Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion
Scriv, I agree with you. I can't think of anything more important than WISPS getting the rights and control of some licensed 700 spectrum. We need small area CMAs and bidding credits. The concern is the What IF. If we aren't granted small CMAs, and Rural Bidding Credits. Who ends up with the spectrum? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 11:38 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion The bad thing about Google's wholesale push is this: We asked for bidding credits and CMA sized blocks in the upper and lower 700 MHz bands in the upcoming auction. If Google gets their way then the upper blocks will NOT be CMA sized and will have wholesale requirements attached. I can see some of the bigger players sidestepping the larger wholesale-crippled spectrum in order to outbid all of us in the lower CMA sized blocks. In those blocks there will likely be no wholesale requirements. End result? We cannot afford to outbid them and we lose a shot at these bands for our own use. I have never seen a wholesale model for a communications platform that worked. I doubt it will work this time either. I see this as a lose - lose for us if Google gets what they want. I hope I am wrong. Scriv Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Oh man. This from anyone in the cellular industry! sigh I do, however, agree with his point. Goggle could just do that if they win the spectrum. This is clearly an attempt to devalue the spectrum. Not that that's a bad thing. Clearly we've seen that the spectrum tax, oh excuse me, auction, is a market place failure as far as broadband goes. marlon - Original Message - From: Drew Lentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 6:24 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion Just to throw another log on, here's the CTIA's approach: WASHINGTON--(BUSINESS WIRE)--CTIA-The Wireless AssociationR President and CEO Steve Largent issued the following statement today in response to a letter from Google to the Federal Communications Commission asking for special conditions in the upcoming 700 MHz spectrum auction, and pledging to bid at least $4.6 billion for that spectrum if Google's conditions are met: The veil has been lifted. Google's letter to the FCC this morning highlights the Internet giant's scheme to have the 700 MHz auction rigged with special conditions in its favor. If Google is willing to commit almost $5 billion dollars for spectrum that it wants encumbered with various requirements, then let it win that spectrum in a competitive auction and choose that business model. Google and its allies, with their collective market capitalization approaching half a trillion dollars, don't need a government handout at taxpayers' expense. The competitive wireless industry welcomes all new entrants, but no company should be able to buy a custom-fit government regulation that suits their particular business plan. Consumers should decide if they're right, not the federal government. CTIA is the international association for the wireless telecommunications industry, representing carriers, manufacturers and wireless Internet providers. Drew Lentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Smith, Rick Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 7:21 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion Rumors of Embarq pulling fiber in NW NJ. I'm trying to figure this one out, since it's home for me :) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter R. Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 7:48 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion Smith, Rick wrote: I can tell you for a fact that Embarq and Verizon have 700 Mhz and FTTP on their radar BIG time. It's that whole battle vs. war thing... They're willing to get their heads handed to them 9 times because that 10th is their nuke... OK I've gotta throw away this devil's advocate hat... EMBARQ? Hesse said that he was betting on the DSL game. Where does Embarq do FTTx? VZ and ATT are spending the money for FTTx - but not in rural America. (Maybe that's where 700 comes in, but I think the 700 is going to be used for muni wi-fi and to enhance their cellular data services). - Peter Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts
Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion
Michael Erskine wrote: The ILECs have been building the POTS network since 1900. They are not incompetent and they understand how to buy power. Actually, maybe not incompetent but entirely without vision and with an eye only to quarterly numbers. Your best recipe for retaining customers - DSL, wireless or otherwise - is to add sticky apps. You have all heard the value add speech before - but many of you still do not apply it. How did AOL keep so many customers? They didn't know how to move their address book. Take that as a hint, especially when many of your clients use webmail. There are many companies that will help you sell apps - ZOHO, AppExhange, SalesForce.net, Google Apps, Intermedia.Net, SparkGroup, Zimbra, OX, esterolos, scalix, and craig's list. Many of you are residential based -- you need to build a portal and build community. If they are coming to your portal for video, classifieds, local news, photos, blogging, and messaging -- they likely won't leave on price. Regards, Peter Radizeski RAD-INFO, Inc. - NSP Strategist We Help ISPs Connect Communicate 813.963.5884 http://www.marketingIDEAguy.com Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion
Smith, Rick wrote: I can tell you for a fact that Embarq and Verizon have 700 Mhz and FTTP on their radar BIG time. It's that whole battle vs. war thing... They're willing to get their heads handed to them 9 times because that 10th is their nuke... OK I've gotta throw away this devil's advocate hat... EMBARQ? Hesse said that he was betting on the DSL game. Where does Embarq do FTTx? VZ and ATT are spending the money for FTTx - but not in rural America. (Maybe that's where 700 comes in, but I think the 700 is going to be used for muni wi-fi and to enhance their cellular data services). - Peter Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion
Rumors of Embarq pulling fiber in NW NJ. I'm trying to figure this one out, since it's home for me :) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter R. Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 7:48 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion Smith, Rick wrote: I can tell you for a fact that Embarq and Verizon have 700 Mhz and FTTP on their radar BIG time. It's that whole battle vs. war thing... They're willing to get their heads handed to them 9 times because that 10th is their nuke... OK I've gotta throw away this devil's advocate hat... EMBARQ? Hesse said that he was betting on the DSL game. Where does Embarq do FTTx? VZ and ATT are spending the money for FTTx - but not in rural America. (Maybe that's where 700 comes in, but I think the 700 is going to be used for muni wi-fi and to enhance their cellular data services). - Peter Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion
Just to throw another log on, here's the CTIA's approach: WASHINGTON--(BUSINESS WIRE)--CTIA-The Wireless AssociationR President and CEO Steve Largent issued the following statement today in response to a letter from Google to the Federal Communications Commission asking for special conditions in the upcoming 700 MHz spectrum auction, and pledging to bid at least $4.6 billion for that spectrum if Google's conditions are met: The veil has been lifted. Google's letter to the FCC this morning highlights the Internet giant's scheme to have the 700 MHz auction rigged with special conditions in its favor. If Google is willing to commit almost $5 billion dollars for spectrum that it wants encumbered with various requirements, then let it win that spectrum in a competitive auction and choose that business model. Google and its allies, with their collective market capitalization approaching half a trillion dollars, don't need a government handout at taxpayers' expense. The competitive wireless industry welcomes all new entrants, but no company should be able to buy a custom-fit government regulation that suits their particular business plan. Consumers should decide if they're right, not the federal government. CTIA is the international association for the wireless telecommunications industry, representing carriers, manufacturers and wireless Internet providers. Drew Lentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Smith, Rick Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 7:21 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion Rumors of Embarq pulling fiber in NW NJ. I'm trying to figure this one out, since it's home for me :) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter R. Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 7:48 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion Smith, Rick wrote: I can tell you for a fact that Embarq and Verizon have 700 Mhz and FTTP on their radar BIG time. It's that whole battle vs. war thing... They're willing to get their heads handed to them 9 times because that 10th is their nuke... OK I've gotta throw away this devil's advocate hat... EMBARQ? Hesse said that he was betting on the DSL game. Where does Embarq do FTTx? VZ and ATT are spending the money for FTTx - but not in rural America. (Maybe that's where 700 comes in, but I think the 700 is going to be used for muni wi-fi and to enhance their cellular data services). - Peter Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion
The bad thing about Google's wholesale push is this: We asked for bidding credits and CMA sized blocks in the upper and lower 700 MHz bands in the upcoming auction. If Google gets their way then the upper blocks will NOT be CMA sized and will have wholesale requirements attached. I can see some of the bigger players sidestepping the larger wholesale-crippled spectrum in order to outbid all of us in the lower CMA sized blocks. In those blocks there will likely be no wholesale requirements. End result? We cannot afford to outbid them and we lose a shot at these bands for our own use. I have never seen a wholesale model for a communications platform that worked. I doubt it will work this time either. I see this as a lose - lose for us if Google gets what they want. I hope I am wrong. Scriv Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Oh man. This from anyone in the cellular industry! sigh I do, however, agree with his point. Goggle could just do that if they win the spectrum. This is clearly an attempt to devalue the spectrum. Not that that's a bad thing. Clearly we've seen that the spectrum tax, oh excuse me, auction, is a market place failure as far as broadband goes. marlon - Original Message - From: Drew Lentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 6:24 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion Just to throw another log on, here's the CTIA's approach: WASHINGTON--(BUSINESS WIRE)--CTIA-The Wireless AssociationR President and CEO Steve Largent issued the following statement today in response to a letter from Google to the Federal Communications Commission asking for special conditions in the upcoming 700 MHz spectrum auction, and pledging to bid at least $4.6 billion for that spectrum if Google's conditions are met: The veil has been lifted. Google's letter to the FCC this morning highlights the Internet giant's scheme to have the 700 MHz auction rigged with special conditions in its favor. If Google is willing to commit almost $5 billion dollars for spectrum that it wants encumbered with various requirements, then let it win that spectrum in a competitive auction and choose that business model. Google and its allies, with their collective market capitalization approaching half a trillion dollars, don't need a government handout at taxpayers' expense. The competitive wireless industry welcomes all new entrants, but no company should be able to buy a custom-fit government regulation that suits their particular business plan. Consumers should decide if they're right, not the federal government. CTIA is the international association for the wireless telecommunications industry, representing carriers, manufacturers and wireless Internet providers. Drew Lentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Smith, Rick Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 7:21 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion Rumors of Embarq pulling fiber in NW NJ. I'm trying to figure this one out, since it's home for me :) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter R. Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 7:48 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion Smith, Rick wrote: I can tell you for a fact that Embarq and Verizon have 700 Mhz and FTTP on their radar BIG time. It's that whole battle vs. war thing... They're willing to get their heads handed to them 9 times because that 10th is their nuke... OK I've gotta throw away this devil's advocate hat... EMBARQ? Hesse said that he was betting on the DSL game. Where does Embarq do FTTx? VZ and ATT are spending the money for FTTx - but not in rural America. (Maybe that's where 700 comes in, but I think the 700 is going to be used for muni wi-fi and to enhance their cellular data services). - Peter Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts
Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion
- Original Message - From: John Scrivner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 07:38:41 -0800 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion The bad thing about Google's wholesale push is this: We asked for bidding credits and CMA sized blocks in the upper and lower 700 MHz bands in the upcoming auction. If Google gets their way then the upper blocks will NOT be CMA sized and will have wholesale requirements attached. I can see some of the bigger players sidestepping the larger wholesale-crippled spectrum in order to outbid all of us in the lower CMA sized blocks. In those blocks there will likely be no wholesale requirements. End result? We cannot afford to outbid them and we lose a shot at these bands for our own use. I have never seen a wholesale model for a communications platform that worked. I doubt it will work this time either. I see this as a lose - lose for us if Google gets what they want. I hope I am wrong. Scriv Hi John, Yes indeed, big cash boys will be the driver in 700MHz side, sure wish it was designated for the WISP folks directly so that we could see some real innovation. If Google wins, the spectrum will be tied up for a long time with little on no use right away. Cheers, -Dee Alaska Wireless Systems 1(907)240-2183 Cell 1(907)349-2226 Fax 1(907)349-4308 Office www.akwireless.net Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Oh man. This from anyone in the cellular industry! sigh I do, however, agree with his point. Goggle could just do that if they win the spectrum. This is clearly an attempt to devalue the spectrum. Not that that's a bad thing. Clearly we've seen that the spectrum tax, oh excuse me, auction, is a market place failure as far as broadband goes. marlon - Original Message - From: Drew Lentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 6:24 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion Just to throw another log on, here's the CTIA's approach: WASHINGTON--(BUSINESS WIRE)--CTIA-The Wireless AssociationR President and CEO Steve Largent issued the following statement today in response to a letter from Google to the Federal Communications Commission asking for special conditions in the upcoming 700 MHz spectrum auction, and pledging to bid at least $4.6 billion for that spectrum if Google's conditions are met: The veil has been lifted. Google's letter to the FCC this morning highlights the Internet giant's scheme to have the 700 MHz auction rigged with special conditions in its favor. If Google is willing to commit almost $5 billion dollars for spectrum that it wants encumbered with various requirements, then let it win that spectrum in a competitive auction and choose that business model. Google and its allies, with their collective market capitalization approaching half a trillion dollars, don't need a government handout at taxpayers' expense. The competitive wireless industry welcomes all new entrants, but no company should be able to buy a custom-fit government regulation that suits their particular business plan. Consumers should decide if they're right, not the federal government. CTIA is the international association for the wireless telecommunications industry, representing carriers, manufacturers and wireless Internet providers. Drew Lentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Smith, Rick Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 7:21 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion Rumors of Embarq pulling fiber in NW NJ. I'm trying to figure this one out, since it's home for me :) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter R. Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 7:48 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion Smith, Rick wrote: I can tell you for a fact that Embarq and Verizon have 700 Mhz and FTTP on their radar BIG time. It's that whole battle vs. war thing... They're willing to get their heads handed to them 9 times because that 10th is their nuke... OK I've gotta throw away this devil's advocate hat... EMBARQ? Hesse said that he was betting on the DSL game. Where does Embarq do FTTx? VZ and ATT are spending the money for FTTx - but not in rural America. (Maybe that's where 700 comes in, but I think the 700 is going to be used for muni wi-fi and to enhance their cellular data services). - Peter Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your
Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion
