RE: [WISPA] Flawed Spectrum Analysis (I think!)
Thanks for all of the feedback. For clarification, the LMR400 cable was 140 feet and was the only cable that connected the analyzer to the antenna. I am familiar with the IDU and ODU configuration of the Redline equipment. This test was to see what 5.8 RF was present. The customer plans to deploy a series of P2P and P2Mp radios in the same coverage area as two other towers that have 5.8 deployed. My climber was familiar with the other tower locations, and wanted to prove other RF was in the same area, and that the Redline P2Mp has the potential to affect these other towers adversely. Though I have not seen their conclusion, I am not confident in their methods; and the fact that I believe they just want to install. Once they are functional, they are outta here. Then, the customer will be left to mitigate any issues that could easily be avoided, or minimized, by using other frequencies. This is a public safety entity and should be using the 4.9Ghz frequency, but I think Redline has this project wrapped up and since they dont make 4.9Ghz equipment, they are forcing the 5.8Ghz and are resisting my ideas tooth and nail. Why create a potential for problems when you know it can be avoidedThat the government though! J - Cliff -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Flawed Spectrum Analysis (I think!)
I think what you thought was RG6 was actually RG59 - Redline is a pretty clean platform so I don't think too many issues will arise from the deployment of that platform in your area. JohnnyO On Fri, 2006-02-10 at 07:31 -0600, Cliff Leboeuf wrote: Thanks for all of the feedback. For clarification, the LMR400 cable was 140 feet and was the only cable that connected the analyzer to the antenna. I am familiar with the IDU and ODU configuration of the Redline equipment. This test was to see what 5.8 RF was present. The customer plans to deploy a series of P2P and P2Mp radios in the same coverage area as two other towers that have 5.8 deployed. My climber was familiar with the other tower locations, and wanted to prove other RF was in the same area, and that the Redline P2Mp has the potential to affect these other towers adversely. Though I have not seen their conclusion, I am not confident in their methods; and the fact that I believe they just want to install. Once they are functional, they are outta here. Then, the customer will be left to mitigate any issues that could easily be avoided, or minimized, by using other frequencies. This is a public safety entity and should be using the 4.9Ghz frequency, but I think Redline has this project wrapped up and since they dont make 4.9Ghz equipment, they are forcing the 5.8Ghz and are resisting my ideas tooth and nail. Why create a potential for problems when you know it can be avoidedThat the government though! J - Cliff -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Flawed Spectrum Analysis (I think!)
AUGH! This whole thread.. Some have touched on pieces of it but how about this summary.. The Redline is a two piece radio. It does not send 5 Ghz up the cable. It sends an IF frequency which is lower and more forgiving as well as power to operate the outdoor unit. The Redline as pointed out does not have a spectrum analyzer (in the versions I have worked with). As such they probably just checked for RSL on any or all channels. This is not a spectrum analysis by any means. The Redline equipment is great equipment but it is not a spectrum analyzer. A spectrum analysis is flawed in almost any case really because it is only good at the time of the testing and along the path of the test. You really will only see stronger signals with an omni. But you can still have your signal killed if someone is using directional antennas and looking down your path. There is a big difference from 8 dB to 29 dB. The other case is a 5 Ghz. system in place that only is used at the end of the day or does dumps' at certain times. Unlike a full duplex radio like a Proxim Tsunami that is talking all the time regardless of the received signal, you may only see a signal when the associated equipment is passing data. In my book you can't do reliable spectrum analysis with any radio or assocaited radio card. Yes, there are systems out there that work really well but I would not be willing to bet my reputation on most. Will they get you by in most cases??? Sure. But... To answer your question..Yes, the spectrum analysis was flawed. Personally...we never do spectrum analysis. It causes more headaches than what it is worth IMHO. Is it great for finding interference?? Sure. I have installed links in lower Manhattan (nearly 70 to date on unlicensed 5 Ghz), Washington DC and Boston without ever needing a spectrum analysis. All these locations are RF hotbeds. A few things to consider. Use a radio with a very good C/I value. Use 2' or larger antennas to keep the beamwidth tight. Use radios that are capable of 5 or 10 Mhz. channels. Use radios with high RF power output. If you need to run transmission line to the radio, use the right stuff for the job. LMR400 and 5 Ghz. are not my considered options unless the cable length is less than 24. We use LMR600 up to 100' and 5/8 heliax after that. make sure the radio has a good receiver threshold. Wherever possible we use 5.3 Ghz. Last and not least consider your neighbors. If there is only one tall building in town and everyone is on it use 5 Ghz. you are probably in for some challenges. But if you do a spectrum analysis, find a clear channel, build on it and then smile and walk away only to have one of the existing operators change channels and rain on your parade. Its a game of chance but with the proper engineering you can move the odds more in your favor. Good Luck! -B- -- Bob Moldashel Lakeland Communications, Inc. Broadband Deployment Group 1350 Lincoln Avenue Holbrook, New York 11741 USA 800-479-9195 Toll Free US Canada 631-585-5558 Fax 516-551-1131 Cell -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] BPSK QAM16 DSSS interference
Tom, There are always several ways to skin that cat! Well the larger antenna would certainly allow you to decrease your back lobe and increase power and the size of your ear. If the problem is interference at your site, a lot of this is going to depend on how your site is built, length of the face of the tower, and direction of all of your equipment. While I haven't done any current work with the 2 foot Gabriel professional series I've been hearing enough good stuff about it that I ordered one to play with and see if it worth deploying. What I like to do in situations like this is break out the Anritsu spectrum analyzer and spend some time documenting the site. Knowing the ambient noise floor at the site is important before putting any additional equipment up as it's likely to interfere with other equipment. Dustin Jurman -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 9:24 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] BPSK QAM16 DSSS interference Thanks, Charles and Dustin, The challenge I'm working on is to determine if the degregation of my test link, is caused by A) Distortion on the transmitter, at full power? or B) Overload or lack of acuracy of the receiver. or C) Or Just plain interference creeping in. (tested at about -80db) note: multipath unlikely, as LOS link, 10 miles, parabolic antenna, o wall behind antennas, 100ft above other buildings. In my Trango test case, w/ 2ft antennas, QAM16, at -55 db I got worse signal Quality quality (packet loss) than at -65db. To me that would infer case A or B was happening. What was interesting, is my Mikrotik test link w/ range5s, actually got peak rssi (full power) of -47db apposed to Altas's peak signal of -55. (note: path analisys calculated -55 db appropriate, so not a negative for the Trango, but a Plus for the Range 5, exceeding expectations). With the Mikrotik, the higher the rssi radio power, the better the speed results, and lower the packet loss. So Mikrotik did not seem to be plagued with the same delimna. However, at a surprise, the Mikrotik performed at a slower speed, and had more packet loss, in its best link configuration, than Trango had. So the Trango at -65db QAM16, outperformed the Mikrotik at -47db. I attribute those results partially, to how the radios deal with interference. One side of the link (AP/MU) had significant noise, causing the Mikrotik to lower modulation more frequently. I proved this, by repeating speed tests with Trango using 5.3Ghz, which performed perfect links (no loss). However, the 10-11 miles was pushing the maxrange of 5.3, and I felt 5.3 was to risky, based on that. I actually had to turnup the Power a little over the legal limit to get the perfect link, but still lower rssi than the 5.8G link. But my point was, when noise wasn't there, the links worked much better. So the decission I am trying to decide on is, a) increase the gain (dbi) of the antennas and lower the gain (dbm) of the radio, to improve the link. For example, upgrade from 2 ft dished to 3 or 4 ft dished. or b) get a better 2 ft antenna with more isolation. For example, upgrade Gabriel cheap 2 ft para to the high performance 2 ft Gabriel Drum style antennas? Either one could have a possitive effect. Its likely that my noise is comming from my colocated antennas at the same site. The Drum style antenna will likely have much better isolation comming from the sides. Better F/B ratio is not jsut about an antenna behind me, but also beside me, and interference is not always cured by lowering the beamwidth, if the interference is comming from the side. So better isolation antenna could be the choice. However, if the packet loss was from self generated noise, larger antenna would keep my gain up, even after lowering power. However, I actually would still have a gain improvement, because the antenna increases gain in both directions, where as lowering he TX power only does it in one direction. Because most of my interference is at the AP/MU side my paln was possibly to Increase the antenna at the RU/Client, to a 3-4 ft dish. If packet loss at -55db was due to transmitting to high power, and loss was at MU/AP then it would be most importantto lower transmit power at the RU/Client side. Increasing dish size at RU would help this. Then on the MU/AP side, I would add the high performance 2ft antenna, with better isolation, taking that most of teh interference may be colocation interference. Increasing the antenna size may not block interference comming from the side. But then again, if interference comming from the front (I have another site 20 deg off to the left), its possible the larger dish and narrower beam may in fact also help isolate interference. Now to make it complicated, what if the cause is not interference at the radio receivers? But instead its all the RF in between and
RE: [WISPA] Flawed Spectrum Analysis (I think!)
If the spectrum analyzer is left in place for a period of time and setup with peak hold you will quickly find that radio that is used at the end of the day. It still speaks, handshakes and more. Just setting up big shots and blowing people out is bad business for everyone. If the customer wants a quality shot then there should be no problem doing a spectrum analysis, freq decision and installation shortly after. I agree it's only good for a certain amount of time, but if the customer wants a reliable shot then due diligence is better than chance luck. Dustin -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bob Moldashel Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 9:49 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Flawed Spectrum Analysis (I think!) AUGH! This whole thread.. Some have touched on pieces of it but how about this summary.. The Redline is a two piece radio. It does not send 5 Ghz up the cable. It sends an IF frequency which is lower and more forgiving as well as power to operate the outdoor unit. The Redline as pointed out does not have a spectrum analyzer (in the versions I have worked with). As such they probably just checked for RSL on any or all channels. This is not a spectrum analysis by any means. The Redline equipment is great equipment but it is not a spectrum analyzer. A spectrum analysis is flawed in almost any case really because it is only good at the time of the testing and along the path of the test. You really will only see stronger signals with an omni. But you can still have your signal killed if someone is using directional antennas and looking down your path. There is a big difference from 8 dB to 29 dB. The other case is a 5 Ghz. system in place that only is used at the end of the day or does dumps' at certain times. Unlike a full duplex radio like a Proxim Tsunami that is talking all the time regardless of the received signal, you may only see a signal when the associated equipment is passing data. In my book you can't do reliable spectrum analysis with any radio or assocaited radio card. Yes, there are systems out there that work really well but I would not be willing to bet my reputation on most. Will they get you by in most cases??? Sure. But... To answer your question..Yes, the spectrum analysis was flawed. Personally...we never do spectrum analysis. It causes more headaches than what it is worth IMHO. Is it great for finding interference?? Sure. I have installed links in lower Manhattan (nearly 70 to date on unlicensed 5 Ghz), Washington DC and Boston without ever needing a spectrum analysis. All these locations are RF hotbeds. A few things to consider. Use a radio with a very good C/I value. Use 2' or larger antennas to keep the beamwidth tight. Use radios that are capable of 5 or 10 Mhz. channels. Use radios with high RF power output. If you need to run transmission line to the radio, use the right stuff for the job. LMR400 and 5 Ghz. are not my considered options unless the cable length is less than 24. We use LMR600 up to 100' and 5/8 heliax after that. make sure the radio has a good receiver threshold. Wherever possible we use 5.3 Ghz. Last and not least consider your neighbors. If there is only one tall building in town and everyone is on it use 5 Ghz. you are probably in for some challenges. But if you do a spectrum analysis, find a clear channel, build on it and then smile and walk away only to have one of the existing operators change channels and rain on your parade. Its a game of chance but with the proper engineering you can move the odds more in your favor. Good Luck! -B- -- Bob Moldashel Lakeland Communications, Inc. Broadband Deployment Group 1350 Lincoln Avenue Holbrook, New York 11741 USA 800-479-9195 Toll Free US Canada 631-585-5558 Fax 516-551-1131 Cell -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Flawed Spectrum Analysis (I think!)
