Anthony, You're easily shocked!
You've mixed two classes of religions here: Buddhism that teaches karma and the family of monotheistic religions (Judaism/Christianity/Islam) who teach the belief in one god (Jehovah/God/Allah). In Buddhism karma is a spiritual version of cause-and-effect. I don't think Buddhists believe karma can ever be 'invalidated'. I think the best they can do is recognize, accept and work through it. In the monotheistic religions the functional equivalent of karma is the belief in sin and punishment. Again, under their precepts I think there is no way to 'invalidate' this cause-and-effect chain, but each of the religions have different ways to deal with it. In Judaism and Islam you can ameliorate sin and punishment with good deeds. Christianity also allows for this but also offers several versions of a 'Get Out Of Jail Free' card. The ones that immediately come to mind are baptism, being saved (accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior) and repentance (asking forgiveness for your sins). Any one of these will wipe your sin/punishment slate clean. Zen, at least the zen I practice, is not a religion so it doesn't have any set definitions or set procedures for manipulating your life (or at least the illusion of your life). Zen, the way I practice it, does not recognize karma or sin in that these things are illusory - just concepts. So it doesn't have a need for a set of actions to 'invalidate' them. I guess you could say the zen I practice 'invalidates' karma and sin/punishment by recognizing them as illusory. Are you still shocked? ...Bill! From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Anthony Wu Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2010 4:05 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: [Zen] Re: FW: Amazon book Bill, I am shocked that you think karma can be invalidated by worshipping God! Anthony --- On Sat, 20/11/10, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: From: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: RE: [Zen] Re: FW: Amazon book To: [email protected] Date: Saturday, 20 November, 2010, 9:23 AM Anthony, That’s me! …Bill! From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Anthony Wu Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2010 5:13 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: FW: Amazon book Chris, You are not alone. We see the world the way it is because many don't believe in karma, believe it can be invalidated one way or the other, or don't bother to think about it at all. Anthony --- On Fri, 19/11/10, ChrisAustinLane <[email protected]> wrote: From: ChrisAustinLane <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: FW: Amazon book To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Date: Friday, 19 November, 2010, 9:28 AM On Nov 18, 2010, at 16:23, Anthony Wu <[email protected]> wrote: > Your action has immediate consequences, as well as those afterwards. Worrying about those long term effects strikes me as being like worrying about what is the outcome of history or life. Who knows. (Worrying here in the sense of putting your full non-dual attention on them; obviously if you are engaged in some task, you will have to figure out your estimate of the effects of various courses of action; use the compostable paper cup or bring a ceramic mug that will eventually break and go into landfill; get this degree to work in that field. ). I can think that the effects of a lifetime of habitual meanness will be severer, but I find for myself that habitual meanness can only be avoided one burning angry moment at a time. Thanks, Chris Austin-Lane Sent from a cell phone __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5631 (20101118) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5634 (20101119) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5634 (20101119) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5637 (20101121) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5637 (20101121) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5637 (20101121) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
