I ended up going to Key West for dinner.
-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
--
From: "Jeremy Parr"
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 10:11 PM
To: "WISPA General List"
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Miami hotel
> I'm
Too late because I've been enjoying South Florida, but I have been staying
at the Crowne Plaza.
-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
--
From: "Travis Johnson"
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 5:36 PM
To: "WI
That's correct.
marlon
- Original Message -
From: "RickG"
To: "WISPA General List"
Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 8:06 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] CPE - who buys it?
> Marlon,
>
> I'm assuming that since you have metered billing, you dont have to worry
> about shaping their bandwidth at
If you own all of the CPE the customer will expect the latest and greatest.
When you upgrade the system you not only have to change out tower gear but
you also have to change out the cpe. Oh yeah, you have to pay for both if
you own the cpe. But you'll not get any "install" fees from people do
Yup... I've been saying this for almost 8 years... ;)
The other thing to keep in mind is when you can buy 100 CPE at a time,
the price is less... which actually offsets some of the interest rate
of leasing. :)
Travis
Microserv
Chuck Hogg wrote:
Let me ask you this though...
Would you rat
While our $200 install fee stops a few, it really hasnt been a big issue.
I've seen several studies that indicated most would spend $200 for
installation for broadband. On that note, the reason I'm inquiring about
selling the customer the equipment is that would allow me to lower the
install fee ev
Wow... Verizon is screwing you... my family has 5 lines, 1200 minutes
shared (national with carryover), unlimited text mesages and pics and I
pay $165 per month total (including all taxes, surcharges, etc.).
That's with AT&T even.
Travis
Microserv
Mike wrote:
There are those (the 5%?) who
Normally, I'd choose door #2. In addition, the lease payment is full tax
deduction. I like many aspects of leasing. But, you better have a good
business plan because if you lose subs or service pricing goes down you
could be caught in an negative cash flow very quickly. Also, what if you
need to fo
Interesting way to look at it Chuck. I have this simple aversion to
acquiring debt. If the customer pays a capital fee up front to cover
equipment costs, but never really owns it, I never have to pay lease
charges. I own all of my towers so pay no rent there. I have not
entertained leasing
My personal opinion is that it would be more attractive if I got the cpe as
part of a purchase of a company no matter equipment. On another note I have
never had anyone wanting to buy the CPE to get out of a 1 year contract. The
only thing preventing people to signup is the 99 install fee is to
I don't think so. I could come up with some sort of number for value
for CPE I suppose, but a buyer would look at tower assets, all mine,
radio equipment, all mine and cash flow. The pencil would dwell on
the cash flow.
For me, this is the best route. This IS my retirement, so I'm not
looki
Mike, Fortunately our balance sheet looks awesome too. Let me ask the
question a different way: Do you think your company would be more attractive
to a buyer if the CPE was owned by the company?
On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 10:15 PM, Mike wrote:
> Oh heck no. My balance sheet looks awesome; no debt;
I'm not a CPA by any means but the moment CPE became available for less than
a couple hundred dollars, it made total sense to expense it. If I understand
correctly, for tax purposes, capitol equipment utilizing a depreciation
schedule was really meant for high dollar items that last years.
If I und
I agree with that on a Canopy system or other high dollar CPE WISP. But,
what about a WISP using low dollar equipment. Does it matter then?
On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 9:40 PM, Chuck Hogg wrote:
> Absolutely, because the customer is now not worth as much. Kind of the
> same thing when evaluating a n
IF you have competition of the WISP sort that is :)
On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 9:37 PM, Chuck Hogg wrote:
> Biggest Con: Competitor can now come in and take control of your
> equipment and say "Call them and tell them you are with us now".
>
> Regards,
> Chuck Hogg
> Shelby Broadband
> 502-722-9292
Marlon,
I'm assuming that since you have metered billing, you dont have to worry
about shaping their bandwidth at the CPE then?
On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 9:37 PM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
> We put THEIR password on all radios. They can move to a new company any
> time they want. It's a good sales
I let you know what I find out.
On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 9:36 PM, Chuck Hogg wrote:
> Maybe he is talking about how the Flemming Mason (Altius) guys that went
> BTOP/BIP on the four surrounding counties. I have looked into this many
> times, and haven't been able to find anything about it. 3 hou
Let me ask you this though...
Would you rather
1) Buy $5,000 worth of Canopy equipment per month at 25 installs per
month (new $1,250 in revenue at $50/mth)
- Or -
2) Obtain a lease at $3,000 per month for 100 installs per month ($5,000
in revenue at $50/mth). Essentially, you are putting $2k
Huh? I do capitalize tower equipment; just NOT CPE.
