Re: [WISPA] training

[W.D.McKinney]

I really would like to see a "simple wireless installation training manual". 
The local folks wnat $7K to produce one :-(

-Dee


Alaska Wireless Systems
1(907)240-2183 Cell
1(907)349-2226 Fax
1(907)349-4308 Office
www.akwireless.net


- Original Message -
From: Travis Johnson
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com, WISPA General List
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 18:26:18 -0900
Subject:
[WISPA] training


> Hi,
> 
> Does anyone have a simple "wireless installation" training manual 
> already put together? We are finally to the point we need to have 
> something for the new hires, but I want to see if anyone has something 
> they want to share?
> 
> Travis
> Microserv
> -- 
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RE: [WISPA] Strange network issues "crosspost"

[Todd Barber]

Mac,

We tried that but it didn't totally resolve the issue.  Chadd, I would guess
it was around 100.

Todd Barber
Skylink Broadband Internet
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
970-454-9499


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mac Dearman
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 8:09 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Strange network issues "crosspost"

telnet: 

arp -bcast off



Mac 



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Todd Barber
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 8:01 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Strange network issues "crosspost"

Chadd,

We experienced similar issues when our network was entirely bridged.  The
root of the problem turned out to be the ARP table in the Trangos we were
using as are primary BHs.

Once the number of clients behind the Trangos exceeded a certain limit the
ARP table gets corrupted.  Trango does not have a fix for this issue.

As a temporary fix you can set up a script to reset the ARP table in the
Trangos on a regular basis.  The command line for the 5800 and 5830 units is
"maclist reset".

We have moved to a mostly routed network which has greatly reduced the
number of MAC addresses seen by the Trangos.  This fixed the problem.   

Todd Barber
Skylink Broadband Internet
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
970-454-9499

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Chadd Thompson
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 4:00 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: [WISPA] Strange network issues "crosspost"

Sorry to cross post this guys but I am looking for suggestions and wasn't
sure if everyone is on both lists.


I have been having an intermittent problem the last few days. A few of my
AP's and CPE's will stop responding. These are a mixture of brands, Trango,
MT, Brilan, they are on different network segments, different frequencies. 

The strange thing that not all the radios on the segment will have problems
only some, and even more odd is that an AP can stop responding but you can
still access some of the CPE's associated with it and they will pass traffic
fine. In any case a reboot of the backhaul that feeds each individual
segment will bring them all back up again for a random amount of time. I
have checked the BH links when things start going haywire and can't seem to
find any issues, no oddball traffic, packets per second seem fine. Also my
ARP tables seem to be fine when this happens, but I haven't tried to flush
my ARP when I have the issue.

Everything is currently "and has been for 4 yrs" bridged and it is getting
to the point where I need to break down and start setting up routing at each
of my POPs. I had thought it may be a bridge loop, but if that was the case
I wouldn't think the segment would operate fine for a while after a Backhaul
reboot.

I am looking for suggestions of other things I may/should be checking and or
looking at.

Thanks,
Chadd


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Re: [WISPA] training

[Butch Evans]

On Tue, 19 Dec 2006, Travis Johnson wrote:

Does anyone have a simple "wireless installation" training manual 
already put together? We are finally to the point we need to have 
something for the new hires, but I want to see if anyone has 
something they want to share?


As you may know, I am working on several technical training classes, 
including one that covers "WISP Basics".  While the focus of this 
class is not exactly what you asked for, it is a good starting 
point.  However, If you'd like, I can put together a manual for you. 
While I'm at it, how many others would be interested in such a 
manual?  If I did this, it would most likely be a video that covers 
such topics as:

* Mounting techniques - rooftop and dss arm type mounts
* Antenna basics - aiming and testing link quality
* Weather proofing - we all know about this
* Cable runs - including basics on how to drill various
materials and where to drill (and not to drill).
Also, "drip loops"
* Grounding
* Termination of LMR and Ethernet cables
* Testing the final install

This is just off the top of my head, but the real question would be 
(for me), how many would be willing to pay for such a video...and 
what is it worth?



--
Butch Evans
Network Engineering and Security Consulting
573-276-2879
http://www.butchevans.com/
Mikrotik Certified Consultant
(http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html)
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RE: [WISPA] Fw: Happy Holidays from Redline Communications

[Brad Belton]

Wholly agree that there are many other religions than Christianity and
fortunately here in the great 'ol USA we have many freedoms including
freedom of religion.  However, without dispute the reason for the season is
Christmas.  The world stops during these times for no other reason than
Christmas.  Like it or not it really doesn't matter.  That-them-there is the
facts.

Several major "big-box" retailers found out the hard way last year when they
tried selling Holiday Trees instead of Christmas Trees or greeting with
Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas.  

With the greatest of respect Bob, give me a break it is indeed Christmas not
Holidays.

I only make church a couple times a year and even I get it.  

Ok, I'm outta here...too many Shiner Beers tonight...

Best,

Brad





-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bob Moldashel
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 8:12 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fw: Happy Holidays from Redline Communications

W.D.McKinney wrote:

>It's really to bad that good companies in the wireless business bow to a
few that seem to think we don't know why it's a season to celebrate? Let me
say wholeheartedly and unabashedly  Merry Christmas and Happy New Years
to everyone.
>
>Cheers,
>-Dee
>
>
>Alaska Wireless Systems
>1(907)240-2183 Cell
>1(907)349-2226 Fax
>1(907)349-4308 Office
>www.akwireless.net
>  
>


Ahh.It's also */hanukkah/* 
  
so its not unreasonable to say Happy Holidays.

I celebrate Christmas because I am Christian but there are also other 
holidays during this time of the year so "Happy Holidays" is not 
unreasonable

-- 
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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[WISPA] new S-1 from Clearwire

[Matt Liotta]

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1285551/89102006000416/v25599sv1.htm

From the filing...

"Subscribers have rapidly adopted our services as we have grown from 
1,000 wireless broadband subscribers as of September 30, 2004 to more 
than 188,000 subscribers as of November 30, 2006. We estimate that the 
average monthly increase in our subscriber penetration rate, calculated 
by dividing the number of new subscribers by the number of households 
covered by our network, ranged between 0.5% to 0.7% for each of the 
eleven months ended November 30, 2006. We believe our subscriber growth 
rates reflect the mass market appeal and robust customer demand for our 
services, even in the presence of highly competitive wireline broadband 
alternatives."


-Matt


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RE: [WISPA] FW: Notice That Public Release of FCC Form 477 Data Has BeenSought

[Dennis Burgess - 2K Wireless]

K answered my question!

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dennis Burgess - 2K Wireless
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 7:03 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: [WISPA] FW: Notice That Public Release of FCC Form 477 Data Has
BeenSought

Anyone else get this?

 

 

  _  

From: FCC 477 Contact [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 8:46 AM
To: FCC 477 Contact
Subject: Notice That Public Release of FCC Form 477 Data Has Been Sought

 

The attached Public Notice is being sent to you because you were the contact
person for a FCC Form 477 filing. If you filed Form 477 as a contractor,
consultant, or legal counsel for a client company, you may wish to forward
this information to your client. The Public Notice provides a contact for
further information. The Public Notice is also available online at

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-06-2534A1.pdf. 

 

 

 



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RE: [WISPA] Strange network issues "crosspost"

[Chadd Thompson]

Mac,

Is this a trango command? I don't remember there being an arp command in
the link10's

Thanks,
Chadd

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Mac Dearman
> Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 9:09 PM
> To: 'WISPA General List'
> Subject: RE: [WISPA] Strange network issues "crosspost"
>
>
> telnet:
>
> arp -bcast off
>
>
>
> Mac
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Todd Barber
> Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 8:01 PM
> To: 'WISPA General List'
> Subject: RE: [WISPA] Strange network issues "crosspost"
>
> Chadd,
>
> We experienced similar issues when our network was entirely bridged.  The
> root of the problem turned out to be the ARP table in the Trangos we were
> using as are primary BHs.
>
> Once the number of clients behind the Trangos exceeded a certain limit the
> ARP table gets corrupted.  Trango does not have a fix for this issue.
>
> As a temporary fix you can set up a script to reset the ARP table in the
> Trangos on a regular basis.  The command line for the 5800 and
> 5830 units is
> "maclist reset".
>
> We have moved to a mostly routed network which has greatly reduced the
> number of MAC addresses seen by the Trangos.  This fixed the problem.
>
> Todd Barber
> Skylink Broadband Internet
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 970-454-9499
>
>
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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Re: [WISPA] Form 477 Confidentiality Challenged in Court

[Marlon K. Schafer]

I'll be surprised if the info is released.  The data is all available 
already.  Just nothing specific to a company.  And specific company data 
won't do anyone any real good.


This has been going on for several months now if it's the same case.

laters,
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "Rick Harnish" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 8:37 AM
Subject: [WISPA] Form 477 Confidentiality Challenged in Court


It looks as though the confidentiality of Form 477 information is being
challenged in court.  Anyone with further insight that has comments, they
are appreciated.  Our office received this document via email today.



PUBLIC NOTICE

Federal Communications Commission

445 12th St., S.W.

Washington, D.C. 20554

News Media Information 202 / 418-0500

Fax-On-Demand 202 / 418-2830

TTY 202 / 418-2555

Internet: http://www.fcc.gov

ftp fcc gov

DA 06-2534

December 15, 2006

Public Notice To Service Providers Who Filed FCC Form 477s With The
Commission And Sought

Confidential Treatment Of The Information Submitted

This Public Notice notifies all filers who sought confidential treatment of
their Form 477

information that the public release of this information is being sought. The
following litigation is pending

in U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia: Center for Public
Integrity v. Federal

Communications Commission, Civil Action No. 06-1644 (RMC). Plaintiff
initiated this action under the

Freedom of Information Act (FOIA), 5 U.S.C. § 552, as amended, seeking
release of all FCC Form 477s

filed with the Commission. The Wireline Competition Bureau previously denied
plaintiff's FOIA request

for these records, pursuant to FOIA exemption 4, because it found that the
requested records contain

commercially sensitive, competitive information and that release would cause
harm to the entities that

submitted the requested information. The plaintiff has filed for de novo
review of its request by the U.S.

District Court. The Commission's brief in this proceeding is due to be filed
with the court on January 8,

2007.

For further information, contact Michael A. Krasnow, Office of General
Counsel, (202) 418-

7924.

- FCC -







Rick Harnish

President

OnlyInternet Broadband & Wireless, Inc.

