Re: [ZION] Mannequins
At 21:46 11/13/2002 -0600, Grryyy wrote: Would someone please tell Till's wife to keep him away from the store front windows? He's scaring the passersby... Till thinks the mannikins scares the passersby. At least they do him. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
[ZION] Family Search
On my way home from teaching Seminary this morning, I was listening to the radio. They have a segment from someone who calls herself Kim Commando - she talks about computer topics. She was speaking to those who are doing family history, and talked about the fact The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, also known as the Mormons, have just put 55,000,000 new names on their internet site. The spot was very complimentary, and they gave the website name, highlighting that it is a .org and not a .com. I came in on the middle of it, and at first thought it was an advertisement by the Church. Jon // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Hardwired for God?
At 11:37 PM 11/13/2002, Marc wrote: Speaking of the star of Bethlehem, I'm sure you have heard most of the theories as to what it might have been. What would be your reaction if you learned that it might actually be an astrological phenomenon, and that it didn't happen in 1 A.D.? -- Marc A. Schindler Actually Pratt discussed this possibility in an article which appears on the Griffith Observatory website (as well as other places, including Pratt's own website): http://www.griffithobs.org/IPSPlanPlatt.html The most likely date he gives is during Passover, 1 BC. I should mention that to the Jews (at least those not in apostasy) astrology as a method of predicting the future was blasphemous. However, they did believe that stars (and other celestial events) were signs of God's works. Genesis 1:14, for starters, states that these celestial objects and events are signs--to make known his will and purposes. A good overview of the different celestial (astrological) events regarding what might have been the Star of Bethlehem is available here: http://sciastro.net/portia/articles/thestar.htm -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Recall the new star that announced the birth at Bethlehem? It was in its precise orbit long before it so shone. We are likewise placed in human orbits to illuminate. Divine correlation functions not only in the cosmos but on this planet, too. After all, the Book of Mormon plates were not buried in Belgium, only to have Joseph Smith born centuries later in distant Bombay. (Elder Neal A. Maxwell, Conference Report, Saturday Morning, Oct 2002) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Coffee beans
At 06:30 11/14/2002 -0800, you wrote: At 11:32 PM 11/13/2002 -0700, Marc wrote: BTW, why didn't the doc prescribe digitalis or digoxin? Digitalis has been around since antiquity (it comes from the foxglove plant), and digoxin has been in use since at least WWII, iirc. It's usually the drug of choice for heart stimulus. Because foxglove is a common weed, readily available in my garden for free to anyone who wants it, and therefore does not make a huge profit for the doc's partners - the pharmaceutical industry. It's pretty potent sitting out there. Be EXTREMELY careful. Till who doesn't have anything growing in his garden right now, but the foxgloves do like to come up in the nicer weather // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
[ZION] Deseret Book standards
LDS Author 's Book Deemed Inappropriate Thursday, November 14, 2002 BY CHRISTY KARRAS THE SALT LAKE TRIBUNE Nobody looked to Deseret Book as a source for steamy romance novels, but now even tame love stories face possible eviction from the shelves. The LDS Church-owned chain of bookstores has decided not to stock copies of bestselling Utah author Richard Paul Evans' latest book, The Last Promise, because it doesn't meet new standards for moral content. Evans, whose bestselling-author status began in his home state with sales of sugary, upbeat family-oriented stories such as The Christmas Box, covers new territory withThe Last Promise, released last week. The book is about an American woman living in Italy who, in the face of an abusive relationship with her husband, turns to another man for emotional support and, eventually, romance. Evans said he is surprised by the negative reaction, especially since the affair between the woman and her male friend is never consummated. The theme is love, not sex, he said. The book is not about adultery, Evans, a practicing Mormon, told The Tribune in an interview last week. The book would be a PG-rated movie, at the most. Still, the themes were too much for new buying guidelines that went into effect a few weeks ago, said Sheri Dew, president and CEO of Deseret Book. The guidelines tell the store's buyers to avoid ordering books that clash with customers' values. Though the process has just begun, store employees will eventually comb through all 250,000 titles in the stores' inventory to remove other books that might flunk the new standards, Dew said. Classics such as The Scarlet Letter or Jane Eyre will get the same scrutiny as new books under consideration. The guidelines are based on recent customer surveys that said patrons, mostly members of the LDS Church, were upset when they found books at the store whose messages clashed with their values. This is completely a business decision. It's not a religious decision, it's not a moral decision. It's a customer decision, Dew said. This does not appear to sever the relationship between Evans and the chain, which Dew estimates has sold more than 100,000 copies of his previous books. Deseret Book will continue to sell the earlier titles, and The Last Promise will be available by special order. The decision also doesn't seem to have had a negative effect on Evans' enormous popularity in Utah, the setting of most of his books. Long lines formed at Evans' book signings this week at Borders and Media Play. We were disappointed that Deseret chose not to sell the book, but I don't think it will hurt a thing, said Lisa Johnson, head of publicity at Dutton, Evans' publisher. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] answer to life
I didn't insist on it! I just IMPLIED that I insisted on it. Quite a difference, don't you think? :-) And I made it 46 rather than 42 just to confuse the base 13ers. It almost worked, but one (Stephen) caught on. Isn't it great how we can start a discussion on almost any topic? Jon Gary Smith wrote: I am not off base. You will note that I said the word, MAY, leaving the option open for the correct base. Jon is the one who insisted on base 12. I just left the door open for many possible solutions, showing once again that the answer 42 does not yet have A (as in single) perfect // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] One Party Rule?
On Tue, 12 Nov 2002 07:25:28 -0800, Doug McGee [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: I did go to a restaurant on a Sunday back in June. We were on vacation and figured we had to eat something. Hmm, so it is ok to break the sabbath on vacation? You probably should have bought something the night before. Course, I am just picking at you, it isn't up to me to judge. I always hate it when I have to travel on Sunday. Sometimes, though, it isn't really avoidable. I tend to use (not abuse) the Ox in the mire philosophy. For instance, there was a time a few months back where I had to run to the store for something we really needed on a Sunday. I felt really bad about it, and resolved more strongly to anticipate such needs before hand. I did go, but I repented of my lack of forethought. Most of the time if I find I need something on a Sunday, I just have to do without. I don't recall what it was that was so important, but I do recall the incedent as I felt so badly about it. Scott -- Buttered bread always lands butter side * Would YOU mistake these as down (Unless it sticks to the ceiling!) * anyone`s opinions but my own? Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Scott McGee) Web: http://scott.themcgees.org/ -- http://fastmail.fm - Consolidate POP email and Hotmail in one place // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] One Party Rule?
