Hi
all,
I've got a simple
list of events with dates and am trying to keep it as a simple ordered list.
http://www.c41.com.au/test.htmlshows
my example with everything else stripped out. (the css is inline just for ease of creating the
example.)
I thought I had it
sorted until I
Title: RE: [WSG] ordered list for events
thanks everyone!
in response to a few of those questions:
Gary wrote:
I realise you have said you want to keep it as a simple ordered list - but
I am not sure of the reason why.
glory ;-)
nah, I guess I'm just getting a real kick out of
not
Title: RE: [WSG] big trouble...still!
Can someone please check again for me?
yep, its good to go,
it did crash my IE6 on Win2k before, but all is fine now.
pete
gurus,
can anyone tell me
why this code...
-
style
type=text/cssli {display: inline}/style
ollisome
text/lilia little more text/lilianother
bit/lilieven a bit
more/li/ol
-
...drops the numbers
from the start of each list item as soon as you make the list run
horizontally?
I
Title: RE: [WSG] What Causes Selection Problems In IE.
Russ wrote:
Here is a test page to show you. Check it with Win/IE6:
http://www.maxdesign.com.au/jobs/css/try-and-highlight-me.htm
mmm, interesting, without wanting to sound like an IE fan ;-), I can select that text no problem using
Title: RE: [WSG] Second try with [a name]
Taco wrote:
my suggestion was to put nbsp; between
the tag, and then set its style to not
display so it does not take up any space,
something like a name=c44 class=anchor/a
If you set display:none on the links opera and mozilla wont
Title: RE: Opening pages in new windows... was Re: [WSG] XHTML (OT??)
p.s. I don't work for f2.com.au
i do :)
although before i look at the code behind that example (*preparing to grimace*) I'll let you know we have got a fair way to go with standards in general.
we are on it though.
Title: RE: [WSG] CSS Rules - Naming Conventions
yeah I'm known to use
id=wrap
id=masthead
id=nav
id=sidebar
id=footer etc etc
all the time trying to keep the names non-specific to the layout (like id=lefthandnav) cause when/if it changes later to a horizontal nav across the top i'd feel a
I'm curious -
does anyone really think that getting things spot on for Opera is important?
I'm
not sure (someone else on the list may be) but I think Opera is *very* close to
adhering to all the CSS2 specs - meaning if you get your page looking sweet in
Opera (and mozilla/firebird)
Title: double quoting
Hi guys,
theres a CMS (content management system) I'm dealing with that is converting some double quotes to single quotes, so this...
div id=content
...becomes...
div id='content'
...when published.
this is on a XHTML transitional page.
Now, I'm a bit
Title: RE: [WSG] double quoting
James wrote:
So, as far as I can tell, single quotes
on your attribute values are perfectly
acceptable (for xhtml1).
Havent done any real testing in browsers,
but I'd say it is a non-issue.
nice! hey thanks for digging that up :) very
Title: RE: [WSG] A new standards based smh.com.au/technology
Hi Tim,
thanks for yr kind words :)
I was going to send a note around to the list when we fixed a
few things up with it but just havent had time...
ok, so few points:
* yep, the new tech section is our first live site
Title: RE: [WSG] A new standards based smh.com.au/technology
I'd certainly like to use them if you have no objections.
of course not, its an important message. gotta get it out there :)
we're going to try to put together a whats new about the design page on the site with some more
hiya,
I noticed that the
much publicized new qantas airline - http://www.jetstar.com/-
launchedtheirsite with a css layout.
I havent had a real
look at the code, but my question is more about class and id names. when you
have a pretty complicated site and you end up using some sort of
'how-to' emails (that are always going to come up no matter what you do) to a minimum thread length.
pete
Peter Ottery
Lead Web Designer
f2 network - www.f2.com.au
02 8596 4450
http://www.cinema4duser.com
Comments and crits
most welcome.
first
impression: looks lush! very slick. easy to scan/understand whats going
on..
some
real quik thoughts that may relate to the css but also some general stuff (take
with a grain of salt and all that ;-)
with
yr
Title: RE: [WSG] Open source Relevant CSS tab?