Dustin Jurman wrote: If the spectrum analyzer is left in place for a period of time and setup with peak hold you will quickly find that radio that is used at the end of the day. It still speaks, handshakes and more. I don't know about you but I'm not about to leave a spectrum analyzer 180' up a tower for any period of time. Just setting up big shots and blowing people out is bad business for everyone. I am not saying to blow people out of the water with power. I am saying to make sure you have ample power and gain to supply a solid signal. Running at -78 on a link is not a solid signal in my mind. We only use equipment where we can control the power. We don't run full bore unlike alot of WISP operators. We don't plug radios like Motorola Canopy units into omni's. And my opinion is if I blow that guy off the air, so be it. It was not properly engineered to begin with. It was finacially engineered to get by cheap. If the customer wants a quality shot then there should be no problem doing a spectrum analysis, freq decision and installation shortly after. But the point is moot if Johnny O comes along on your channel tomorrow and blows you off the air (I am only using him as an example). Then the customer is all pissy because he spent money for spectrum analysis that was totally moot. I agree it's only good for a certain amount of time, but if the customer wants a reliable shot then due diligence is better than chance luck. I don't think a properly engineered link is chance luck. We don't just pick a channel out of thin air and go with it. Alot of engineering goes into it. Spectrum analysis is just not a factor 99.999 percent of the time. -B- Dustin -- Bob Moldashel Lakeland Communications, Inc. Broadband Deployment Group 1350 Lincoln Avenue Holbrook, New York 11741 USA 800-479-9195 Toll Free US Canada 631-585-5558 Fax 516-551-1131 Cell -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Flawed Spectrum Analysis (I think!)
I think you hit the nail on the headBob Moldashel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: AUGH!This whole thread..Some have touched on pieces of it but how about this summary..The Redline is a two piece radio. It does not send 5 Ghz up the cable. It sends an IF frequency which is lower and more forgiving as well as power to operate the outdoor unit. The Redline as pointed out does not have a spectrum analyzer (in the versions I have worked with). As such they probably just checked for RSL on any or all channels. This is not a spectrum analysis by any means. The Redline equipment is great equipment but it is not a spectrum analyzer.A spectrum analysis is flawed in almost any case really because it is only good at the time of the testing and along the path of the test. You rea lly will only see stronger signals with an omni. But you can still have your signal killed if someone is using directional antennas and looking down your path. There is a big difference from 8 dB to 29 dB.The other case is a 5 Ghz. system in place that only is used at the end of the day or does "dumps' at certain times. Unlike a full duplex radio like a Proxim Tsunami that is talking all the time regardless of the received signal, you may only see a signal when the associated equipment is passing data. In my book you can't do "reliable spectrum analysis" with any radio or assocaited radio card. Yes, there are systems out there that work really well but I would not be willing to bet my reputation on most. Will they get you by in most cases??? Sure. But...To answer your question..Yes, the spectrum analysis was flawed.Personally...we never do spectrum analysis. It causes more headaches than what it is worth IMHO. Is it great for finding interference?? Sure.I have installed links in lower Manhattan (nearly 70 to date on unlicensed 5 Ghz), Washington DC and Boston without ever needing a spectrum analysis. All these locations are RF hotbeds.A few things to consider. Use a radio with a very good C/I value. Use 2' or larger antennas to keep the beamwidth tight. Use radios that are capable of 5 or 10 Mhz. channels. Use radios with high RF power output. If you need to run transmission line to the radio, use the right stuff for the job. LMR400 and 5 Ghz. are not my considered options unless the cable length is less than 24". We use LMR600 up to 100' and 5/8" heliax after that. make sure the radio has a good receiver threshold. Wherever possible we use 5.3 Ghz.Last and not least consider your neighbors. If there is only one tall building in town and everyone is on it use 5 Ghz . you are probably in for some challenges. But if you do a spectrum analysis, find a clear channel, build on it and then smile and walk away only to have one of the existing operators change channels and rain on your parade.Its a game of chance but with the proper engineering you can move the odds more in your favor.Good Luck!-B--- Bob MoldashelLakeland Communications, Inc.Broadband Deployment Group1350 Lincoln AvenueHolbrook, New York 11741 USA800-479-9195 Toll Free US Canada631-585-5558 Fax516-551-1131 Cell-- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.orgSubscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wirelessArchives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Yahoo! Mail Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.-- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Flawed Spectrum Analysis (I think!)
Takes no more than a few minutes to perform a peak hold Bob, maybe you should get one and play with it a bit. It's a very powerful tool and I think your opinion will change. I agree that we have two different schools of thought. 1. Plan the play, play the plan. 2. Show up for the game. Cliff was doing the right thing by doing a spectrum analysis, esp knowing that he was going to go trough some existing equipment. Anything short of that would be irresponsible. I would say to Cliff that if they cannot produce results from the analyzer, graphs and charts than it's worthless and done improperly, just because you have an analyzer doesn't mean you know how to use it. If it's helpful I will post some shots to a website if Cliff thinks that it is helpful. Dustin Jurman Rapid Systems Corporation 1211 North Westshore Blvd Tampa, FL 33607 813--232-4887 Building Better Infrastructure! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bob Moldashel Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 10:17 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Flawed Spectrum Analysis (I think!) Dustin Jurman wrote: If the spectrum analyzer is left in place for a period of time and setup with peak hold you will quickly find that radio that is used at the end of the day. It still speaks, handshakes and more. I don't know about you but I'm not about to leave a spectrum analyzer 180' up a tower for any period of time. Just setting up big shots and blowing people out is bad business for everyone. I am not saying to blow people out of the water with power. I am saying to make sure you have ample power and gain to supply a solid signal. Running at -78 on a link is not a solid signal in my mind. We only use equipment where we can control the power. We don't run full bore unlike alot of WISP operators. We don't plug radios like Motorola Canopy units into omni's. And my opinion is if I blow that guy off the air, so be it. It was not properly engineered to begin with. It was finacially engineered to get by cheap. If the customer wants a quality shot then there should be no problem doing a spectrum analysis, freq decision and installation shortly after. But the point is moot if Johnny O comes along on your channel tomorrow and blows you off the air (I am only using him as an example). Then the customer is all pissy because he spent money for spectrum analysis that was totally moot. I agree it's only good for a certain amount of time, but if the customer wants a reliable shot then due diligence is better than chance luck. I don't think a properly engineered link is chance luck. We don't just pick a channel out of thin air and go with it. Alot of engineering goes into it. Spectrum analysis is just not a factor 99.999 percent of the time. -B- Dustin -- Bob Moldashel Lakeland Communications, Inc. Broadband Deployment Group 1350 Lincoln Avenue Holbrook, New York 11741 USA 800-479-9195 Toll Free US Canada 631-585-5558 Fax 516-551-1131 Cell -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Flawed Spectrum Analysis (I think!)
Dustin, thanks for the encouraging support of my efforts. Since we have been hired for part of this project, I believe it is my RESPONSIBILITY to point out any known issues to the customer; and, it is my responsibility to back up my concerns with hard date, not just 'my feelings.' In the event that the data doesn't show what I know to be in the area, I will at lease be on record for making them aware of other 5Ghz RF in the overlapping areas. I am interested in any information that you are willing to supply for my education. Again, thanks for all of the feedback and discussion in my topic. - Cliff -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dustin Jurman Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 9:42 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] Flawed Spectrum Analysis (I think!) Takes no more than a few minutes to perform a peak hold Bob, maybe you should get one and play with it a bit. It's a very powerful tool and I think your opinion will change. I agree that we have two different schools of thought. 1. Plan the play, play the plan. 2. Show up for the game. Cliff was doing the right thing by doing a spectrum analysis, esp knowing that he was going to go trough some existing equipment. Anything short of that would be irresponsible. I would say to Cliff that if they cannot produce results from the analyzer, graphs and charts than it's worthless and done improperly, just because you have an analyzer doesn't mean you know how to use it. If it's helpful I will post some shots to a website if Cliff thinks that it is helpful. Dustin Jurman Rapid Systems Corporation 1211 North Westshore Blvd Tampa, FL 33607 813--232-4887 Building Better Infrastructure! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bob Moldashel Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 10:17 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Flawed Spectrum Analysis (I think!) Dustin Jurman wrote: If the spectrum analyzer is left in place for a period of time and setup with peak hold you will quickly find that radio that is used at the end of the day. It still speaks, handshakes and more. I don't know about you but I'm not about to leave a spectrum analyzer 180' up a tower for any period of time. Just setting up big shots and blowing people out is bad business for everyone. I am not saying to blow people out of the water with power. I am saying to make sure you have ample power and gain to supply a solid signal. Running at -78 on a link is not a solid signal in my mind. We only use equipment where we can control the power. We don't run full bore unlike alot of WISP operators. We don't plug radios like Motorola Canopy units into omni's. And my opinion is if I blow that guy off the air, so be it. It was not properly engineered to begin with. It was finacially engineered to get by cheap. If the customer wants a quality shot then there should be no problem doing a spectrum analysis, freq decision and installation shortly after. But the point is moot if Johnny O comes along on your channel tomorrow and blows you off the air (I am only using him as an example). Then the customer is all pissy because he spent money for spectrum analysis that was totally moot. I agree it's only good for a certain amount of time, but if the customer wants a reliable shot then due diligence is better than chance luck. I don't think a properly engineered link is chance luck. We don't just pick a channel out of thin air and go with it. Alot of engineering goes into it. Spectrum analysis is just not a factor 99.999 percent of the time. -B- Dustin -- Bob Moldashel Lakeland Communications, Inc. Broadband Deployment Group 1350 Lincoln Avenue Holbrook, New York 11741 USA 800-479-9195 Toll Free US Canada 631-585-5558 Fax 516-551-1131 Cell -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Flawed Spectrum Analysis (I think!)
Dustin Jurman wrote: Takes no more than a few minutes to perform a peak hold Bob, maybe you should get one and play with it a bit. It's a very powerful tool and I think your opinion will change. LOL.Trust me. I know all about peak hold. And my opinion doesn't change. I agree that we have two different schools of thought. 1. Plan the play, play the plan. 2. Show up for the game. Which one am I Cliff was doing the right thing by doing a spectrum analysis, esp knowing that he was going to go trough some existing equipment. Anything short of that would be irresponsible. I would say to Cliff that if they cannot produce results from the analyzer, graphs and charts than it's worthless and done improperly, just because you have an analyzer doesn't mean you know how to use it. Dustin...I know you don't know my background and for that I can understand your reply. It is not irresponsible to do a link without doing a spectrum analysis. If it gives you a comfort level that you enjoy or require, thats fine. I can live with that. I need to go take a nap now. This whole thread made me tired. :-) -B- If it's helpful I will post some shots to a website if Cliff thinks that it is helpful. Dustin Jurman Rapid Systems Corporation 1211 North Westshore Blvd Tampa, FL 33607 813--232-4887 Building Better Infrastructure! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bob Moldashel Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 10:17 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Flawed Spectrum Analysis (I think!) Dustin Jurman wrote: If the spectrum analyzer is left in place for a period of time and setup with peak hold you will quickly find that radio that is used at the end of the day. It still speaks, handshakes and more. I don't know about you but I'm not about to leave a spectrum analyzer 180' up a tower for any period of time. Just setting up big shots and blowing people out is bad business for everyone. I am not saying to blow people out of the water with power. I am saying to make sure you have ample power and gain to supply a solid signal. Running at -78 on a link is not a solid signal in my mind. We only use equipment where we can control the power. We don't run full bore unlike alot of WISP operators. We don't plug radios like Motorola Canopy units into omni's. And my opinion is if I blow that guy off the air, so be it. It was not properly engineered to begin with. It was finacially engineered to get by cheap. If the customer wants a quality shot then there should be no problem doing a spectrum analysis, freq decision and installation shortly after. But the point is moot if Johnny O comes along on your channel tomorrow and blows you off the air (I am only using him as an example). Then the customer is all pissy because he spent money for spectrum analysis that was totally moot. I agree it's only good for a certain amount of time, but if the customer wants a reliable shot then due diligence is better than chance luck. I don't think a properly engineered link is chance luck. We don't just pick a channel out of thin air and go with it. Alot of engineering goes into it. Spectrum analysis is just not a factor 99.999 percent of the time. -B- Dustin -- Bob Moldashel Lakeland Communications, Inc. Broadband Deployment Group 1350 Lincoln Avenue Holbrook, New York 11741 USA 800-479-9195 Toll Free US Canada 631-585-5558 Fax 516-551-1131 Cell -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Flawed Spectrum Analysis (I think!)