Scott favored us with the following: I tend to use (not abuse) the Ox in the mire philosophy. For instance, there was a time a few months back where I had to run to the store for something we really needed on a Sunday. I felt really bad about it, and resolved more strongly to anticipate such needs before hand. I did go, but I repented of my lack of forethought. Most of the time if I find I need something on a Sunday, I just have to do without. I don't recall what it was that was so important, but I do recall the incedent as I felt so badly about it. Generally, I have found that if I need something on a Sunday (like an egg or two) and cannot seem to go without it, I will go to a neighbor's house and ask if I can borrow the item from them. I figure it gives me chance to get to know my neighbors (and take advantage of them, apparently - ;-), while at the same time avoid going to the store and purchasing what I need. Of course, as you said, it is best to anticipate your Sabbath day needs and purchase / prepare them the day before. Geoff -- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
[ZION] truman the villain
Actually, no. We had a treaty, signed by Congress, stating we would defend Korea from any invasions. Congress also ratified our working with the UN on fighting the war. So, it was done under the okay of our Constitution. You see, the Constitution doesn't say we have to declare war, it only says that it is Congress' duty to declare war. Would you say that the Nephites and Capt Moroni should then have trudged into Lamanite territory and totally obliterated the enemy? Or was their defensive war a villanous thing to do? This sounds totally opposite what you have been saying concerning the possible upcoming war with Iraq. We just see it differently. Different enemies require different treatments. Some can be persuaded with diplomacy, some with a little muscle and containment, while others require full out offensive. If it were just us against the North Koreans, I can see your point. But as Jesus told us that the wise man counts his pennies before building the house, we had to determine just what level of interdiction we were willing to make in Korea. Given that the Soviets would have jumped in on the war if we were to have invaded China, we were looking at nuclear holocaust. Truman wasn't willing to go that far, and I thank him for it. K'aya K'ama, Gerald/gary Smithgszion1 @juno.comhttp://www .geocities.com/rameumptom/index.html No one is as hopelessly enslaved as the person who thinks he's free. - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe JWR: Unless the order is illegal. And Truman's orders were clearly illegal by any constitutional standards. The whole war was unconstitutional. And that is the whole problem. Nations have no business going to war with a limited plan. Do you think that either the North Koreans or China had a limited plan? Talking about a limited plan is talking about pulling your punches. And in any fight, pulling your punches is the road to defeat such as we suffered in Vietnam. Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] China
China used to supply technology to India, but India's now far more advanced than China. They have never supplied anything to Pakistan as far as I'm aware, who was the US client in the region during the Cold War. China also has some major border issues with India, and India has given refuge to a number of Tibetans, which rankles Beijing. They even had a few border skirmishes in the Himalayas back in the 70s or 80s, iirc. India was primarily the Soviet Union's client during the Cold War. They almost certainly have provided all kinds of assistance, including military and technological, to North Korea. Our sister province in China is Heilongjiang, the NE-most province of China (capital, Harbin, which is also Edmonton's sister city; their second city and actual centre of the oil industry, Daqing, is Calgary's sister city. Heilongjiang, an oil-producing region, is not known for its technology (although it's made recent impressive advances) but I believe a lot of primary resources were sent to North Korea from the Heilongjiang area over the years. Or through Heilongjiang in any case. In an interesting coincidence of nordicity, Heilongjiang and Alberta are both partnered with Hokkaido, Japan. Which reminds me, if Cousin Bill is listening, but a Hokkaido court has deemed it illegal for bathhouses to exclude foreigners, long a sore spot with foreigners, even those who are Japanese citizens. ObNameDropping: Two anecdotes -- 1. A company I was working for before I got into medical products, a company that's now defunct, made powerful image analysis systems for the interpretation of satellite imagery. It was a kind of AI software and we added special array processors to a VAX 780 to power it, but the real IP was the software, which used intelligent pixels and performed various kinds of transforms and filters to it to get all kinds of data. We sold several systems to Wuhan University (in the south, west of Shanghai) who used it to develop a system using LANDSAT V (US), SPOT Image (French) and RADARSAT (Canadian) satellites to make very quick estimates of rice yields in different areas, and also to explore the Xinjiang arid region to the NW, an area populated largely by non-Han peoples such as the Uighers, who are Muslim (this area is also known as East Turkistan, but that's a non-word in official Chinese, just as Tibetan is and for the same reason). As it says on the website of the Chinese embassy in Ottawa, In July 1985, Mr. LI Xiannian, President of China, made a state visit to Canada, the first one by the President of China to Canada after the establishment of diplomatic relations between the countries. President LI Xiannian met with Governor General Jeanne SAUVE and Prime Minister Martin Brian MULRONEY and held talks with them. The position of president is ceremonial, like a governor general here, or the Bundespräsident in Germany, but he and his entourage toured our plant, as we were doing a lot of business with our company (my colleague, who covered China and East Asia, has even been to Urumqi, the capital of Xiangjiang, near Lon Nor, where China's nuclear testing facility -- their equivalent of Alamogordo, if you will -- one of the few western businessmen to go there at the time). I shook Pres. Li's hand, which means I have personally met someone who was a veteran of the Long March and a confidant of Mao Zedong, so there's only 1 degree of separation between me and Mao. 2. The Vice-Governor (Science) of Heilongjiang came to Edmonton on an official visit before I went on sick leave, a visit I co-hosted (although of course it was my minister, the Minister of Innovation and Science, and the Minister of International and Intergovernmental Relations who were the official co-hosts -- Marv and I did all the leg work, though (I've emailed Marv, my co-host counterpart in IIR to get her name and the date of the visit, because I can't remember). It would have been in the summer of 2001, in any case. She was a very nice, unassuming but dignified lady. The first thing Marvin, my colleague at IIR did, when we picked them up at the airport in a big rental van, was stop off on the way downtown at an inobtrusive but good quality Chinese restaurant (a real one, not North American style) because we found out they had all, including the vice-governor (who's the counterpart of a minister), flown economy class on China's national airlines from Beijing to Vancouver without stopover and with no meals served on the flight, and then had taken an additional Air Canada flight from Vancouver which was a late night flight and so likewise did not serve any meals. We ended our trip with the ritual exchange of gifts after a meeting at a fancy restaurant here called Characters (very nouveau up market), and I remember the Vice-Consul from the Chinese consulate-general in Calgary sitting next to my boss, slowly getting drunk on Chinese rocket fuel, which they call liqueur (I think it does double-duty; very efficient that way). It was 80