260-827-2482

Founding Member of WISPA



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RE: [WISPA] 25 pr Outdoor cat5

[Mike Bushard, Jr]

I remember that from school


Mike Bushard, Jr
Wisper Wireless Solutions, LLC
320-256-WISP (9477)
320-256-9478 Fax
 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Marty Dougherty
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 5:23 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] 25 pr Outdoor cat5

Easy way to remember the color code is (this is really old days) 

Bell- Blue
Operators-Orange
Give-Green
Bad- Brown
Service- Slate

While- White
Running- Red
Backwards- Black
You- Yellow
Vomit- Violet

If you can remember that you can break down any cable- even the big ones
with thousands of pairs...
Marty



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Chad Halsted
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 4:37 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 25 pr Outdoor cat5

telecom 25 pair color code

tip
White
Red
Black
Yellow
Violet

ring
Blue
Orange
Green
Brown
Slate

so it would look like this...

w/bl - bl, w/o - o, w/g - g, w/br - br, w/sl - sl
r/bl - bl, r/o - o, r/g - g, r/br - br, r/sl -sl
bk/bl - bl, bk/o - o, bk/g -g, bk/br - br, bk/sl - sl
y/bl - bl, ..etc..etc
v/bl - bl, ..etc..etc

It's been a while since I have seen a 25 pair Cat5 cable, don't know
if the "slate" pair is in there or not, I know it is for 25 pair
telecom feeders, but those are usually Cat3 rated.  If not, then you
simply ignore that pair.

Anyhow, for larger count cables.  Each 25 pair group should be wrapped
with blue, orange, green, brown and slate colored "binder string".
The first 25 pair is blue, the next would be orange, then green, brown
and slate accordingly.

and then there are super groups... which is getting way off Topic. hehe

On 12/18/06, Ron Wallace <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Yes, I can confirm Scrivs point. I have a 300' cat5 25 Pr and it is
punched down on a 12 port RJ45 Block, standard Cat5e terminal. It has
worked well, thou I am not using today. No good reason, just wanted to
have fewer connectors.
> Ron Wallace
> Hahnron, Inc.
> 220 S. Jackson Dt.
> Addison, MI 49220
>
> Phone: (517)547-8410
> Mobile: (517)605-4542
> e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> >-Original Message-
> >From: John Scrivner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 02:08 AM
> >To: 'WISPA General List'
> >Subject: Re: [WISPA] 25 pr Outdoor cat5
> >
> >If you need 100 megabit Cat 5 performance then it is best to
terminate
> >on 110 blocks instead of 66 blocks. That is what I was always told in
> >the past. I have no proof other than what others told me. Can anyone
> >else confirm or deny?
> >Scriv
> >
> >
> >Brad Belton wrote:
> >
> >>Yep, standard 25pr 66 blocks mounted inside NEMA4 enclosures. Works
well.
> >>
> >>I've attached a snapshot.
> >>
> >>Best,
> >>
> >>
> >>Brad
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>-Original Message-
> >>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
> >>Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 3:29 PM
> >>To: wireless@wispa.org
> >>Subject: RE: RE: [WISPA] 25 pr Outdoor cat5
> >>
> >>Punch blocks, enclosures? What did you do for that?
> >>
> >>Brian
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Yep, works nicely. We've run several hubs with 25pr CAT5 outdoor
cable.
> >>>Gobs and gobs of goo inside...have a few hand rags ready!
> >>>
> >>>I believe the cable brand is Mohawk. Good stuff.
> >>>
> >>>Best,
> >>>
> >>>Brad
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>-Original Message-
> >>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> >>>Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher
> >>>Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 1:48 PM
> >>>To: Conversations over a new WISP Trade Organization
> >>>Subject: [WISPA] 25 pr Outdoor cat5
> >>>
> >>>Does anyone use, have thoughts about, or know where to get 25 pr
outdoor
> >>>cat5?
> >>>
> >>>I am curious if using it on a tower could save in future
deployments.
> >>>You'd have it punched in a block at the top and bottom
> >>>and would only have run jumpers for new radios.
> >>>
> >>>Brian
> >>>--
> >>>WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >>>
> >>>Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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> >>>
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> >>>
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> >>>
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> >>>
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> >>>
> >>>
>
>>>-
---
> >>>
> >>>No virus found in this incoming message.
> >>>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >>>Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.19/587 - Release Date:
12/14/2006
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >--
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> >
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[WISPA] training

[Travis Johnson]

Hi,

Does anyone have a simple "wireless installation" training manual 
already put together? We are finally to the point we need to have 
something for the new hires, but I want to see if anyone has something 
they want to share?


Travis
Microserv
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Re: [WISPA] ot, private chat

[Marlon K. Schafer]

Ahhh, thanks.

I'm NOT looking for anything like that.  The last thing in the world that 
I'd want to do to my customers is route their traffic through anyone that we 
don't know.


marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "Pete Davis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 4:36 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] ot, private chat


http://hamachi.cc has a an application with a private chat. That is a side 
feature in their product. The main app is a P2P VPN application that works 
actually very well. Everyone in your Hamachi group (up to 16 nodes in free 
version, 254 in the $40/yr version) can share files/printers and chat as 
if they were in the same physical LAN. A nice configuration-less VPN.


The Nat/Nat Transversal trick: The Hamachi company (now owned by 
logmein.com) has the 5.0.0.0/8 subnet and every Hamachi user tunnels in 
and gets a 5.x.x.x IP address. The Hamachi software handles the encryption 
and authentication, and only uses the 5.x.x.x subnet for VPN'ing.


Pete Davis
NoDial.net

Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:

Hi All,

A few years back, there was a program called Blab-it.  It was a private 
chat system.  I have a couple of corporate customers that are interested 
in a Yahoo or MSN Messenger type application but they want it isolated to 
their own network (including remote offices) and they want better 
security.


Anyone know of such a beast?  I could probably handle something that 
rides on my server, but a system that would ride on the customer's server 
is what they are mostly after.


thanks!
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam





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Re: [WISPA] ot, private chat

[Marlon K. Schafer]

I don't know what jabba is.

- Original Message - 
From: "Dylan Oliver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 8:58 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] ot, private chat



How about a Jabber server?

On 12/18/06, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:


Hi All,

A few years back, there was a program called Blab-it.  It was a private
chat
system.  I have a couple of corporate customers that are interested in a
Yahoo or MSN Messenger type application but they want it isolated to 
their

own network (including remote offices) and they want better security.

Anyone know of such a beast?  I could probably handle something that 
rides

on my server, but a system that would ride on the customer's server is
what
they are mostly after.

thanks!
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



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Primaverity, LLC
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RE: [WISPA] Strange network issues "crosspost"

[Mac Dearman]

telnet: 

arp -bcast off



Mac 



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Todd Barber
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 8:01 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Strange network issues "crosspost"

Chadd,

We experienced similar issues when our network was entirely bridged.  The
root of the problem turned out to be the ARP table in the Trangos we were
using as are primary BHs.

Once the number of clients behind the Trangos exceeded a certain limit the
ARP table gets corrupted.  Trango does not have a fix for this issue.

As a temporary fix you can set up a script to reset the ARP table in the
Trangos on a regular basis.  The command line for the 5800 and 5830 units is
"maclist reset".

We have moved to a mostly routed network which has greatly reduced the
number of MAC addresses seen by the Trangos.  This fixed the problem.   

Todd Barber
Skylink Broadband Internet
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
970-454-9499

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Chadd Thompson
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 4:00 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: [WISPA] Strange network issues "crosspost"

Sorry to cross post this guys but I am looking for suggestions and wasn't
sure if everyone is on both lists.


I have been having an intermittent problem the last few days. A few of my
AP's and CPE's will stop responding. These are a mixture of brands, Trango,
MT, Brilan, they are on different network segments, different frequencies. 

The strange thing that not all the radios on the segment will have problems
only some, and even more odd is that an AP can stop responding but you can
still access some of the CPE's associated with it and they will pass traffic
fine. In any case a reboot of the backhaul that feeds each individual
segment will bring them all back up again for a random amount of time. I
have checked the BH links when things start going haywire and can't seem to
find any issues, no oddball traffic, packets per second seem fine. Also my
ARP tables seem to be fine when this happens, but I haven't tried to flush
my ARP when I have the issue.

Everything is currently "and has been for 4 yrs" bridged and it is getting
to the point where I need to break down and start setting up routing at each
of my POPs. I had thought it may be a bridge loop, but if that was the case
I wouldn't think the segment would operate fine for a while after a Backhaul
reboot.

I am looking for suggestions of other things I may/should be checking and or
looking at.

Thanks,
Chadd


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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.25/593 - Release Date: 12/19/2006
1:17 PM



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RE: [WISPA] Strange network issues "crosspost"

[Chadd Thompson]

Sounds like this could be it.

The backhauls are Trango link 10's do you happen to remember what the ARP
limit was that you were having problems with?

Thanks,
Chadd

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Todd Barber
> Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 8:01 PM
> To: 'WISPA General List'
> Subject: RE: [WISPA] Strange network issues "crosspost"
>
>
> Chadd,
>
> We experienced similar issues when our network was entirely bridged.  The
> root of the problem turned out to be the ARP table in the Trangos we were
> using as are primary BHs.
>
> Once the number of clients behind the Trangos exceeded a certain limit the
> ARP table gets corrupted.  Trango does not have a fix for this issue.
>
> As a temporary fix you can set up a script to reset the ARP table in the
> Trangos on a regular basis.  The command line for the 5800 and
> 5830 units is
> "maclist reset".
>
> We have moved to a mostly routed network which has greatly reduced the
> number of MAC addresses seen by the Trangos.  This fixed the problem.
>
> Todd Barber
> Skylink Broadband Internet
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 970-454-9499
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Chadd Thompson
> Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 4:00 PM
> To: 'WISPA General List'
> Subject: [WISPA] Strange network issues "crosspost"
>
> Sorry to cross post this guys but I am looking for suggestions and wasn't
> sure if everyone is on both lists.
>
>
> I have been having an intermittent problem the last few days. A few of my
> AP's and CPE's will stop responding. These are a mixture of
> brands, Trango,
> MT, Brilan, they are on different network segments, different
> frequencies.
>
> The strange thing that not all the radios on the segment will
> have problems
> only some, and even more odd is that an AP can stop responding but you can
> still access some of the CPE's associated with it and they will
> pass traffic
> fine. In any case a reboot of the backhaul that feeds each individual
> segment will bring them all back up again for a random amount of time. I
> have checked the BH links when things start going haywire and
> can't seem to
> find any issues, no oddball traffic, packets per second seem fine. Also my
> ARP tables seem to be fine when this happens, but I haven't tried to flush
> my ARP when I have the issue.
>
> Everything is currently "and has been for 4 yrs" bridged and it is getting
> to the point where I need to break down and start setting up
> routing at each
> of my POPs. I had thought it may be a bridge loop, but if that
> was the case
> I wouldn't think the segment would operate fine for a while after
> a Backhaul
> reboot.
>
> I am looking for suggestions of other things I may/should be
> checking and or
> looking at.
>
> Thanks,
> Chadd
>
>
> --
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.25/593 - Release Date:
> 12/19/2006
> 1:17 PM
>
>
>
> --
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
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> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.24/592 - Release Date:
> 12/18/2006
>
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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Re: [WISPA] Fw: Happy Holidays from Redline Communications

[Bob Moldashel]

W.D.McKinney wrote:


It's really to bad that good companies in the wireless business bow to a few 
that seem to think we don't know why it's a season to celebrate? Let me say 
wholeheartedly and unabashedly  Merry Christmas and Happy New Years to 
everyone.