El lun, 15-03-2004 a las 04:04, Tim escribió:
Sounds to me like the 'Show computed styles' bookmarklet
http://www.web-graphics.com/mtarchive/000846.php
i tried that but the link to the actual favelet seems to be broken.
i eventually tracked
anyone using
dreamweaver?
as far as 100% valid
transitional and strict xhtml sites go, can dreamweaver have its preferences etc
manipulated enough to be to produce markup and css exactly the way you want?
I've always used homesite religiously to handcode sites but may need to look to
controls in IE have a compounding effect - often making smallest unreadable and largest absolutely massive. if you use %'s to define font sizes the extreme variations are reduced and you may find you dont get as many compaints.
pete
Peter Ottery
Head of Design
f2 Network
(02
hiya,
we relaunched
theage.com.au todaywithimproved markup and a css
layout.
http://theage.com.au/
a couple of
points of interest:
a big part of the
redesign was improvingthe markup- ie: obviously using h
tags and ul tags etc. still have a ways to go and it'll be a learning
Title: RE: [WSG] theage.com.au: new design
hi,
Justin wrote:
Firefox loses it's navigation bar
(left) when resized down from
1024 to 800 wide
and
place a 1px border or padding on the left edge of the layout, which
will force your layout to disappear off the right edge of the
;-)
cheers for yr feedback,
pete
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
Behalf Of Tim Lucas
Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 6:04 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] theage.com.au: new design
Peter Ottery spoke the following wise words on 20/04/2004
Title: RE: [WSG] theage.com.au: new design
James wrote:
It's great to see such a large site being discussed openly on the list.
agreed. feels a bit weird - but hey, we're one big happy family right? ;-)
Other than what has been discussed, the only I thing I can see is the
markup:
p
[EMAIL PROTECTED]www.f2.com.au
On 29/04/2004, at 1:27 PM, Peter Ottery
wrote:
when we launched theage.com.au last week Justin
pointed outa way
(adding 1px padding to the left of the main
"#wrap" div) to make
Firefox keep the background image aligned hard
left with the co
hi
y'all,
yep,
http://www.smh.com.au/went live this
morn.
For
anyone who has ever read both http://theage.com.au/(launch mentioned
last week) and smh will know they have used the same basic page templates for a
few years. The css redesign of both sites has obviously continued that common
when we launched theage.com.au last week Justin pointed outa
way (adding 1px padding to the left of the main "#wrap" div) to make Firefox
keep the background image aligned hard left with the content when your browser
window was narrower than the content - and stopped the background image
How do I show
solid lines in a table with CSS to properly display with an Opera web browser?
that example code you've supplied makes a
border on all 4 sides of a TD in my copy of Opera (v7.22 on
PC)
Could
it be that other classes on your project are causing the prob? Like a negative
so you know how
there's that new way to clear floats...
http://www.positioniseverything.net/easyclearing.html
just wondering how
everyone is gauging that method?
I mean,the
"hack" used up until now of adding a div style="clear:both"/div
(or similar) to properly clear floats when needed is
hiya, this is
hopefully a simple little problem - but my brain is refusing to work today
:)
on this test
page...
http://c41.com.au/test/position_test.html(yep,
validated)
...is the example of
the problem (i've stripped out all the extra html/css to make it easier for you
to peruse)
I
(articles etc) have a linked css file as normal.
pete
Peter Ottery
Head of Design
f2 Network
(02) 8596 4450
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.f2.com.au
Title: RE: [WSG] Redesigning smh.com.au & theage.com.au with css
Hiya,
sorry,
dont mean to add to the list traffic too much but just wanted to point out that
your Mozilla extension added in some of its own styles etc when used to copy and
paste those styles Amit. (changed colour values to
Title: RE: [WSG] Div CSS VAlign
Can someone help with how I align a DIV Layout made with the x and y scale
vertically and horizontally
a google search for vertical and horizontal css centered div gives the following urls that may help you out - tho I'm not sure I've nailed your
Title: 4-column layout
is there any
examples that allow for a mixture of fluid and fixed
divs?
can
you have any of the columns position:absolute or do they all have to be floated?
(maybe you have a requirement for a footer to run right across the bottom of the
4 cols etc?). just
Title: Re: [WSG] sitecheck on Mac (Safari, IE5) and Win (IE 5/5.5) please?