Re: [ZION] Quebec man detained for buying gas in Maine
My goodness. How difficult would it be for the US and Canada to sign a treaty and redraw the border by a few yards? Let the pumps fly the Canadian flag, and if'll make the U.S. happy, let them build their fences and their watchtowers behind the filling station. And if the US is concerned about losing territory, maybe they can get a few hectares of land in the Yukon annexed to Alaska, and then it's all even-steven. I mean, don't get me wrong, I don't ordinarily have an issue with our respective governments trying to enforce a border, but this is ridiculous! Incidentally, that makes me wonder...how is the gas station itself able to conduct business? Must it file U.S. and Canadian tax returns? What if the cash register is on the Canadian side of the line? Does that mean customers then pay both Maine sales tax and the Canadian GST? Is there a huge painted red line in the middle of the station's parking lot that says Caution: US Border, cross at your own risk? And if our government is willing to do all this for a gas station, what might they do if a Shopper's Drug Mart occupied the same space? Oh, the ideas that abound... /Sandy/ // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Populations (was Re: [ZION] umbrella)
in such a meagerly populated nation as yours? They might even outnumber you! Is Canada a small country population-wise? I get bored and annoyed hearing about how small our population is. Let's get the facts straight. Populations of Some Countries (in millions) = 1.) China 1300 2.) India 1000 3.) United States 285 (yes, that's right, the US has the world's third largest population. That puts a lot of things into perspective for me.) 4.) Indonesia 231 5.) Brazil 176 6.) Pakistan 147 7.) Russia 145 8.) Bangladesh 133 9.) Nigeria 130 10.) Japan 127 So where is Canada in the great heap of nations? There are 235 countries, more or less - it gets tricky in some cases. 35.) Canada 31 That puts Canada in the top 15% of all countries in the world by population. So Canada is not a small country by population; it is only small compared to the US who just happens to be its nearest neighbour. (Have a look at this interesting graph of country by population size: http://www.geohive.com/global/gen_popsize.php ) Canada does have one of the lowest population densities in the world (about 224th) at 3.36 people per square km. Compare that with Bangladesh at 949 (12th) or the US at 29.77 (172nd). Oh, and as an interesting side note, proven oil reserves have increased over the past decade. In other words, the world continues to use oil at a phenomenal rate (75 million barrels per day = about 28 billion barrels per year) and yet the amount left over continues to _increase_ (from 1 trillion to 1.05 trillion in about ten years). At this rate, we will never run out of oil but will rather have more and more all the time. A barrel is equal to 159 litres (42 gallons). And the proven reserves do not even include the Alberta Oil Sands which have more oil than the rest of the world put together, one quarter of which is believed to be economically and technically retrievable. (BTW, Gary, I'm laughing with your jokes here, so this wasn't an angry outburst against this statement of yours. I just found it an opportune moment to go off on a tangent.) = Mark Gregson [EMAIL PROTECTED] = -- ___ Get your free email from http://mymail.operamail.com Powered by Outblaze // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Seminary
Thanks for this. I've always been a great fan of the CES system. Jon Spencer wrote: As you may recall, I am a stake seminary supervisor (as well as a seminary teacher and a scoutmaster). One of my teachers had to stop teaching because his work now requires him to come in at 6 AM - sort of tough to be in two places at once if you have a physical body. This brother let us know about 7 weeks ago, but the priesthood was a tad slow in finding a replacement. His boss finally said ahem - uh, we need you now or words to that effect. -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] truman the villain
At 10:51 AM 11/14/2002, Gary wrote: If it were just us against the North Koreans, I can see your point. But as Jesus told us that the wise man counts his pennies before building the house, we had to determine just what level of interdiction we were willing to make in Korea. Given that the Soviets would have jumped in on the war if we were to have invaded China, we were looking at nuclear holocaust. Truman wasn't willing to go that far, and I thank him for it. Were it not for economic and technical assistance given to the Soviet Union and Red China by the United States the North Koreans would never have invaded the South. They wouldn't have been in a position to do so. In fact, a good position can be made that it was aid, trade and diplomacy which built up the Soviet Union, Red China, and their satellite states over the years. The Russian invasion of Afghanistan being a good case in point. How did the Russians invade Afghanistan? Over a highway built by U.S. Foreign Aid Dollars with trucks built at the Kama River Truck Plant also built by U.S. help. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] HTML BODY a href=http://www.getusout.org;img border=0 src=http://www.getusout.org/images/guolink.gif;/a PPBR /BODY /HTML // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Magnetic Personality
Careful. Someone on LDS-Poll, who writes under a pseudonym, made a claim that there were only 100 MRIs in all of Canada. It turns out there are almost 25 in Alberta alone (pop.: 3 000 000) after I did some research. Incidentally, private insurance isn't illegal here -- I have Blue Cross, for instance, to cover prescription drugs and a few other things -- it's just that there's not much point to it. Given the power of the government insurance plans (their size), they can negotiate low drug prices with suppliers. That's why drugs cost so much less here. I've had MRI's within hours notice, such as once when I fell and had a serious concussion. They rushed me by ambulance to U of Alberta Hospital and I had an MRI right away (it showed a subdural haematoma). Where we have waiting lists is in non-urgent situations like joint problems. You can wait for several months for an MRI for something like that. Jon Spencer wrote: I have had several MRI's done (I know that is hard to imagine if you live in Canada, given the scarcity of MRI equipment there and the prohibition against private insurance, etc.). Some of the techs have referenced their own experience with this phenomenon, having watches fly across the room, etc. Jon Marc A. Schindler wrote: It couldn't have been a CAT scan, which is just a glorified, spinning x-ray machine, basically. I heard it was an MRI. I don't dispute Stephen -- he sounds like he knows what he's talking about, but I can't remember any more than what I wrote. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Stephen Beecroft: -Marc- ... a tech had inadvertently left an oxygen cylinder in the room, and when the MRI was turned on, it got sucked right into the core, killing the poor patient (a young boy) instantly. Unless MRI technology has changed significantly in the last 7-8 years, I find this a bit hard to swallow. I heard the story pretty much as Marc described it. I didn't hear a retraction. Maybe it wasn't an MRI or was a CAT scan or something, or maybe the report wasn't accurate, but I do remember hearing about it a few months ago on the radio and reading about it in the paper. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] One Party Rule?
