Re: [WISPA] DSL vs. Wireless Broadband

2006-04-05 Thread Scott Reed
Who says the L in  DSL must be Line?  Call it Digital Subsciber Link and it works for the customer and uses our normal language for the radio connection. Scott Reed Owner NewWays Wireless Networking Network Design, Installation and Administration www.nwwnet.net --

Re: [WISPA] DSL vs. Wireless Broadband

2006-04-05 Thread Rick Smith
great point! :) Scott Reed wrote: Who says the L in DSL must be Line? Call it Digital Subsciber Link and it works for the customer and uses our normal language for the radio connection. Scott Reed Owner NewWays Wireless Networking Network Design, Installation and Administration

Re: [WISPA] DSL vs. Wireless Broadband

2006-04-05 Thread Travis Johnson
The big problem I see is that DSL is full-duplex. It can be transmitting and receiving at the same time. Wireless is not. Travis Microserv KyWiFi LLC wrote: I'm noticing more and more WISP's selling their wireless broadband service as DSL or Wireless DSL. I know that 75% of the people who

RE: [WISPA] DSL vs. Wireless Broadband

2006-04-05 Thread chris cooper
We conducted a few focus groups here. Most of the attendees were in the 18-24 yr. age bracket. It was amazing how many didn't identify with the word broadband. The words they responded to best were 'high speed internet Wireless was way down the list. Too much confusion with cellular. That

RE: [WISPA] Tranzeo AP

2006-04-05 Thread William.L. Edwards
Title: Message We have them all over the place and they are great.We use them onMDU/MTU deployments, residential, schools, and whole towns and they work very well. The duel ethernet ports give you so many options to use them for. For instance you can do a wireless backhaul to another cell

[WISPA] Alvarion -Wifi chipset still allows for highend product

2006-04-05 Thread Tom DeReggi
Charles, After missing the backhaul bash this year, we had to perform our own locally. One of the products we tested was the Alvarion VL B28. Its important to note, that the use of the Atheros Wifi chipset in the radio was NOT a negative with the product. The Alvarion had excellent

Re: [WISPA] DSL vs. Wireless Broadband

2006-04-05 Thread Tom DeReggi
Chris, I agree with your finding. But its possible your focus group did not get all the fact. (Or what was the finding?) For example, its not only important to determine what terms the customer best recognizes and identify with, but also what meaning they have for those terms that they

Re: [WISPA] DSL vs. Wireless Broadband

2006-04-05 Thread Scott Reed
Very well stated, Tom.  I think there may reason to make some market distinction.  In the part of rural Indiana I live in, servicing residential customers  with wireless DSL is probably not bad marketing.  Selling it that way to most businesses would not be so beneficial, especially when

Re: [WISPA] Un- licensed WIMAX?

2006-04-05 Thread Steve Stroh
Jeff: If a system hasn't been through the interoperability testing, it ISN'T WiMAX - at all. Absent the certification of interoperability, at best what the vendors will be shipping and selling prior to achieving certification is a proprietary product with perhaps some WiMAX features.

Re: [WISPA] DSL vs. Wireless Broadband

2006-04-05 Thread Travis Johnson
Tom, Are you saying that you compare your wireless service to T1 telco service? How are you doing full-duplex with wireless? Travis Microserv Tom DeReggi wrote: Chris, I agree with your finding. But its possible your focus group did not get all the fact. (Or what was the finding?) For

Re: [WISPA] Un- licensed WIMAX?

