Hi,
The duplicate posts are coming from a Globe IT server in the Netherlands.
I have blocked the IP address 217.148.170.240
So we'll see if this message comes back...
Please don't reply to this post.
Peter Firminger
***
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In case you hadn't heard:
http://www.avinio.blogspot.com/2007/06/netscape-navigator-90-released-first.
html
http://browser.netscape.com/
P
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This thread was closed a week ago.
Peter
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
AlexorbitSent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 8:02 PMTo:
This thread is really off topic so let's leave it here, but to correct
something (sorry Lachlan)...
This works on IIS as well, as long as it's a .shtml or .shtm file to tell IIS
to parse it for any required processing (like an include) before serving it
(unless your host doesn't allow them).
The much maligned br element is essential in our work. Sometimes we're not
just doing poetry and addresses.
Take for example the archive page of this very message (the one I'm replying
to).
http://webstandardsgroup.org/manage/archive.cfm?uid=C69ACE78-BB9A-910B-E6CC1A4A59BDF099
How else would I
/login_edit.cfm and select No mail from
the WSG list and No mail from the CMS list.
Regards,
Peter Firminger
***
http://webboy.net/
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
+612 49983388
+614 12932269
,
Peter Firminger
***
http://webboy.net/
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
+612 49983388
+614 12932269
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**
The discussion list for http
Absolutely, way off and it started over 2 weeks ago. Stop now!
P
IMHO yours and therefor mine
too, messages are
OFF TOPIC right now.
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See
Folks,
Any of you that remember when this list server took commands via email,
please forget it ever happened.
The only way to edit your setting is to log in and set them on the website.
Even if you do manage to get a command to work, the next time the system
writes the subscription file from
Can we stop this discussion. The more we post the links to the list
discussing it the more they end up in mail-archive.com.
No it isn't an O'Reilly website. We all get it :)
It's like a send this to everyone you know virus warning email, becomes
the problem itself.
P
But they may make your system vulnerable as they are not patched. There's a
very good reason Microsoft doesn't publish these for developers or anyone
else.
Not at all recommended on any machine you care about.
P
Standalone versions of IE 4 and IE 5 are available at
If you've gone against all sane advice and used CSS hacks then you knew
exactly what you were in for with future browsers and potential problems.
I don't want to see an M$ bitch session develop here while Microsoft are
seemingly trying very hard do the right thing (at last). Obviously we have
to
This thread is a clear case of why non-standards developers laugh at us (Web
Standards Zealots) and justifiably say we're irrelevant.
We're arguing over a line break! Forget the context (but a postal or street
address is a fine example of the need for a line break in the way most (en)
people
Big Thanks also to Thomas Marban from Austria who went to the trouble to set
up a WE05 Wiki.
http://futurefarm.net/we05/
Sorry, it only happened in the last 24 hours or so and we've been kinda busy
here setting everything up.
P
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
There is a CMS list for this discussion. Please log into the WSG site and
add it to your lists in your login details.
Peter
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for
For our members in the Netherlands (though I'm sure most of you are aware
already)...
http://kurafire.net/log/archive/2005/08/07/happy-clog
Regards,
Peter Firminger
***
http://webboy.net/
info@webboy.net
+612 49983388
+614 12932269
Hi Paul,
Keep in mind that not many people here will want to help you
sort out a
design that uses tables for layout.
Are we not being a bit classist?
I don't think so. This is from the guidelines:
---
We encourage people to ask for help on the list. One of the primary goals of
this group
a
chance to win a free ticket to WE05!
RSVP is essential - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Regards,
Peter Firminger
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting
You have a usability/accessibility issue with the onChange event on the
style switcher. Take it out and add a button to submit it. Try NOT using
your mouse and tab through to that form instead, then try and arrow down and
you'll see the issue.
Even something like
For those that haven't seen it, the OzEmail page that James referred to is
http://homesite.service.ozemail.com.au/sidenav.html/help/systemstatus
To me the colour difference of the three ticks isn't distinguishable. I see
a tick and think, the service is fine. Bad use of both colour and
Are we done now?
Let me just say (as I wrote the offending line on the Max
Design/Webboy sites) that I referred to ASP and not ASP.NET as not being a rapid
development language (and I am right, it isn't... I used todo ASP sites).
I really don't care what languages other people use, they
Now cut that out (smile or no smile)!