Pres. Harold B. Lee had an interesting aphorism. He said, It's okay to rescue your ox from the mire on Sunday. But not if you pushed him into it on Saturday evening. (he meant: prepare yourselves for the Sabbath ahead of time to the extent you can) Geoff FOWLER wrote: Scott favored us with the following: I tend to use (not abuse) the Ox in the mire philosophy. For instance, there was a time a few months back where I had to run to the store for something we really needed on a Sunday. I felt really bad about it, and resolved more strongly to anticipate such needs before hand. I did go, but I repented of my lack of forethought. Most of the time if I find I need something on a Sunday, I just have to do without. I don't recall what it was that was so important, but I do recall the incedent as I felt so badly about it. Generally, I have found that if I need something on a Sunday (like an egg or two) and cannot seem to go without it, I will go to a neighbor's house and ask if I can borrow the item from them. I figure it gives me chance to get to know my neighbors (and take advantage of them, apparently - ;-), while at the same time avoid going to the store and purchasing what I need. Of course, as you said, it is best to anticipate your Sabbath day needs and purchase / prepare them the day before. Geoff -- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
[ZION] The Pohémégamook Affair continues
Michel Jalbert, the francophone jailed for doing what the INS said was perfectly legal in a 1991 letter, was released on bail yesterday, as I reported, but it turns out that before he could leave Bangor, he was arrested again by INS officials. On what grounds? For being in the country illegally, even though it's for that charge (amongst others) that he is to be tried for in January, and for which trial he was granted bail. This case is getting stranger and stranger all the time. He doesn't get the bail money back, either, so he's in jail, and out the bail money. There's something that smacks of double jeopardy -- even triple jeopardy here. Never mind an obscure logger from a town no one's ever heard of before (even in Quebec) -- just think of what this could mean if your new Homeland Security ministry acts this way towards US citizens. Yeah, okay, I'm scare-mongering, but so be it. -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: Populations (was Re: [ZION] umbrella)
At 12:57 AM 11/15/2002 +0800, Mark wrote: So where is Canada in the great heap of nations? There are 235 countries, more or less - it gets tricky in some cases. 35.) Canada 31 Wow! That's almost as many people as California! Rick Mathis // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Truman the Villain
No battle plan ever survives first contact with the enemy. We went into Korea with a limited plan; do not allow the Communists to take over Korea. John: And that is the whole problem. Nations have no business going to war with a limited plan. Do you think that either the North Koreans or China had a limited plan? Talking about a limited plan is talking about pulling your punches. And in any fight, pulling your punches is the road to defeat such as we suffered in Vietnam. Dan: Sure they do, the 'ideal' limited plan would be to just defend our country right? The North Korean's plans were limited to the overthrow of the sitting government. The Chinese plan was limited to helping the North Koreans with theirs; else why didn't the Chinese take the opportunity to invade Japan? A limited plan takes into account what your intentions, abilities, and resources are. Expanding the scope of the Korean war, as MacArthur wanted to do, would have involved the Russians and their nukes at some point. Our intentions from the beginning of the Korean war was simply to reject the North Korean take over of the Korean government. We were doing that, quite successfully, until the Chinese stepped in. Truman had no intention of attacking China because of their alliance with Russia; he didn't want to try to take both of them on at the same time. A war with China was outside the scope of the original purpose of our actions in Korea. When the Chinese entered the battle the scope completely changed . Truman was not willing to throw us into another full-scale war with all of the negative impacts it would have at home. John: Truman was a traitor to his country and a betrayer of the men who served under him in battle. And if negative impacts were going to keep us from going for a victory, then we never should have gone into Korea in the first place. Victory is the ONLY moral objective in a war. First, may darn sure you are justified in going to war, and second, win it or die trying. Korea was an undeclared, ie. unconstitutional, police action. We had no business there, especially as part of a UN operation. And all of the top civilian leaders who put us there and then didn't let us take the war to the enemy are going to burn in hell unless they repented. Dan: Where does the Constitution state what specific wording is required for congress to declare war? The Senate ratified the multinational treaty creating the UN in '45. Congress ratified the UN resolution stipulating the use of military force in Korea. In addition, we had a treaty with the Korean government to come to their aid if attacked. Our involvement in the Korean war was constitutionally sound - even though the treaties that made it so were certainly closed-minded. The negative impacts were the complete loss of an entire generation of young men vs. a relative handful, significant economic hardship for the people that remained home, and the very real probability that Russia might drop a nuke on American soil. The moral objective of going into Korea was _very_ clear; until the Chinese jumped in. The Korean war needed to stay within the initial scope of denying the Communists all of Korea. John: Wrong. The only morally acceptable initial scope should have been defeating North Korea for their incursion into the south. And China should have known up front that if they interfered they would have to deal with us in a full scale war. Dan: It was. The Korean war was basically a civil war. The North Koreans already controlled part of Korean; hence their distinction as 'North' Koreans. Our scope was limited to ensuring that they did not overthrow the government, and thus control all of the Korean peninsula. The Chinese were likely _hoping_ that we would start a full scale war with them; they were expecting backup from the Russians. Once that battle started, there would have been nothing to stop the Russians from rolling over Europe. John: The truth of the matter is, we had people in our government that were on the side of North Korea and China. That is why they conducted the war the way they did. The same thing happened in Vietnam. If a country isn't going to go all out to win a war, it should stay out of it in the first place. Anything else is a betrayal of the men who fight, their families, their communities, and the nation. Dan: In war you have to choose which battles you want to focus your efforts on. You don't want to throw away resources on something that will provide limited tactical or strategic benefit. We have also had government leaders that wanted our country to be a monarchy instead of the constitutional republic it's supposed to be. We also had an Army General who was more interested in fighting than the good of the country. We owe it to our fighting men to waste as little of their blood as possible while living up to our agreements. I personally would like to see most of those agreements scratched, but until they are we have a duty to honor
Re: [ZION] Hardwired for God?
Mazzaroth. Job 38:32. -- Steven Montgomery At 12:11 PM 11/14/2002, Marc wrote: Actually ancients did not make a distinction between astrology and astronomy as we do -- the prohibition against astrology is being read back into the OT, which is anachronistic. Zodiac mosaics have been found on the floors of 1st century BC synagogues in Israel, and the zodiac (as in the Babylonian system of 12 houses) actually appears at one point in Job, although they don't use the English word. Anyone know what it's called? // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
[ZION] Those efficient Germans, they never lose a pfennig...
