RE: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2006-01-09 Thread G.Villarini
I bet she's a handful... I got 2 boys...5 and 1 years old... oh man and I
thought wisp was thought business Jeje see you at Winog

Gino A. Villarini, 
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.aeronetpr.com
787.767.7466

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Charles Wu
Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 10:49 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

Hey Charles ... long time no see ... any winog on 2006 ?

Hi Gino

Been Extremely Busy: http://www.winog.com/austin_2006/kaili_wu.jpg
Now that she FINALLY sleeps through the night, I'm able to start actually
concentrating and focusing at work again, and yes, WiNOG this year will be
from March 13-15, 2006 in Austin, TX

-Charles

---
CWLab
Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com 


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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-14 Thread Mac Dearman

Brian,

 I have a site that been up for a couple years here

http://www.wisp-coop.com/

Take a look see and I will forward you the admin password if you want to 
use it


Mac Dearman
Maximum Access, LLC.
www.inetsouth.com
www.radioresponse.org (Katrina relief efforts)
318-728-8600 - Rayville
318-728-9600
318-376-2562 - cell




Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

I'm getting a lot of interest off list on the group idea.  Can anyone 
(principal member) set up a mail server for use to talk about this.  ASAP!


Thanks
Brian

Charles Wu wrote:


I know you don't support the idea of group buys.
   



It's not that I don't support the concept, truthfully, I could care less
whether you buy your gear from a distributor, reseller, or direct from the
manufacturer

I have just seen it implemented (rather unsuccessfully) many times by ISPs
such as yourselves, and am trying to help you avoid making such a mistake

The idea of a WISP buying group is nothing original, for the past few years,
I've seen this idea come up at least once a month on some WISP listserv /
forum / etc...

However, if it was really that easy and simple -- why hasn't it been
implemented yet on a consistent long term basis?

Here's my observation

-The guys that fail with their buying group end up getting their inventory
liquidated on Ebay, go bankrupt and disappear

-The guys that just barely sell their inventory realize how much of a PITA
the organization/operation is, and go back to buying from their
distributor/reseller/etc

-The guys that are extremely successful become resellers/distributors

-Charles

---
CWLab
Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com 



 



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Brian Rohrbacher
Reliable Internet, LLC
www.reliableinter.net
Cell 269-838-8338

Caught up in the Air 1 Thess. 4:17


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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-14 Thread Mac Dearman
I guess I should have read the complete thread before making my last 
post :-)


Mac Dearman
Maximum Access, LLC.
www.inetsouth.com
www.radioresponse.org (Katrina relief efforts)
318-728-8600 - Rayville
318-728-9600
318-376-2562 - cell




Mac Dearman wrote:


Brian,

 I have a site that been up for a couple years here

http://www.wisp-coop.com/

Take a look see and I will forward you the admin password if you want 
to use it


Mac Dearman
Maximum Access, LLC.
www.inetsouth.com
www.radioresponse.org (Katrina relief efforts)
318-728-8600 - Rayville
318-728-9600
318-376-2562 - cell




Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

I'm getting a lot of interest off list on the group idea.  Can anyone 
(principal member) set up a mail server for use to talk about this.  
ASAP!


Thanks
Brian

Charles Wu wrote:


I know you don't support the idea of group buys.
  



It's not that I don't support the concept, truthfully, I could care 
less
whether you buy your gear from a distributor, reseller, or direct 
from the

manufacturer

I have just seen it implemented (rather unsuccessfully) many times 
by ISPs
such as yourselves, and am trying to help you avoid making such a 
mistake


The idea of a WISP buying group is nothing original, for the past 
few years,
I've seen this idea come up at least once a month on some WISP 
listserv /

forum / etc...

However, if it was really that easy and simple -- why hasn't it been
implemented yet on a consistent long term basis?

Here's my observation

-The guys that fail with their buying group end up getting their 
inventory

liquidated on Ebay, go bankrupt and disappear

-The guys that just barely sell their inventory realize how much of 
a PITA

the organization/operation is, and go back to buying from their
distributor/reseller/etc

-The guys that are extremely successful become resellers/distributors

-Charles

---
CWLab
Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com

 



--
Brian Rohrbacher
Reliable Internet, LLC
www.reliableinter.net
Cell 269-838-8338

Caught up in the Air 1 Thess. 4:17


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RE: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-13 Thread Don Renner
I apologize if this is not appropriate, just trying to help.
We are member of WISPA and helping some WISP's purchase equipment.
Please contact me off list, can give pricing  want to support the WISPA
members.

Don Renner
Helix Technologies, Inc.
8550 W. Main St.
French Lick, IN 47432
812-936-2525office
812-936-2006fax
812-521-1876cell

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 12:10 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

I'll make some calls tomorrow and see what the distributors say.

Travis Johnson wrote:

 Hi,

 There are so many risks that _someone_ is going to have to assume. 
 Example: If I say put me down for 20 units and here's my credit 
 card. You place the order with the distributor, and I get my items. 
 However, either the distributor will put each order in different names 
 (thus, once the boss finds out it will be done), or they all go under 
 a single name. Now, with my credit card being charged, but only a 
 single invoice created for the big order, I can contact my credit 
 card company and file a chargeback. There will be no invoice for the 
 purchase, and nothing in my name. I just got 20 radios for free and 
 the distributor just lost big money.

 This is only one example. There are 10 other risks to this project 
 and someone will have to take them all...

 Why not just lease your CPE? Even doing 25 at a time, I think you can 
 get 30 or 60 days before your first payment.

 Travis
 Microserv

 Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

 Basically what I propose (in a nutshell) is going to a the 
 distrobuters and saying this.  I have ten or twenty or whatever WISPs 
 and we all want to buy ten units of *insert brand here* and have them 
 all shipped to different addresses and charged to different 
 accounts.  What are you willing to do to accomidate us?   I know 
 there are a number of distobuters out there.  Ones that do millions 
 worth of gear all the way down to ones that operate WISPs and became 
 resellers of the gear they use in order to get their volume up.  If 
 ten people can install ten a month.  That is 1200 a year.  If we 
 look, I bet there is a reseller somewhere who wants to increase 
 volume by 1200 a year.  5k a year wouldn't be stretching the 
 imagination too far either.

 Am I dumb here guys?  Why wouldn't this work?

 Tom DeReggi wrote:

 Charles,

 I fully second your post.
 Well said.

 Tom DeReggi
 RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


 - Original Message - From: Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 9:25 PM
 Subject: RE: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices


 snip
 You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up 
 eating
 the organization and the organization becomes caught up in being a
 volume club.
 /snip

 We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and
 getting a T1 line

 Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally 
 attest
 to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your 
 proposing)
 than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP

 Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group
 faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the
 buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will
 require cash up front for the purchase

 So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses
 Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase that 
 500
 pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake)
 Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store 
 stuff
 Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics 
 guy to
 repackage / ship stuff

 On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to 
 purchasing
 the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to unforseen 
 things
 that always happen in deployments (e.g.,  lightning, customers don't 
 sign
 on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town)

 So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell 
 excess units

 Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative fee /
 margin to compensate)

 In the meantime, either

 1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy line, 
 and all
 WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a huge
 loss)
 2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new flavor of the
 month and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/ 
 $100k
 worth of boat anchors

 -Charles


 ---
 CWLab
 Technology Architects
 http://www.cwlab.com




-- 
Brian Rohrbacher
Reliable Internet, LLC
www.reliableinter.net
Cell 269-838-8338

Caught up in the Air 1 Thess. 4:17

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RE: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-13 Thread Ron Wallace
Now there's an optimistic view, thanks Charles.  But sometimes true,

 Original message 
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 20:25:36 -0600
From: Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
Subject: RE: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices  
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org

snip
You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up 
eating 
the organization and the organization becomes caught up in being a 
volume club.
/snip

We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and
getting a T1 line

Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally 
attest
to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your 
proposing)
than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP

Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group
faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the
buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will
require cash up front for the purchase

So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses
Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase that 
500
pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake)
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store 
stuff
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics guy 
to
repackage / ship stuff

On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to 
purchasing
the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to unforseen 
things
that always happen in deployments (e.g.,  lightning, customers don't 
sign
on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town)

So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell excess 
units

Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative fee /
margin to compensate)

In the meantime, either

1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy line, 
and all
WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a huge
loss)
2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new flavor of the
month and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/ 
$100k
worth of boat anchors

-Charles


---
CWLab
Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com 

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Hahnron, Inc.
220 S. Jackson St.
Addison, MI 49220

Phone:  (517) 547-8410
Mobile:  (517) 605-4542
e-mail:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-13 Thread Ron Wallace
Go for it Brian, Doesn't matter what others think, if we can save some 
money, good.

Ron Wallace

 Original message 
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 22:58:47 -0500
From: Brian Rohrbacher [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
Subject: Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices  
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org

I have never done a group buy, but this is how I would approach it. 