I use Windows machines exclusively and prefer to browse using IE as that's
what my main audience uses. I pick up many things that Russ on his non
Win/IE combination misses (not that he doesn't check but they are not his
defaults and things do slip through).
I totally concur with Lea (which happens with amazing regularity).
We have discussed this matter in the past (along with creating online fora
to move some of the newbie stuff off the list) but the general consensus was
that this was and still is the best way to do it to cover all levels.
If
Ok, enough on
that thanks.
This is a
'PhotoShop how to'rather thana Web Standards
discussion.
Peter
Please please send these to the address mentioned ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) and
not to the list.
Bruce stated that he will post the report to the list when completed so we
don't need to see your responses.
Peter
**
The discussion list for
We're pushing the OT limits with this thread.
I understand it's importance to some people but PHP is NOT a standard and we
don't want to go too much further into it here. Many list members don't use
PHP and this is just noise to them.
I'm not closing the thread but please limit your posts on
Hmmm...
I don't have a certain answer, but I have a questions; Why are you
trying to get your website to work on IE on a Mac?? (OS9)?? You know
that IE on a mac has been ditched in the new OSX (Tiger). And
Safari is
the dominent Browser. You should have a message appear on
your site for
Sorry folks been busy so this has gone unanswered so far by the listkeepers.
First of all, we just hit 2000 members! That is a moving target though and
it may take a week to stabilise over that figure.
Also, Let me take the time to thank our Core group of members, the people
that run the
Yeah thanks, we know. No need to repost it or send it to us. I'm trying to
find a solution that won't screw up a lot of member's filters.
Please just delete these if they continue. A word of advice. NEVER open any
attachment from this list. We don't allow attachments (it's in the
guidelines) so
people use.
Fingers crossed!
Regards,
Peter Firminger
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+612 49983388
+614 12932269
Hi Vaska,
You really need to give us the URL of the page that this occurs
onso others can test it.
We also need to know os/ver and browser/ver it occurs on to
emulate it.
Opening it as
a local file is not a good test (unless the page is destined for a CD-ROM or
Kiosk). These things can
Hi Vaska,
Am I allowed to ask about non-CSS things here?
WSG is not just a CSS list. Your question is entirely appropriate as it is
dealing with firm Web Standards.
In particular, I'm trying to deal with how to handle inputs
of Chinese
characters via some forms. What I'm wondering is...
This is really a topic for the CMS list. Please carry on the conversation
there.
Regards,
Peter
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Nicol
Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 10:09 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Looking
Hi tee,
As you've found both lists are bundled together in the local archive, but
the CMS list is separate in mail-archive.com (which Russ Weakley redesigned
for them a while back btw):
http://www.mail-archive.com/cms%40webstandardsgroup.org/
Or (a little easier to remember)
Absolutely correct Lawrence.
I (as a CMS developer) understand very well the need for standards compliant
systems and a place to discuss the issues. That is why encourage anyone that
is interested (and sadly, many developers are not) to join and use the
WSG-CMS list. Just log in to
Yeah WAY OT,
Please respond to Erwin off list.
This list only covers web standards, if the brief was bigger than that it
would explode and become unusable. There are no web standards involved in
server-side technologies and tasks like card processing.
We have a CMS list to discuss the output of
Goodbye!
P
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 10:23 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org; russ - maxdesign
Cc: Web Standards Group
Subject: Re: [WSG] Privacy Statements - THREAD CLOSED
Way OT now folks.
Please send suggestions to Gez at the email address mentioned on the page
(as Douglas correctly asked you to do).
P
Visit his site for more information about the situation and how to
contact him with suggestions.
http://juicystudio.com/
Thank you!
quote
There is nothing wrong with any of the above except they're being touted
by...guess who?...people who offer web design services specializing
in...guess what?...Web Standards, Usability, and tableless CSS. These are
simply tools. Remember, nobody gets excited about the tools used to build a
Further more (this rubbish by or about people justifying their inability to
do a job right really annoys me).
A person developing a website is expected to produce a product that serves
HTML or XHTML and through that some other files (images, stylesheets etc.)
to a browser. Lets just go with the
Oh, and sorry...this is fairly off topic. Apologies...
Patrick
Yes I was thinking the same. Very interesting news with on-topic
repercussions down the track but not really a valid discussion point here
and now. However, I have set up a page in the WSG Blog for this
discussion...
mail client but as far as I know you can get the
posters direct address from the From address. In Outlook it is shown as:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Peter Firminger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
and by double clicking Peter Firminger you are given the address in a
dialogue box to copy.