Scott
wrote: Has anyone had any luck with an image replacement techniques that leaves
the link available?
Hi
Scott,
We use
a variant of image replacement for the section headings on the homepage of www.smh.com.au
Title: RE: [WSG] RE: Image replacement techniques for linked elements
James wrote:
I have my minimum font-size set to 12px, so
websites can't set text I can't read (or see for that
matter) - like 6px :D. I think this is rendering your (ed: smh.com.au) plain text headers
to be 12px -
Title: list item markers disappear behind floated image
Hi,
I have a problem with images that are floated left and then when a list wraps around that image the list bullet points themselves dont get pushed out by the floated image and instead remain behind (or on top of) the image. to help
Title: RE: [WSG] list item markers disappear behind floated image
Russ wrote: This may sound insane but the problem is fixable by floating the ul element.ul { float: left; }
that does sound weird but on reflection of the finer points of the behaviours of floats, does make sense. fix a
Below is a job opportunity at the company I work
for.Please reply directly to me off list if you are
interested.Permission was granted for this off-topic post by the list
organisers.
Apologies for the
outlook formatted html email. oh the irony ;-)
cheers,
Title: RE: [WSG] Best Aussie and Kiwi web standards designers
Andy asked However I'm always on the lookout for more cool, standards compliant sites, so wondered who you guys felt which companies and individuals were turning out the best work down under?
2 that i'm pretty sure are on this
Is
there a best-practice way to build an item
display
with multiple columns, but without using tables?
Name Price
Quantity Edit Delete
Apple $5.00
25 [edit]
[delete] Pear
$4.00
3 [edit]
[delete] Banana $12.00
5 [edit]
[delete]1 vote for "thats table data - use a
table"and your
Kim wrote:
Now I would like to
know what your arguments would be for using xhtml.Hi
everyone,have heard and understand all the good responses on this question.
As usual the decision can vary depending on your needs.I'd like to offer
one reason why it has been a good decision for us here at
Title: RE: [WSG] Is XHTML harmful?
Lachlan wrote:
On use of validation: valid code is not difficult.
Pete, I'm assuming from your comments that you aim for valid code by
changing institutional practices rather than programmatically?
Agreed on both.
The reality in big
so I've designed
myself a nice looking navigation scheme that displays visually whereabouts you
are within a site.
Now I just need to
work out how to sort out the css :)
Here's what I want
it to look like:
http://c41.com.au/test/sample_nav.gif
I'm *not* after any
dynamic or popout
hi there,
Pete originally
said:so
I've designed myself a nice looking navigation scheme that displays visually
whereabouts you are within a site.Now I just need to work out how to sort
out the css :)http://c41.com.au/test/sample_nav.gif
then Rob said:That's pretty. Pretty
tech reasons...
[1] http://www.adaptivepath.com/
anyway, hth,
cheers,
pete
~~
Peter Ottery ~ Designer
Daemon Pty Ltd
www.daemon.com.au
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org
.
cheers,
pete
~~
Peter Ottery ~ Senior Designer
Daemon Pty Ltd
17 Roslyn Gardens
Elizabeth Bay NSW 2011
www.daemon.com.au
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org
Dmitry wrote:
Hi Peter,
I am not shure about asteri, but I think it is not very usable that if
I click on the text near checkbox, checkbox doesn't change its state.
for sure. that behaviour (thanks to using labels) works for me in PC
IE5+ and Firefox (which is a pretty large slice of users) in
very proud to say the new mycareer site launched today:
http://mycareer.com.au/
its the next major site from the Fairfax Digital network to take on css
layout as part of a redesign. the site gets hundreds of thousands of
visitors a month and is one of australias largest job ad websites.
check it
hi, thanks for your kind words and feedback peoples. have tried to quickly answer those main questions below:
re Just curious to know what the many lines of CDATA code achieve and the
reason for putting them inline?
no idea personally :) , but the dev guy says it's definitely something
we want
Andreas wrote: I am having difficulties getting IE to give a table a padding-left.
I dont think adding padding to the table itself is going to be reliable - as youve found out :)
I'd say that what you want to do is add padding to the cell/s of the table.
