Re: Obama II
Actually, bugs/design flaws caught during the design phase cost far less than those discovered during the build. Doug GSV Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re:
Yea, what's the deal? Anyone home? Anyone read anything good/interesting? I recently listened to For Whom the Bell Tolls and am now listening to a book called The Mongoliad, Greg Bear being one of several co-authors. The Hemingway was very stark and depressing and a bit obsessed with death but very good all the same. The Bear (et al) is an action packed thriller set during the Mongolian invasion of Europe. I'm also reading Incidents in the Life of a Slave Girl by Harriet Ann Jacobs which is interesting and a bit of an eye opener. Doug On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 1:03 PM, Dan Minette danmine...@att.net wrote: Hi Debbi, I don't think you've been deleted. But we've been real quiet. Dan M. ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Electronic interface options
Hmmm, don't know if there's an easier way, but I just read that G+ is open to the public now; no invite necessary. http://plus.google.com if you're interested. Doug I'm guessing this is a top post. Sorry. On Sep 20, 2011 2:09 PM, Warren Ockrassa war...@nightwares.com wrote: Funny. Having seen this, I just searched you on g+ and added you to my Brin circle! I wonder if there's a way to streamline or transparentize the process. • Warren • off console • w azkrmc.com • h nightwares.com • On Sep 19, 2011, at 21:58, Doug Pensinger brig...@zo.com wrote: I have a Brin-l circle on G+... ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_m... ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Testing...
Charlie wrote: Living In A Land Down Under You better run, you better take cover. Doug Californication ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Electronic interface options
Personally, I like this format over FB, and maybe over G+ too. The fan sites have much less a sense of community than this list has (or had). I use Gmail and it automatically hides quoted text so that's not a big issue (it also has the best spam filter by far that I've come across). FB is good for friends and family and I've resisted the temptation to compile as many friends as I can, even trimming the list a bit now and then. I turn all the game stuff off and I don't respond to pokes and all that as I don't really see the point. I think G+ is superior to FB but most of my FB friends haven't transitioned there so I'm stuck with having to follow both. I have a Brin-l circle on G+ but I only have something like 9 people in it. I'd be interested to know how many of you all are on G+ and in trying that out as a possible successor to the mailing list, but, you know, I really miss the good old days Doug ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: ADMIN: Re: Delivery Status Notification (Failure), was Re: Night Owls Demand Equal Rights!
Me neither. Hi Ticia, good to hear from you. Doug On Sun, Sep 18, 2011 at 5:05 PM, Matt Grimaldi matzeb...@yahoo.com wrote: I DON'T get such messages when sending on the list. -- Matt ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Spoilers?
http://www.scientificamerican.com/podcast/episode.cfm?id=spoiling-the-ending-makes-for-a-bet-11-08-14WT.mc_id=SA_DD_20110815#comments What do you think? Should we forgo the spoiler alerts? Doug ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Brin-l Digest, Vol 29, Issue 8
Hi Jo Anne, G+ is cool in that you can set up different circles of people and then post to one, a few or all of them. You can have a brin-l circle and use it kind of like the email list since, at the click of a button you can view just the brin-l (or family or friend etc) posts. There are a few other differences from FB, but I haven't experimented with any of them yet. Doug On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 2:03 PM, Jo Anne evens...@hevanet.com wrote: Hi Alex -- Can you tell me why I'd want Google+? I just got a smart phone, and so far it's smarter than I am. I had to set up a Google account for that. Thanks. Jo Anne evens...@hevanet.com On 7/22/11 11:00 AM, brin-l-requ...@mccmedia.com brin-l-requ...@mccmedia.com wrote: Send Brin-l mailing list submissions to brin-l@mccmedia.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to brin-l-requ...@mccmedia.com You can reach the person managing the list at brin-l-ow...@mccmedia.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of Brin-l digest... Today's Topics: 1. google (Jon Louis Mann) 2. Re: google (Alex Gogan) 3. Re: google (Kevin O'Brien) -- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2011 12:28:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Jon Louis Mann net_democr...@yahoo.com To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: google Message-ID: 1311276525.21479.yahoomailclas...@web110014.mail.gq1.yahoo.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii me too...~) -- Message: 2 Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 08:07:47 +0100 From: Alex Gogan a...@gogan.com To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: Re: google Message-ID: 4e2921c3.4060...@gogan.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Hi Jon, No probs but you need to get a gmail email account which are free www.gmail.com and can send out the invite. If there are any others have some invites left. Also if any of you guys are interested in joining my circle just look out for me, alex.go...@gmail.com Regards On 21/07/2011 20:28, Jon Louis Mann wrote: me too...~) ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com -- Message: 3 Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 11:57:19 -0400 From: Kevin O'Brien zwil...@zwilnik.com To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: Re: google Message-ID: 4e299ddf.3050...@zwilnik.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed On 7/22/2011 3:07 AM, Alex Gogan wrote: Hi Jon, No probs but you need to get a gmail email account which are free www.gmail.com and can send out the invite. If there are any others have some invites left. Also if any of you guys are interested in joining my circle just look out for me, alex.go...@gmail.com Regards If you have any left, my gmail account is ahuka5...@gmail.com. Thanks, ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Google+
Hi Jo Anne. Just go to your apps store on your smarter than me phone (I've got one too) and type in G+ DB just friended me (or whatever you call it on +). I'm glad _he's_ got a short memory. Doug On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 6:12 PM, Dave Land dml...@gmail.com wrote: On Jul 22, 2011, at 5:45 PM, Jo Anne wrote: evenstar5...@gmail.com Has been invited to Google+ Dave ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Facebook is evil