Cliff Leboeuf wrote: Dustin, thanks for the encouraging support of my efforts. Since we have been hired for part of this project, I believe it is my RESPONSIBILITY to point out any known issues to the customer; and, it is my responsibility to back up my concerns with hard date, not just 'my feelings.' In the event that the data doesn't show what I know to be in the area, I will at lease be on record for making them aware of other 5Ghz RF in the overlapping areas. I am interested in any information that you are willing to supply for my education. Again, thanks for all of the feedback and discussion in my topic. - Cliff Cliff, I can appreciate that you want to give your customer hard data. That is understandable. But you also need to have a list of conditions and presumptions as well as exceptions. Make sure the customer understands that the spectrum analysis is only good for the date it was taken and does not guarantee interference free operation in the future. The last thing you need is to have the customer pay you to do an analysis today and deploy 90 days from now only to find issues. Otherwise...good luck with your customer. -B- -- Bob Moldashel Lakeland Communications, Inc. Broadband Deployment Group 1350 Lincoln Avenue Holbrook, New York 11741 USA 800-479-9195 Toll Free US Canada 631-585-5558 Fax 516-551-1131 Cell -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Flawed Spectrum Analysis (I think!)
I totally agree with Dustin here. Hanging them without looking first is akin to running a stop sign. You'll probably be fine, most of the time. But.. It doesn't take long to look. Bob's right, things can and almost always do get missed. Dustin is also right though, one should find out as much as possible and make an informed decision as to what freq/channel to use. Bob, I'm shocked to hear you say you don't look before you leap! oy! And telling people to use high power radios. Yikes. Dude. People should use as much power as it takes to do that job, not a drop more! ESPECIALLY in urban markets. All a 40 dB fade margin does is cause interference 20 miles (literally) down the road. I sure wish the FCC would put an APC requirement on all future radio designs. Then we could have our high power radios and avoid the rats nest that always eventually comes with using higher power than what's needed. For a point of reference. I have a WiFi based 21 mile ptp link that gets 2 megs of throughput. These are only 17dB INDOOR radios, short lmr400 runs and 24dB grid antennas. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Dustin Jurman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 7:01 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Flawed Spectrum Analysis (I think!) If the spectrum analyzer is left in place for a period of time and setup with peak hold you will quickly find that radio that is used at the end of the day. It still speaks, handshakes and more. Just setting up big shots and blowing people out is bad business for everyone. If the customer wants a quality shot then there should be no problem doing a spectrum analysis, freq decision and installation shortly after. I agree it's only good for a certain amount of time, but if the customer wants a reliable shot then due diligence is better than chance luck. Dustin -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bob Moldashel Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 9:49 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Flawed Spectrum Analysis (I think!) AUGH! This whole thread.. Some have touched on pieces of it but how about this summary.. The Redline is a two piece radio. It does not send 5 Ghz up the cable. It sends an IF frequency which is lower and more forgiving as well as power to operate the outdoor unit. The Redline as pointed out does not have a spectrum analyzer (in the versions I have worked with). As such they probably just checked for RSL on any or all channels. This is not a spectrum analysis by any means. The Redline equipment is great equipment but it is not a spectrum analyzer. A spectrum analysis is flawed in almost any case really because it is only good at the time of the testing and along the path of the test. You really will only see stronger signals with an omni. But you can still have your signal killed if someone is using directional antennas and looking down your path. There is a big difference from 8 dB to 29 dB. The other case is a 5 Ghz. system in place that only is used at the end of the day or does dumps' at certain times. Unlike a full duplex radio like a Proxim Tsunami that is talking all the time regardless of the received signal, you may only see a signal when the associated equipment is passing data. In my book you can't do reliable spectrum analysis with any radio or assocaited radio card. Yes, there are systems out there that work really well but I would not be willing to bet my reputation on most. Will they get you by in most cases??? Sure. But... To answer your question..Yes, the spectrum analysis was flawed. Personally...we never do spectrum analysis. It causes more headaches than what it is worth IMHO. Is it great for finding interference?? Sure. I have installed links in lower Manhattan (nearly 70 to date on unlicensed 5 Ghz), Washington DC and Boston without ever needing a spectrum analysis. All these locations are RF hotbeds. A few things to consider. Use a radio with a very good C/I value. Use 2' or larger antennas to keep the beamwidth tight. Use radios that are capable of 5 or 10 Mhz. channels. Use radios with high RF power output. If you need to run transmission line to the radio, use the right stuff for the job. LMR400 and 5 Ghz. are not my considered options unless the cable length is less than 24. We use LMR600 up to 100' and 5/8 heliax after that. make sure the radio has a good receiver threshold. Wherever possible we use 5.3 Ghz. Last and not least consider your neighbors. If there is only one tall building in town and
Re: [WISPA] Flawed Spectrum Analysis (I think!)
- Original Message - From: Bob Moldashel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 8:08 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Flawed Spectrum Analysis (I think!) Cliff Leboeuf wrote: Dustin, thanks for the encouraging support of my efforts. Since we have been hired for part of this project, I believe it is my RESPONSIBILITY to point out any known issues to the customer; and, it is my responsibility to back up my concerns with hard date, not just 'my feelings.' In the event that the data doesn't show what I know to be in the area, I will at lease be on record for making them aware of other 5Ghz RF in the overlapping areas. I am interested in any information that you are willing to supply for my education. Again, thanks for all of the feedback and discussion in my topic. - Cliff Cliff, I can appreciate that you want to give your customer hard data. That is understandable. But you also need to have a list of conditions and presumptions as well as exceptions. Make sure the customer understands that the spectrum analysis is only good for the date it was taken and does not guarantee interference free operation in the future. The last thing you need is to have the customer pay you to do an analysis today and deploy 90 days from now only to find issues. Great point. We ALWAYS do this. And we also ALWAYS do a spectrum analysys. Sure we'll miss things, there's a LOT out there these days. Conditions also change, sometimes between when we do the SA check and deploy hardware. However, we USUALLY learn a great deal about what's an option and what's not ahead of time. It's pretty rare that we miss enough that we have to back up and start all over with a system design. And I think that you can readily admit that there is a HUGE difference between running ptp links and ptmp links as far as interference exposure is concerned. Most of our stuff is ptmp so we HAVE to look at much greater areas. I DO know you and the amazing things you've done. I still say you are a bad boy! (in more ways than one, cackle) Cliff, you are very much on the right track. You need to tell them what you know so they can make informed dicisions. I'd rather loose a customer because they didn't want to hear what I had to say than keep one that's not happy. marlon Otherwise...good luck with your customer. -B- -- Bob Moldashel Lakeland Communications, Inc. Broadband Deployment Group 1350 Lincoln Avenue Holbrook, New York 11741 USA 800-479-9195 Toll Free US Canada 631-585-5558 Fax 516-551-1131 Cell -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Flawed Spectrum Analysis (I think!)
Bob, I understand you comments and totally agree. They have been informed that any analysis is just a 'snapshot' of the conditions at the time takes. Just like a picture from a camera. Thanks again, Cliff -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bob Moldashel Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 10:09 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Flawed Spectrum Analysis (I think!) Cliff Leboeuf wrote: Dustin, thanks for the encouraging support of my efforts. Since we have been hired for part of this project, I believe it is my RESPONSIBILITY to point out any known issues to the customer; and, it is my responsibility to back up my concerns with hard date, not just 'my feelings.' In the event that the data doesn't show what I know to be in the area, I will at lease be on record for making them aware of other 5Ghz RF in the overlapping areas. I am interested in any information that you are willing to supply for my education. Again, thanks for all of the feedback and discussion in my topic. - Cliff Cliff, I can appreciate that you want to give your customer hard data. That is understandable. But you also need to have a list of conditions and presumptions as well as exceptions. Make sure the customer understands that the spectrum analysis is only good for the date it was taken and does not guarantee interference free operation in the future. The last thing you need is to have the customer pay you to do an analysis today and deploy 90 days from now only to find issues. Otherwise...good luck with your customer. -B- -- Bob Moldashel Lakeland Communications, Inc. Broadband Deployment Group 1350 Lincoln Avenue Holbrook, New York 11741 USA 800-479-9195 Toll Free US Canada 631-585-5558 Fax 516-551-1131 Cell -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Flawed Spectrum Analysis (I think!)