Mike
At 08:43 PM 11/8/2009, you wrote:
>Yeah, till you have to forklift entire towers at a time. Then what? No
>more install fees, but you could easily have to replace thousands of dollars
>in hardware within week or months.
>marlon
>
>-
Oh heck no. My balance sheet looks awesome; no debt; positive cash flow.
Mike
At 03:56 PM 11/8/2009, you wrote:
>Do you feel it has a negative affect on your companies value if you dont own
>the CPE?
>
>On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 3:50 PM, Michael Baird wrote:
>
> > You don't have to pay property ta
Radio equipment is on an accelerated depreciation schedule. I don't
capitalize customer equipment; it's a cost for them to
"join." Instead, it's taxable for the state, and doesn't appear on
my books as equipment. It is NOT an expense for the company.
Unless you count my initial startup costs
We've tried to work with Canadian WISPs in the past. There may even be a
mailing list for it.
We've also helped write filings for industry Canada in the past.
marlon
- Original Message -
From: "George Morris"
To: "'WISPA General List'"
Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 3:07 PM
Subject:
Yeah, till you have to forklift entire towers at a time. Then what? No
more install fees, but you could easily have to replace thousands of dollars
in hardware within week or months.
marlon
- Original Message -
From: "Mike"
To: "WISPA General List"
Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 1:
What country are you in George?
marlon
- Original Message -
From: "George Morris"
To: "'WISPA General List'"
Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 1:08 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Metered Billing
> Amen. It would be a very handy thing to maintain that list of speedtest
> servers centrally somew
Absolutely, because the customer is now not worth as much. Kind of the
same thing when evaluating a network, a Canopy Network will draw much
more $ than a Ubiquiti network if there is a sale.
Regards,
Chuck Hogg
Shelby Broadband
502-722-9292
ch...@shelbybb.com
http://www.shelbybb.com
-Orig
Biggest Con: Competitor can now come in and take control of your
equipment and say "Call them and tell them you are with us now".
Regards,
Chuck Hogg
Shelby Broadband
502-722-9292
ch...@shelbybb.com
http://www.shelbybb.com
-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wirel
We put THEIR password on all radios. They can move to a new company any
time they want. It's a good sales thing for us actually. No contracts and
they own the radio. The only reason for them to stay with us is that we're
doing a good job. The customers out here eat that logic up!
marlon
--
Maybe he is talking about how the Flemming Mason (Altius) guys that went
BTOP/BIP on the four surrounding counties. I have looked into this many
times, and haven't been able to find anything about it. 3 houses down
is our State Rep, and I have asked him a few times as well, and he isn't
aware of
We've always sold the gear to the customers.
We don't have to pay property tax on it that way.
They pay for the upgrades, we don't have to. (Though a change from us that
causes 2 year old cpe to quit working is a case where we'll replace the gear
at no charge. That or something close to that.
When browsing DSLREPORTS forums, one can see that it has become a game for
some: "Who can download the most in a month." With some high speed cable
operator forums, you can see Terabytes++ beating terabytes+ as useless
garbage is downloaded for the game. It's like leaving your water hose on
to s
Here's some quick numbers off my network:
for the last 8 days
71% of customers downloaded less than 1 GByte of Data.
The top 10% all exceeded 2 GB
The top 5% all exceeded 4.4 GB
The top 1% exceeded 10 GB
Marco
On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 3:08 PM, George Morris wrote:
> Amen. It would be a very h
WISPA appears to be American WISP-centric Ralph. How many members are based
outside the USA?
What does WISPA do for non-American WISPs other than run a very good public
mailing list that provides some decent discussion on the business in general
terms?
Please take a look at the WISPA web site and
Wisps is wisp-centric. There is no excuse not to support your
organization.
On Nov 8, 2009, at 4:08 PM, "George Morris"
wrote:
> Amen. It would be a very handy thing to maintain that list of
> speedtest
> servers centrally somewhere, perhaps within WISPA.
>
> We don't belong to WISPA becau
Just a side note, the water meters were installed by mandate of the DEQ
(Government Agency) They fixed it so the Utilities could not borrow
money or apply for grants if they were not metered.
With the way our politics are going right now it may not be long before
there is a Gov Agency making rul
Do you feel it has a negative affect on your companies value if you dont own
the CPE?
On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 3:50 PM, Michael Baird wrote:
> You don't have to pay property tax on the CPE. You don't have to go pick
> up the device if the customer quits. You can charge the customer for
> replaceme
What do you mean you dont keep CPE on the books?