Cheers,
-Dee


Alaska Wireless Systems
1(907)240-2183 Cell
1(907)349-2226 Fax
1(907)349-4308 Office
www.akwireless.net
 




Ahh.It's also */hanukkah/* 
  
so its not unreasonable to say Happy Holidays.


I celebrate Christmas because I am Christian but there are also other 
holidays during this time of the year so "Happy Holidays" is not 
unreasonable


--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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RE: [WISPA] Strange network issues "crosspost"

[Todd Barber]

Chadd,

We experienced similar issues when our network was entirely bridged.  The
root of the problem turned out to be the ARP table in the Trangos we were
using as are primary BHs.

Once the number of clients behind the Trangos exceeded a certain limit the
ARP table gets corrupted.  Trango does not have a fix for this issue.

As a temporary fix you can set up a script to reset the ARP table in the
Trangos on a regular basis.  The command line for the 5800 and 5830 units is
"maclist reset".

We have moved to a mostly routed network which has greatly reduced the
number of MAC addresses seen by the Trangos.  This fixed the problem.   

Todd Barber
Skylink Broadband Internet
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
970-454-9499

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Chadd Thompson
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 4:00 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: [WISPA] Strange network issues "crosspost"

Sorry to cross post this guys but I am looking for suggestions and wasn't
sure if everyone is on both lists.


I have been having an intermittent problem the last few days. A few of my
AP's and CPE's will stop responding. These are a mixture of brands, Trango,
MT, Brilan, they are on different network segments, different frequencies. 

The strange thing that not all the radios on the segment will have problems
only some, and even more odd is that an AP can stop responding but you can
still access some of the CPE's associated with it and they will pass traffic
fine. In any case a reboot of the backhaul that feeds each individual
segment will bring them all back up again for a random amount of time. I
have checked the BH links when things start going haywire and can't seem to
find any issues, no oddball traffic, packets per second seem fine. Also my
ARP tables seem to be fine when this happens, but I haven't tried to flush
my ARP when I have the issue.

Everything is currently "and has been for 4 yrs" bridged and it is getting
to the point where I need to break down and start setting up routing at each
of my POPs. I had thought it may be a bridge loop, but if that was the case
I wouldn't think the segment would operate fine for a while after a Backhaul
reboot.

I am looking for suggestions of other things I may/should be checking and or
looking at.

Thanks,
Chadd


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-- 
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.25/593 - Release Date: 12/19/2006
1:17 PM



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Re: [WISPA] FW: Notice That Public Release of FCC Form 477 Data Has Been Sought

[Bob Moldashel]

No Comment..  :-)

It was just a matter of time

-B-




Rick Smith wrote:


nope :)  Guess why.  Right.  No one's getting my info from that data.
 




--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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[WISPA] Fw: Happy Holidays from Redline Communications

[W.D.McKinney]

It's really to bad that good companies in the wireless business bow to a few 
that seem to think we don't know why it's a season to celebrate? Let me say 
wholeheartedly and unabashedly  Merry Christmas and Happy New Years to 
everyone.

Cheers,
-Dee


Alaska Wireless Systems
1(907)240-2183 Cell
1(907)349-2226 Fax
1(907)349-4308 Office
www.akwireless.net


- Original Message -
From: Redline Communications
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent:
Tue, 19 Dec 2006 11:27:26 -0900
Subject: Happy Holidays from Redline
Communications


> Happy Holidays
> 
> ~
> 
> Dear Dee,
> 
> Redline Communications All of us at Redline Communications wish you...
> 
> every happiness this Holiday Season and prosperity in 
> the New Year.
> 
> 
> 
> -
>  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  http://www.redlinecommunications.com
> -
> 
> 
> This email was sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED],
> by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Update Profile/Email Address
> http://ui.constantcontact.com/d.jsp?p=oo&m=1101225795266&ea=dee%40akwireless.net&se=5670&t=1101489730650&lang=en&reason=F
> 
> Instant removal with SafeUnsubscribe(TM)
> http://ui.constantcontact.com/d.jsp?p=un&m=1101225795266&ea=dee%40akwireless.net&se=5670&t=1101489730650&lang=en&reason=F
> 
> Privacy Policy:
> http://ui.constantcontact.com/roving/CCPrivacyPolicy.jsp
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Powered by
> Constant Contact(R)
> www.constantcontact.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Redline Communications | 302 Town Centre Blvd | Markham | Ontario | L3R 0E8
> | Canada
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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RE: [WISPA] FW: Notice That Public Release of FCC Form 477 Data Has Been Sought

[Rick Smith]

nope :)  Guess why.  Right.  No one's getting my info from that data.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dennis Burgess - 2K Wireless
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 8:03 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: [WISPA] FW: Notice That Public Release of FCC Form 477 Data Has
Been Sought

Anyone else get this?

 

 

  _  

From: FCC 477 Contact [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 8:46 AM
To: FCC 477 Contact
Subject: Notice That Public Release of FCC Form 477 Data Has Been Sought

 

The attached Public Notice is being sent to you because you were the contact
person for a FCC Form 477 filing. If you filed Form 477 as a contractor,
consultant, or legal counsel for a client company, you may wish to forward
this information to your client. The Public Notice provides a contact for
further information. The Public Notice is also available online at

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-06-2534A1.pdf. 

 

 

 


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[WISPA] FW: Notice That Public Release of FCC Form 477 Data Has Been Sought

[Dennis Burgess - 2K Wireless]

Anyone else get this?

 

 

  _  

From: FCC 477 Contact [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 8:46 AM
To: FCC 477 Contact
Subject: Notice That Public Release of FCC Form 477 Data Has Been Sought

 

The attached Public Notice is being sent to you because you were the contact
person for a FCC Form 477 filing. If you filed Form 477 as a contractor,
consultant, or legal counsel for a client company, you may wish to forward
this information to your client. The Public Notice provides a contact for
further information. The Public Notice is also available online at

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-06-2534A1.pdf. 

 

 

 

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RE: [WISPA] 25 pr Outdoor cat5

[Marty Dougherty]

Easy way to remember the color code is (this is really old days) 

Bell- Blue
Operators-Orange
Give-Green
Bad- Brown
Service- Slate

While- White
Running- Red
Backwards- Black
You- Yellow
Vomit- Violet

If you can remember that you can break down any cable- even the big ones
with thousands of pairs...
Marty



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Chad Halsted
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 4:37 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 25 pr Outdoor cat5

telecom 25 pair color code

tip
White
Red
Black
Yellow
Violet

ring
Blue
Orange
Green
Brown
Slate

so it would look like this...

w/bl - bl, w/o - o, w/g - g, w/br - br, w/sl - sl
r/bl - bl, r/o - o, r/g - g, r/br - br, r/sl -sl
bk/bl - bl, bk/o - o, bk/g -g, bk/br - br, bk/sl - sl
y/bl - bl, ..etc..etc
v/bl - bl, ..etc..etc

It's been a while since I have seen a 25 pair Cat5 cable, don't know
if the "slate" pair is in there or not, I know it is for 25 pair
telecom feeders, but those are usually Cat3 rated.  If not, then you
simply ignore that pair.

Anyhow, for larger count cables.  Each 25 pair group should be wrapped
with blue, orange, green, brown and slate colored "binder string".
The first 25 pair is blue, the next would be orange, then green, brown
and slate accordingly.

and then there are super groups... which is getting way off Topic. hehe

On 12/18/06, Ron Wallace <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Yes, I can confirm Scrivs point. I have a 300' cat5 25 Pr and it is
punched down on a 12 port RJ45 Block, standard Cat5e terminal. It has
worked well, thou I am not using today. No good reason, just wanted to
have fewer connectors.
> Ron Wallace
> Hahnron, Inc.
> 220 S. Jackson Dt.
> Addison, MI 49220
>
> Phone: (517)547-8410
> Mobile: (517)605-4542
> e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> >-Original Message-
> >From: John Scrivner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 02:08 AM
> >To: 'WISPA General List'
> >Subject: Re: [WISPA] 25 pr Outdoor cat5
> >
> >If you need 100 megabit Cat 5 performance then it is best to
terminate
> >on 110 blocks instead of 66 blocks. That is what I was always told in
> >the past. I have no proof other than what others told me. Can anyone
> >else confirm or deny?
> >Scriv
> >
> >
> >Brad Belton wrote:
> >
> >>Yep, standard 25pr 66 blocks mounted inside NEMA4 enclosures. Works
well.
> >>
> >>I've attached a snapshot.
> >>
> >>Best,
> >>
> >>
> >>Brad
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>-Original Message-
> >>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
> >>Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 3:29 PM
> >>To: wireless@wispa.org
> >>Subject: RE: RE: [WISPA] 25 pr Outdoor cat5
> >>
> >>Punch blocks, enclosures? What did you do for that?
> >>
> >>Brian
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Yep, works nicely. We've run several hubs with 25pr CAT5 outdoor
cable.
> >>>Gobs and gobs of goo inside...have a few hand rags ready!
> >>>
> >>>I believe the cable brand is Mohawk. Good stuff.
> >>>
> >>>Best,
> >>>
> >>>Brad
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>-Original Message-
> >>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> >>>Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher
> >>>Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 1:48 PM
> >>>To: Conversations over a new WISP Trade Organization
> >>>Subject: [WISPA] 25 pr Outdoor cat5
> >>>
> >>>Does anyone use, have thoughts about, or know where to get 25 pr
outdoor
> >>>cat5?
> >>>
> >>>I am curious if using it on a tower could save in future
deployments.
> >>>You'd have it punched in a block at the top and bottom
> >>>and would only have run jumpers for new radios.
> >>>
> >>>Brian
> >>>--
> >>>WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >>>
> >>>Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> >>>http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
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> >>>
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> >>>
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> >>>
> >>>Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >>>
> >>>
>
>>>-
---
> >>>
> >>>No virus found in this incoming message.
> >>>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >>>Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.19/587 - Release Date:
12/14/2006
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >--
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> >
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>


-- 
Chad Halsted
The Computer Works
Conway, AR
www.tcworks.net
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[WISPA] Strange network issues "crosspost"

[Chadd Thompson]

Sorry to cross post this guys but I am looking for suggestions and wasn't
sure if everyone is on both lists.