2006-04-05 Thread Matt Liotta
The entire point of WiMAX may be interoperability, but from a fixed wireless standpoint interoperability is meaningless. When and if mobile WiMAX becomes interesting interoperability will be important. Until then there is no need for it in a fixed wireless network, so the certification badge

Re: [WISPA] DSL vs. Wireless Broadband

2006-04-05 Thread Matt Liotta
3Mbps half-duplex delivered using 50% time division is equivalent to 1.5Mbps full-duplex. The fact that many TDD radios can have dynamic time division makes a 3Mbps half-duplex link superior IMHO. -Matt Travis Johnson wrote: Tom, Are you saying that you compare your wireless service to T1

Re: [WISPA] Dish mount

2006-04-05 Thread Marlon K. Schafer
I pay a bit more than that but the ones I get from Pac Wireless are, by far, the strongest one's I've seen on the market. marlon - Original Message - From: Brian Rohrbacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Conversations over a new WISP Trade Organization wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April

Re: [WISPA] DSL vs. Wireless Broadband

2006-04-05 Thread Travis Johnson
Matt, This is not true. With a telco T1, if someone starts a 1.5Mbps upload, it has no effect on the download (i.e. virus traffic, music sharing, worms, etc.). With a wireless connection, even at 3.0Mbps, a 1.5Mbps upload will bring it almost to a stop. Travis Microserv Matt Liotta wrote:

Re: [WISPA] DSL vs. Wireless Broadband

2006-04-05 Thread Matt Liotta
It is true. Basic logic says that 3Mbps divided in half means you can get 1.5Mbps. Further, find any device that can have strict time division partitioning set and test it yourself. -Matt Travis Johnson wrote: Matt, This is not true. With a telco T1, if someone starts a 1.5Mbps upload, it

RE: [WISPA] DSL vs. Wireless Broadband

2006-04-05 Thread Charles Wu
Higher ARPU WISPs in the business are selling their services as WiMAX -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of KyWiFi LLC Sent: Tuesday,

RE: [WISPA] Un- licensed WIMAX?

2006-04-05 Thread Charles Wu
snip That is correct, however those companies are expected to be shipping product ( and are taking pre orders ) that will comply with the testing whenever the gods at wimaxforum decide to get off their collective arses and certify 5.8. Airspan for example, already has wimax 4.9 product

RE: [WISPA] Un- licensed WIMAX?

2006-04-05 Thread Charles Wu
Hi Jeff, Out of curiosity, since QoS base WiMAX certification currently are mutually exclusive, how does having QoS allow one manufacturer to have product that's more WiMAX than another (not to say that QoS makes a product better, but that's a whole different argument) -Charles

RE: [WISPA] Un- licensed WIMAX?

2006-04-05 Thread Charles Wu
There is no such thing right now as unlicensed WiMAX (e.g., no way today to officially certify 5.8 Ghz WiMAX) So you *could* say that Motorola, Alvarion, Trango, Tranzeo, Mikrotik, StarOS, etc all have roadmaps to WiMAX just like Airspan Aperto -Charles

RE: [WISPA] DSL vs. Wireless Broadband

2006-04-05 Thread Charles Wu
snip Maybe we should be branding our service as Wi-Fiber. or Maybe Ethernet Internet Access (of course like end users will know what Ethernet means.) /snip Spend trying to build a new brand around Wi-Fiber or just ride Intel / WiMAX Forum's Marketing machine... Here's the thing, chances

Re: [WISPA] DSL vs. Wireless Broadband

2006-04-05 Thread Peter R.
Tom DeReggi wrote: I've been plaqued by this problem, as my company name is... RapidDSL. It gets me the leads, but it also starts every sales call out with why I'm charging more than $50 a month for my service, that I generally get $150-$500 a month for. I'm seeing this company name as a

Re: [WISPA] Un- licensed WIMAX?

2006-04-05 Thread Steve Stroh
Matt: The capabilities of WiMAX ALREADY exist in the proprietary products of Alvarion, Redline, Aperto Networks, etc. WiMAX is a standardization of the lowest-common-denominator of those capabilities, with certified interoperability. If you've waited this long for WiMAX capabilities, and

Re: [WISPA] DSL vs. Wireless Broadband

2006-04-05 Thread Tom DeReggi
We don't, but there is no need to. 3 mbps half duplex = 1.5 mbps full duplex. (Actually bettter, because when upload speed not used, its there to be used for high speeds in the other direction.) Our router bandwidth management allows setting speed in both directions (using HTB). Its one

Re: [WISPA] Un- licensed WIMAX?