On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Mike wrote:
> I made a decision when I founded this company that I wouldn't keep
> CPE on the books. I extract a capital fee on day one for the REAL
> cost of CPE and cabling, mount et al. I maintain ownership.
>
Those are my exact thoughts.
On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 3:50 PM, Michael Baird wrote:
> You don't have to pay property tax on the CPE. You don't have to go pick
> up the device if the customer quits. You can charge the customer for
> replacement radios. You can offer a value add-on product such as m
Nathan, That is what we do now, charge a higher installation fee but there
are many drawbacks to that. Why do you say not to sell it to them?
On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 3:41 PM, Nathan Stooke wrote:
> Hello,
>
>Do not sell it to them, just charge a higher setup fee.
>
>Thanks
>
>
> --
We sell the CPE and lock the customer out as a condition of it being
allowed on our network.
There is some interesting precedents where people purchased cable
modems and loaded their own config to get around speed limiting and
were then prosecuted for theft of service.
On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 2:31
I made a decision when I founded this company that I wouldn't keep
CPE on the books. I extract a capital fee on day one for the REAL
cost of CPE and cabling, mount et al. I maintain ownership.
It's like joining a health club; you pay an initiation fee. When you
quit, you don't get to take th
Amen. It would be a very handy thing to maintain that list of speedtest
servers centrally somewhere, perhaps within WISPA.
We don't belong to WISPA because its FCC centric which really doesn't help
us much. Much of the dues go to getting the FCC to move in a given direction
which isn't of much dir
I have (hopefully) all the speedtest ips in the allow list. They run
speedtest real fast, but download video for an hour and it will
throttle you. Find those speedtest IPs and let em run. Perception
is everything. Give them the perception they get that all the time.
Mike
At 12:25 PM 11/8/2
You don't have to pay property tax on the CPE. You don't have to go pick
up the device if the customer quits. You can charge the customer for
replacement radios. You can offer a value add-on product such as modem
insurance.
Regards
Michael Baird
> I've always provided the CPE to the end user an
Hello,
Do not sell it to them, just charge a higher setup fee.
Thanks
-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of RickG
Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 2:24 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] CPE - who buys
I would enquire further that wont cost you anything.
Richard
2009/11/8 RickG
> OK, so one of my subscribers happens to be close to the Governor. He claims
> there is grant money (not loans) available to build out wireless in the 4
> adjacent counties to ours. He also claims there are no strings
Only drawback I've seen to them buying it is that if you have confidential
configuration information in it, and the customer demands access to it since
"they bought it"
On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 1:24 PM, RickG wrote:
> I've always provided the CPE to the end user and retained ownership as part
> of
I've always provided the CPE to the end user and retained ownership as part
of the service. That was mostly due to the high cost of CPE in the past.
With the advent of lower CPE cost, I'm considering changing that to where
the customer buys their own CPE. I'd like to hear the pros and cons to this
OK, so one of my subscribers happens to be close to the Governor. He claims
there is grant money (not loans) available to build out wireless in the 4
adjacent counties to ours. He also claims there are no strings attached.
I've been against the "Obama money" on a number of different levels but the
" We're going to have to learn a lot about that in a hurry."
Thats the way the technology industry has always been in the 30+ years I've
been a part of it.
You're definitely in a different boat than we are. We're as rural as it
gets. Bandwidth is worth more than gold, no density as far as subscrib
Rick, I'm not nearly brave enough to claim this is going to handle all our
future needs, but from what I've see so far its going to help a lot over the
next 2-3 years.
We've been playing with both the Ubiquiti stuff and the MikroTik stuff for
many months now and we're encouraged that there is a fu
George, I have not played with the N stuff. Mostly because I need to upgrade
my towers. That is in the plans. Which is where this discussion s
originating from. Anytime I spend money, I have to confirm it is worthwhile
and will represent an ROI. Yes, bandwidth is coming down ever so slowly
(here a
This is when I miss Charles Wu on this list. We built a comprehensive
spreadsheet together once showing real numbers. Of course that was a long
time ago and the numbers are obsolete. Perhaps its time to resurrect it? As
Marlon said, there is limited capacity. That statement applies to us in many
wa
Travis, I do agree with you that bandwidth eventually becomes less of a
concern. I failed to make my point. I was responding to your comment that
you have unlimited water which in my mind did not mesh with this discussion.
Dont get me wrong, I'm looking for and appreciate your input.
