp has the potential to affect these other towers adversely.





Though I have not seen their conclusion, I am not confident in their methods; and the fact that I believe they just want to install. Once they are functional, they are outta here. Then, the customer will be left to mitigate any issues that could easily be avoided, or minimized, by using other frequencies. This is a public safety entity and should be using the 4.9Ghz frequency, but I think Redline has this project wrapped up and since they dont make 4.9Ghz equipment, they are forcing the 5.8Ghz and are resisting my ideas tooth and nail.



Why create a potential for problems when you know it can be avoidedThat the government though! J



- Cliff





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Re: [WISPA] MikroTik 5.8GHz Radio cards and settings.

2006-02-10 Thread Blair Davis




Tom,

The first batch of SR5 cards had a problem with their mmxc port.  Low
or no output when selected.  The u.fl port was said to be ok.

If you don't mind, why would you use amps with a 400mW radio card?  I'd
expect you to be overloading the input on the amps and making all kinds
of noise

Tom DeReggi wrote:

  
  
  
  
  What exactly is the old mmcx
problem? I had some original batch Range2's (or is that range 3s, the
2,4Ghz G ones) that were giving me sparatic performance at a site, used
with RfLink Amps, and the mmcx port.
   
  Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
   
   
  
-
Original Message - 
From:
Blair
Davis 
To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Cc:
'WISPA
General List' 
Sent:
Thursday, February 09, 2006 3:04 PM
Subject:
Re: [WISPA] MikroTik 5.8GHz Radio cards and settings.


I was/am aware of the mmcx issue and all tests were done with the same
u.fl pigtails on each end.  When the radio cards were changed, the same
u.fl pigtails were used.  Only the radio cards were changed.

They were the older SR5 cards with the mmcx problem.  (proven by
testing!!)  The mmcx port was down 6db from the u.fl port.

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

  What pigtails and connectors? Mmcx on the SR5 or u.fl? are these new SR5's or
older sr'5s?

  
  
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf
Of Blair Davis
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 2:08 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] MikroTik 5.8GHz Radio cards and settings.

Hey all:

I'm getting some odd results here with a PtP 5.8GHz link using MikroTik
that I setup to test with.  Let me describe the setup...

The link is 7.9 miles with clear LoS and clear Frenel zone.  Each end
has a 27db grid with a 3ft LMR-400 jumper to the MikroTik radio.

Using the link calculator at
http://www.zytrax.com/tech/wireless/calc.htm I get a predicted rx of
-60.8db at each end with CM9 radio cards (17db output).  Using the SR5
cards, (400mW), I get a predicted rx of -51.8

On to the real world results  (all reading taken from the MikroTik's
winbox.  I am using version 2.9.11 on RouterBoard 230's)

With the CM9 cards, I get a measured rx of -62db, well within the margin
of error.  An interesting note here is that I must set the CM9's output
power in the MikroTik at 30db to get these results..  I know that the
MikroTik must be doing something odd with this setting, as the CM9 can
not put out 30db.  Reducing the setting drops the rx strenth by a like
amount.  This link is stable and will pass 30Mb/sec in UDP and 22Mb/sec
in TCP mode

With the SR5 cards, I get a measured rx of -66db, well outside the
margin of error and 15db below the expected rx strength!  An interesting
note here is that I must set the SR5's output power in the MikroTik at
30db to get these results.  I know that the MikroTik must be doing
something odd with this setting, as the SR5 should not put out 30db.
Reducing the setting drops the rx strength by a like amount.  This link
is stable and will pass 24Mb/sec in UDP and 16Mb/sec in TCP mode.

Nothing else is changed when I swap the SR5's for the CM9's or back
again.  I use the same antennas, cables, boards and pigtails.  The
antennas and cables are not moved between tests. (except for moving the
pigtail from one card to the other).

Can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong here?  Or do I just have some
bad SR5 cards?  Or is the tx power setting in the MikroTik flakey?  Or
is the tx power setting relative db not absolute db?

BTW, I will be changing one end to a sector and wish to use the SR5
cards then.  Otherwise I'd be happy with the -62 on the CM9's

Thanks in advance.

--
Blair Davis

AOL IM Screen Name --  Theory240

West Michigan Wireless ISP
269-686-8648

A division of:
Camp Communication Services, INC

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-- 
Blair Davis

AOL IM Screen Name --  Theory240

West Michigan Wireless ISP
269-686-8648

A division of:
Camp Communication Services, INC

 
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-- 
Blair Davis

AOL IM Screen Name --  Theory240

West Michigan Wireless ISP
269-686-8648

A division of:
Camp Communication Services, INC



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Re: [WISPA] Flawed Spectrum Analysis (I think!)

2006-02-10 Thread Bob Moldashel

AUGH!


This whole thread..

Some have touched on pieces of it but how about this summary..

The Redline is a two piece radio.  It does not send 5 Ghz up the cable. 
It sends an IF frequency which is lower and more forgiving as well as 
power to operate the outdoor unit. The Redline as pointed out does not 
have a spectrum analyzer (in the versions I have worked with).  As such 
they probably just checked for RSL on any or all channels.  This is not 
a spectrum analysis by any means. The Redline equipment is great 
equipment but it is not a spectrum analyzer.


A spectrum analysis is flawed in almost any case really because it is 
only good at the time of the testing and along the path of the test. You 
really will only see stronger signals with an omni. But you can still 
have your signal killed if someone is using directional antennas and 
looking down your path. There is a big difference from 8 dB to 29 dB.


The other case is a 5 Ghz. system in place that only is used at the end 
of the day or does dumps' at certain times.  Unlike a full duplex radio 
like a Proxim Tsunami that is talking all the time regardless of the 
received signal, you may only see a signal when the associated equipment 
is passing data. 

In my book you can't do reliable spectrum analysis with any radio or 
assocaited radio card. Yes, there are systems out there that work really 
well but I would not be willing to bet my reputation on most.  Will they 
get you by in most cases???  Sure.  
But...


To answer your question..Yes, the spectrum analysis was flawed.

Personally...we never do spectrum analysis.  It causes more headaches 
than what it is worth IMHO.  Is it great for finding interference??  Sure.


I have installed links in lower Manhattan (nearly 70 to date on 
unlicensed 5 Ghz), Washington DC and Boston without ever needing a 
spectrum analysis. All these locations are RF hotbeds.


A few things to consider. Use a radio with a very good C/I value. Use 2' 
or larger antennas to keep the beamwidth tight. Use radios that are 
capable of 5 or 10 Mhz. channels.  Use radios with high RF power output. 
If you need to run transmission line to the radio, use the right stuff 
for the job. LMR400 and 5 Ghz. are not my considered options unless the 
cable length is less than 24.  We use LMR600 up to 100' and 5/8 heliax 
after that. make sure the radio has a good receiver threshold. Wherever 
possible we use 5.3 Ghz.


Last and not least consider your neighbors. If there is only one tall 
building in town and everyone is on it use 5 Ghz. you are probably in 
for some challenges. But if you do a spectrum analysis, find a clear 
channel, build on it and then smile and walk away only to have one of 
the existing operators change channels and rain on your parade.


Its a game of chance but with the proper engineering you can move the 
odds more in your favor.


Good Luck!

-B-


--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US  Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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RE: [WISPA] BPSK QAM16 DSSS interference

2006-02-10 Thread Dustin Jurman
Tom,

There are always several ways to skin that cat! 

Well the larger antenna would certainly allow you to decrease your back lobe
and increase power and the size of your ear.  

If the problem is interference at your site, a lot of this is going to
depend on how your site is built, length of the face of the tower, and
direction of all of your equipment.  

While I haven't done any current work with the 2 foot Gabriel professional
series I've been hearing enough good stuff about it that I ordered one to
play with and see if it worth deploying. 

What I like to do in situations like this is break out the Anritsu spectrum
analyzer and spend some time documenting the site.  Knowing the ambient
noise floor at the site is important before putting any additional equipment
up as it's likely to interfere with other equipment.  

Dustin Jurman






-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 9:24 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] BPSK QAM16 DSSS interference

Thanks, Charles and Dustin,

The challenge I'm working on is to determine if the degregation of my test 
link, is caused by

A) Distortion on the transmitter, at full power? or
B) Overload or lack of acuracy of the receiver. or
C) Or Just plain interference creeping in. (tested at about -80db)
note: multipath unlikely, as LOS link, 10 miles, parabolic antenna, o wall 
behind antennas, 100ft above other buildings.

In my Trango test case, w/ 2ft antennas, QAM16, at -55 db I got worse signal

Quality quality (packet loss) than at -65db. To me that would infer case A 
or B was happening.

What was interesting, is my Mikrotik test link w/ range5s, actually got peak

rssi (full power) of -47db apposed to Altas's peak signal of -55.
(note: path analisys calculated -55 db appropriate, so not a negative for 
the Trango, but a Plus for the Range 5, exceeding expectations).

With the Mikrotik, the higher the rssi radio power, the better the speed 
results, and lower the packet loss. So Mikrotik did not seem to be plagued 
with the same delimna. However, at a surprise, the Mikrotik performed at a 
slower speed, and had more packet loss, in its best link configuration, than

Trango had.  So the Trango at -65db QAM16, outperformed the Mikrotik 
at -47db.

I attribute those results partially, to how the radios deal with 
interference. One side of the link (AP/MU) had significant noise, causing 
the Mikrotik to lower modulation more frequently.  I proved this, by 
repeating speed tests with Trango using 5.3Ghz, which performed perfect 
links (no loss). However, the 10-11 miles was pushing the maxrange of 5.3, 
and I felt 5.3 was to risky, based on that. I actually had to turnup the 
Power a little over the legal limit to get the perfect link, but still lower

rssi than the 5.8G link.  But my point was, when noise wasn't there, the 
links worked much better.

So the decission I am trying to decide on is,
a) increase the gain (dbi) of the antennas and lower the gain (dbm) of the 
radio, to improve the link.
For example, upgrade from 2 ft dished to 3 or 4 ft dished.  or

b) get a better 2 ft antenna with more isolation.
For example, upgrade Gabriel cheap 2 ft para to the high performance 2 ft 
Gabriel Drum style antennas?

Either one could have a possitive effect. Its likely that my noise is 
comming from my colocated antennas at the same site. The Drum style antenna 
will likely have much better isolation comming from the sides.  Better F/B 
ratio is not jsut about an antenna behind me, but also beside me, and 
interference is not always cured by lowering the beamwidth, if the 
interference is comming from the side. So better isolation antenna could be 
the choice.

However, if the packet loss was from self generated noise, larger antenna 
would keep my gain up, even after lowering power. However, I actually would 
still have a gain improvement, because the antenna increases gain in both 
directions, where as lowering he TX power only does it in one direction. 
Because most of my interference is at the AP/MU side my paln was possibly 
to

Increase the antenna at the RU/Client, to a 3-4 ft dish. If packet loss 
at -55db was due to transmitting to high power, and loss was at MU/AP then 
it would be most importantto lower transmit power at the RU/Client side. 
Increasing dish size at RU would help this.

Then on the MU/AP side, I would add the high performance 2ft antenna, with 
better isolation, taking that most of teh interference may be colocation 
interference. Increasing the antenna size may not block interference comming

from the side.

But then again, if interference comming from the front (I have another site 
20 deg off to the left), its possible the larger dish and narrower beam may 
in fact also help isolate interference.

Now to make it complicated, what if the cause is not interference at the 
radio receivers? But instead its all the RF in between and 

RE: [WISPA] Flawed Spectrum Analysis (I think!)

2006-02-10 Thread Dustin Jurman
If the spectrum analyzer is left in place for a period of time and setup
with peak hold you will quickly find that radio that is used at the end of
the day. It still speaks, handshakes and more. 

Just setting up big shots and blowing people out is bad business for
everyone. If the customer wants a quality shot then there should be no
problem doing a spectrum analysis, freq decision and installation shortly
after.  

I agree it's only good for a certain amount of time, but if the customer
wants a reliable shot then due diligence is better than chance luck.  

Dustin 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bob Moldashel
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 9:49 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Flawed Spectrum Analysis (I think!)

AUGH!


This whole thread..

Some have touched on pieces of it but how about this summary..

The Redline is a two piece radio.  It does not send 5 Ghz up the cable. 
It sends an IF frequency which is lower and more forgiving as well as 
power to operate the outdoor unit. The Redline as pointed out does not 
have a spectrum analyzer (in the versions I have worked with).  As such 
they probably just checked for RSL on any or all channels.  This is not 
a spectrum analysis by any means. The Redline equipment is great 
equipment but it is not a spectrum analyzer.

A spectrum analysis is flawed in almost any case really because it is 
only good at the time of the testing and along the path of the test. You 
really will only see stronger signals with an omni. But you can still 
have your signal killed if someone is using directional antennas and 
looking down your path. There is a big difference from 8 dB to 29 dB.

The other case is a 5 Ghz. system in place that only is used at the end 
of the day or does dumps' at certain times.  Unlike a full duplex radio 
like a Proxim Tsunami that is talking all the time regardless of the 
received signal, you may only see a signal when the associated equipment 
is passing data. 

In my book you can't do reliable spectrum analysis with any radio or 
assocaited radio card. Yes, there are systems out there that work really 
well but I would not be willing to bet my reputation on most.  Will they 
get you by in most cases???  Sure.  
But...

To answer your question..Yes, the spectrum analysis was flawed.

Personally...we never do spectrum analysis.  It causes more headaches 
than what it is worth IMHO.  Is it great for finding interference??  Sure.

I have installed links in lower Manhattan (nearly 70 to date on 
unlicensed 5 Ghz), Washington DC and Boston without ever needing a 
spectrum analysis. All these locations are RF hotbeds.

A few things to consider. Use a radio with a very good C/I value. Use 2' 
or larger antennas to keep the beamwidth tight. Use radios that are 
capable of 5 or 10 Mhz. channels.  Use radios with high RF power output. 
If you need to run transmission line to the radio, use the right stuff 
for the job. LMR400 and 5 Ghz. are not my considered options unless the 
cable length is less than 24.  We use LMR600 up to 100' and 5/8 heliax 
after that. make sure the radio has a good receiver threshold. Wherever 
possible we use 5.3 Ghz.

Last and not least consider your neighbors. If there is only one tall 
building in town and everyone is on it use 5 Ghz. you are probably in 
for some challenges. But if you do a spectrum analysis, find a clear 
channel, build on it and then smile and walk away only to have one of 
the existing operators change channels and rain on your parade.

Its a game of chance but with the proper engineering you can move the 
odds more in your favor.

Good Luck!