First step.  Principal Members only.  You want a deal, fork over 200 
some bucks and support the industry.
Second step.  Find 10 people who want ten units.  (500 if possible, 
but 
prolly 100 pack to start)
Third step.  Go to moto website and look up resellers.
fourth step.  Call resellers and get quote.  Say look here.  I have a 
buying group.  I want 100 SMs, charged to 10 credit cards and shipped 
to 
10 addresses.  Send me a quote to email  Forward quote to next 
reseller 
and go from there.  Whoever is cheaper wins.  If they want the 
business 
of the buying group, they better figure out how to cut a deal.  Am I 
acting like a know it all Charles?  Would all the resellers say screw 
you if I approached like this?
If all resellers say we can't do this.then I would (big trust 
here) 
run all cards through paypal and pay with one lump sum and re ship 
from 
here.  Now add the 1.9% for paypal and add more for extra 
shippingdon't know what that would be, but it would be figured 
before hand.

I just made all that up, but it seems like it would work.  Only 
question 
is how warranty is handled.  By MAC addy or by who bought the radio.

Someone let me know if my approach is out of line.  Never done this 
and 
might be reinventing the wheel (I hope it rolls)

Brian

A. Huppenthal wrote:

 Charles,

 I know you don't support the idea of group buys. Enough said. Fact 
is 
 I've done group buys with high-end equipment before - it wasn't 
 difficult at all. If you are comparing a public distributor to a 
 closed membership buying club, you aren't comparing apples to 
apples. 
 I sure as hell don't want to create a distributor organization.

 However, as our discussion continues, I might be willing to send 
Jim, 
 George, Brian or whomever offers a group buy $2600 for 10 Canopy SMs 
 if the buy is 100 units and we're all lined up. I don't need 
support, 
 training, stocking, any of the services that distributors offer. 
 Frankly, I don't need my distributor under cutting me to sell direct 
 to customers. You have your pros and cons for going to distributors 
 for *everything*. Certainly what's being discussed here isn't 
 pretending to create a distributor that has *everything*..

 Frankly I think the board with the exception of myself, uniformly 
 doesn't support group buys.

 The buyers create the relatonship for the purpose of the buy, it 
ends 
 when the product is delivered.


 Charles Wu wrote:

 snip
 You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up 
 eating the organization and the organization becomes caught up in 
 being a volume club.
 /snip

 We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP 
and
 getting a T1 line

 Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally 
 attest
 to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your 
 proposing)
 than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP

 Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying 
group
 faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that 
the
 buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor 
will
 require cash up front for the purchase

 So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses
 Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase 
that 500
 pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake)
 Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store 
 stuff
 Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics 
 guy to
 repackage / ship stuff

 On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to 
 purchasing
 the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to 
unforseen 
 things
 that always happen in deployments (e.g.,  lightning, customers 
don't 
 sign
 on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town)

 So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell 
excess 
 units

 Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative 
fee /
 margin to compensate)

 In the meantime, either

 1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy line, 
 and all
 WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a 
huge
 loss)
 2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new flavor of 
the
 month and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/ 
$100k
 worth of boat anchors

 -Charles


 ---
 CWLab
 Technology Architects
 http://www.cwlab.com
  



-- 
Brian Rohrbacher
Reliable Internet, LLC
www.reliableinter.net
Cell 269-838-8338

Caught up in the Air 1 Thess. 4:17

-- 
WISPA Wireless

Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-13 Thread Ron Wallace
Sounds good to me Brian.  Try it.  All they can say is 'no'.  As for 
all the down sides, we haven't bought anything yet.  Lets go one step 
at a time here.

But I say go for it.

 Original message 
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 23:52:52 -0500
From: Brian Rohrbacher [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
Subject: Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices  
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org

Basically what I propose (in a nutshell) is going to a the 
distrobuters 
and saying this.  I have ten or twenty or whatever WISPs and we all 
want 
to buy ten units of *insert brand here* and have them all shipped to 
different addresses and charged to different accounts.  What are you 
willing to do to accomidate us?   I know there are a number of 
distobuters out there.  Ones that do millions worth of gear all the 
way 
down to ones that operate WISPs and became resellers of the gear they 
use in order to get their volume up.  If ten people can install ten a 
month.  That is 1200 a year.  If we look, I bet there is a reseller 
somewhere who wants to increase volume by 1200 a year.  5k a year 
wouldn't be stretching the imagination too far either.

Am I dumb here guys?  Why wouldn't this work?

Tom DeReggi wrote:

 Charles,

 I fully second your post.
 Well said.

 Tom DeReggi
 RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


 - Original Message - From: Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 9:25 PM
 Subject: RE: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices


 snip
 You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up 
eating
 the organization and the organization becomes caught up in being a
 volume club.
 /snip

 We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP 
and
 getting a T1 line

 Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally 
 attest
 to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your 
 proposing)
 than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP

 Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying 
group
 faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that 
the
 buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor 
will
 require cash up front for the purchase

 So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses
 Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase that 
500
 pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake)
 Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store 
stuff
 Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics 
guy to
 repackage / ship stuff

 On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to 
purchasing
 the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to unforseen 
 things
 that always happen in deployments (e.g.,  lightning, customers don't 
sign
 on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town)

 So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell 
excess 
 units

 Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative 
fee /
 margin to compensate)

 In the meantime, either

 1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy line, 
 and all
 WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a 
huge
 loss)
 2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new flavor of 
the
 month and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/ 
$100k
 worth of boat anchors

 -Charles


 ---
 CWLab
 Technology Architects
 http://www.cwlab.com


-- 
Brian Rohrbacher
Reliable Internet, LLC
www.reliableinter.net
Cell 269-838-8338

Caught up in the Air 1 Thess. 4:17

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Ron Wallace
Hahnron, Inc.
220 S. Jackson St.
Addison, MI 49220

Phone:  (517) 547-8410
Mobile:  (517) 605-4542
e-mail:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-13 Thread A. Huppenthal
frankly, if I'm buying them for 50% off, I'll buy a spare for every 50 
units I buy. failure rate on moto's is about 1 in 100


Travis Johnson wrote:

And, the other issue is the purchase will be made in the group name, 
so how do you handle warranty issues?


Travis
Microserv

Charles Wu wrote:


snip
You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up 
eating the organization and the organization becomes caught up in 
being a volume club.

/snip

We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and
getting a T1 line

Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally 
attest
to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your 
proposing)

than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP

Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group
faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the
buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will
require cash up front for the purchase

So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses
Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase that 500
pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake)
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store 
stuff
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics 
guy to

repackage / ship stuff

On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to 
purchasing
the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to unforseen 
things
that always happen in deployments (e.g.,  lightning, customers don't 
sign

on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town)

So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell excess 
units


Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative fee /
margin to compensate)

In the meantime, either

1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy line, 
and all

WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a huge
loss)
2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new flavor of the
month and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/ $100k
worth of boat anchors

-Charles


---
CWLab
Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com
 





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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-13 Thread A. Huppenthal
Warranty? what warranty? Do you all really have warranty problems. 
Switch vendors. :-)
Moto doesn't have a warranty program. They die, you throw them away. 
Returning them to my x-distributor resulted in the same thing. They lost 
the returns. Screw it. Buy cheap and manage your own warranty. If you 
really want the warranty, perhaps the group buy co-ordinator would like 
to recive $2 extra per radio to put up a website with MAC addresses and 
to handle each return for $20. But really, I don't want to have anything 
to do with warrenty - We're talking $250 items. If you are buying lots 
of APs, well, get a spare and return through the distributor that sold 
the 'lot' to the buying group. Moto doesn't sell direct for example - 
unless you are government. Hey, wait, can we be a government? Know 
anyone on an Indian reservation? They are a government. :-) Perhaps 
they'd like to get involved. There are few Indian businesses in my area, 
unfortunately.



Brian Rohrbacher wrote:


I have never done a group buy, but this is how I would approach it.
First step.  Principal Members only.  You want a deal, fork over 200 
some bucks and support the industry.
Second step.  Find 10 people who want ten units.  (500 if possible, 
but prolly 100 pack to start)

Third step.  Go to moto website and look up resellers.
fourth step.  Call resellers and get quote.  Say look here.  I have a 
buying group.  I want 100 SMs, charged to 10 credit cards and shipped 
to 10 addresses.  Send me a quote to email  Forward quote to next 
reseller and go from there.  Whoever is cheaper wins.  If they want 
the business of the buying group, they better figure out how to cut a 
deal.  Am I acting like a know it all Charles?  Would all the 
resellers say screw you if I approached like this?
If all resellers say we can't do this.then I would (big trust 
here) run all cards through paypal and pay with one lump sum and re 
ship from here.  Now add the 1.9% for paypal and add more for extra 
shippingdon't know what that would be, but it would be figured 
before hand.


I just made all that up, but it seems like it would work.  Only 
question is how warranty is handled.  By MAC addy or by who bought the 
radio.


Someone let me know if my approach is out of line.  Never done this 
and might be reinventing the wheel (I hope it rolls)


Brian

A. Huppenthal wrote:


Charles,

I know you don't support the idea of group buys. Enough said. Fact is 
I've done group buys with high-end equipment before - it wasn't 
difficult at all. If you are comparing a public distributor to a 
closed membership buying club, you aren't comparing apples to apples. 
I sure as hell don't want to create a distributor organization.