I have been having an intermittent problem the last few days. A few of my
AP's and CPE's will stop responding. These are a mixture of brands, Trango,
MT, Brilan, they are on different network segments, different frequencies. 

The strange thing that not all the radios on the segment will have problems
only some, and even more odd is that an AP can stop responding but you can
still access some of the CPE's associated with it and they will pass traffic
fine. In any case a reboot of the backhaul that feeds each individual
segment will bring them all back up again for a random amount of time. I
have checked the BH links when things start going haywire and can't seem to
find any issues, no oddball traffic, packets per second seem fine. Also my
ARP tables seem to be fine when this happens, but I haven't tried to flush
my ARP when I have the issue.

Everything is currently "and has been for 4 yrs" bridged and it is getting
to the point where I need to break down and start setting up routing at each
of my POPs. I had thought it may be a bridge loop, but if that was the case
I wouldn't think the segment would operate fine for a while after a Backhaul
reboot.

I am looking for suggestions of other things I may/should be checking and or
looking at.

Thanks,
Chadd


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RE: [WISPA] Building WARboard radios

[Rick Smith]

I figure about 15 minutes for an RB112 / mikrotik / SR5 and SR2 cards
w/cables, exterior cables, and antenna hookup / testing.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 1:52 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Building WARboard radios

On average, how long does it take, to build a WAR/rootenna radio system,
start to finish.
Or I should say, how much time should the manager allocate for the process
to be complete by their techs.
Lets define some common variables
Say the tech is building 5 at a time, of the same configuration.
Assume that its mounting equipment that does not come as a complete kit,
meaning the follow ing variable could occurs
Need to find the correct standoffs.
Net to cut sheet metal and drill holes for backplane.
Need to power up and teset radio.
Boards are WAR board preloaded with Firmware.

PS. The WAR boards have narrower diameter mounting hole, and the typical
coarse thread gold PC stand-offs are to wide and thread into the hole in
appropriately.
Any one have a source for the fine thread narrower diameter standoffs and
nuts?

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband 

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RE: [WISPA] Form 477 Confidentiality Challenged in Court

[Mike Bushard, Jr]

The boss got one toady too.

Mike Bushard, Jr
Wisper Wireless Solutions, LLC
320-256-WISP (9477)
320-256-9478 Fax
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jory Privett
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 12:11 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Form 477 Confidentiality Challenged in Court

I got one also

Jory Privett
WCCS

- Original Message - 
From: "Rick Harnish" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 10:37 AM
Subject: [WISPA] Form 477 Confidentiality Challenged in Court


It looks as though the confidentiality of Form 477 information is being
challenged in court.  Anyone with further insight that has comments, they
are appreciated.  Our office received this document via email today.



PUBLIC NOTICE

Federal Communications Commission

445 12th St., S.W.

Washington, D.C. 20554

News Media Information 202 / 418-0500

Fax-On-Demand 202 / 418-2830

TTY 202 / 418-2555

Internet: http://www.fcc.gov

ftp fcc gov

DA 06-2534

December 15, 2006

Public Notice To Service Providers Who Filed FCC Form 477s With The
Commission And Sought

Confidential Treatment Of The Information Submitted

This Public Notice notifies all filers who sought confidential treatment of
their Form 477

information that the public release of this information is being sought. The
following litigation is pending

in U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia: Center for Public
Integrity v. Federal

Communications Commission, Civil Action No. 06-1644 (RMC). Plaintiff
initiated this action under the

Freedom of Information Act (FOIA), 5 U.S.C. § 552, as amended, seeking
release of all FCC Form 477s

filed with the Commission. The Wireline Competition Bureau previously denied
plaintiff's FOIA request

for these records, pursuant to FOIA exemption 4, because it found that the
requested records contain

commercially sensitive, competitive information and that release would cause
harm to the entities that

submitted the requested information. The plaintiff has filed for de novo
review of its request by the U.S.

District Court. The Commission's brief in this proceeding is due to be filed
with the court on January 8,

2007.

For further information, contact Michael A. Krasnow, Office of General
Counsel, (202) 418-

7924.

- FCC -







Rick Harnish

President

OnlyInternet Broadband & Wireless, Inc.

260-827-2482

Founding Member of WISPA



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Re: [WISPA] building out

[Peter R.]

Dylan Oliver wrote:


Hi Charles,

Any tips on learning to sell? What's helped you the most?


Profile your best clients.
Pick out who you want your clients to be.
Research them.
Be in front of them.
Sell them.

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Re: [WISPA] Form 477 Confidentiality Challenged in Court

[Jory Privett]

I got one also

Jory Privett
WCCS

- Original Message - 
From: "Rick Harnish" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 10:37 AM
Subject: [WISPA] Form 477 Confidentiality Challenged in Court


It looks as though the confidentiality of Form 477 information is being
challenged in court.  Anyone with further insight that has comments, they
are appreciated.  Our office received this document via email today.



PUBLIC NOTICE

Federal Communications Commission

445 12th St., S.W.

Washington, D.C. 20554

News Media Information 202 / 418-0500

Fax-On-Demand 202 / 418-2830

TTY 202 / 418-2555

Internet: http://www.fcc.gov

ftp fcc gov

DA 06-2534

December 15, 2006

Public Notice To Service Providers Who Filed FCC Form 477s With The
Commission And Sought

Confidential Treatment Of The Information Submitted

This Public Notice notifies all filers who sought confidential treatment of
their Form 477

information that the public release of this information is being sought. The
following litigation is pending

in U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia: Center for Public
Integrity v. Federal

Communications Commission, Civil Action No. 06-1644 (RMC). Plaintiff
initiated this action under the

Freedom of Information Act (FOIA), 5 U.S.C. § 552, as amended, seeking
release of all FCC Form 477s

filed with the Commission. The Wireline Competition Bureau previously denied
plaintiff's FOIA request

for these records, pursuant to FOIA exemption 4, because it found that the
requested records contain

commercially sensitive, competitive information and that release would cause
harm to the entities that

submitted the requested information. The plaintiff has filed for de novo
review of its request by the U.S.

District Court. The Commission's brief in this proceeding is due to be filed
with the court on January 8,

2007.

For further information, contact Michael A. Krasnow, Office of General
Counsel, (202) 418-

7924.

- FCC -







Rick Harnish

President

OnlyInternet Broadband & Wireless, Inc.

260-827-2482

Founding Member of WISPA



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Re: [WISPA] building out

[Peter R.]

My best tip:
Go to Amazon.com or BN.com and search for "Jeffrey Gitomer"
Pick either the Sales Bible, the Little Red Book of Sales Answers, or 
his DVD, How to Not Suck at Sales.

Best sales trainer in the business.

Another book would be Idiot's Guide to Cold Calling by Keith Rosen  (not 
all about cold calling but about all aspects of selling).


Take training at Sandlers Sales or with me or with a business coach like 
Keith Rosen.


Regards,

Peter Radizeski  
RAD-INFO, Inc.

813.963.5884


Dylan Oliver wrote:


Hi Charles,

Any tips on learning to sell? What's helped you the most?

On 12/19/06, Charles Wu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



The problem with the philosophy of "building out" is that you never make
any
money...

Don't just "take orders" -- learn to actually sell

-Charles






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Re: [WISPA] Want a portable tower ?

[Dylan Oliver]

Pictures don't pass to the list so please post a link or give the model
number.

On 12/19/06, Rick Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


I've got two of these, exactly the same.  They're really stable.  I've
never
measured them, but they say they go about 20' into the air.  I am 6' and
this one's about 2x over my head.  I'd say around 15' or so, and there's
still a lot to crank up on it.

Got bored the other day, so I raised some Christmas lights :)

They cost about $1k each, and about $250 to ship together to me from
Texas,
about 2 yrs ago.

We never used 'em, as I never had the time / cash to get together a
trailer
to mount 'em to.

Name me a price offlist, and I'll make a deal.  They're both in perfect
working condition.

R




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Dylan Oliver
Primaverity, LLC
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Re: [WISPA] Form 477 Confidentiality Challenged in Court

[Peter R.]

The Center for Public Integrity is suing under FOIA (Freedom of 
Information Act) for access to the 477's because they do not believe 
that the broadband data that the FCC reports is true and they want to 
add that raw data to their media report at 
http://www.publicintegrity.org/telecom.


www.broadbandwirelessreports.com/pressreleases/files/Complaint*FCC*.pdf

- Peter
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[WISPA] Want a portable tower ?

[Rick Smith]

I've got two of these, exactly the same.  They're really stable.  I've never
measured them, but they say they go about 20' into the air.  I am 6' and
this one's about 2x over my head.  I'd say around 15' or so, and there's
still a lot to crank up on it.

Got bored the other day, so I raised some Christmas lights :)

They cost about $1k each, and about $250 to ship together to me from Texas,
about 2 yrs ago.

We never used 'em, as I never had the time / cash to get together a trailer
to mount 'em to.

Name me a price offlist, and I'll make a deal.  They're both in perfect
working condition.

R


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Re: [WISPA] 25 pr Outdoor cat5

[Chad Halsted]

telecom 25 pair color code

tip
White
Red
Black
Yellow
Violet

ring
Blue
Orange
Green
Brown
Slate

so it would look like this...

w/bl - bl, w/o - o, w/g - g, w/br - br, w/sl - sl
r/bl - bl, r/o - o, r/g - g, r/br - br, r/sl -sl
bk/bl - bl, bk/o - o, bk/g -g, bk/br - br, bk/sl - sl
y/bl - bl, ..etc..etc
v/bl - bl, ..etc..etc

It's been a while since I have seen a 25 pair Cat5 cable, don't know
if the "slate" pair is in there or not, I know it is for 25 pair
telecom feeders, but those are usually Cat3 rated.  If not, then you
simply ignore that pair.