From Social Studies in this morning's Grip and Peel: This month, dozens of suspected criminals in Germany found out that their telephones were being tapped by security services when a software glitch caused them to be billed for the eavesdropping. Eefstroffing? But I just got the roof fixed last month!! -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
[ZION] new book from FARMS
Posted from another list with permission of Daniel C. Peterson: Daniel C. Peterson wrote: It has been a banner week for the Publications Department at FARMS. Not only did Echoes and Evidences come off the press on Monday but, today, the first volume in the new Eastern Christian Texts series (a readable and interesting bilingual edition of Yahya ibn Adi's tenth century treatise on ethics, The Reformation of Morals, translated by Father Sidney Griffith of Catholic University in Washington D.C.) appeared, as well as Revelation, Reason, and Faith: Essays in Honor of Truman G. Madsen. The latter weighs in at more than 800 pages, with essays by the editors (Donald Parry, Daniel Peterson, and Stephen Ricks) as well as by Dillon Inouye M. Gerald Bradford James Charlesworth James Faulconer Guttorm Fløistad Louis Midgley C. Terry Warner Gary Gillum David Paulsen and Blake Ostler David Seely Andrew Skinner John Tvedtnes Davis Bitton Richard Bushman Andrew Hedges Daniel McKinlay David Whittaker Joseph Dan Raphael Jospe David Rosen Seth Ward S. Kent Brown David Noel Freedman and Rebecca Frey John Lundquist Ann Madsen Jacob Milgrom R. J. Zvi Werblowsky Three major books in one week isn't bad. The newest FARMS Review of Books should come off the press next week. -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
RE: [ZION] Populations (was Re: umbrella)
Rick Mathis wrote: --- Wow! That's almost as many people as California! --- Yah. Canada can't accomodate as many as Califoria. Not enough freeways to park them on. --- Mij Ebaboc // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
[ZION] Anachronistic God?
This is probably anachronistic too, I suppose. (Abraham 1:31.) 31 But the records of the fathers, even the patriarchs, concerning the right of Priesthood, the Lord my God preserved in mine own hands; therefore a knowledge of the beginning of the creation, and also of the planets, and of the stars, as they were made known unto the fathers, have I kept even unto this day, and I shall endeavor to write some of these things upon this record, for the benefit of my posterity that shall come after me. --- Mij Ebaboc // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: [ZION] Hardwired for God?
Marc A. Schindler wrote: --- Actually ancients did not make a distinction between astrology and astronomy as we do -- the prohibition against astrology is being read back into the OT, which is anachronistic. Zodiac mosaics have been found on the floors of 1st century BC synagogues in Israel, and the zodiac (as in the Babylonian system of 12 houses) actually appears at one point in Job, although they don't use the English word. Anyone know what it's called? --- Revisionist history? --- Mij Ebaboc // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Coffee beans
The doctor told him he could either pay a dollar per caffeine pill or drink a cup of coffee every day. So at breakfast, he would say it was time to take his medicine, then drink a cup of coffee. Since it was prescribed, it wasn't breaking the WoW. Cool story. I agree. What's the name of the doctor so I can get my prescription? ;-) Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
[ZION] Truman the Villain
After much pondering, Gary Smith favored us with: Would you say that the Nephites and Capt Moroni should then have trudged into Lamanite territory and totally obliterated the enemy? Or was their defensive war a villanous thing to do? This sounds totally opposite what you have been saying concerning the possible upcoming war with Iraq. We just see it differently. Come on, Gary. Surely you can see the difference between deciding the question of whether or not we should go to war, and how we conduct it once we are involved in one. I have repeatedly said that we should have stayed home and not gone to fight in Korea. That is exactly what I have said about Iraq. But once we decide to go to war, we have an obligation to our fighting men to win a victory. Anything less, is a betrayal of them and our whole nation. If we go to war with Iraq again, and let Saddam off again as we did the last time. I will be just as disgusted as I am about Korea. We should stay out of it, and if we don't, we should finished it with an overwhelming and complete victory. These limited wars like Korea, Vietnam, and Iraq are evil wars. They trivialize war, and slaughter good people on both sides to no good purpose. Jon, to you and all those in favor of going to war with Saddam, remember that Iraq is not a democracy. When we kill ten of thousands and hundreds of thousand of Iraqis without killing Saddam, we are killing people who are forced to fight, people who would refuse to fight if they could. They don't deserve to die no matter how offensive Saddam is. They are trapped in a situation not of their own making. We have no right to kill them unless they are a direct threat to our own population. I know. I know. I'm just wasting my breath. I should give a squat about all those hundreds of thousands who are going to die through no fault of their own. And it shouldn't bother me that it is my own country that is going to perpetrate this atrocity. John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] === When you go in for a job interview, I think a good thing to ask is if they ever press charges. --Jack Handy === All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Truman the villain
After much pondering, Gary Smith favored us with: Actually, no. We had a treaty, signed by Congress, stating we would defend Korea from any invasions. Congress also ratified our working with the UN on fighting the war. So, it was done under the okay of our Constitution. Sorry, in the USA treaties have to be ratified by a 2/3 vote of the Senate. Was that done? I doubt it. And in any case, a civil war is not an invasion. You see, the Constitution doesn't say we have to declare war, it only says that it is Congress' duty to declare war. That sounds like clever lawyer talk to me, sort of like That all depends on what 'is' means. As I understand the Constitution--you know, plain English--Congress decides whether, when and who we fight, while the Executive Branch carries on the war. For our Commander and Chief to instigate wars and execute them without a congressional declaration of war is a clear violation of the intent of the Constitution, clever lawyer language notwithstanding. John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] === At present, the Book of Mormon is studied in our Sunday School and seminary classes every fourth year. This four-year pattern, however, must not be followed by Church members in their personal and family study. We need to read daily from the pages of the book that will get a man nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book. (Ezra Taft Benson, October 1988) === All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] truman the villain
After much pondering, Steven Montgomery favored us with: Were it not for economic and technical assistance given to the Soviet Union and Red China by the United States the North Koreans would never have invaded the South. They wouldn't have been in a position to do so. In fact, a good position can be made that it was aid, trade and diplomacy which built up the Soviet Union, Red China, and their satellite states over the years. The Russian invasion of Afghanistan being a good case in point. How did the Russians invade Afghanistan? Over a highway built by U.S. Foreign Aid Dollars with trucks built at the Kama River Truck Plant also built by U.S. help. Specifically by Ford with the authorization of our government. And I'll bet it was financed with government guaranteed loans backed by the good credit of the American taxpayer. --JWR // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] The Pohémégamook Affair continues
After much pondering, Marc A. Schindler favored us with: Never mind an obscure logger from a town no one's ever heard of before (even in Quebec) -- just think of what this could mean if your new Homeland Security ministry acts this way towards US citizens. Yeah, okay, I'm scare-mongering, but so be it. If the citizens of the USA give the government the power to violate fundamental God-given and inalienable rights protected under the Bill of Rights, that power will be used against the innocent, by and by. And that could be you or me. John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] === Atheistic humanism is the opiate of the self-described intellectuals --Uncle Bob === All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Truman the Villain