If you want to add padding to one column
Andreas Boehmer wrote:
Gee, that's a new one to me! Is col a HTML 4 tag? I've never come acrossit.
absolutely, a quick googling turns this article up - looks like quite a good rundown...
http://www.yourhtmlsource.com/tables/tablesaccessibility.html
or theres always the w3c spec if youre up for
On 5/2/05, Gunlaug Sørtun [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Andreas Boehmer [Addictive Media] wrote: Something I find really strange is that a lot of people who put emphasis on Web Standards suddenly found their way back to non-liquid, 800px, centered design. I am wondering why that is?
i really admire a
Maybe a specific topic addressing the commercial benefits of Web
Standards at WE05 could have been included.
I believe there is.
1.30pm, day 1...
Brett Jackson, John Horner, David McDonald
Panel: Moving your organisation to standards
Theme: Strategy
Audience: Managers
Tee wrote:
Is it possible to make it this way and make IE happy at the same time?
div class=twoCol
labelitem 1/label
labelitem 2/label
labelitem 3/label
labelitem 4/label
labelitem 5/label.
/div
So that I don't need to put a spacer class in between every two items.
there may be
sports fans,
if you had part of a form that had a checkbox that when checked
enabled a file upload input, how would you mark that up?
the result should look something like this:
http://skunkworks.farcrycms.com/wsg/label/label.gif
but i wasnt sure what the label tag/s would/should wrap around...
re: a elements may only contain other inline elements
hang on,
so if i have an anchor tag wrapped around an image (display:inline by
default), its deemed fine by the validator, but if I make that image
display:block via the css, (for design purposes, which must be a
pretty common practice on
Damien wrote:
As to your question about a tags for block level elements, can you
give an example when you would use this?
not a good one, no :) i had a fleeting thought like what if, for some
ungodly reason, you wanted to link an entire sidebar div to another
page - but it was fleeting. just
Hi Erwin,
there'd be other people on the list that could comment on the use of access keys etc i'm sure.
At a stretch I'd kinda consider some aspects of the visual presentation part of the broad spectrum that is accessibility though - or at least usability.
i like thisarticle that looks at the
Cole wrote: I've got a small background icon that I've hooked to a few li's. Displays as planned in FF, but doesn't display at all in IE6.
Any ideas how I can fix this in IE?not sure if youve solved this by now but often i find if you specify a background colour (instead of transparent), IE will
Hi Ian,
I dont think its a massive issue to do that (put the navigation at the end of the source and position it at the top of the page visually). Theres probably some people that would say this is potentially better for screenreaders, in that they aren't confronted with a massive navigation
i really like this accordion show/hide script...
http://openrico.org/demos.page?demo=ricoAccordion.html
.. and am thinking it might be useful for a really long list of FAQ's on a page.
this particular example relies on the quite sizeable 'rico' _javascript_/s (which contain a whole bunch of other
re:
php sniffer script
Splash Page that degrades (though ... can't degrade too much)
Sam, i gotta agree with what Michael said earlier:
Did we just hit some kind of crazy-ass time warping worm-hole thatlanded us in 1995?I beg of you, wherever you are, go out and pick up a copy of this book:
quoting stuff from an old job. While we're talking about big picture issues I dont think I'll get into trouble. hopefully ;-)
cheers,
pete
~~~Peter Ottery ~ Creative DirectorDaemon Pty Ltd 17 Roslyn GardensElizabeth Bay NSW 2011
www.daemon.com.au/
hi,
I'd like to left align the text in a form submit button. The following
seems to work in IE (5.5+), but not in Firefox:
form action=whatever
input type=submit value=Submit style=width:20em;text-align:left /
/form
(simplified and made inline for the sake of an
Hope that made sense,
nup. youre definately going to have to show us an example. if you havent got a liveexample to show, make a really simple example by stripping out everything else and just include some html css within your post. help us to help you! :)
On 7/21/05, Josh Rose [EMAIL
,
~~~
Peter Ottery ~ Creative Director
Daemon Pty Ltd
www.daemon.com.au (yeah yeah, redesign coming :)
**
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See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting
Andrew wrote:
Or how about everyone interested just bites
the bullet and posts their photo contact details like I just did?
i'll be there.
here's me: http://c41.com.au/
the secret password is youve been on this list *how* long and your
site still uses tables?
oh. the. horror.
