Bill;

I'm sorry to say that I was unable to figure out or understand much 
about the conversation between Edgar and yourself. I understand 
better words with simplicity.  I actually believe that the greater is 
the simplicity the greater is also its depth and beauty.  For 
instance, There is this step in one of the guide meditations from TNH 
which says "Present moment, Wonderful moment".  Initially I used to 
think that it was nice but not a very realistic way since the present 
moments varies.  But slowly, slowly I started to penetrate into 
this "koan" finding with surprise that indeed present moment is a 
wonderful moment.  I found that indeed we can choose the mental state 
we want to be!.  Just an exemle to show how words with simplicity 
works much better, at the very least on me. 

You keep talking about illusion.  Illusion is also part of reality.  
Without illusion there wouldn't be reality.  My Teacher says that 
enlightenment, nirvana is made with no elements of nirvana.  I think 
that what he means by that is that both relate to each other and both 
are one.

Mayka   

--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Mayka,
> 
> I disagree with Edgar on this.  Actually this is the same 
disagreement on
> which Edgar and I posted on previously concerning causation and 
eventually
> abandoned our efforts.
> - Edgar thinks reality is made up of many distinct (but sometimes 
related)
> things happening at either the same or different times. (At least 
that is my
> understanding of Edgar's general position.  He can correct me if 
I'm wrong
> in my assessment or if I'm not expressing it well.)
> - I think reality is only one thing (Just THIS!), and there is only 
one time
> (now).
> 
> So, my responses to you are that there is no 'you' doing anything, 
there is
> only ever one thing happening - Just THIS! and it is only ever 
happening
> NOW.  All the other concepts discussed in this post are illusions.
> 
> If you're walking, there is only walking.  The entire universe is 
walking -
> now.  If you're chewing gum, there is only chewing gum.  The entire 
universe
> is chewing gum - now.
> 
> In Zen Buddhism this is referred to as expressing your Buddha 
Nature.  I
> refer to this as Just THIS!
> 
> ...Bill!
> 
> From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
On Behalf
> Of Edgar Owen
> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 6:37 AM
> To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Zen] Question?
> 
> Mayka,
> 
> You are missing my point. One's body is always doing many many 
things at
> once. One could not exist otherwise. Scores of muscles have to move 
together
> to make even the simplest motion. To speak tongue and lips and 
breath must
> all move at the same time. No one ever is doing just one thing. 
That is an
> illusion.
> 
> Edgar
>



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