On Fri, 2006-02-10 at 10:17 -0500, Bob Moldashel wrote: Dustin Jurman wrote: If the spectrum analyzer is left in place for a period of time and setup with peak hold you will quickly find that radio that is used at the end of the day. It still speaks, handshakes and more. I don't know about you but I'm not about to leave a spectrum analyzer 180' up a tower for any period of time. Just setting up big shots and blowing people out is bad business for everyone. I am not saying to blow people out of the water with power. I am saying to make sure you have ample power and gain to supply a solid signal. Running at -78 on a link is not a solid signal in my mind. We only use equipment where we can control the power. We don't run full bore unlike alot of WISP operators. We don't plug radios like Motorola Canopy units into omni's. And my opinion is if I blow that guy off the air, so be it. It was not properly engineered to begin with. It was finacially engineered to get by cheap. I would have to agree here with Bob - Anyone engineering their links properly are going to use the best antennas with the narrowest beamwidth possible to mitigate any current or future interference. In my mind, an antenna that has 8deg beamwidth for a critical link is absolutely ignorant. If the customer wants a quality shot then there should be no problem doing a spectrum analysis, freq decision and installation shortly after. But the point is moot if Johnny O comes along on your channel tomorrow and blows you off the air (I am only using him as an example). Then the customer is all pissy because he spent money for spectrum analysis that was totally moot. And this again is where the man with the better antennas will win hands down everytime. Even with a noisly spectrum in the area, lf you're using good antennas, chances are you'll knock someone down before they knock you down. It doesn't matter who was where first, what matters is that you run your own business or that of your customers with the most attention to mitigation of interference. JohnnyO I agree it's only good for a certain amount of time, but if the customer wants a reliable shot then due diligence is better than chance luck. I don't think a properly engineered link is chance luck. We don't just pick a channel out of thin air and go with it. Alot of engineering goes into it. Spectrum analysis is just not a factor 99.999 percent of the time. -B- Dustin -- Bob Moldashel Lakeland Communications, Inc. Broadband Deployment Group 1350 Lincoln Avenue Holbrook, New York 11741 USA 800-479-9195 Toll Free US Canada 631-585-5558 Fax 516-551-1131 Cell -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Re: [isp-wireless] Congress Is Rewriting the Broadband Laws in 2006
Good catch Jack! Here's the letter I just sent to my congresswoman: Dear Congresswoman McMorris, As a long time (nearly a decade now) Internet Service Provider and founding board member of the Wireless Internet Service Provider's Association (www.wispa.org) I would like to talk with you or someone from your office. There are many issues up in the air right now. And many of the mechanisms that have been in place over the years that have helped fuel the broadband revolution are being destroyed. The '96 telecom act has been all but gutted. Former FCC chairman Powell's work at supporting competition to the cable/telco duopoly is in grave danger. The spectrum auction system has proven to be a disaster for broadband services yet looks like it'll be used again. With issues like this: http://news.com.com/Broadband+law+rewrite+planned+for%20+2006/2100-1028_3-6036677.html?tag=nefd.top And several open FCC spectrum policy issues on the table and teetering on the edge of corporate giant vs. entrepreneurs I'm fearful that my industry is about to be harmed by my own chosen party. I can't make it out to DC at this time. If there is a closer office that you will be at or your best advisor on this issue will be at I'd love the opportunity to set up a meeting with a handful of my peers. We'd love the opportunity to expose you to a segment of the broadband industry that doesn't have billions per year in lobbing funding available like I've been told the telco spends. Thank you for your time. I look forward to hearing from you. P.S. I love getting the news letters. I'm glad you started using that technology. Sincerely, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 1:30 PM Subject: [isp-wireless] Congress Is Rewriting the Broadband Laws in 2006 Just a heads-up for anyone interested in providing input to your representatives in the House and Senate regarding how rewriting the telecommunications laws will affect your business (either negatively or positively). http://news.com.com/Broadband+law+rewrite+planned+for%20+2006/2100-1028_3-6036677.html?tag=nefd.top Unless you raise your voice, your wishes and desires will remain ignored and unknown. Said in another way... If you don't ask... the answer is NO. -- Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Serving the License-Free Wireless Industry Since 1993 Author of the WISP Handbook - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs True Vendor-Neutral WISP Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting (Phone 818-227-4220 - VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) www.ask-wi.com ** ISPCON Spring 2006 - May 16 - 18 - Baltimore, MD www.ispcon.com ** ** THE EVENT for ISPs, WISPS, CLECs and WebHosts ** ** Going Wireless? Visit ISPCON before the leap! ** ___ The ISP-WIRELESS Discussion List ___ To Join: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Remove: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-wireless/archives/ To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with. Copyright 2005 Jupitermedia Corporation All Rights Reserved. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] SuperRange2 Info
List, Can someone tell me if the output power of the SuperRange2 card can be adjusted to any power output or just predetermined discrete levels, ie, 50mw, 100mw, 200mw.? If only discrete levels, what are they? I can't find web documentation for the SR2 anywhere. Lastly, is there a mini-pci radio that can be adjusted to any output or at least 50mw? Jason -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] service contract prices
Hi All, I've been asked to provide a network for a complex of buildings. They like the ease of deployment and flexibility of a Trango based network. I'll lock them into a 3 year contract that will match the time frame I'll need for a bank loan for the hardware. I'll need to put in 3 ap's and 4 cpe units. As well as battery backup units all installation work etc. Additional cpe is possible but not guaranteed in the future. My question is, what do I charge for this? I can handle the monthly part but I've never put a service contract on a wlan before. Used to do it in my copier days all the time so I understand the concept. Just need some help with the numbers. The site is about 1.5 hours from me, and that far from anyone else that knows anything about anything too. I believe that the contract price should be tied to cpe deployed. Too low and any repair work, device failures etc. will kill me. Too high and I'll loose the deal. What's standard in the industry? As I'll be using Trango I'll hopefully be giving them 8 to 9 megs of throughput (all sites are within 1/8th of a mile) from building to building. I'll likely only contract for 6 megs though. thanks, Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] service contract prices
Marlon, A you going to keep ownership of the equipment and just provide them with a connectivity solution; or, are you going to pass ownership to them and just maintain the system for them? - Cliff -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 11:57 AM To: wireless@wispa.org Cc: isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com Subject: [WISPA] service contract prices Hi All, I've been asked to provide a network for a complex of buildings. They like the ease of deployment and flexibility of a Trango based network. I'll lock them into a 3 year contract that will match the time frame I'll need for a bank loan for the hardware. I'll need to put in 3 ap's and 4 cpe units. As well as battery backup units all installation work etc. Additional cpe is possible but not guaranteed in the future. My question is, what do I charge for this? I can handle the monthly part but I've never put a service contract on a wlan before. Used to do it in my copier days all the time so I understand the concept. Just need some help with the numbers. The site is about 1.5 hours from me, and that far from anyone else that knows anything about anything too. I believe that the contract price should be tied to cpe deployed. Too low and any repair work, device failures etc. will kill me. Too high and I'll loose the deal. What's standard in the industry? As I'll be using Trango I'll hopefully be giving them 8 to 9 megs of throughput (all sites are within 1/8th of a mile) from building to building. I'll likely only contract for 6 megs though. thanks, Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] SuperRange2 Info
http://resources.mini-box.com/online/Super%20Range%202%20miniPCI/Super%20Ran ge%202%20miniPCI-specs.pdf You will have to convert dB to mW http://my.athenet.net/~multiplx/cgi-bin/dbconv.main.cgi -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 12:43 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] SuperRange2 Info List, Can someone tell me if the output power of the SuperRange2 card can be adjusted to any power output or just predetermined discrete levels, ie, 50mw, 100mw, 200mw.? If only discrete levels, what are they? I can't find web documentation for the SR2 anywhere. Lastly, is there a mini-pci radio that can be adjusted to any output or at least 50mw? Jason -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] service contract prices
I would strongly suggest looking at Mikrotik for the following reasons. #1 - Pricing - very inexpensive to maintain and swap out equipment in the event of a failure #2 - You can provide them up to 36meg connectivity for the same pricing anyone can offer then 10megs #3 - Ease of replacements You can also provide them Wi-Fi connectivity with a MT Based system for laptops in between the properties if they desire. The reason I suggest MT is the amount of flexibility and options you can tack are are far superior to any proprietory solution out there you can get your hands on. JohnnyO On Fri, 2006-02-10 at 09:57 -0800, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: Hi All, I've been asked to provide a network for a complex of buildings. They like the ease of deployment and flexibility of a Trango based network. I'll lock them into a 3 year contract that will match the time frame I'll need for a bank loan for the hardware. I'll need to put in 3 ap's and 4 cpe units. As well as battery backup units all installation work etc. Additional cpe is possible but not guaranteed in the future. My question is, what do I charge for this? I can handle the monthly part but I've never put a service contract on a wlan before. Used to do it in my copier days all the time so I understand the concept. Just need some help with the numbers. The site is about 1.5 hours from me, and that far from anyone else that knows anything about anything too. I believe that the contract price should be tied to cpe deployed. Too low and any repair work, device failures etc. will kill me. Too high and I'll loose the deal. What's standard in the industry? As I'll be using Trango I'll hopefully be giving them 8 to 9 megs of throughput (all sites are within 1/8th of a mile) from building to building. I'll likely only contract for 6 megs though. thanks, Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] service contract prices
The system will be mine. But by the time it gets pulled out it's likely to be pretty obsolete. Equipment costs will be handled separately from the service contract. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Cliff Leboeuf [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 10:20 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] service contract prices Marlon, A you going to keep ownership of the equipment and just provide them with a connectivity solution; or, are you going to pass ownership to them and just maintain the system for them? - Cliff -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 11:57 AM To: wireless@wispa.org Cc: isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com Subject: [WISPA] service contract prices Hi All, I've been asked to provide a network for a complex of buildings. They like the ease of deployment and flexibility of a Trango based network. I'll lock them into a 3 year contract that will match the time frame I'll need for a bank loan for the hardware. I'll need to put in 3 ap's and 4 cpe units. As well as battery backup units all installation work etc. Additional cpe is possible but not guaranteed in the future. My question is, what do I charge for this? I can handle the monthly part but I've never put a service contract on a wlan before. Used to do it in my copier days all the time so I understand the concept. Just need some help with the numbers. The site is about 1.5 hours from me, and that far from anyone else that knows anything about anything too. I believe that the contract price should be tied to cpe deployed. Too low and any repair work, device failures etc. will kill me. Too high and I'll loose the deal. What's standard in the industry? As I'll be using Trango I'll hopefully be giving them 8 to 9 megs of throughput (all sites are within 1/8th of a mile) from building to building. I'll likely only contract for 6 megs though. thanks, Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] service contract prices
Hiya Johnny, This is a casino. The security and reliability requirements rule out any 802.11 type gear. Marlon(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: JohnnyO To: WISPA General List Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 10:42 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] service contract prices I would strongly suggest looking at Mikrotik for the following reasons.#1 - Pricing - very inexpensive to maintain and swap out equipment in the event of a failure#2 - You can provide them up to 36meg connectivity for the same pricing anyone can offer then 10megs#3 - Ease of replacementsYou can also provide them Wi-Fi connectivity with a MT Based system for laptops in between the properties if they desire. The reason I suggest MT is the amount of flexibility and options you can tack are are far superior to any proprietory solution out there you can get your hands on. JohnnyOOn Fri, 2006-02-10 at 09:57 -0800, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: Hi All, I've been asked to provide a network for a complex of buildings. They like the ease of deployment and flexibility of a Trango based network. I'll lock them into a 3 year contract that will match the time frame I'll need for a bank loan for the hardware. I'll need to put in 3 ap's and 4 cpe units. As well as battery backup units all installation work etc. Additional cpe is possible but not guaranteed in the future. My question is, what do I charge for this? I can handle the monthly part but I've never put a service contract on a wlan before. Used to do it in my copier days all the time so I understand the concept. Just need some help with the numbers. The site is about 1.5 hours from me, and that far from anyone else that knows anything about anything too. I believe that the contract price should be tied to cpe deployed. Too low and any repair work, device failures etc. will kill me. Too high and I'll loose the deal. What's standard in the industry? As I'll be using Trango I'll hopefully be giving them 8 to 9 megs of throughput (all sites are within 1/8th of a mile) from building to building. I'll likely only contract for 6 megs though. thanks, Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.orgSubscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wirelessArchives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] service contract prices
Why 3 APs ? Gino A. Villarini, Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.aeronetpr.com 787.273.4143 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 3:03 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] service contract prices Hiya Johnny, This is a casino. The security and reliability requirements rule out any 802.11 type gear. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services 42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: JohnnyO To: WISPA General List Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 10:42 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] service contract prices I would strongly suggest looking at Mikrotik for the following reasons. #1 - Pricing - very inexpensive to maintain and swap out equipment in the event of a failure #2 - You can provide them up to 36meg connectivity for the same pricing anyone can offer then 10megs #3 - Ease of replacements You can also provide them Wi-Fi connectivity with a MT Based system for laptops in between the properties if they desire. The reason I suggest MT is the amount of flexibility and options you can tack are are far superior to any proprietory solution out there you can get your hands on. JohnnyO On Fri, 2006-02-10 at 09:57 -0800, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: Hi All,I've been asked to provide a network for a complex of buildings.They like the ease of deployment and flexibility of a Trango based network.I'll lock them into a 3 year contract that will match the time frame I'll need for a bank loan for the hardware.I'll need to put in 3 ap's and 4 cpe units. As well as battery backup units all installation work etc. Additional cpe is possible but not guaranteed in the future.My question is, what do I charge for this? I can handle the monthly part but I've never put a service contract on a wlan before. Used to do it in my copier days all the time so I understand the concept. Just need some help with the numbers.The site is about 1.5 hours from me, and that far from anyone else that knows anything about anything too. I believe that the contract price should be tied to cpe deployed.Too low and any repair work, device failures etc. will kill me. Too high and I'll loose the deal. What's standard in the industry? As I'll be using Trango I'll hopefully be giving them 8 to 9 megs of throughput (all sites are within 1/8th of a mile) from building to building. I'll likely only contract for 6 megs though.thanks,Marlon(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] service contract prices