2006-04-05 Thread Matt Liotta
I didn't mean to imply that I am waiting on the technology. We use Orthogon today, which provides us all the capabilities of WiMAX and then some. However, the price point simply doesn't compete with Canopy for last mile use, which is why we continue to use it. We are waiting on the

[WISPA] Turbocell Problem

2006-04-05 Thread Mark Nash
I am troubleshooting a major problem in which (intermittently) we will have good connectivity TO the AP, but on the client side of the AP, our customers are having seriously slow connections or timeouts. Ping times TO the AP are fine constantly 10ms-40ms, but beyond the AP (client-side),

Re: [WISPA] DSL vs. Wireless Broadband

2006-04-05 Thread Tom DeReggi
Travis, We do not see that on our network. One provider's usage rarely has an effect on the others, that can be significantly noticed. When bandwidth management is done at the first hop at every cell site, this does not happen. I'm referring to using Trango 5830s. You are however bringing up

Re: [WISPA] Un- licensed WIMAX?

2006-04-05 Thread Jeffrey Thomas
Agreed- interop is a great thing steve, but the problem is that currently no wimax profile requires any level of interop beyond simple bridging, which most operators will find that they want to use the QOS features so they can sell services such as voip. are these products i mentioned using

Re: [WISPA] Un- licensed WIMAX?

2006-04-05 Thread Jeffrey Thomas
On Apr 5, 2006, at 9:46 AM, Charles Wu wrote: snip That is correct, however those companies are expected to be shipping product ( and are taking pre orders ) that will comply with the testing whenever the gods at wimaxforum decide to get off their collective arses and certify 5.8. Airspan for

Re: [WISPA] Un- licensed WIMAX?

2006-04-05 Thread Jeffrey Thomas
Okay, we could both agree that a simple bridge mode system with no level of QOS, no ability to segment traffic flows between CBR/CIR/BE, would be pretty pointless right? then it would be simple best effort only services you could sell on a given link or base station. So while company A may

Re: [WISPA] Un- licensed WIMAX?

2006-04-05 Thread Jeffrey Thomas
Actually, I would argue that the great thing about wimax is not really interop- its lower costs on CPE. Until there is an agreed upon profile for WImax QOS, then literally everyone who buys wimax base stations will use the same manufacturers client devices. The only major difference is

RE: [WISPA] DSL vs. Wireless Broadband

2006-04-05 Thread danlist
On a good system like canopy or polling (nstream or turbocell) I have been able to run a FDX style link, downloading 1.5Mbps while uploading 1.5Mbps, using Nstream I have done 15Mbps pseudo-fdx Nstream2 allows a true FDX channel but I believe only PTP Dan Metcalf Wireless Broadband Systems

RE: [WISPA] DSL vs. Wireless Broadband

2006-04-05 Thread danlist
Our noc is connected w/ a 5.8Ghz PTP Link. We do streaming audio from that NOC while also providing internet access.. During the day the streaming audio hits over 2Mbps and during that same time we pulling 2Mbps to 4Mbps from the internet. The system is definitely HDX but has no problem sending

[WISPA] BST, ATT, Sprint and 2.3G and 2.5G

2006-04-05 Thread Peter R.
BellSouth, the second-largest owner of 2.5GHz spectrum in the U.S., controls spectrum in most of the 50 largest markets, according to published reports. It also has substantial 2.3GHz spectrum (acquired in auctions in 1997). SBC Communications also gained a large amount of 2.3GHz spectrum when

[WISPA] CPE's and the NEC

2006-04-05 Thread Jason
How do all you guys in NEC enforcement areas handle the grounding issue? Details please. Currently I am not in an enforcement area, but that's about to change. Scratching head, Jason -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:

