And there is nobody who "must" improve commons help pages as they are all 
volunteers, so if someone wants better help pages, they can have a go at fixing 
them. Do be careful about how you go about it, as it must reflect project 
consensus.  Get agreement on the talk page first for any substantial change to 
minimise strife. 

-----Original Message-----
From: Wikimedia-l [] On Behalf Of 
Tomasz Ganicz
Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2019 5:14 PM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Dispute between Common and Outreach

niedz., 12 maj 2019 o 16:23 Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga <>

> As I am the author of the post, some remarks:
>   *   Commons is, indeed, the only [cloud] storage for file in most of the
> Wikipedias. Making an accusation of using Commons as a storage place is
> unfair and nonsense.

I think - what someone wanted to say - is that Commons is wiki with its own
community, which desire some respect as any other wikimedia communities. In
that sense - it is not cloud service which are usually maintained
automatically. It is better to think about Commons - as a wiki - not as a
cloud storage service.

  *   Communication could be better, of course, but we don't have to think
> on experienced editors and wikimedians, but on people we are trying to
> convince to upload to the Commons and find this burden. They don't know how
> to communicate and why they must do it.

That's true - therefore - when you organize any outreach or GLAM project it
is good to teach the users how to communicate on wiki - as it is a quite
strange system comparing to what typical internet user might be accustomed
to, nowadays.

  *   The upload system allow you to upload something if you are the
> author. Period.

Yes. Exactly. If you think about default upload wizard - it is possible to
upload other's works, but it is not that easy. Also - it is pretty hard to
upload public domain works.

  *   Of course, commons volunteers are few, and they have a great
> job-queue. But outreach volunteers are less, and a project like this can
> take a whole year of volunteer work.

Well - this is disputable. I don't know global proportions - but for
example for Polish part of community - there are actually 3 employees doing
outreach and around 10 volunteers - and there are 3 really active Polish
Common's admins and only one regularly active OTRS agent (me)... Out of
these 3 really active Common's admins - 2 are actually also doing outreach.
And in fact - probably the best thing would be to have in any outreach team
at least one person having good knowledge about hostile Common's habits and
how to effectively cope with them :-)

  *   After all the victim-blaming seen on this discussion no one was able
> to point to a page where the procedure was clear for everyone.

Yeah. Because there is no any single page on Commons that might solve your
problems.  This is the other issue - Common's help pages are well.. far
from being perfect.

Let's hope we can follow with this project next year and we will have less
> problems.
I hope too. This is for sure really interesting project worth any support.

Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz
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