Anyhow, for larger count cables.  Each 25 pair group should be wrapped
with blue, orange, green, brown and slate colored "binder string".
The first 25 pair is blue, the next would be orange, then green, brown
and slate accordingly.

and then there are super groups... which is getting way off Topic. hehe

On 12/18/06, Ron Wallace <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Yes, I can confirm Scrivs point. I have a 300' cat5 25 Pr and it is punched 
down on a 12 port RJ45 Block, standard Cat5e terminal. It has worked well, thou 
I am not using today. No good reason, just wanted to have fewer connectors.
Ron Wallace
Hahnron, Inc.
220 S. Jackson Dt.
Addison, MI 49220

Phone: (517)547-8410
Mobile: (517)605-4542
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

>-Original Message-
>From: John Scrivner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 02:08 AM
>To: 'WISPA General List'
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] 25 pr Outdoor cat5
>
>If you need 100 megabit Cat 5 performance then it is best to terminate
>on 110 blocks instead of 66 blocks. That is what I was always told in
>the past. I have no proof other than what others told me. Can anyone
>else confirm or deny?
>Scriv
>
>
>Brad Belton wrote:
>
>>Yep, standard 25pr 66 blocks mounted inside NEMA4 enclosures. Works well.
>>
>>I've attached a snapshot.
>>
>>Best,
>>
>>
>>Brad
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>>Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 3:29 PM
>>To: wireless@wispa.org
>>Subject: RE: RE: [WISPA] 25 pr Outdoor cat5
>>
>>Punch blocks, enclosures? What did you do for that?
>>
>>Brian
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Yep, works nicely. We've run several hubs with 25pr CAT5 outdoor cable.
>>>Gobs and gobs of goo inside...have a few hand rags ready!
>>>
>>>I believe the cable brand is Mohawk. Good stuff.
>>>
>>>Best,
>>>
>>>Brad
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>-Original Message-
>>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>>>Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher
>>>Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 1:48 PM
>>>To: Conversations over a new WISP Trade Organization
>>>Subject: [WISPA] 25 pr Outdoor cat5
>>>
>>>Does anyone use, have thoughts about, or know where to get 25 pr outdoor
>>>cat5?
>>>
>>>I am curious if using it on a tower could save in future deployments.
>>>You'd have it punched in a block at the top and bottom
>>>and would only have run jumpers for new radios.
>>>
>>>Brian
>>>--
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>>Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.19/587 - Release Date: 12/14/2006
>>>
>>>
>>>
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Chad Halsted
The Computer Works
Conway, AR
www.tcworks.net
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Re: [WISPA] building out

[Dylan Oliver]

Hi Charles,

Any tips on learning to sell? What's helped you the most?

On 12/19/06, Charles Wu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


The problem with the philosophy of "building out" is that you never make
any
money...

Don't just "take orders" -- learn to actually sell

-Charles



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Primaverity, LLC
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RE: [WISPA] Form 477 Confidentiality Challenged in Court

[Forbes Mercy]

I remember once when a big corporation, to remain nameless, offered to buy me 
for a nice chunk of change then after we signed the NDA and they looked at my 
numbers they never called me or returned our calls again.  Mind you are the 
largest ISP in my town so it wasn't for lack of numbers.  They simply wanted to 
know how much business was in my town so they could justify whether they would 
come here and take us out.  The Form 477 is just another way for corporations 
to see how strong your market is so they can have you essentially research for 
them the feasibility for them to come spend three million (just a vague 
reference not a real number - you'll see if you read the rant) to run you out 
of business.

I'm done on the form 477 comment  but in a "tell us how you really feel" 
rambling (as Marlon would say) here is what I think of our competition:  
The new corporate motto is, 'Why buy an existing customer base for a 
million when we can come to their market and spend three million in advertising 
or free/under cost services to force them out.'  It's not naievety by the 
government either they know that corporations are basically greedy and corrupt 
but they donate well to political figures so if they have to do anything they 
can to please their stockholders more power to them.   Letters to the FTC, or 
Justice department asking for investigations of these many unethical acts are 
all unanswered during a Republican Adminstration. We're all old enough to 
remember when Republicans were the friend of small business, doesn't seem that 
long ago.   Oh sure they have small business loans out there but now you have 
to hire their buddies as Consultants for 1/4 of the loan value in order to fill 
out the overly difficult forms.   Government is just as unethical so how are 
they going to set the example for American corporations.

Service or community responsibilty is a luxury from them not like us who use it 
as our foundations.   That is why those two traits are the only thing that keep 
small business alive for those few customers who want to pay less at the cost 
of being on hold for 1/2 hour for service they don't get anyway.   Look at 
Charter Cable, Paul Allen needed a write-off for his huge profits on Microsft, 
got it by writing off investors losses as his own so he didn't have to acutally 
spend that money!  Or Clearwire which is Craig McCaws write-off dupped Intel 
and Microsoft into bailing his failing venture out.   

Neither give a damn about their customers other then they pay their bill so the 
stockholders don't sue them for making their stock (in Charter's case) go from 
$30 to a buck or so.  I can't believe I'm admitting it but I think Bill Gates 
is much more of a 'True American' then either of those other scum I mentioned.  
 At least he uses his write-off for good.   Even if Windows is a crappy 
program, it did bring the world into the computer age so good for him which 
made them customers of ours, well until Allen or McCaw steals them to the tune 
of another billion dollar or more loss.  

Forbes Mercy

President - Washington Broadband, Inc.

---

I'm glad this is being taken to court. One of the reasons many WISPs don't
file still (even though legally required to), is because they are afraid
that the information will be shared with someone that will result in a
negative effect, whether its the tax collector or competitors.  Proving that
this information can or can not be kept confidential will take a load off
the mind of parties that are obligated to file.  Hopefully, the FCC will be
victorious and not need to disclose the information.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message -
From: "Rick Harnish" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 11:37 AM
Subject: [WISPA] Form 477 Confidentiality Challenged in Court


It looks as though the confidentiality of Form 477 information is being
challenged in court.  Anyone with further insight that has comments, they
are appreciated.  Our office received this document via email today.



PUBLIC NOTICE

Federal Communications Commission

445 12th St., S.W.

Washington, D.C. 20554

News Media Information 202 / 418-0500

Fax-On-Demand 202 / 418-2830

TTY 202 / 418-2555

Internet: http://www.fcc.gov

ftp fcc gov

DA 06-2534

December 15, 2006

Public Notice To Service Providers Who Filed FCC Form 477s With The
Commission And Sought

Confidential Treatment Of The Information Submitted

This Public Notice notifies all filers who sought confidential treatment of
their Form 477

information that the public release of this information is being sought. The
following litigation is pending

in U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia: Center for Public
Integrity v. Federal

Communications Commission, Civil Action No. 06-1644 (RMC). Plaintiff
initiated this ac

RE: [WISPA] Form 477 Confidentiality Challenged in Court

[Mac Dearman]

I hate to say it, but if the info contained in the Form 477 is not held in
confidence - like it is supposed to be, then I am going to sound like so
many others by saying that our Government can not be trusted. I will choose
to refrain from any further comments other than to say I hope that our
following the proper procedures and guidelines don't come back to bite all
us in the arse - - - as so many prophesied that chose NOT to fill out the
form 477.

Mac 




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Rick Harnish
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 1:07 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Form 477 Confidentiality Challenged in Court

That’s a good view Tom.  Until a decision is made one way or another, we
probably shouldn't jump to conclusions.  However, we should keep a keen eye
for a comment period concerning this issue.  

Rick Harnish
President
OnlyInternet Broadband & Wireless, Inc.
260-827-2482
Founding Member of WISPA

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 1:33 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Form 477 Confidentiality Challenged in Court

I'm glad this is being taken to court. One of the reasons many WISPs don't 
file still (even though legally required to), is because they are afraid 
that the information will be shared with someone that will result in a 
negative effect, whether its the tax collector or competitors.  Proving that

this information can or can not be kept confidential will take a load off 
the mind of parties that are obligated to file.  Hopefully, the FCC will be 
victorious and not need to disclose the information.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Rick Harnish" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 11:37 AM
Subject: [WISPA] Form 477 Confidentiality Challenged in Court


It looks as though the confidentiality of Form 477 information is being
challenged in court.  Anyone with further insight that has comments, they
are appreciated.  Our office received this document via email today.



PUBLIC NOTICE

Federal Communications Commission

445 12th St., S.W.

Washington, D.C. 20554

News Media Information 202 / 418-0500

Fax-On-Demand 202 / 418-2830

TTY 202 / 418-2555

Internet: http://www.fcc.gov

ftp fcc gov

DA 06-2534

December 15, 2006

Public Notice To Service Providers Who Filed FCC Form 477s With The
Commission And Sought

Confidential Treatment Of The Information Submitted

This Public Notice notifies all filers who sought confidential treatment of
their Form 477

information that the public release of this information is being sought. The
following litigation is pending

in U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia: Center for Public
Integrity v. Federal

Communications Commission, Civil Action No. 06-1644 (RMC). Plaintiff
initiated this action under the

Freedom of Information Act (FOIA), 5 U.S.C. § 552, as amended, seeking
release of all FCC Form 477s

filed with the Commission. The Wireline Competition Bureau previously denied
plaintiff's FOIA request

for these records, pursuant to FOIA exemption 4, because it found that the
requested records contain

commercially sensitive, competitive information and that release would cause
harm to the entities that

submitted the requested information. The plaintiff has filed for de novo
review of its request by the U.S.

District Court. The Commission's brief in this proceeding is due to be filed
with the court on January 8,

2007.

For further information, contact Michael A. Krasnow, Office of General
Counsel, (202) 418-

7924.

- FCC -







Rick Harnish

President

OnlyInternet Broadband & Wireless, Inc.

260-827-2482

Founding Member of WISPA



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Re: [WISPA] salary

[Frank Muto]

Thought I would throw this out about the GAO's report on company formations. 
http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d06376.pdf


This may or not be relevant to the topic at hand, but may be parallel 
information to be aware of.


Cliff note summary from the report.

Why the study:
Companies form the basis of most commercial and entrepreneurial activities 
in market-based economies; however, "shell" companies, which have no 
operations, can be used for illicit purposes such as laundering money. Some 
states have been criticized for requiring minimal ownership information to 
form a U.S. company, raising concerns about the ease with which companies 
may be used for illicit purposes. In this report, GAO describes (1) the 
kinds of information each of the 50 states and the District of Columbia and 
third party agents collect on companies, (2) law enforcement concerns about 
the use of companies to hide illicit activity and how company information 
from states and agents helps or hinders investigations, and (3) implications 
of requiring states or agents to collect company ownership information.