I'm not sure who isn't listening to whom, but I've said more than once that Google is only bidding if the FCC sets up the auction requiring wholesale. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 11:03 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion Hi, Maybe you need to read my posts a little better... I think I have said it twice already, but I will say it again: I am not after Google, nor am I saying they are evil. What I am saying is there is a grand plan already in place with this 700mhz auction they are considering. They have the money and the means to do just about anything they want with it. We just need to keep our eyes open. The telco's already own a great deal of spectrum, so another 20mhz really isn't going to matter much. They don't know what they are doing, why would it change now? And, I'll say it again... The telco's don't scare me. Qwest offers $19.95 DSL packages right now... our cheapest wireless plan is $39.95, yet we continue to take people away from Qwest. Will I ever be as big as they are? No. But I will continue to pick up the people that HATE the telco and cableco, and that business alone will keep me in business for a long, long time. ;) We understand the phone company sold you DSL for twice what it sold to the customer... but again, why does that matter here? The day they started doing that was the same day you should have been installing wireless to all of your existing customers. We have had Qwest literally take a customer away from us while all three of us were conferenced on a call for support. That is against their company policy, especially when we called their safe line for ISP's. But there isn't a damn thing you can do about it, so you just move on. :) Travis Microserv Michael Erskine wrote: Ten years is a good run, Travis. I wish you would listen to what I post rather than figure out some smart response. You have whined and whined about Google, yet you feel that the ILECs are not a threat. Besides the fact that you won a legal battle or two, you have no reason not to appropriate the *facts*. Yet you choose not to do that. Ok, help yourself. Go tilt at the Google windmill but while you do that, maybe you will check six once in a while? Because 6 is FTTH and 700 MHz in the hands of the ILECs. You may not believe that, and I personally could give a RATZ hinderst parts one way or the other, but put it in your note book and come back to me in two years... There are a lot of folks here who will tell you that I am not often wrong ... even though they don't like me worth a damn. Choose your enemies however you want. Me, I think I will choose mine with a dash of common sense. -m- Travis Johnson wrote: I figured it out a long time ago wireless internet go around the big bad phone company... since 1997. :) Travis Microserv Michael Erskine wrote: Try filing a suit for taking your customers... :-\ You won't win that one. They have the same sort of pockets you fear in Google, except that they have already proven they will sell you DSL at twice the price they will offer retail... When we started reselling Verizon DSL we paid them whole sale because the FCC said that they had to let us buy at whole sale. Wholesale to us was $23.95. Retail to their customers was $14.95 with a one year commitment. Then the FCC decided that they did not have to let us buy at wholesale... You frigure it out. ;) -m- Travis Johnson wrote: I don't fear the ILEC's... they are regulated and can be easily sued. We have sued Qwest twice and won both times... once for slow delivery of new lines and another time for billing errors. Travis Microserv Michael J. Erskine wrote: Travis Johnson wrote: Yes, I remember the dark fiber... and so, the question remains, how much fiber did they buy? They are now bidding on 700mhz spectrum, and could connect everything back to their main datacenters with all the dark fiber they purchased previously. ;) And I never said they were Evil (which is funny that everyone is using that term when it is Google's company moto to Do no Evil)... all I am saying is we need to keep our eyes open and watch what is going on... if the telco's buy the 700mhz, nobody really cares... they will use it for cell phone or higher speed mobile services... No, They will use it to deliver broadband in direct competition to you. The telco's have figured out that their future rests in broadband and not POTS. but if Google buys it, they will offer internet service really, really cheap or for free. They are making BILLIONS of dollars profit every year without doing anything... They are organizing data. They are selling advertizing space. CBS does that. NBC does that. CNN does
Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion
Wholesale to yourself. :-p While not a great victory for us, any loss for the telcos is a victory for us. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 10:38 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion The bad thing about Google's wholesale push is this: We asked for bidding credits and CMA sized blocks in the upper and lower 700 MHz bands in the upcoming auction. If Google gets their way then the upper blocks will NOT be CMA sized and will have wholesale requirements attached. I can see some of the bigger players sidestepping the larger wholesale-crippled spectrum in order to outbid all of us in the lower CMA sized blocks. In those blocks there will likely be no wholesale requirements. End result? We cannot afford to outbid them and we lose a shot at these bands for our own use. I have never seen a wholesale model for a communications platform that worked. I doubt it will work this time either. I see this as a lose - lose for us if Google gets what they want. I hope I am wrong. Scriv Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Oh man. This from anyone in the cellular industry! sigh I do, however, agree with his point. Goggle could just do that if they win the spectrum. This is clearly an attempt to devalue the spectrum. Not that that's a bad thing. Clearly we've seen that the spectrum tax, oh excuse me, auction, is a market place failure as far as broadband goes. marlon - Original Message - From: Drew Lentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 6:24 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion Just to throw another log on, here's the CTIA's approach: WASHINGTON--(BUSINESS WIRE)--CTIA-The Wireless AssociationR President and CEO Steve Largent issued the following statement today in response to a letter from Google to the Federal Communications Commission asking for special conditions in the upcoming 700 MHz spectrum auction, and pledging to bid at least $4.6 billion for that spectrum if Google's conditions are met: The veil has been lifted. Google's letter to the FCC this morning highlights the Internet giant's scheme to have the 700 MHz auction rigged with special conditions in its favor. If Google is willing to commit almost $5 billion dollars for spectrum that it wants encumbered with various requirements, then let it win that spectrum in a competitive auction and choose that business model. Google and its allies, with their collective market capitalization approaching half a trillion dollars, don't need a government handout at taxpayers' expense. The competitive wireless industry welcomes all new entrants, but no company should be able to buy a custom-fit government regulation that suits their particular business plan. Consumers should decide if they're right, not the federal government. CTIA is the international association for the wireless telecommunications industry, representing carriers, manufacturers and wireless Internet providers. Drew Lentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Smith, Rick Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 7:21 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion Rumors of Embarq pulling fiber in NW NJ. I'm trying to figure this one out, since it's home for me :) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter R. Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 7:48 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion Smith, Rick wrote: I can tell you for a fact that Embarq and Verizon have 700 Mhz and FTTP on their radar BIG time. It's that whole battle vs. war thing... They're willing to get their heads handed to them 9 times because that 10th is their nuke... OK I've gotta throw away this devil's advocate hat... EMBARQ? Hesse said that he was betting on the DSL game. Where does Embarq do FTTx? VZ and ATT are spending the money for FTTx - but not in rural America. (Maybe that's where 700 comes in, but I think the 700 is going to be used for muni wi-fi and to enhance their cellular data services). - Peter Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http
Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion
W.D.McKinney wrote: If Google wins, the spectrum will be tied up for a long time with little on no use right away. I suspect most of Google's business plan here is get spectrum, lease spectrum, earn lots of money with little actual work, and in that case it's in their best interest to get a leasing program up and running quickly. Kinda makes me wish I had a few billion sitting around; it's a good plan if you can finance it. In the meantime, Google has some of the smartest cookies on this planet working for them, so getting lease operations going should be trivial for them. I'll concur that it'd be nice if there were some spectrum reserved for WISP use, but that apparently isn't meant to be. Google is probably the lesser evil in this case, given that our other choice is the telcos (we all know how fun they are to work with). David Smith MVN.net Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion
W.D.McKinney wrote: Yes indeed, big cash boys will be the driver in 700MHz side, sure wish it was designated for the WISP folks directly so that we could see some real innovation. If Google wins, the spectrum will be tied up for a long time with little on no use right away. Cheers, -Dee Alaska Wireless Systems You mean like all that deployed 2.x GHz spectrum that Sprint, MCI, ATT and BellSouth purchased WAY back when??? That they are only deploying now because it was a merger condition. Come on! If the auction is the same as always the Cellco's will buy it and do what they do - sit on it so that no one else can get in the ball game. They complain that no one builds facilities but then the FCC changes the rules on exclusive rights. Go figure. This is just another political positioning play. - Peter Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion
The leasing mechanism could be interesting. You would have to sell over a long period or with the right of first refusal on lease termination otherwise there would be no serious bidders if you are not guaranteed long term access to the spectrum. What would be really interesting would be if google bought the spectrum and then resold non-exclusive right to use so for $x/unit you can operate in that space with anyone else that is willing to buy at $x/unit. Not sure if the spectrum holder is allowed to do that or not... Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless David E. Smith wrote: W.D.McKinney wrote: If Google wins, the spectrum will be tied up for a long time with little on no use right away. I suspect most of Google's business plan here is get spectrum, lease spectrum, earn lots of money with little actual work, and in that case it's in their best interest to get a leasing program up and running quickly. Kinda makes me wish I had a few billion sitting around; it's a good plan if you can finance it. In the meantime, Google has some of the smartest cookies on this planet working for them, so getting lease operations going should be trivial for them. I'll concur that it'd be nice if there were some spectrum reserved for WISP use, but that apparently isn't meant to be. Google is probably the lesser evil in this case, given that our other choice is the telcos (we all know how fun they are to work with). David Smith MVN.net Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion
Could you imagine tech support on 4.1 million self installed CPEs? If every customer called once per year that would only be 11232 calls per day ;) Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless Travis Johnson wrote: Yes, I remember the dark fiber... and so, the question remains, how much fiber did they buy? They are now bidding on 700mhz spectrum, and could connect everything back to their main datacenters with all the dark fiber they purchased previously. ;) And I never said they were Evil (which is funny that everyone is using that term when it is Google's company moto to Do no Evil)... all I am saying is we need to keep our eyes open and watch what is going on... if the telco's buy the 700mhz, nobody really cares... they will use it for cell phone or higher speed mobile services... but if Google buys it, they will offer internet service really, really cheap or for free. They are making BILLIONS of dollars profit every year without doing anything... so they really have a lot of money they can throw at whatever they want. Let's run some quick numbers... just for the fun of it... 700mhz Access Point at roughly $2,000 each 700mhz CPE at roughly $200 each Let's use a 50:1 ratio of CPE to AP, so it would be $12,000 for each AP/CPE combo. They would be able to charge something for the CPE, so that money can be used for other tower expenses (UPS, switches, etc.). Using only their profit for a single MONTH, they could put up 83,000 access points and deliver 4.1 million CPE. They could, almost instantly, become the single largest ISP in the world. It just gets scary when you actually realize that a BILLION is one thousand MILLION dollars. Travis Microserv Peter R. wrote: Remember when Google was buying up dark fiber? It scared everyone. Now Google is going to bid on spectrum IF a bunch of conditions are met. Those conditions will NOT be met. (Have you forgotten who chairs the FCC?) So it is probably just a ploy. And if they DO win some spectrum, the rules will be that it has to be Wholesale - so anyone can sell on it. Google will be on top until they screw up. Like Yahoo. Like AltaVista. Like Excite. Like Lycos. Like Ask. They make money because they are the most used search engine. Not the best. The most used. So that is where advertising dollars go. It can change. It often does. BTW, Google will peer with you for free. SO if 44% of your bandwidth is for Google, they just saved you on IP bamdwidth costs. Anyone else doing that? I can't believe I am agreeing with Mike E. but I don't see them as any more evil than any other company. And having watched them try to do Muni Wi-Fi in their town. Going Nationwide? Not very likely. Travis are you the one who created his own Google Adwords home page to collect a check from Google for doing searches? I know what MAAWG is (http://www.maawg.org - do they actually DO anything?) but CEAS??? - Peter @ RAD-INFO Travis Johnson wrote: And thus you just hit the nail on the head... and it brings us back full circle to the original subject of this thread... Google is going to bid on 700mhz spectrum... billions of dollars... then, once they own it, they are going to start some type of wireless internet service using that spectrum... and then, they WILL be competing directly with all the ISP's. And, they will probably give the service away FREE, just like they do now with their WiFi service. Can you compete with FREE service, using 700mhz NLOS technology (meaning self-install, take the modem with you to work type service)? So, now who's your friend? They have a huge recurring income from the search engine, so they don't have to make a dime on other services... gmail, Google Earth, etc. are all examples. They will just add 700mhz wireless to the list of free things they provide. Travis Microserv Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know
Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion
4.1 million users, say 1/4 were paying 19.99. Thats 20.4 million. Assume each call takes 20 min to handle. I person can take 24 20 min calls in 8 hours, assuming no breaks. That would need 468 call support personnel. Someone correct me, but did not AOL release numbers that they had like 7 million dial-up users? At the time there was a discrepancy about the number due to non paying subs. It has been a long time and I might be remembering that wrong. How many customers do the top three cable companies have? What about Dell, Gateway, Compaq, Hp, et al? There is a reason call support is farmed out to India and such, its cheaper. Even at say, $8/hr thats 500x8x160 is 640K/mo or 7.68 million a year. I do not know the numbers, but I would bet they do not make $8USD/hr at a India call center. I think even at 1 million a month for a call center (US based, high pay, highly skilled, able communicators) thats 5% your income. And thats low income IMO for those 4.1 million people. What do you spend on tech support right now? On 7/22/07, Sam Tetherow [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Could you imagine tech support on 4.1 million self installed CPEs? If every customer called once per year that would only be 11232 calls per day ;) Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless Travis Johnson wrote: Yes, I remember the dark fiber... and so, the question remains, how much fiber did they buy? They are now bidding on 700mhz spectrum, and could connect everything back to their main datacenters with all the dark fiber they purchased previously. ;) And I never said they were Evil (which is funny that everyone is using that term when it is Google's company moto to Do no Evil)... all I am saying is we need to keep our eyes open and watch what is going on... if the telco's buy the 700mhz, nobody really cares... they will use it for cell phone or higher speed mobile services... but if Google buys it, they will offer internet service really, really cheap or for free. They are making BILLIONS of dollars profit every year without doing anything... so they really have a lot of money they can throw at whatever they want. Let's run some quick numbers... just for the fun of it... 700mhz Access Point at roughly $2,000 each 700mhz CPE at roughly $200 each Let's use a 50:1 ratio of CPE to AP, so it would be $12,000 for each AP/CPE combo. They would be able to charge something for the CPE, so that money can be used for other tower expenses (UPS, switches, etc.). Using only their profit for a single MONTH, they could put up 83,000 access points and deliver 4.1 million CPE. They could, almost instantly, become the single largest ISP in the world. It just gets scary when you actually realize that a BILLION is one thousand MILLION dollars. Travis Microserv Peter R. wrote: Remember when Google was buying up dark fiber? It scared everyone. Now Google is going to bid on spectrum IF a bunch of conditions are met. Those conditions will NOT be met. (Have you forgotten who chairs the FCC?) So it is probably just a ploy. And if they DO win some spectrum, the rules will be that it has to be Wholesale - so anyone can sell on it. Google will be on top until they screw up. Like Yahoo. Like AltaVista. Like Excite. Like Lycos. Like Ask. They make money because they are the most used search engine. Not the best. The most used. So that is where advertising dollars go. It can change. It often does. BTW, Google will peer with you for free. SO if 44% of your bandwidth is for Google, they just saved you on IP bamdwidth costs. Anyone else doing that? I can't believe I am agreeing with Mike E. but I don't see them as any more evil than any other company. And having watched them try to do Muni Wi-Fi in their town. Going Nationwide? Not very likely. Travis are you the one who created his own Google Adwords home page to collect a check from Google for doing searches? I know what MAAWG is (http://www.maawg.org - do they actually DO anything?) but CEAS??? - Peter @ RAD-INFO Travis Johnson wrote: And thus you just hit the nail on the head... and it brings us back full circle to the original subject of this thread... Google is going to bid on 700mhz spectrum... billions of dollars... then, once they own it, they are going to start some type of wireless internet service using that spectrum... and then, they WILL be competing directly with all the ISP's. And, they will probably give the service away FREE, just like they do now with their WiFi service. Can you compete with FREE service, using 700mhz NLOS technology (meaning self-install, take the modem with you to work type service)? So, now who's your friend? They have a huge recurring income from the search engine, so they don't have to make a dime on other services... gmail, Google Earth, etc. are all examples. They will just add 700mhz wireless to the list of free things they provide. Travis Microserv
Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion
Why? Because that's exactly what that document says. Google said they'll bid at least $4.6M if they get their way. They're showing the FCC that they will get money if they go with Google's plan. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2007 7:59 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion Yeah right. Google is gonna come up with 4.6 BILLION and THEN tell the FCC that they should have to force them to have a wholesale program? If they were THAT committed why not just buy the spectrum and offer the program anyway. Am I the ONLY cynic left in this group? grin marlon - Original Message - From: Drew Lentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 10:58 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion That is wonderful news if you ask me! Drew Lentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 12:24 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion http://64.233.179.110/blog_resources/Google_Ex_Parte_Letter_Signed.pdf Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 [EMAIL PROTECTED] This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(84). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses. Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion
An idea I just came up with is that perhaps it is part of a big FU to the telecoms. They wanted to be able to charge more to access things that weren't on their buddy list and if you didn't pony up, you got a reduced speed. Google could be doing this to ensure that they have a last mile access and then wage war on the telecoms for trying to screw them. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2007 11:19 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion There has to be more to the everyone can use it stuff... Google is going to spend 4.6 Billion and then just let anyone that wants to use it for free? Or comparing to the modem stuff, you had to connect to a specific ISP (by dialing that number). Are there going to be multiple ISP's in the same area on the same 700mhz area? Google is in this to make money... either by selling the service cheap and going for very large quantities, or giving it away for free and maybe making the default homepage www.google.com. They have lots of options... but they aren't going to drop 4.6 Billion without some plan on how to make it back and then some. Travis Microserv Michael Erskine wrote: Travis Johnson wrote: And thus you just hit the nail on the head... and it brings us back full circle to the original subject of this thread... Google is going to bid on 700mhz spectrum... billions of dollars... then, once they own it, they are going to start some type of wireless internet service using that spectrum... and then, they WILL be competing directly with all the ISP's. And, they will probably give the service away FREE, just like they do now with their WiFi service. Can you compete with FREE service, using 700mhz NLOS technology (meaning self-install, take the modem with you to work type service)? I think they probably will sell the service. Their argument is that it should be an OPEN service, meaning that anyone's devices have to work with it. Kind of like, modems back in the day. Any modem could connect to a Cisco RAS server and anyone could own a RAS server if he had a line. Google seems to be saying that the rules for the spectrum should allow anyone to build a device which will work on the spectrum *AND* anyone who licenses the spectrum will have to honor such a device. Those rules are a heck of a lot more fair than the rules currently being discussed. So, now who's your friend? They have a huge recurring income from the search engine, so they don't have to make a dime on other services... gmail, Google Earth, etc. are all examples. They will just add 700mhz wireless to the list of free things they provide. Travis, Google is not the Evil Empire... Why do you think they are? They have a recurring income from the world's best search engine. Why is that a problem? Google Earth is a problem, why? Check out Microsoft selling you www.terraserver.com. Yep, they are reselling you the data that your tax dollars bought in the first place... That is why I use www.terraserver-usa.com, the site they are required by law to support. Slower, but it works. I don't know why you are afraid of Google. I don't think they are coming to a town near you. Maybe they will come to your town to *buy you out*, but they probably won't come to your town to crush your business... Verizon will. Michael: Hello, yes, the lady at Verizon told me that there was nothing you could do about the problems we are having with their DSL service, the one we are reselling, yes. Lady at FCC: Well, sadly she is correct. Unless the quality of service is the problem, we can not help you. I don't know Travis, but it looks to me like you have a great life. Why worry yourself over Google's market share? -m- Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion
There are already companies out there doing self installed CPEs successfully. It would be no different than setting up a TV set for OTA reception. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Sam Tetherow [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 1:37 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion Could you imagine tech support on 4.1 million self installed CPEs? If every customer called once per year that would only be 11232 calls per day ;) Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless Travis Johnson wrote: Yes, I remember the dark fiber... and so, the question remains, how much fiber did they buy? They are now bidding on 700mhz spectrum, and could connect everything back to their main datacenters with all the dark fiber they purchased previously. ;) And I never said they were Evil (which is funny that everyone is using that term when it is Google's company moto to Do no Evil)... all I am saying is we need to keep our eyes open and watch what is going on... if the telco's buy the 700mhz, nobody really cares... they will use it for cell phone or higher speed mobile services... but if Google buys it, they will offer internet service really, really cheap or for free. They are making BILLIONS of dollars profit every year without doing anything... so they really have a lot of money they can throw at whatever they want. Let's run some quick numbers... just for the fun of it... 700mhz Access Point at roughly $2,000 each 700mhz CPE at roughly $200 each Let's use a 50:1 ratio of CPE to AP, so it would be $12,000 for each AP/CPE combo. They would be able to charge something for the CPE, so that money can be used for other tower expenses (UPS, switches, etc.). Using only their profit for a single MONTH, they could put up 83,000 access points and deliver 4.1 million CPE. They could, almost instantly, become the single largest ISP in the world. It just gets scary when you actually realize that a BILLION is one thousand MILLION dollars. Travis Microserv Peter R. wrote: Remember when Google was buying up dark fiber? It scared everyone. Now Google is going to bid on spectrum IF a bunch of conditions are met. Those conditions will NOT be met. (Have you forgotten who chairs the FCC?) So it is probably just a ploy. And if they DO win some spectrum, the rules will be that it has to be Wholesale - so anyone can sell on it. Google will be on top until they screw up. Like Yahoo. Like AltaVista. Like Excite. Like Lycos. Like Ask. They make money because they are the most used search engine. Not the best. The most used. So that is where advertising dollars go. It can change. It often does. BTW, Google will peer with you for free. SO if 44% of your bandwidth is for Google, they just saved you on IP bamdwidth costs. Anyone else doing that? I can't believe I am agreeing with Mike E. but I don't see them as any more evil than any other company. And having watched them try to do Muni Wi-Fi in their town. Going Nationwide? Not very likely. Travis are you the one who created his own Google Adwords home page to collect a check from Google for doing searches? I know what MAAWG is (http://www.maawg.org - do they actually DO anything?) but CEAS??? - Peter @ RAD-INFO Travis Johnson wrote: And thus you just hit the nail on the head... and it brings us back full circle to the original subject of this thread... Google is going to bid on 700mhz spectrum... billions of dollars... then, once they own it, they are going to start some type of wireless internet service using that spectrum... and then, they WILL be competing directly with all the ISP's. And, they will probably give the service away FREE, just like they do now with their WiFi service. Can you compete with FREE service, using 700mhz NLOS technology (meaning self-install, take the modem with you to work type service)? So, now who's your friend? They have a huge recurring income from the search engine, so they don't have to make a dime on other services... gmail, Google Earth, etc. are all examples. They will just add 700mhz wireless to the list of free things they provide. Travis Microserv Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under
Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion
I thought AOL had 30 million+ users. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Jeromie Reeves [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 9:02 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion 4.1 million users, say 1/4 were paying 19.99. Thats 20.4 million. Assume each call takes 20 min to handle. I person can take 24 20 min calls in 8 hours, assuming no breaks. That would need 468 call support personnel. Someone correct me, but did not AOL release numbers that they had like 7 million dial-up users? At the time there was a discrepancy about the number due to non paying subs. It has been a long time and I might be remembering that wrong. How many customers do the top three cable companies have? What about Dell, Gateway, Compaq, Hp, et al? There is a reason call support is farmed out to India and such, its cheaper. Even at say, $8/hr thats 500x8x160 is 640K/mo or 7.68 million a year. I do not know the numbers, but I would bet they do not make $8USD/hr at a India call center. I think even at 1 million a month for a call center (US based, high pay, highly skilled, able communicators) thats 5% your income. And thats low income IMO for those 4.1 million people. What do you spend on tech support right now? On 7/22/07, Sam Tetherow [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Could you imagine tech support on 4.1 million self installed CPEs? If every customer called once per year that would only be 11232 calls per day ;) Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless Travis Johnson wrote: Yes, I remember the dark fiber... and so, the question remains, how much fiber did they buy? They are now bidding on 700mhz spectrum, and could connect everything back to their main datacenters with all the dark fiber they purchased previously. ;) And I never said they were Evil (which is funny that everyone is using that term when it is Google's company moto to Do no Evil)... all I am saying is we need to keep our eyes open and watch what is going on... if the telco's buy the 700mhz, nobody really cares... they will use it for cell phone or higher speed mobile services... but if Google buys it, they will offer internet service really, really cheap or for free. They are making BILLIONS of dollars profit every year without doing anything... so they really have a lot of money they can throw at whatever they want. Let's run some quick numbers... just for the fun of it... 700mhz Access Point at roughly $2,000 each 700mhz CPE at roughly $200 each Let's use a 50:1 ratio of CPE to AP, so it would be $12,000 for each AP/CPE combo. They would be able to charge something for the CPE, so that money can be used for other tower expenses (UPS, switches, etc.). Using only their profit for a single MONTH, they could put up 83,000 access points and deliver 4.1 million CPE. They could, almost instantly, become the single largest ISP in the world. It just gets scary when you actually realize that a BILLION is one thousand MILLION dollars. Travis Microserv Peter R. wrote: Remember when Google was buying up dark fiber? It scared everyone. Now Google is going to bid on spectrum IF a bunch of conditions are met. Those conditions will NOT be met. (Have you forgotten who chairs the FCC?) So it is probably just a ploy. And if they DO win some spectrum, the rules will be that it has to be Wholesale - so anyone can sell on it. Google will be on top until they screw up. Like Yahoo. Like AltaVista. Like Excite. Like Lycos. Like Ask. They make money because they are the most used search engine. Not the best. The most used. So that is where advertising dollars go. It can change. It often does. BTW, Google will peer with you for free. SO if 44% of your bandwidth is for Google, they just saved you on IP bamdwidth costs. Anyone else doing that? I can't believe I am agreeing with Mike E. but I don't see them as any more evil than any other company. And having watched them try to do Muni Wi-Fi in their town. Going Nationwide? Not very likely. Travis are you the one who created his own Google Adwords home page to collect a check from Google for doing searches? I know what MAAWG is (http://www.maawg.org - do they actually DO anything?) but CEAS??? - Peter @ RAD-INFO Travis Johnson wrote: And thus you just hit the nail on the head... and it brings us back full circle to the original subject of this thread... Google is going to bid on 700mhz spectrum... billions of dollars... then, once they own it, they are going to start some type of wireless internet service using that spectrum... and then, they WILL be competing directly with all the ISP's. And, they will probably give the service away FREE, just like they do now with their WiFi service. Can you compete with FREE service, using 700mhz NLOS technology (meaning self-install, take the modem with you to work
Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion
I agree Google is not evil. Goodle does however have the marketing, eyeball count, and vision, to drive astronomical huge increases in bandwdith need for users, and sell it for pennies on the dollar of what it should be sold at, to fund the network expansion to support it. WISP technology does not have the capacity, and WISPs don;t have the financing to grow with it at the same rate as it can be deployed. All it takes is for Google to launch some consumer targeted killer app, that they must have, and there goes the served residential market to the Cable companies and FIOS. And there goes out the window competition and procider choice for consumers. That does not make Google bad, just a threat to the existing industry. Personally, I think Google should use that 4.5 Billion differently. To develop a fund for independant WISPs, or possibly to start rolling them up. With of course provisions to protect the ongoing use of Google, and promote the upgrades to handle Google's future needs. This industry could be changed overnight, if Google dollars were behind WISPs' talent. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Peter R. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2007 9:20 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion Remember when Google was buying up dark fiber? It scared everyone. Now Google is going to bid on spectrum IF a bunch of conditions are met. Those conditions will NOT be met. (Have you forgotten who chairs the FCC?) So it is probably just a ploy. And if they DO win some spectrum, the rules will be that it has to be Wholesale - so anyone can sell on it. Google will be on top until they screw up. Like Yahoo. Like AltaVista. Like Excite. Like Lycos. Like Ask. They make money because they are the most used search engine. Not the best. The most used. So that is where advertising dollars go. It can change. It often does. BTW, Google will peer with you for free. SO if 44% of your bandwidth is for Google, they just saved you on IP bamdwidth costs. Anyone else doing that? I can't believe I am agreeing with Mike E. but I don't see them as any more evil than any other company. And having watched them try to do Muni Wi-Fi in their town. Going Nationwide? Not very likely. Travis are you the one who created his own Google Adwords home page to collect a check from Google for doing searches? I know what MAAWG is (http://www.maawg.org - do they actually DO anything?) but CEAS??? - Peter @ RAD-INFO Travis Johnson wrote: And thus you just hit the nail on the head... and it brings us back full circle to the original subject of this thread... Google is going to bid on 700mhz spectrum... billions of dollars... then, once they own it, they are going to start some type of wireless internet service using that spectrum... and then, they WILL be competing directly with all the ISP's. And, they will probably give the service away FREE, just like they do now with their WiFi service. Can you compete with FREE service, using 700mhz NLOS technology (meaning self-install, take the modem with you to work type service)? So, now who's your friend? They have a huge recurring income from the search engine, so they don't have to make a dime on other services... gmail, Google Earth, etc. are all examples. They will just add 700mhz wireless to the list of free things they provide. Travis Microserv Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.9.6/865 - Release Date: 6/24/2007 8:33 AM Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion
Although, its smart to ask those questions, and keep a midful eye open for posibilities and threats... Can you compete with FREE service, using 700mhz NLOS technology (meaning self-install, take the modem with you to work type service)? Yes. Becaues the 700Mhz spectrum being auctioned is less than 20Mhz worth of spectrum. Could you image trying to operate your WISP, will all omnis? or only Two sectors? Or really small channel sectors? 700Mhz providers aren't going to be able to provide truely HI SPEED services. They are going to be able to deploy low speed mobile services for rural areas. Are WISPs doing that now? Not really. I look at that as competition to Cell Phone providers' edge and evdo. I will add that Google being added to the bidder's list, will make it harder for WISPs to win auctions. Googles interest in rural markets will get LECs more seriously also looking at thsoe markets, likely raising the low bid. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2007 2:23 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion And thus you just hit the nail on the head... and it brings us back full circle to the original subject of this thread... Google is going to bid on 700mhz spectrum... billions of dollars... then, once they own it, they are going to start some type of wireless internet service using that spectrum... and then, they WILL be competing directly with all the ISP's. And, they will probably give the service away FREE, just like they do now with their WiFi service. Can you compete with FREE service, using 700mhz NLOS technology (meaning self-install, take the modem with you to work type service)? So, now who's your friend? They have a huge recurring income from the search engine, so they don't have to make a dime on other services... gmail, Google Earth, etc. are all examples. They will just add 700mhz wireless to the list of free things they provide. Travis Microserv Michael Erskine wrote: Travis Johnson wrote: I'm not sure what the hell your problem is, but you really need to get a grip. I started in the internet space in 1994... back before Google or even Altavista... back when there were no real search engines to speak of... and now today, Google's search is used by 44% of ALL internet searches... so, whether you believe it or not, they CAN control what searches are displayed for 44% of the internet that's only about 600 million people. 1) I took you to be a young man from the start. I wrote machine language on a Commodore 64 in 1983 while I was studying Computer Science but I sat down to my first main frame keyboard in 1972. 2) 44% is not a majority, last time I looked. 3) They are not the evil empire, honest... :P They are just another company making a living. Postini does SPAM blocking and filtering for a very large percentage of the internet today... we have been using them for almost 4 years. Large corporations (Apple, Sun, and others) also use them. So, once again, with Google buying Postini, they can control a _very_ large percentage of what emails get thru and don't get thru. Well you see, I've never felt the need to have someone else manage my mail servers... That means that I can't relate to your problem. Mind you I don't believe your problem is anything but paranoia, but I could be wrong. Google could be the evil empire and they might want to prevent me from getting my E-Mail... Maybe ... NAWH! Prolly not! :) Sounds like you are prepared to have Google control the internet for you rather than some ILEC that can really never have control... but some of us are not. Some of us helped get the internet where it is today because it was open and not controlled. You really need to open your eyes and take a look around... Google is becoming the Microsoft of internet space. Gee, Google never did lobby the FCC to get permission to wholesale DSL to us for $24.95 per month, while they retailed the same lines to our customers at $15.95 per month. Verizon did. Friend, you need to figure out who your allies are and who wants to crush you... Google has no interest in crushing Travis Johnson... The ILEC's do have an interest in crushing your business because you and they are in the same business space now. Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. Would you like to see
Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion
Google is becoming the Microsoft of internet space. Yes they are. But not by choice. They are doing it because of fear of net Neutrality not being forced. TimeWarner, Microsoft, EarthLink, Comcast, Verizon, etc, etc, all own their own content and pipe. Google leveraged the capacity of the 7000 independent ISPs to accellerate their dominance. But the Independant ISP is a dying breed. They are at disadvantage if they can re-secure a new growing pipe for their clients. I'm not certain that Google has feet on the street in all the towns across America, as needed to be an Broadband Pipe Provider. Its much easier for them to make money, sitting in their San Jose Office, using the power of the existing Internet and their distributed data centers to reach customers and deliver services. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2007 12:07 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion I'm not sure what the hell your problem is, but you really need to get a grip. I started in the internet space in 1994... back before Google or even Altavista... back when there were no real search engines to speak of... and now today, Google's search is used by 44% of ALL internet searches... so, whether you believe it or not, they CAN control what searches are displayed for 44% of the internet that's only about 600 million people. Postini does SPAM blocking and filtering for a very large percentage of the internet today... we have been using them for almost 4 years. Large corporations (Apple, Sun, and others) also use them. So, once again, with Google buying Postini, they can control a _very_ large percentage of what emails get thru and don't get thru. Sounds like you are prepared to have Google control the internet for you rather than some ILEC that can really never have control... but some of us are not. Some of us helped get the internet where it is today because it was open and not controlled. You really need to open your eyes and take a look around... Google is becoming the Microsoft of internet space. Travis Microserv Michael Erskine wrote: Travis Johnson wrote: Google is quietly and methodically taking control of the internet. They already control what results we see on a search... No they don't... Once upon a time there was CERN's search engine and then there was Altavista, and then there was Yahoo, and then there was MSN, and Google. So you see, Google does not control what results we see on a search, if we but realize that there are other search engines. Mr. Jeeve's? and with the purchase of Postini, they will be able to control what emails we actually receive. And now they are bidding on wireless spectrum. OMG. They are going to control what E-Mail's we receive? Will that help with the spam problem? LoL dude. Nobody can control what E-Mail's you receive but your mail host and sadly it can only do so much. They are just slowly taking over little pieces of the net... bit by bit... :( Yeah, bad! evil! Google! Fighting for net neutrality against all those nicey nice ILECs who have nothing but our own best interests at heart. :) Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.9.6/865 - Release Date: 6/24/2007 8:33 AM Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman
Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion
It sounds like Google will only bid if they get their way, which is the complete opposite of what the telcos want to do. I don't see them bidding against each other. I agree that 20 MHz doesn't get you much. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 1:10 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion Although, its smart to ask those questions, and keep a midful eye open for posibilities and threats... Can you compete with FREE service, using 700mhz NLOS technology (meaning self-install, take the modem with you to work type service)? Yes. Becaues the 700Mhz spectrum being auctioned is less than 20Mhz worth of spectrum. Could you image trying to operate your WISP, will all omnis? or only Two sectors? Or really small channel sectors? 700Mhz providers aren't going to be able to provide truely HI SPEED services. They are going to be able to deploy low speed mobile services for rural areas. Are WISPs doing that now? Not really. I look at that as competition to Cell Phone providers' edge and evdo. I will add that Google being added to the bidder's list, will make it harder for WISPs to win auctions. Googles interest in rural markets will get LECs more seriously also looking at thsoe markets, likely raising the low bid. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2007 2:23 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion And thus you just hit the nail on the head... and it brings us back full circle to the original subject of this thread... Google is going to bid on 700mhz spectrum... billions of dollars... then, once they own it, they are going to start some type of wireless internet service using that spectrum... and then, they WILL be competing directly with all the ISP's. And, they will probably give the service away FREE, just like they do now with their WiFi service. Can you compete with FREE service, using 700mhz NLOS technology (meaning self-install, take the modem with you to work type service)? So, now who's your friend? They have a huge recurring income from the search engine, so they don't have to make a dime on other services... gmail, Google Earth, etc. are all examples. They will just add 700mhz wireless to the list of free things they provide. Travis Microserv Michael Erskine wrote: Travis Johnson wrote: I'm not sure what the hell your problem is, but you really need to get a grip. I started in the internet space in 1994... back before Google or even Altavista... back when there were no real search engines to speak of... and now today, Google's search is used by 44% of ALL internet searches... so, whether you believe it or not, they CAN control what searches are displayed for 44% of the internet that's only about 600 million people. 1) I took you to be a young man from the start. I wrote machine language on a Commodore 64 in 1983 while I was studying Computer Science but I sat down to my first main frame keyboard in 1972. 2) 44% is not a majority, last time I looked. 3) They are not the evil empire, honest... :P They are just another company making a living. Postini does SPAM blocking and filtering for a very large percentage of the internet today... we have been using them for almost 4 years. Large corporations (Apple, Sun, and others) also use them. So, once again, with Google buying Postini, they can control a _very_ large percentage of what emails get thru and don't get thru. Well you see, I've never felt the need to have someone else manage my mail servers... That means that I can't relate to your problem. Mind you I don't believe your problem is anything but paranoia, but I could be wrong. Google could be the evil empire and they might want to prevent me from getting my E-Mail... Maybe ... NAWH! Prolly not! :) Sounds like you are prepared to have Google control the internet for you rather than some ILEC that can really never have control... but some of us are not. Some of us helped get the internet where it is today because it was open and not controlled. You really need to open your eyes and take a look around... Google is becoming the Microsoft of internet space. Gee, Google never did lobby the FCC to get permission to wholesale DSL to us for $24.95 per month, while they retailed the same lines to our customers at $15.95 per month. Verizon did. Friend, you need to figure out who your allies are and who wants to crush you... Google has no interest in crushing Travis Johnson... The ILEC's do have an interest in crushing your business because you and they are in the same business space now
Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion
I can see getting 3 or 4 AP's on a site if everything is GPS synced with 10mhz channels. I agree this is more a cell phone killer then a wisp killer (read my post a bit back for my view on likely devices). And if it goes Google's way then its just the tip. There is a fair bit of spectrum from 600 to 1ghz that could find its way open if this works out. If a device can be put online cheaply some one will do it and some one will buy it. On 7/23/07, Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It sounds like Google will only bid if they get their way, which is the complete opposite of what the telcos want to do. I don't see them bidding against each other. I agree that 20 MHz doesn't get you much. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 1:10 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion Although, its smart to ask those questions, and keep a midful eye open for posibilities and threats... Can you compete with FREE service, using 700mhz NLOS technology (meaning self-install, take the modem with you to work type service)? Yes. Becaues the 700Mhz spectrum being auctioned is less than 20Mhz worth of spectrum. Could you image trying to operate your WISP, will all omnis? or only Two sectors? Or really small channel sectors? 700Mhz providers aren't going to be able to provide truely HI SPEED services. They are going to be able to deploy low speed mobile services for rural areas. Are WISPs doing that now? Not really. I look at that as competition to Cell Phone providers' edge and evdo. I will add that Google being added to the bidder's list, will make it harder for WISPs to win auctions. Googles interest in rural markets will get LECs more seriously also looking at thsoe markets, likely raising the low bid. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2007 2:23 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion And thus you just hit the nail on the head... and it brings us back full circle to the original subject of this thread... Google is going to bid on 700mhz spectrum... billions of dollars... then, once they own it, they are going to start some type of wireless internet service using that spectrum... and then, they WILL be competing directly with all the ISP's. And, they will probably give the service away FREE, just like they do now with their WiFi service. Can you compete with FREE service, using 700mhz NLOS technology (meaning self-install, take the modem with you to work type service)? So, now who's your friend? They have a huge recurring income from the search engine, so they don't have to make a dime on other services... gmail, Google Earth, etc. are all examples. They will just add 700mhz wireless to the list of free things they provide. Travis Microserv Michael Erskine wrote: Travis Johnson wrote: I'm not sure what the hell your problem is, but you really need to get a grip. I started in the internet space in 1994... back before Google or even Altavista... back when there were no real search engines to speak of... and now today, Google's search is used by 44% of ALL internet searches... so, whether you believe it or not, they CAN control what searches are displayed for 44% of the internet that's only about 600 million people. 1) I took you to be a young man from the start. I wrote machine language on a Commodore 64 in 1983 while I was studying Computer Science but I sat down to my first main frame keyboard in 1972. 2) 44% is not a majority, last time I looked. 3) They are not the evil empire, honest... :P They are just another company making a living. Postini does SPAM blocking and filtering for a very large percentage of the internet today... we have been using them for almost 4 years. Large corporations (Apple, Sun, and others) also use them. So, once again, with Google buying Postini, they can control a _very_ large percentage of what emails get thru and don't get thru. Well you see, I've never felt the need to have someone else manage my mail servers... That means that I can't relate to your problem. Mind you I don't believe your problem is anything but paranoia, but I could be wrong. Google could be the evil empire and they might want to prevent me from getting my E-Mail... Maybe ... NAWH! Prolly not! :) Sounds like you are prepared to have Google control the internet for you rather than some ILEC that can really never have control... but some of us are not. Some of us helped get the internet where it is today because it was open and not controlled. You really need to open your eyes and take a look around
Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion
Travis Johnson wrote: Yes, I remember the dark fiber... and so, the question remains, how much fiber did they buy? They are now bidding on 700mhz spectrum, and could connect everything back to their main datacenters with all the dark fiber they purchased previously. ;) And I never said they were Evil (which is funny that everyone is using that term when it is Google's company moto to Do no Evil)... all I am saying is we need to keep our eyes open and watch what is going on... if the telco's buy the 700mhz, nobody really cares... they will use it for cell phone or higher speed mobile services... No, They will use it to deliver broadband in direct competition to you. The telco's have figured out that their future rests in broadband and not POTS. but if Google buys it, they will offer internet service really, really cheap or for free. They are making BILLIONS of dollars profit every year without doing anything... They are organizing data. They are selling advertizing space. CBS does that. NBC does that. CNN does that. It is not nothing. so they really have a lot of money they can throw at whatever they want. Good. I am all for competitors to the ILECs and I sincerely hope that Google gets some of that spectrum and offers the public a third option... Let's run some quick numbers... just for the fun of it... 700mhz Access Point at roughly $2,000 each 700mhz CPE at roughly $200 each Let's use a 50:1 ratio of CPE to AP, so it would be $12,000 for each AP/CPE combo. They would be able to charge something for the CPE, so that money can be used for other tower expenses (UPS, switches, etc.). Using only their profit for a single MONTH, they could put up 83,000 access points and deliver 4.1 million CPE. They could, almost instantly, become the single largest ISP in the world. Hey, and that would really level the playing field with the big boys, wouldn't it? It just gets scary when you actually realize that a BILLION is one thousand MILLION dollars. Yes but investors are investors, aren't they? Investors are often hesitant to let a company explore new territory. They would not be allowed to drop all their eggs in that one basket and they could not put the infrastructure in place that fast either. If you are looking for something to fear, fear the ILECs. Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion
Mike Hammett wrote: An idea I just came up with is that perhaps it is part of a big FU to the telecoms. They wanted to be able to charge more to access things that weren't on their buddy list and if you didn't pony up, you got a reduced speed. Google could be doing this to ensure that they have a last mile access and then wage war on the telecoms for trying to screw them. Exactly... I thought that was obvious from the start. This is their response to Network Neutrality as defined by Verizon, ATT and the other carriers. If you want neutrality *buy* it. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2007 11:19 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion There has to be more to the everyone can use it stuff... Google is going to spend 4.6 Billion and then just let anyone that wants to use it for free? Or comparing to the modem stuff, you had to connect to a specific ISP (by dialing that number). Are there going to be multiple ISP's in the same area on the same 700mhz area? Google is in this to make money... either by selling the service cheap and going for very large quantities, or giving it away for free and maybe making the default homepage www.google.com. They have lots of options... but they aren't going to drop 4.6 Billion without some plan on how to make it back and then some. Travis Microserv Michael Erskine wrote: Travis Johnson wrote: And thus you just hit the nail on the head... and it brings us back full circle to the original subject of this thread... Google is going to bid on 700mhz spectrum... billions of dollars... then, once they own it, they are going to start some type of wireless internet service using that spectrum... and then, they WILL be competing directly with all the ISP's. And, they will probably give the service away FREE, just like they do now with their WiFi service. Can you compete with FREE service, using 700mhz NLOS technology (meaning self-install, take the modem with you to work type service)? I think they probably will sell the service. Their argument is that it should be an OPEN service, meaning that anyone's devices have to work with it. Kind of like, modems back in the day. Any modem could connect to a Cisco RAS server and anyone could own a RAS server if he had a line. Google seems to be saying that the rules for the spectrum should allow anyone to build a device which will work on the spectrum *AND* anyone who licenses the spectrum will have to honor such a device. Those rules are a heck of a lot more fair than the rules currently being discussed. So, now who's your friend? They have a huge recurring income from the search engine, so they don't have to make a dime on other services... gmail, Google Earth, etc. are all examples. They will just add 700mhz wireless to the list of free things they provide. Travis, Google is not the Evil Empire... Why do you think they are? They have a recurring income from the world's best search engine. Why is that a problem? Google Earth is a problem, why? Check out Microsoft selling you www.terraserver.com. Yep, they are reselling you the data that your tax dollars bought in the first place... That is why I use www.terraserver-usa.com, the site they are required by law to support. Slower, but it works. I don't know why you are afraid of Google. I don't think they are coming to a town near you. Maybe they will come to your town to *buy you out*, but they probably won't come to your town to crush your business... Verizon will. Michael: Hello, yes, the lady at Verizon told me that there was nothing you could do about the problems we are having with their DSL service, the one we are reselling, yes. Lady at FCC: Well, sadly she is correct. Unless the quality of service is the problem, we can not help you. I don't know Travis, but it looks to me like you have a great life. Why worry yourself over Google's market share? -m- Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA
Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion
I don't fear the ILEC's... they are regulated and can be easily sued. We have sued Qwest twice and won both times... once for slow delivery of new lines and another time for billing errors. Travis Microserv Michael J. Erskine wrote: Travis Johnson wrote: Yes, I remember the dark fiber... and so, the question remains, how much fiber did they buy? They are now bidding on 700mhz spectrum, and could connect everything back to their main datacenters with all the dark fiber they purchased previously. ;) And I never said they were Evil (which is funny that everyone is using that term when it is Google's company moto to Do no Evil)... all I am saying is we need to keep our eyes open and watch what is going on... if the telco's buy the 700mhz, nobody really cares... they will use it for cell phone or higher speed mobile services... No, They will use it to deliver broadband in direct competition to you. The telco's have figured out that their future rests in broadband and not POTS. but if Google buys it, they will offer internet service really, really cheap or for free. They are making BILLIONS of dollars profit every year without doing anything... They are organizing data. They are selling advertizing space. CBS does that. NBC does that. CNN does that. It is not nothing. so they really have a lot of money they can throw at whatever they want. Good. I am all for competitors to the ILECs and I sincerely hope that Google gets some of that spectrum and offers the public a third option... Let's run some quick numbers... just for the fun of it... 700mhz Access Point at roughly $2,000 each 700mhz CPE at roughly $200 each Let's use a 50:1 ratio of CPE to AP, so it would be $12,000 for each AP/CPE combo. They would be able to charge something for the CPE, so that money can be used for other tower expenses (UPS, switches, etc.). Using only their profit for a single MONTH, they could put up 83,000 access points and deliver 4.1 million CPE. They could, almost instantly, become the single largest ISP in the world. Hey, and that would really level the playing field with the big boys, wouldn't it? It just gets scary when you actually realize that a BILLION is one thousand MILLION dollars. Yes but investors are investors, aren't they? Investors are often hesitant to let a company explore new territory. They would not be allowed to drop all their eggs in that one basket and they could not put the infrastructure in place that fast either. If you are looking for something to fear, fear the ILECs. Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion
Do you guys really think that Google wants to build out a nationwide wireless network? It's CORE business is search. It needs to focus on that. It's other core is advertising. It has DoubleClick now too (probably). You think it can spend not the meoney but the resources and focus on wireless? Regards, Peter @ RAD-INFO, Inc. Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion
No. I think they want to wholesale it to us or the new us. That's part of their published comments. They want to seen it wholesaled to other players. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Peter R. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 9:02 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion Do you guys really think that Google wants to build out a nationwide wireless network? It's CORE business is search. It needs to focus on that. It's other core is advertising. It has DoubleClick now too (probably). You think it can spend not the meoney but the resources and focus on wireless? Regards, Peter @ RAD-INFO, Inc. Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion
Try filing a suit for taking your customers... :-\ You won't win that one. They have the same sort of pockets you fear in Google, except that they have already proven they will sell you DSL at twice the price they will offer retail... When we started reselling Verizon DSL we paid them whole sale because the FCC said that they had to let us buy at whole sale. Wholesale to us was $23.95. Retail to their customers was $14.95 with a one year commitment. Then the FCC decided that they did not have to let us buy at wholesale... You frigure it out. ;) -m- Travis Johnson wrote: I don't fear the ILEC's... they are regulated and can be easily sued. We have sued Qwest twice and won both times... once for slow delivery of new lines and another time for billing errors. Travis Microserv Michael J. Erskine wrote: Travis Johnson wrote: Yes, I remember the dark fiber... and so, the question remains, how much fiber did they buy? They are now bidding on 700mhz spectrum, and could connect everything back to their main datacenters with all the dark fiber they purchased previously. ;) And I never said they were Evil (which is funny that everyone is using that term when it is Google's company moto to Do no Evil)... all I am saying is we need to keep our eyes open and watch what is going on... if the telco's buy the 700mhz, nobody really cares... they will use it for cell phone or higher speed mobile services... No, They will use it to deliver broadband in direct competition to you. The telco's have figured out that their future rests in broadband and not POTS. but if Google buys it, they will offer internet service really, really cheap or for free. They are making BILLIONS of dollars profit every year without doing anything... They are organizing data. They are selling advertizing space. CBS does that. NBC does that. CNN does that. It is not nothing. so they really have a lot of money they can throw at whatever they want. Good. I am all for competitors to the ILECs and I sincerely hope that Google gets some of that spectrum and offers the public a third option... Let's run some quick numbers... just for the fun of it... 700mhz Access Point at roughly $2,000 each 700mhz CPE at roughly $200 each Let's use a 50:1 ratio of CPE to AP, so it would be $12,000 for each AP/CPE combo. They would be able to charge something for the CPE, so that money can be used for other tower expenses (UPS, switches, etc.). Using only their profit for a single MONTH, they could put up 83,000 access points and deliver 4.1 million CPE. They could, almost instantly, become the single largest ISP in the world. Hey, and that would really level the playing field with the big boys, wouldn't it? It just gets scary when you actually realize that a BILLION is one thousand MILLION dollars. Yes but investors are investors, aren't they? Investors are often hesitant to let a company explore new territory. They would not be allowed to drop all their eggs in that one basket and they could not put the infrastructure in place that fast either. If you are looking for something to fear, fear the ILECs. Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion
I figured it out a long time ago wireless internet go around the big bad phone company... since 1997. :) Travis Microserv Michael Erskine wrote: Try filing a suit for taking your customers... :-\ You won't win that one. They have the same sort of pockets you fear in Google, except that they have already proven they will sell you DSL at twice the price they will offer retail... When we started reselling Verizon DSL we paid them whole sale because the FCC said that they had to let us buy at whole sale. Wholesale to us was $23.95. Retail to their customers was $14.95 with a one year commitment. Then the FCC decided that they did not have to let us buy at wholesale... You frigure it out. ;) -m- Travis Johnson wrote: I don't fear the ILEC's... they are regulated and can be easily sued. We have sued Qwest twice and won both times... once for slow delivery of new lines and another time for billing errors. Travis Microserv Michael J. Erskine wrote: Travis Johnson wrote: Yes, I remember the dark fiber... and so, the question remains, how much fiber did they buy? They are now bidding on 700mhz spectrum, and could connect everything back to their main datacenters with all the dark fiber they purchased previously. ;) And I never said they were Evil (which is funny that everyone is using that term when it is Google's company moto to Do no Evil)... all I am saying is we need to keep our eyes open and watch what is going on... if the telco's buy the 700mhz, nobody really cares... they will use it for cell phone or higher speed mobile services... No, They will use it to deliver broadband in direct competition to you. The telco's have figured out that their future rests in broadband and not POTS. but if Google buys it, they will offer internet service really, really cheap or for free. They are making BILLIONS of dollars profit every year without doing anything... They are organizing data. They are selling advertizing space. CBS does that. NBC does that. CNN does that. It is not nothing. so they really have a lot of money they can throw at whatever they want. Good. I am all for competitors to the ILECs and I sincerely hope that Google gets some of that spectrum and offers the public a third option... Let's run some quick numbers... just for the fun of it... 700mhz Access Point at roughly $2,000 each 700mhz CPE at roughly $200 each Let's use a 50:1 ratio of CPE to AP, so it would be $12,000 for each AP/CPE combo. They would be able to charge something for the CPE, so that money can be used for other tower expenses (UPS, switches, etc.). Using only their profit for a single MONTH, they could put up 83,000 access points and deliver 4.1 million CPE. They could, almost instantly, become the single largest ISP in the world. Hey, and that would really level the playing field with the big boys, wouldn't it? It just gets scary when you actually realize that a BILLION is one thousand MILLION dollars. Yes but investors are investors, aren't they? Investors are often hesitant to let a company explore new territory. They would not be allowed to drop all their eggs in that one basket and they could not put the infrastructure in place that fast either. If you are looking for something to fear, fear the ILECs. Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA
Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion
Ten years is a good run, Travis. I wish you would listen to what I post rather than figure out some smart response. You have whined and whined about Google, yet you feel that the ILECs are not a threat. Besides the fact that you won a legal battle or two, you have no reason not to appropriate the *facts*. Yet you choose not to do that. Ok, help yourself. Go tilt at the Google windmill but while you do that, maybe you will check six once in a while? Because 6 is FTTH and 700 MHz in the hands of the ILECs. You may not believe that, and I personally could give a RATZ hinderst parts one way or the other, but put it in your note book and come back to me in two years... There are a lot of folks here who will tell you that I am not often wrong ... even though they don't like me worth a damn. Choose your enemies however you want. Me, I think I will choose mine with a dash of common sense. -m- Travis Johnson wrote: I figured it out a long time ago wireless internet go around the big bad phone company... since 1997. :) Travis Microserv Michael Erskine wrote: Try filing a suit for taking your customers... :-\ You won't win that one. They have the same sort of pockets you fear in Google, except that they have already proven they will sell you DSL at twice the price they will offer retail... When we started reselling Verizon DSL we paid them whole sale because the FCC said that they had to let us buy at whole sale. Wholesale to us was $23.95. Retail to their customers was $14.95 with a one year commitment. Then the FCC decided that they did not have to let us buy at wholesale... You frigure it out. ;) -m- Travis Johnson wrote: I don't fear the ILEC's... they are regulated and can be easily sued. We have sued Qwest twice and won both times... once for slow delivery of new lines and another time for billing errors. Travis Microserv Michael J. Erskine wrote: Travis Johnson wrote: Yes, I remember the dark fiber... and so, the question remains, how much fiber did they buy? They are now bidding on 700mhz spectrum, and could connect everything back to their main datacenters with all the dark fiber they purchased previously. ;) And I never said they were Evil (which is funny that everyone is using that term when it is Google's company moto to Do no Evil)... all I am saying is we need to keep our eyes open and watch what is going on... if the telco's buy the 700mhz, nobody really cares... they will use it for cell phone or higher speed mobile services... No, They will use it to deliver broadband in direct competition to you. The telco's have figured out that their future rests in broadband and not POTS. but if Google buys it, they will offer internet service really, really cheap or for free. They are making BILLIONS of dollars profit every year without doing anything... They are organizing data. They are selling advertizing space. CBS does that. NBC does that. CNN does that. It is not nothing. so they really have a lot of money they can throw at whatever they want. Good. I am all for competitors to the ILECs and I sincerely hope that Google gets some of that spectrum and offers the public a third option... Let's run some quick numbers... just for the fun of it... 700mhz Access Point at roughly $2,000 each 700mhz CPE at roughly $200 each Let's use a 50:1 ratio of CPE to AP, so it would be $12,000 for each AP/CPE combo. They would be able to charge something for the CPE, so that money can be used for other tower expenses (UPS, switches, etc.). Using only their profit for a single MONTH, they could put up 83,000 access points and deliver 4.1 million CPE. They could, almost instantly, become the single largest ISP in the world. Hey, and that would really level the playing field with the big boys, wouldn't it? It just gets scary when you actually realize that a BILLION is one thousand MILLION dollars. Yes but investors are investors, aren't they? Investors are often hesitant to let a company explore new territory. They would not be allowed to drop all their eggs in that one basket and they could not put the infrastructure in place that fast either. If you are looking for something to fear, fear the ILECs. Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this
Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion
Hi, Maybe you need to read my posts a little better... I think I have said it twice already, but I will say it again: I am not after Google, nor am I saying they are evil. What I am saying is there is a grand plan already in place with this 700mhz auction they are considering. They have the money and the means to do just about anything they want with it. We just need to keep our eyes open. The telco's already own a great deal of spectrum, so another 20mhz really isn't going to matter much. They don't know what they are doing, why would it change now? And, I'll say it again... The telco's don't scare me. Qwest offers $19.95 DSL packages right now... our cheapest wireless plan is $39.95, yet we continue to take people away from Qwest. Will I ever be as big as they are? No. But I will continue to pick up the people that HATE the telco and cableco, and that business alone will keep me in business for a long, long time. ;) We understand the phone company sold you DSL for twice what it sold to the customer... but again, why does that matter here? The day they started doing that was the same day you should have been installing wireless to all of your existing customers. We have had Qwest literally take a customer away from us while all three of us were conferenced on a call for support. That is against their company policy, especially when we called their safe line for ISP's. But there isn't a damn thing you can do about it, so you just move on. :) Travis Microserv Michael Erskine wrote: Ten years is a good run, Travis. I wish you would listen to what I post rather than figure out some smart response. You have whined and whined about Google, yet you feel that the ILECs are not a threat. Besides the fact that you won a legal battle or two, you have no reason not to appropriate the *facts*. Yet you choose not to do that. Ok, help yourself. Go tilt at the Google windmill but while you do that, maybe you will check six once in a while? Because 6 is FTTH and 700 MHz in the hands of the ILECs. You may not believe that, and I personally could give a RATZ hinderst parts one way or the other, but put it in your note book and come back to me in two years... There are a lot of folks here who will tell you that I am not often wrong ... even though they don't like me worth a damn. Choose your enemies however you want. Me, I think I will choose mine with a dash of common sense. -m- Travis Johnson wrote: I figured it out a long time ago wireless internet go around the big bad phone company... since 1997. :) Travis Microserv Michael Erskine wrote: Try filing a suit for taking your customers... :-\ You won't win that one. They have the same sort of pockets you fear in Google, except that they have already proven they will sell you DSL at twice the price they will offer retail... When we started reselling Verizon DSL we paid them whole sale because the FCC said that they had to let us buy at whole sale. Wholesale to us was $23.95. Retail to their customers was $14.95 with a one year commitment. Then the FCC decided that they did not have to let us buy at wholesale... You frigure it out. ;) -m- Travis Johnson wrote: I don't fear the ILEC's... they are regulated and can be easily sued. We have sued Qwest twice and won both times... once for slow delivery of new lines and another time for billing errors. Travis Microserv Michael J. Erskine wrote: Travis Johnson wrote: Yes, I remember the dark fiber... and so, the question remains, how much fiber did they buy? They are now bidding on 700mhz spectrum, and could connect everything back to their main datacenters with all the dark fiber they purchased previously. ;) And I never said they were Evil (which is funny that everyone is using that term when it is Google's company moto to Do no Evil)... all I am saying is we need to keep our eyes open and watch what is going on... if the telco's buy the 700mhz, nobody really cares... they will use it for cell phone or higher speed mobile services... No, They will use it to deliver broadband in direct competition to you. The telco's have figured out that their future rests in broadband and not POTS. but if Google buys it, they will offer internet service really, really cheap or for free. They are making BILLIONS of dollars profit every year without doing anything... They are organizing data. They are selling advertizing space. CBS does that. NBC does that. CNN does that. It is not nothing. so they really have a lot of money they can throw at whatever they want. Good. I am all for competitors to the ILECs and I sincerely hope that Google gets some of that spectrum and offers the public a third option... Let's run some quick numbers... just for the fun of it... 700mhz Access Point at roughly $2,000 each 700mhz CPE at roughly $200 each Let's use a 50:1 ratio of CPE to AP, so it would be $12,000 for each
Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion
Travis Johnson wrote: Hi, Maybe you need to read my posts a little better... I think I have said it twice already, but I will say it again: I am not after Google, nor am I saying they are evil. What I am saying is there is a grand plan already in place with this 700mhz auction they are considering. They have the money and the means to do just about anything they want with it. We just need to keep our eyes open. The telco's already own a great deal of spectrum, so another 20mhz really isn't going to matter much. They don't know what they are doing, why would it change now? The ILECs have been building the POTS network since 1900. They are not incompetent and they understand how to buy power. And, I'll say it again... The telco's don't scare me. Qwest offers $19.95 DSL packages right now... our cheapest wireless plan is $39.95, yet we continue to take people away from Qwest. Will I ever be as big as they are? No. But I will continue to pick up the people that HATE the telco and cableco, and that business alone will keep me in business for a long, long time. ;) That is exactly what we do here... We are a Canopy house and we routinely take customers from both cable and our ILEC. You are right about being in business for a long time. We are thinking in terms of our grand children. I do understand your point. Ten, even twenty years is going to work in rural situations. We understand the phone company sold you DSL for twice what it sold to the customer... but again, why does that matter here? The day they started doing that was the same day you should have been installing wireless to all of your existing customers. You think like we did. We have had Qwest literally take a customer away from us while all three of us were conferenced on a call for support. That is against their company policy, especially when we called their safe line for ISP's. But there isn't a damn thing you can do about it, so you just move on. :) Well, enough. Move along from Google. You have larger issues to concern yourself with. -m- Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion
I can tell you for a fact that Embarq and Verizon have 700 Mhz and FTTP on their radar BIG time. It's that whole battle vs. war thing... They're willing to get their heads handed to them 9 times because that 10th is their nuke... OK I've gotta throw away this devil's advocate hat... -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Erskine Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 11:40 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion Ten years is a good run, Travis. I wish you would listen to what I post rather than figure out some smart response. You have whined and whined about Google, yet you feel that the ILECs are not a threat. Besides the fact that you won a legal battle or two, you have no reason not to appropriate the *facts*. Yet you choose not to do that. Ok, help yourself. Go tilt at the Google windmill but while you do that, maybe you will check six once in a while? Because 6 is FTTH and 700 MHz in the hands of the ILECs. You may not believe that, and I personally could give a RATZ hinderst parts one way or the other, but put it in your note book and come back to me in two years... There are a lot of folks here who will tell you that I am not often wrong ... even though they don't like me worth a damn. Choose your enemies however you want. Me, I think I will choose mine with a dash of common sense. -m- Travis Johnson wrote: I figured it out a long time ago wireless internet go around the big bad phone company... since 1997. :) Travis Microserv Michael Erskine wrote: Try filing a suit for taking your customers... :-\ You won't win that one. They have the same sort of pockets you fear in Google, except that they have already proven they will sell you DSL at twice the price they will offer retail... When we started reselling Verizon DSL we paid them whole sale because the FCC said that they had to let us buy at whole sale. Wholesale to us was $23.95. Retail to their customers was $14.95 with a one year commitment. Then the FCC decided that they did not have to let us buy at wholesale... You frigure it out. ;) -m- Travis Johnson wrote: I don't fear the ILEC's... they are regulated and can be easily sued. We have sued Qwest twice and won both times... once for slow delivery of new lines and another time for billing errors. Travis Microserv Michael J. Erskine wrote: Travis Johnson wrote: Yes, I remember the dark fiber... and so, the question remains, how much fiber did they buy? They are now bidding on 700mhz spectrum, and could connect everything back to their main datacenters with all the dark fiber they purchased previously. ;) And I never said they were Evil (which is funny that everyone is using that term when it is Google's company moto to Do no Evil)... all I am saying is we need to keep our eyes open and watch what is going on... if the telco's buy the 700mhz, nobody really cares... they will use it for cell phone or higher speed mobile services... No, They will use it to deliver broadband in direct competition to you. The telco's have figured out that their future rests in broadband and not POTS. but if Google buys it, they will offer internet service really, really cheap or for free. They are making BILLIONS of dollars profit every year without doing anything... They are organizing data. They are selling advertizing space. CBS does that. NBC does that. CNN does that. It is not nothing. so they really have a lot of money they can throw at whatever they want. Good. I am all for competitors to the ILECs and I sincerely hope that Google gets some of that spectrum and offers the public a third option... Let's run some quick numbers... just for the fun of it... 700mhz Access Point at roughly $2,000 each 700mhz CPE at roughly $200 each Let's use a 50:1 ratio of CPE to AP, so it would be $12,000 for each AP/CPE combo. They would be able to charge something for the CPE, so that money can be used for other tower expenses (UPS, switches, etc.). Using only their profit for a single MONTH, they could put up 83,000 access points and deliver 4.1 million CPE. They could, almost instantly, become the single largest ISP in the world. Hey, and that would really level the playing field with the big boys, wouldn't it? It just gets scary when you actually realize that a BILLION is one thousand MILLION dollars. Yes but investors are investors, aren't they? Investors are often hesitant to let a company explore new territory. They would not be allowed to drop all their eggs in that one basket and they could not put the infrastructure in place that fast either. If you are looking for something to fear, fear the ILECs. Would you like to see your advertisement here
Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion
And thus you just hit the nail on the head... and it brings us back full circle to the original subject of this thread... Google is going to bid on 700mhz spectrum... billions of dollars... then, once they own it, they are going to start some type of wireless internet service using that spectrum... and then, they WILL be competing directly with all the ISP's. And, they will probably give the service away FREE, just like they do now with their WiFi service. Can you compete with FREE service, using 700mhz NLOS technology (meaning self-install, take the modem with you to work type service)? So, now who's your friend? They have a huge recurring income from the search engine, so they don't have to make a dime on other services... gmail, Google Earth, etc. are all examples. They will just add 700mhz wireless to the list of free things they provide. Travis Microserv Michael Erskine wrote: Travis Johnson wrote: I'm not sure what the hell your problem is, but you really need to get a grip. I started in the internet space in 1994... back before Google or even Altavista... back when there were no real search engines to speak of... and now today, Google's search is used by 44% of ALL internet searches... so, whether you believe it or not, they CAN control what searches are displayed for 44% of the internet that's only about 600 million people. 1) I took you to be a young man from the start. I wrote machine language on a Commodore 64 in 1983 while I was studying Computer Science but I sat down to my first main frame keyboard in 1972. 2) 44% is not a majority, last time I looked. 3) They are not the evil empire, honest... :P They are just another company making a living. Postini does SPAM blocking and filtering for a very large percentage of the internet today... we have been using them for almost 4 years. Large corporations (Apple, Sun, and others) also use them. So, once again, with Google buying Postini, they can control a _very_ large percentage of what emails get thru and don't get thru. Well you see, I've never felt the need to have someone else manage my mail servers... That means that I can't relate to your problem. Mind you I don't believe your problem is anything but paranoia, but I could be wrong. Google could be the evil empire and they might want to prevent me from getting my E-Mail... Maybe ... NAWH! Prolly not! :) Sounds like you are prepared to have Google control the internet for you rather than some ILEC that can really never have control... but some of us are not. Some of us helped get the internet where it is today because it was open and not controlled. You really need to open your eyes and take a look around... Google is becoming the Microsoft of internet space. Gee, Google never did lobby the FCC to get permission to wholesale DSL to us for $24.95 per month, while they retailed the same lines to our customers at $15.95 per month. Verizon did. Friend, you need to figure out who your allies are and who wants to crush you... Google has no interest in crushing Travis Johnson... The ILEC's do have an interest in crushing your business because you and they are in the same business space now. Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion
Ok... let's take a look at it for a second... Time Magazine article from 2006 documents how a senior writer for CNET wanted to see how much they could learn about the CEO of Google using just Google to search. Well, they found all kinds of info (address, home phone, salary and other incomes, etc. etc.). The founders of Google were outraged and were going to ban CNET because of it. They later reconsidered, but let's think about this for a second: They could have actually _removed_ CNET from all their search databases and effectively made CNET non-existant on a Google search (for 600 million people). This could have all been done because someone made them mad. Is there anything we can do? Not really. Am I changing my business direction or plan because of it? No. But it continues to amaze me that people in high places watch these things happen and don't even question it until it's too late. Google is buying up little companies all the time... they literally have more money than they can spend right now... that puts them in a very scary position for all of us. Travis Microserv Michael Erskine wrote: Good lord, when did this wave of paranoia begin? I missed it. Should I be terrified that Google is going to own the Internet as I know it? What shall I do? What shall I do? You mean that Google is going to come to my town and try to triple the local loop charges on my fractional DS-3 simply because I want my carrier to double the bandwidth... ... same fiber, different signaling rate, triple the local loop ... Only Verizon can pull of something like that and get away with it. But back to the topic. What *exactly* do I have to fear from Google? These vague suggestions that they are going to control the internet are obviously paranoia unless you can document something dark and sinister about Google... So, rather than make all these irrational claims, why not just *document* how google is the evil empire and they are taking over the internet... The very idea that they do 44% of the searches on the Internet and so they are in control is ludacris on it's face. Anyone can use any search engine they want to use. Therefore Google does not control sqaut, except what people let them control. ... and that Jonathan, and Travis, is simple business ... There is no evil empire behind the curtain. Honest. Take the blue pill, Neo... -m- Jonathan Schmidt wrote: Travis, your figures are right on and we've been there since the start, too, in fact were #19 in Sprint's first customers for dedicated Internet connection before that. Something curious is happening and it deserves close scrutiny... starting before NOW! We're (paper-presenting) members of MAAWG and CEAS ...organizations you all should watch...and start that now, too. . . . j o n a t h a n Jonathan Schmidt Perftech, Inc. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2007 11:07 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion I'm not sure what the hell your problem is, but you really need to get a grip. I started in the internet space in 1994... back before Google or even Altavista... back when there were no real search engines to speak of... and now today, Google's search is used by 44% of ALL internet searches... so, whether you believe it or not, they CAN control what searches are displayed for 44% of the internet that's only about 600 million people. Postini does SPAM blocking and filtering for a very large percentage of the internet today... we have been using them for almost 4 years. Large corporations (Apple, Sun, and others) also use them. So, once again, with Google buying Postini, they can control a _very_ large percentage of what emails get thru and don't get thru. Sounds like you are prepared to have Google control the internet for you rather than some ILEC that can really never have control... but some of us are not. Some of us helped get the internet where it is today because it was open and not controlled. You really need to open your eyes and take a look around... Google is becoming the Microsoft of internet space. Travis Microserv Michael Erskine wrote: Travis Johnson wrote: Google is quietly and methodically taking control of the internet. They already control what results we see on a search... No they don't... Once upon a time there was CERN's search engine and then there was Altavista, and then there was Yahoo, and then there was MSN, and Google. So you see, Google does not control what results we see on a search, if we but realize that there are other search engines. Mr. Jeeve's? and with the purchase of Postini, they will be able to control what emails we actually receive. And now they are bidding on wireless spectrum. OMG. They are going to control what E-Mail's we receive? Will that help
Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion
Travis Johnson wrote: And thus you just hit the nail on the head... and it brings us back full circle to the original subject of this thread... Google is going to bid on 700mhz spectrum... billions of dollars... then, once they own it, they are going to start some type of wireless internet service using that spectrum... and then, they WILL be competing directly with all the ISP's. And, they will probably give the service away FREE, just like they do now with their WiFi service. Can you compete with FREE service, using 700mhz NLOS technology (meaning self-install, take the modem with you to work type service)? I think they probably will sell the service. Their argument is that it should be an OPEN service, meaning that anyone's devices have to work with it. Kind of like, modems back in the day. Any modem could connect to a Cisco RAS server and anyone could own a RAS server if he had a line. Google seems to be saying that the rules for the spectrum should allow anyone to build a device which will work on the spectrum *AND* anyone who licenses the spectrum will have to honor such a device. Those rules are a heck of a lot more fair than the rules currently being discussed. So, now who's your friend? They have a huge recurring income from the search engine, so they don't have to make a dime on other services... gmail, Google Earth, etc. are all examples. They will just add 700mhz wireless to the list of free things they provide. Travis, Google is not the Evil Empire... Why do you think they are? They have a recurring income from the world's best search engine. Why is that a problem? Google Earth is a problem, why? Check out Microsoft selling you www.terraserver.com. Yep, they are reselling you the data that your tax dollars bought in the first place... That is why I use www.terraserver-usa.com, the site they are required by law to support. Slower, but it works. I don't know why you are afraid of Google. I don't think they are coming to a town near you. Maybe they will come to your town to *buy you out*, but they probably won't come to your town to crush your business... Verizon will. Michael: Hello, yes, the lady at Verizon told me that there was nothing you could do about the problems we are having with their DSL service, the one we are reselling, yes. Lady at FCC: Well, sadly she is correct. Unless the quality of service is the problem, we can not help you. I don't know Travis, but it looks to me like you have a great life. Why worry yourself over Google's market share? -m- Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion
Travis Johnson wrote: Ok... let's take a look at it for a second... Time Magazine article from 2006 documents how a senior writer for CNET wanted to see how much they could learn about the CEO of Google using just Google to search. Well, they found all kinds of info (address, home phone, salary and other incomes, etc. etc.). The founders of Google were outraged and were going to ban CNET because of it. They later reconsidered, but let's think about this for a second: They could have actually _removed_ CNET from all their search databases and effectively made CNET non-existant on a Google search (for 600 million people). This could have all been done because someone made them mad. But they did not do it... Power that is not exercised is counted as honorable. It is dignity, not shame. They did not do what they could have done. Why is that a problem for you Is there anything we can do? Not really. Am I changing my business direction or plan because of it? No. But it continues to amaze me that people in high places watch these things happen and don't even question it until it's too late. Google is buying up little companies all the time... they literally have more money than they can spend right now... that puts them in a very scary position for all of us. Travis Microserv Have you checked he net worth of Bill Gates lately? Mind you I am a Linux guy and I detest Microsoft... But Bill Gates has decided that he is not going to give his kids his fortune. Yeah, he is going to set them up for life, but he is going to give the majority of his fortune to those who have not had such opportunity. How can I hate Bill if he is going to be such a decent man? I can't. Now, why should I hate Google just because they have the opportunity to abuse things. After all, they have the power and they do not exercise it. That is better than any government I have ever paid attention to in the past. Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion
Remember when Google was buying up dark fiber? It scared everyone. Now Google is going to bid on spectrum IF a bunch of conditions are met. Those conditions will NOT be met. (Have you forgotten who chairs the FCC?) So it is probably just a ploy. And if they DO win some spectrum, the rules will be that it has to be Wholesale - so anyone can sell on it. Google will be on top until they screw up. Like Yahoo. Like AltaVista. Like Excite. Like Lycos. Like Ask. They make money because they are the most used search engine. Not the best. The most used. So that is where advertising dollars go. It can change. It often does. BTW, Google will peer with you for free. SO if 44% of your bandwidth is for Google, they just saved you on IP bamdwidth costs. Anyone else doing that? I can't believe I am agreeing with Mike E. but I don't see them as any more evil than any other company. And having watched them try to do Muni Wi-Fi in their town. Going Nationwide? Not very likely. Travis are you the one who created his own Google Adwords home page to collect a check from Google for doing searches? I know what MAAWG is (http://www.maawg.org - do they actually DO anything?) but CEAS??? - Peter @ RAD-INFO Travis Johnson wrote: And thus you just hit the nail on the head... and it brings us back full circle to the original subject of this thread... Google is going to bid on 700mhz spectrum... billions of dollars... then, once they own it, they are going to start some type of wireless internet service using that spectrum... and then, they WILL be competing directly with all the ISP's. And, they will probably give the service away FREE, just like they do now with their WiFi service. Can you compete with FREE service, using 700mhz NLOS technology (meaning self-install, take the modem with you to work type service)? So, now who's your friend? They have a huge recurring income from the search engine, so they don't have to make a dime on other services... gmail, Google Earth, etc. are all examples. They will just add 700mhz wireless to the list of free things they provide. Travis Microserv Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion
Yeah right. Google is gonna come up with 4.6 BILLION and THEN tell the FCC that they should have to force them to have a wholesale program? If they were THAT committed why not just buy the spectrum and offer the program anyway. Am I the ONLY cynic left in this group? grin marlon - Original Message - From: Drew Lentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 10:58 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion That is wonderful news if you ask me! Drew Lentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 12:24 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion http://64.233.179.110/blog_resources/Google_Ex_Parte_Letter_Signed.pdf Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 [EMAIL PROTECTED] This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(84). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses. Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion
yeah, scary eh? marlon - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2007 9:48 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion Google is quietly and methodically taking control of the internet. They already control what results we see on a search... and with the purchase of Postini, they will be able to control what emails we actually receive. And now they are bidding on wireless spectrum. They are just slowly taking over little pieces of the net... bit by bit... :( Travis Microserv Jeromie Reeves wrote: For now Google will be better. I just hope that it stays that way. I think the telcos will pull out more money then 4.6b. Will Google be willing to up the ante? On 7/21/07, Jory Privett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree better Google than the telcos Jory Privett WCCS - Original Message - From: Drew Lentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 12:58 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion That is wonderful news if you ask me! Drew Lentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 12:24 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion http://64.233.179.110/blog_resources/Google_Ex_Parte_Letter_Signed.pdf Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 [EMAIL PROTECTED] This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(84). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses. Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http
Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion
There has to be more to the everyone can use it stuff... Google is going to spend 4.6 Billion and then just let anyone that wants to use it for free? Or comparing to the modem stuff, you had to connect to a specific ISP (by dialing that number). Are there going to be multiple ISP's in the same area on the same 700mhz area? Google is in this to make money... either by selling the service cheap and going for very large quantities, or giving it away for free and maybe making the default homepage www.google.com. They have lots of options... but they aren't going to drop 4.6 Billion without some plan on how to make it back and then some. Travis Microserv Michael Erskine wrote: Travis Johnson wrote: And thus you just hit the nail on the head... and it brings us back full circle to the original subject of this thread... Google is going to bid on 700mhz spectrum... billions of dollars... then, once they own it, they are going to start some type of wireless internet service using that spectrum... and then, they WILL be competing directly with all the ISP's. And, they will probably give the service away FREE, just like they do now with their WiFi service. Can you compete with FREE service, using 700mhz NLOS technology (meaning self-install, take the modem with you to work type service)? I think they probably will sell the service. Their argument is that it should be an OPEN service, meaning that anyone's devices have to work with it. Kind of like, modems back in the day. Any modem could connect to a Cisco RAS server and anyone could own a RAS server if he had a line. Google seems to be saying that the rules for the spectrum should allow anyone to build a device which will work on the spectrum *AND* anyone who licenses the spectrum will have to honor such a device. Those rules are a heck of a lot more fair than the rules currently being discussed. So, now who's your friend? They have a huge recurring income from the search engine, so they don't have to make a dime on other services... gmail, Google Earth, etc. are all examples. They will just add 700mhz wireless to the list of free things they provide. Travis, Google is not the Evil Empire... Why do you think they are? They have a recurring income from the world's best search engine. Why is that a problem? Google Earth is a problem, why? Check out Microsoft selling you www.terraserver.com. Yep, they are reselling you the data that your tax dollars bought in the first place... That is why I use www.terraserver-usa.com, the site they are required by law to support. Slower, but it works. I don't know why you are afraid of Google. I don't think they are coming to a town near you. Maybe they will come to your town to *buy you out*, but they probably won't come to your town to crush your business... Verizon will. Michael: Hello, yes, the lady at Verizon told me that there was nothing you could do about the problems we are having with their DSL service, the one we are reselling, yes. Lady at FCC: Well, sadly she is correct. Unless the quality of service is the problem, we can not help you. I don't know Travis, but it looks to me like you have a great life. Why worry yourself over Google's market share? -m- Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion
My understanding of the rules is that they would not have to allow any specific level of service for free. Only make the protocol, channel spacing/width, etc, open and free. Ok so everyone gets dialup for free, with ads (Think NetZero here). Then, anyone that wants a faster service pays. They would not need to pay much to make it profitable and do so fast. With free/open devices every manufacture will make one. Cell phones will gain access, they would have to else the first two or three devices would put the cell industry out of business (ok not out, but bleeding). Next (or maybe first) laptops will have it (I would bet Intel would be first here) and that would absolutely kick the cell industry in to gear. Next (or again, first) mp3 players and devices like that (iPod, mobile dvd players, cars themselves, etc) would, if first, kick the other two in gear. Using the numbers from Travis: Call it $10K per tower for setup/hardware/back haul. $0 per cpe as they will let the end user pick the device and pay for it. How much area could 100,000 towers cover? Even double or triple the price per tower, thats at least 33,000 sites. And how many will they relay build out? Deals with cell carriers to do the build out or some such that off loads the cost and logistics to some degree would be the likely path. On 7/22/07, Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There has to be more to the everyone can use it stuff... Google is going to spend 4.6 Billion and then just let anyone that wants to use it for free? Or comparing to the modem stuff, you had to connect to a specific ISP (by dialing that number). Are there going to be multiple ISP's in the same area on the same 700mhz area? Google is in this to make money... either by selling the service cheap and going for very large quantities, or giving it away for free and maybe making the default homepage www.google.com. They have lots of options... but they aren't going to drop 4.6 Billion without some plan on how to make it back and then some. Travis Microserv Michael Erskine wrote: Travis Johnson wrote: And thus you just hit the nail on the head... and it brings us back full circle to the original subject of this thread... Google is going to bid on 700mhz spectrum... billions of dollars... then, once they own it, they are going to start some type of wireless internet service using that spectrum... and then, they WILL be competing directly with all the ISP's. And, they will probably give the service away FREE, just like they do now with their WiFi service. Can you compete with FREE service, using 700mhz NLOS technology (meaning self-install, take the modem with you to work type service)? I think they probably will sell the service. Their argument is that it should be an OPEN service, meaning that anyone's devices have to work with it. Kind of like, modems back in the day. Any modem could connect to a Cisco RAS server and anyone could own a RAS server if he had a line. Google seems to be saying that the rules for the spectrum should allow anyone to build a device which will work on the spectrum *AND* anyone who licenses the spectrum will have to honor such a device. Those rules are a heck of a lot more fair than the rules currently being discussed. So, now who's your friend? They have a huge recurring income from the search engine, so they don't have to make a dime on other services... gmail, Google Earth, etc. are all examples. They will just add 700mhz wireless to the list of free things they provide. Travis, Google is not the Evil Empire... Why do you think they are? They have a recurring income from the world's best search engine. Why is that a problem? Google Earth is a problem, why? Check out Microsoft selling you www.terraserver.com. Yep, they are reselling you the data that your tax dollars bought in the first place... That is why I use www.terraserver-usa.com, the site they are required by law to support. Slower, but it works. I don't know why you are afraid of Google. I don't think they are coming to a town near you. Maybe they will come to your town to *buy you out*, but they probably won't come to your town to crush your business... Verizon will. Michael: Hello, yes, the lady at Verizon told me that there was nothing you could do about the problems we are having with their DSL service, the one we are reselling, yes. Lady at FCC: Well, sadly she is correct. Unless the quality of service is the problem, we can not help you. I don't know Travis, but it looks to me like you have a great life. Why worry yourself over Google's market share? -m- Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts.
Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion
I agree better Google than the telcos Jory Privett WCCS - Original Message - From: Drew Lentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 12:58 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion That is wonderful news if you ask me! Drew Lentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 12:24 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion http://64.233.179.110/blog_resources/Google_Ex_Parte_Letter_Signed.pdf Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 [EMAIL PROTECTED] This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(84). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses. Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion
For now Google will be better. I just hope that it stays that way. I think the telcos will pull out more money then 4.6b. Will Google be willing to up the ante? On 7/21/07, Jory Privett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree better Google than the telcos Jory Privett WCCS - Original Message - From: Drew Lentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 12:58 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion That is wonderful news if you ask me! Drew Lentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 12:24 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion http://64.233.179.110/blog_resources/Google_Ex_Parte_Letter_Signed.pdf Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 [EMAIL PROTECTED] This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(84). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses. Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion
Google has a larger market capitalization than any of the telcos... if they want it, they'll have it. According to finance.google.com: GOOG: $162.04B VZ: $122.75B T: $240.83B (oh, okay, I forgot that ATT acquired BellSouth) CMCSA: $88.97B S: $63.6B Q: $17.42B DT: $79.5B - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Jeromie Reeves [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2007 10:53 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion For now Google will be better. I just hope that it stays that way. I think the telcos will pull out more money then 4.6b. Will Google be willing to up the ante? On 7/21/07, Jory Privett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree better Google than the telcos Jory Privett WCCS - Original Message - From: Drew Lentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 12:58 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion That is wonderful news if you ask me! Drew Lentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 12:24 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion http://64.233.179.110/blog_resources/Google_Ex_Parte_Letter_Signed.pdf Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 [EMAIL PROTECTED] This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(84). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses. Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts
Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion
Google is quietly and methodically taking control of the internet. They already control what results we see on a search... and with the purchase of Postini, they will be able to control what emails we actually receive. And now they are bidding on wireless spectrum. They are just slowly taking over little pieces of the net... bit by bit... :( Travis Microserv Jeromie Reeves wrote: For now Google will be better. I just hope that it stays that way. I think the telcos will pull out more money then 4.6b. Will Google be willing to up the ante? On 7/21/07, Jory Privett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree better Google than the telcos Jory Privett WCCS - Original Message - From: Drew Lentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 12:58 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion That is wonderful news if you ask me! Drew Lentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 12:24 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion http://64.233.179.110/blog_resources/Google_Ex_Parte_Letter_Signed.pdf Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 [EMAIL PROTECTED] This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(84). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses. Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion
And this of course is the corp with the corporate motto: Don't be evil. http://investor.google.com/conduct.html I'm sure we all hope they stand to that themselves - Regards Stephen CableFree Solutions -Original Message- From: Travis Johnson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 21 July 2007 17:48 To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion Google is quietly and methodically taking control of the internet. They already control what results we see on a search... and with the purchase of Postini, they will be able to control what emails we actually receive. And now they are bidding on wireless spectrum. They are just slowly taking over little pieces of the net... bit by bit... :( Travis Microserv Jeromie Reeves wrote: For now Google will be better. I just hope that it stays that way. I think the telcos will pull out more money then 4.6b. Will Google be willing to up the ante? On 7/21/07, Jory Privett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree better Google than the telcos Jory Privett WCCS - Original Message - From: Drew Lentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 12:58 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion That is wonderful news if you ask me! Drew Lentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 12:24 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion http://64.233.179.110/blog_resources/Google_Ex_Parte_Letter_Signed. pdf Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 [EMAIL PROTECTED] * *** This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(84). * *** * *** This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses. * *** - --- Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. - --- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ - --- Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. - --- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ - --- Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. - --- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- -- Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings
Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion
Mike: I mean Telcos as a whole. The FCC might feel they will get more cash if they sell it off in smaller blocks. I forget, has the FCC decided just what the rules will be for this spectrum? Need to look that up. Stephen: We surely do hope so. They, like all large multinational corporations, will slide into evilness. Hopefully they can stave it off longer then others On 7/21/07, Stephen Patrick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And this of course is the corp with the corporate motto: Don't be evil. http://investor.google.com/conduct.html I'm sure we all hope they stand to that themselves - Regards Stephen CableFree Solutions -Original Message- From: Travis Johnson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 21 July 2007 17:48 To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion Google is quietly and methodically taking control of the internet. They already control what results we see on a search... and with the purchase of Postini, they will be able to control what emails we actually receive. And now they are bidding on wireless spectrum. They are just slowly taking over little pieces of the net... bit by bit... :( Travis Microserv Jeromie Reeves wrote: For now Google will be better. I just hope that it stays that way. I think the telcos will pull out more money then 4.6b. Will Google be willing to up the ante? On 7/21/07, Jory Privett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree better Google than the telcos Jory Privett WCCS - Original Message - From: Drew Lentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 12:58 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion That is wonderful news if you ask me! Drew Lentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 12:24 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion http://64.233.179.110/blog_resources/Google_Ex_Parte_Letter_Signed. pdf Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 [EMAIL PROTECTED] * *** This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(84). * *** * *** This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses. * *** - --- Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. - --- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ - --- Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. - --- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ - --- Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. - --- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about
Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion
More important that market cap is the debt. The telcos are laiden with debt and are borrowing heavy to lay out FTTx (VZ for FiOS and att for U-verse) and cellular builds. Google makes them all nervous anyway. The dark fiber talk. The bandwidth. Now licensed bandwidth. If there was only a dual-mode Google phone :) Regards, Peter Radizeski RAD-INFO, Inc. - NSP Strategist We Help ISPs Connect Communicate 813.963.5884 http://4isps.com Mike Hammett wrote: Google has a larger market capitalization than any of the telcos... if they want it, they'll have it. According to finance.google.com: GOOG: $162.04B VZ: $122.75B T: $240.83B (oh, okay, I forgot that ATT acquired BellSouth) CMCSA: $88.97B S: $63.6B Q: $17.42B DT: $79.5B - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion
Travis Johnson wrote: Google is quietly and methodically taking control of the internet. They already control what results we see on a search... No they don't... Once upon a time there was CERN's search engine and then there was Altavista, and then there was Yahoo, and then there was MSN, and Google. So you see, Google does not control what results we see on a search, if we but realize that there are other search engines. Mr. Jeeve's? and with the purchase of Postini, they will be able to control what emails we actually receive. And now they are bidding on wireless spectrum. OMG. They are going to control what E-Mail's we receive? Will that help with the spam problem? LoL dude. Nobody can control what E-Mail's you receive but your mail host and sadly it can only do so much. They are just slowly taking over little pieces of the net... bit by bit... :( Yeah, bad! evil! Google! Fighting for net neutrality against all those nicey nice ILECs who have nothing but our own best interests at heart. :) Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion
I'm not sure what the hell your problem is, but you really need to get a grip. I started in the internet space in 1994... back before Google or even Altavista... back when there were no real search engines to speak of... and now today, Google's search is used by 44% of ALL internet searches... so, whether you believe it or not, they CAN control what searches are displayed for 44% of the internet that's only about 600 million people. Postini does SPAM blocking and filtering for a very large percentage of the internet today... we have been using them for almost 4 years. Large corporations (Apple, Sun, and others) also use them. So, once again, with Google buying Postini, they can control a _very_ large percentage of what emails get thru and don't get thru. Sounds like you are prepared to have Google control the internet for you rather than some ILEC that can really never have control... but some of us are not. Some of us helped get the internet where it is today because it was open and not controlled. You really need to open your eyes and take a look around... Google is becoming the Microsoft of internet space. Travis Microserv Michael Erskine wrote: Travis Johnson wrote: Google is quietly and methodically taking control of the internet. They already control what results we see on a search... No they don't... Once upon a time there was CERN's search engine and then there was Altavista, and then there was Yahoo, and then there was MSN, and Google. So you see, Google does not control what results we see on a search, if we but realize that there are other search engines. Mr. Jeeve's? and with the purchase of Postini, they will be able to control what emails we actually receive. And now they are bidding on wireless spectrum. OMG. They are going to control what E-Mail's we receive? Will that help with the spam problem? LoL dude. Nobody can control what E-Mail's you receive but your mail host and sadly it can only do so much. They are just slowly taking over little pieces of the net... bit by bit... :( Yeah, bad! evil! Google! Fighting for net neutrality against all those nicey nice ILECs who have nothing but our own best interests at heart. :) Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion
Travis, your figures are right on and we've been there since the start, too, in fact were #19 in Sprint's first customers for dedicated Internet connection before that. Something curious is happening and it deserves close scrutiny... starting before NOW! We're (paper-presenting) members of MAAWG and CEAS ...organizations you all should watch...and start that now, too. . . . j o n a t h a n Jonathan Schmidt Perftech, Inc. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2007 11:07 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion I'm not sure what the hell your problem is, but you really need to get a grip. I started in the internet space in 1994... back before Google or even Altavista... back when there were no real search engines to speak of... and now today, Google's search is used by 44% of ALL internet searches... so, whether you believe it or not, they CAN control what searches are displayed for 44% of the internet that's only about 600 million people. Postini does SPAM blocking and filtering for a very large percentage of the internet today... we have been using them for almost 4 years. Large corporations (Apple, Sun, and others) also use them. So, once again, with Google buying Postini, they can control a _very_ large percentage of what emails get thru and don't get thru. Sounds like you are prepared to have Google control the internet for you rather than some ILEC that can really never have control... but some of us are not. Some of us helped get the internet where it is today because it was open and not controlled. You really need to open your eyes and take a look around... Google is becoming the Microsoft of internet space. Travis Microserv Michael Erskine wrote: Travis Johnson wrote: Google is quietly and methodically taking control of the internet. They already control what results we see on a search... No they don't... Once upon a time there was CERN's search engine and then there was Altavista, and then there was Yahoo, and then there was MSN, and Google. So you see, Google does not control what results we see on a search, if we but realize that there are other search engines. Mr. Jeeve's? and with the purchase of Postini, they will be able to control what emails we actually receive. And now they are bidding on wireless spectrum. OMG. They are going to control what E-Mail's we receive? Will that help with the spam problem? LoL dude. Nobody can control what E-Mail's you receive but your mail host and sadly it can only do so much. They are just slowly taking over little pieces of the net... bit by bit... :( Yeah, bad! evil! Google! Fighting for net neutrality against all those nicey nice ILECs who have nothing but our own best interests at heart. :) Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion
Travis Johnson wrote: I'm not sure what the hell your problem is, but you really need to get a grip. I started in the internet space in 1994... back before Google or even Altavista... back when there were no real search engines to speak of... and now today, Google's search is used by 44% of ALL internet searches... so, whether you believe it or not, they CAN control what searches are displayed for 44% of the internet that's only about 600 million people. 1) I took you to be a young man from the start. I wrote machine language on a Commodore 64 in 1983 while I was studying Computer Science but I sat down to my first main frame keyboard in 1972. 2) 44% is not a majority, last time I looked. 3) They are not the evil empire, honest... :P They are just another company making a living. Postini does SPAM blocking and filtering for a very large percentage of the internet today... we have been using them for almost 4 years. Large corporations (Apple, Sun, and others) also use them. So, once again, with Google buying Postini, they can control a _very_ large percentage of what emails get thru and don't get thru. Well you see, I've never felt the need to have someone else manage my mail servers... That means that I can't relate to your problem. Mind you I don't believe your problem is anything but paranoia, but I could be wrong. Google could be the evil empire and they might want to prevent me from getting my E-Mail... Maybe ... NAWH! Prolly not! :) Sounds like you are prepared to have Google control the internet for you rather than some ILEC that can really never have control... but some of us are not. Some of us helped get the internet where it is today because it was open and not controlled. You really need to open your eyes and take a look around... Google is becoming the Microsoft of internet space. Gee, Google never did lobby the FCC to get permission to wholesale DSL to us for $24.95 per month, while they retailed the same lines to our customers at $15.95 per month. Verizon did. Friend, you need to figure out who your allies are and who wants to crush you... Google has no interest in crushing Travis Johnson... The ILEC's do have an interest in crushing your business because you and they are in the same business space now. Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion
Good lord, when did this wave of paranoia begin? I missed it. Should I be terrified that Google is going to own the Internet as I know it? What shall I do? What shall I do? You mean that Google is going to come to my town and try to triple the local loop charges on my fractional DS-3 simply because I want my carrier to double the bandwidth... ... same fiber, different signaling rate, triple the local loop ... Only Verizon can pull of something like that and get away with it. But back to the topic. What *exactly* do I have to fear from Google? These vague suggestions that they are going to control the internet are obviously paranoia unless you can document something dark and sinister about Google... So, rather than make all these irrational claims, why not just *document* how google is the evil empire and they are taking over the internet... The very idea that they do 44% of the searches on the Internet and so they are in control is ludacris on it's face. Anyone can use any search engine they want to use. Therefore Google does not control sqaut, except what people let them control. ... and that Jonathan, and Travis, is simple business ... There is no evil empire behind the curtain. Honest. Take the blue pill, Neo... -m- Jonathan Schmidt wrote: Travis, your figures are right on and we've been there since the start, too, in fact were #19 in Sprint's first customers for dedicated Internet connection before that. Something curious is happening and it deserves close scrutiny... starting before NOW! We're (paper-presenting) members of MAAWG and CEAS ...organizations you all should watch...and start that now, too. . . . j o n a t h a n Jonathan Schmidt Perftech, Inc. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2007 11:07 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion I'm not sure what the hell your problem is, but you really need to get a grip. I started in the internet space in 1994... back before Google or even Altavista... back when there were no real search engines to speak of... and now today, Google's search is used by 44% of ALL internet searches... so, whether you believe it or not, they CAN control what searches are displayed for 44% of the internet that's only about 600 million people. Postini does SPAM blocking and filtering for a very large percentage of the internet today... we have been using them for almost 4 years. Large corporations (Apple, Sun, and others) also use them. So, once again, with Google buying Postini, they can control a _very_ large percentage of what emails get thru and don't get thru. Sounds like you are prepared to have Google control the internet for you rather than some ILEC that can really never have control... but some of us are not. Some of us helped get the internet where it is today because it was open and not controlled. You really need to open your eyes and take a look around... Google is becoming the Microsoft of internet space. Travis Microserv Michael Erskine wrote: Travis Johnson wrote: Google is quietly and methodically taking control of the internet. They already control what results we see on a search... No they don't... Once upon a time there was CERN's search engine and then there was Altavista, and then there was Yahoo, and then there was MSN, and Google. So you see, Google does not control what results we see on a search, if we but realize that there are other search engines. Mr. Jeeve's? and with the purchase of Postini, they will be able to control what emails we actually receive. And now they are bidding on wireless spectrum. OMG. They are going to control what E-Mail's we receive? Will that help with the spam problem? LoL dude. Nobody can control what E-Mail's you receive but your mail host and sadly it can only do so much. They are just slowly taking over little pieces of the net... bit by bit... :( Yeah, bad! evil! Google! Fighting for net neutrality against all those nicey nice ILECs who have nothing but our own best interests at heart. :) Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts
RE: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion
That is wonderful news if you ask me! Drew Lentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 12:24 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion http://64.233.179.110/blog_resources/Google_Ex_Parte_Letter_Signed.pdf Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 [EMAIL PROTECTED] This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(84). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses. Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion
It is great news to spur the coming future of broadband ubiquity, and I mean ubiquity not only relative to place, but also in terms of what gets connected. I ain't about cell phones anymore, that's for sure. If the thing can benefit from intelligence and networking, expect an effort to make such a thing connect into the Internet. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Drew Lentz Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 10:58 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion That is wonderful news if you ask me! Drew Lentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 12:24 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WISPA] Google makes it official -- putting up $4.6 billion http://64.233.179.110/blog_resources/Google_Ex_Parte_Letter_Signed.pdf Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 [EMAIL PROTECTED] This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(84). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses. Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(190). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(43). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(84). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses. Would you like to see your advertisement here? Let the WISPA Board know your feelings about allowing advertisements on the free WISPA lists. The current Board is taking this under consideration at this time. We want to know your thoughts. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