Alberto wrote: Try replacing breastfeeding with something else, like Hammer and Sickle or cleft lip. They shouldn't be allowed to censor and criminalize something that is not criminal. If they want to censor images of people smoking marijuana, or images of children with guns (and I bet they don't attack those images with the fury they attack breastfeeding, but I may be wrong), then it's ok, but there's no ethical reason to criminalize breatfeeding. How is different than, say, guidelines that discourage obscenities on a mailing list? Doug ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: WikiLeaks
Jon wrote: Anyone with clearance to that level is personally responsible and signed an oath. 23-year-old, Bradley Manning, a US army intelligence analyst, e-mailed former hacker, Adrian Lamo, bragging that he leaked the diplomatic cables to WikiLeaks, along with a highly classified video of U.S. forces killing unarmed civilians in Baghdad. He is currently being held and charged with transferring classified national defense information to an unauthorized source. He faces court martial and up to 52 years in prison. Jon Mann They teach you in the military that there are such things as illegal orders. I would argue that there should also be illegal secrecy. Keeping a war crime a secret would qualify. Doug ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Wikileaks
There seems to be overwhelming sentiment against Wikileaks' release of confidential documents and I was wondering how people here (some of whom may have read Brin's Transparent Society) felt about it. I'm generally for transparency and haven't heard of anything yet that is beyond mildly embarrassing to the U. S. government. I do think where the safety of our troops is concerned confidentially is important, but that government secrets should have a relatively short shelf life in all cases. Doug ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Underwater mortgages and the economy
Dan wrote: Well, the US did prosper from wars it has been in, but that's fairly unique. Germany didn't, France didn't. The USSR didn't; the Cold War broke them. Eventually, but they were our supposed equals for the better part of forty years and one can easily imagine scenarios in which they continued to prosper in at least some sense of the word. And, 'Nam hurt the US economy after a while. We couldn't afford guns and butter as the saying went at the time. Even those who argued it was a mangled but essential part of containment, it cost. Global conflict, to reiterate. Finally, as more countries get nuclear weapons, the odds on any real conflict going nuclear increases. For example, what would happen if Chinese territorial zones kept expanding and were enforced by China's navy? Would the US honor treaties, and what would happen then?' What would happen to our debt to China in the event of such a conflict? Doug ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Underwater mortgages and the economy
Dan wrote: Me: First, let me assure anyone reading this that I in no way advocate war as a solution for anything, I'm just discussing the possible consequences of the State's current situation. Sure, if they invaded Europe in '79 and Carter wasn't willing to start Armageddon. But, the military was a drain on their GDP, rising to 45% of it at the end. Look at the war surrogate, the race to the moon. They weren't close. I think they grew faster than the US for about 5 years. Planned economies are OK for a while, but tend to get caught up in artificial goals. China has been the exception, but that's because we are in an era of no real disruptive innovationsand China doesn't have to adapt. Why Japan is in a funk now is interestingsocially they couldn't make the obvious decisions. The point is that after the war they had a large empire and access to abundant resources. Their subsequent mismanagement of those resources does not negate the fact that they had the potential to prosper as a result of the war. We'd probably repudiate it. But, there's a much easier way to handle it. Get the deficit (not national debt) down, and put inflation up at 15%/year. After a decade, we'd owe them zilch. That's one very unique thing about the US debt. We owe dollars. We can, by one statement of the Fed, get rid of the debt. It wouldn't matter if interest rates went up, fixed debt in inflationary times is good for the borrower, not the lender. Do you really think that China would just let that happen? But, if it got to the point of not paying the debt due to conflict, it would probably get to WWIII. China's nukes aren't that good, so we'd probably only lose LA, NY, Chicago, Houston, Washington, areas. I'd guess we'd get by with less than 50 million killed. I can imagine a scenario in which the likelihood that any of China's nukes hit us is very low, but it would involve a preemptive strike of some sort, defensive nukes, and a way of keeping other powers such as Russia out of it. Considering our power and ability to deliver it to their doorstep, China has much more to fear from a nuclear conflict than we do, but considering the rate at which they are catching up to us, this could change. There are other scenarios that lead to war as well. The people running the PRK are lunatics and they have nukes, though I wouldn't be surprised if they blow themselves up before they blow anyone else up. Then there is the Middle Eastern bag of worms especially when Iran joins the N club. But, I'd also guess that would set back the economy a good bit. At some point, it's set back so far already that it doesn't matter In general war is profitable to the victor if: 1) The homeland isn't hit. 2) They can make money off the conquered. Well, trillions of dollars of debt disappearing overnight might be one source of gain. The fact that we'd have to ramp up our manufacturing capability again would be another. Another thing is that the current atmosphere of internal divisiveness would be ameliorated. Again I make these arguments as devil's advocate; please don't infer that I favor war as any kind of solution for our problems. I do imagine that there _are_ people that would make these kinds of arguments seriously. Doug ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Underwater mortgages and the economy
Dan wrote: It is quite possible that we falter over the next two years, sliding back into depression. One of the most depressing figures is that the average GDP growth rate for the last 30 years will result in unemployment increasing, since we need 3%/year growth to tread water. Not what I meant, sorry, but I was sticking with your definition of black swan as a solution to economic malaise. War, global conflict, would be the most drastic solution. Doug history repeats ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Underwater mortgages and the economy