However, as our discussion continues, I might be willing to send Jim, 
George, Brian or whomever offers a group buy $2600 for 10 Canopy SMs 
if the buy is 100 units and we're all lined up. I don't need support, 
training, stocking, any of the services that distributors offer. 
Frankly, I don't need my distributor under cutting me to sell direct 
to customers. You have your pros and cons for going to distributors 
for *everything*. Certainly what's being discussed here isn't 
pretending to create a distributor that has *everything*..


Frankly I think the board with the exception of myself, uniformly 
doesn't support group buys.


The buyers create the relatonship for the purpose of the buy, it ends 
when the product is delivered.



Charles Wu wrote:


snip
You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up 
eating the organization and the organization becomes caught up in 
being a volume club.

/snip

We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and
getting a T1 line

Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally 
attest
to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your 
proposing)

than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP

Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group
faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the
buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will
require cash up front for the purchase

So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses
Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase that 
500

pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake)
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store 
stuff
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics 
guy to

repackage / ship stuff

On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to 
purchasing
the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to unforseen 
things
that always happen in deployments (e.g.,  lightning, customers don't 
sign

on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town)

So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell 
excess units


Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative fee /

Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-13 Thread A. Huppenthal
Like I said 1 to 100 failures. Usually we drop them from a roof, or run 
one over.. Often times they still work, but often they don't Its a piece 
of plastic housing with a single board inside. You can get a replacement 
case for $15 as I recall. Nice to have a few around for demo to 
customers. They build them for $25 probably, open one up - there's 
nothing in there. An Altera FPGA - well, other programmable gate array.. 
basically 'make your hardware' on a chip technology.  Check out HDLs if 
you are interested - its how I designed our first DSL modem. Moto isn't 
stupid. Its a good design. The hardware just jumped up a bit in 
complexity recently - but the price jump was nuts. Moto stays in this 
business becasue they are making lots and lots of money. Its not a lost 
leader.


As far as hacking them go.. well, Rich Comroe might tell us.. Hey Rich - 
can we get an HDL for the Moto? :-) oh yea, I can see this list cracking 
open the HDL.. :-) its such a paradigm change... it isn't really like 
programming, well.. as much as programming is like jazz dancing, I suppose.


But crapola boys, we have on the smartest guys in the Motorola Land  - 
one of their top technology leaders as a member of list here. Ask him, 
I'm not anywhere close to the design other than tearing the chips appart 
out of curiousity. He's not  sales man, Rich, didn't we first meet when 
you were VP of Engineering @ Moto? I could be wrong it was yonks ago.



Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

Well, I'm not a Canopy user, but am close to making the leap.  (would 
have done it long time ago if gear was a reasonable price)


Whoever buys the gear.  Group name or Joe Blow.
Attention Canopy users how are warranty issues handled?  If I buy gear 
on ebay can I send it into Moto for warranty?  Or is it void because I 
didn't buy from authorized reseller?


Brian

Travis Johnson wrote:

And, the other issue is the purchase will be made in the group 
name, so how do you handle warranty issues?


Travis
Microserv

Charles Wu wrote:


snip
You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up 
eating the organization and the organization becomes caught up in 
being a volume club.

/snip

We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and
getting a T1 line

Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally 
attest
to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your 
proposing)

than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP

Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group
faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the
buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will
require cash up front for the purchase

So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses
Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase that 
500

pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake)
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store 
stuff
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics 
guy to

repackage / ship stuff

On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to 
purchasing
the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to unforseen 
things
that always happen in deployments (e.g.,  lightning, customers don't 
sign

on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town)

So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell 
excess units


Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative fee /
margin to compensate)

In the meantime, either

1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy line, 
and all

WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a huge
loss)
2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new flavor of the
month and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/ 
$100k

worth of boat anchors

-Charles


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Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com
 







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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-13 Thread A. Huppenthal
I like the 100 pack - but Mote sometimes gives away a couple of 
backhuals with a 500 pack and other promos.. They change from time to 
time, whomever wants to run with it will have to make some calls. once 
we go underground on this deal, we can have a couple of teleconferences, 
and I'll cough up my secrets. To some degree its not a good idea to get 
to the precise suppliers, prices, deals and so on on a public list.. 
Sometimes Moto takes a dim view of group buys, and snaps the elastic of 
the distributor in unpleasent ways


Travis Johnson wrote:

Also, how much of a real savings are you going to see buying a 500 
pack compared with a 100 pack? I'm not sure how the pricing structure 
works with Moto, but with other places the biggest savings is from 
10/20 packs to 100 or 250 packs. Going from 100 to 500 yields very 
minimal changes ($10 per SM/SU would be my guess).


Travis
Microserv

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

Well, I'm not a Canopy user, but am close to making the leap.  (would 
have done it long time ago if gear was a reasonable price)


Whoever buys the gear.  Group name or Joe Blow.
Attention Canopy users how are warranty issues handled?  If I buy 
gear on ebay can I send it into Moto for warranty?  Or is it void 
because I didn't buy from authorized reseller?


Brian

Travis Johnson wrote:

And, the other issue is the purchase will be made in the group 
name, so how do you handle warranty issues?


Travis
Microserv

Charles Wu wrote:


snip
You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up 
eating the organization and the organization becomes caught up in 
being a volume club.

/snip

We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and
getting a T1 line

Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally 
attest
to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your 
proposing)

than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP

Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group
faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the
buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will
require cash up front for the purchase

So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses
Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase 
that 500

pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake)
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store 
stuff
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics 
guy to

repackage / ship stuff

On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to 
purchasing
the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to 
unforseen things
that always happen in deployments (e.g.,  lightning, customers 
don't sign

on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town)

So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell 
excess units


Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative 
fee /

margin to compensate)

In the meantime, either

1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy line, 
and all
WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a 
huge

loss)
2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new flavor of 
the
month and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/ 
$100k

worth of boat anchors

-Charles


---
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Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com
 









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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-13 Thread A. Huppenthal

It'll work, you just do it. The details are all bulls*it.

Set up a closed email list for people who are interested. If you can 
wait a week or two I can setup an email list for that, if you like. 
People who aren't interested are going to give you one million reason 
why the earth is flat, or whatever their view is.


My only concern is that someone gets screwed because there is a liar, 
cheat, thief in the process. Else, its cheap gear for cheap prices that 
*works*. However, if your don't know that, likely you'll need an AP. 
hmmm... if anyone wants to borrow a 5.7 AP from me, you can. I'll lend 
it out for a week, you pay the post both ways and *if* it come back 
broken, *you* agree to replace it in 10 days with a working one. Turns 
out i have enough canopy stuff until late Jan. Contact me off-list if 
you like. Frankly if the group buy guy wants to handle loaners to the 
membership/group that's find with me. I'll toss $100 in the kitty toward 
4 loaner APs - a 5.2, 5.7, 2.4 (junk) and 900 mhz (I'll never use).. Got 
a paypal account, I'll send the money now.



Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

Basically what I propose (in a nutshell) is going to a the 
distrobuters and saying this.  I have ten or twenty or whatever WISPs 
and we all want to buy ten units of *insert brand here* and have them 
all shipped to different addresses and charged to different accounts.  
What are you willing to do to accomidate us?   I know there are a 
number of distobuters out there.  Ones that do millions worth of gear 
all the way down to ones that operate WISPs and became resellers of 
the gear they use in order to get their volume up.  If ten people can 
install ten a month.  That is 1200 a year.  If we look, I bet there is 
a reseller somewhere who wants to increase volume by 1200 a year.  5k 
a year wouldn't be stretching the imagination too far either.


Am I dumb here guys?  Why wouldn't this work?

Tom DeReggi wrote:


Charles,

I fully second your post.
Well said.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - From: Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 9:25 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices


snip
You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up eating
the organization and the organization becomes caught up in being a
volume club.
/snip

We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and
getting a T1 line

Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally 
attest
to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your 
proposing)

than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP

Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group
faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the
buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will
require cash up front for the purchase

So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses
Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase that 500
pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake)
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store 
stuff
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics 
guy to

repackage / ship stuff

On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to 
purchasing
the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to unforseen 
things
that always happen in deployments (e.g.,  lightning, customers don't 
sign

on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town)

So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell excess 
units


Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative fee /
margin to compensate)

In the meantime, either

1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy line, 
and all

WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a huge
loss)
2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new flavor of the
month and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/ $100k
worth of boat anchors

-Charles


---
CWLab
Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com





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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-13 Thread A. Huppenthal
The risk should be - the guy who gets my money sends me my SMs.. These 
things come in single unit boxes, so repacking them isn't a huge deal. 
10 boxes of 10 each? I think that's a reasonable limit. Trusting someone 
on the list to do the buy with my $2600 is fine. I'll do some due 
diligience on the group buyer. If there's some references, an address, a 
person we know, we'll that's all fine wit me. Paypal has some control 
over what you suggest is a hole.