:)
On 10/5/05, Zach Inglis wrote
For an article i'm writing I need a list who have turned their
website into Web Standard compliant websites.
there are many lists scattered around already compiled - like this one:
http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/redesignwatch/
hth, cheers, pete
What do others think?
1 vote here for always making the logo a regular img and part of the
html markup. reasoning for me is a pretty simple one. its content! :)
cheers,
pete
~~~
Peter Ottery ~ Creative Director
Daemon Pty Ltd
17 Roslyn Gardens
Elizabeth Bay NSW 2011
,
pete
~~~
Peter Ottery ~ Creative Director
Daemon Pty Ltd
17 Roslyn Gardens
Elizabeth Bay NSW 2011
www.daemon.com.au
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail
usually a better story
with IE5.5.
[1] give an example of ok to your client early on and explain why
spending 99% of your time on 1% (percentages always make your argument
sound good ;-) of their audience is not spending their money in the
right place.
cheers,
pete
~~~
Peter
Peter Firminger wrote:
Not at all recommended on any machine you care about.
Just for my own peace of mind tho - they're only a security issue when
you have launched the program right? so if i'm launching them (old
standalone IE5 5.5) once a month to *only* test pages that I've
created - I'm
On 10/15/05, Stefan wrote:
How can I make the Table fill the full width of the column in FireFox and
IE 6?
same thing happened to me with that type of layout.
I added the following rules to the tables and it sorted it for me:
table {width:100%;float:left}
cheers,
pete
Hi Rachel,
before you dive into the markup ( i'm not sure if this is much help
to you) but if you can simplify the proposed visual design you may be
able to save yourself some pain in the css layout (cause agreed, it
would be fairly complex)
it took me a while to understand the form and what
adam wrote:
So, the idea of context is quite important here, which is where, i
believe, a table would come in handy.
ditto. i'd feel comfortable using a table if i were you Rachel :)
if you were going to use css you'd probably need to repeat the
Discipline split % within each fieldset - and
It was a good idea at the time - but probably not a hot idea any more.
Read The Web Standards Project's line on it now:
http://www.webstandards.org/act/campaign/buc/
---
I like this idea and wanted to implement somthing similar, but was wondering
what was going on
just say i have markup like this:
--
div id =utility
ul
lia href="" Item/a/li
lia href="" Item/a/li
lia href="" Item/a/li
/ul
/div
-
and for one reason or another I *dont* have access to the html markup.
Then an intricate design
~~~
Peter Ottery ~ Creative Director
Daemon Pty Ltd
17 Roslyn Gardens
Elizabeth Bay NSW 2011
Web: www.daemon.com.au/
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail
only as an excuse to say awesome work :)
~~~
Peter Ottery ~ Creative Director
Daemon Pty Ltd
17 Roslyn Gardens
Elizabeth Bay NSW 2011
Web: www.daemon.com.au
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http
/ sensible / 2006.
if not, maybe there's a need for something...?
~~~
Peter Ottery ~ Creative Director
Daemon Pty Ltd
17 Roslyn Gardens
Elizabeth Bay NSW 2011
http://www.daemon.com.au/
COMING SOON
webDU - the web technology conference
http://webdu.com.au/
Sydney, March 2/3
Joshua wrote http://webpatterns.org/
*checks it out*
ok, so the term patterns is potentially a too far advanced term for
what i'm thinking of. all that microformat and machine readable data
stuff is certainly interesting (Allsopp - i can hear you screaming
about it from here ;-) but...