Dan wrote: So, we had a US economy that was really doing nothing, but lots of money looking for a US home...thus real estate, which the Risk Assessment Model said couldn't go down more than a couple %. Add to that the (hundreds of?) billions of dollars of tax cuts Bush gave to the wealthiest people in the nation who already had more money than they knew what to do with. Third, to get out of this, the US needs a positive black swan to change all the rules again. This will soak up investment capitol, with a real return on investment, because wealth will be created. Until it comes, we're treading water. Or a negative black swan, pardon me for pointing out what might happen. The blackest of black swans. Doug ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Underwater mortgages and the economy (Dan Minette)
Keith wrote: Unfortunately I have no ideas about how to get this going, at least not in the US. I think a rule change favoring longer term investments in physical plant will be needed before anyone will consider any such ideas. It needs to be recognized as a matter of national security. Unfortunately, it seems like the right wing would rather see the country go down in flames than give Obama any kind of victory. Doug Sanity and/or Fear ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Down with the government
Dan Minette That's what makes the Tea Party so interesting. They are actually small government believers. I don't say I agree with them, I have strong differences with them, but their candidates do have a self-consistent message. I think most folks at their rallies don't think through their viewpoints. I have nothing but contempt for the tea party. For all appearances they are people with shrill voices and no real ideas and their leaders and candidates are consummate idiots. I suspect that a large percentage of them are people that, not having voted or having any particular interest in politics prior to, woke up on November 5, 2008 and were outraged when they found out that there was going to be a n***er in the white house. Well, they didn't do it in '08, and I'm still optimistic about this year. I'm not. Nate Silver's fivethirtyeight.com has been pretty good at analysis and they point to a Republican house and the Democratic lead in the Senate down to 52-48 as the average number. He was within 2 electoral votes last time, he was a sabermetrics guru and his posts have the feel of good technical analysis. It's the economy, stupid, and this is the worst rebound from a recession since the Great Depression. I think this is outside of either party's control; the best that can be done is to support something that will help over the next decade. BTW, I think that California has just seen the tip of the iceberg with regards to its problems. For example, why should someone build a new high tech enterprise in pricy San Jose instead of cheap Raleigh-Durham or Austin? California has put itself in a box and I'd expect housing prices to drop another factor of before it can start to rebound. Now, there's a topic we can debate. :-) Well I hope they don't move anymore businesses here because the freeways are more crowded than they have ever been. I wouldn't put money on prices going down much more. You can move a building to Detroit. Moving the talent and the silicon valley dynamic is another question. Doug ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Down with the government
Leftists should recognize the right has a valid argument about wasteful government spending. I would argue that the right (the one that was in power anyway) was the one doing all the wasteful spending. The idea that the right is fiscally conservative _in practice_ is a farce. I'm not saying that the left has it completely correct either, far from it, but if you vote for the GOP because you want to curb wasteful spending, you're barking up the wrong tree. They all are. Fox Noise and talk radio have the left whipped. Except for Jon Stewart, maybe. The Daily Show kicks ass. Progressives are maintaining parity on the internet blogs; not on the viral spams, though. I miss the lively conversations we used to have here. the right-wingnuts are much better are swaying the electorate, however. Well, they didn't do it in '08, and I'm still optimistic about this year. The way they're spinning it, unless the Republicans make huge gains, they will have underperformed. I think that there are signs that many people in the center of the political spectrum are concerned with giving a GOP that failed so miserably under Bush more power. If the dems losses are moderate, the Republican's just say no politics may be repudiated. Doug fingers crossed ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Down with the government!
Electronic forums are the ideal venue for brainstorming solutions for social issues, as you can take time to edit your comments. It also affords more people an opportunity to be less passive and have a voice. Moderated sites work best to stay on topic and maintain civilized discourse. As long as the moderator isn't a censor. Doug I(ttb)AMoaC ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Is anybody home?
Hello old friends, I'm still hangin' Anybody reading a good book? I'm struggling through Hamilton's book Pandora's Star and hoping that Bank's new one will be in Kindle form soon. Maybe I'll re-read Anathem Doug On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 5:16 PM, kananda...@aol.com wrote: Finishing up a 3 year stint as profess association president (if Zim is still doing this, he has a heart of gold) Healthcare changes, legislatures without money threatening cuts even to folks with catastrophic injuries such as brain injuries/strokes, and a bit of embezzlement. feed my brain with science... Counting down, just a few weeks til I get a bit more breathing room and hope to get a new list of good books to read. Start me a list please. Got 2 of the newer Bears to read, but need about a few good sundiver/uplift type things... might just have to reread them. Dee In a message dated 10/5/2010 8:55:06 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, char...@culturelist.org writes: On 05/10/2010, at 11:43 PM, Julia wrote: The list did NOT drop you. Not from enough altitude to hurt, anyway... I'm home, but will need to leave in less than 90 minutes to pick up a friend at the dentist. That's an odd place to pick up... Bars and art galleries more traditional, no? ;-) So how is everyone? I've just had an odd week of ups and downs - Sunday I got to ride 3 laps of the UCI world championship course on fully closed roads, which was fun. (And bloody steep - 22% hurts) But last night came down with migraine, so been hiding in a dark quiet place. Only just getting over it and still fuzzy. Bleugh. C. ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: First Pluto is not a planet, and now . . . .