Need coverage in 3 different directions. And trango ap's only come with 60* sectors. Plus, they'll likely put in some video surveillance and that will need lots of capacity so we're heading off any likely bw issues. Marlon(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: G.Villarini To: 'WISPA General List' Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 11:05 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] service contract prices Why 3 APs ? Gino A. Villarini, Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.aeronetpr.com 787.273.4143 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 3:03 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General ListSubject: Re: [WISPA] service contract prices Hiya Johnny, This is a casino. The security and reliability requirements rule out any 802.11 type gear. Marlon(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: JohnnyO To: WISPA General List Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 10:42 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] service contract prices I would strongly suggest looking at Mikrotik for the following reasons.#1 - Pricing - very inexpensive to maintain and swap out equipment in the event of a failure#2 - You can provide them up to 36meg connectivity for the same pricing anyone can offer then 10megs#3 - Ease of replacementsYou can also provide them Wi-Fi connectivity with a MT Based system for laptops in between the properties if they desire. The reason I suggest MT is the amount of flexibility and options you can tack are are far superior to any proprietory solution out there you can get your hands on. JohnnyOOn Fri, 2006-02-10 at 09:57 -0800, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: Hi All,I've been asked to provide a network for a complex of buildings.They like the ease of deployment and flexibility of a Trango based network.I'll lock them into a 3 year contract that will match the time frame I'll need for a bank loan for the hardware.I'll need to put in 3 ap's and 4 cpe units. As well as battery backup units all installation work etc. Additional cpe is possible but not guaranteed in the future.My question is, what do I charge for this? I can handle the monthly part but I've never put a service contract on a wlan before. Used to do it in my copier days all the time so I understand the concept. Just need some help with the numbers.The site is about 1.5 hours from me, and that far from anyone else that knows anything about anything too. I believe that the contract price should be tied to cpe deployed.Too low and any repair work, device failures etc. will kill me. Too high and I'll loose the deal. What's standard in the industry? As I'll be using Trango I'll hopefully be giving them 8 to 9 megs of throughput (all sites are within 1/8th of a mile) from building to building. I'll likely only contract for 6 megs though.thanks,Marlon(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.orgSubscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wirelessArchives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.orgSubscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wirelessArchives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] service contract prices
1 suggestion, Last Mile Gear Canopy Advantage Omni Gino A. Villarini, Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.aeronetpr.com 787.273.4143 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 3:17 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] service contract prices Need coverage in 3 different directions. And trango ap's only come with 60* sectors. Plus, they'll likely put in some video surveillance and that will need lots of capacity so we're heading off any likely bw issues. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services 42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: G.Villarini To: 'WISPA General List' Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 11:05 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] service contract prices Why 3 APs ? Gino A. Villarini, Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.aeronetpr.com 787.273.4143 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 3:03 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] service contract prices Hiya Johnny, This is a casino. The security and reliability requirements rule out any 802.11 type gear. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services 42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: JohnnyO To: WISPA General List Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 10:42 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] service contract prices I would strongly suggest looking at Mikrotik for the following reasons. #1 - Pricing - very inexpensive to maintain and swap out equipment in the event of a failure #2 - You can provide them up to 36meg connectivity for the same pricing anyone can offer then 10megs #3 - Ease of replacements You can also provide them Wi-Fi connectivity with a MT Based system for laptops in between the properties if they desire. The reason I suggest MT is the amount of flexibility and options you can tack are are far superior to any proprietory solution out there you can get your hands on. JohnnyO On Fri, 2006-02-10 at 09:57 -0800, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: Hi All,I've been asked to provide a network for a complex of buildings.They like the ease of deployment and flexibility of a Trango based network.I'll lock them into a 3 year contract that will match the time frame I'll need for a bank loan for the hardware.I'll need to put in 3 ap's and 4 cpe units. As well as battery backup units all installation work etc. Additional cpe is possible but not guaranteed in the future.My question is, what do I charge for this? I can handle the monthly part but I've never put a service contract on a wlan before. Used to do it in my copier days all the time so I understand the concept. Just need some help with the numbers.The site is about 1.5 hours from me, and that far from anyone else that knows anything about anything too. I believe that the contract price should be tied to cpe deployed.Too low and any repair work, device failures etc. will kill me. Too high and I'll loose the deal. What's standard in the industry? As I'll be using Trango I'll hopefully be giving them 8 to 9 megs of throughput (all sites are within 1/8th of a mile) from building to building. I'll likely only contract for 6 megs though.thanks,Marlon(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] service contract prices
$40 to $80 per location per month should do the trick. My old High School is doing this with me and I am charging $250 per month contract to service about 6 buildings. They get connectivity every place they want and I get a monthly fee to keep it running. By the way, I retain ownership of all outdoor equipment on this network and they keep inside equipment as their own. If their gear breaks they pay to replace. If my gear breaks it is my problem. This allows you to use the outside gear for other possible networks and such.if you desire. Cheers, Scriv Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: Hi All, I've been asked to provide a network for a complex of buildings. They like the ease of deployment and flexibility of a Trango based network. I'll lock them into a 3 year contract that will match the time frame I'll need for a bank loan for the hardware. I'll need to put in 3 ap's and 4 cpe units. As well as battery backup units all installation work etc. Additional cpe is possible but not guaranteed in the future. My question is, what do I charge for this? I can handle the monthly part but I've never put a service contract on a wlan before. Used to do it in my copier days all the time so I understand the concept. Just need some help with the numbers. The site is about 1.5 hours from me, and that far from anyone else that knows anything about anything too. I believe that the contract price should be tied to cpe deployed. Too low and any repair work, device failures etc. will kill me. Too high and I'll loose the deal. What's standard in the industry? As I'll be using Trango I'll hopefully be giving them 8 to 9 megs of throughput (all sites are within 1/8th of a mile) from building to building. I'll likely only contract for 6 megs though. thanks, Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] service contract prices
Heard yesterday from Trango thatthey (in about a month) will come out with a connectorized version of the 5830 AP and will certify a Pacwireless omni hpol sector. Mark NashNetwork EngineerUnwiredOnline.Net350 Holly StreetJunction City, OR 97448http://www.uwol.net541-998-541-998-5599 fax - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 To: WISPA General List Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 11:17 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] service contract prices Need coverage in 3 different directions. And trango ap's only come with 60* sectors. Plus, they'll likely put in some video surveillance and that will need lots of capacity so we're heading off any likely bw issues. Marlon(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: G.Villarini To: 'WISPA General List' Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 11:05 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] service contract prices Why 3 APs ? Gino A. Villarini, Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.aeronetpr.com 787.273.4143 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 3:03 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General ListSubject: Re: [WISPA] service contract prices Hiya Johnny, This is a casino. The security and reliability requirements rule out any 802.11 type gear. Marlon(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: JohnnyO To: WISPA General List Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 10:42 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] service contract prices I would strongly suggest looking at Mikrotik for the following reasons.#1 - Pricing - very inexpensive to maintain and swap out equipment in the event of a failure#2 - You can provide them up to 36meg connectivity for the same pricing anyone can offer then 10megs#3 - Ease of replacementsYou can also provide them Wi-Fi connectivity with a MT Based system for laptops in between the properties if they desire. The reason I suggest MT is the amount of flexibility and options you can tack are are far superior to any proprietory solution out there you can get your hands on. JohnnyOOn Fri, 2006-02-10 at 09:57 -0800, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: Hi All,I've been asked to provide a network for a complex of buildings.They like the ease of deployment and flexibility of a Trango based network.I'll lock them into a 3 year contract that will match the time frame I'll need for a bank loan for the hardware.I'll need to put in 3 ap's and 4 cpe units. As well as battery backup units all installation work etc. Additional cpe is possible but not guaranteed in the future.My question is, what do I charge for this? I can handle the monthly part but I've never put a service contract on a wlan before. Used to do it in my copier days all the time so I understand the concept. Just need some help with the numbers.The site is about 1.5 hours from me, and that far from anyone else that knows anything about anything too. I believe that the contract price should be tied to cpe deployed.Too low and any repair work, device failures etc. will kill me. Too high and I'll loose the deal. What's standard in the industry? As I'll be using Trango I'll hopefully be giving them 8 to 9 megs of throughput (all sites are within 1/8th of a mile) from building to building. I'll likely only contract for 6 megs though.thanks,Marlon(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.orgSubscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wirelessArchives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.orgSubscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wirelessArchives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.orgSubscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wirelessArchives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --
Re: [WISPA] service contract prices
I know I work with EC. And I know people like Canopy. I know I'm only supposed to say nice things. But Motorola is STILL working hard at the FCC level to hamstring this industry. I'll not support them unless there are no other choices. I won't even use a moto cell phone at this point, I'm so discussed with what they've been doing at the FCC. Marlon(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: G.Villarini To: 'WISPA General List' Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 11:19 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] service contract prices 1 suggestion, Last Mile Gear Canopy Advantage Omni Gino A. Villarini, Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.aeronetpr.com 787.273.4143 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 3:17 PMTo: WISPA General ListSubject: Re: [WISPA] service contract prices Need coverage in 3 different directions. And trango ap's only come with 60* sectors. Plus, they'll likely put in some video surveillance and that will need lots of capacity so we're heading off any likely bw issues. Marlon(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: G.Villarini To: 'WISPA General List' Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 11:05 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] service contract prices Why 3 APs ? Gino A. Villarini, Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.aeronetpr.com 787.273.4143 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 3:03 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General ListSubject: Re: [WISPA] service contract prices Hiya Johnny, This is a casino. The security and reliability requirements rule out any 802.11 type gear. Marlon(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: JohnnyO To: WISPA General List Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 10:42 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] service contract prices I would strongly suggest looking at Mikrotik for the following reasons.#1 - Pricing - very inexpensive to maintain and swap out equipment in the event of a failure#2 - You can provide them up to 36meg connectivity for the same pricing anyone can offer then 10megs#3 - Ease of replacementsYou can also provide them Wi-Fi connectivity with a MT Based system for laptops in between the properties if they desire. The reason I suggest MT is the amount of flexibility and options you can tack are are far superior to any proprietory solution out there you can get your hands on. JohnnyOOn Fri, 2006-02-10 at 09:57 -0800, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: Hi All,I've been asked to provide a network for a complex of buildings.They like the ease of deployment and flexibility of a Trango based network.I'll lock them into a 3 year contract that will match the time frame I'll need for a bank loan for the hardware.I'll need to put in 3 ap's and 4 cpe units. As well as battery backup units all installation work etc. Additional cpe is possible but not guaranteed in the future.My question is, what do I charge for this? I can handle the monthly part but I've never put a service contract on a wlan before. Used to do it in my copier days all the time so I understand the concept. Just need some help with the numbers.The site is about 1.5 hours from me, and that far from anyone else that knows anything about anything too. I believe that the contract price should be tied to cpe deployed.Too low and any repair work, device failures etc. will kill me. Too high and I'll loose the deal. What's standard in the industry? As I'll be using Trango I'll hopefully be giving them 8 to 9 megs of throughput (all sites are within 1/8th of a mile) from building to building. I'll likely only contract for 6 megs though.thanks,Marlon(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)
Re: [WISPA] service contract prices
That's pretty close to what I was thinking. Thanks, Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 11:29 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] service contract prices $40 to $80 per location per month should do the trick. My old High School is doing this with me and I am charging $250 per month contract to service about 6 buildings. They get connectivity every place they want and I get a monthly fee to keep it running. By the way, I retain ownership of all outdoor equipment on this network and they keep inside equipment as their own. If their gear breaks they pay to replace. If my gear breaks it is my problem. This allows you to use the outside gear for other possible networks and such.if you desire. Cheers, Scriv Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: Hi All, I've been asked to provide a network for a complex of buildings. They like the ease of deployment and flexibility of a Trango based network. I'll lock them into a 3 year contract that will match the time frame I'll need for a bank loan for the hardware. I'll need to put in 3 ap's and 4 cpe units. As well as battery backup units all installation work etc. Additional cpe is possible but not guaranteed in the future. My question is, what do I charge for this? I can handle the monthly part but I've never put a service contract on a wlan before. Used to do it in my copier days all the time so I understand the concept. Just need some help with the numbers. The site is about 1.5 hours from me, and that far from anyone else that knows anything about anything too. I believe that the contract price should be tied to cpe deployed. Too low and any repair work, device failures etc. will kill me. Too high and I'll loose the deal. What's standard in the industry? As I'll be using Trango I'll hopefully be giving them 8 to 9 megs of throughput (all sites are within 1/8th of a mile) from building to building. I'll likely only contract for 6 megs though. thanks, Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: Was - [WISPA] service contract prices - What is moto doing?
