Helge Hess wrote:

I must say I'm rather shocked by this mail.

On Feb 7, 2006, at 11:27, Matt McNeill wrote:
If CalDAV is so far away from being an agreed standard, perhaps several
years away,

FUD, its seems more like CalDAV is close to a release, I would expect it in 2006. AFAIK all major issues are sorted out. But the CalDAV mailing list is the appropriate place to sort this out.

I am curious why you call FUD? He is not saying it is so far away. He is saying IF it is. Big difference. And the standards process does move fairly slowly to be fair.

And still implementing _one_ documented draft is a much better working basis than implementing 3 self-invented protocols, _especially_ if those protocols happen to be HTTP based ones.

This is true.

shouldn't we be considering an interim interface to the most
popular 2 or 3 web-calendar applications?

I wonder how you would select those 2 or 3 web-calendar applications?
I think thats fairly simple and self explanatory. Simply look at activity and popularity. Not to hard to do.

Thanks for all the caldav links and webdav links - but in reality most of
them are experimental, incomplete, or early-adopter applications at the

This again raises the question which servers you have in mind as a backend for otlkcon.

I believe any server that supports CalDAV.

It really drove home to me the impression that these DAV protocols
have yet to get major market acceptance as commodity protocols for web

How did you come to this conclusion? Actually almost all "serious" groupware servers base their open protocols around WebDAV. This even includes Exchange which has broad WebDAV support, or Oracle which is a reference implementation for CalDAV.

He didn't say groupware servers did he? He said web communications.
And to be fair the WebDav support in groupware servers is only recent. It took some time for the standard to mature and become widely used. However its not really used outside of file management and groupware applications. Granted it doesn't have much use outside of those arenas anyway.

 I know IE has partially supported it for years, but how many
major sites _really_ offer the protocol, I've never used it.

This is rather weird since you are posting from a Hotmail account. HotMail happens to use WebDAV for all Outlook communication ...

Yes but how many people know that? How many people use Outlook to send/receive e-mail from hotmail. The whole point of hotmail is that its web based. And even then most people don't realize what protocol is being used.

Plenty. Hotmail uses WebDAV for Outlook communication, every Exchange 2000+ installation offers it, Apple iDisk uses WebDAV, Apple Finder has production WebDAV integration, Apache mod_dav is production quality and wide deployment since ages, all Linux desktops have great WebDAV support (Nautilus, GNOME), iCal, Kontact, Evolution all support ics sharing over WebDAV, GroupDAV/CalDAV servers are all based on WebDAV, etc etc etc

I know and agree that from a standards poit of view what you are doing in
this development is the right thing, but from a user point of view and a
take-up point of view it might be worth considering an interim tack.

This only holds true if the server the user wants to use doesn't support CalDAV. Which makes me wonder what those servers would be.


PS: of course I would also suggest doing the first implemention on the GroupDAV draft which is easier to implement for servers than CalDAV, but sufficiently similiar to 'upgrade' the support to CalDAV later on.

Which is what is being done by the OpenConnector team. No one is diverting limited time/resources to develop interfaces for custom software.

I think the main issue here is that the poster didn't understand the problem fully and was trying to suggest a solution based on incomplete information.

Cal/Group DAV is a good thing. Which is why the OpenConnector team is building support for them into the software. The other standards are already well defined (IMAP/SMTP/LDAP) and servers exist. The Cal/Group DAV standards are getting there and have made good progress. This will only be accelerated by the OpenConnector project.

Charles Wyble
OSER Platform Lead
Open Source Delivery Systems.

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