On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 12:44 AM, Euan Ritchie e...@ritchie.net.nz wrote: They also believe... ...that some cosmic jewish zombie, who is his own father, can make you live forever if you symbolicawy eat his flesh and telepathically tell him that you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul, that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree. To quote a meme. Makes the FSM sound downright believable, no? Doug ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Tea Party Racism
Is the Tea Party fundamentally racist? Or is it just coincidental that it formed as a black man was taking office? For years, Republicans were in office busting the budget and passing bills like Medicare D which was completely unfunded and will cost us something like $72 B a year. Where was the outrage then? Doug ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Having kids makes some people fulfilled
I've got two grown kids (30 and 32) and two grandkids (5,3) and while there were moments of profound unhappiness and extreme distress during their upbringing, nothing in my life even comes close to the sense of fulfillment and accomplishment I get from having raised them. From the article: About twenty years ago, Tom Gilovich, a psychologist at Cornell, made a striking contribution to the field of psychology, showing that people are far more apt to regret things they haven’t done than things they have. In one instance, he followed up on the men and women from the Terman study, the famous collection of high-IQ students from California who were singled out in 1921 for a life of greatness. Not one told him of regretting having children, but ten told him they regretted not having a family. No regrets. Doug ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Archives
Jeroen wrote: Why do you ask, Doug? Planning on a second attempt at building a List Archive? No, just interested in reading some of the old threads. Doug ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Archives
Nick; are the archives accessed from the list page all that are available? Doug ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: On Listmail
Dan Minette wrote: Well, I'm just pointing out that the California wants to protect the whole coast but has been happy driving cars with gas refined near Houston from offshore GOM. Why is the GOM shoreline so much lower in value the California shoreline? And, if you stop offshore drilling, you are left with fields deep in their decline. If you exclude the Alaska Wildlife Refuge and offshore, you're down 75% in recoverable oil. Basically, we'll be importing 90% of our oil. Tax, conserve, find alternatives and leave the oil in the ground. Here and elsewhere. If only we'd listened to Jimmy Carter. In any case, thanks for the info in your earlier post about possible causes; interesting stuff. One thing; you can speculate about this being a black swan, but there's no real way to confirm that. Even if this kind of thing happens only a couple of times a century, that's way too often. Doug ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: A Link for Dan
My mistake. Posted on a fan page for Niel Stephenson. Stephenson has no facebook presence. Doug On Sat, May 1, 2010 at 7:20 PM, Doug Pensinger brig...@zo.com wrote: Posted to Facebook by Niel Stephenson http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comicsid=1868 Doug ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: On Listmail
Hi Dan, I'm glad to see you're still around and that you've escaped Houston. You wrote: Doug, as shocking and horrendous as the accident was, (the entire bottom casing was blown up miles by the gas pressure) I am no fan of NIMBY. If you want to stop drilling for oil, then California should stop using fossil fuels, not let others take all the risks for them. It's not really not NIMBY, it's not on my pristine coast. If the oil were in the Mojave or if they found more in the central valley,it would be different. You used to argue that off shore drilling was safe, an argument that, as you have noted, has quite literally been blown out of the water. Drilling in a protected shore would be no different than drilling in Yosemite or Yellowstone. If anything good is to come out of this disaster, its that we'll be taking a closer look at offshore drilling, and that nobody will even be suggesting that we rape the California coast for a few buckets of oil. Beyond that, you're right, we should stop using fossil fuels as quickly as is practicable. I favor large state and federal taxes on gas and oil to subsidize research and development on alternatives and the development of mass transit. Maybe in light of this debacle a few more people will see it my way. Doug Not in Anyone's Back Yard maru ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
A Link for Dan
Posted to Facebook by Niel Stephenson http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comicsid=1868 Doug ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: On Listmail
Alberto wrote: Yes and no. I seldom check my e-mails these days, and I spend most of my free internet time in wikis. Hey Alberto, how are you? I heard you had a little rainstorm down there a few weeks ago; what was it 21 inches? What wikis? Doug ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: On Listmail
Alberto wrote: I hate inches :-( Oops, sorry. Over 50 cm then? Doug Short for communist, I think 8^) ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Oil Rigs
So Dan,. are you still here? Do you still want to talk me into putting rigs off of Big Sur? Doug ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
On Listmail
Ahem. Hello? Anyone here? I'm kind of curious about what happened to the volume of mail in groups like Brin-L and the Culture list. I have an idea that at first, several years ago now, the emergence of blogging sucked a lot of people away from list mail. And now social networking sites have all but killed them. I could be wrong, I only belong to the two lists. There may be lists that are thriving, but I'm guessing that most of them have seen a serious decline in traffic. Its a shame really because I think that lists are a much better forum for the exchange of ideas than either personal blogs or Facebook type forums. Blogs seem far to solipsistic to me; Here's what I think, you can comment if you'd like but I can delete your comments or block you if I don't like what you say and what are you doing here anyway if you don't agree with me. I know that that's a generalization, but I think that in general, blogs discourage discussion and debate. Facebook is the only social network I frequent and while I think it's great and has its place, it's a terrible forum for any kind of serious political debate. For one thing, many of the people you know intimately are probably there, and if they are people you wouldn't want to debate at the dinner table (because you don't want to promote discord) then you probably don't want to get into it with them on Facebook either. And really, that's not what Facebook is for anyway, its more of a hey look at these pictures of my kids or hey isn't this a funny video or (for some) hey I just trimmed my toenails kind of place. Not that that has stopped me from expressing my opinion there now and then. 8^) In any case, poor old Brin-l seems to be as dead as a door nail, and I think that that's a shame. Is anyone out there? Doug ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: On Listmail
Bruce wrote: Facebook is a pretty terrible forum for almost anything serious. I've never seen a site that seems to discourage any kind of in depth discussion so effectively by design. The notes feature is the closest thing it has to an actual writing-based feature, and even that is hidden away from the main page out of sight and only quoted there in brief snippets. Not that that has stopped me from expressing my opinion there now and then. 8^) Nor has it stopped me. :D I've never even tried to use the notes thing, AFAIK. I just post something political and hope for the best. Doug ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: On Listmail
John wrote: I agree with most of what you say, but I just haven't felt like starting any discussions on this list recently. The two main things that I have previously been interested in discussing here are SF and politics. From my point of view, the current political situation in the US is a disaster and just too depressing to even think about. So I take it you're not behind Obama's Wall St. reforms... One interesting thing, apropos to the list, has been the prevalence of the term transparency. I'll bet DB gets a chubby every time he hears Obama use it. The thing that bothers me the most is that purveyors of propaganda (Fox) are so influential. As for science fiction, it seems to me that there has been little good science fiction coming out lately. If only David Brin would write a book about Tom Orley and the skiff, that would be fun to discuss here. I normally do not read much fantasy, but with the dearth of science fiction coming out I have been reading some fantasy novels. I recently finished The Desert Spear by Peter V. Brett. That is the sequel to The Warded Man (aka The Painted Man), which is the first book in the series. I'm really enjoying the series so far. Peter really knows how to build a fantasy world and tell a story. And the characters are great, Unfortunately, the next book is not due out until 2012. Maybe we've already had this discussion, but have you read Banks' Transition? I like history too, so I've been reading a history of the American Revolution and Hume's history of England. For pure pleasure (and because a complete works collection for my Kindle was dirt cheap) I recently re-read Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn. I also bought Dune as I haven't read that in probably 30 years, and a collection of Mil Blogs from the Sandbox http://gocomics.typepad.com/the_sandbox/ Doug ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
The Story of Stuff
Anyone else seen this? http://www.storyofstuff.com/ Doug ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Social solutions rather than engineering ones
Dave wrote: Trent has opined similarly in the past, with a tone that says that a significant human die-off is perfectly acceptable to him. On at least one occasion, I believe he was invited to go first. I am of neither the opinion that such a die-off is acceptable nor that he should be first in line. I haven't figured him out yet and it is possible that he is indecipherable, but I'm pretty sure that Trent's enigmatic posts aren't always what you think they might be. Doug ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Unsolvable and beyond compromise.