-B-


-- 
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US  Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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Re: [WISPA] Flawed Spectrum Analysis (I think!)

2006-02-10 Thread Bob Moldashel

Dustin Jurman wrote:


If the spectrum analyzer is left in place for a period of time and setup
with peak hold you will quickly find that radio that is used at the end of
the day. It still speaks, handshakes and more. 
 



I don't know about you but I'm not about to leave a spectrum analyzer 
180' up a tower for any period of time.



Just setting up big shots and blowing people out is bad business for
everyone. 

I am not saying to blow people out of the water with power. I am saying 
to make sure you have ample power and gain to supply a solid signal. 
Running at -78 on a link is not a solid signal in my mind.  We only use 
equipment where we can control the power. We don't run full bore unlike 
alot of WISP operators. We don't plug radios like Motorola Canopy units 
into omni's. And my opinion is if I blow that guy off the air, so be 
it.  It was not properly engineered to begin with. It was finacially 
engineered to get by cheap.





If the customer wants a quality shot then there should be no
problem doing a spectrum analysis, freq decision and installation shortly
after.  
 



But the point is moot if Johnny O comes along on your channel tomorrow 
and blows you off the air (I am only using him as an example).  Then the 
customer is all pissy because he spent money for spectrum analysis that 
was totally moot.



I agree it's only good for a certain amount of time, but if the customer
wants a reliable shot then due diligence is better than chance luck.  
 



I don't think a properly engineered link is chance luck. We don't just 
pick a channel out of thin air and go with it. Alot of engineering goes 
into it. Spectrum analysis is just not a factor 99.999 percent of the time.


-B-

Dustin 
 




--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US  Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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Re: [WISPA] Flawed Spectrum Analysis (I think!)

2006-02-10 Thread robert maier
I think you hit the nail on the headBob Moldashel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  AUGH!This whole thread..Some have touched on pieces of it but how about this summary..The Redline is a two piece radio. It does not send 5 Ghz up the cable. It sends an IF frequency which is lower and more forgiving as well as power to operate the outdoor unit. The Redline as pointed out does not have a spectrum analyzer (in the versions I have worked with). As such they probably just checked for RSL on any or all channels. This is not a spectrum analysis by any means. The Redline equipment is great equipment but it is not a spectrum analyzer.A spectrum analysis is flawed in almost any case really because it is only good at the time of the testing and along the path of the test. You rea
 lly will
 only see stronger signals with an omni. But you can still have your signal killed if someone is using directional antennas and looking down your path. There is a big difference from 8 dB to 29 dB.The other case is a 5 Ghz. system in place that only is used at the end of the day or does "dumps' at certain times. Unlike a full duplex radio like a Proxim Tsunami that is talking all the time regardless of the received signal, you may only see a signal when the associated equipment is passing data. In my book you can't do "reliable spectrum analysis" with any radio or assocaited radio card. Yes, there are systems out there that work really well but I would not be willing to bet my reputation on most. Will they get you by in most cases??? Sure. But...To answer your question..Yes, the spectrum analysis was flawed.Personally...we never do spectrum analysis.
  It
 causes more headaches than what it is worth IMHO. Is it great for finding interference?? Sure.I have installed links in lower Manhattan (nearly 70 to date on unlicensed 5 Ghz), Washington DC and Boston without ever needing a spectrum analysis. All these locations are RF hotbeds.A few things to consider. Use a radio with a very good C/I value. Use 2' or larger antennas to keep the beamwidth tight. Use radios that are capable of 5 or 10 Mhz. channels. Use radios with high RF power output. If you need to run transmission line to the radio, use the right stuff for the job. LMR400 and 5 Ghz. are not my considered options unless the cable length is less than 24". We use LMR600 up to 100' and 5/8" heliax after that. make sure the radio has a good receiver threshold. Wherever possible we use 5.3 Ghz.Last and not least consider your neighbors. If there is only one tall building in town and everyone is on it use 5 Ghz
 . you
 are probably in for some challenges. But if you do a spectrum analysis, find a clear channel, build on it and then smile and walk away only to have one of the existing operators change channels and rain on your parade.Its a game of chance but with the proper engineering you can move the odds more in your favor.Good Luck!-B--- Bob MoldashelLakeland Communications, Inc.Broadband Deployment Group1350 Lincoln AvenueHolbrook, New York 11741 USA800-479-9195 Toll Free US  Canada631-585-5558 Fax516-551-1131 Cell-- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.orgSubscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wirelessArchives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
	
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RE: [WISPA] Flawed Spectrum Analysis (I think!)

2006-02-10 Thread Dustin Jurman
Takes no more than a few minutes to perform a peak hold Bob,  maybe you
should get one and play with it a bit.  It's a very powerful tool and I
think your opinion will change.   

I agree that we have two different schools of thought. 
1. Plan the play, play the plan.
2. Show up for the game.

Cliff was doing the right thing by doing a spectrum analysis, esp knowing
that he was going to go trough some existing equipment.  Anything short of
that would be irresponsible.  I would say to Cliff that if they cannot
produce results from the analyzer, graphs and charts than it's worthless and
done improperly,  just because you have an analyzer doesn't mean you know
how to use it.  

If it's helpful I will post some shots to a website if Cliff thinks that it
is helpful.  

Dustin Jurman
Rapid Systems Corporation
1211 North Westshore Blvd
Tampa, FL 33607
813--232-4887
Building Better Infrastructure!



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bob Moldashel
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 10:17 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Flawed Spectrum Analysis (I think!)

Dustin Jurman wrote:

If the spectrum analyzer is left in place for a period of time and setup
with peak hold you will quickly find that radio that is used at the end
of
the day. It still speaks, handshakes and more. 
  


I don't know about you but I'm not about to leave a spectrum analyzer 
180' up a tower for any period of time.

Just setting up big shots and blowing people out is bad business for
everyone. 

I am not saying to blow people out of the water with power. I am saying 
to make sure you have ample power and gain to supply a solid signal. 
Running at -78 on a link is not a solid signal in my mind.  We only use 
equipment where we can control the power. We don't run full bore unlike 
alot of WISP operators. We don't plug radios like Motorola Canopy units 
into omni's. And my opinion is if I blow that guy off the air, so be 
it.  It was not properly engineered to begin with. It was finacially 
engineered to get by cheap.



If the customer wants a quality shot then there should be no
problem doing a spectrum analysis, freq decision and installation shortly
after.  
  


But the point is moot if Johnny O comes along on your channel tomorrow 
and blows you off the air (I am only using him as an example).  Then the 
customer is all pissy because he spent money for spectrum analysis that 
was totally moot.

I agree it's only good for a certain amount of time, but if the customer
wants a reliable shot then due diligence is better than chance luck.  
  


I don't think a properly engineered link is chance luck. We don't just 
pick a channel out of thin air and go with it. Alot of engineering goes 
into it. Spectrum analysis is just not a factor 99.999 percent of the time.

-B-

Dustin 
  



-- 
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US  Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell




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RE: [WISPA] Flawed Spectrum Analysis (I think!)

2006-02-10 Thread Cliff Leboeuf
Dustin, thanks for the encouraging support of my efforts. 

Since we have been hired for part of this project, I believe it is my
RESPONSIBILITY to point out any known issues to the customer; and, it is
my responsibility to back up my concerns with hard date, not just 'my
feelings.' In the event that the data doesn't show what I know to be in
the area, I will at lease be on record for making them aware of other
5Ghz RF in the overlapping areas.

I am interested in any information that you are willing to supply for my
education.

Again, thanks for all of the feedback and discussion in my topic.
- Cliff


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dustin Jurman
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 9:42 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Flawed Spectrum Analysis (I think!)

Takes no more than a few minutes to perform a peak hold Bob,  maybe you
should get one and play with it a bit.  It's a very powerful tool and I
think your opinion will change.   

I agree that we have two different schools of thought. 
1. Plan the play, play the plan.
2. Show up for the game.

Cliff was doing the right thing by doing a spectrum analysis, esp
knowing
that he was going to go trough some existing equipment.  Anything short
of
that would be irresponsible.  I would say to Cliff that if they cannot
produce results from the analyzer, graphs and charts than it's worthless
and
done improperly,  just because you have an analyzer doesn't mean you
know
how to use it.  

If it's helpful I will post some shots to a website if Cliff thinks that
it
is helpful.  

Dustin Jurman
Rapid Systems Corporation
1211 North Westshore Blvd
Tampa, FL 33607
813--232-4887
Building Better Infrastructure!



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bob Moldashel
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 10:17 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Flawed Spectrum Analysis (I think!)

Dustin Jurman wrote:

If the spectrum analyzer is left in place for a period of time and
setup
with peak hold you will quickly find that radio that is used at the
end
of
the day. It still speaks, handshakes and more. 
  


I don't know about you but I'm not about to leave a spectrum analyzer 
180' up a tower for any period of time.

Just setting up big shots and blowing people out is bad business for
everyone. 

I am not saying to blow people out of the water with power. I am saying 
to make sure you have ample power and gain to supply a solid signal. 
Running at -78 on a link is not a solid signal in my mind.  We only use 
equipment where we can control the power. We don't run full bore unlike 
alot of WISP operators. We don't plug radios like Motorola Canopy units 
into omni's. And my opinion is if I blow that guy off the air, so be 
it.  It was not properly engineered to begin with. It was finacially 
engineered to get by cheap.



If the customer wants a quality shot then there should be no
problem doing a spectrum analysis, freq decision and installation
shortly
after.  
  


But the point is moot if Johnny O comes along on your channel tomorrow 
and blows you off the air (I am only using him as an example).  Then the

customer is all pissy because he spent money for spectrum analysis that 
was totally moot.

I agree it's only good for a certain amount of time, but if the
customer
wants a reliable shot then due diligence is better than chance luck.  
  


I don't think a properly engineered link is chance luck. We don't just 
pick a channel out of thin air and go with it. Alot of engineering goes 
into it. Spectrum analysis is just not a factor 99.999 percent of the
time.

-B-

Dustin 
  



-- 
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US  Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell




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Re: [WISPA] Flawed Spectrum Analysis (I think!)

2006-02-10 Thread Bob Moldashel

Dustin Jurman wrote:


Takes no more than a few minutes to perform a peak hold Bob,  maybe you
should get one and play with it a bit.  It's a very powerful tool and I
think your opinion will change.   
 



LOL.Trust me.  I know all about peak hold.  And my opinion doesn't 
change.




I agree that we have two different schools of thought. 
1. Plan the play, play the plan.

2. Show up for the game.
 



Which one am I



Cliff was doing the right thing by doing a spectrum analysis, esp knowing
that he was going to go trough some existing equipment.  Anything short of
that would be irresponsible.  I would say to Cliff that if they cannot
produce results from the analyzer, graphs and charts than it's worthless and
done improperly,  just because you have an analyzer doesn't mean you know
how to use it.  

 



Dustin...I know you don't know my background and for that I can 
understand your reply.  It is not irresponsible to do a link without 
doing a spectrum analysis. If it gives you a comfort level that you 
enjoy or require, thats fine.  I can live with that.


I need to go take a nap now.  This whole thread made me tired.

:-)

-B-





If it's helpful I will post some shots to a website if Cliff thinks that it
is helpful.  


Dustin Jurman
Rapid Systems Corporation
1211 North Westshore Blvd
Tampa, FL 33607
813--232-4887
Building Better Infrastructure!



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bob Moldashel
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 10:17 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Flawed Spectrum Analysis (I think!)

Dustin Jurman wrote:

 


If the spectrum analyzer is left in place for a period of time and setup
with peak hold you will quickly find that radio that is used at the end
   


of
 

the day. It still speaks, handshakes and more. 



   



I don't know about you but I'm not about to leave a spectrum analyzer 
180' up a tower for any period of time.


 


Just setting up big shots and blowing people out is bad business for
everyone. 

   

I am not saying to blow people out of the water with power. I am saying 
to make sure you have ample power and gain to supply a solid signal. 
Running at -78 on a link is not a solid signal in my mind.  We only use 
equipment where we can control the power. We don't run full bore unlike 
alot of WISP operators. We don't plug radios like Motorola Canopy units 
into omni's. And my opinion is if I blow that guy off the air, so be 
it.  It was not properly engineered to begin with. It was finacially 
engineered to get by cheap.




 


If the customer wants a quality shot then there should be no
problem doing a spectrum analysis, freq decision and installation shortly
after.  



   



But the point is moot if Johnny O comes along on your channel tomorrow 
and blows you off the air (I am only using him as an example).  Then the 
customer is all pissy because he spent money for spectrum analysis that 
was totally moot.


 


I agree it's only good for a certain amount of time, but if the customer
wants a reliable shot then due diligence is better than chance luck.  



   



I don't think a properly engineered link is chance luck. We don't just 
pick a channel out of thin air and go with it. Alot of engineering goes 
into it. Spectrum analysis is just not a factor 99.999 percent of the time.


-B-

 

Dustin 



   




 




--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US  Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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Re: [WISPA] Flawed Spectrum Analysis (I think!)

2006-02-10 Thread Bob Moldashel

Cliff Leboeuf wrote:

Dustin, thanks for the encouraging support of my efforts. 


Since we have been hired for part of this project, I believe it is my
RESPONSIBILITY to point out any known issues to the customer; and, it is
my responsibility to back up my concerns with hard date, not just 'my
feelings.' In the event that the data doesn't show what I know to be in
the area, I will at lease be on record for making them aware of other
5Ghz RF in the overlapping areas.

I am interested in any information that you are willing to supply for my
education.

Again, thanks for all of the feedback and discussion in my topic.
- Cliff

 


Cliff,

I can appreciate that you want to give your customer hard data. That is 
understandable. But you also need to have a list of conditions and 
presumptions as well as exceptions.


Make sure the customer understands that the spectrum analysis is only 
good for the date it was taken and does not guarantee interference free 
operation in the future. The last thing you need is to have the customer 
pay you to do an analysis today and deploy 90 days from now only to find 
issues.


Otherwise...good luck with your customer.

-B-

--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US  Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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Re: [WISPA] Flawed Spectrum Analysis (I think!)

2006-02-10 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181

I totally agree with Dustin here.

Hanging them without looking first is akin to running  a stop sign.  You'll 
probably be fine, most of the time.  But..


It doesn't take long to look.

Bob's right, things can and almost always do get missed.  Dustin is also 
right though, one should find out as much as possible and make an informed 
decision as to what freq/channel to use.