The alternative
Way off topic... Please reply to Siggy off list.
Listdad
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sigurd Magnusson
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 8:38 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: SPAM: [WSG] Page views per month, peak rates in
You are using them old command method to subscribe and this has been
disabled. Log into the WSG site and change your email prefs to include the
CMS list.
P
I know this might be slightly off toic, but the CMS listserv
on WSG won't allow
me to subscribe:
Sorry, the mailing list
Hi Devendra,
Character Encoding mismatch!
The character encoding specified in the HTTP header (utf-8)
is different from the value in the meta element
(iso-8859-1). I will use the value from the HTTP header
(utf-8) for this validation.
ColdFusionMX serves a character encoding in the http
to the WSG Core team. Avril
will be sharing the WSG Brisbane duties with Lea de Groot.
Regards,
Peter Firminger
***
http://webboy.net/
info@webboy.net
+612 49983388
+614 12932269
Hi James,
As the page http://www.organicexpo.com.au/exhibitors/index.php validates as
XHTML 1.0 Strict, this may not mean anything but I have had errors or
warnings from validators about white space in html comments in the past.
!--comment-- wasn't acceptable as there needed to be a space either
You have a mixed doctype, the declaration says strict but the uri points to
the transitional dtd.
P
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul
Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 11:28 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG]
Can I just offer an opinion here.
When thinking of semantics it sometimes helps to go back 20 years and use
pen and paper.
If you were writing a big list (numbering each item) in a small notepad you
would, on successive pages, keep the numbering going. So on the second page,
the first item may
Hi Jacobus,
You'll need to resend this to the list as it was blocked and only sent to me
because you had a read receipt request on it.
Regards,
Peter
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jacobus van Niekerk
Sent: Saturday, January 29,
Hi all,
If you have any specific concerns please forward them to
info@webboy.net or
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
I'll just mention that you can't write to [EMAIL PROTECTED] as it's
a closed list and you'll be rejected posting to it unless you are
subscribed. Sorry Mark :(
I am working on another form
[EMAIL PROTECTED] to
discuss
anything in this email.
Regards,
Peter Firminger
The announce list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
semantically correct, change the way the resources
section is presented and add a new Jobs section for advertising (standards
related) positions vacant.
Please do not respond to the WSG list. Please email [EMAIL PROTECTED] to
discuss
anything in this email.
Regards,
Peter Firminger
Yeah thanks Warren, but we'll look after the traffic control please. Your
post just adds to the noise.
Please reply to Angus off list about his PHP issues.
PHP is not a web standard and is not for discussion here. The guidelines
do point this out.
P
Pretty off topic.
WP
Hey list,
A number of things to cover. Please read on.
New Zealand:
I am stunned by the RSVPs for the upcoming meeting in Wellington. By my
reckoning, over 50 people will attend next Thursday evening and it's their
first meeting. You Kiwis! Always a surprise up your sleeves. Mike
Hi Alan,
I strongly suggest putting the binary stuff into a background image. Google
etc. will hate what you have there as will screen readers. Interesting
effect but not a good idea unless maybe you put it at the end of the code
order. Personally, I'd lose it and use an image as a css
Hi,
yeah it works on my slave machine running sp1, but I tend not
to have that
connected, as it will just get eaten by the web (yours is
still alive?). it
The web never ate my machine pre SP2. Maybe I am more careful about where I
browse.
looks like it is a sp2 IE thing stripping the
Hi,
Is a list with one item really a list?
Yes absolutely. If there is one person in a room and you are asked to list
the names of the people in the room then the list will have one name.
P
**
The discussion list for
Hi,
Your second example is not valid; h3 element cannot be
contained in dl
Quite correct but it can be within the dd.
in such way. the first one is ok, but why don't you consider
such scenario:
h2News/h2
div id=news-001
h3News Name Date/h3
pNews content here.../p
Hi folks,
No more PHP discussions please. It's no more a web standard than ColdFusion
etc. There are other places for those discussions. If it does happen to come
up, please answer off list.
Regards,
Listdad
**
The discussion list for
These messages really should be sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] rather than the
list. Not to stop people publicly complaining but to keep the non-standards
traffic down for everyone else.
No to the forum, this has been discussed before.
Yes to the no-mail membership but not until I have time over
Hi Genau Jr,
The first step when asking for help is always to get the page code valid
first.