Trent wrote: Republicans would have to be suicidal idiots to play ball with Obama and the Democrats on health care reform. They all involve increased interference by the Federal Government in the health care market, which is a cultural no-no in America. (Leaving people uninsured is also a no-no. Basically, health care reform runs afoul deeply held contradictory cultural values. It is not a problem for which there is a satisfactory political compromise.) Hopefully their intransigence will backfire. Doug ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Br?n on global warming
Alberto wrote: Probably not, we are very stupid when it comes down to the math used in astrodynamics, chemistry or economy. Alberto Monteiro Or very sarcastic. Doug ___ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Platform for gathering memories?
On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 11:46 AM, Dave Land dml...@gmail.com wrote: On Jan 8, 2010, at 2:50 AM, Alberto Monteiro wrote: Wikipedia once began a project dedicated to the memories of the victims of 9/11, but latter the scope was changed to include the memories of everyone. I guess the project is still not active, after 6 years of useless discussions: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikipeople After a couple of weeks, when you get trolls marking the pages for deletion because our loved ones are not sufficiently notable? Dave Tragedy of the Commons Maru ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: The worst
Nick, I'm so sorry to hear of your loss. My condolences to you and your family. Doug ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Avatar
Ronn! wrote: Complete article: Op-Ed Columnist - Heaven and Nature - NYTimes.com - http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/21/opinion/21douthat1.html http://tinyurl.com/ye43c8x He concludes: Religion exists, in part, precisely because humans aren’t at home amid these cruel rhythms. We stand half inside the natural world and half outside it. We’re beasts with self-consciousness, predators with ethics, mortal creatures who yearn for immortality. This is an agonized position, and if there’s no escape upward — or no God to take on flesh and come among us, as the Christmas story has it — a deeply tragic one. Pantheism offers a different sort of solution: a downward exit, an abandonment of our tragic self-consciousness, a re-merger with the natural world our ancestors half-escaped millennia ago. But except as dust and ashes, Nature cannot take us back. I see it a bit differently. We stand half outside the natural world and half inside it because, in part, of religion. Intelligent humans found that they could use their intelligence to manipulate and control other humans including the more traditional leaders, those who used their strength and size to their advantage. The race began to select for intelligence and voila, here we are. And I further disagree that there is no escape upward. You survive; your DNA survives when you reproduce and further if you do a good job of parenting, your ideals are perpetuated. I don't know about pantheism, but I see a balance with nature as vital to our survival and perpetuation. We may conquer nature here on earth, we may even go on to conquer nature on numerous planets but we will never, ever have the wherewithal to conquer all of the natural universe. What always bugs me about religion is how it seems to excuse the rape and destruction of the natural world that they believe that their god gave to them as a precious gift. Imagine spending hours of your time and the depths of your soul to create something for someone and then seeing that person trash your creation with little regard for what went into it. So while I don't believe that there is any place where I can stick my pigtail into a magic tree and awaken gaia, I think we have much to learn from nature, I have a tremendous appreciation for the geological and biological creations nature has taken millions of years to construct, and I think it is tremendously important to take care of our environment for our own sake. Doug ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Avatar
I saw Avatar last night in the Imax/3D format. It was by far the most awesome audio/visual experience I've ever had. The story was fair to good, but the eye candy was spectacular. I wouldn't have thought I could get vertigo while sitting in a comfortable arm chair. Cool; see it and pay the extra for Imax. Doug ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: List of The 50 Best Inventions of 2009
Bruce Bostwick wrote: Not as tall an order as it might sound, using something like VASIMR which has an Isp of up to 5000 s. Once you get out of the atmosphere, a higher efficiency engine system can spread out the delta-V across a fairly large period of time, and with enough engines and enough energy (some of which, for part of the mission at least, can come from PV panels), I think it would be within reach to bring us a suitable size asteroid. How about the way they did it in Heart of the Comet? Doug ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Google Wave
So??? I tried signing up via their website but haven't heard anything. What's the scoop? Doug ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: The thread about the thread Re: DeLong on health insurance reform
Julia wrote: It's amazing what you find needs doing when you finally have all your kids in school for a full day for the first time ever. I might have most of it done by the time school gets out in early June! I've heard the same thing about retirement; my brother-in-law and his brother, both firefighters, retired this past year and both of them say they've never been busier. That's the kind of busy I need... Good to hear from you all that haven't posted much, maybe we can get a rip roaring discussion going. Anybody over hear read Banks' new one? Doug ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: The thread about the thread Re: DeLong on health insurance reform
Debbi wrote: Hey, guess who's posting from home for the first time? (I did have some serious help getting stuff hooked up, and I still hate this laptop's 'finger mouse.' -- hmm, hadn't thought of what that conjures up, but it's entirely apt...) Congrats on the new job, and on getting your own rig. I'm sure you're not going to miss having to go to the library all the time. I would suggest a usb mouse. You don't want to know what I call those things. Doug ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Cool Map
50 years of space exploration http://books.nationalgeographic.com/map/map-day/index Doug ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Google Wave
Looks cool, count me in please. Use brig...@zo.com Thanks, Doug On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 2:07 PM, Wayne Eddy we...@bigpond.net.au wrote: Hi all, I just got access to Google Wave, and I was wondering if there was anyone on the list who might be interested in helping my try it out by joining a discussion about the future? Regards, Wayne Eddy ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: What's to read?