Bob, I'm shocked to hear you say you don't look before you leap!  oy!  And 
telling people to use high power radios.  Yikes.  Dude.  People should use 
as much power as it takes to do that job, not a drop more!  ESPECIALLY in 
urban markets.  All a 40 dB fade margin does is cause interference 20 miles 
(literally) down the road.


I sure wish the FCC would put an APC requirement on all future radio 
designs.  Then we could have our high power radios and avoid the rats nest 
that always eventually comes with using higher power than what's needed.


For a point of reference.  I have a WiFi based 21 mile ptp link that gets 2 
megs of throughput.  These are only 17dB INDOOR radios, short lmr400 runs 
and 24dB grid antennas.


Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: Dustin Jurman [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 7:01 AM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Flawed Spectrum Analysis (I think!)



If the spectrum analyzer is left in place for a period of time and setup
with peak hold you will quickly find that radio that is used at the end 
of

the day. It still speaks, handshakes and more.

Just setting up big shots and blowing people out is bad business for
everyone. If the customer wants a quality shot then there should be no
problem doing a spectrum analysis, freq decision and installation shortly
after.

I agree it's only good for a certain amount of time, but if the customer
wants a reliable shot then due diligence is better than chance luck.

Dustin

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bob Moldashel
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 9:49 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Flawed Spectrum Analysis (I think!)

AUGH!


This whole thread..

Some have touched on pieces of it but how about this summary..

The Redline is a two piece radio.  It does not send 5 Ghz up the cable.
It sends an IF frequency which is lower and more forgiving as well as
power to operate the outdoor unit. The Redline as pointed out does not
have a spectrum analyzer (in the versions I have worked with).  As such
they probably just checked for RSL on any or all channels.  This is not
a spectrum analysis by any means. The Redline equipment is great
equipment but it is not a spectrum analyzer.

A spectrum analysis is flawed in almost any case really because it is
only good at the time of the testing and along the path of the test. You
really will only see stronger signals with an omni. But you can still
have your signal killed if someone is using directional antennas and
looking down your path. There is a big difference from 8 dB to 29 dB.

The other case is a 5 Ghz. system in place that only is used at the end
of the day or does dumps' at certain times.  Unlike a full duplex radio
like a Proxim Tsunami that is talking all the time regardless of the
received signal, you may only see a signal when the associated equipment
is passing data.

In my book you can't do reliable spectrum analysis with any radio or
assocaited radio card. Yes, there are systems out there that work really
well but I would not be willing to bet my reputation on most.  Will they
get you by in most cases???  Sure.
But...

To answer your question..Yes, the spectrum analysis was flawed.

Personally...we never do spectrum analysis.  It causes more headaches
than what it is worth IMHO.  Is it great for finding interference??  Sure.

I have installed links in lower Manhattan (nearly 70 to date on
unlicensed 5 Ghz), Washington DC and Boston without ever needing a
spectrum analysis. All these locations are RF hotbeds.

A few things to consider. Use a radio with a very good C/I value. Use 2'
or larger antennas to keep the beamwidth tight. Use radios that are
capable of 5 or 10 Mhz. channels.  Use radios with high RF power output.
If you need to run transmission line to the radio, use the right stuff
for the job. LMR400 and 5 Ghz. are not my considered options unless the
cable length is less than 24.  We use LMR600 up to 100' and 5/8 heliax
after that. make sure the radio has a good receiver threshold. Wherever
possible we use 5.3 Ghz.

Last and not least consider your neighbors. If there is only one tall
building in town and 

Re: [WISPA] Flawed Spectrum Analysis (I think!)

2006-02-10 Thread Bob Moldashel

Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:


I totally agree with Dustin here.

Hanging them without looking first is akin to running  a stop sign.  
You'll probably be fine, most of the time.  But..


It doesn't take long to look.

Bob's right, things can and almost always do get missed.  Dustin is 
also right though, one should find out as much as possible and make an 
informed decision as to what freq/channel to use.


Bob, I'm shocked to hear you say you don't look before you leap!  oy!



You crack me up!  :-)


And telling people to use high power radios.  Yikes.  Dude.  People 
should use as much power as it takes to do that job, not a drop more!  
ESPECIALLY in urban markets.  All a 40 dB fade margin does is cause 
interference 20 miles (literally) down the road.


Augh! Go back and re-read what I wrote.  Let me know if you need any 
help.  :-P




I sure wish the FCC would put an APC requirement on all future radio 
designs.  Then we could have our high power radios and avoid the rats 
nest that always eventually comes with using higher power than what's 
needed.


For a point of reference.  I have a WiFi based 21 mile ptp link that 
gets 2 megs of throughput.  These are only 17dB INDOOR radios, short 
lmr400 runs and 24dB grid antennas.


Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam




--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US  Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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Re: [WISPA] Flawed Spectrum Analysis (I think!)

2006-02-10 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181


- Original Message - 
From: Bob Moldashel [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 8:08 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Flawed Spectrum Analysis (I think!)



Cliff Leboeuf wrote:


Dustin, thanks for the encouraging support of my efforts.
Since we have been hired for part of this project, I believe it is my
RESPONSIBILITY to point out any known issues to the customer; and, it is
my responsibility to back up my concerns with hard date, not just 'my
feelings.' In the event that the data doesn't show what I know to be in
the area, I will at lease be on record for making them aware of other
5Ghz RF in the overlapping areas.

I am interested in any information that you are willing to supply for my
education.

Again, thanks for all of the feedback and discussion in my topic.
- Cliff



Cliff,

I can appreciate that you want to give your customer hard data. That is 
understandable. But you also need to have a list of conditions and 
presumptions as well as exceptions.


Make sure the customer understands that the spectrum analysis is only good 
for the date it was taken and does not guarantee interference free 
operation in the future. The last thing you need is to have the customer 
pay you to do an analysis today and deploy 90 days from now only to find 
issues.


Great point.  We ALWAYS do this.  And we also ALWAYS do a spectrum analysys. 
Sure we'll miss things, there's a LOT out there these days.  Conditions also 
change, sometimes between when we do the SA check and deploy hardware. 
However, we USUALLY learn a great deal about what's an option and what's not 
ahead of time.  It's pretty rare that we miss enough that we have to back up 
and start all over with a system design.


And I think that you can readily admit that there is a HUGE difference 
between running ptp links and ptmp links as far as interference exposure is 
concerned.  Most of our stuff is ptmp so we HAVE to look at much greater 
areas.


I DO know you and the amazing things you've done.  I still say you are a bad 
boy!  (in more ways than one, cackle)


Cliff, you are very much on the right track.  You need to tell them what you 
know so they can make informed dicisions.  I'd rather loose a customer 
because they didn't want to hear what I had to say than keep one that's not 
happy.


marlon



Otherwise...good luck with your customer.

-B-

--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US  Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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RE: [WISPA] Flawed Spectrum Analysis (I think!)

2006-02-10 Thread Cliff Leboeuf
Bob,

I understand you comments and totally agree.

They have been informed that any analysis is just a 'snapshot' of the
conditions at the time takes. Just like a picture from a camera.

Thanks again,
Cliff


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bob Moldashel
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 10:09 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Flawed Spectrum Analysis (I think!)

Cliff Leboeuf wrote:

Dustin, thanks for the encouraging support of my efforts. 

Since we have been hired for part of this project, I believe it is my
RESPONSIBILITY to point out any known issues to the customer; and, it
is
my responsibility to back up my concerns with hard date, not just 'my
feelings.' In the event that the data doesn't show what I know to be in
the area, I will at lease be on record for making them aware of other
5Ghz RF in the overlapping areas.

I am interested in any information that you are willing to supply for
my
education.

Again, thanks for all of the feedback and discussion in my topic.
- Cliff

  

Cliff,

I can appreciate that you want to give your customer hard data. That is 
understandable. But you also need to have a list of conditions and 
presumptions as well as exceptions.

Make sure the customer understands that the spectrum analysis is only 
good for the date it was taken and does not guarantee interference free 
operation in the future. The last thing you need is to have the customer

pay you to do an analysis today and deploy 90 days from now only to find

issues.

Otherwise...good luck with your customer.

-B-

-- 
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US  Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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Re: [WISPA] Flawed Spectrum Analysis (I think!)

2006-02-10 Thread JohnnyO




On Fri, 2006-02-10 at 10:17 -0500, Bob Moldashel wrote:


Dustin Jurman wrote:

If the spectrum analyzer is left in place for a period of time and setup
with peak hold you will quickly find that radio that is used at the end of
the day. It still speaks, handshakes and more. 
  


I don't know about you but I'm not about to leave a spectrum analyzer 
180' up a tower for any period of time.

Just setting up big shots and blowing people out is bad business for
everyone. 

I am not saying to blow people out of the water with power. I am saying 
to make sure you have ample power and gain to supply a solid signal. 
Running at -78 on a link is not a solid signal in my mind.  We only use 
equipment where we can control the power. We don't run full bore unlike 
alot of WISP operators. We don't plug radios like Motorola Canopy units 
into omni's. And my opinion is if I blow that guy off the air, so be 
it.  It was not properly engineered to begin with. It was finacially 
engineered to get by cheap.



I would have to agree here with Bob - Anyone engineering their links properly are going to use the best antennas with the narrowest beamwidth possible to mitigate any current or future interference. In my mind, an antenna that has 8deg beamwidth for a critical link is absolutely ignorant.





If the customer wants a quality shot then there should be no
problem doing a spectrum analysis, freq decision and installation shortly
after.  
  


But the point is moot if Johnny O comes along on your channel tomorrow 
and blows you off the air (I am only using him as an example).  Then the 
customer is all pissy because he spent money for spectrum analysis that 
was totally moot.


And this again is where the man with the better antennas will win hands down everytime. Even with a noisly spectrum in the area, lf you're using good antennas, chances are you'll knock someone down before they knock you down. It doesn't matter who was where first, what matters is that you run your own business or that of your customers with the most attention to mitigation of interference.

JohnnyO





I agree it's only good for a certain amount of time, but if the customer
wants a reliable shot then due diligence is better than chance luck.  
  


I don't think a properly engineered link is chance luck. We don't just 
pick a channel out of thin air and go with it. Alot of engineering goes 
into it. Spectrum analysis is just not a factor 99.999 percent of the time.

-B-

Dustin 
  



-- 
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US  Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell





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[WISPA] Re: [isp-wireless] Congress Is Rewriting the Broadband Laws in 2006

2006-02-10 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181

Good catch Jack!

Here's the letter I just sent to my congresswoman:

Dear Congresswoman McMorris,

As a long time (nearly a decade now) Internet Service Provider and founding
board member of the Wireless Internet Service Provider's Association
(www.wispa.org) I would like to talk with you or someone from your office.

There are many issues up in the air right now.  And many of the mechanisms
that have been in place over the years that have helped fuel the broadband
revolution are being destroyed.  The '96 telecom act has been all but
gutted.  Former FCC chairman Powell's work at supporting competition to the
cable/telco duopoly is in grave danger.  The spectrum auction system has
proven to be a disaster for broadband services yet looks like it'll be used
again.

With issues like this:
http://news.com.com/Broadband+law+rewrite+planned+for%20+2006/2100-1028_3-6036677.html?tag=nefd.top
And several open FCC spectrum policy issues on the table and teetering on
the edge of corporate giant vs. entrepreneurs I'm fearful that my industry
is about to be harmed by my own chosen party.

I can't make it out to DC at this time.  If there is a closer office that
you will be at or your best advisor on this issue will be at I'd love the
opportunity to set up a meeting with a handful of my peers.  We'd love the
opportunity to expose you to a segment of the broadband industry that
doesn't have billions per year in lobbing funding available like I've been
told the telco spends.

Thank you for your time.  I look forward to hearing from you.

P.S.  I love getting the news letters.  I'm glad you started using that
technology.

Sincerely,
Marlon K. Schafer
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 1:30 PM
Subject: [isp-wireless] Congress Is Rewriting the Broadband Laws in 2006


Just a heads-up for anyone interested in providing input to your 
representatives in the House and Senate regarding how rewriting the 
telecommunications laws will affect your business (either negatively or 
positively).


http://news.com.com/Broadband+law+rewrite+planned+for%20+2006/2100-1028_3-6036677.html?tag=nefd.top

Unless you raise your voice, your wishes and desires will remain ignored 
and unknown.


Said in another way... If you don't ask... the answer is NO.

--
Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.  Serving the 
License-Free Wireless Industry Since 1993

Author of the WISP Handbook - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs
True Vendor-Neutral WISP Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting
(Phone 818-227-4220 - VoIP Over Broadband Wireless)  www.ask-wi.com





** ISPCON Spring 2006 - May 16 - 18 - Baltimore, MD  www.ispcon.com **
** THE EVENT for ISPs, WISPS, CLECs and WebHosts **
** Going Wireless? Visit ISPCON before the leap! **

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[WISPA] SuperRange2 Info

2006-02-10 Thread Jason

List,

   Can someone tell me if the output power of the SuperRange2 card can 
be adjusted to any power output or just predetermined discrete levels, 
ie, 50mw, 100mw, 200mw.?  If only discrete levels, what are they?  I 
can't find web documentation for the SR2 anywhere.  Lastly, is there a 
mini-pci radio that can be adjusted to any output or at least 50mw?


Jason
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[WISPA] service contract prices

2006-02-10 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181

Hi All,

I've been asked to provide a network for a complex of buildings.

They like the ease of deployment and flexibility of a Trango based network.

I'll lock them into a 3 year contract that will match the time frame I'll 
need for a bank loan for the hardware.


I'll need to put in 3 ap's and 4 cpe units.  As well as battery backup units 
all installation work etc.  Additional cpe is possible but not guaranteed in 
the future.


My question is, what do I charge for this?  I can handle the monthly part 
but I've never put a service contract on a wlan before.  Used to do it in my 
copier days all the time so I understand the concept.  Just need some help 
with the numbers.


The site is about 1.5 hours from me, and that far from anyone else that 
knows anything about anything too.  I believe that the contract price should 
be tied to cpe deployed.


Too low and any repair work, device failures etc. will kill me.  Too high 
and I'll loose the deal.  What's standard in the industry?  As I'll be using 
Trango I'll hopefully be giving them 8 to 9 megs of throughput (all sites 
are within 1/8th of a mile) from building to building.  I'll likely only 
contract for 6 megs though.


thanks,
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



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RE: [WISPA] service contract prices

2006-02-10 Thread Cliff Leboeuf
Marlon,

A you going to keep ownership of the equipment and just provide them
with a connectivity solution; or, are you going to pass ownership to
them and just maintain the system for them?

- Cliff


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 11:57 AM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Cc: isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com
Subject: [WISPA] service contract prices

Hi All,

I've been asked to provide a network for a complex of buildings.