What the GAO found:
Most states do not require ownership information at the time a company is 
formed, and while most states require corporations and limited liability 
companies (LLC) to file annual or biennial reports, few states require 
ownership information on these reports. With respect to the formation of 
LLCs, four states require some information on members, who are owners of the 
LLC. Some states require companies to list the names and addresses of 
directors, officers or managers on filings, but these persons may not own 
the company. Nearly all states screen company filings for statutorily 
required information, but none verify the identities of company officials. 
Third-party agents may submit formation documents to the state on a company's 
behalf, usually collecting only billing and statutorily required information 
for formations. These agents generally do not collect any information on 
owners of the companies they represent, and instances where agents told us 
they verified some information were rare.




Frank Muto
President/CEO
FSM Marketing Group, Inc








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Re: [WISPA] Building WARboard radios

[George Rogato]

Funny yu should ask, but my guy just finished building 4 rootennas 
repeaters with the extra n female bulkheads and ethernet pass throughs. 
I think maybe he has been at it for about an hour maybe an hour and a half.


Programing takes about 10-15 minutes to upload new firmware and 
configure the boards.


George


Tom DeReggi wrote:
On average, how long does it take, to build a WAR/rootenna radio system, 
start to finish.
Or I should say, how much time should the manager allocate for the 
process to be complete by their techs.

Lets define some common variables
Say the tech is building 5 at a time, of the same configuration.
Assume that its mounting equipment that does not come as a complete kit, 
meaning the follow ing variable could occurs

Need to find the correct standoffs.
Net to cut sheet metal and drill holes for backplane.
Need to power up and teset radio.
Boards are WAR board preloaded with Firmware.

PS. The WAR boards have narrower diameter mounting hole, and the typical 
coarse thread gold PC stand-offs are to wide and thread into the hole in 
appropriately.
Any one have a source for the fine thread narrower diameter standoffs 
and nuts?


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband



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RE: [WISPA] ot, private chat

[Mike Delp]

Marlon,

We use Wildfire and Spark is the client.  It is a jabber server that has
encryption built in.

Mike

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 5:53 PM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Cc: isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com
Subject: [WISPA] ot, private chat

Hi All,

A few years back, there was a program called Blab-it.  It was a private chat

system.  I have a couple of corporate customers that are interested in a 
Yahoo or MSN Messenger type application but they want it isolated to their 
own network (including remote offices) and they want better security.

Anyone know of such a beast?  I could probably handle something that rides 
on my server, but a system that would ride on the customer's server is what 
they are mostly after.

thanks!
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



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-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.24/592 - Release Date: 12/18/2006
1:45 PM
 

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RE: [WISPA] building out

[Charles Wu]

The problem with the philosophy of "building out" is that you never make any
money...

Don't just "take orders" -- learn to actually sell

-Charles

---
WiNOG Wireless Roadshows
Coming to a City Near You
http://www.winog.com 



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Joe Laura
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 9:27 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] building out


I agree with Peter as well. That being said with the lower cost of gear
today its much cheaper to build out for a select few without loosing money.
Then you have another area to sell deep in. Superior Wireless New
Orleans,La. www.superior1.com
- Original Message -
From: "Matt Liotta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 9:00 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] building out


> I fully agree with Peter.
>
> -Matt
>
> Peter R. wrote:
> > Tom,
> >
> > My limited exposure has a different perspective:
> >
> > It is easier to keep building out instead of selling deep. A 
> > prospect comes to the WISP with a $400 per month pipe and the WISP 
> > builds to him. There is the hope (and the hype) that this prospect 
> > will be the first of many - and the footprint is extended.
> >
> > I don't see fiber providers selling deep. I don't see many WISP 
> > selling deep either. The cash flow comes from filling the pipe.
> >
> > That's my 2 cents.
> >
> > Peter @ RAD_INFO, Inc.
> >
> >
> > Tom DeReggi wrote:
> >
> >> Mac,
> >>
> >> Great insight. But the truth is we are not just wireless alcholics 
> >> with an addiction to build. There is a reason we (WISPs) keep 
> >> building. The reason is after considering the impact the new 
> >> tower build would have, we can truthfully look at the big picture 
> >> and say that our company is better off with the tower than without, 
> >> from an evaluation/financial point of view.  If a move brings a 
> >> company in a positive direction, why not do it?  The new tower 
> >> never costs as much as the early ones.  Everytime a new tower is 
> >> built, new opportunity gets created, but old costs get shared, such 
> >> as the upfront fixed costs of backbone transit bandwdith and 
> >> primary overhead office staff.  In this business, its hard to stay 
> >> small.
> >>
> >> Tom DeReggi
> >> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> >> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
> >>
>
> --
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>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: 
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>
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RE: [WISPA] Form 477 Confidentiality Challenged in Court

[Rick Harnish]

That’s a good view Tom.  Until a decision is made one way or another, we
probably shouldn't jump to conclusions.  However, we should keep a keen eye
for a comment period concerning this issue.  

Rick Harnish
President
OnlyInternet Broadband & Wireless, Inc.
260-827-2482
Founding Member of WISPA

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 1:33 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Form 477 Confidentiality Challenged in Court

I'm glad this is being taken to court. One of the reasons many WISPs don't 
file still (even though legally required to), is because they are afraid 
that the information will be shared with someone that will result in a 
negative effect, whether its the tax collector or competitors.  Proving that

this information can or can not be kept confidential will take a load off 
the mind of parties that are obligated to file.  Hopefully, the FCC will be 
victorious and not need to disclose the information.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Rick Harnish" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 11:37 AM
Subject: [WISPA] Form 477 Confidentiality Challenged in Court


It looks as though the confidentiality of Form 477 information is being
challenged in court.  Anyone with further insight that has comments, they
are appreciated.  Our office received this document via email today.



PUBLIC NOTICE

Federal Communications Commission

445 12th St., S.W.

Washington, D.C. 20554

News Media Information 202 / 418-0500

Fax-On-Demand 202 / 418-2830

TTY 202 / 418-2555

Internet: http://www.fcc.gov

ftp fcc gov

DA 06-2534

December 15, 2006

Public Notice To Service Providers Who Filed FCC Form 477s With The
Commission And Sought

Confidential Treatment Of The Information Submitted

This Public Notice notifies all filers who sought confidential treatment of
their Form 477

information that the public release of this information is being sought. The
following litigation is pending

in U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia: Center for Public
Integrity v. Federal

Communications Commission, Civil Action No. 06-1644 (RMC). Plaintiff
initiated this action under the

Freedom of Information Act (FOIA), 5 U.S.C. § 552, as amended, seeking
release of all FCC Form 477s

filed with the Commission. The Wireline Competition Bureau previously denied
plaintiff's FOIA request

for these records, pursuant to FOIA exemption 4, because it found that the
requested records contain

commercially sensitive, competitive information and that release would cause
harm to the entities that

submitted the requested information. The plaintiff has filed for de novo
review of its request by the U.S.

District Court. The Commission's brief in this proceeding is due to be filed
with the court on January 8,

2007.

For further information, contact Michael A. Krasnow, Office of General
Counsel, (202) 418-

7924.

- FCC -







Rick Harnish

President

OnlyInternet Broadband & Wireless, Inc.

260-827-2482

Founding Member of WISPA



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[WISPA] Building WARboard radios

[Tom DeReggi]

On average, how long does it take, to build a WAR/rootenna radio system, 
start to finish.
Or I should say, how much time should the manager allocate for the process 
to be complete by their techs.

Lets define some common variables
Say the tech is building 5 at a time, of the same configuration.
Assume that its mounting equipment that does not come as a complete kit, 
meaning the follow ing variable could occurs

Need to find the correct standoffs.
Net to cut sheet metal and drill holes for backplane.
Need to power up and teset radio.
Boards are WAR board preloaded with Firmware.

PS. The WAR boards have narrower diameter mounting hole, and the typical 
coarse thread gold PC stand-offs are to wide and thread into the hole in 
appropriately.
Any one have a source for the fine thread narrower diameter standoffs and 
nuts?


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband 


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Re: [WISPA] Form 477 Confidentiality Challenged in Court

[Tom DeReggi]

I'm glad this is being taken to court. One of the reasons many WISPs don't 
file still (even though legally required to), is because they are afraid 
that the information will be shared with someone that will result in a 
negative effect, whether its the tax collector or competitors.  Proving that 
this information can or can not be kept confidential will take a load off 
the mind of parties that are obligated to file.  Hopefully, the FCC will be 
victorious and not need to disclose the information.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Rick Harnish" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 11:37 AM
Subject: [WISPA] Form 477 Confidentiality Challenged in Court


It looks as though the confidentiality of Form 477 information is being
challenged in court.  Anyone with further insight that has comments, they
are appreciated.  Our office received this document via email today.



PUBLIC NOTICE

Federal Communications Commission

445 12th St., S.W.

Washington, D.C. 20554

News Media Information 202 / 418-0500

Fax-On-Demand 202 / 418-2830

TTY 202 / 418-2555

Internet: http://www.fcc.gov

ftp fcc gov

DA 06-2534

December 15, 2006

Public Notice To Service Providers Who Filed FCC Form 477s With The
Commission And Sought

Confidential Treatment Of The Information Submitted

This Public Notice notifies all filers who sought confidential treatment of
their Form 477

information that the public release of this information is being sought. The
following litigation is pending

in U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia: Center for Public
Integrity v. Federal

Communications Commission, Civil Action No. 06-1644 (RMC). Plaintiff
initiated this action under the

Freedom of Information Act (FOIA), 5 U.S.C. § 552, as amended, seeking
release of all FCC Form 477s

filed with the Commission. The Wireline Competition Bureau previously denied
plaintiff's FOIA request

for these records, pursuant to FOIA exemption 4, because it found that the
requested records contain

commercially sensitive, competitive information and that release would cause
harm to the entities that

submitted the requested information. The plaintiff has filed for de novo
review of its request by the U.S.

District Court. The Commission's brief in this proceeding is due to be filed
with the court on January 8,

2007.

For further information, contact Michael A. Krasnow, Office of General
Counsel, (202) 418-

7924.

- FCC -







Rick Harnish

President

OnlyInternet Broadband & Wireless, Inc.