Travis Johnson wrote:


Hi,

There are so many risks that _someone_ is going to have to assume. 
Example: If I say put me down for 20 units and here's my credit 
card. You place the order with the distributor, and I get my items. 
However, either the distributor will put each order in different names 
(thus, once the boss finds out it will be done), or they all go under 
a single name. Now, with my credit card being charged, but only a 
single invoice created for the big order, I can contact my credit 
card company and file a chargeback. There will be no invoice for the 
purchase, and nothing in my name. I just got 20 radios for free and 
the distributor just lost big money.


This is only one example. There are 10 other risks to this project 
and someone will have to take them all...


Why not just lease your CPE? Even doing 25 at a time, I think you can 
get 30 or 60 days before your first payment.


Travis
Microserv

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

Basically what I propose (in a nutshell) is going to a the 
distrobuters and saying this.  I have ten or twenty or whatever WISPs 
and we all want to buy ten units of *insert brand here* and have them 
all shipped to different addresses and charged to different 
accounts.  What are you willing to do to accomidate us?   I know 
there are a number of distobuters out there.  Ones that do millions 
worth of gear all the way down to ones that operate WISPs and became 
resellers of the gear they use in order to get their volume up.  If 
ten people can install ten a month.  That is 1200 a year.  If we 
look, I bet there is a reseller somewhere who wants to increase 
volume by 1200 a year.  5k a year wouldn't be stretching the 
imagination too far either.


Am I dumb here guys?  Why wouldn't this work?

Tom DeReggi wrote:


Charles,

I fully second your post.
Well said.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - From: Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 9:25 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices


snip
You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up 
eating

the organization and the organization becomes caught up in being a
volume club.
/snip

We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and
getting a T1 line

Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally 
attest
to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your 
proposing)

than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP

Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group
faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the
buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will
require cash up front for the purchase

So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses
Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase that 
500

pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake)
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store 
stuff
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics 
guy to

repackage / ship stuff

On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to 
purchasing
the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to unforseen 
things
that always happen in deployments (e.g.,  lightning, customers don't 
sign

on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town)

So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell 
excess units


Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative fee /
margin to compensate)

In the meantime, either

1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy line, 
and all

WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a huge
loss)
2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new flavor of the
month and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/ 
$100k

worth of boat anchors

-Charles


---
CWLab
Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com







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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-13 Thread A. Huppenthal

cool

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:


I'll make some calls tomorrow and see what the distributors say.

Travis Johnson wrote:


Hi,

There are so many risks that _someone_ is going to have to assume. 
Example: If I say put me down for 20 units and here's my credit 
card. You place the order with the distributor, and I get my items. 
However, either the distributor will put each order in different 
names (thus, once the boss finds out it will be done), or they all go 
under a single name. Now, with my credit card being charged, but only 
a single invoice created for the big order, I can contact my credit 
card company and file a chargeback. There will be no invoice for the 
purchase, and nothing in my name. I just got 20 radios for free and 
the distributor just lost big money.


This is only one example. There are 10 other risks to this project 
and someone will have to take them all...


Why not just lease your CPE? Even doing 25 at a time, I think you can 
get 30 or 60 days before your first payment.


Travis
Microserv

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

Basically what I propose (in a nutshell) is going to a the 
distrobuters and saying this.  I have ten or twenty or whatever 
WISPs and we all want to buy ten units of *insert brand here* and 
have them all shipped to different addresses and charged to 
different accounts.  What are you willing to do to accomidate us?   
I know there are a number of distobuters out there.  Ones that do 
millions worth of gear all the way down to ones that operate WISPs 
and became resellers of the gear they use in order to get their 
volume up.  If ten people can install ten a month.  That is 1200 a 
year.  If we look, I bet there is a reseller somewhere who wants to 
increase volume by 1200 a year.  5k a year wouldn't be stretching 
the imagination too far either.


Am I dumb here guys?  Why wouldn't this work?

Tom DeReggi wrote:


Charles,

I fully second your post.
Well said.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - From: Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 9:25 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices


snip
You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up 
eating

the organization and the organization becomes caught up in being a
volume club.
/snip

We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and
getting a T1 line

Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally 
attest
to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your 
proposing)

than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP

Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group
faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the
buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will
require cash up front for the purchase

So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses
Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase 
that 500

pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake)
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store 
stuff
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics 
guy to

repackage / ship stuff

On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to 
purchasing
the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to 
unforseen things
that always happen in deployments (e.g.,  lightning, customers 
don't sign

on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town)

So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell 
excess units


Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative 
fee /

margin to compensate)

In the meantime, either

1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy line, 
and all
WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a 
huge

loss)
2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new flavor of 
the
month and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/ 
$100k

worth of boat anchors

-Charles


---
CWLab
Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com









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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-13 Thread Brian Rohrbacher
I believe we can make it happen.  Pretty much, few of us will go in and 
buy together.  Probably going to just be a small group to stay under 
moto's radar.  Enough to get a 100 pack at a time.


A. Huppenthal wrote:

I like the 100 pack - but Mote sometimes gives away a couple of 
backhuals with a 500 pack and other promos.. They change from time to 
time, whomever wants to run with it will have to make some calls. once 
we go underground on this deal, we can have a couple of 
teleconferences, and I'll cough up my secrets. To some degree its not 
a good idea to get to the precise suppliers, prices, deals and so on 
on a public list.. Sometimes Moto takes a dim view of group buys, and 
snaps the elastic of the distributor in unpleasent ways


Travis Johnson wrote:

Also, how much of a real savings are you going to see buying a 500 
pack compared with a 100 pack? I'm not sure how the pricing structure 
works with Moto, but with other places the biggest savings is from 
10/20 packs to 100 or 250 packs. Going from 100 to 500 yields very 
minimal changes ($10 per SM/SU would be my guess).


Travis
Microserv

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

Well, I'm not a Canopy user, but am close to making the leap.  
(would have done it long time ago if gear was a reasonable price)


Whoever buys the gear.  Group name or Joe Blow.
Attention Canopy users how are warranty issues handled?  If I buy 
gear on ebay can I send it into Moto for warranty?  Or is it void 
because I didn't buy from authorized reseller?


Brian

Travis Johnson wrote:

And, the other issue is the purchase will be made in the group 
name, so how do you handle warranty issues?


Travis
Microserv

Charles Wu wrote:


snip
You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up 
eating the organization and the organization becomes caught up in 
being a volume club.

/snip

We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP 
and

getting a T1 line

Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can 
personally attest
to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your 
proposing)

than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP

Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying 
group
faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that 
the
buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor 
will

require cash up front for the purchase

So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses
Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase 
that 500

pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake)
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to 
store stuff
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics 
guy to

repackage / ship stuff

On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to 
purchasing
the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to 
unforseen things
that always happen in deployments (e.g.,  lightning, customers 
don't sign

on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town)

So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell 
excess units


Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative 
fee /

margin to compensate)

In the meantime, either

1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy 
line, and all
WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a 
huge

loss)
2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new flavor 
of the
month and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/ 
$100k

worth of boat anchors

-Charles


---
CWLab
Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com
 











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Reliable Internet, LLC
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Cell 269-838-8338

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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-13 Thread Brian Rohrbacher
I sure am not going to take anyone's money.  :)  Too bad you don't use 
900, that is what I am trying to use to get this started.  If you could 
set us a list asap, that would be great.  Then we could add a dozen or 
so people to the list (people trusted and known)and talk about the details.


A. Huppenthal wrote:


It'll work, you just do it. The details are all bulls*it.

Set up a closed email list for people who are interested. If you can 
wait a week or two I can setup an email list for that, if you like. 
People who aren't interested are going to give you one million reason 
why the earth is flat, or whatever their view is.


My only concern is that someone gets screwed because there is a liar, 
cheat, thief in the process. Else, its cheap gear for cheap prices 
that *works*. However, if your don't know that, likely you'll need an 
AP. hmmm... if anyone wants to borrow a 5.7 AP from me, you can. I'll 
lend it out for a week, you pay the post both ways and *if* it come 
back broken, *you* agree to replace it in 10 days with a working one. 
Turns out i have enough canopy stuff until late Jan. Contact me 
off-list if you like. Frankly if the group buy guy wants to handle 
loaners to the membership/group that's find with me. I'll toss $100 in 
the kitty toward 4 loaner APs - a 5.2, 5.7, 2.4 (junk) and 900 mhz 
(I'll never use).. Got a paypal account, I'll send the money now.



Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

Basically what I propose (in a nutshell) is going to a the 
distrobuters and saying this.  I have ten or twenty or whatever WISPs 
and we all want to buy ten units of *insert brand here* and have them 
all shipped to different addresses and charged to different 
accounts.  What are you willing to do to accomidate us?   I know 
there are a number of distobuters out there.  Ones that do millions 
worth of gear all the way down to ones that operate WISPs and became 
resellers of the gear they use in order to get their volume up.  If 
ten people can install ten a month.  That is 1200 a year.  If we 
look, I bet there is a reseller somewhere who wants to increase 
volume by 1200 a year.  5k a year wouldn't be stretching the 
imagination too far either.