They like the ease of deployment and flexibility of a Trango based
network.

I'll lock them into a 3 year contract that will match the time frame
I'll 
need for a bank loan for the hardware.

I'll need to put in 3 ap's and 4 cpe units.  As well as battery backup
units 
all installation work etc.  Additional cpe is possible but not
guaranteed in 
the future.

My question is, what do I charge for this?  I can handle the monthly
part 
but I've never put a service contract on a wlan before.  Used to do it
in my 
copier days all the time so I understand the concept.  Just need some
help 
with the numbers.

The site is about 1.5 hours from me, and that far from anyone else that 
knows anything about anything too.  I believe that the contract price
should 
be tied to cpe deployed.

Too low and any repair work, device failures etc. will kill me.  Too
high 
and I'll loose the deal.  What's standard in the industry?  As I'll be
using 
Trango I'll hopefully be giving them 8 to 9 megs of throughput (all
sites 
are within 1/8th of a mile) from building to building.  I'll likely only

contract for 6 megs though.

thanks,
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



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RE: [WISPA] SuperRange2 Info

2006-02-10 Thread Rick Harnish
http://resources.mini-box.com/online/Super%20Range%202%20miniPCI/Super%20Ran
ge%202%20miniPCI-specs.pdf

You will have to convert dB to mW

http://my.athenet.net/~multiplx/cgi-bin/dbconv.main.cgi


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jason
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 12:43 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] SuperRange2 Info

List,

Can someone tell me if the output power of the SuperRange2 card can 
be adjusted to any power output or just predetermined discrete levels, 
ie, 50mw, 100mw, 200mw.?  If only discrete levels, what are they?  I 
can't find web documentation for the SR2 anywhere.  Lastly, is there a 
mini-pci radio that can be adjusted to any output or at least 50mw?

Jason
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Re: [WISPA] service contract prices

2006-02-10 Thread JohnnyO




I would strongly suggest looking at Mikrotik for the following reasons.

#1 - Pricing - very inexpensive to maintain and swap out equipment in the event of a failure
#2 - You can provide them up to 36meg connectivity for the same pricing anyone can offer then 10megs
#3 - Ease of replacements

You can also provide them Wi-Fi connectivity with a MT Based system for laptops in between the properties if they desire. The reason I suggest MT is the amount of flexibility and options you can tack are are far superior to any proprietory solution out there you can get your hands on. 

JohnnyO


On Fri, 2006-02-10 at 09:57 -0800, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:


Hi All,

I've been asked to provide a network for a complex of buildings.

They like the ease of deployment and flexibility of a Trango based network.

I'll lock them into a 3 year contract that will match the time frame I'll 
need for a bank loan for the hardware.

I'll need to put in 3 ap's and 4 cpe units.  As well as battery backup units 
all installation work etc.  Additional cpe is possible but not guaranteed in 
the future.

My question is, what do I charge for this?  I can handle the monthly part 
but I've never put a service contract on a wlan before.  Used to do it in my 
copier days all the time so I understand the concept.  Just need some help 
with the numbers.

The site is about 1.5 hours from me, and that far from anyone else that 
knows anything about anything too.  I believe that the contract price should 
be tied to cpe deployed.

Too low and any repair work, device failures etc. will kill me.  Too high 
and I'll loose the deal.  What's standard in the industry?  As I'll be using 
Trango I'll hopefully be giving them 8 to 9 megs of throughput (all sites 
are within 1/8th of a mile) from building to building.  I'll likely only 
contract for 6 megs though.

thanks,
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam







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Re: [WISPA] service contract prices

2006-02-10 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
The system will be mine.  But by the time it gets pulled out it's likely to 
be pretty obsolete.


Equipment costs will be handled separately from the service contract.
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: Cliff Leboeuf [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 10:20 AM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] service contract prices


Marlon,

A you going to keep ownership of the equipment and just provide them
with a connectivity solution; or, are you going to pass ownership to
them and just maintain the system for them?

- Cliff


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 11:57 AM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Cc: isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com
Subject: [WISPA] service contract prices

Hi All,

I've been asked to provide a network for a complex of buildings.

They like the ease of deployment and flexibility of a Trango based
network.

I'll lock them into a 3 year contract that will match the time frame
I'll
need for a bank loan for the hardware.

I'll need to put in 3 ap's and 4 cpe units.  As well as battery backup
units
all installation work etc.  Additional cpe is possible but not
guaranteed in
the future.

My question is, what do I charge for this?  I can handle the monthly
part
but I've never put a service contract on a wlan before.  Used to do it
in my
copier days all the time so I understand the concept.  Just need some
help
with the numbers.

The site is about 1.5 hours from me, and that far from anyone else that
knows anything about anything too.  I believe that the contract price
should
be tied to cpe deployed.

Too low and any repair work, device failures etc. will kill me.  Too
high
and I'll loose the deal.  What's standard in the industry?  As I'll be
using
Trango I'll hopefully be giving them 8 to 9 megs of throughput (all
sites
are within 1/8th of a mile) from building to building.  I'll likely only

contract for 6 megs though.

thanks,
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



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Re: [WISPA] service contract prices

2006-02-10 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181



Hiya Johnny,

This is a casino. The security and 
reliability requirements rule out any 802.11 type gear.

Marlon(509) 
982-2181 
Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 
(Vonage) 
Consulting services42846865 
(icq) 
And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  JohnnyO 
  To: WISPA General List 
  Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 10:42 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] service contract 
  prices
  I would strongly suggest looking at Mikrotik for the following 
  reasons.#1 - Pricing - very inexpensive to maintain and swap out 
  equipment in the event of a failure#2 - You can provide them up to 36meg 
  connectivity for the same pricing anyone can offer then 10megs#3 - Ease of 
  replacementsYou can also provide them Wi-Fi connectivity with a MT 
  Based system for laptops in between the properties if they desire. The reason 
  I suggest MT is the amount of flexibility and options you can tack are are far 
  superior to any proprietory solution out there you can get your hands on. 
  JohnnyOOn Fri, 2006-02-10 at 09:57 -0800, Marlon K. 
  Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: 
  Hi All,

I've been asked to provide a network for a complex of buildings.

They like the ease of deployment and flexibility of a Trango based network.

I'll lock them into a 3 year contract that will match the time frame I'll 
need for a bank loan for the hardware.

I'll need to put in 3 ap's and 4 cpe units.  As well as battery backup units 
all installation work etc.  Additional cpe is possible but not guaranteed in 
the future.

My question is, what do I charge for this?  I can handle the monthly part 
but I've never put a service contract on a wlan before.  Used to do it in my 
copier days all the time so I understand the concept.  Just need some help 
with the numbers.

The site is about 1.5 hours from me, and that far from anyone else that 
knows anything about anything too.  I believe that the contract price should 
be tied to cpe deployed.

Too low and any repair work, device failures etc. will kill me.  Too high 
and I'll loose the deal.  What's standard in the industry?  As I'll be using 
Trango I'll hopefully be giving them 8 to 9 megs of throughput (all sites 
are within 1/8th of a mile) from building to building.  I'll likely only 
contract for 6 megs though.

thanks,
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam




  
  

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RE: [WISPA] service contract prices

2006-02-10 Thread G.Villarini








Why 3 APs ?





Gino A. Villarini, 

Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

www.aeronetpr.com

787.273.4143













From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006
3:03 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] service
contract prices







Hiya Johnny,











This is a casino. The security and reliability
requirements rule out any 802.11 type gear.











Marlon
(509)
982-2181
Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910
(Vonage)
Consulting services
42846865
(icq)
And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam




















- Original Message - 





From: JohnnyO






To: WISPA General List






Sent: Friday, February
10, 2006 10:42 AM





Subject: Re: [WISPA]
service contract prices









I would strongly suggest looking at Mikrotik for the following reasons.

#1 - Pricing - very inexpensive to maintain and swap out equipment in the event
of a failure
#2 - You can provide them up to 36meg connectivity for the same pricing anyone
can offer then 10megs
#3 - Ease of replacements

You can also provide them Wi-Fi connectivity with a MT Based system for laptops
in between the properties if they desire. The reason I suggest MT is the amount
of flexibility and options you can tack are are far superior to any proprietory
solution out there you can get your hands on. 

JohnnyO


On Fri, 2006-02-10 at 09:57 -0800, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: 

Hi All,I've been asked to provide a network for a complex of buildings.They like the ease of deployment and flexibility of a Trango based network.I'll lock them into a 3 year contract that will match the time frame I'll need for a bank loan for the hardware.I'll need to put in 3 ap's and 4 cpe units. As well as battery backup units all installation work etc. Additional cpe is possible but not guaranteed in the future.My question is, what do I charge for this? I can handle the monthly part but I've never put a service contract on a wlan before. Used to do it in my copier days all the time so I understand the concept. Just need some help with the numbers.The site is about 1.5 hours from me, and that far from anyone else that knows anything about anything too. I believe that the contract price should be tied to cpe deployed.Too low and any repair work, device failures etc. will kill me. Too high and I'll loose the deal. What's standard in the industry? As I'll be using Trango I'll hopefully be giving them 8 to 9 megs of throughput (all sites are within 1/8th of a mile) from building to building. I'll likely only contract for 6 megs though.thanks,Marlon(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam







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Re: [WISPA] service contract prices

2006-02-10 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181



Need coverage in 3 different directions. And 
trango ap's only come with 60* sectors.

Plus, they'll likely put in some video surveillance 
and that will need lots of capacity so we're heading off any likely bw 
issues.

Marlon(509) 
982-2181 
Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 
(Vonage) 
Consulting services42846865 
(icq) 
And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  G.Villarini 
  
  To: 'WISPA General List' 
  Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 11:05 
  AM
  Subject: RE: [WISPA] service contract 
  prices
  
  
  Why 3 APs 
  ?
  
  
  Gino A. Villarini, 
  
  Aeronet Wireless 
  Broadband Corp.
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  www.aeronetpr.com
  787.273.4143
  
  
  
  
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
  Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 3:03 
  PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 
  WISPA General ListSubject: Re: [WISPA] service contract 
  prices
  
  
  Hiya 
  Johnny,
  
  
  
  This is a casino. The 
  security and reliability requirements rule out any 802.11 type 
  gear.
  
  
  
  Marlon(509) 
  982-2181 
  Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 
  (Vonage) 
  Consulting services42846865 
  (icq) 
  And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
  
  
  
  
  

- Original Message - 


From: JohnnyO 


To: WISPA General 
List 

Sent: Friday, 
February 10, 2006 10:42 AM

Subject: Re: 
[WISPA] service contract prices


I would strongly suggest looking at Mikrotik for the 
following reasons.#1 - Pricing - very inexpensive to maintain and 
swap out equipment in the event of a failure#2 - You can provide them up 
to 36meg connectivity for the same pricing anyone can offer then 
10megs#3 - Ease of replacementsYou can also provide them Wi-Fi 
connectivity with a MT Based system for laptops in between the properties if 
they desire. The reason I suggest MT is the amount of flexibility and 
options you can tack are are far superior to any proprietory solution out 
there you can get your hands on. JohnnyOOn Fri, 
2006-02-10 at 09:57 -0800, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: 
Hi All,I've been asked to provide a network for a complex of buildings.They like the ease of deployment and flexibility of a Trango based network.I'll lock them into a 3 year contract that will match the time frame I'll need for a bank loan for the hardware.I'll need to put in 3 ap's and 4 cpe units. As well as battery backup units all installation work etc. Additional cpe is possible but not guaranteed in the future.My question is, what do I charge for this? I can handle the monthly part but I've never put a service contract on a wlan before. Used to do it in my copier days all the time so I understand the concept. Just need some help with the numbers.The site is about 1.5 hours from me, and that far from anyone else that knows anything about anything too. I believe that the contract price should be tied to cpe deployed.Too low and any repair work, device failures etc. will kill me. Too high and I'll loose the deal. What's standard in the industry? As I'll be using Trango I'll hopefully be giving them 8 to 9 megs of throughput (all sites are within 1/8th of a mile) from building to building. I'll likely only contract for 6 megs though.thanks,Marlon(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



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RE: [WISPA] service contract prices

2006-02-10 Thread G.Villarini








1 suggestion, Last Mile Gear Canopy
Advantage Omni





Gino A. Villarini, 

Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

www.aeronetpr.com

787.273.4143













From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509)
982-2181
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006
3:17 PM
To: WISPA
 General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] service
contract prices







Need coverage in 3 different directions. And trango
ap's only come with 60* sectors.











Plus, they'll likely put in some video surveillance and that
will need lots of capacity so we're heading off any likely bw issues.











Marlon
(509) 982-2181
Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910
(Vonage)
Consulting services
42846865
(icq)
And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam




















- Original Message - 





From: G.Villarini 





To: 'WISPA General
List' 





Sent: Friday, February
10, 2006 11:05 AM





Subject: RE: [WISPA]
service contract prices









Why 3 APs ?





Gino A. Villarini, 

Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

www.aeronetpr.com

787.273.4143













From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006
3:03 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] service
contract prices







Hiya Johnny,











This is a casino. The security and reliability
requirements rule out any 802.11 type gear.











Marlon
(509)
982-2181
Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910
(Vonage)
Consulting services
42846865
(icq)
And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam




















- Original Message - 





From: JohnnyO






To: WISPA General List






Sent: Friday, February
10, 2006 10:42 AM





Subject: Re: [WISPA]
service contract prices









I would strongly suggest looking at Mikrotik for the following reasons.

#1 - Pricing - very inexpensive to maintain and swap out equipment in the event
of a failure
#2 - You can provide them up to 36meg connectivity for the same pricing anyone
can offer then 10megs
#3 - Ease of replacements

You can also provide them Wi-Fi connectivity with a MT Based system for laptops
in between the properties if they desire. The reason I suggest MT is the amount
of flexibility and options you can tack are are far superior to any proprietory
solution out there you can get your hands on. 