After much pondering, Dan R Allen favored us with: The negative impacts were the complete loss of an entire generation of young men vs. a relative handful, significant economic hardship for the people that remained home, and the very real probability that Russia might drop a nuke on American soil. I would like to challenge this notion that Russia would have gotten involved if we had gone to war with China as a result of the Korean War. I would also like to challenge the notion that Russia would have nuked us. The Korean War was in 1953, less than 8 years after the end of WWII. Russia was torn to pieces and in shambles because of its desperate war with Germany. It was in economic shambles because the USA and the west hadn't had enough time to prop them up with foreign aid as occurred later. It's nuclear industry was desperately trying to play catchup with the United States because they hadn't developed their own bomb but had to steal ours. And for every nuke they had, we had many. Not even Russia is stupid enough to open a nuclear conflict with a vastly better prepared opponent. The burden of proof is on those who claim that Russia would have entered the war and nuked the USA. I don't believe either contention. Mao went on to kill up to 75 million Chinese to consolidate his power over the new communist regime in China. We could have prevented that if we had just let MacArthur take it to the enemy. China would have capitulated so fast it would have made a head spin. Look how fast it caved in to Japan before we got into the war. In what way was China better suited to wage a war against the United States just a few years later? Why is it that so many Americans feel we should have gotten into WWII earlier in order to prevent Hitler from killing 6 million domestic Jews, but they feel perfectly justified in letting China kill 75 million domestic Chinese. When China attacked us across the Yalu, we should have cleaned their clock. And when Truman ordered MacArthur to let them go, he should have resigned his commission. Truman's action in giving such an order to MacArthur was unspeakably immoral. And those who don't agree, just don't understand the situation. Truman was a Democrat for Pete's sake. Why are you sticking up for him? Why are you trying to justify undeclared wars that are police actions? I just don't understand how you and Jon can have swallowed all this public school textbook propaganda. Anyway, I'm starting to get angry about this thread, so I'm going to quit participating in it. No wonder this country is wallowing in the sewer when the best people I know support it criminal folly. John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] === Laurie got offended that I used the word puke. But to me, that's what her dinner tasted like. --Jack Handy === All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Truman the Villain
After much pondering, Dan R Allen favored us with: It was. The Korean war was basically a civil war. The North Koreans already controlled part of Korean; hence their distinction as 'North' Koreans. Our scope was limited to ensuring that they did not overthrow the government, and thus control all of the Korean peninsula. The Chinese were likely _hoping_ that we would start a full scale war with them; they were expecting backup from the Russians. Once that battle started, there would have been nothing to stop the Russians from rolling over Europe. This is just baloney. I don't believe a word of it. China was not hoping any such thing. And Russia was in no position to be rolling over Europe. It was completely trashed by Germany only eight years earlier and it nuclear capability was something stolen, not developed in house. Further, it was such a fledgling industry they couldn't possibly have prevail against the USA. Plus we were still fully mobilized and gaining steam after our WWII victory. Of all the nations on this planet we were among the most untouched by WWII. None of the fighting was done on our soil, and the war had only made us stronger by mobilizing our industry. I've got to stop this. It's killing me. John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] === We tend to scoff at the beliefs of the ancients. But we can't scoff at them personally, to their faces, and this is what annoys me. --Jack Handy === All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] truman the villain
After much pondering, Marc A. Schindler favored us with: You mean Congress isn't doing its duty if it isn't always declaring war on someone? No wonder they want to invade Canuckistan now -- there are no other rogue states left. Congress has no duty to declare war. It just has a constitutional prerogative to do so that the Executive Branch doesn't have. But it's all academic anyway. Our government abides by the Constitution only when it is convenient. It wants us to obey the law but feels that it is above the law. John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] === At present, the Book of Mormon is studied in our Sunday School and seminary classes every fourth year. This four-year pattern, however, must not be followed by Church members in their personal and family study. We need to read daily from the pages of the book that will get a man nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book. (Ezra Taft Benson, October 1988) === All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] truman the villain
At 05:42 PM 11/14/2002, you wrote: After much pondering, Steven Montgomery favored us with: Were it not for economic and technical assistance given to the Soviet Union and Red China by the United States the North Koreans would never have invaded the South. They wouldn't have been in a position to do so. In fact, a good position can be made that it was aid, trade and diplomacy which built up the Soviet Union, Red China, and their satellite states over the years. The Russian invasion of Afghanistan being a good case in point. How did the Russians invade Afghanistan? Over a highway built by U.S. Foreign Aid Dollars with trucks built at the Kama River Truck Plant also built by U.S. help. Specifically by Ford with the authorization of our government. And I'll bet it was financed with government guaranteed loans backed by the good credit of the American taxpayer. --JWR Exactly so. $153 million from the export-import bank ran by William J. Casey at the time. The bank providing the money was David Rockefeller's Chase Manhattan Bank. Other contractors involved in building the Kama River Truck Plant besides the Ford Company was Glidden Machine Tool Company, Gulf and Western Industries, Honeywell, the Swindell-Dressler Company, Warner Swazey, the Ingersoll Milling Machine Company, and the E.W. Bliss Company. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] . . . it is as much their [The Elders of Israel] duty to study correct political principles as well as religion, and to seek and know and comprehend the social and political interests of man, and to learn and be able to teach that which would be best calculated to promote the interests of the world.--John Taylor // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: Populations (was Re: [ZION] umbrella)
After much pondering, Mark Gregson favored us with: Oh, and as an interesting side note, proven oil reserves have increased over the past decade. In other words, the world continues to use oil at a phenomenal rate (75 million barrels per day = about 28 billion barrels per year) and yet the amount left over continues to _increase_ (from 1 trillion to 1.05 trillion in about ten years). At this rate, we will never run out of oil but will rather have more and more all the time. A barrel is equal to 159 litres (42 gallons). And the proven reserves do not even include the Alberta Oil Sands which have more oil than the rest of the world put together, one quarter of which is believed to be economically and technically retrievable. Not only that, it is meaningless to talk about proven oil reserves without linking it to the price of crude. As the price of crude goes up, oil reserves that are not commercially viable become viable. Raise the price of crude enough, and this earth has many times it current viable oil reserves, many times our needs for that matter, because as the price goes up, the demand goes down. John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] === When you go in for a job interview, I think a good thing to ask is if they ever press charges. --Jack Handy === All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: Populations (was Re: [ZION] umbrella)