See http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http://novo.meucarronovo.com.br/
Most of your problems seem to stem from unescaped ampersands () in links (I
haven't looked too far down as there are 153 errors).
Felix.
A thread closed by a core member is not to be opened again. Period!
The topic has been exhausted.
If you have fresh information on the topic after a thread has been closed,
send it directly to the person and not to the list.
Peter
**
Be nice Iain!
Final warning.
Peter
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Iain Harrison
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 7:53 PM
To: Lothar B. Baier
Subject: Re[2]: [WSG] Font size and arrogance
Hello Lothar,
Thursday, November 18,
This is relevant in several respects:
Firstly, we have to realise that there are some brain-dead mail
filtering systems out there, and have to be careful about the words
we use or quote in emails.
I don't agree, I can be blue to people I know in person but profanity
(including that mild but
Obviously, you don't need to reply to these on list.
We see them too and deal with them.
P
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sam Hutchinson
Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 4:17 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: H! RE: [WSG]
Some of this stuff is done best directly to the author, not the list... Use
your good judgement when replying please. If it's just a Looks good or an
unrelated question then the 1170+ others really don't need the traffic. If
it's a standards related issue or question that may help others learn
The problem with that is that (on my machine and at the time 64k ISDN
connection) it took about 3 minutes for the content to display, I assume
because it was loading the QT first. The source code was all there while
waiting to render.
Try this:
Predictable is a good thing. Expectations met! Usability has a lot to do
with predictability. The 'kiss' principle is always a good place to start.
The whole Find out more about ... at the bottom of each page looks too
predictable.
You can adjust the words to suit the site e.g.:
Find out more
A perfect example of what not to send to this list. Throwing in the line
and of cause a lot of webstandard skills (sic) does not put it on-topic.
I suggest all new members read the guidelines (see the link in the footer).
Traffic (and signal-to-noise ratio) is an issue on this list (especially
I notice that some people nest the input within the legend whereas I don't:
Example:
label for=nameName:br /
input type=text name=name id=name size=55 //label
or mine:
label for=nameName:/labelbr /
input type=text name=name id=name size=55 /
Does it make any difference? The ID ties them
Yes, my use of the word legend should have read label. D'oh!
P
However in relation to legend, a whole bunch of labels and
inputs can be
presented within one legend.
Roger
I notice that some people nest the input within the legend
whereas I don't:
Means I screwed up! Still tweaking it...
Thanks for this.
P
WSG's feed page (http://webstandardsgroup.org/rss.cfm) gives
me this error when
I viewed it (FF 1.0PR, Win XP):
+ + + + + + + + + + + CODE + + + + + + + + + +
XML Parsing Error: not well-formed
Location:
. Also, we
are in an entirely different time zone to you in Arizona (though our server is
actually in Phoenix), all the core group are in eastern
Australia.
Welcome to the group Casey, I hope this clears up your
questions.
Regards,
Peter Firminger
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mai
Hi folks,
This isn't on topic at all. We don't talk about specific web applications on
this list, just the concepts surrounding the output of any system. Please
continue this discussion on the CMS list as that is far more appropriate
(the content being the images in this case). See the resources
Interesting,
You may have flummoxed it with the double color reference
background-color : #05695c;
color : #000;
font-family : Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size : 80%;
color : #02486c;
Try removing the black one (color : #000;) and see if it fixes it.
P
-Original
Just a heads up, always look for No errors or warnings. You can get the
congrats but still have warnings if you scroll down. Jackie's concern was a
warning even though it was valid css.
P
Congratulations!
Valid CSS!This document validates as CSS!
Is what I get when I validate the CSS
Hmmm...
but it was also pointed out
paste
Note that a strict interpretation of the WAI WCAG 1.0 guidelines would
indicate that you MUST use XHTML 1.0 if you intent to comply
with WAI AA
guidelines. See http://www.w3.org/TR/WAI-WEBCONTENT/
Um, no. Not MUST at all. This is
Um, local machines won't work out here!
P
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ted Drake
Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2004 2:37 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [WSG] IE topnav problems
I am stumped on this issue.
Our top nav has a
Hi Jad,
I'm afraid I don't really see the point. All these blogs tend to interlink
anyway so there's really nothing new here and there are many sites that do
this kind of linking (e.g. http://dezwozhere.com/links.html among heaps of
others). A site with no content isn't really of any value to
Go to Tools | Internet Options and at the bottom of the General tab click
the Accessibility button and add your stylesheet there.