JohnnyO


On Fri, 2006-02-10 at 09:57 -0800, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: 

Hi All,I've been asked to provide a network for a complex of buildings.They like the ease of deployment and flexibility of a Trango based network.I'll lock them into a 3 year contract that will match the time frame I'll need for a bank loan for the hardware.I'll need to put in 3 ap's and 4 cpe units. As well as battery backup units all installation work etc. Additional cpe is possible but not guaranteed in the future.My question is, what do I charge for this? I can handle the monthly part but I've never put a service contract on a wlan before. Used to do it in my copier days all the time so I understand the concept. Just need some help with the numbers.The site is about 1.5 hours from me, and that far from anyone else that knows anything about anything too. I believe that the contract price should be tied to cpe deployed.Too low and any repair work, device failures etc. will kill me. Too high and I'll loose the deal. What's standard in the industry? As I'll be using Trango I'll hopefully be giving them 8 to 9 megs of throughput (all sites are within 1/8th of a mile) from building to building. I'll likely only contract for 6 megs though.thanks,Marlon(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam







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Re: [WISPA] service contract prices

2006-02-10 Thread John Scrivner
$40 to $80 per location per month should do the trick. My old High 
School is doing this with me and I am charging $250 per month contract 
to service about 6 buildings. They get connectivity every place they 
want and I get a monthly fee to keep it running. By the way, I retain 
ownership of all outdoor equipment on this network and they keep inside 
equipment as their own. If their gear breaks they pay to replace. If my 
gear breaks it is my problem. This allows you to use the outside gear 
for other possible networks and such.if you desire.

Cheers,
Scriv


Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:


Hi All,

I've been asked to provide a network for a complex of buildings.

They like the ease of deployment and flexibility of a Trango based 
network.


I'll lock them into a 3 year contract that will match the time frame 
I'll need for a bank loan for the hardware.


I'll need to put in 3 ap's and 4 cpe units.  As well as battery backup 
units all installation work etc.  Additional cpe is possible but not 
guaranteed in the future.


My question is, what do I charge for this?  I can handle the monthly 
part but I've never put a service contract on a wlan before.  Used to 
do it in my copier days all the time so I understand the concept.  
Just need some help with the numbers.


The site is about 1.5 hours from me, and that far from anyone else 
that knows anything about anything too.  I believe that the contract 
price should be tied to cpe deployed.


Too low and any repair work, device failures etc. will kill me.  Too 
high and I'll loose the deal.  What's standard in the industry?  As 
I'll be using Trango I'll hopefully be giving them 8 to 9 megs of 
throughput (all sites are within 1/8th of a mile) from building to 
building.  I'll likely only contract for 6 megs though.


thanks,
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam




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Re: [WISPA] service contract prices

2006-02-10 Thread Mark Nash



Heard yesterday from Trango thatthey (in 
about a month) will come out with a connectorized version of the 5830 AP and 
will certify a Pacwireless omni  hpol sector.
Mark NashNetwork EngineerUnwiredOnline.Net350 Holly 
StreetJunction City, OR 97448http://www.uwol.net541-998-541-998-5599 
fax

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Marlon K. 
  Schafer (509) 982-2181 
  To: WISPA General List 
  Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 11:17 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] service contract 
  prices
  
  Need coverage in 3 different directions. 
  And trango ap's only come with 60* sectors.
  
  Plus, they'll likely put in some video 
  surveillance and that will need lots of capacity so we're heading off any 
  likely bw issues.
  
  Marlon(509) 
  982-2181 
  Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 
  (Vonage) 
  Consulting services42846865 
  (icq) 
  And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
  
  
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
G.Villarini 

To: 'WISPA General List' 
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 11:05 
AM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] service contract 
prices


Why 3 APs 
?


Gino A. Villarini, 

Aeronet Wireless 
Broadband Corp.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.aeronetpr.com
787.273.4143





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 3:03 
PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 
WISPA General ListSubject: Re: [WISPA] service contract 
prices


Hiya 
Johnny,



This is a casino. The 
security and reliability requirements rule out any 802.11 type 
gear.



Marlon(509) 
982-2181 
Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 
(Vonage) 
Consulting services42846865 
(icq) 
And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam





  
  - Original Message - 
  
  
  From: JohnnyO 
  
  
  To: WISPA General 
  List 
  
  Sent: 
  Friday, February 10, 2006 10:42 AM
  
  Subject: Re: 
  [WISPA] service contract prices
  
  
  I would strongly suggest looking at Mikrotik for 
  the following reasons.#1 - Pricing - very inexpensive to maintain 
  and swap out equipment in the event of a failure#2 - You can provide 
  them up to 36meg connectivity for the same pricing anyone can offer then 
  10megs#3 - Ease of replacementsYou can also provide them Wi-Fi 
  connectivity with a MT Based system for laptops in between the properties 
  if they desire. The reason I suggest MT is the amount of flexibility and 
  options you can tack are are far superior to any proprietory solution out 
  there you can get your hands on. JohnnyOOn Fri, 
  2006-02-10 at 09:57 -0800, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: 
  Hi All,I've been asked to provide a network for a complex of buildings.They like the ease of deployment and flexibility of a Trango based network.I'll lock them into a 3 year contract that will match the time frame I'll need for a bank loan for the hardware.I'll need to put in 3 ap's and 4 cpe units. As well as battery backup units all installation work etc. Additional cpe is possible but not guaranteed in the future.My question is, what do I charge for this? I can handle the monthly part but I've never put a service contract on a wlan before. Used to do it in my copier days all the time so I understand the concept. Just need some help with the numbers.The site is about 1.5 hours from me, and that far from anyone else that knows anything about anything too. I believe that the contract price should be tied to cpe deployed.Too low and any repair work, device failures etc. will kill me. Too high and I'll loose the deal. What's standard in the industry? As I'll be using Trango I'll hopefully be giving them 8 to 9 megs of throughput (all sites are within 1/8th of a mile) from building to building. I'll likely only contract for 6 megs though.thanks,Marlon(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
  
  
  
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Re: [WISPA] service contract prices

2006-02-10 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181



I know I work with EC. And I know people like 
Canopy. I know I'm only supposed to say nice things.

But Motorola is STILL working hard at the FCC level 
to hamstring this industry. I'll not support them unless there are no 
other choices. I won't even use a moto cell phone at this point, I'm so 
discussed with what they've been doing at the FCC.

Marlon(509) 
982-2181 
Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 
(Vonage) 
Consulting services42846865 
(icq) 
And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  G.Villarini 
  
  To: 'WISPA General List' 
  Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 11:19 
  AM
  Subject: RE: [WISPA] service contract 
  prices
  
  
  1 suggestion, Last 
  Mile Gear Canopy Advantage Omni
  
  
  Gino A. Villarini, 
  
  Aeronet Wireless 
  Broadband Corp.
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  www.aeronetpr.com
  787.273.4143
  
  
  
  
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
  Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 3:17 
  PMTo: WISPA General ListSubject: Re: [WISPA] service contract 
  prices
  
  
  Need coverage in 3 different 
  directions. And trango ap's only come with 60* 
  sectors.
  
  
  
  Plus, they'll likely put in some 
  video surveillance and that will need lots of capacity so we're heading off 
  any likely bw issues.
  
  
  
  Marlon(509) 
  982-2181 
  Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 
  (Vonage) 
  Consulting services42846865 
  (icq) 
  And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
  
  
  
  
  

- Original Message - 


From: G.Villarini 


To: 'WISPA General 
List' 

Sent: Friday, 
February 10, 2006 11:05 AM

Subject: RE: 
[WISPA] service contract prices


Why 3 APs 
?


Gino A. Villarini, 

Aeronet Wireless 
Broadband Corp.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.aeronetpr.com
787.273.4143





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 3:03 
PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 
WISPA General ListSubject: Re: [WISPA] service contract 
prices


Hiya 
Johnny,



This is a casino. The 
security and reliability requirements rule out any 802.11 type 
gear.



Marlon(509) 
982-2181 
Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 
(Vonage) 
Consulting services42846865 
(icq) 
And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam





  
  - Original Message - 
  
  
  From: JohnnyO 
  
  
  To: WISPA General 
  List 
  
  Sent: 
  Friday, February 10, 2006 10:42 AM
  
  Subject: Re: 
  [WISPA] service contract prices
  
  
  I would strongly suggest looking at Mikrotik for 
  the following reasons.#1 - Pricing - very inexpensive to maintain 
  and swap out equipment in the event of a failure#2 - You can provide 
  them up to 36meg connectivity for the same pricing anyone can offer then 
  10megs#3 - Ease of replacementsYou can also provide them Wi-Fi 
  connectivity with a MT Based system for laptops in between the properties 
  if they desire. The reason I suggest MT is the amount of flexibility and 
  options you can tack are are far superior to any proprietory solution out 
  there you can get your hands on. JohnnyOOn Fri, 
  2006-02-10 at 09:57 -0800, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: 
  Hi All,I've been asked to provide a network for a complex of buildings.They like the ease of deployment and flexibility of a Trango based network.I'll lock them into a 3 year contract that will match the time frame I'll need for a bank loan for the hardware.I'll need to put in 3 ap's and 4 cpe units. As well as battery backup units all installation work etc. Additional cpe is possible but not guaranteed in the future.My question is, what do I charge for this? I can handle the monthly part but I've never put a service contract on a wlan before. Used to do it in my copier days all the time so I understand the concept. Just need some help with the numbers.The site is about 1.5 hours from me, and that far from anyone else that knows anything about anything too. I believe that the contract price should be tied to cpe deployed.Too low and any repair work, device failures etc. will kill me. Too high and I'll loose the deal. What's standard in the industry? As I'll be using Trango I'll hopefully be giving them 8 to 9 megs of throughput (all sites are within 1/8th of a mile) from building to building. I'll likely only contract for 6 megs though.thanks,Marlon(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 (Vonage) 

Re: [WISPA] service contract prices

2006-02-10 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181

That's pretty close to what I was thinking.

Thanks,
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 11:29 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] service contract prices


$40 to $80 per location per month should do the trick. My old High 
School is doing this with me and I am charging $250 per month contract 
to service about 6 buildings. They get connectivity every place they 
want and I get a monthly fee to keep it running. By the way, I retain 
ownership of all outdoor equipment on this network and they keep inside 
equipment as their own. If their gear breaks they pay to replace. If my 
gear breaks it is my problem. This allows you to use the outside gear 
for other possible networks and such.if you desire.

Cheers,
Scriv


Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:


Hi All,

I've been asked to provide a network for a complex of buildings.

They like the ease of deployment and flexibility of a Trango based 
network.


I'll lock them into a 3 year contract that will match the time frame 
I'll need for a bank loan for the hardware.


I'll need to put in 3 ap's and 4 cpe units.  As well as battery backup 
units all installation work etc.  Additional cpe is possible but not 
guaranteed in the future.


My question is, what do I charge for this?  I can handle the monthly 
part but I've never put a service contract on a wlan before.  Used to 
do it in my copier days all the time so I understand the concept.  
Just need some help with the numbers.


The site is about 1.5 hours from me, and that far from anyone else 
that knows anything about anything too.  I believe that the contract 
price should be tied to cpe deployed.


Too low and any repair work, device failures etc. will kill me.  Too 
high and I'll loose the deal.  What's standard in the industry?  As 
I'll be using Trango I'll hopefully be giving them 8 to 9 megs of 
throughput (all sites are within 1/8th of a mile) from building to 
building.  I'll likely only contract for 6 megs though.


thanks,
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam




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Re: Was - [WISPA] service contract prices - What is moto doing?

2006-02-10 Thread Dan Petermann
What are they doing at the FCC??Can you point me to a few links or otherwise enlighten me?On Feb 10, 2006, at 1:07 PM, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: I know I work with EC.  And I know people like Canopy.  I know I'm only supposed to say nice things.   But Motorola is STILL working hard at the FCC level to hamstring this industry.  I'll not support them unless there are no other choices.  I won't even use a moto cell phone at this point, I'm so discussed with what they've been doing at the FCC.   Marlon(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)    Consulting services42846865 (icq)    And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam       - Original Message -   From:   G.Villarini To: 'WISPA General List'   Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 11:19   AM  Subject: RE: [WISPA] service contract   prices1 suggestion, Last   Mile Gear Canopy Advantage Omni   Gino A. Villarini,   Aeronet Wireless   Broadband Corp.[EMAIL PROTECTED]www.aeronetpr.com787.273.4143 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]   [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On   Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 3:17   PMTo: WISPA General ListSubject: Re: [WISPA] service contract   prices   Need coverage in 3 different   directions.  And trango ap's only come with 60*   sectors.     Plus, they'll likely put in some   video surveillance and that will need lots of capacity so we're heading off   any likely bw issues.     Marlon(509)   982-2181     Equipment sales(408) 907-6910   (Vonage)      Consulting services42846865   (icq)      And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam        - Original Message - From: G.Villarini To: 'WISPA General List' Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 11:05 AMSubject: RE: [WISPA] service contract prices Why 3 APs ? Gino A. Villarini, Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.[EMAIL PROTECTED]www.aeronetpr.com787.273.4143 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 3:03 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General ListSubject: Re: [WISPA] service contract prices Hiya Johnny, This is a casino.  The security and reliability requirements rule out any 802.11 type gear. Marlon(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)    Consulting services42846865 (icq)    And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam    - Original Message - From: JohnnyO To: WISPA General   List   Sent:   Friday, February 10, 2006 10:42 AM  Subject: Re:   [WISPA] service contract prices   I would strongly suggest looking at Mikrotik for   the following reasons.#1 - Pricing - very inexpensive to maintain   and swap out equipment in the event of a failure#2 - You can provide   them up to 36meg connectivity for the same pricing anyone can offer then   10megs#3 - Ease of replacementsYou can also provide them Wi-Fi   connectivity with a MT Based system for laptops in between the properties   if they desire. The reason I suggest MT is the amount of flexibility and   options you can tack are are far superior to any proprietory solution out   there you can get your hands on. JohnnyOOn Fri,   2006-02-10 at 09:57 -0800, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:   Hi All, I've been asked to provide a network for a complex of buildings. They like the ease of deployment and flexibility of a Trango based network. I'll lock them into a 3 year contract that will match the time frame I'll need for a bank loan for the hardware. I'll need to put in 3 ap's and 4 cpe units.  As well as battery backup units all installation work etc.  Additional cpe is possible but not guaranteed in the future. My question is, what do I charge for this?  I can handle the monthly part but I've never put a service contract on a wlan before.  Used to do it in my copier days all the time so I understand the concept.  Just need some help with the numbers. The site is about 1.5 hours from me, and that far from anyone else that knows anything about anything too.  I believe that the contract price should be tied to cpe deployed. Too low and any repair work, device failures etc. will kill me.  Too high and I'll loose the deal.  What's standard in the industry?  As I'll be using Trango I'll hopefully be giving them 8 to 9 megs of throughput (all sites are within 1/8th of a mile) from 

RE: Was - [WISPA] service contract prices - What is moto doing?