At 06:16 PM 11/14/2002, you wrote: After much pondering, Mark Gregson favored us with: Oh, and as an interesting side note, proven oil reserves have increased over the past decade. In other words, the world continues to use oil at a phenomenal rate (75 million barrels per day = about 28 billion barrels per year) and yet the amount left over continues to _increase_ (from 1 trillion to 1.05 trillion in about ten years). At this rate, we will never run out of oil but will rather have more and more all the time. A barrel is equal to 159 litres (42 gallons). And the proven reserves do not even include the Alberta Oil Sands which have more oil than the rest of the world put together, one quarter of which is believed to be economically and technically retrievable. Not only that, it is meaningless to talk about proven oil reserves without linking it to the price of crude. As the price of crude goes up, oil reserves that are not commercially viable become viable. Raise the price of crude enough, and this earth has many times it current viable oil reserves, many times our needs for that matter, because as the price goes up, the demand goes down. John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] Also, as the price goes up so does the demand for more drilling and exploration, hence more reserves. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Nations are defined by their founders. George Washington set a standard of selfless public service and heroic private virtue against which American politicians continue to be measured - and found wanting - even today. --Steven W. Mosher // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
[ZION] 7 Nukes in US Cities
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Front_Page/DK15Aa01.html Seven Nukes in US Cities al-Qaedo Warns THE ROVING EYE Apocalypse Now, or Alottanukes Soon By Pepe Escobar At a time when a tape handed over to the Qatar-based Al-Jazeera television station has received widespread expose for its purported comments by Osama bin Laden in praise of recent terror events around the world, another al-Qaeda message released to the same station has received little coverage. Al-Jazeera was granted an interview with one Mohammed al-Usuquf, allegedly al-Qaeda's number three. Al-Usuquf is said to be a doctor in physics and to hold a masters degree in international economics. A copy of the interview was sent to the prestigious Arab-language daily Al Quds Al Arabi, edited in London, but it was not printed. Asia Times Online has obtained a copy of the interview, and reproduces excerpts here, with the caveat that the identity of the man has not yet been confirmed, nor has his membership within al-Qaeda. Al-Usuquf says that al-Qaeda's Kuwaiti spokesman, Sulaiman Abu Ghaith, and bin Laden himself, suggested that he grant the interview. Bin Laden, he says, is alive and healthy, along with his commanders Mohammed Atef, Khalid Shaik Mohammed and Mullah Omar. Al-Usuquf starts by criticizing Washington's disrespect of the Kyoto Protocol on climatic change, the International Criminal Court and the Palestinian cause, as well as the financial greed engendering speculative gains over Third World countries. He also criticizes the manner in which America wastes wealth, like US$80 billion a year on gambling. They [have] lost the notion of spirituality and only live in sin. For this reason, America must be destroyed, and al-Usuquf insists that aircraft carriers, nuclear submarines and spy satellites will be worthless in the next war. Al-Qaeda, according to him, has 5,000 first rank operatives and around 20,000 all over the world. Of all the prisoners in the US, only 20 or 30 are al-Qaeda, and all of them second-rank. Confirming Asia Times Online information, he swears that there are no first-rank prisoners in Guantanamo in Cuba. Al-Usuquf says, We have more than 500 first-rank and 800 second-rank [operatives] inside the US. First rank are considered ones that have lived in the US for more than 10 years, most of them married with children. They have an idea about the plans, and they are just waiting for a call. Second-rank operatives arrived in the past five years and have no idea about the plans. They are all willing to die. Al-Usuquf insists that September 11 was just the beginning. It was a way to call the world's attention to what's going to happen. He then details a plan to destroy the US by attacking the heart of what they consider the most important thing in the world: money. The American economy is an economy of false appearances, says al-Usuquf. There's no real economic weight. American GNP is something around $10 trillion, but only 1 percent comes from agriculture, and only 24 percent from industry. So 75 percent of its GNP comes from services, and most of it is financial speculation. For someone who understands economics, and apparently America's Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill does not, or cannot, the US as a whole behaves like an immense dot.com, and dollars are its stocks. The value of stocks from a given company is directly proportional to its profitability. When a company only provides services, but does not produce goods, the value of its stocks depends on its credibility. What I'm saying is if US credibility is affected, its stocks - the US dollar - will fall at tremendous speed, and the whole American economy will collapse. Al-Usuquf is absolutely positive, because, in a smaller scale, this is exactly what big financial conglomerates do with Third World countries to collect profits in one month that no Swiss bank would guarantee in four to five years. Al-Usuquf says that al-Qaeda could do the same by provoking a deficit of $50 to 70 trillion, the equivalent to five to seven years of the GNP of the US. How? By destroying America's seven largest cities and some other measures. The means? Atomic bombs. Al-Usuquf's most startling revelation is that the bombs won't be launched, they are already there. Seven nuclear heads have already been positioned on American soil, before September 11, and they are ready to be detonated. Before September 11, American security was a fiasco, and even later, if we needed, we could position the bombs there. They arrived through seaports, as normal cargo. A nuclear head is not bigger than a fridge, so it can easily be camouflaged as one. Thousands of containers arrive at a seaport every day, and even with very efficient security, it's impossible to check and examine each one of them. This attack would not knock out the US, recognizes al-Usuquf, But the process would be initiated. As with the World Trade Center, it would be just a
Re: [ZION] Quebec man detained for buying gas in Maine
Its owners live in Canada, so you raise a very good question about taxation, and I'm not sure what the answer is. Sandy and Melinda Rabinowitz wrote: My goodness. How difficult would it be for the US and Canada to sign a treaty and redraw the border by a few yards? Let the pumps fly the Canadian flag, and if'll make the U.S. happy, let them build their fences and their watchtowers behind the filling station. And if the US is concerned about losing territory, maybe they can get a few hectares of land in the Yukon annexed to Alaska, and then it's all even-steven. I mean, don't get me wrong, I don't ordinarily have an issue with our respective governments trying to enforce a border, but this is ridiculous! Incidentally, that makes me wonder...how is the gas station itself able to conduct business? Must it file U.S. and Canadian tax returns? What if the cash register is on the Canadian side of the line? Does that mean customers then pay both Maine sales tax and the Canadian GST? Is there a huge painted red line in the middle of the station's parking lot that says Caution: US Border, cross at your own risk? And if our government is willing to do all this for a gas station, what might they do if a Shopper's Drug Mart occupied the same space? Oh, the ideas that abound... /Sandy/ // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] China
I had to ask my co-host for the name of the vice-governor of Heilongjiang and he responded late this afternoon: the visit was just before Labout Day 2000 and there were four Chinese, plus the vice-consul from Calgary. Madame Ma Shujie, Vice Governor, Government of Heilongjiang (responsible for Science and Technology) was the leader of the mission, and the mission also included Mr. Li Fan, Director, Heilongjiang Science and Technology Commission. -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] Hardwired for God?