Pat wrote: I have a Sony 505. The books on my reader are on my reader and on my desktop, not on my account on someone else's server. If anyone wants to delete them [think 1984] or whatever, they have to physically steal my reader and then delete the book. I own them outright. Nobody else has any rights in the copies I own except, in this state, if I had a legally married spouse. (Community property state). No one gonna take my 505 away That's nice, but if I was a best selling author I think I'd be pretty reluctant to sell my book that way for fear that someone would make copies and give them away a la mp3 file sharing. And unlike musicians, authors aren't likely to make a lot of money on tour so once their book is being distributed for free, they're SOL. Other than the ownership factor, how do you like your reader so far? Doug ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: What's to read?
John wrote: But hopefully none of that is necessary in the future. I just want to see the book selection increase. It still boggles my mind why so few books released before the Kindle, but in the last 30 years or so, have come out in Kindle or other e-book formats. Someone must have a digital copy of the book text somewhere, and it is trivial to convert it to the Kindle or ebook formats. It seems like free money for someone. By the way, have you investigated how the book selection compares for Kindle vs. your Sony 505? Particularly with science fiction titles? I'm still waiting for Brin to release the various Startide books on Kindle. I think the reason you're still waiting for Brin's books is also the answer to you're question about the number of titles available. They're probably negotiating with a lot of authors for the rights or dealing with copyright issues. After the 1984 debacle I'm sure they're being very careful about what they make available. In the meanwhile there's a lot of stuff already available that I want to read, so I'm not to worried about it yet. Also, you've probably noticed that you can prompt publishers to release their titles from the Amazon page. On the left hand side of the page theres a little dialog box entitled Tell the Publisher etc. Here's one you all can help me out on 8^) http://www.amazon.com/Consider-Phlebas-Iain-M-Banks/dp/031600538X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8s=booksqid=1253600088sr=8-1 Doug ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Wife's suggestion!
Dave wrote: Amen, brother! I think that the harsh immune response from some quarters to the merest mention of religion is a symptom of our general inability to be generous, kind, civil, open and _listening_. Yes but, calling the U.S. a Christian nation is a little beyond the merest mention. That said, I agree with the tenor of the message forwarded by Chris. I've been disturbed enough by the hate speech from the right; Beck, Limbaugh et al, that I've considered taking some sort of action to express my displeasure. This is the only constructive thing I've found so far: http://colorofchange.org/ If anyone knows of any similar campaigns I'd be interested in checking them out. Doug ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
What's to read?
I just finished reading a bio of the Sun King, Louis XIV of France. I was inspired to read it after having read The Three Musketeers which actually took place during the reign of 14's father (maybe) Louis XIII and by Stephenson's Baroque Cycle which I actually finished a few years ago. TTM was a surprisingly good read. I didn't understand (maybe detect is a better word) the humor at first. I practically gave up on the book when the musketeers proved to be such bumbling idiots that they almost got themselves and d'Artagnan caught and killed, but once I understood that the character flaws of these most contemptible heroes was actually a large part of the story I began to enjoy the book. The bio was somewhat cursory, but that's what I was looking for anyway (and what should I expect for a dollar?) Louis XIV was an interesting character and held the throne for 72 years; longer than any other European monarch. That he was a despot, a war monger and genocidal (see the Revocation of the Edict of Nantes) was offset by his centralization of power in France, the sophistication and innovation of his court. Interesting stuff. Next is a History of England by Scottish philosopher David Hume and Bank's new non-culture S.F. novel, Transition. What has everyone else been reading? BTW, I can't recommend the Kindle enough. The interface is great, the wireless feature gives you access to all sorts of stuff much of which is free or very reasonably priced, you can download magazines, newspapers and blogs and you can even send personal documents to it via email for a small fee (I paid 15 cents for a 10 or 12 page document). It has a built in dictionary; just move the cursor in front of the word you want defined and the definition appears at the bottom of the screen. You can annotate text and there's a search function and you can change the font size. I bought a flip-over cover (not the one sold by Amazon) that allows me to set the reader down and read hands free. It's much easier to read than a regular book - especially a hardback. The $300 price tag was a bit steep. I wasn't sure I wanted one, especially at that price, but I'm very happy with it now. Doug ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: The thread about the thread Re: DeLong on health insurance reform
Ray wrote: The change of seasons is not as obvious here as it seemed to be in the States as we toured around last year. We don't go from ridiculous negative temperatures to extreme heat as for example in Colorado. It's gradually getting warmer now (the low 20s C) and it looks like we might be expecting another horror bushfire season. Melbourne's dams are still below 30% full after 12 years of drought. We're having a bit of a drought here in California as well, but nothing like what you're experiencing. Of course we experience nasty wildfires every year too. Um, I'd like my health care to be unnecessary! If only... If you mean do I like Australia's system?, then overall, I'd say yes. There is universal health coverage under the government mandated Medicare system, and as well as that, many people also to take out private health cover (which is subsidised by a 30% gov contribution). I won't go into detail here, but I encourage those on both sides of the debate to perhaps check out: http://www.health.gov.au/internet/main/publishing.nsf/Content/healthsystem-overview-1-Introduction or http://tinyurl.com/qppnmu This seems like a very reasonable system. Its obvious that there _must_ be some large degree of subsidy by the government because insurance companies can't make money insuring low and no income people. Being a government site, it perhaps paints too rosy a picture, but it does give the outline of the system. From discussions with many people during our US trip last year, it was amazing to us what a worry it was to US citizens about how to pay for their health care. Some of the premiums discussed were to our ears, unbelievable. Relying so much on employer-sponsored health benefits seems to me a strange system. The employed surely are far more able to pay for their own health coverage than the unemployed. Here in Australia, at least everyone is entitled to basic care, usually with little copayment required. It obviously does help if you can afford to take out private health insurance was well, as it increases the range of choices you have for treatment. The system here is a mess, a complicated mess. I agree that employee sponsored care is not the best approach, but how do you change it? The reform measures they're working on now are a strange amalgamation of public and private systems, but hopefully it will eventually lead to a system similar to yours. Doug ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: DeLong on health insurance reform