2006-02-10 Thread G.Villarini








The Cellular Sector is pushing for
licensing the 3.65 band You got to understand that MOTO is huge
organization not like other Manufacturers. And The Cellular Division is
pushing for licensing the 3.65 band so they can sell more BTS to the Cell operators.AFAIK,
the Canopy group has nothing to do with this since they are on another Division



Sometimes your right hand doesnt
know what the left is doing Not the case with smaller guys like Trango,
which only serve a handful of markets





Gino A. Villarini, 

Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

www.aeronetpr.com

787.273.4143













From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dan Petermann
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006
4:16 PM
To: WISPA
 General List
Subject: Re: Was - [WISPA] service
contract prices - What is moto doing?





What are they doing at the FCC??









Can you point me to a few links or otherwise enlighten me?

















On Feb 10, 2006, at 1:07 PM, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:









I
know I work with EC. And I know people like Canopy. I know I'm only supposed to
say nice things.





But Motorola is STILL working hard at the FCC level to
hamstring this industry. I'll not support them unless there are no other
choices. I won't even use a moto cell phone at this point, I'm so discussed
with what they've been doing at the FCC.





Marlon
(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services
42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam













- Original Message - 





From: G.Villarini 





To: 'WISPA General
List' 





Sent: Friday, February
10, 2006 11:19 AM





Subject: RE: [WISPA]
service contract prices











1 suggestion, Last Mile Gear Canopy Advantage Omni



Gino A. Villarini, 



Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.



[EMAIL PROTECTED]



www.aeronetpr.com



787.273.4143













From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
(509) 982-2181
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006
3:17 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] service
contract prices





Need
coverage in 3 different directions. And trango ap's only come with 60* sectors.





Plus,
they'll likely put in some video surveillance and that will need lots of
capacity so we're heading off any likely bw issues.





Marlon
(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services
42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam

















-
Original Message - 





From: G.Villarini 





To: 'WISPA General List' 





Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 11:05 AM





Subject: RE: [WISPA] service contract prices



Why 3 APs ?



Gino A. Villarini, 



Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.



[EMAIL PROTECTED]



www.aeronetpr.com



787.273.4143













From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
(509) 982-2181
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006
3:03 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] service
contract prices





Hiya
Johnny,





This
is a casino. The security and reliability requirements rule out any 802.11 type
gear.





Marlon
(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services
42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam

















-
Original Message - 





From: JohnnyO






To: WISPA General List 





Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 10:42 AM





Subject: Re: [WISPA] service contract prices



I would
strongly suggest looking at Mikrotik for the following reasons.

#1 - Pricing - very inexpensive to maintain and swap out equipment in the event
of a failure
#2 - You can provide them up to 36meg connectivity for the same pricing anyone
can offer then 10megs
#3 - Ease of replacements

You can also provide them Wi-Fi connectivity with a MT Based system for laptops
in between the properties if they desire. The reason I suggest MT is the amount
of flexibility and options you can tack are are far superior to any proprietory
solution out there you can get your hands on. 

JohnnyO


On Fri, 2006-02-10 at 09:57 -0800, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: 

Hi All, I've been asked to provide a network for a complex of buildings. They like the ease of deployment and flexibility of a Trango based network. I'll lock them into a 3 year contract that will match the time frame I'll need for a bank loan for the hardware. I'll need to put in 3 ap's and 4 cpe units. As well as battery backup units all installation work etc. Additional cpe is possible but not guaranteed in the future. My question is, what do I charge for this? I can handle the monthly part but I've never put a service contract on a wlan before. Used to do it in my copier days all the time so I 

RE: [WISPA] service contract prices

2006-02-10 Thread G.Villarini








Ohh and you like Trango even tough they
pulled the plug on Distis like EC ? ..





Gino A. Villarini, 

Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

www.aeronetpr.com

787.273.4143













From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509)
982-2181
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006
4:08 PM
To: WISPA
 General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] service
contract prices







I know I work with EC. And I know people like
Canopy. I know I'm only supposed to say nice things.











But Motorola is STILL working hard at the FCC level to
hamstring this industry. I'll not support them unless there are no other
choices. I won't even use a moto cell phone at this point, I'm so
discussed with what they've been doing at the FCC.











Marlon
(509)
982-2181
Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910
(Vonage)
Consulting services
42846865
(icq)
And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam




















- Original Message - 





From: G.Villarini 





To: 'WISPA General
List' 





Sent: Friday, February
10, 2006 11:19 AM





Subject: RE: [WISPA]
service contract prices









1 suggestion, Last Mile Gear Canopy
Advantage Omni





Gino A. Villarini, 

Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

www.aeronetpr.com

787.273.4143













From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006
3:17 PM
To: WISPA
 General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] service
contract prices







Need coverage in 3 different directions. And trango
ap's only come with 60* sectors.











Plus, they'll likely put in some video surveillance and that
will need lots of capacity so we're heading off any likely bw issues.











Marlon
(509)
982-2181
Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910
(Vonage)
Consulting services
42846865
(icq)
And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam




















- Original Message - 





From: G.Villarini 





To: 'WISPA General
List' 





Sent: Friday, February
10, 2006 11:05 AM





Subject: RE: [WISPA]
service contract prices









Why 3 APs ?





Gino A. Villarini, 

Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

www.aeronetpr.com

787.273.4143













From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006
3:03 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] service
contract prices







Hiya Johnny,











This is a casino. The security and reliability
requirements rule out any 802.11 type gear.











Marlon
(509)
982-2181
Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910
(Vonage)
Consulting services
42846865
(icq)
And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam




















- Original Message - 





From: JohnnyO






To: WISPA General List






Sent: Friday, February
10, 2006 10:42 AM





Subject: Re: [WISPA]
service contract prices









I would strongly suggest looking at Mikrotik for the following reasons.

#1 - Pricing - very inexpensive to maintain and swap out equipment in the event
of a failure
#2 - You can provide them up to 36meg connectivity for the same pricing anyone
can offer then 10megs
#3 - Ease of replacements

You can also provide them Wi-Fi connectivity with a MT Based system for laptops
in between the properties if they desire. The reason I suggest MT is the amount
of flexibility and options you can tack are are far superior to any proprietory
solution out there you can get your hands on. 

JohnnyO


On Fri, 2006-02-10 at 09:57 -0800, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: 

Hi All,I've been asked to provide a network for a complex of buildings.They like the ease of deployment and flexibility of a Trango based network.I'll lock them into a 3 year contract that will match the time frame I'll need for a bank loan for the hardware.I'll need to put in 3 ap's and 4 cpe units. As well as battery backup units all installation work etc. Additional cpe is possible but not guaranteed in the future.My question is, what do I charge for this? I can handle the monthly part but I've never put a service contract on a wlan before. Used to do it in my copier days all the time so I understand the concept. Just need some help with the numbers.The site is about 1.5 hours from me, and that far from anyone else that knows anything about anything too. I believe that the contract price should be tied to cpe deployed.Too low and any repair work, device failures etc. will kill me. Too high and I'll loose the deal. What's standard in the industry? As I'll be using Trango I'll hopefully be giving them 8 to 9 megs of throughput (all sites are within 1/8th of a mile) from building to building. I'll likely only contract for 6 megs 

Re: [WISPA] service contract prices

2006-02-10 Thread Mac Dearman

Marlon,

 You can open up the Trango 5830AP case and there are already 
connectors in there. Just unplug the ones to the internal antenna and 
plug in the new MMCX to NFemale adapter, drill out the hole for the 
NFemale(or your choice) either in the side or through the plastic front. 
Its easy and very cost effective :-)  - - - just don't over tighten the 
housing screws as they are self tapping and will pull all your threads out.
  
Good Luck on your Casino deal!!


Mac




Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:

I know I work with EC.  And I know people like Canopy.  I know I'm 
only supposed to say nice things.
 
But Motorola is STILL working hard at the FCC level to hamstring this 
industry.  I'll not support them unless there are no other choices.  I 
won't even use a moto cell phone at this point, I'm so discussed with 
what they've been doing at the FCC.
 
Marlon

(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless http://www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam http://www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
 

 


- Original Message -
*From:* G.Villarini mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*To:* 'WISPA General List' mailto:wireless@wispa.org
*Sent:* Friday, February 10, 2006 11:19 AM
*Subject:* RE: [WISPA] service contract prices

1 suggestion, Last Mile Gear Canopy Advantage Omni

 


Gino A. Villarini,

Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

www.aeronetpr.com http://www.aeronetpr.com

787.273.4143

 




*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Marlon K.
Schafer (509) 982-2181
*Sent:* Friday, February 10, 2006 3:17 PM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] service contract prices

 


Need coverage in 3 different directions.  And trango ap's only
come with 60* sectors.

 


Plus, they'll likely put in some video surveillance and that will
need lots of capacity so we're heading off any likely bw issues.

 


Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own
wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless http://www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
http://www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam

 



 


- Original Message -

*From:* G.Villarini mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

*To:* 'WISPA General List' mailto:wireless@wispa.org

*Sent:* Friday, February 10, 2006 11:05 AM

*Subject:* RE: [WISPA] service contract prices

 


Why 3 APs ?

 


Gino A. Villarini,

Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

www.aeronetpr.com http://www.aeronetpr.com

787.273.4143

 




*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Marlon K.
Schafer (509) 982-2181
*Sent:* Friday, February 10, 2006 3:03 PM
*To:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] service contract prices

 


Hiya Johnny,

 


This is a casino.  The security and reliability requirements
rule out any 802.11 type gear.

 


Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my
own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
http://www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
http://www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam

 



 


- Original Message -

*From:* JohnnyO mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

*To:* WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org

*Sent:* Friday, February 10, 2006 10:42 AM

*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] service contract prices

 


I would strongly suggest looking at Mikrotik for the
following reasons.

#1 - Pricing - very inexpensive to maintain and swap out
equipment in the event of a failure
#2 - You can provide them up to 36meg connectivity for the
same pricing anyone can offer then 

Re: [WISPA] service contract prices

2006-02-10 Thread Mac Dearman
 I have talked to Trango ( as a matter of fact they visited me here 
Tuesday) at length about that issue Gino and they had reasons for 
pulling their VAR's and resellers. I kinda figured it had something to 
do with the new products and lack of a LARGE profit margin :-)


Mac


G.Villarini wrote:

Ohh and you like Trango even tough they pulled the plug on Distis like 
EC ? …..


Gino A. Villarini,

Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

www.aeronetpr.com http://www.aeronetpr.com/

787.273.4143



*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
*On Behalf Of *Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181

*Sent:* Friday, February 10, 2006 4:08 PM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] service contract prices

I know I work with EC. And I know people like Canopy. I know I'm only 
supposed to say nice things.


But Motorola is STILL working hard at the FCC level to hamstring this 
industry. I'll not support them unless there are no other choices. I 
won't even use a moto cell phone at this point, I'm so discussed with 
what they've been doing at the FCC.


Marlon
(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services
42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless http://www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam http://www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam


- Original Message -

*From:* G.Villarini mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

*To:* 'WISPA General List' mailto:wireless@wispa.org

*Sent:* Friday, February 10, 2006 11:19 AM

*Subject:* RE: [WISPA] service contract prices

1 suggestion, Last Mile Gear Canopy Advantage Omni

Gino A. Villarini,

Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

www.aeronetpr.com http://www.aeronetpr.com

787.273.4143



*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Marlon K.
Schafer (509) 982-2181
*Sent:* Friday, February 10, 2006 3:17 PM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] service contract prices

Need coverage in 3 different directions. And trango ap's only come
with 60* sectors.

Plus, they'll likely put in some video surveillance and that will
need lots of capacity so we're heading off any likely bw issues.

Marlon
(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services
42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless http://www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
http://www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam


- Original Message -

*From:* G.Villarini mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

*To:* 'WISPA General List' mailto:wireless@wispa.org

*Sent:* Friday, February 10, 2006 11:05 AM

*Subject:* RE: [WISPA] service contract prices

Why 3 APs ?

Gino A. Villarini,

Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

www.aeronetpr.com http://www.aeronetpr.com

787.273.4143



*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Marlon K.
Schafer (509) 982-2181
*Sent:* Friday, February 10, 2006 3:03 PM
*To:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] service contract prices

Hiya Johnny,

This is a casino. The security and reliability requirements
rule out any 802.11 type gear.

Marlon
(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services
42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
http://www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
http://www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam


- Original Message -

*From:* JohnnyO mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

*To:* WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org

*Sent:* Friday, February 10, 2006 10:42 AM

*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] service contract prices

I would strongly suggest looking at Mikrotik for the
following reasons.

#1 - Pricing - very inexpensive to maintain and swap out
equipment in the event of a failure
#2 - You can provide them up to 36meg connectivity for the
same pricing anyone can offer then 10megs
#3 - Ease of replacements

You can also provide them Wi-Fi connectivity with a MT
Based system for 

Re: Was - [WISPA] service contract prices - What is moto doing?

2006-02-10 Thread Dan Petermann
Ok, Thanks.I use to work for a large corp., they seem to like to shoot their own feet off.On Feb 10, 2006, at 1:24 PM, G.Villarini wrote: The Cellular Sector is pushing for licensing the 3.65 band… You got to understand that MOTO is huge organization not like other Manufacturers.  And The Cellular Division is pushing for licensing the 3.65 band so they can sell more BTS to the Cell operators….AFAIK, the Canopy group has nothing to do with this since they are on another Division… Sometimes your right hand doesn’t know what the left is doing …Not the case with smaller guys like Trango, which only serve a handful of markets  Gino A. Villarini, Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.[EMAIL PROTECTED]www.aeronetpr.com787.273.4143  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Dan Petermann Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 4:16 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: Was - [WISPA] service contract prices - What is moto doing?  What are they doing at the FCC??    Can you point me to a few links or otherwise enlighten me?        On Feb 10, 2006, at 1:07 PM, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:I know I work with EC. And I know people like Canopy. I know I'm only supposed to say nice things.  But Motorola is STILL working hard at the FCC level to hamstring this industry. I'll not support them unless there are no other choices. I won't even use a moto cell phone at this point, I'm so discussed with what they've been doing at the FCC.  Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services 42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam      - Original Message -   From: G.Villarini   To: 'WISPA General List'   Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 11:19 AM  Subject: RE: [WISPA] service contract prices     1 suggestion, Last Mile Gear Canopy Advantage Omni Gino A. Villarini,  Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.aeronetpr.com 787.273.4143  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 3:17 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] service contract prices  Need coverage in 3 different directions. And trango ap's only come with 60* sectors.  Plus, they'll likely put in some video surveillance and that will need lots of capacity so we're heading off any likely bw issues.  Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services 42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam- Original Message -   From: G.Villarini   To: 'WISPA General List'   Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 11:05 AM  Subject: RE: [WISPA] service contract prices Why 3 APs ? Gino A. Villarini,  Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.aeronetpr.com 787.273.4143  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 3:03 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] service contract prices  Hiya Johnny,  This is a casino. The security and reliability requirements rule out any 802.11 type gear.  Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services 42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam- Original Message -   From: JohnnyO   To: WISPA General List   Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 10:42 AM  Subject: Re: [WISPA] service contract prices I would strongly suggest looking at Mikrotik for the following reasons.  #1 - Pricing - very inexpensive to maintain and swap out equipment in the event of a failure #2 - You can provide them up to 36meg connectivity for the same pricing anyone can offer then 10megs #3 - Ease of replacements  You can also provide them Wi-Fi connectivity with a MT Based system for laptops in between the properties if they desire. The reason I suggest MT is the amount of flexibility and options you can tack are are far superior to any proprietory solution out there you can get your hands on.   JohnnyO   On Fri, 2006-02-10 at 09:57 -0800, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:  Hi All, I've been asked to provide a network for a complex of buildings. They like the ease of deployment and flexibility of a Trango based network. I'll lock them into a 3 year contract that will match the time frame I'll need for a bank loan for the hardware. I'll need to put in 3 ap's and 4 cpe units.  As well as battery backup units all installation work etc.  Additional cpe is possible but not guaranteed in the future. My question is, what do I charge for this?  I can handle the monthly part but I've never put a service contract on a wlan before.  Used to do it in my copier days all the time so I understand the concept.  Just need some help with the numbers. The site is 

Re: Was - [WISPA] service contract prices - What is moto doing?