Am I dumb here guys?  Why wouldn't this work?

Tom DeReggi wrote:


Charles,

I fully second your post.
Well said.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - From: Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 9:25 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices


snip
You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up 
eating

the organization and the organization becomes caught up in being a
volume club.
/snip

We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and
getting a T1 line

Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally 
attest
to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your 
proposing)

than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP

Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group
faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the
buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will
require cash up front for the purchase

So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses
Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase that 
500

pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake)
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store 
stuff
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics 
guy to

repackage / ship stuff

On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to 
purchasing
the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to unforseen 
things
that always happen in deployments (e.g.,  lightning, customers don't 
sign

on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town)

So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell 
excess units


Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative fee /
margin to compensate)

In the meantime, either

1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy line, 
and all

WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a huge
loss)
2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new flavor of the
month and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/ 
$100k

worth of boat anchors

-Charles


---
CWLab
Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com







--
Brian Rohrbacher
Reliable Internet, LLC
www.reliableinter.net
Cell 269-838-8338

Caught up in the Air 1 Thess. 4:17

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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-13 Thread Brian Rohrbacher
The var said he'd rather not do credit cards (extra 3% if you want it) 
but he'll do that math and see.  He assured me that the way we're doing 
it, he is the only one who could get stuck.  Besides, this won't be 
open for public.  This is just a few of us who are going to buy 
together.  We all know each other.


A. Huppenthal wrote:

The risk should be - the guy who gets my money sends me my SMs.. These 
things come in single unit boxes, so repacking them isn't a huge deal. 
10 boxes of 10 each? I think that's a reasonable limit. Trusting 
someone on the list to do the buy with my $2600 is fine. I'll do some 
due diligience on the group buyer. If there's some references, an 
address, a person we know, we'll that's all fine wit me. Paypal has 
some control over what you suggest is a hole.


Travis Johnson wrote:


Hi,

There are so many risks that _someone_ is going to have to assume. 
Example: If I say put me down for 20 units and here's my credit 
card. You place the order with the distributor, and I get my items. 
However, either the distributor will put each order in different 
names (thus, once the boss finds out it will be done), or they all go 
under a single name. Now, with my credit card being charged, but only 
a single invoice created for the big order, I can contact my credit 
card company and file a chargeback. There will be no invoice for the 
purchase, and nothing in my name. I just got 20 radios for free and 
the distributor just lost big money.


This is only one example. There are 10 other risks to this project 
and someone will have to take them all...


Why not just lease your CPE? Even doing 25 at a time, I think you can 
get 30 or 60 days before your first payment.


Travis
Microserv

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

Basically what I propose (in a nutshell) is going to a the 
distrobuters and saying this.  I have ten or twenty or whatever 
WISPs and we all want to buy ten units of *insert brand here* and 
have them all shipped to different addresses and charged to 
different accounts.  What are you willing to do to accomidate us?   
I know there are a number of distobuters out there.  Ones that do 
millions worth of gear all the way down to ones that operate WISPs 
and became resellers of the gear they use in order to get their 
volume up.  If ten people can install ten a month.  That is 1200 a 
year.  If we look, I bet there is a reseller somewhere who wants to 
increase volume by 1200 a year.  5k a year wouldn't be stretching 
the imagination too far either.


Am I dumb here guys?  Why wouldn't this work?

Tom DeReggi wrote:


Charles,

I fully second your post.
Well said.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - From: Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 9:25 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices


snip
You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up 
eating

the organization and the organization becomes caught up in being a
volume club.
/snip

We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and
getting a T1 line

Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally 
attest
to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your 
proposing)

than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP

Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group
faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the
buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will
require cash up front for the purchase

So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses
Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase 
that 500

pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake)
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store 
stuff
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics 
guy to

repackage / ship stuff

On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to 
purchasing
the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to 
unforseen things
that always happen in deployments (e.g.,  lightning, customers 
don't sign

on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town)

So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell 
excess units


Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative 
fee /

margin to compensate)

In the meantime, either

1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy line, 
and all
WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a 
huge

loss)
2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new flavor of 
the
month and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/ 
$100k

worth of boat anchors

-Charles


---
CWLab
Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com









--
Brian Rohrbacher
Reliable Internet, LLC
www.reliableinter.net
Cell 269

RE: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-13 Thread Charles Wu
 I know you don't support the idea of group buys.

It's not that I don't support the concept, truthfully, I could care less
whether you buy your gear from a distributor, reseller, or direct from the
manufacturer

I have just seen it implemented (rather unsuccessfully) many times by ISPs
such as yourselves, and am trying to help you avoid making such a mistake

The idea of a WISP buying group is nothing original, for the past few years,
I've seen this idea come up at least once a month on some WISP listserv /
forum / etc...

However, if it was really that easy and simple -- why hasn't it been
implemented yet on a consistent long term basis?

Here's my observation

-The guys that fail with their buying group end up getting their inventory
liquidated on Ebay, go bankrupt and disappear

-The guys that just barely sell their inventory realize how much of a PITA
the organization/operation is, and go back to buying from their
distributor/reseller/etc

-The guys that are extremely successful become resellers/distributors

-Charles

---
CWLab
Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com 


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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-13 Thread Brian Rohrbacher




I'm getting a lot of interest off list on the group idea. Can anyone
(principal member) set up a mail server for use to talk about this.
ASAP!

Thanks
Brian

Charles Wu wrote:

  
I know you don't support the idea of group buys.

  
  
It's not that I don't support the concept, truthfully, I could care less
whether you buy your gear from a distributor, reseller, or direct from the
manufacturer

I have just seen it implemented (rather unsuccessfully) many times by ISPs
such as yourselves, and am trying to help you avoid making such a mistake

The idea of a WISP buying group is nothing original, for the past few years,
I've seen this idea come up at least once a month on some WISP listserv /
forum / etc...

However, if it was really that "easy and simple" -- why hasn't it been
implemented yet on a consistent long term basis?

Here's my observation

-The guys that fail with their buying group end up getting their inventory
liquidated on Ebay, go bankrupt and disappear

-The guys that just barely sell their inventory realize how much of a PITA
the organization/operation is, and go back to buying from their
distributor/reseller/etc

-The guys that are extremely successful become resellers/distributors

-Charles

---
CWLab
Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com 


  


-- 
Brian Rohrbacher
Reliable Internet, LLC
www.reliableinter.net
Cell 269-838-8338

"Caught up in the Air" 1 Thess. 4:17


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RE: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-13 Thread Charles Wu
Brian, I commend you on taking the initiative and (hopefully) proving my
naysaying wrong

However, waving my magic wand (or maybe I'm just full of @[EMAIL PROTECTED]), I 
predict
the following 2 outcomes will occur:

1. Brian will not be able to get enough interest / coordination / payment
for the buying club to succeed, and nothing will be bought

2. Brian will be smart enough to coordinate the buying club, but will
realize that the coordination of the buying club is a lot of effort (effort
that takes away time from running his WISP) -- at that point, he will either

(a) stop doing the buying club, since he will need to address his day-to-day
business needs / obligations / demands

(b) continune doing the buying club, but w/ an initial moderate markup (to
handle his administration costs) -- over time, if he continues to succeed,
he will evolve into a full fledged reseller / distributor for WISPs
providing various value-added services to varying levels of customers, and
the middleman will return

-Charles

---
CWLab
Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com 




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RE: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-13 Thread Charles Wu
Title: Message


I'm 
getting a lot of interest off list on the group idea. Can anyone 
(principal member) set up a mail server for use to talk about this. 
ASAP!

Call me a 
profit-hungering leech, but if I were you, I would try to set up the listserv 
myself

Remember, the 
hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of dollars that Bullit made off of 
WISPCON  Part-15 all started from a simple Orinoco listserv (on a windows 
box too)

-Charles

P.S. better do it 
before that leech formerly known as Charles steals your idea 
wink
---CWLabTechnology 
Architectshttp://www.cwlab.com 

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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-13 Thread A. Huppenthal

What club are you talking about Charles?

I predict you'll be asking Brian to participate in the next buy Charles. :-)

Charles Wu wrote:


Brian, I commend you on taking the initiative and (hopefully) proving my
naysaying wrong

However, waving my magic wand (or maybe I'm just full of @[EMAIL PROTECTED]), I 
predict
the following 2 outcomes will occur:

1. Brian will not be able to get enough interest / coordination / payment
for the buying club to succeed, and nothing will be bought

2. Brian will be smart enough to coordinate the buying club, but will
realize that the coordination of the buying club is a lot of effort (effort
that takes away time from running his WISP) -- at that point, he will either

(a) stop doing the buying club, since he will need to address his day-to-day
business needs / obligations / demands

(b) continune doing the buying club, but w/ an initial moderate markup (to
handle his administration costs) -- over time, if he continues to succeed,
he will evolve into a full fledged reseller / distributor for WISPs
providing various value-added services to varying levels of customers, and
the middleman will return

-Charles

---
CWLab
Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com 





 



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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-13 Thread A. Huppenthal
Yes, (joke) let's assure ourselves that all things are motivated by 
increasing one individual's bank account vs. the group's membership's 
benefits. Part of the reason I'm not participating in Part 15 et.al. is 
that the organizers of any membership benefit have to do so with the 
assumption that the GOAL of the effort is member benefits, not organizer 
benefits from organizing it.