At any rate, A
Fantastic discussion folks! This has been constantly on my mind since '97
when I paid $3500/month for a T1. Even more now with video moving to our
networks. Marlon is right, proper implementaion is critical. When I started
metered billing, I made sure everyone knew and that they had plenty of elbow
Rick, there is a heck of a range of technology out there as you know.
Anything from the old Alvarion hoppers to the new stuff using N from
Ubiquiti and Mikrotik + dog.
It isn't the same game anymore, provided you can get your Internet pipe(s)
at a reasonable price.
Guaranteed bandwidth from a WI
You get what you pay for.
On 11/8/09, RickG wrote:
> No, but they expect to get their speed every time they get on and they are
> great at running speed tests. I understand we are int he business of shared
> bandwidth but the equipment can only handle so much. It goes back to proper
> ratios. Whe
No, but they expect to get their speed every time they get on and they are
great at running speed tests. I understand we are int he business of shared
bandwidth but the equipment can only handle so much. It goes back to proper
ratios. When you do the numbers properly, it doesnt make financial sense
Enjoy it while you can. It's amazing they are still in business!
On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 9:41 AM, Jayson Baker wrote:
> No, my unlimited cell phone plan is only $35/mo (Cricket). I did have to
> buy the phone though, ($50).
>
> On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 12:50 AM, Marlon K. Schafer >wrote:
>
> > Un
In addition, Cricket's support sucks. I would get an answering machine! And
if you have a billing problem, forget it!
On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 8:28 AM, 3-dB Networks wrote:
> To interject a bit... Cricket is unlimited everything... that is actually
> how they market.
>
> They keep costs low by rea
Marlon,
With all due respect, the math you presented is missing a factor and a bit
rough :-
Total number of seconds in a Month = 60seconds x 60 min x 24hrs x 30 (or 31)
days = 2,592,000 (2,678,400)
A TI is rated for 1.5mb/s (or 24 channels of 64K each)= 1536kbps = 1536 x
1024 (bits/sec)= /8 to c
You've nailed the trick here Mike.
What WE have to figure out how to do is move the billing with customer
habits.
As people move their seats from the TV to the computer we need to move that
financial outflow from the video people to us
BTW, dollars to donuts if you put in a per bit billing
OK, in light of that. Have you run the calculations on what a 1 meg, 3 meg
and 6 meg stream will use?
Remember to count BOTH directions. Our average user is about 8x down vs.
up. So a 3 meg incoming video stream also contains what, about 375k of
outbound too.
As I recall, when I figured our
There are those (the 5%?) who will just try to max out the pipe all
the time if that's what they perceive they are paying for.
This thread is making me think through some of the cob webs which are
rising uses on ALL of our networks. Christmas is coming, so are new
game consoles.
I constantly
What happens when the teenager starts the streaming tv on the xbox and
a friend shows up... decides to go down the street but leaves it
running till mom and dad gets home at 6:00 PM? Then mom and dad
decide to rent a movie. To me, I am counting on over-selling the
bandwidth and that is wh
Not everyone uses 6Mbps all day long.
On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 7:52 PM, RickG wrote:
> Thats one way to utilize bandwidth shaping but how do you " guaranteed
> minimum of 1.5Mbps, 4Mbps and
> 6Mbps" at those low rates to every use and make money? Maybe I'm wrong but
> the problem I see is that you
No, my unlimited cell phone plan is only $35/mo (Cricket). I did have to
buy the phone though, ($50).
On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 12:50 AM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
> Unlimited cell phone? I don't buy it There's a limit, there always
> is.
>
> Also, is your "unlimited" cell phone program only $
We got a 4 star Hyatt for $65 on Priceline a week or so ago.
Regards,
Jeff
Jeff Broadwick
800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
+1 574-935-8484 x106 (Int'l)
-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz
Sent: Saturday, No
To interject a bit... Cricket is unlimited everything... that is actually
how they market.
They keep costs low by really only building in metropolitan areas and not
subsidizing cell phone purchases (so all of their phones are crap). My wife
has their service because a plan that meets her talk tim
Are you suggesting some sort of metric to say they are over-using
service and to move to a higher usage service? We have been "All you
can eat" for years but we are at a point where demand is driving
upgrades. I have always called the customer that used double what the
norm was and explained that
I get in today at about 1:00 pm.
Rick Harnish
260-307-4000
-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jeremy Parr
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 11:12 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Miami hotel
I'm also stuck
We spend about a day on admin of the program. Per month. So about $100.
The problem out here is that we also have a ton of competition. And VERY
rural markets. And LOT of spectrum competition. We can OFFER all of the
higher grade services in the world, but we can't deliver them Plus
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