2006-02-10 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181



They know cause I've told them :-).

There are issues in the 700 band too. EVERY 
filing has been against unlicensed.

laters,
Marlon(509) 
982-2181 
Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 
(Vonage) 
Consulting services42846865 
(icq) 
And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  G.Villarini 
  
  To: 'WISPA General List' 
  Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 12:24 
  PM
  Subject: RE: Was - [WISPA] service 
  contract prices - What is moto doing?
  
  
  The Cellular Sector 
  is pushing for licensing the 3.65 band… You got to understand that MOTO is 
  huge organization not like other Manufacturers. And The Cellular 
  Division is pushing for licensing the 3.65 band so they can sell more BTS to 
  the Cell operators….AFAIK, the Canopy group has nothing to do with this since 
  they are on another Division…
  
  Sometimes your right 
  hand doesn’t know what the left is doing …Not the case with smaller guys like 
  Trango, which only serve a handful of markets
  
  
  Gino A. Villarini, 
  
  Aeronet Wireless 
  Broadband Corp.
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  www.aeronetpr.com
  787.273.4143
  
  
  
  
  
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dan PetermannSent: Friday, February 10, 2006 4:16 
  PMTo: WISPA General ListSubject: Re: Was - [WISPA] service 
  contract prices - What is moto doing?
  
  What are they doing at the 
  FCC??
  
  
  
  Can you point me to a few links or otherwise enlighten 
  me?
  
  
  
  
  
  
  On Feb 10, 2006, at 1:07 PM, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 
  982-2181 wrote:
  
  
  I 
  know I work with EC. And I know people like Canopy. I know I'm only supposed 
  to say nice things.
  
  But Motorola is STILL working hard 
  at the FCC level to hamstring this industry. I'll not support them unless 
  there are no other choices. I won't even use a moto cell phone at this point, 
  I'm so discussed with what they've been doing at the 
  FCC.
  
  Marlon(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales(408) 
  907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services42846865 (icq) And I run my own 
  wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
  
  
  

- Original Message - 


From: G.Villarini 


To: 'WISPA General 
List' 

Sent: Friday, 
February 10, 2006 11:19 AM

Subject: RE: 
[WISPA] service contract prices



1 suggestion, Last 
Mile Gear Canopy Advantage Omni

Gino A. 
Villarini, 
Aeronet Wireless 
Broadband Corp.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.aeronetpr.com
787.273.4143




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer 
(509) 982-2181Sent: 
Friday, February 10, 2006 3:17 PMTo: WISPA General 
ListSubject: Re: [WISPA] service contract 
prices

Need coverage in 3 
different directions. And trango ap's only come with 60* 
sectors.

Plus, they'll likely 
put in some video surveillance and that will need lots of capacity so we're 
heading off any likely bw 
issues.

Marlon(509) 982-2181 Equipment 
sales(408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services42846865 (icq) And I 
run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



  
  - 
  Original Message - 
  
  From: G.Villarini 
  
  
  To: 'WISPA General 
  List' 
  
  Sent: 
  Friday, February 10, 2006 11:05 
  AM
  
  Subject: RE: 
  [WISPA] service contract 
  prices
  Why 3 
  APs ?
  
  Gino 
  A. Villarini, 
  Aeronet Wireless 
  Broadband Corp.
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  www.aeronetpr.com
  787.273.4143
  
  
  
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
  On Behalf Of Marlon K. 
  Schafer (509) 982-2181Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 3:03 
  PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 
  WISPA General 
  ListSubject: Re: [WISPA] service contract 
  prices
  
  Hiya 
  Johnny,
  
  This is a casino. 
  The security and reliability requirements rule out any 802.11 type 
  gear.
  
  Marlon(509) 982-2181 Equipment 
  sales(408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services42846865 (icq) And 
  I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
  
  
  

- Original Message - 


From: JohnnyO 


To: WISPA General 
List 

Sent: 
Friday, February 10, 2006 10:42 
AM

Subject: Re: 
[WISPA] service contract 
prices
I 
would strongly suggest looking at Mikrotik for the following 
reasons.#1 - 

Re: [WISPA] service contract prices

2006-02-10 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181



Sigh

Yeah, it sucked. But they've done that more 
than once. We all knew it would happen. It wasn't an if, it was a 
when.

And it's really quite different. They didn't 
do anything that hurt the overall industry. Their reputation, sure. 
No one's going to ever trust them. But that's not at all the same as 
telling the FCC that there's more than enough unlicensed spectrum out 
there

Marlon(509) 
982-2181 
Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 
(Vonage) 
Consulting services42846865 
(icq) 
And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  G.Villarini 
  
  To: 'WISPA General List' 
  Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 12:25 
  PM
  Subject: RE: [WISPA] service contract 
  prices
  
  
  Ohh and you like 
  Trango even tough they pulled the plug on Distis like EC ? 
  …..
  
  
  Gino A. Villarini, 
  
  Aeronet Wireless 
  Broadband Corp.
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  www.aeronetpr.com
  787.273.4143
  
  
  
  
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
  Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 4:08 
  PMTo: WISPA General ListSubject: Re: [WISPA] service contract 
  prices
  
  
  I know I work with EC. And I 
  know people like Canopy. I know I'm only supposed to say nice 
  things.
  
  
  
  But Motorola is STILL working hard 
  at the FCC level to hamstring this industry. I'll not support them 
  unless there are no other choices. I won't even use a moto cell phone at 
  this point, I'm so discussed with what they've been doing at the 
  FCC.
  
  
  
  Marlon(509) 
  982-2181 
  Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 
  (Vonage) 
  Consulting services42846865 
  (icq) 
  And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
  
  
  
  
  

- Original Message - 


From: G.Villarini 


To: 'WISPA General 
List' 

Sent: Friday, 
February 10, 2006 11:19 AM

Subject: RE: 
[WISPA] service contract prices


1 suggestion, Last 
Mile Gear Canopy Advantage Omni


Gino A. Villarini, 

Aeronet Wireless 
Broadband Corp.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.aeronetpr.com
787.273.4143





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 3:17 
PMTo: WISPA General ListSubject: Re: [WISPA] service contract 
prices


Need coverage in 3 different 
directions. And trango ap's only come with 60* 
sectors.



Plus, they'll likely put in some 
video surveillance and that will need lots of capacity so we're heading off 
any likely bw issues.



Marlon(509) 
982-2181 
Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 
(Vonage) 
Consulting services42846865 
(icq) 
And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam





  
  - Original Message - 
  
  
  From: G.Villarini 
  
  
  To: 'WISPA General 
  List' 
  
  Sent: 
  Friday, February 10, 2006 11:05 AM
  
  Subject: RE: 
  [WISPA] service contract prices
  
  
  Why 3 APs 
  ?
  
  
  Gino A. 
  Villarini, 
  Aeronet Wireless 
  Broadband Corp.
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  www.aeronetpr.com
  787.273.4143
  
  
  
  
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
  Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 3:03 
  PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 
  WISPA General ListSubject: Re: [WISPA] service contract 
  prices
  
  
  Hiya 
  Johnny,
  
  
  
  This is a casino. The 
  security and reliability requirements rule out any 802.11 type 
  gear.
  
  
  
  Marlon(509) 
  982-2181 
  Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 
  (Vonage) 
  Consulting services42846865 
  (icq) 
  And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
  
  
  
  
  

- Original Message - 


From: JohnnyO 


To: WISPA General 
List 

Sent: 
Friday, February 10, 2006 10:42 AM

Subject: Re: 
[WISPA] service contract prices


I would strongly suggest looking at Mikrotik for 
the following reasons.#1 - Pricing - very inexpensive to 
maintain and swap out equipment in the event of a failure#2 - You 
can provide them up to 36meg connectivity for the same pricing anyone 
can offer then 10megs#3 - Ease of replacementsYou can also 
  

Re: [WISPA] service contract prices

2006-02-10 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181

Grin

No thanks!  I like my warranties!

And part of the reason for so many ap's is to keep the capacity up when they 
start doing video across the network.


Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: Mac Dearman [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 12:31 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] service contract prices



Marlon,

 You can open up the Trango 5830AP case and there are already connectors 
in there. Just unplug the ones to the internal antenna and plug in the new 
MMCX to NFemale adapter, drill out the hole for the NFemale(or your 
choice) either in the side or through the plastic front. Its easy and very 
cost effective :-)  - - - just don't over tighten the housing screws as 
they are self tapping and will pull all your threads out.

  Good Luck on your Casino deal!!

Mac




Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:

I know I work with EC.  And I know people like Canopy.  I know I'm only 
supposed to say nice things.
 But Motorola is STILL working hard at the FCC level to hamstring this 
industry.  I'll not support them unless there are no other choices.  I 
won't even use a moto cell phone at this point, I'm so discussed with 
what they've been doing at the FCC.

 Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless http://www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam http://www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam


- Original Message -
*From:* G.Villarini mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*To:* 'WISPA General List' mailto:wireless@wispa.org
*Sent:* Friday, February 10, 2006 11:19 AM
*Subject:* RE: [WISPA] service contract prices

1 suggestion, Last Mile Gear Canopy Advantage Omni


Gino A. Villarini,

Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

www.aeronetpr.com http://www.aeronetpr.com

787.273.4143




*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Marlon K.
Schafer (509) 982-2181
*Sent:* Friday, February 10, 2006 3:17 PM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] service contract prices


Need coverage in 3 different directions.  And trango ap's only
come with 60* sectors.


Plus, they'll likely put in some video surveillance and that will
need lots of capacity so we're heading off any likely bw issues.


Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own
wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless http://www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
http://www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam




- Original Message -

*From:* G.Villarini mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

*To:* 'WISPA General List' mailto:wireless@wispa.org

*Sent:* Friday, February 10, 2006 11:05 AM

*Subject:* RE: [WISPA] service contract prices


Why 3 APs ?


Gino A. Villarini,

Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

www.aeronetpr.com http://www.aeronetpr.com

787.273.4143




*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Marlon K.
Schafer (509) 982-2181
*Sent:* Friday, February 10, 2006 3:03 PM
*To:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] service contract prices


Hiya Johnny,


This is a casino.  The security and reliability requirements
rule out any 802.11 type gear.


Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my
own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
http://www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
http://www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam




- Original Message -

*From:* JohnnyO mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

*To:* 

RE: Was - [WISPA] service contract prices - What is moto doing?

2006-02-10 Thread G.Villarini








Surely they know, but there isnt much
they can do when the Cell div. pulls x100 more $ than the Canopy Div.





Gino A. Villarini, 

Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

www.aeronetpr.com

787.273.4143













From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509)
982-2181
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006
5:13 PM
To: WISPA
 General List
Subject: Re: Was - [WISPA] service
contract prices - What is moto doing?







They know cause I've told them :-).











There are issues in the 700 band too. EVERY filing has
been against unlicensed.











laters,





Marlon
(509)
982-2181
Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910
(Vonage)
Consulting services
42846865
(icq)
And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam




















- Original Message - 





From: G.Villarini 





To: 'WISPA General
List' 





Sent: Friday, February
10, 2006 12:24 PM





Subject: RE: Was - [WISPA]
service contract prices - What is moto doing?









The Cellular Sector is pushing for
licensing the 3.65 band You got to understand that MOTO is huge
organization not like other Manufacturers. And The Cellular Division is
pushing for licensing the 3.65 band so they can sell more BTS to the Cell
operators.AFAIK, the Canopy group has nothing to do with this since they
are on another Division



Sometimes your right hand doesnt
know what the left is doing Not the case with smaller guys like Trango,
which only serve a handful of markets





Gino A. Villarini, 

Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

www.aeronetpr.com

787.273.4143













From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dan Petermann
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006
4:16 PM
To: WISPA
 General List
Subject: Re: Was - [WISPA] service
contract prices - What is moto doing?





What are they doing at the FCC??









Can you point me to a few links or otherwise enlighten me?

















On Feb 10, 2006, at 1:07 PM, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:







I
know I work with EC. And I know people like Canopy. I know I'm only supposed to
say nice things.





But Motorola is STILL working hard at the FCC level to
hamstring this industry. I'll not support them unless there are no other
choices. I won't even use a moto cell phone at this point, I'm so discussed
with what they've been doing at the FCC.





Marlon
(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services
42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam













- Original Message - 





From: G.Villarini 





To: 'WISPA General
List' 





Sent: Friday, February
10, 2006 11:19 AM





Subject: RE: [WISPA]
service contract prices











1 suggestion, Last Mile Gear Canopy Advantage Omni



Gino A. Villarini, 



Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.



[EMAIL PROTECTED]



www.aeronetpr.com



787.273.4143













From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
(509) 982-2181
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006
3:17 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] service
contract prices





Need
coverage in 3 different directions. And trango ap's only come with 60* sectors.





Plus,
they'll likely put in some video surveillance and that will need lots of
capacity so we're heading off any likely bw issues.





Marlon
(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services
42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam















-
Original Message - 





From: G.Villarini 





To: 'WISPA General List' 





Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 11:05 AM





Subject: RE: [WISPA] service contract prices



Why 3 APs ?



Gino A. Villarini, 



Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.