What are they doing at the FCC??Can you point me to a few links or otherwise enlighten me?On Feb 10, 2006, at 1:07 PM, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: I know I work with EC. And I know people like Canopy. I know I'm only supposed to say nice things. But Motorola is STILL working hard at the FCC level to hamstring this industry. I'll not support them unless there are no other choices. I won't even use a moto cell phone at this point, I'm so discussed with what they've been doing at the FCC. Marlon(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: G.Villarini To: 'WISPA General List' Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 11:19 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] service contract prices1 suggestion, Last Mile Gear Canopy Advantage Omni Gino A. Villarini, Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.[EMAIL PROTECTED]www.aeronetpr.com787.273.4143 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 3:17 PMTo: WISPA General ListSubject: Re: [WISPA] service contract prices Need coverage in 3 different directions. And trango ap's only come with 60* sectors. Plus, they'll likely put in some video surveillance and that will need lots of capacity so we're heading off any likely bw issues. Marlon(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: G.Villarini To: 'WISPA General List' Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 11:05 AMSubject: RE: [WISPA] service contract prices Why 3 APs ? Gino A. Villarini, Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.[EMAIL PROTECTED]www.aeronetpr.com787.273.4143 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 3:03 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General ListSubject: Re: [WISPA] service contract prices Hiya Johnny, This is a casino. The security and reliability requirements rule out any 802.11 type gear. Marlon(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: JohnnyO To: WISPA General List Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 10:42 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] service contract prices I would strongly suggest looking at Mikrotik for the following reasons.#1 - Pricing - very inexpensive to maintain and swap out equipment in the event of a failure#2 - You can provide them up to 36meg connectivity for the same pricing anyone can offer then 10megs#3 - Ease of replacementsYou can also provide them Wi-Fi connectivity with a MT Based system for laptops in between the properties if they desire. The reason I suggest MT is the amount of flexibility and options you can tack are are far superior to any proprietory solution out there you can get your hands on. JohnnyOOn Fri, 2006-02-10 at 09:57 -0800, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: Hi All, I've been asked to provide a network for a complex of buildings. They like the ease of deployment and flexibility of a Trango based network. I'll lock them into a 3 year contract that will match the time frame I'll need for a bank loan for the hardware. I'll need to put in 3 ap's and 4 cpe units. As well as battery backup units all installation work etc. Additional cpe is possible but not guaranteed in the future. My question is, what do I charge for this? I can handle the monthly part but I've never put a service contract on a wlan before. Used to do it in my copier days all the time so I understand the concept. Just need some help with the numbers. The site is about 1.5 hours from me, and that far from anyone else that knows anything about anything too. I believe that the contract price should be tied to cpe deployed. Too low and any repair work, device failures etc. will kill me. Too high and I'll loose the deal. What's standard in the industry? As I'll be using Trango I'll hopefully be giving them 8 to 9 megs of throughput (all sites are within 1/8th of a mile) from
RE: Was - [WISPA] service contract prices - What is moto doing?
The Cellular Sector is pushing for licensing the 3.65 band You got to understand that MOTO is huge organization not like other Manufacturers. And The Cellular Division is pushing for licensing the 3.65 band so they can sell more BTS to the Cell operators.AFAIK, the Canopy group has nothing to do with this since they are on another Division Sometimes your right hand doesnt know what the left is doing Not the case with smaller guys like Trango, which only serve a handful of markets Gino A. Villarini, Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.aeronetpr.com 787.273.4143 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dan Petermann Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 4:16 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: Was - [WISPA] service contract prices - What is moto doing? What are they doing at the FCC?? Can you point me to a few links or otherwise enlighten me? On Feb 10, 2006, at 1:07 PM, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: I know I work with EC. And I know people like Canopy. I know I'm only supposed to say nice things. But Motorola is STILL working hard at the FCC level to hamstring this industry. I'll not support them unless there are no other choices. I won't even use a moto cell phone at this point, I'm so discussed with what they've been doing at the FCC. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services 42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: G.Villarini To: 'WISPA General List' Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 11:19 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] service contract prices 1 suggestion, Last Mile Gear Canopy Advantage Omni Gino A. Villarini, Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.aeronetpr.com 787.273.4143 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 3:17 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] service contract prices Need coverage in 3 different directions. And trango ap's only come with 60* sectors. Plus, they'll likely put in some video surveillance and that will need lots of capacity so we're heading off any likely bw issues. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services 42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: G.Villarini To: 'WISPA General List' Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 11:05 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] service contract prices Why 3 APs ? Gino A. Villarini, Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.aeronetpr.com 787.273.4143 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 3:03 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] service contract prices Hiya Johnny, This is a casino. The security and reliability requirements rule out any 802.11 type gear. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services 42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: JohnnyO To: WISPA General List Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 10:42 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] service contract prices I would strongly suggest looking at Mikrotik for the following reasons. #1 - Pricing - very inexpensive to maintain and swap out equipment in the event of a failure #2 - You can provide them up to 36meg connectivity for the same pricing anyone can offer then 10megs #3 - Ease of replacements You can also provide them Wi-Fi connectivity with a MT Based system for laptops in between the properties if they desire. The reason I suggest MT is the amount of flexibility and options you can tack are are far superior to any proprietory solution out there you can get your hands on. JohnnyO On Fri, 2006-02-10 at 09:57 -0800, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: Hi All, I've been asked to provide a network for a complex of buildings. They like the ease of deployment and flexibility of a Trango based network. I'll lock them into a 3 year contract that will match the time frame I'll need for a bank loan for the hardware. I'll need to put in 3 ap's and 4 cpe units. As well as battery backup units all installation work etc. Additional cpe is possible but not guaranteed in the future. My question is, what do I charge for this? I can handle the monthly part but I've never put a service contract on a wlan before. Used to do it in my copier days all the time so I
RE: [WISPA] service contract prices
Ohh and you like Trango even tough they pulled the plug on Distis like EC ? .. Gino A. Villarini, Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.aeronetpr.com 787.273.4143 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 4:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] service contract prices I know I work with EC. And I know people like Canopy. I know I'm only supposed to say nice things. But Motorola is STILL working hard at the FCC level to hamstring this industry. I'll not support them unless there are no other choices. I won't even use a moto cell phone at this point, I'm so discussed with what they've been doing at the FCC. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services 42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: G.Villarini To: 'WISPA General List' Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 11:19 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] service contract prices 1 suggestion, Last Mile Gear Canopy Advantage Omni Gino A. Villarini, Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.aeronetpr.com 787.273.4143 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 3:17 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] service contract prices Need coverage in 3 different directions. And trango ap's only come with 60* sectors. Plus, they'll likely put in some video surveillance and that will need lots of capacity so we're heading off any likely bw issues. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services 42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: G.Villarini To: 'WISPA General List' Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 11:05 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] service contract prices Why 3 APs ? Gino A. Villarini, Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.aeronetpr.com 787.273.4143 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 3:03 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] service contract prices Hiya Johnny, This is a casino. The security and reliability requirements rule out any 802.11 type gear. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services 42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: JohnnyO To: WISPA General List Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 10:42 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] service contract prices I would strongly suggest looking at Mikrotik for the following reasons. #1 - Pricing - very inexpensive to maintain and swap out equipment in the event of a failure #2 - You can provide them up to 36meg connectivity for the same pricing anyone can offer then 10megs #3 - Ease of replacements You can also provide them Wi-Fi connectivity with a MT Based system for laptops in between the properties if they desire. The reason I suggest MT is the amount of flexibility and options you can tack are are far superior to any proprietory solution out there you can get your hands on. JohnnyO On Fri, 2006-02-10 at 09:57 -0800, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: Hi All,I've been asked to provide a network for a complex of buildings.They like the ease of deployment and flexibility of a Trango based network.I'll lock them into a 3 year contract that will match the time frame I'll need for a bank loan for the hardware.I'll need to put in 3 ap's and 4 cpe units. As well as battery backup units all installation work etc. Additional cpe is possible but not guaranteed in the future.My question is, what do I charge for this? I can handle the monthly part but I've never put a service contract on a wlan before. Used to do it in my copier days all the time so I understand the concept. Just need some help with the numbers.The site is about 1.5 hours from me, and that far from anyone else that knows anything about anything too. I believe that the contract price should be tied to cpe deployed.Too low and any repair work, device failures etc. will kill me. Too high and I'll loose the deal. What's standard in the industry? As I'll be using Trango I'll hopefully be giving them 8 to 9 megs of throughput (all sites are within 1/8th of a mile) from building to building. I'll likely only contract for 6 megs
Re: [WISPA] service contract prices
Marlon, You can open up the Trango 5830AP case and there are already connectors in there. Just unplug the ones to the internal antenna and plug in the new MMCX to NFemale adapter, drill out the hole for the NFemale(or your choice) either in the side or through the plastic front. Its easy and very cost effective :-) - - - just don't over tighten the housing screws as they are self tapping and will pull all your threads out. Good Luck on your Casino deal!! Mac Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: I know I work with EC. And I know people like Canopy. I know I'm only supposed to say nice things. But Motorola is STILL working hard at the FCC level to hamstring this industry. I'll not support them unless there are no other choices. I won't even use a moto cell phone at this point, I'm so discussed with what they've been doing at the FCC. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless http://www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam http://www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - *From:* G.Villarini mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* 'WISPA General List' mailto:wireless@wispa.org *Sent:* Friday, February 10, 2006 11:19 AM *Subject:* RE: [WISPA] service contract prices 1 suggestion, Last Mile Gear Canopy Advantage Omni Gino A. Villarini, Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] www.aeronetpr.com http://www.aeronetpr.com 787.273.4143 *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 *Sent:* Friday, February 10, 2006 3:17 PM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] service contract prices Need coverage in 3 different directions. And trango ap's only come with 60* sectors. Plus, they'll likely put in some video surveillance and that will need lots of capacity so we're heading off any likely bw issues. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless http://www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam http://www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - *From:* G.Villarini mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* 'WISPA General List' mailto:wireless@wispa.org *Sent:* Friday, February 10, 2006 11:05 AM *Subject:* RE: [WISPA] service contract prices Why 3 APs ? Gino A. Villarini, Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] www.aeronetpr.com http://www.aeronetpr.com 787.273.4143 *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 *Sent:* Friday, February 10, 2006 3:03 PM *To:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] service contract prices Hiya Johnny, This is a casino. The security and reliability requirements rule out any 802.11 type gear. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless http://www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam http://www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - *From:* JohnnyO mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org *Sent:* Friday, February 10, 2006 10:42 AM *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] service contract prices I would strongly suggest looking at Mikrotik for the following reasons. #1 - Pricing - very inexpensive to maintain and swap out equipment in the event of a failure #2 - You can provide them up to 36meg connectivity for the same pricing anyone can offer then
Re: [WISPA] service contract prices
I have talked to Trango ( as a matter of fact they visited me here Tuesday) at length about that issue Gino and they had reasons for pulling their VAR's and resellers. I kinda figured it had something to do with the new products and lack of a LARGE profit margin :-) Mac G.Villarini wrote: Ohh and you like Trango even tough they pulled the plug on Distis like EC ? ….. Gino A. Villarini, Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] www.aeronetpr.com http://www.aeronetpr.com/ 787.273.4143 *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 *Sent:* Friday, February 10, 2006 4:08 PM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] service contract prices I know I work with EC. And I know people like Canopy. I know I'm only supposed to say nice things. But Motorola is STILL working hard at the FCC level to hamstring this industry. I'll not support them unless there are no other choices. I won't even use a moto cell phone at this point, I'm so discussed with what they've been doing at the FCC. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services 42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless http://www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam http://www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - *From:* G.Villarini mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* 'WISPA General List' mailto:wireless@wispa.org *Sent:* Friday, February 10, 2006 11:19 AM *Subject:* RE: [WISPA] service contract prices 1 suggestion, Last Mile Gear Canopy Advantage Omni Gino A. Villarini, Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] www.aeronetpr.com http://www.aeronetpr.com 787.273.4143 *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 *Sent:* Friday, February 10, 2006 3:17 PM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] service contract prices Need coverage in 3 different directions. And trango ap's only come with 60* sectors. Plus, they'll likely put in some video surveillance and that will need lots of capacity so we're heading off any likely bw issues. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services 42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless http://www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam http://www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - *From:* G.Villarini mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* 'WISPA General List' mailto:wireless@wispa.org *Sent:* Friday, February 10, 2006 11:05 AM *Subject:* RE: [WISPA] service contract prices Why 3 APs ? Gino A. Villarini, Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] www.aeronetpr.com http://www.aeronetpr.com 787.273.4143 *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 *Sent:* Friday, February 10, 2006 3:03 PM *To:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] service contract prices Hiya Johnny, This is a casino. The security and reliability requirements rule out any 802.11 type gear. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services 42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless http://www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam http://www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - *From:* JohnnyO mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org *Sent:* Friday, February 10, 2006 10:42 AM *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] service contract prices I would strongly suggest looking at Mikrotik for the following reasons. #1 - Pricing - very inexpensive to maintain and swap out equipment in the event of a failure #2 - You can provide them up to 36meg connectivity for the same pricing anyone can offer then 10megs #3 - Ease of replacements You can also provide them Wi-Fi connectivity with a MT Based system for
Re: Was - [WISPA] service contract prices - What is moto doing?