260-827-2482

Founding Member of WISPA



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Re: [WISPA] building out

[Tom DeReggi]

I also agree with Peter.
Life would have been much easier for me along the way, if I executed that 
advise sooner.


However, now I have more pipes to fills, and can still follow that advice on 
a larger scale.
Now I can serve 90% of the leads that come in with little new cost, apposed 
to 10% of the leads at a high cost.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Matt Liotta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 10:00 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] building out



I fully agree with Peter.

-Matt

Peter R. wrote:

Tom,

My limited exposure has a different perspective:

It is easier to keep building out instead of selling deep.
A prospect comes to the WISP with a $400 per month pipe and the WISP 
builds to him.
There is the hope (and the hype) that this prospect will be the first of 
many - and the footprint is extended.


I don't see fiber providers selling deep. I don't see many WISP selling 
deep either.

The cash flow comes from filling the pipe.

That's my 2 cents.

Peter @ RAD_INFO, Inc.


Tom DeReggi wrote:


Mac,

Great insight. But the truth is we are not just wireless alcholics with 
an addiction to build. There is a reason we (WISPs) keep building. The 
reason is after considering the impact the new tower build would 
have, we can truthfully look at the big picture and say that our company 
is better off with the tower than without, from an evaluation/financial 
point of view.  If a move brings a company in a positive direction, why 
not do it?  The new tower never costs as much as the early ones. 
Everytime a new tower is built, new opportunity gets created, but old 
costs get shared, such as the upfront fixed costs of backbone transit 
bandwdith and primary overhead office staff.  In this business, its hard 
to stay small.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband



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Re: [WISPA] salary

[Peter R.]

Matt Liotta wrote:


Travis Johnson wrote:

"Everyone in an S Corp has to get the same benefits - so if you take 
health care, so does every employee" is incorrect. We have consulted 
with our accountant and our attorney on this exact matter. We have 
about 30% of our employees with health insurance and 70% without.


I believe the correct statement is that an S Corp can only have a 
single class of shareholders. In that sense, all shareholders must be 
treated the same because they share a common class. Employees are not 
necessarily shareholders.


-Matt


That's more accurate. I wasn't writing clearly last night.

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Re: [WISPA] salary

[George Rogato]

Rick Smith wrote:

as long as you OFFER it to them on a poster somewhere in the building.

At least, that's what NJ says...  that way it's "opt in" and there's no
"discrimination"



We are a "C" corp. Med plans, if offered, has to be available to all 
employees.
One of the benefits is the medical reimbursement tax benefits. It's nice 
to be able to give money to the employees, tax free.




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RE: [WISPA] salary

[Rick Smith]

as long as you OFFER it to them on a poster somewhere in the building.

At least, that's what NJ says...  that way it's "opt in" and there's no
"discrimination"

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 9:21 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary

Peter,

"Everyone in an S Corp has to get the same benefits - so if you take health
care, so does every employee" is incorrect. We have consulted with our
accountant and our attorney on this exact matter. We have about 30% of our
employees with health insurance and 70% without.

Travis
Microserv

Peter R. wrote:
> Sweat equity.
> The Google boys' $1 salary.
> Different levels of stock.
> Investors.
> }}} All of that is tax planning and corporate law.
> An S Corp has limitations - both tax and structure.
> There is a limit on who can be a stockholder and how many. (Like no 
> foreign investment).
> There can only be one kind of stock.
> Everyone in an S Corp has to get the same benefits - so if you take 
> health care, so does every employee.
> Minutes and meetings are required annually.
> Business plan is a necessity.
> Also, losses for 4 years straight for an LLC and S Corp is a flag at 
> the IRS. Losses indicate a hobby.
> BTW, some states don't like the LLC (like California).
>
> The 2 reasons to incorporate is to reduce tax liability and protect 
> against personal liability (asset protection).
>
> Asset protection and tax strategy are complicated. Many CPA's aren't 
> equipped to do complex tax work. (They can only pump a 1040). Three 
> good tax/asset strategists are Sandy Botkin, Lee Phillips, and Lisa Tom.
>
> Make sure that your CPA is willing to go with you to the IRS to defend 
> your accounting practices. (And I would get that it writing).
>
> Regards,
>
> Peter Radizeski
> RAD-INFO, Inc.
> (813) 963-5884
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [WISPA] building out

[Peter R.]

The key, though, is to sell deep. Fill those AP's.

Happy Holidays!

Peter Radizeski
RAD-INFO, Inc.

Joe Laura wrote:


I agree with Peter as well. That being said with the lower cost of gear
today its much cheaper to build out for a select few without loosing money.
Then you have another area to sell deep in.
Superior Wireless
New Orleans,La.
www.superior1.com


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[WISPA] relaynetworksinc

[Brian Rohrbacher]

http://www.relaynetworksinc.com/

Anyone done business or heard of them?  They just called me looking for 
any wireless gear I want to sell or buy used.  The guy was nice and I 
told him what I had and wanted.  He's suppose to get back with me when 
he finds a buyer.  I don't know how much the website says about 
wireless, he said it is getting updated to include wireless.


So, good, bad, ugly?  Anyone know?

Brian
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[WISPA] Form 477 Confidentiality Challenged in Court

[Rick Harnish]

It looks as though the confidentiality of Form 477 information is being
challenged in court.  Anyone with further insight that has comments, they
are appreciated.  Our office received this document via email today.

 

PUBLIC NOTICE

Federal Communications Commission

445 12th St., S.W.

Washington, D.C. 20554

News Media Information 202 / 418-0500

Fax-On-Demand 202 / 418-2830

TTY 202 / 418-2555

Internet: http://www.fcc.gov

ftp fcc gov

DA 06-2534

December 15, 2006

Public Notice To Service Providers Who Filed FCC Form 477s With The
Commission And Sought

Confidential Treatment Of The Information Submitted

This Public Notice notifies all filers who sought confidential treatment of
their Form 477

information that the public release of this information is being sought. The
following litigation is pending

in U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia: Center for Public
Integrity v. Federal

Communications Commission, Civil Action No. 06-1644 (RMC). Plaintiff
initiated this action under the

Freedom of Information Act (FOIA), 5 U.S.C. § 552, as amended, seeking
release of all FCC Form 477s

filed with the Commission. The Wireline Competition Bureau previously denied
plaintiff's FOIA request

for these records, pursuant to FOIA exemption 4, because it found that the
requested records contain

commercially sensitive, competitive information and that release would cause
harm to the entities that

submitted the requested information. The plaintiff has filed for de novo
review of its request by the U.S.

District Court. The Commission’s brief in this proceeding is due to be filed
with the court on January 8,

2007.

For further information, contact Michael A. Krasnow, Office of General
Counsel, (202) 418-

7924.

- FCC –

 

 

 

Rick Harnish

President

OnlyInternet Broadband & Wireless, Inc.

260-827-2482

Founding Member of WISPA

 

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Re: [WISPA] salary

[Matt Liotta]

Travis Johnson wrote:
"Everyone in an S Corp has to get the same benefits - so if you take 
health care, so does every employee" is incorrect. We have consulted 
with our accountant and our attorney on this exact matter. We have 
about 30% of our employees with health insurance and 70% without.
I believe the correct statement is that an S Corp can only have a single 
class of shareholders. In that sense, all shareholders must be treated 
the same because they share a common class. Employees are not 
necessarily shareholders.


-Matt

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Re: [WISPA] building out

[Joe Laura]

I agree with Peter as well. That being said with the lower cost of gear
today its much cheaper to build out for a select few without loosing money.
Then you have another area to sell deep in.
Superior Wireless
New Orleans,La.
www.superior1.com
- Original Message -
From: "Matt Liotta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 9:00 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] building out


> I fully agree with Peter.
>
> -Matt
>
> Peter R. wrote:
> > Tom,
> >
> > My limited exposure has a different perspective:
> >
> > It is easier to keep building out instead of selling deep.
> > A prospect comes to the WISP with a $400 per month pipe and the WISP
> > builds to him.
> > There is the hope (and the hype) that this prospect will be the first
> > of many - and the footprint is extended.
> >
> > I don't see fiber providers selling deep. I don't see many WISP
> > selling deep either.
> > The cash flow comes from filling the pipe.
> >
> > That's my 2 cents.
> >
> > Peter @ RAD_INFO, Inc.
> >
> >
> > Tom DeReggi wrote:
> >
> >> Mac,
> >>
> >> Great insight. But the truth is we are not just wireless alcholics
> >> with an addiction to build. There is a reason we (WISPs) keep
> >> building. The reason is after considering the impact the new
> >> tower build would have, we can truthfully look at the big picture and
> >> say that our company is better off with the tower than without, from
> >> an evaluation/financial point of view.  If a move brings a company in
> >> a positive direction, why not do it?  The new tower never costs as
> >> much as the early ones.  Everytime a new tower is built, new
> >> opportunity gets created, but old costs get shared, such as the
> >> upfront fixed costs of backbone transit bandwdith and primary
> >> overhead office staff.  In this business, its hard to stay small.
> >>
> >> Tom DeReggi
> >> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> >> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
> >>
>
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Re: [WISPA] building out

[Matt Liotta]

I fully agree with Peter.

-Matt

Peter R. wrote:

Tom,

My limited exposure has a different perspective:

It is easier to keep building out instead of selling deep.
A prospect comes to the WISP with a $400 per month pipe and the WISP 
builds to him.
There is the hope (and the hype) that this prospect will be the first 
of many - and the footprint is extended.


I don't see fiber providers selling deep. I don't see many WISP 
selling deep either.

The cash flow comes from filling the pipe.

That's my 2 cents.

Peter @ RAD_INFO, Inc.


Tom DeReggi wrote:


Mac,

Great insight. But the truth is we are not just wireless alcholics 
with an addiction to build. There is a reason we (WISPs) keep 
building. The reason is after considering the impact the new 
tower build would have, we can truthfully look at the big picture and 
say that our company is better off with the tower than without, from 
an evaluation/financial point of view.  If a move brings a company in 
a positive direction, why not do it?  The new tower never costs as 
much as the early ones.  Everytime a new tower is built, new 
opportunity gets created, but old costs get shared, such as the 
upfront fixed costs of backbone transit bandwdith and primary 
overhead office staff.  In this business, its hard to stay small.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband



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Re: [WISPA] salary

[Travis Johnson]

Peter,

"Everyone in an S Corp has to get the same benefits - so if you take 
health care, so does every employee" is incorrect. We have consulted 
with our accountant and our attorney on this exact matter. We have about 
30% of our employees with health insurance and 70% without.