Very good! You'll have to start looking for a job at the base you'll be in Moose Jaw so long Steven Montgomery wrote: Mazzaroth. Job 38:32. -- Steven Montgomery At 12:11 PM 11/14/2002, Marc wrote: Actually ancients did not make a distinction between astrology and astronomy as we do -- the prohibition against astrology is being read back into the OT, which is anachronistic. Zodiac mosaics have been found on the floors of 1st century BC synagogues in Israel, and the zodiac (as in the Babylonian system of 12 houses) actually appears at one point in Job, although they don't use the English word. Anyone know what it's called? // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] Hardwired for God?
You are right and I am wrong (except on one minor point)-- on re-reading it, I see he bases his calculation on the Julian calendar, not the Gregorian calendar, which is what I assumed (since his conclusions are expressed in terms of the Gregorian calendar.: Here's a link that explains this in much more detail: http://www.stjohndc.org/what/9609ca1.htm Another one that explains the history, but note that they *did* use a different calendar, so their January 6th was not our January 6th. Here's an excerpt: The fact that we follow a different calendar (almost all Orthodox still follow the Traditional Paschalion), from that followed by the world around us is good. It marks us out as a distinct and peculiar people, that kept the ways that are hard (Psalm ?). We have a practical advantage in keeping the Old Calendar in that we can avoid the noisy and crass commercialism that is secular Christmas, and usually, also that surrounding secular Easter. What I learned that was helpful was that while Augustine makes references to 25/12 as being Christmas, and he lived moe than 500 years before the split between the western and eastern churches. But it seems that the eastern churches had developed their liturgy differently than the western churches anyway, so both dates could have existed simultaneously, with 25/12 in the west in the Julian calendar at first, but before too long the Gregorian calendar, and 06/01 in the east on the Julian Calendar. The change in Russia, when it occurred, subtracted almost 2 weeks, which means Julian 06/01 was the same as Gregorian 25/12 -- and that was the assumption I was going on. But as I said, I see that he accounts for this difference. Steven Montgomery wrote: At 12:11 PM 11/14/2002, Marc wrote: The June 12, 2 BC conjunction in Virgo, moving into Leo, was the one I was thinking about, in fact, and I see that Pratt discusses this approvingly. His reading of why Eastern churches celebrate 06 January as the day of Christ's birth is laughable and shows an extreme ignorance of history. It was December 25th under the pre-Gregorian calendar by the time of the Renaissance, and Russia did not adopt the Gregorian calendar until after the Russian Revolution. The Glorious October Revolution actually happened in November, for instance. Guess you'll have to take that up with Jack Finegan, author of, _Handbook of Biblical Chronology_, as that's who Pratt uses as a footnote. Besides, it appears that you are wrong. Epiphany which means manifestation (as in God being made manifest through his birth into mortality), is celebrated by many churches but began with the Eastern Church on January 6th of the Julian Calendar. http://www.kencollins.com/holy-03.htm I wonder who's extremely ignorant of history now. ;-) -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Recall the new star that announced the birth at Bethlehem? It was in its precise orbit long before it so shone. We are likewise placed in human orbits to illuminate. Divine correlation functions not only in the cosmos but on this planet, too. After all, the Book of Mormon plates were not buried in Belgium, only to have Joseph Smith born centuries later in distant Bombay. (Elder Neal A. Maxwell, Conference Report, Saturday Morning, Oct 2002) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] Hardwired for God?
Jim Cobabe wrote: Marc A. Schindler wrote: --- Actually ancients did not make a distinction between astrology and astronomy as we do -- the prohibition against astrology is being read back into the OT, which is anachronistic. Zodiac mosaics have been found on the floors of 1st century BC synagogues in Israel, and the zodiac (as in the Babylonian system of 12 houses) actually appears at one point in Job, although they don't use the English word. Anyone know what it's called? --- Revisionist history? Sorry, Steven already won yet another week to his growing holiday in Moose Jaw. -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
[ZION] Big Mac Indes
No, I'm not trying to report to McDonaldland HQ, but am referring to the Big Mac Index published periodically in The Economist. I thought this might appeal to the economics statistician amongst you. This started out one day some years ago when the boys on St. James's Street were feeling alittle peckish from the office party held the previous evening, so they couldn't concentrate on writing stories, so some suggested a Big Max Index which would list all the countries, then giving their exchange rates vis-à-vis the US Thaler. They would also factor in PPP (Purchasing Power Parity) which shows the real value you're getting for any currency. The final column compares the PPP-adjusted currency exchange and relates it in terms of percentages. A positive percentage means the currency is over-valued, and a negative currency means the currency is under-valued. The article explains some of their methodology and how they use the currency rating system. The Economist promises this index will help economists get their teeth into forecasting economic cycles. Some Big Mac prices (in US$ PPP terms): Least expensive: Argentina: $0.78 Most expensive: Switzerland: $3.81 Some others, just to recognize some foreigners on the list: Canada $2.12 U.K. $2.88 http://www.economist.com/displayStory.cfm?Story_ID=1098872 -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