Ok, Thanks.I use to work for a large corp., they seem to like to shoot their own feet off.On Feb 10, 2006, at 1:24 PM, G.Villarini wrote: The Cellular Sector is pushing for licensing the 3.65 band… You got to understand that MOTO is huge organization not like other Manufacturers. And The Cellular Division is pushing for licensing the 3.65 band so they can sell more BTS to the Cell operators….AFAIK, the Canopy group has nothing to do with this since they are on another Division… Sometimes your right hand doesn’t know what the left is doing …Not the case with smaller guys like Trango, which only serve a handful of markets Gino A. Villarini, Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.[EMAIL PROTECTED]www.aeronetpr.com787.273.4143 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Dan Petermann Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 4:16 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: Was - [WISPA] service contract prices - What is moto doing? What are they doing at the FCC?? Can you point me to a few links or otherwise enlighten me? On Feb 10, 2006, at 1:07 PM, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:I know I work with EC. And I know people like Canopy. I know I'm only supposed to say nice things. But Motorola is STILL working hard at the FCC level to hamstring this industry. I'll not support them unless there are no other choices. I won't even use a moto cell phone at this point, I'm so discussed with what they've been doing at the FCC. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services 42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: G.Villarini To: 'WISPA General List' Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 11:19 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] service contract prices 1 suggestion, Last Mile Gear Canopy Advantage Omni Gino A. Villarini, Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.aeronetpr.com 787.273.4143 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 3:17 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] service contract prices Need coverage in 3 different directions. And trango ap's only come with 60* sectors. Plus, they'll likely put in some video surveillance and that will need lots of capacity so we're heading off any likely bw issues. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services 42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam- Original Message - From: G.Villarini To: 'WISPA General List' Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 11:05 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] service contract prices Why 3 APs ? Gino A. Villarini, Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.aeronetpr.com 787.273.4143 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 3:03 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] service contract prices Hiya Johnny, This is a casino. The security and reliability requirements rule out any 802.11 type gear. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services 42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam- Original Message - From: JohnnyO To: WISPA General List Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 10:42 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] service contract prices I would strongly suggest looking at Mikrotik for the following reasons. #1 - Pricing - very inexpensive to maintain and swap out equipment in the event of a failure #2 - You can provide them up to 36meg connectivity for the same pricing anyone can offer then 10megs #3 - Ease of replacements You can also provide them Wi-Fi connectivity with a MT Based system for laptops in between the properties if they desire. The reason I suggest MT is the amount of flexibility and options you can tack are are far superior to any proprietory solution out there you can get your hands on. JohnnyO On Fri, 2006-02-10 at 09:57 -0800, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: Hi All, I've been asked to provide a network for a complex of buildings. They like the ease of deployment and flexibility of a Trango based network. I'll lock them into a 3 year contract that will match the time frame I'll need for a bank loan for the hardware. I'll need to put in 3 ap's and 4 cpe units. As well as battery backup units all installation work etc. Additional cpe is possible but not guaranteed in the future. My question is, what do I charge for this? I can handle the monthly part but I've never put a service contract on a wlan before. Used to do it in my copier days all the time so I understand the concept. Just need some help with the numbers. The site is
Re: Was - [WISPA] service contract prices - What is moto doing?
They know cause I've told them :-). There are issues in the 700 band too. EVERY filing has been against unlicensed. laters, Marlon(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: G.Villarini To: 'WISPA General List' Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 12:24 PM Subject: RE: Was - [WISPA] service contract prices - What is moto doing? The Cellular Sector is pushing for licensing the 3.65 band You got to understand that MOTO is huge organization not like other Manufacturers. And The Cellular Division is pushing for licensing the 3.65 band so they can sell more BTS to the Cell operators .AFAIK, the Canopy group has nothing to do with this since they are on another Division Sometimes your right hand doesnt know what the left is doing Not the case with smaller guys like Trango, which only serve a handful of markets Gino A. Villarini, Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.aeronetpr.com 787.273.4143 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dan PetermannSent: Friday, February 10, 2006 4:16 PMTo: WISPA General ListSubject: Re: Was - [WISPA] service contract prices - What is moto doing? What are they doing at the FCC?? Can you point me to a few links or otherwise enlighten me? On Feb 10, 2006, at 1:07 PM, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: I know I work with EC. And I know people like Canopy. I know I'm only supposed to say nice things. But Motorola is STILL working hard at the FCC level to hamstring this industry. I'll not support them unless there are no other choices. I won't even use a moto cell phone at this point, I'm so discussed with what they've been doing at the FCC. Marlon(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: G.Villarini To: 'WISPA General List' Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 11:19 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] service contract prices 1 suggestion, Last Mile Gear Canopy Advantage Omni Gino A. Villarini, Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.aeronetpr.com 787.273.4143 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 3:17 PMTo: WISPA General ListSubject: Re: [WISPA] service contract prices Need coverage in 3 different directions. And trango ap's only come with 60* sectors. Plus, they'll likely put in some video surveillance and that will need lots of capacity so we're heading off any likely bw issues. Marlon(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: G.Villarini To: 'WISPA General List' Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 11:05 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] service contract prices Why 3 APs ? Gino A. Villarini, Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.aeronetpr.com 787.273.4143 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 3:03 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General ListSubject: Re: [WISPA] service contract prices Hiya Johnny, This is a casino. The security and reliability requirements rule out any 802.11 type gear. Marlon(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: JohnnyO To: WISPA General List Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 10:42 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] service contract prices I would strongly suggest looking at Mikrotik for the following reasons.#1 -
Re: [WISPA] service contract prices
Sigh Yeah, it sucked. But they've done that more than once. We all knew it would happen. It wasn't an if, it was a when. And it's really quite different. They didn't do anything that hurt the overall industry. Their reputation, sure. No one's going to ever trust them. But that's not at all the same as telling the FCC that there's more than enough unlicensed spectrum out there Marlon(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: G.Villarini To: 'WISPA General List' Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 12:25 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] service contract prices Ohh and you like Trango even tough they pulled the plug on Distis like EC ? .. Gino A. Villarini, Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.aeronetpr.com 787.273.4143 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 4:08 PMTo: WISPA General ListSubject: Re: [WISPA] service contract prices I know I work with EC. And I know people like Canopy. I know I'm only supposed to say nice things. But Motorola is STILL working hard at the FCC level to hamstring this industry. I'll not support them unless there are no other choices. I won't even use a moto cell phone at this point, I'm so discussed with what they've been doing at the FCC. Marlon(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: G.Villarini To: 'WISPA General List' Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 11:19 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] service contract prices 1 suggestion, Last Mile Gear Canopy Advantage Omni Gino A. Villarini, Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.aeronetpr.com 787.273.4143 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 3:17 PMTo: WISPA General ListSubject: Re: [WISPA] service contract prices Need coverage in 3 different directions. And trango ap's only come with 60* sectors. Plus, they'll likely put in some video surveillance and that will need lots of capacity so we're heading off any likely bw issues. Marlon(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: G.Villarini To: 'WISPA General List' Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 11:05 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] service contract prices Why 3 APs ? Gino A. Villarini, Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.aeronetpr.com 787.273.4143 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 3:03 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General ListSubject: Re: [WISPA] service contract prices Hiya Johnny, This is a casino. The security and reliability requirements rule out any 802.11 type gear. Marlon(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: JohnnyO To: WISPA General List Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 10:42 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] service contract prices I would strongly suggest looking at Mikrotik for the following reasons.#1 - Pricing - very inexpensive to maintain and swap out equipment in the event of a failure#2 - You can provide them up to 36meg connectivity for the same pricing anyone can offer then 10megs#3 - Ease of replacementsYou can also
Re: [WISPA] service contract prices
Grin No thanks! I like my warranties! And part of the reason for so many ap's is to keep the capacity up when they start doing video across the network. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Mac Dearman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 12:31 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] service contract prices Marlon, You can open up the Trango 5830AP case and there are already connectors in there. Just unplug the ones to the internal antenna and plug in the new MMCX to NFemale adapter, drill out the hole for the NFemale(or your choice) either in the side or through the plastic front. Its easy and very cost effective :-) - - - just don't over tighten the housing screws as they are self tapping and will pull all your threads out. Good Luck on your Casino deal!! Mac Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: I know I work with EC. And I know people like Canopy. I know I'm only supposed to say nice things. But Motorola is STILL working hard at the FCC level to hamstring this industry. I'll not support them unless there are no other choices. I won't even use a moto cell phone at this point, I'm so discussed with what they've been doing at the FCC. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless http://www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam http://www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - *From:* G.Villarini mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* 'WISPA General List' mailto:wireless@wispa.org *Sent:* Friday, February 10, 2006 11:19 AM *Subject:* RE: [WISPA] service contract prices 1 suggestion, Last Mile Gear Canopy Advantage Omni Gino A. Villarini, Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] www.aeronetpr.com http://www.aeronetpr.com 787.273.4143 *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 *Sent:* Friday, February 10, 2006 3:17 PM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] service contract prices Need coverage in 3 different directions. And trango ap's only come with 60* sectors. Plus, they'll likely put in some video surveillance and that will need lots of capacity so we're heading off any likely bw issues. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless http://www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam http://www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - *From:* G.Villarini mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* 'WISPA General List' mailto:wireless@wispa.org *Sent:* Friday, February 10, 2006 11:05 AM *Subject:* RE: [WISPA] service contract prices Why 3 APs ? Gino A. Villarini, Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] www.aeronetpr.com http://www.aeronetpr.com 787.273.4143 *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 *Sent:* Friday, February 10, 2006 3:03 PM *To:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] service contract prices Hiya Johnny, This is a casino. The security and reliability requirements rule out any 802.11 type gear. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless http://www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam http://www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - *From:* JohnnyO mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:*
RE: Was - [WISPA] service contract prices - What is moto doing?
Surely they know, but there isnt much they can do when the Cell div. pulls x100 more $ than the Canopy Div. Gino A. Villarini, Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.aeronetpr.com 787.273.4143 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 5:13 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: Was - [WISPA] service contract prices - What is moto doing? They know cause I've told them :-). There are issues in the 700 band too. EVERY filing has been against unlicensed. laters, Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services 42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: G.Villarini To: 'WISPA General List' Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 12:24 PM Subject: RE: Was - [WISPA] service contract prices - What is moto doing? The Cellular Sector is pushing for licensing the 3.65 band You got to understand that MOTO is huge organization not like other Manufacturers. And The Cellular Division is pushing for licensing the 3.65 band so they can sell more BTS to the Cell operators.AFAIK, the Canopy group has nothing to do with this since they are on another Division Sometimes your right hand doesnt know what the left is doing Not the case with smaller guys like Trango, which only serve a handful of markets Gino A. Villarini, Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.aeronetpr.com 787.273.4143 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dan Petermann Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 4:16 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: Was - [WISPA] service contract prices - What is moto doing? What are they doing at the FCC?? Can you point me to a few links or otherwise enlighten me? On Feb 10, 2006, at 1:07 PM, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: I know I work with EC. And I know people like Canopy. I know I'm only supposed to say nice things. But Motorola is STILL working hard at the FCC level to hamstring this industry. I'll not support them unless there are no other choices. I won't even use a moto cell phone at this point, I'm so discussed with what they've been doing at the FCC. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services 42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: G.Villarini To: 'WISPA General List' Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 11:19 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] service contract prices 1 suggestion, Last Mile Gear Canopy Advantage Omni Gino A. Villarini, Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.aeronetpr.com 787.273.4143 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 3:17 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] service contract prices Need coverage in 3 different directions. And trango ap's only come with 60* sectors. Plus, they'll likely put in some video surveillance and that will need lots of capacity so we're heading off any likely bw issues. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services 42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: G.Villarini To: 'WISPA General List' Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 11:05 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] service contract prices Why 3 APs ? Gino A. Villarini, Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.aeronetpr.com 787.273.4143 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 3:03 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] service contract prices Hiya Johnny, This is a casino. The security and reliability requirements rule out any 802.11 type gear. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services 42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: JohnnyO To: WISPA General List Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 10:42 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] service contract prices I would strongly suggest looking at Mikrotik for the following reasons. #1 - Pricing - very inexpensive to maintain and swap out equipment in the event of a failure #2 - You can provide them up to 36meg
Re: [WISPA] My Towers Need More CPU - suggestions?