Travis
Microserv

Peter R. wrote:

Sweat equity.
The Google boys' $1 salary.
Different levels of stock.
Investors.
}}} All of that is tax planning and corporate law.
An S Corp has limitations - both tax and structure.
There is a limit on who can be a stockholder and how many. (Like no 
foreign investment).

There can only be one kind of stock.
Everyone in an S Corp has to get the same benefits - so if you take 
health care, so does every employee.

Minutes and meetings are required annually.
Business plan is a necessity.
Also, losses for 4 years straight for an LLC and S Corp is a flag at 
the IRS. Losses indicate a hobby.

BTW, some states don't like the LLC (like California).

The 2 reasons to incorporate is to reduce tax liability and protect 
against personal liability (asset protection).


Asset protection and tax strategy are complicated. Many CPA's aren't 
equipped to do complex tax work. (They can only pump a 1040). Three 
good tax/asset strategists are Sandy Botkin, Lee Phillips, and Lisa Tom.


Make sure that your CPA is willing to go with you to the IRS to defend 
your accounting practices. (And I would get that it writing).


Regards,

Peter Radizeski
RAD-INFO, Inc.
(813) 963-5884






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Re: [WISPA] Email a Critical Service? was: A wisp who went a little too far.......

[Pete Davis]

Okay, lets say that the "pay-per-email" program costs $0.02 to send a 
message. $0.01 goes to the domain registration owner of the receiving 
domain, and $0.01 goes to the recipient. That 100,000,000 Spam messages 
that my Barracuda blocked would be worth $1M, if I had let them go 
through in that scenario, and most/many of my users would have enough 
spam credit to not have to pay their invoice for a few years. The 
reality: all you have to pay for is bandwidth. There is no logistically 
feasible way (that I can see) to put a $0.02 charge on someone/everyone 
sending an email.


If paper/printing was free the US Postal service allowed ANYONE to send 
ANYTHING for FREE (like the way email works) then a dump truck of junk 
mail would be backing up to your door every morning. The junk mail 
advertisers paying $0.17 for bulk mail actually subsidizes the $0.39 
that we pay for first class email. Without a bulk mail discount, first 
class mail would be costing us $2/letter or more.


pd

Rick Smith wrote:

I still get junk mail in my mailbox at the road.

I don't like pay-per-email ideas - they (spammers) will then just pay...

I think the internet really needs to revamp the smtp idea with authenticated
senders.   Just having a 25 port open shouldn't be enough

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of John Scrivner
Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 4:13 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Email a Critical Service? was: A wisp who went a little too
far...

If email becomes that important then your business becomes worth more money.
I welcome it personally. Obviously we will all need to investigate ways of
creating a more stable email environment than we have now. I think we will
need to consider developing a "pay per email" 
platform where messages are billable. This goes both ways. It fixes the spam

issue also. This is our chance to become as important to the American public
as the delivery of first class mail. This is important to discuss and
debate. What is better? Email is not important or is vitally important?
Scriv


fred wrote:

Why in the world, I want to know, are organ availability notifications 
going out via email???!!! Seriously. How fun will it be when they 
start serving subpeonas and such that way - What I never got that 
email??


~fred

On 12/16/06, Mike Ireton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


The really interesting part of this:


The attack cut off service for one woman who was waiting for an 
e-mail notifying her about the availability of an organ transplant 
that she required, according to prosecutors. Because of her 
critical status,

her

provider gave her priority status and restored her access within 24

hours.
"Had her medical providers sent her an e-mail notifying her of a 
suitable organ donor and had she not responded because of her lost 
Internet access, she might have lost her priority for an organ, 
thus potentially extending the period she would have to wait for 
another donor," wrote prosecutors in the indictment.


   People are starting to believe their email is guaranteed and 
that their computers can be entrusted with life saving information. 
Worse yet, it appears these prosecutors would have trumped this up 
and made hay out of it had her mail not gotten there. So in another 
context - what if the stock pump and dump scammers started using 
wrapper text that mentioned organ donations to the point of poisoning 
the Bayesian databases of all spamassassin enabled mail servers? What 
if the mail has been blocked outright due to other spam filtering 
already in place? Or put into a quarantine and she didn't look in her 
quarantine box in time? Or if the sending server of the mail was on 
an RBL due to some other user at the site sending spam to spamcop 
spamtraps for example?


   Drama is drama. I think what this guy did was reprehensible 
and he certainly deserves the clink, but what he did is not any kind 
of threat or risk to health and safety - the stupidity of using email 
and computers for life saving communications IS.


$0.02

Mike-

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RE: [WISPA] ot, private chat

[Eric Rogers]

Why not use Trillian and "Encrypt" your sessions.  It will send through AOL or 
MSN Messenger but it sends it from client-to-client encrypted.
 
Eric



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
Sent: Mon 12/18/2006 6:52 PM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Cc: isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com
Subject: [WISPA] ot, private chat



Hi All,

A few years back, there was a program called Blab-it.  It was a private chat
system.  I have a couple of corporate customers that are interested in a
Yahoo or MSN Messenger type application but they want it isolated to their
own network (including remote offices) and they want better security.

Anyone know of such a beast?  I could probably handle something that rides
on my server, but a system that would ride on the customer's server is what
they are mostly after.

thanks!
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



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Re: [WISPA] ot, private chat

[Pete Davis]

http://hamachi.cc has a an application with a private chat. That is a 
side feature in their product. The main app is a P2P VPN application 
that works actually very well. Everyone in your Hamachi group (up to 16 
nodes in free version, 254 in the $40/yr version) can share 
files/printers and chat as if they were in the same physical LAN. A nice 
configuration-less VPN.


The Nat/Nat Transversal trick: The Hamachi company (now owned by 
logmein.com) has the 5.0.0.0/8 subnet and every Hamachi user tunnels in 
and gets a 5.x.x.x IP address. The Hamachi software handles the 
encryption and authentication, and only uses the 5.x.x.x subnet for 
VPN'ing.


Pete Davis
NoDial.net

Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:

Hi All,

A few years back, there was a program called Blab-it.  It was a private 
chat system.  I have a couple of corporate customers that are interested 
in a Yahoo or MSN Messenger type application but they want it isolated 
to their own network (including remote offices) and they want better 
security.


Anyone know of such a beast?  I could probably handle something that 
rides on my server, but a system that would ride on the customer's 
server is what they are mostly after.


thanks!
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam





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RE: [WISPA] salary WARNING: DON'T DO IT! THREAD ENDED

[Rick Harnish]

OK, I KNOW WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN HERE.  DON'T GO THERE GUYS.  START A NEW
SALARY THREAD IF YOU WANT.  PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS ONE.

Rick Harnish
President
OnlyInternet Broadband & Wireless, Inc.
260-827-2482
Founding Member of WISPA


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lonnie Nunweiler
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 2:32 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary

Mac, and Matt.  This is an easy question to answer.

You stop doing it when it stops being fun and becomes a job.  I built
five 100' towers this Summer.  

Lonnie

On 12/18/06, Mac Dearman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Gino,
>
>
>   That's a question that Larsen and I have been hunting an answer to for a
> couple years. We both said we were going to sit back and collect some of
our
> initial investments back over a year ago. I know Larsen is still hanging
> gear in every town along the 3 States he borders (get 'em son) and also
> created one of the longest "production" wireless backhaul links (60+
miles)
> of anybody anywhere that I am aware of. I too have built 7 new towers in
the
> last few months and built out about a dozen new towns and gone to all
fiber.
>
>
> My point is this - - - it's a vicious circle! When is enough - enough? We
> get a new tower up and swear "this is the last", but from that tower there
> is another community that is yet without internet connectivity and just
one
> more little hop will get them caught! It's a never ending story - - -
looks
> like we need a "wireless anonymous" group to help us break the cycle!!
>
>  If you find the cure - - send Larsen and myself a double dose.
>
>
> Mac
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Gino A. Villarini
> Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 12:51 PM
> To: 'WISPA General List'
> Subject: RE: [WISPA] salary
>
> The question I always ask myself is when to stop upgrading and expanding..
>
> Gino A. Villarini
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of George Rogato
> Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 12:08 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary
>
> Ditto, and we make enough profit to roll the profit back into our
> business in network upgrades, etc.
>
> If I stopped my upgrades and just collected money, I could lay someone
> off and make a very handsome roi.
>
> George
>
> John Scrivner wrote:
> > Yes. We earn salary and profits. It is not as much as I would like but
> > our company is profitable and has been for 9 years.
> > Scriv
> >
> >
> > Brian Rohrbacher wrote:
> >
> >> Is this all such a big deal?  You guys actually have profits!?
> >>
> >> Brian
> >>
> >> John Scrivner wrote:
> >>
> >>> I do not think any WISPs here really know the answer to this. What is
> >>> needed is an answer from an accountant. If anyone on here is a CPA
> >>> and can share what the rules are I would be glad to see them. I do
> >>> not believe that simply drawing profits from a S corp WISP as opposed
> >>> to taking a salary is tax evasion. In a S corp you pay taxes for
> >>> profits same as you do for payroll. Where you might have a problem is
> >>> with unemployment insurance, social security, workmans comp, etc.
> >>> Those are based on payroll. Profits are not in the calculation.
> >>> Essentially you are dodging those when you do not take a salary.
> >>> Scriv
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Charles Wu wrote:
> >>>
>  
>  Zero.  When the CEO is also the primary investor, and the company is
>  an S-corp or LLC, why pay payroll tax, when you can just take a
>  repayment of loan?
>  The salary of the CEO can be meaningless unless also disclosed
>  wether they have an equity position or not, and of what caliber.
>  
> 
>  B/c when you get audited by the IRS (which for any small business,
>  is just a
>  matter of time), you will FINED for tax evasion...
> 
>  -Charles
> 
>  ---
>  WiNOG Wireless Roadshows
>  Coming to a City Near You
>  http://www.winog.com
> 
> 
>  -Original Message-
>  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
>  Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
>  Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 1:51 AM
>  To: WISPA General List
>  Subject: Re: [WISPA] salary
> 
> 
> 
>  Tom DeReggi
>  RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
>  IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
> 
> 
>  - Original Message - From: "Travis Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  To: "WISPA General List" 
>  Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 8:55 PM
>  Subject: [WISPA] salary
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > Hi,
> >
> > Just taking a quick survey... answer if you can, but be honest... ;)
> >
> > What is the salary of the CEO of your ISP? Ev