How much money have you made off WISPA John, Rich, Matt, Marlon, et.al? 
I know its a rethorical question - I know how much - none.


If we're always looking at ways we can take the membership for a dollar 
ride we're not in the right groove.


Isn't it enough that not only the organizer gets a benefit by getting 
his costs down, but that he's going to have lots of other participants 
potentially shaking his hand and thanking him for the effort? In this 
organization, I hope so.



Charles Wu wrote:

I'm getting a lot of interest off list on the group idea.  Can anyone 

(principal member) set up a mail server for use to talk about this.  ASAP!
 
Call me a profit-hungering leech, but if I were you, I would try to 
set up the listserv myself
 
Remember, the hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of dollars that 
Bullit made off of WISPCON  Part-15 all started from a simple Orinoco 
listserv (on a windows box too)
 
-Charles
 
P.S. better do it before that leech formerly known as Charles steals 
your idea wink


---
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Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com http://www.cwlab.com/



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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-13 Thread Brian Rohrbacher
That would be great.  People are asking me about 5.2, 5.7, 2.4, as well 
as 900.  I just want 900 for now.  If we get a place to talk about it, 
someone else can coordinate the same with each product.


A. Huppenthal wrote:


Brian,

I'll see if can do this shortly.

-Alex

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

I'm getting a lot of interest off list on the group idea.  Can anyone 
(principal member) set up a mail server for use to talk about this.  
ASAP!


Thanks
Brian

Charles Wu wrote:


I know you don't support the idea of group buys.
  



It's not that I don't support the concept, truthfully, I could care 
less
whether you buy your gear from a distributor, reseller, or direct 
from the

manufacturer

I have just seen it implemented (rather unsuccessfully) many times 
by ISPs
such as yourselves, and am trying to help you avoid making such a 
mistake


The idea of a WISP buying group is nothing original, for the past 
few years,
I've seen this idea come up at least once a month on some WISP 
listserv /

forum / etc...

However, if it was really that easy and simple -- why hasn't it been
implemented yet on a consistent long term basis?

Here's my observation

-The guys that fail with their buying group end up getting their 
inventory

liquidated on Ebay, go bankrupt and disappear

-The guys that just barely sell their inventory realize how much of 
a PITA

the organization/operation is, and go back to buying from their
distributor/reseller/etc

-The guys that are extremely successful become resellers/distributors

-Charles

---
CWLab
Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com

 



--
Brian Rohrbacher
Reliable Internet, LLC
www.reliableinter.net
Cell 269-838-8338

Caught up in the Air 1 Thess. 4:17





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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-13 Thread A. Huppenthal
You should be getting a notice of the mailing list creation. Will walk 
through the list manager steps and get you the listmanger's account 
information. Will be using rfarc.org as the base address - a local 
non-profit ham radio domain that has private list features. Let's see 
how it goes.


Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

All I know is I talked to a VAR and was assured I could get the prices 
I requested and have the process work the way I asked about.
I'm just doing a little leg work to see what happens.  When I compare 
what I can buy now, a $550 single pack.  Because I can't even afford 
25 pack.  To the 100 pack prices of something like $260.
It's a no brainer Charles.  The $290 saving per radios covers any 
admin fees in savings by far.  If you want Canopy radios, hit me off 
list.  The only way I currently plan of profiting from this is the 
$290 savings on each radio.  I just want 900 gear I can afford.


Brian

Charles Wu wrote:


Brian, I commend you on taking the initiative and (hopefully) proving my
naysaying wrong

However, waving my magic wand (or maybe I'm just full of @[EMAIL PROTECTED]), I 
predict

the following 2 outcomes will occur:

1. Brian will not be able to get enough interest / coordination / 
payment

for the buying club to succeed, and nothing will be bought

2. Brian will be smart enough to coordinate the buying club, but will
realize that the coordination of the buying club is a lot of effort 
(effort
that takes away time from running his WISP) -- at that point, he will 
either


(a) stop doing the buying club, since he will need to address his 
day-to-day

business needs / obligations / demands

(b) continune doing the buying club, but w/ an initial moderate 
markup (to
handle his administration costs) -- over time, if he continues to 
succeed,

he will evolve into a full fledged reseller / distributor for WISPs
providing various value-added services to varying levels of 
customers, and

the middleman will return

-Charles

---
CWLab
Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com



 





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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-13 Thread A. Huppenthal

we're using 'mailman'  listserv by the way.

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

All I know is I talked to a VAR and was assured I could get the prices 
I requested and have the process work the way I asked about.
I'm just doing a little leg work to see what happens.  When I compare 
what I can buy now, a $550 single pack.  Because I can't even afford 
25 pack.  To the 100 pack prices of something like $260.
It's a no brainer Charles.  The $290 saving per radios covers any 
admin fees in savings by far.  If you want Canopy radios, hit me off 
list.  The only way I currently plan of profiting from this is the 
$290 savings on each radio.  I just want 900 gear I can afford.


Brian

Charles Wu wrote:


Brian, I commend you on taking the initiative and (hopefully) proving my
naysaying wrong

However, waving my magic wand (or maybe I'm just full of @[EMAIL PROTECTED]), I 
predict

the following 2 outcomes will occur:

1. Brian will not be able to get enough interest / coordination / 
payment

for the buying club to succeed, and nothing will be bought

2. Brian will be smart enough to coordinate the buying club, but will
realize that the coordination of the buying club is a lot of effort 
(effort
that takes away time from running his WISP) -- at that point, he will 
either


(a) stop doing the buying club, since he will need to address his 
day-to-day

business needs / obligations / demands

(b) continune doing the buying club, but w/ an initial moderate 
markup (to
handle his administration costs) -- over time, if he continues to 
succeed,

he will evolve into a full fledged reseller / distributor for WISPs
providing various value-added services to varying levels of 
customers, and

the middleman will return

-Charles

---
CWLab
Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com



 





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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-13 Thread A. Huppenthal

Brian,
I'm going to take this off this list for now. I'll send you a note 
directly. The list is setup.

-Alex

A. Huppenthal wrote:


Brian,

I'll see if can do this shortly.

-Alex

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

I'm getting a lot of interest off list on the group idea.  Can anyone 
(principal member) set up a mail server for use to talk about this.  
ASAP!


Thanks
Brian

Charles Wu wrote:


I know you don't support the idea of group buys.
  



It's not that I don't support the concept, truthfully, I could care 
less
whether you buy your gear from a distributor, reseller, or direct 
from the

manufacturer

I have just seen it implemented (rather unsuccessfully) many times 
by ISPs
such as yourselves, and am trying to help you avoid making such a 
mistake


The idea of a WISP buying group is nothing original, for the past 
few years,
I've seen this idea come up at least once a month on some WISP 
listserv /

forum / etc...

However, if it was really that easy and simple -- why hasn't it been
implemented yet on a consistent long term basis?

Here's my observation

-The guys that fail with their buying group end up getting their 
inventory

liquidated on Ebay, go bankrupt and disappear

-The guys that just barely sell their inventory realize how much of 
a PITA

the organization/operation is, and go back to buying from their
distributor/reseller/etc

-The guys that are extremely successful become resellers/distributors

-Charles

---
CWLab
Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com

 



--
Brian Rohrbacher
Reliable Internet, LLC
www.reliableinter.net
Cell 269-838-8338

Caught up in the Air 1 Thess. 4:17





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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-13 Thread A. Huppenthal
I like the recent post about monitors too. Frankly the BND stuff for 
$500 is good, but I'd use at least twice as much of it :-) if it were 
$250. ha!


I sent you a note directly, I'll hang in there for a while tonight to 
get the listserver doing precisely what it should.



Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

That would be great.  People are asking me about 5.2, 5.7, 2.4, as 
well as 900.  I just want 900 for now.  If we get a place to talk 
about it, someone else can coordinate the same with each product.


A. Huppenthal wrote:


Brian,

I'll see if can do this shortly.

-Alex

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

I'm getting a lot of interest off list on the group idea.  Can 
anyone (principal member) set up a mail server for use to talk about 
this.  ASAP!


Thanks
Brian

Charles Wu wrote:


I know you don't support the idea of group buys.
  




It's not that I don't support the concept, truthfully, I could care 
less
whether you buy your gear from a distributor, reseller, or direct 
from the

manufacturer

I have just seen it implemented (rather unsuccessfully) many times 
by ISPs
such as yourselves, and am trying to help you avoid making such a 
mistake


The idea of a WISP buying group is nothing original, for the past 
few years,
I've seen this idea come up at least once a month on some WISP 
listserv /

forum / etc...

However, if it was really that easy and simple -- why hasn't it been
implemented yet on a consistent long term basis?

