Yes, Chinese Chan are even much more diverse and different in practice 
and teaching.  For instance, our "at-home practice" school, are not 
recognized by those with a temple, shaving heads and robe wearing.  :-)



Edgar Owen wrote:
>
> Chris,
>
>
> Yes, you are referring to the 'sudden' versus the 'gradual' schools, 
> which was a major source of argument and bickering among the Chinese 
> Chan sects with each claiming their way was best.
>
> Edgar
>
>
>
> On Sep 16, 2008, at 11:39 PM, cid830 wrote:
>
>> Here! Here! Mike. I had the same reaction when I read his post. Many of 
>> these people had worked a disciplined practice for years b4 reaching a 
>> breakthrough. And some will never experience it at all (in this 
>> lifetime). And I understand your perspective of how through these years 
>> of dedication and training that when they experience this satori 
>> breakthrough they will be able to live in that state. There are 
>> different schools of thought on that though, as far as living in a 
>> constant state of awareness, or experiencing mini-"breakthroughs" along 
>> the way. 
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Chris
>>
>> --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com 
>> <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>, mike brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi Edgar,
>> > Again, in an ultimate sense I agree with you. Most satori experiences
>> occur off the mat (we cannot determine when they happen so they are a 
>> kind of 'Grace', if you like), but for most people these experiences 
>> are usually preceded by many years of zazen and rarely occur 
>> independently from it (especially in relation to the past Zen masters). 
>> In fact, I would add that to receive a satori like experience without 
>> already practicing zazen could be detrimental to one's spiritual growth
>> because you would probably not have the 'tools' to be able to integrate 
>> the experience into your daily life. I don't completely advocate 
>> the 'aching legs' school of Zen Buddhism (see Alan Watts), but as Bill 
>> says, I don't see any better way to recognising our inherent 
>> enlightenment. Mike.
>> > 
>>
>
>  

------------------------------------

Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are 
reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/

<*> Your email settings:
    Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join
    (Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
    mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
    mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    [EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Reply via email to