Which fancy enclosure with a heater and external fan did you choose? How much was it? Are you happy with it?Thanks,-- Dylan OliverPrimaverity, LLC -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] My Towers Need More CPU - suggestions?
I'd like to see the NEMA boxes you are using. I have thought of putting an atx board on top of a grain leg but have not yet found a cost effective way to do it. Power supply is the main issue. running 100W of power up there is not easy or cheap 48V @ 2.1A or 12V @ 8.2A. At 48V, not too bad, but at 12V that would be a big cable to run Dylan Oliver wrote: Which fancy enclosure with a heater and external fan did you choose? How much was it? Are you happy with it? Thanks, -- Dylan Oliver Primaverity, LLC -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] BPSK QAM16 DSSS interference
Dustin, While I haven't done any current work with the 2 foot Gabriel professional series I've been hearing enough good stuff about it that I ordered one to play with and see if it worth deploying. So far I like the Gabriel antennas. However, I am starting to see a pattern where the various radios perform better on 5.3Ghz than on 5.8Ghz when using the Gabriel Dual Freq (5.3-5.8) antenna. (from a packet loss perspective not a RSSI perspective). I believe that this is totally coincidental, and a result that the 5.3G spectrum is VERY clean, and the 5.8Ghz spectrum is VERY noisy. However, how do I know that for sure? I can't just assume, that its the radios' fault or the noise floor. I have two sites using the Gabriels, both tested with Trango and Mikrotik. Next week, I am going to swap the antenna, with a PacWireless (5.8G only) 2 footer, just to confirm for sure, that the Gabriel (Dual Freq model) performs equivellently. It is a possibilty that the antenna feed is optimized for 5.3 and causing some issues at 5.8G. With Pack wireless they make seperate antennas for 5.8G and 5.3G, and if you mismatch them with the other Freq, you get a few percent packet loss, that can't be gotten rid of. I have no evidense, that the Gabriel is working anything but perfectly. But its worth proving since its a new product for me that I plan to use a lot more of. I'd be interested in what you find, and whether you find that it works optimally for 5.8Ghz. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] BPSK QAM16 DSSS interference
Tom, I currently have several Pac Wireless 5.8ghz 2ft dishes running at 5.3ghz with no packet loss. Granted, the RSSI is 1-2db higher than it should be, but they do work. Travis Microserv Tom DeReggi wrote: Dustin, While I haven't done any current work with the 2 foot Gabriel professional series I've been hearing enough good stuff about it that I ordered one to play with and see if it worth deploying. So far I like the Gabriel antennas. However, I am starting to see a pattern where the various radios perform better on 5.3Ghz than on 5.8Ghz when using the Gabriel Dual Freq (5.3-5.8) antenna. (from a packet loss perspective not a RSSI perspective). I believe that this is totally coincidental, and a result that the 5.3G spectrum is VERY clean, and the 5.8Ghz spectrum is VERY noisy. However, how do I know that for sure? I can't just assume, that its the radios' fault or the noise floor. I have two sites using the Gabriels, both tested with Trango and Mikrotik. Next week, I am going to swap the antenna, with a PacWireless (5.8G only) 2 footer, just to confirm for sure, that the Gabriel (Dual Freq model) performs equivellently. It is a possibilty that the antenna feed is optimized for 5.3 and causing some issues at 5.8G. With Pack wireless they make seperate antennas for 5.8G and 5.3G, and if you mismatch them with the other Freq, you get a few percent packet loss, that can't be gotten rid of. I have no evidense, that the Gabriel is working anything but perfectly. But its worth proving since its a new product for me that I plan to use a lot more of. I'd be interested in what you find, and whether you find that it works optimally for 5.8Ghz. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MikroTik 5.8GHz Radio cards and settings.
OOPs, I'm writing quicker than I'm thinking, and getting myself confused. I'm not using the Amp with the Range 2. The subscriber side had a Range2 (400watt). The AP side had a CM9 with Rflinx 250WAmp (802.11G model). Some weird things had happened, like I had an antenna and amp plugged on one of the ports, and not the other, and when I changed antennas inStar OS, I only got a db or two difference in signal strength. Swapped all the gear and caleshad same results. Changed channels, and problems went a way. It was one of those days that broke all laws of science and just didn't add up.We also tried changing ports on SU sideat stages during the tests, which is why I asked the question regarding the Range2s. Its was a site from hell. I started the job out with 13db radios, as itappeared to be a LOS installation, with some possible Freznel zone blockage. But unfortuneately they were pine trees. We got them working, but lots of reliabilty issues. We are actually converting some of it to 900Mhz next week, and swapping to a 180 deg Sector antenna at AP instead of the Omni. Its a farm with no one else around for 5-10 square miles. But therewas more noise than expected. The High power was needed to get past all the Almost-LOS issues with Trees.When we go back, we are swapping all the pigtails with another brand just for confirmation. Its just helpful to go back with known facts regarding what to expect from the Range cards, and make sure we use the optimal port. Tom DeReggiRapidDSL Wireless, IncIntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Blair Davis To: WISPA General List Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 9:49 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] MikroTik 5.8GHz Radio cards and settings. Tom,The first batch of SR5 cards had a problem with their mmxc port. Low or no output when selected. The u.fl port was said to be ok.If you don't mind, why would you use amps with a 400mW radio card? I'd expect you to be overloading the input on the amps and making all kinds of noiseTom DeReggi wrote: What exactly is the old mmcx problem? I had some original batch Range2's (or is that range 3s, the 2,4Ghz G ones)that were giving me sparatic performance at a site, used with RfLink Amps, and the mmcx port. Tom DeReggiRapidDSL Wireless, IncIntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Blair Davis To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 'WISPA General List' Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 3:04 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] MikroTik 5.8GHz Radio cards and settings. I was/am aware of the mmcx issue and all tests were done with the same u.fl pigtails on each end. When the radio cards were changed, the same u.fl pigtails were used. Only the radio cards were changed.They were the older SR5 cards with the mmcx problem. (proven by testing!!) The mmcx port was down 6db from the u.fl port.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What pigtails and connectors? Mmcx on the SR5 or u.fl? are these new SR5's or older sr'5s? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Blair Davis Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 2:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] MikroTik 5.8GHz Radio cards and settings. Hey all: I'm getting some odd results here with a PtP 5.8GHz link using MikroTik that I setup to test with. Let me describe the setup... The link is 7.9 miles with clear LoS and clear Frenel zone. Each end has a 27db grid with a 3ft LMR-400 jumper to the MikroTik radio. Using the link calculator at http://www.zytrax.com/tech/wireless/calc.htm I get a predicted rx of -60.8db at each end with CM9 radio cards (17db output). Using the SR5 cards, (400mW), I get a predicted rx of -51.8 On to the real world results (all reading taken from the MikroTik's winbox. I am using version 2.9.11 on RouterBoard 230's) With the CM9 cards, I get a measured rx of -62db, well within the margin of error. An interesting note here is that I must set the CM9's output power in the MikroTik at 30db to get these results.. I know that the MikroTik must be doing something odd with this setting, as the CM9 can not put out 30db. Reducing the setting drops the rx strenth by a like amount. This link is stable and will pass 30Mb/sec in UDP and 22Mb/sec in TCP mode With the SR5 cards, I get a measured rx of -66db, well outside the margin of error and 15db below the expected rx strength! An interesting note here is that I must set the SR5's output power in the MikroTik at 30db to get these results. I know that the MikroTik must be doing something odd with this setting, as the SR5 should not put out 30db. Reducing the setting drops the rx strength by a like amount. This link is stable and will pass 24Mb/sec in UDP and 16Mb/sec in TCP
Re: [WISPA] Flawed Spectrum Analysis (I think!)
I agree with your concern. Most likely the person doing the testing is the person doing the sale of the Redline? Tom DeReggiRapidDSL Wireless, IncIntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: JohnnyO To: WISPA General List Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 8:44 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Flawed Spectrum Analysis (I think!) I think what you thought was RG6 was actually RG59 - Redline is a pretty clean platform so I don't think too many issues will arise from the deployment of that platform in your area.JohnnyOOn Fri, 2006-02-10 at 07:31 -0600, Cliff Leboeuf wrote: Thanks for all of the feedback.For clarification, the LMR400 cable was 140 feet and was the only cable that connected the analyzer to the antenna.I am familiar with the IDU and ODU configuration of the Redline equipment.This test was to see what 5.8 RF was present. The customer plans to deploy a series of P2P and P2Mp radios in the same coverage area as two other towers that have 5.8 deployed.My climber was familiar with the other tower locations, and wanted to ‘prove’ other RF was in the same area, and that the Redline P2Mp has the potential to affect these other towers adversely. Though I have not seen their conclusion, I am not confident in their methods; and the fact that I believe they just want to install. Once they are functional, they are ‘outta here.’ Then, the customer will be left to mitigate any issues that could easily be avoided, or minimized, by using other frequencies. This is a public safety entity and should be using the 4.9Ghz frequency, but I think Redline has this project wrapped up and since they don’t make 4.9Ghz equipment, they are ‘forcing’ the 5.8Ghz and are resisting my ideas tooth and nail.Why create a potential for problems when you know it can be avoided…That the government though! J- Cliff -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.orgSubscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wirelessArchives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] service contract prices
Mac - got a How To for this ? JohnnyO On Fri, 2006-02-10 at 14:31 -0600, Mac Dearman wrote: Marlon, You can open up the Trango 5830AP case and there are already connectors in there. Just unplug the ones to the internal antenna and plug in the new MMCX to NFemale adapter, drill out the hole for the NFemale(or your choice) either in the side or through the plastic front. Its easy and very cost effective :-) - - - just don't over tighten the housing screws as they are self tapping and will pull all your threads out. Good Luck on your Casino deal!! Mac Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: I know I work with EC. And I know people like Canopy. I know I'm only supposed to say nice things. But Motorola is STILL working hard at the FCC level to hamstring this industry. I'll not support them unless there are no other choices. I won't even use a moto cell phone at this point, I'm so discussed with what they've been doing at the FCC. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless http://www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam http://www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - *From:* G.Villarini mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* 'WISPA General List' mailto:wireless@wispa.org *Sent:* Friday, February 10, 2006 11:19 AM *Subject:* RE: [WISPA] service contract prices 1 suggestion, Last Mile Gear Canopy Advantage Omni Gino A. Villarini, Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] www.aeronetpr.com http://www.aeronetpr.com 787.273.4143 *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] *On Behalf Of *Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 *Sent:* Friday, February 10, 2006 3:17 PM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] service contract prices Need coverage in 3 different directions. And trango ap's only come with 60* sectors. Plus, they'll likely put in some video surveillance and that will need lots of capacity so we're heading off any likely bw issues. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless http://www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam http://www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - *From:* G.Villarini mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* 'WISPA General List' mailto:wireless@wispa.org *Sent:* Friday, February 10, 2006 11:05 AM *Subject:* RE: [WISPA] service contract prices Why 3 APs ? Gino A. Villarini, Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] www.aeronetpr.com http://www.aeronetpr.com 787.273.4143 *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] *On Behalf Of *Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 *Sent:* Friday, February 10, 2006 3:03 PM *To:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] service contract prices Hiya Johnny, This is a casino. The security and reliability requirements rule out any 802.11 type gear. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless http://www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam http://www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - *From:* JohnnyO mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org *Sent:* Friday, February 10, 2006 10:42 AM *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] service contract prices I would strongly suggest looking at Mikrotik for the following reasons. #1 - Pricing - very inexpensive to