P
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ralph
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 11:59 AM
To: [EMAIL
Obviously that was meant to be sent to Kay directly.
Regards,
Peter Firminger
***
http://webboy.net/
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
1300 666 770
+612 4998 3388
Proudly presenting:
Web Essentials 04
Web standards :: accessibility :: inspiration
Hi folks,
In the last couple of days I have been getting many bounces from the list by
mail servers blocking posts as spam because they are in HTML or Outlook Rich
Text format.
Can I again ask that you try to remember to set your emails to plain text
rather than HTML when posting to the list.
I think we're done on this pretty well OT subject now thanks.
P
*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
Hi,
There is a specific WSG list for CMS matters. Please join and use that list
for this discussion.
http://webstandardsgroup.org/go/resource131.cfm for details.
P
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Geoff Deering
Sent: Friday, July 30,
Hey folks,
We don't need on-list confirmations of where you are thanks. If your details
are right in the login database then we know.
Thanks,
Peter
*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See
Hi all,
If you want to see how many people are in your area (and if you have over
ten you can probably start a meeting group) please log into the site, scroll
down on the member home page to Country/Member count and click View Details
(or just go to
Marina Del Rey, CA is a suburb of Los Angeles, California.
Paradise!!! :-)
Best,
Jim Barricks
Might be best to list yourself as Los Angeles then, or is it really too far
spread? I've only seen the airport :)
This is why we ask for the general city rather than suburbs or sattelite
cities. I
Hi Scott,
The process is open. Join W3C, get on a working group and contribute to
you're heart's content. But you'll need to know a lot more than you do now.
No offence but I think you'll be out of your depth just getting out of the
elevator (as I would be).
Hi,
Russ is in New Zealand at the moment and the end of the financial year was
not good for either of us.
For the moment I don't have time to build a new section for job ads, but
it's in the list of things to do. I don't believe it's a good solution
though as it will still require people to
Title: RE: [WSG] Redesigning smh.com.au & theage.com.au with css
Sorry folks, nothing really wrong here but the subject
line is giving me grief.Some Governmentspam filters see ; in the
subject and throw it back to me and I'm getting swamped. Stupid really but there
you go.
If you must
Please answer this off list as it has nothing to do with Web Standards.
P
I am looking for a (preferably free) software to be able to
do searches
on an Intranet site. The Intranet is hosted on a local Unix Server.
Any inputs would be greatly appreciated.
Regards,
Amit Karmakar
Then again, according to the article (rant): changing
standards = OXYMORON
That's why there are different versions and subversions. 3.2, 4.0 and 4.01
are all different beasts. They don't change. If you're an idiot that doesn't
think a doctype is required because you don't understand it, then
Hi List,
I have added (at the request of Bert Doorn) a resources section for server
applications that output valid code.
Bert's question included the following:
-
In order to further promote standards compliant (x)html and css websites, I
wonder if we could as a group provide a
Not a good idea for the average website. If you're running
amazon.com then there would be a reason to do it but for most of us maintenance
would be an issue.
P
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Christopher
KennonSent: Sunday, June 13, 2004 9:28
Hi list,
For our Queensland members (or anyone else that has a travel budget to get
them to Brisbane for a Queensland mid-winter weekend):
The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C) is a non-for-profit, vendor-neutral
international Web standards organisation that develops
LOL
Yeah, I'm not laughing! You should see the bounces I get from many many
(Government) mail servers that block anything containing the f word
(probably when it is in a URL).
New rule (I really didn't think we had to make a rule about this)
Anyone using profanity on this list in future will
Nope sorry,
The correct content type or MIME type for an XHTML document is
application/xhtml+xml.
This (mime type issue) is only required for XHTML 1.1. You don't have to do
it for XHTML 1.0 Transitional (which the example was).
The answer to Jamie's original question is to have a look at the
Russ and I have discussed this at length and we have come to the opinion
that the @import rule (when used in that manner) is indeed a hack but a
harmless one.
The reasoning is that it exploits a bug or particular behaviour in a
browser. In this case, older browsers don't understand it at all and
No, we do it to specifically exploit this bug or particular behaviour so it
is a hack. If you look at the stylesheets you'll see that there is basic css
in the one that NN4 can see and all the other more advanced stuff is in the
one it can't see. All quite deliberate using both methods to achieve
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