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Linda,
You make this too easy.
We all are tolerant,
even when folk break the law; federal or local (the U.S. is
very compassionate towards felons, allowing sentence
reduction, paroles, etc. Just review how we handled the living
aggressors of 911, and the continued killings by the illegal
deported aliens that return here). Illegal aliens have broken
the federal law (crossed our international border without our
permission) and therefore are felons. That makes them illegal
and targeted for deportation.
The U.S. has a legal
immigration policy and practice. (In my opinion, it needs to
be tightened, allowing fewer immigrants for the next decade or
so). *Let any desirable immigrant get in line and submit their
request through that system.* It's there for a reason - but
not to be abused or bypassed.
For consistency, the
U.S. needs *one* language, English, the predominant one. That
way, everyone is on the same literary page, instead of this
dual-language nonsense that has to be printed on most products
within our English country.
Natural resources: you
seem to regard the U.S.'s natural resources as a paramount icon.
I like our national resources as well; we as a nation have
been blessed by God. Those resources provide fiscal independence
from other nations. So if you regard them so highly, why don't
you trek along our international border from Texas to Kalifornia
and clean up the trash left by all the illegal immigrants in
the weeds and wilderness areas. Don't make preservation
statements without backing those up with your action and work.
MAGA,
Mark Winscott
On 7/23/2018 1:14 AM, Linda Starr
wrote:
Thank you, Diana. The NSS did give you all notice. Read your NSS
News. Be a little more tolerant and teach tolerance except of
people who are not tolerant of immigrants (you are one), children
who can’t read or write and those who pollute and misuse natural
resources.
Linda Starr
Sent from my iPhone
Diana, current members update this yearly
when they renew, or if they renew multiple years, then
when it expires. If someone chose to let their membership
lapse, then this is unsolicited contact.
I understand the reason for this, but it was not
handled properly, in my opinion and I certainly didn't
opt in for any phone calls at any time.
Hi,
The NSS, like lots of volunteer organizations,
needs to know who are the people that are interested
in receiving information from the organization.
Since many people change email addresses and phone
numbers, after a few years, the database is no
longer current. This is an effective way to update
the database by a professional company. It's
impractical to ask a group of volunteer cavers to
contact ~10,000 people to ask them about their
personal information--and imagine how upset y'all
would be if you knew it was just some random
volunteer cavers trying to collect this information.
Why does the NSS need this information? As with
most organizations these days, the membership
numbers are decreasing. In order for the NSS to stay
relevant to their current members and to encourage
people to renew their memberships, they need to be
able to provide information to them.
I would hope that as the fine cavers you all are in
the Southwest Region of the NSS, that you would not
want to deny the NSS the opportunity to interact
with you in the future.
Diana
From:
Texascavers <[email protected]>
on behalf of Michael Gibbons <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2018 5:24 PM
To: [email protected]
Cc: Steve Peerman; SWR Cavers Group;
Sandia Grotto; Allen Wright; Lee Skinner
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] [SWR CAVERS]
NSS Publication / scam?
I phoned in. I authorized use of
name, phone number and email.
Asked if I wanted a directory, I
said no. It wasn't a hard sell and they
weren't after ant information that I seem
sensitive.
I think it's innocuous and that
they are doing just what they were hired to
do. Compile a directory and nothing more.
"Do
not call' doesn't apply, since the
contractor presumably is not the one
making the calls.
However, regarding the list, there is an
exemption for non-profits. But, while the
contractor is working for a non-profit,
the company itself is a for-profit entity.
It would be an interesting question
whether they would get a pass due to the
NSS overhead.
Unsolicited emails pretty much follow the
same scheme.
Also, calls/emails are not prohibited for
'customers' who have a business
relationship with the caller, something we
all have by virtue of our membership.
Less clear would be whether lapsed members
could be called/emailed without violating
restrictions. I think a case could be made
that a lapsed member no longer has any
relationship to the organization despite
how desperately the NSS might want them
back.
Regardless of the above (and the
inapplicability of do not call/email in
this instance) it doesn't mean the NSS can
do anything it wants with the private
information gleaned from our member
status.
As events continue to repeatedly
demonstrate, not only is direct hacking of
PII databases a growing problem, but also
misuse of data released to outside
entities. You would think they'd notice
the problems Facebook is in with poor
handling of PII (for which FB also had
assurances of integrity control...that
didn't work out so well for them).
The NSS has assured everyone the data is
secure, but there's no way to ensure that.
I wonder if the NSS can afford (or even
has contemplated the issue/risk) to buy
everyone identity theft protection if the
data escapes the controls? I wonder if the
contractor agreement included a
requirement they would bear that expense
in a data breach. If such an event is on
the NSS, that would cost vastly more money
and members than anything they ever could
gain from this exercise.
Stephen
On 7/19/2018 15:36, Charles Goldsmith
wrote:
I agree, this was not
handled very well at all. Since we did
not agree to this, how does this fall
under the Do-Not-Call registry, from the
FCC's perspective?
It
is a marketing thing authorized by
the NSS.
The NSS says it is costing the
organization no money and the
contractor funds the effort from
sales of the rather pricey
merchandise.
However, the NSS will get a cut of
proceeds: "This is
NOT a significant fund raiser
for NSS, thought [sic] we do get
a small commission on sales."
The percentage of return is not
stated, and the postcard is
disingenuous in not revealing this
financial arrangement. You have to
search the NSS website to find
that tidbit.
Regardless, I won't be calling or
participating; the NSS knows how
to contact me and they already
have everything they need to know.
Allen's listing of the questions
asked goes way beyond basic caver
info and seeks information the NSS
has no business collecting.
I put this thing in the same
category as telemarketers.
Unwelcome and not tolerated.
I did not opt-in for the NSS to
release my contact information,
even to a contractor, for such a
use. The fact that I can decide
not to participate pales beside
the NSS misusing my personal data.
Stephen
13727 RL FE
On 7/19/2018 14:25, Steve Peerman
wrote:
Allen,
It’s
not a scam, but you are under no
obligation to buy the product
that they are making. It is
supposed to be an NSS directory
of all NSS members past and
present. I submitted my
information, but I didn’t buy
the book. It seems rather
pricey to me.
Hey
all,
Just
received a postcard
from some publishing
company about the NSS
members manual.
Anyone else receive
one? Its a yellow
postcard with the
NSS logo on it. It has
a title
of "Verification
of caver data" in all
caps, and a Po Box in
Dallas Tx.
I
called the number on
the card and the phone
operator started
asking some odd
questions about place
of employment, phone
numbers, email,
marital status, name
of spouse, name of
kids, grotto
affiliation. Then at
the end they want you
to send them a
color picture of
yourself, a bill would
then be sent out for
two payments of
$50 for the hard bound
book. Or because I am
a member, would bundle
a sweatshirt, and book
bag, and a digital
copy, for two payments
of $75... I didn't
provide much info, but
started questioning it
by the end.
Anyone
know anything about
this? Is it a scam?
Is the NSS publishing
the members manual in
hardback?
Allen
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