[EMAIL PROTECTED]



www.aeronetpr.com



787.273.4143













From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
(509) 982-2181
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006
3:03 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] service
contract prices





Hiya Johnny,





This is a
casino. The security and reliability requirements rule out any 802.11 type
gear.





Marlon
(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services
42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam















-
Original Message - 





From: JohnnyO






To: WISPA General List 





Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 10:42 AM





Subject: Re: [WISPA] service contract prices



I would strongly
suggest looking at Mikrotik for the following reasons.

#1 - Pricing - very inexpensive to maintain and swap out equipment in the event
of a failure
#2 - You can provide them up to 36meg 

Re: [WISPA] My Towers Need More CPU - suggestions?

2006-02-10 Thread Dylan Oliver
Which fancy enclosure with a heater and external fan did you choose? How much was it? Are you happy with it?Thanks,-- Dylan OliverPrimaverity, LLC
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Re: [WISPA] My Towers Need More CPU - suggestions?

2006-02-10 Thread Blair Davis
I'd like to see the NEMA boxes you are using.  I have thought of putting 
an atx board on top of a grain leg but have not yet found a cost 
effective way to do it.


Power supply is the main issue.  running 100W of power up there is 
not easy or cheap  48V @ 2.1A or 12V @ 8.2A.


At 48V, not too bad, but at 12V that would be a big cable to run

Dylan Oliver wrote:

Which fancy enclosure with a heater and external fan did you choose? 
How much was it? Are you happy with it?


Thanks,
--
Dylan Oliver
Primaverity, LLC 


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Re: [WISPA] BPSK QAM16 DSSS interference

2006-02-10 Thread Tom DeReggi

Dustin,


While I haven't done any current work with the 2 foot Gabriel professional
series I've been hearing enough good stuff about it that I ordered one to
play with and see if it worth deploying.


So far I like the Gabriel antennas. However, I am starting to see a pattern 
where the various radios perform better on 5.3Ghz than on 5.8Ghz when using 
the Gabriel Dual Freq (5.3-5.8) antenna. (from a packet loss perspective not 
a RSSI perspective). I believe that this is totally coincidental, and a 
result that the 5.3G spectrum is VERY clean, and the 5.8Ghz spectrum is VERY 
noisy. However, how do I know that for sure? I can't just assume, that its 
the radios' fault or the noise floor. I have two sites using the Gabriels, 
both tested with Trango and Mikrotik. Next week, I am going to swap the 
antenna, with a PacWireless (5.8G only) 2 footer, just to confirm for sure, 
that the Gabriel (Dual Freq model) performs equivellently. It is a 
possibilty that the antenna feed is optimized for 5.3 and causing some 
issues at 5.8G.  With Pack wireless they make seperate antennas for 5.8G and 
5.3G, and if you mismatch them with the other Freq, you get a few percent 
packet loss, that can't be gotten rid of.


I have no evidense, that the Gabriel is working anything but perfectly. But 
its worth proving since its a new product for me that I plan to use a lot 
more of. I'd be interested in what you find, and whether you find that it 
works optimally for 5.8Ghz.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc 


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Re: [WISPA] BPSK QAM16 DSSS interference

2006-02-10 Thread Travis Johnson

Tom,

I currently have several Pac Wireless 5.8ghz 2ft dishes running at 
5.3ghz with no packet loss. Granted, the RSSI is 1-2db higher than it 
should be, but they do work.


Travis
Microserv


Tom DeReggi wrote:


Dustin,

While I haven't done any current work with the 2 foot Gabriel 
professional
series I've been hearing enough good stuff about it that I ordered 
one to

play with and see if it worth deploying.



So far I like the Gabriel antennas. However, I am starting to see a 
pattern where the various radios perform better on 5.3Ghz than on 
5.8Ghz when using the Gabriel Dual Freq (5.3-5.8) antenna. (from a 
packet loss perspective not a RSSI perspective). I believe that this 
is totally coincidental, and a result that the 5.3G spectrum is VERY 
clean, and the 5.8Ghz spectrum is VERY noisy. However, how do I know 
that for sure? I can't just assume, that its the radios' fault or the 
noise floor. I have two sites using the Gabriels, both tested with 
Trango and Mikrotik. Next week, I am going to swap the antenna, with a 
PacWireless (5.8G only) 2 footer, just to confirm for sure, that the 
Gabriel (Dual Freq model) performs equivellently. It is a possibilty 
that the antenna feed is optimized for 5.3 and causing some issues at 
5.8G.  With Pack wireless they make seperate antennas for 5.8G and 
5.3G, and if you mismatch them with the other Freq, you get a few 
percent packet loss, that can't be gotten rid of.


I have no evidense, that the Gabriel is working anything but 
perfectly. But its worth proving since its a new product for me that I 
plan to use a lot more of. I'd be interested in what you find, and 
whether you find that it works optimally for 5.8Ghz.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc



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Re: [WISPA] MikroTik 5.8GHz Radio cards and settings.

2006-02-10 Thread Tom DeReggi



OOPs, I'm writing quicker than I'm thinking, and 
getting myself confused. I'm not using the Amp with the Range 2.

The subscriber side had a Range2 (400watt). The AP 
side had a CM9 with Rflinx 250WAmp (802.11G model).

Some weird things had happened, like I had an 
antenna and amp plugged on one of the ports, and not the other, and when I 
changed antennas inStar OS, I only got a db or two difference in signal 
strength. Swapped all the gear and caleshad same results. Changed 
channels, and problems went a way. It was one of those days that broke all laws 
of science and just didn't add up.We also tried changing ports on SU 
sideat stages during the tests, which is why I asked the question 
regarding the Range2s. Its was a site from hell. I started the job out 
with 13db radios, as itappeared to be a LOS installation, with some 
possible Freznel zone blockage. But unfortuneately they were pine trees. 
We got them working, but lots of reliabilty issues. We are actually converting 
some of it to 900Mhz next week, and swapping to a 180 deg Sector antenna at AP 
instead of the Omni. Its a farm with no one else around for 5-10 square miles. 
But therewas more noise than expected. The High power was needed to get 
past all the Almost-LOS issues with Trees.When we go back, we are swapping 
all the pigtails with another brand just for confirmation. Its just helpful to 
go back with known facts regarding what to expect from the Range cards, and make 
sure we use the optimal port.

Tom DeReggiRapidDSL  Wireless, IncIntAirNet- Fixed Wireless 
Broadband



  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Blair Davis 

  To: WISPA General List 
  Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 9:49 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] MikroTik 5.8GHz 
  Radio cards and settings.
  Tom,The first batch of SR5 cards had a problem with 
  their mmxc port. Low or no output when selected. The u.fl port was 
  said to be ok.If you don't mind, why would you use amps with a 400mW 
  radio card? I'd expect you to be overloading the input on the amps and 
  making all kinds of noiseTom DeReggi wrote: 
  



What exactly is the old mmcx problem? I had 
some original batch Range2's (or is that range 3s, the 2,4Ghz G 
ones)that were giving me sparatic performance at a site, used with 
RfLink Amps, and the mmcx port.

Tom DeReggiRapidDSL  Wireless, IncIntAirNet- Fixed 
Wireless Broadband



  - 
  Original Message - 
  From: 
  Blair Davis 
  
  To: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Cc: 
  'WISPA 
  General List' 
  Sent: 
  Thursday, February 09, 2006 3:04 PM
  Subject: 
  Re: [WISPA] MikroTik 5.8GHz Radio cards and settings.
  I was/am aware of the mmcx issue and all tests were done 
  with the same u.fl pigtails on each end. When the radio cards were 
  changed, the same u.fl pigtails were used. Only the radio cards were 
  changed.They were the older SR5 cards with the mmcx problem. 
  (proven by testing!!) The mmcx port was down 6db from the u.fl 
  port.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  What pigtails and connectors? Mmcx on the SR5 or u.fl? are these new SR5's or
older sr'5s?

  
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf
Of Blair Davis
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 2:08 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] MikroTik 5.8GHz Radio cards and settings.

Hey all:

I'm getting some odd results here with a PtP 5.8GHz link using MikroTik
that I setup to test with.  Let me describe the setup...

The link is 7.9 miles with clear LoS and clear Frenel zone.  Each end
has a 27db grid with a 3ft LMR-400 jumper to the MikroTik radio.

Using the link calculator at
http://www.zytrax.com/tech/wireless/calc.htm I get a predicted rx of
-60.8db at each end with CM9 radio cards (17db output).  Using the SR5
cards, (400mW), I get a predicted rx of -51.8

On to the real world results  (all reading taken from the MikroTik's
winbox.  I am using version 2.9.11 on RouterBoard 230's)

With the CM9 cards, I get a measured rx of -62db, well within the margin
of error.  An interesting note here is that I must set the CM9's output
power in the MikroTik at 30db to get these results..  I know that the
MikroTik must be doing something odd with this setting, as the CM9 can
not put out 30db.  Reducing the setting drops the rx strenth by a like
amount.  This link is stable and will pass 30Mb/sec in UDP and 22Mb/sec
in TCP mode

With the SR5 cards, I get a measured rx of -66db, well outside the
margin of error and 15db below the expected rx strength!  An interesting
note here is that I must set the SR5's output power in the MikroTik at
30db to get these results.  I know that the MikroTik must be doing
something odd with this setting, as the SR5 should not put out 30db.
Reducing the setting drops the rx strength by a like amount.  This link
is stable and will pass 24Mb/sec in UDP and 16Mb/sec in TCP 

Re: [WISPA] Flawed Spectrum Analysis (I think!)

2006-02-10 Thread Tom DeReggi



I agree with your concern. Most likely the person 
doing the testing is the person doing the sale of the Redline?


Tom DeReggiRapidDSL  Wireless, IncIntAirNet- Fixed Wireless 
Broadband



  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  JohnnyO 
  To: WISPA General List 
  Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 8:44 
  AM
  Subject: RE: [WISPA] Flawed Spectrum 
  Analysis (I think!)
  I think what you thought was RG6 was actually RG59 - Redline is 
  a pretty clean platform so I don't think too many issues will arise from the 
  deployment of that platform in your area.JohnnyOOn Fri, 
  2006-02-10 at 07:31 -0600, Cliff Leboeuf wrote: 
  
Thanks for all of the 
  feedback.For clarification, the LMR400 cable was 140 feet and was the 
  only cable that connected the analyzer to the 
  antenna.I am familiar with the IDU and ODU configuration of the 
  Redline equipment.This test was to see what 5.8 RF was present. The customer 
  plans to deploy a series of P2P and P2Mp radios in the same coverage area 
  as two other towers that have 5.8 deployed.My climber was familiar with the other tower 
  locations, and wanted to ‘prove’ other RF was in the same area, and that 
  the Redline P2Mp has the potential to affect these other towers 
  adversely.
Though I have not seen their conclusion, I am 
  not confident in their methods; and the fact that I believe they just want 
  to install. Once they are functional, they are ‘outta here.’ Then, the 
  customer will be left to mitigate any issues that could easily be avoided, 
  or minimized, by using other frequencies. This is a public safety entity 
  and should be using the 4.9Ghz frequency, but I think Redline has this 
  project wrapped up and since they don’t make 4.9Ghz equipment, they are 
  ‘forcing’ the 5.8Ghz and are resisting my ideas tooth and 
  nail.Why create a potential for problems when you know it can be 
  avoided…That the government though! J- Cliff
  
  

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Re: [WISPA] service contract prices

2006-02-10 Thread JohnnyO




Mac - got a How To for this ?

JohnnyO

On Fri, 2006-02-10 at 14:31 -0600, Mac Dearman wrote:


Marlon,

  You can open up the Trango 5830AP case and there are already 
connectors in there. Just unplug the ones to the internal antenna and 
plug in the new MMCX to NFemale adapter, drill out the hole for the 
NFemale(or your choice) either in the side or through the plastic front. 
Its easy and very cost effective :-)  - - - just don't over tighten the 
housing screws as they are self tapping and will pull all your threads out.
   
Good Luck on your Casino deal!!

Mac




Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:

 I know I work with EC.  And I know people like Canopy.  I know I'm 
 only supposed to say nice things.
  
 But Motorola is STILL working hard at the FCC level to hamstring this 
 industry.  I'll not support them unless there are no other choices.  I 
 won't even use a moto cell phone at this point, I'm so discussed with 
 what they've been doing at the FCC.
  
 Marlon
 (509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
 (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
 64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
 www.odessaoffice.com/wireless http://www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
 www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam http://www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
  

  

 - Original Message -
 *From:* G.Villarini mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 *To:* 'WISPA General List' mailto:wireless@wispa.org
 *Sent:* Friday, February 10, 2006 11:19 AM
 *Subject:* RE: [WISPA] service contract prices

 1 suggestion, Last Mile Gear Canopy Advantage Omni

  

 Gino A. Villarini,

 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.

 [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 www.aeronetpr.com http://www.aeronetpr.com

 787.273.4143

  

 

 *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] *On Behalf Of *Marlon K.
 Schafer (509) 982-2181
 *Sent:* Friday, February 10, 2006 3:17 PM
 *To:* WISPA General List
 *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] service contract prices

  

 Need coverage in 3 different directions.  And trango ap's only
 come with 60* sectors.

  

 Plus, they'll likely put in some video surveillance and that will
 need lots of capacity so we're heading off any likely bw issues.

  

 Marlon
 (509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
 (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
 42846865 (icq)And I run my own
 wisp!
 64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
 www.odessaoffice.com/wireless http://www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
 www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
 http://www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam

  


  

 - Original Message -

 *From:* G.Villarini mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 *To:* 'WISPA General List' mailto:wireless@wispa.org

 *Sent:* Friday, February 10, 2006 11:05 AM

 *Subject:* RE: [WISPA] service contract prices

  

 Why 3 APs ?

  

 Gino A. Villarini,

 Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.

 [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 www.aeronetpr.com http://www.aeronetpr.com

 787.273.4143

  

 

 *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] *On Behalf Of *Marlon K.
 Schafer (509) 982-2181
 *Sent:* Friday, February 10, 2006 3:03 PM
 *To:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List
 *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] service contract prices

  

 Hiya Johnny,

  

 This is a casino.  The security and reliability requirements
 rule out any 802.11 type gear.

  

 Marlon
 (509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
 (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
 42846865 (icq)And I run my
 own wisp!
 64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
 www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
 http://www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
 www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
 http://www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam

  


  

 - Original Message -

 *From:* JohnnyO mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 *To:* WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org

 *Sent:* Friday, February 10, 2006 10:42 AM

 *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] service contract prices

  

 I would strongly suggest looking at Mikrotik for the
 following reasons.

 #1 - Pricing - very inexpensive to