John Williams wrote: Actually, the source of the article is the author, James V. DeLong. The publisher is The American, and the owner of the publisher is the American Enterprise Institute. The latter being one of the driving forces behind the failed conservative revolution and the miserable failure that was the W. Bush administration. DeLong's resume is impressive, but the fact that his article appears in the AEI rag is a strike against it. If you want to figure out how expensive health care should be, looking at other systems around the world should at least give a ballpark idea as to what we should be paying. In what sense should be? I don't see why I should choose something just because someone else has. I should be able to make my own choices as to what benefits me the most. Which is one of the points DeLong was making: It's not just because someone else has it, it's because it works and it doesn't cost nearly as much. Looking at other country's health insurance is like comparison shopping; there are dozens of them that do as well or better than we do on overall quality while paying a good deal less than we do. One way to accomplish this is for American companies who develop useful new techniques to profit by selling related goods or services throughout the world. Personally, I think that a system that places an emphasis on boner drugs, reformulation of proven drugs and anti-depressants that don't work is in need of an overhaul in and of itself. I don't have a problem with any of those drugs being sold to people who want to buy them. Just because I don't want to buy them (at the moment), does not mean that others should be unable to buy them. We should all have the choice to buy any of those drugs, and as many more as people can think up. Diversity is good. I don't have a problem with the drugs, I have a problem with the priorities. Big pharma concentrates on those drugs that can make them the most money rather than those that are deemed most necessary. Sometimes those interests coincide, many times they do not. It's a glaring flaw in the free market system. Finally, if the proposed reforms are really what we need to fix the system, why weren't they implemented when they had the ear of the president and a cooperative congress? Who is they? They referred to the proposed reforms and what I meant was that AEI and the rest of the neocons and the Bush administration had ample opportunity to address these problems when their guy and their congress was in power. As for JVD's one paragraph proposal of reforms it didn't even begin to address some of the most glaring problems such as how to cover the 50 million people that have no coverage. His proposals are vague and generally not very helpful. Take the first one; a phaseout of employment-based health insurance in favor of other policies Great, phase 'em out. I agree with that and said as much in a different post, but how do we phase them out? What other policies will we employ?The high deductible thing is just dumb. If people have high deductibles they will avoid being seen and what ever is wrong with them will probably get worse and cost more to treat. Instead, they should lower rates if a person gets regular checkups and encourage them to come in in cases where early treatment could prevent complications. In any case, I was less than impressed with the article. Doug ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: From CNN: Democratic leaders in Congress soften on public option
John Williams wrote: [1] I know that reformers claim the government option would not be subsidized, but I find that extremely hard to believe. I'm afraid it would end up sucking down taxpayer money quite soon. Who's paying for the uninsured right now? Are we just telling them they are SOL and sending them home? Doug ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: The thread about the thread Re: DeLong on health insurance reform
Ray wrote: I fail to see what difference it makes how often I am involved. Surely this should be the case with or without my participation! Hi Ray, glad to see you're still hanging out. Are you ready for spring, or does it make that much of a difference? I know you were kidding, but as far as how often you're involved, I think it makes a big difference. The list is a better place when we get opinions from a myriad of sources and a myriad of opinions IMO. Anybody who was on the list before 6/00 knows what an interesting, vibrant community it was and what made it most interesting to me was the diversity. So how do you like your health care? Doug ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: From CNN: Democratic leaders in Congress soften on public option
Ronn! wrote: God bless America, Land that I love! Stand beside her, and guide her Thru the night with a light from above. Or, as someone I know once sang it, from a bulb Doug ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: DeLong on health insurance reform
John Williams wrote: They changed the link. Here is the new one: http://american.com/archive/2009/august/maybe-we-should-spend-more-on-healthcare Yikes. Let's first look at the source of the article, The American Enterprise Institute. Described in Wiki as some of the leading architects of the second Bush administration's public policy. Now there's an endorsement! Second except for the determination that health care currently isn't the same as it used to be (duh) the article itself is all spin. If you want to figure out how expensive health care should be, looking at other systems around the world should at least give a ballpark idea as to what we should be paying. And if we're doing the lions share of the innovation when it comes to medical research, then maybe we need to figure out how to get the rest of the world that benefits just as much as we do (if not more) rather than sticking with the current formula. Personally, I think that a system that places an emphasis on boner drugs, reformulation of proven drugs and anti-depressants that don't work is in need of an overhaul in and of itself. Finally, if the proposed reforms are really what we need to fix the system, why weren't they implemented when they had the ear of the president and a cooperative congress? All we got was an abortion of a drug bill. You'd have to be _on drugs_ to be listening seriously to anything these guys are saying. Doug ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: DeLong on health insurance reform
