THANK YOU!!! I could not agree with you more. And in the same since, I think
we agree with each other.

Congratulations on an argument "well-played." And well-thought!!!!!!!

Brett P.

On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 11:05 AM, James Ducker <>wrote:

> Hi WSG,
> This entire argument is getting a bit much. Nothing on the web is in and of
> itself particularly accessible. Accessibility in HTML is a joke unless you
> have been taught the right practices. Flash was, is, and will continue to
> be, primarily, a tool for delivery of rich, interactive media. To that end
> accessibility in flash is almost a moot point, as you're never going to be
> able to enable a blind person to watch a video. If the issue is text, you
> shouldn't be using Flash, and if you are you should be implementing it in a
> manner that allows for graceful degradation. I know I'm glossing the issue,
> but bear with me.
> > Plenty of teachers, trainers, training providers, universities, TAFEs,
> schools, HR areas, etc are essentially lazy and can't be bothered to
> actually understand learning theory. This is why they 'continue to be
> committed to linear, push methodologies', it's easy to understand and cheep
> to develop. Vendor just give the market what they want.
> TAFEs and other para-tertiary institutions do this because that is what
> they are there to do. Their purpose is to give students the skills necessary
> to get a job and then self-perpetuate their skills. My experience of
> universities is that they don't do this at all. Even the less technical I.T.
> degrees will throw a smorgasbord of programming languages (no one goes to
> university to write HTML) and development methodologies at you and let you
> figure out which one works best for you. The result of being a good
> programmer is that it becomes easy to pick up ActionScript and use it well.
> Virtually no one writes good ActionScript.
> I've never taught flash to a class, so I won't speculate on its usefulness.
> It is in my opinion something that should be taught to I.T. students because
> of the ubiquity of Flash on the web.
> I think the argument against Flash in eLearning is flawed. It sounds more
> like an argument of how Flash is being used in eLearning. The issue doesn't
> lie with Flash itself, but with how eLearning software producers are using
> it.
> > Teacher/trainer decision makers don't love the web, possibly because they
> > can't control it.
> This is mostly untrue, teachers do love the web. Occasionally you will find
> a teacher whose methods are out of date, but most commonly the issues lie
> with course curricula.
> I have hope that the tide is turning.  Teachers/trainers have experienced
>> the difficulties in creating and maintaining their content in Flash (just
>> try changing one image used in multiple Flash files and the difficulties
>> become clear)
> Again, this boils down to being a bad Flash developer. It took me a few
> seconds to think of a way to modify an image in multiple Flash files at once
> (without interrupting their availability to users either).
>> the web generation is beginning to pierce/influence decision
>> making levels, students/employees that love the web push to learn from
>> formal resources the way they informally learn from the web, plus content
>> changes in ever decreasing time cycles which leaves little time to build
>> and
>> rebuild Flash delivered content.
> I am a student. Formal resources are about the best damn thing that
> university has provided me. Unfortunately it's (arguably) not fun or cool to
> read a programming book cover to cover, so I can see why people complain.
> Stop using the term 'love the web'. Lots of people love the web, I'm sure,
> but it doesn't mean they have the first clue what's good for it.
> The few times I have seen Flash used well and written well it's beautiful.
> It's amazing. It's like having sunshine flowing through your vains. So, do
> you blame HTML for every poorly coded website? Do you blame Flash for every
> bad use of Flash?
> Anyway, it seems like this entire argument would be better stated as
> "People who hate Flash because it doesn't behave in a manner identical to
> HTML, and also because it isn't HTML".
> - James
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