I
Joshua also wrote:
That web patterns thing people were bouncing around in here a month or
so back? I've lost the address... if someone else doesn't post it,
it's in the archives somewhere...
oops. yeah ok:
http://www.mail-archive.com/wsg@webstandardsgroup.org/msg24333.html
it was a good
the word to developers and designers. thats where the
action is :)
pete
~~~
Peter Ottery ~ Creative Director
Daemon Pty Ltd
17 Roslyn Gardens
Elizabeth Bay NSW 2011
http://www.daemon.com.au/
COMING SOON
webDU - the web technology conference
http://webdu.com.au/
Sydney, March 2/3
hiya,
i dont like flyout menus as much as the next guy/girl but i have a
situation that requires them, so i'm using the son of suckerfish menu
[1].
i'm having a problem with adding position:relative to items below the
menu, and those elements appearing on top of the flyout menus in IE.
i've
Samuel wrote:
have you tried setting the z-index on them?
yeah, tried all sorts of z-index combinations (that i could think of)
but still cant get it working. theres a short note at the bottom of
that example page i put together...
**
The
success! housecleaningSam wrote:-- Are negatives supported in the z-index?
yes, more about z-index at pages like: http://www.echoecho.com/csslayers.htmRic wrote:
-- Personally I don't like the suckerfish menus much.--I found these much more to my
Ted wrote:
-- my lovely flash movie thinks it's the coolest thing on the planet
and wants to sit on top of my lovely dropdown box.
in the html code that calls your flash movie, add this:
param name=WMode value=transparent
let us know how you go
pete ottery
on the WSG list - if not,
drop by the Mollio Google Group and provide some
feedback/suggestions/contributions there.
cheers,
pete
~~~
Peter Ottery ~ Creative Director
Daemon Pty Ltd
17 Roslyn Gardens
Elizabeth Bay NSW 2011
www.daemon.com.au
Jack wrote:
But does anyone have any idea how to put that alongside the title and
image etc without using a table? or should i just use a table?
Hi Jack,
There shouldnt be any need for a table here. just mark your list up as
a list and float your image to one side. something like this:
re - My question is what is the best practice? What kind of DTD to
choose? XHTML Basic? XHTML MP?
i can offer a good link! :)
http://www.cameronmoll.com/archives/000398.html
not sure if it answers all your question. its a 3 part series. the guy
(cameron moll) is one of those rockstar designers
Peter Goddard wrote:-- I would even suggest that you-- consider picking up the basics of aspx page development, not the code,-- but the web controls that are available in .net and see if you can
-- suggest how you can work more closely ...a great informative post Peter.Another vote here for the
re Perhaps this could be forwarded to Microsoft as I am a customer and have
asked them to build a standards compliant browser and yet they have
chosen to ignore me.
I for one think Microsoft deserve massive kudos.
They *are* doing all they can to make IE7 a decent standards compliant browser.
re - Has anybody seen or created way of displaying States on hover
using CSS only?
Hi Felisimina,
have a look at the front of http://www.domain.com.au/
i worked on a previous version a while ago (so dont shoot me for any
other code on the site ;-)
it uses a sprite image for the hover - check
Paul wrote:
Of course the problem was made easier by the fact
that most of the borders between Australian states are on the
horizontal or vertical, but you handled the major exception between
NSW and VIC excellently by expressing ACT as a strategically-placed
and -sized rectangle. Good work!
Brad wrote:
Really enjoying the new ABC News website here in Australia.
http://abc.net.au/news/
ditto - love it. an amazing achievement to get that up and out. i
particularly like the nice little attention to detail like the css
hovers/icons on the links and the inline video. the video
re - using the 'clearfix' fix... as a way of clearing floats by
not adding any additional markup
i've always thought that argument was a bit of a stretch. You are
adding extra markup - and its hardcoded presentational markup. What
happens when you have class=clearfix all through your code and
re - How are you guys structuring your CSS files?
for me, multiple css files for different parts of the page is harder
to manage. I'm pretty old school keep everything within the 1 css
file (within reason). this also means 1 http request which is good.
exceptions are if you had a massive admin
Anton wrote...
-
In regards to I'm guessing this sort of structuring comes at a cost
because a number of requests need to be made to the server. this is
generally untrue. In principle this is exactly how download
accelerators work. They split a large file into smaller segments and
sent
re - Out of curiosity, it wasn't an actual physical stop watch was it?
of course not - it was an abacus! ;-)
nah in all seriousness, it was before the time of firebug, and around
the time of the birth of this mailing list.
yes it was literally a stopwatch - which was enough for me at the
time. i
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