Here's my observation

-The guys that fail with their buying group end up getting their 
inventory

liquidated on Ebay, go bankrupt and disappear

-The guys that just barely sell their inventory realize how much of 
a PITA

the organization/operation is, and go back to buying from their
distributor/reseller/etc

-The guys that are extremely successful become resellers/distributors

-Charles

---
CWLab
Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com

 



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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-13 Thread Brian Rohrbacher

Your a good man.

A. Huppenthal wrote:

I like the recent post about monitors too. Frankly the BND stuff for 
$500 is good, but I'd use at least twice as much of it :-) if it were 
$250. ha!


I sent you a note directly, I'll hang in there for a while tonight to 
get the listserver doing precisely what it should.



Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

That would be great.  People are asking me about 5.2, 5.7, 2.4, as 
well as 900.  I just want 900 for now.  If we get a place to talk 
about it, someone else can coordinate the same with each product.


A. Huppenthal wrote:


Brian,

I'll see if can do this shortly.

-Alex

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

I'm getting a lot of interest off list on the group idea.  Can 
anyone (principal member) set up a mail server for use to talk 
about this.  ASAP!


Thanks
Brian

Charles Wu wrote:


I know you don't support the idea of group buys.
  





It's not that I don't support the concept, truthfully, I could 
care less
whether you buy your gear from a distributor, reseller, or direct 
from the

manufacturer

I have just seen it implemented (rather unsuccessfully) many times 
by ISPs
such as yourselves, and am trying to help you avoid making such a 
mistake


The idea of a WISP buying group is nothing original, for the past 
few years,
I've seen this idea come up at least once a month on some WISP 
listserv /

forum / etc...

However, if it was really that easy and simple -- why hasn't it 
been

implemented yet on a consistent long term basis?

Here's my observation

-The guys that fail with their buying group end up getting their 
inventory

liquidated on Ebay, go bankrupt and disappear

-The guys that just barely sell their inventory realize how much 
of a PITA

the organization/operation is, and go back to buying from their
distributor/reseller/etc

-The guys that are extremely successful become resellers/distributors

-Charles

---
CWLab
Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com

 



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Reliable Internet, LLC
www.reliableinter.net
Cell 269-838-8338

Caught up in the Air 1 Thess. 4:17









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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-13 Thread A. Huppenthal


The list server is running, Brian is working on the final setup / config.
Sorry, its I thought I could do it in just an hour, but I've never set 
this software up before so it took 2 hours.


I'm guessing the list will be up and running.

Any suggestions on how we can confirm that the person attempting to 
signup for the group buy listserv is actually a principle member?


I don't think we want a list of all the members distributed. I was 
thinking a simple script might allow an authorized person to query *if* 
a certain email address is a principle member or not.. hmmm... a puzzle..


I guess the person asking for the list membership could do so on the 
principle member list @ wispa.


Brian Rohrbacher wrote:


Your a good man.

A. Huppenthal wrote:

I like the recent post about monitors too. Frankly the BND stuff for 
$500 is good, but I'd use at least twice as much of it :-) if it were 
$250. ha!


I sent you a note directly, I'll hang in there for a while tonight to 
get the listserver doing precisely what it should.



Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

That would be great.  People are asking me about 5.2, 5.7, 2.4, as 
well as 900.  I just want 900 for now.  If we get a place to talk 
about it, someone else can coordinate the same with each product.


A. Huppenthal wrote:


Brian,

I'll see if can do this shortly.

-Alex

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

I'm getting a lot of interest off list on the group idea.  Can 
anyone (principal member) set up a mail server for use to talk 
about this.  ASAP!


Thanks
Brian

Charles Wu wrote:


I know you don't support the idea of group buys.
  






It's not that I don't support the concept, truthfully, I could 
care less
whether you buy your gear from a distributor, reseller, or direct 
from the

manufacturer

I have just seen it implemented (rather unsuccessfully) many 
times by ISPs
such as yourselves, and am trying to help you avoid making such a 
mistake


The idea of a WISP buying group is nothing original, for the past 
few years,
I've seen this idea come up at least once a month on some WISP 
listserv /

forum / etc...

However, if it was really that easy and simple -- why hasn't it 
been

implemented yet on a consistent long term basis?

Here's my observation

-The guys that fail with their buying group end up getting their 
inventory

liquidated on Ebay, go bankrupt and disappear

-The guys that just barely sell their inventory realize how much 
of a PITA

the organization/operation is, and go back to buying from their
distributor/reseller/etc

-The guys that are extremely successful become 
resellers/distributors


-Charles

---
CWLab
Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com

 



--
Brian Rohrbacher
Reliable Internet, LLC
www.reliableinter.net
Cell 269-838-8338

Caught up in the Air 1 Thess. 4:17











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RE: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-12 Thread G.Villarini
Hey Charles ... long time no see ... any winog on 2006 ?

Gino A. Villarini, 
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.aeronetpr.com
787.767.7466

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Charles Wu
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 10:26 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

snip
You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up eating 
the organization and the organization becomes caught up in being a 
volume club.
/snip

We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and
getting a T1 line

Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally attest
to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your proposing)
than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP

Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group
faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the
buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will
require cash up front for the purchase

So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses
Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase that 500
pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake)
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store stuff
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics guy to
repackage / ship stuff

On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to purchasing
the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to unforseen things
that always happen in deployments (e.g.,  lightning, customers don't sign
on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town)

So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell excess units

Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative fee /
margin to compensate)

In the meantime, either

1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy line, and all
WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a huge
loss)
2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new flavor of the
month and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/ $100k
worth of boat anchors

-Charles


---
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Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com 

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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-12 Thread Travis Johnson
And, the other issue is the purchase will be made in the group name, 
so how do you handle warranty issues?


Travis
Microserv

Charles Wu wrote:


snip
You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up eating 
the organization and the organization becomes caught up in being a 
volume club.

/snip

We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and
getting a T1 line

Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally attest
to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your proposing)
than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP

Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group
faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the
buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will
require cash up front for the purchase

So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses
Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase that 500
pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake)
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store stuff
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics guy to
repackage / ship stuff

On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to purchasing
the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to unforseen things
that always happen in deployments (e.g.,  lightning, customers don't sign
on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town)

So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell excess units

Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative fee /
margin to compensate)

In the meantime, either

1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy line, and all
WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a huge
loss)
2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new flavor of the
month and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/ $100k
worth of boat anchors

-Charles


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Technology Architects
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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-12 Thread Brian Rohrbacher
I have never done a group buy, but this is how I would approach it. 

First step.  Principal Members only.  You want a deal, fork over 200 
some bucks and support the industry.
Second step.  Find 10 people who want ten units.  (500 if possible, but 
prolly 100 pack to start)

Third step.  Go to moto website and look up resellers.
fourth step.  Call resellers and get quote.  Say look here.  I have a 
buying group.  I want 100 SMs, charged to 10 credit cards and shipped to 
10 addresses.  Send me a quote to email  Forward quote to next reseller 
and go from there.  Whoever is cheaper wins.  If they want the business 
of the buying group, they better figure out how to cut a deal.  Am I 
acting like a know it all Charles?  Would all the resellers say screw 
you if I approached like this?
If all resellers say we can't do this.then I would (big trust here) 
run all cards through paypal and pay with one lump sum and re ship from 
here.  Now add the 1.9% for paypal and add more for extra 
shippingdon't know what that would be, but it would be figured 
before hand.


I just made all that up, but it seems like it would work.  Only question 
is how warranty is handled.  By MAC addy or by who bought the radio.


Someone let me know if my approach is out of line.  Never done this and 
might be reinventing the wheel (I hope it rolls)


Brian

A. Huppenthal wrote:


Charles,

I know you don't support the idea of group buys. Enough said. Fact is 
I've done group buys with high-end equipment before - it wasn't 
difficult at all. If you are comparing a public distributor to a 
closed membership buying club, you aren't comparing apples to apples. 
I sure as hell don't want to create a distributor organization.


However, as our discussion continues, I might be willing to send Jim, 
George, Brian or whomever offers a group buy $2600 for 10 Canopy SMs 
if the buy is 100 units and we're all lined up. I don't need support, 
training, stocking, any of the services that distributors offer. 
Frankly, I don't need my distributor under cutting me to sell direct 
to customers. You have your pros and cons for going to distributors 
for *everything*. Certainly what's being discussed here isn't 
pretending to create a distributor that has *everything*..


Frankly I think the board with the exception of myself, uniformly 
doesn't support group buys.


The buyers create the relatonship for the purpose of the buy, it ends 
when the product is delivered.



Charles Wu wrote:


snip
You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up 
eating the organization and the organization becomes caught up in 
being a volume club.