[WISPA] Need 2.4 GHz - 900 MHz Frequency Converter

2006-04-05 Thread Jack Unger
Does anyone have one 2.4 GHz to 900 MHz up/down converter that they are willing to part with? I need one to expand the coverage of a 2.4 GHz spectrum analyzer down to 900 MHz (receive only). Thanks in advance, jack -- Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com,

Re: [WISPA] CPE's and the NEC

2006-04-05 Thread Brian Rohrbacher
I am currently waiting on 2 distributors who I'm contacted about getting cat5 with a grounding wire (either #10,12, or 14). They are getting a hold of the manufacturers and are going to see if they will make it and what the min commit it. I will let everyone know. Brian Jason wrote: How

[WISPA] motorola mesh

2006-04-05 Thread Dylan Oliver
Anyone know anything about Motorola's 802.11 mesh products? Are they rebranding someone else's gear (as it appears they did with Orthogon) or building their own? I haven't heard anything about it, but just found the marketing on my most recent visit to canopywireless.com. Any success stories with

Re: [WISPA] motorola mesh

2006-04-05 Thread Joe Laura
Dont hold me to it but I thought for sure they were using Tropos - Original Message - From: Dylan Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 6:03 PM Subject: [WISPA] motorola mesh Anyone know anything about Motorola's 802.11 mesh

RE: [WISPA] CPE's and the NEC

2006-04-05 Thread chris cooper
On the surface it sounds like a good idea. Im no electrician, nor do I play one on television. Is it a good idea to have the ground in the same sheath as the conductors? Im thinking in a lightning strike- would it be better to shunt the surge onto the tower and tower ground asap or run it all

Re: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment

2006-04-05 Thread Dylan Oliver
John, It's now April 5th. How are you faring with the Cisco mesh gear? On 3/1/06, John J. Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Cisco radios can do 4.9-5.8 GHz. I am assuming that 5.3-5.7 will be available in a update, since 4.9 is available now. Cisco apparently only has 6-8 deployments so

[WISPA] CPE Cost Ideas Needed

2006-04-05 Thread Joshua M. Andrews
I'm about to get my first WISP up and running but the major factor that's holding me back is the initial cost of the CPE's. I've decided to go with WaveWireless (formerly WaveRider) 900Mhz but the lowest prices are around $350 or so. I've been thinking of pitching the service by saying the

Re: [WISPA] DSL vs. Wireless Broadband

2006-04-05 Thread Tom DeReggi
Travis, I'd love to perform your test. Send me the CD. Understanding that I will provision the customer at 3 mbps on our first hop router, using Trango 10mbps PtMP radio link, and that your CD test will generate 1500mbps of data transfer. There are three seperate issues here. 1) One user's

RE: [WISPA] CPE Cost Ideas Needed

2006-04-05 Thread Cliff Leboeuf
Joshua, We originally charged a $200 install and a $150 install for businessThat was 4 years ago and was based on DSL just becoming available in my area. Since then, cable has become available. Both DSL and cable have become cheaper and offer free installs. Even with DSL and cable

Re: [WISPA] Cisco Mesh Equipment

2006-04-05 Thread John J. Thomas
If it would stop raining.. We don't have it all deployed yet, but here is what we know. They take a long time to boot, maybe 5 minutes. The range is poor, they are supposed to put out 26 dBm per Cisco, but they only put out 14 dBm per the controller interface. We questioned Cisco on

Re: [WISPA] CPE Cost Ideas Needed

2006-04-05 Thread Peter R.
Be tough to get a 4 year contract. Plus how are you going to enforce these contracts? Who owns the CPE after install? Who takes care of maintenance? How about a Priority install charge to help off-set the CPE? Regards, Peter RAD-INFO, Inc. 4isps.com marketingideaguy.com Joshua M. Andrews