/snip

We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and
getting a T1 line

Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally 
attest
to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your 
proposing)

than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP

Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group
faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the
buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will
require cash up front for the purchase

So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses
Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase that 500
pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake)
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store 
stuff
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics 
guy to

repackage / ship stuff

On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to 
purchasing
the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to unforseen 
things
that always happen in deployments (e.g.,  lightning, customers don't 
sign

on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town)

So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell excess 
units


Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative fee /
margin to compensate)

In the meantime, either

1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy line, 
and all

WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a huge
loss)
2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new flavor of the
month and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/ $100k
worth of boat anchors

-Charles


---
CWLab
Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com
 





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Reliable Internet, LLC
www.reliableinter.net
Cell 269-838-8338

Caught up in the Air 1 Thess. 4:17

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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-12 Thread Brian Rohrbacher
Well, I'm not a Canopy user, but am close to making the leap.  (would 
have done it long time ago if gear was a reasonable price)


Whoever buys the gear.  Group name or Joe Blow. 

Attention Canopy users how are warranty issues handled?  If I buy gear 
on ebay can I send it into Moto for warranty?  Or is it void because I 
didn't buy from authorized reseller?


Brian

Travis Johnson wrote:

And, the other issue is the purchase will be made in the group name, 
so how do you handle warranty issues?


Travis
Microserv

Charles Wu wrote:


snip
You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up 
eating the organization and the organization becomes caught up in 
being a volume club.

/snip

We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and
getting a T1 line

Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally 
attest
to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your 
proposing)

than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP

Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group
faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the
buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will
require cash up front for the purchase

So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses
Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase that 500
pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake)
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store 
stuff
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics 
guy to

repackage / ship stuff

On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to 
purchasing
the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to unforseen 
things
that always happen in deployments (e.g.,  lightning, customers don't 
sign

on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town)

So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell excess 
units


Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative fee /
margin to compensate)

In the meantime, either

1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy line, 
and all

WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a huge
loss)
2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new flavor of the
month and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/ $100k
worth of boat anchors

-Charles


---
CWLab
Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com
 





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Reliable Internet, LLC
www.reliableinter.net
Cell 269-838-8338

Caught up in the Air 1 Thess. 4:17

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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-12 Thread Tom DeReggi

Charles,

I fully second your post.
Well said.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 9:25 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices


snip
You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up eating
the organization and the organization becomes caught up in being a
volume club.
/snip

We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and
getting a T1 line

Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally attest
to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your proposing)
than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP

Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group
faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the
buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will
require cash up front for the purchase

So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses
Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase that 500
pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake)
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store stuff
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics guy to
repackage / ship stuff

On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to purchasing
the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to unforseen things
that always happen in deployments (e.g.,  lightning, customers don't sign
on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town)

So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell excess units

Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative fee /
margin to compensate)

In the meantime, either

1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy line, and all
WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a huge
loss)
2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new flavor of the
month and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/ $100k
worth of boat anchors

-Charles


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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-12 Thread Brian Rohrbacher
Basically what I propose (in a nutshell) is going to a the distrobuters 
and saying this.  I have ten or twenty or whatever WISPs and we all want 
to buy ten units of *insert brand here* and have them all shipped to 
different addresses and charged to different accounts.  What are you 
willing to do to accomidate us?   I know there are a number of 
distobuters out there.  Ones that do millions worth of gear all the way 
down to ones that operate WISPs and became resellers of the gear they 
use in order to get their volume up.  If ten people can install ten a 
month.  That is 1200 a year.  If we look, I bet there is a reseller 
somewhere who wants to increase volume by 1200 a year.  5k a year 
wouldn't be stretching the imagination too far either.


Am I dumb here guys?  Why wouldn't this work?

Tom DeReggi wrote:


Charles,

I fully second your post.
Well said.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - From: Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 9:25 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices


snip
You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up eating
the organization and the organization becomes caught up in being a
volume club.
/snip

We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and
getting a T1 line

Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally 
attest
to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your 
proposing)

than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP

Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group
faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the
buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will
require cash up front for the purchase

So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses
Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase that 500
pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake)
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store stuff
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics guy to
repackage / ship stuff

On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to purchasing
the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to unforseen 
things

that always happen in deployments (e.g.,  lightning, customers don't sign
on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town)

So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell excess 
units


Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative fee /
margin to compensate)

In the meantime, either

1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy line, 
and all

WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a huge
loss)
2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new flavor of the
month and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/ $100k
worth of boat anchors

-Charles


---
CWLab
Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com



--
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Reliable Internet, LLC
www.reliableinter.net
Cell 269-838-8338

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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-12 Thread Travis Johnson

Hi,

There are so many risks that _someone_ is going to have to assume. 
Example: If I say put me down for 20 units and here's my credit card. 
You place the order with the distributor, and I get my items. However, 
either the distributor will put each order in different names (thus, 
once the boss finds out it will be done), or they all go under a single 
name. Now, with my credit card being charged, but only a single invoice 
created for the big order, I can contact my credit card company and 
file a chargeback. There will be no invoice for the purchase, and 
nothing in my name. I just got 20 radios for free and the distributor 
just lost big money.


This is only one example. There are 10 other risks to this project and 
someone will have to take them all...


Why not just lease your CPE? Even doing 25 at a time, I think you can 
get 30 or 60 days before your first payment.


Travis
Microserv

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

Basically what I propose (in a nutshell) is going to a the 
distrobuters and saying this.  I have ten or twenty or whatever WISPs 
and we all want to buy ten units of *insert brand here* and have them 
all shipped to different addresses and charged to different accounts.  
What are you willing to do to accomidate us?   I know there are a 
number of distobuters out there.  Ones that do millions worth of gear 
all the way down to ones that operate WISPs and became resellers of 
the gear they use in order to get their volume up.  If ten people can 
install ten a month.  That is 1200 a year.  If we look, I bet there is 
a reseller somewhere who wants to increase volume by 1200 a year.  5k 
a year wouldn't be stretching the imagination too far either.


Am I dumb here guys?  Why wouldn't this work?

Tom DeReggi wrote:


Charles,

I fully second your post.
Well said.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - From: Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 9:25 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices


snip
You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up eating
the organization and the organization becomes caught up in being a
volume club.
/snip

We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and
getting a T1 line

Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally 
attest
to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your 
proposing)

than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP

Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group
faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the
buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will
require cash up front for the purchase

So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses
Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase that 500
pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake)
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store 
stuff
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics 
guy to

repackage / ship stuff

On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to 
purchasing
the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to unforseen 
things
that always happen in deployments (e.g.,  lightning, customers don't 
sign

on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town)

So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell excess 
units


Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative fee /
margin to compensate)

In the meantime, either

1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy line, 
and all

WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a huge
loss)
2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new flavor of the
month and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/ $100k
worth of boat anchors

-Charles


---
CWLab
Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com





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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices

2005-12-12 Thread Brian Rohrbacher

I'll make some calls tomorrow and see what the distributors say.

Travis Johnson wrote:


Hi,

There are so many risks that _someone_ is going to have to assume. 
Example: If I say put me down for 20 units and here's my credit 
card. You place the order with the distributor, and I get my items. 
However, either the distributor will put each order in different names 
(thus, once the boss finds out it will be done), or they all go under 
a single name. Now, with my credit card being charged, but only a 
single invoice created for the big order, I can contact my credit 
card company and file a chargeback. There will be no invoice for the 
purchase, and nothing in my name. I just got 20 radios for free and 
the distributor just lost big money.


This is only one example. There are 10 other risks to this project 
and someone will have to take them all...


Why not just lease your CPE? Even doing 25 at a time, I think you can 
get 30 or 60 days before your first payment.


Travis
Microserv

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

Basically what I propose (in a nutshell) is going to a the 
distrobuters and saying this.  I have ten or twenty or whatever WISPs 
and we all want to buy ten units of *insert brand here* and have them 
all shipped to different addresses and charged to different 
accounts.  What are you willing to do to accomidate us?   I know 
there are a number of distobuters out there.  Ones that do millions 
worth of gear all the way down to ones that operate WISPs and became 
resellers of the gear they use in order to get their volume up.  If 
ten people can install ten a month.  That is 1200 a year.  If we 
look, I bet there is a reseller somewhere who wants to increase 
volume by 1200 a year.  5k a year wouldn't be stretching the 
imagination too far either.


Am I dumb here guys?  Why wouldn't this work?

Tom DeReggi wrote:


Charles,

I fully second your post.
Well said.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - From: Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 9:25 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices


snip
You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up 
eating

the organization and the organization becomes caught up in being a
volume club.
/snip

We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and
getting a T1 line

Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally 
attest
to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your 
proposing)

than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP

Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group
faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the
buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will
require cash up front for the purchase

So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses
Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase that 
500

pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake)
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store 
stuff
Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics 
guy to

repackage / ship stuff

On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to 
purchasing
the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to unforseen 
things
that always happen in deployments (e.g.,  lightning, customers don't 
sign

on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town)

So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell 
excess units


Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative fee /
margin to compensate)

In the meantime, either

1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy line, 
and all

WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a huge
loss)
2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new flavor of the
month and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/ 
$100k

worth of boat anchors

-Charles


---
CWLab
Technology Architects
http://www.cwlab.com







--
Brian Rohrbacher
Reliable Internet, LLC
www.reliableinter.net
Cell 269-838-8338

Caught up in the Air 1 Thess. 4:17

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