On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 8:23 AM, John Williamsjwilliams4...@gmail.com wrote: DeLong (the other one) on health care costs and health insurance reform. http://american.com/archive/2009/maybe-we-should-spend-more-on-healthcare | So what should be done about healthcare costs? Many things, including | a phaseout of employment-based health insurance in favor of other | policies; elimination of mandates that require insurance coverage | of designated procedures; availability of programs that combine | health savings accounts with catastrophe insurance; availability of | policies across state lines; reform of the tort system; reform of cost | accounting procedures that create dysfunctional incentives for industry | participants; availability of high deductibles so that insurance can be | insurance rather than socialized medicine; a second look at our policy | of forcing the young to subsidize the geezers, who are after all the | wealthiest segment of the population, and who can afford to spend more | on healthcare because other demands on their income are less. | It is a long list. Take care of these reforms and total spending | will take care of itself. Spending may become higher or lower—who | knows?—but it will better represent a reasonable assessment of value | for money. These reforms will also forestall the most worrisome aspect | of the current “spend too much” panic: the urge to cut costs at the | expense of the future. The link was broken for me, but from what you quoted above it seems we'd all need 2 or three insurance policies, a medical account and state and federal income tax deductions. And since insurance companies are worried about making money for themselves, not the health of their customers, you can bet we'll probably need a lawyer to keep them honest. Then we'll need an accountant to help keep track of it all. Why would we do all that crap when we can jealously look at other countries and say Damn, why don't we do something like that. It costs less and it works better??? Doug ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Ben Bernanke, fearless leader
John Williams wrote: Can some complex systems be analyzed by comparison to a more simple system? Sure, there are plenty of examples, although most of them are in the physical sciences rather than the social sciences. Asimov's psychohistory made a great story, but it does not work in practice. There are precious little useful predictions coming out of economics. Do you mean predictions in the historical sense? Doug Kidding, just kidding... ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Ben Bernanke, fearless leader
John Williams wrote: So now you implicitly claim not only to be able to predict what would happen if the government did not intervene immediately after the various investment bank problems, but also what would have happened many months after that under the influence of unknown intervention efforts. Since distinguished economists have repeatedly failed to predict much simpler things on shorter time scales, I find your claim highly dubious. You probably know this, but a prediction is knowing something before it happens, not extrapolating what would have happened after the fact. In a baseball game, if an error is made on a play that would have ended an inning and a number of runs are scored afterwards, its not much of a stretch to say that if the error had not occurred, the runs wouldn't have scored. It is certainly not a prediction. Doug ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Ben Bernanke, fearless leader
John Williams wrote: Taking a complicated situation and equating it to a simple one, and then assuming that what holds for the simple situation holds for the complex one, is likely to lead to incorrect information, flawed decisions, and overconfidence in one's ability to predict the evolution of the complicated situation. Is the complicated situation the misuse of the word predict? That's what the analogy was intended to illustrate. Beyond that, an analogy is intended to be a simplified version of the subject in order that the reader better understand what the writer is trying to convey. Thus if I say The building is shaped like an inverted cone. the reader gets an immediate picture of what I am trying to convey. I'm not trying to say that the cone is the same as the building, only that they have similarities in shape. Doug ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Posted in a workcube
rob wrote: I will not brew Decaf. Decaf is the mind-killer. Decaf brings the little sleep that leads to total oblivion. I will embrace my caffeine. I will brew my beverages and let them... flow through me, and when they are gone, I will remain...alert wtf are you doing in a workcube on a Sunday evening??? Where are your priorities, man? Doug vacuum, mow the lawn, build a step, walk the dog, move furniture, cook dinner and empty the trash maru ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Ben Bernanke, fearless leader
Dan wrote: I origionally just hit reply to while multitaking and the returned it just to John. I'm sorry that it didn't go to the list, but I'm using my portable which does not have my main sorter. BTW, the below is not intended as a flame, but an accurate statement of what the posts indicate to me. I have never ever heard anyone who I know had sucessfully adressed very complex issues say or write what John writes about complex issues. It is possible that I have read such a disbelief in Murphy's laws in the last 15 or so years on line, but I don't recall. You are very very quite about yourself, but your posts indicate someone who has never had to properly simplify a complex situation in order to succeed. I don't think I've corresponded with anyone who writes as though they believe that Murphy's laws never apply to complex systems, and that humans can do nothing but make things worse. Your posts make the antagoist of Earth a look protechnical. :-) It's funny that some of his posts have brin-l as the main return and some don't. Finally, I'm sorry if folks, like John, are offended that I spare time writing to this list in between real work. I'm offended that you don't proof your posts! Quite for quiet (I think), antigoist for antagonist (I think) and spare for spend (I think). I guess I should just be happy that you didn't truncate half a paragraph!! I kid you, I'm not offended in the least. And I know what you meant. 8^) Doug ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Ben Bernanke, fearless leader
John Williams wrote: In which case, the analogy is useless for drawing conclusions, unless you first list every similarity and difference to the actual situation. In which case, why not discuss the actual situation instead of absurd burning building or sports analogies? As for meaning of the word predict, I'm not interested in a discussion. How ironic is it that someone who claims to be such a libertarian is so adamant about restricting my rhetorical style! Its kind of like a prostitute lecturing people about chastity. Oops, there I go again... Doug ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Posted in a workcube
Julia wrote: Reply: You can get that on a t-shirt. I gave such a t-shirt to my brother-in-law. (His caffeine addiction is legendary. In fact, the first time I met him, the biggest impression he made on me was with the concoction he was using to stay awake for an all-nighter -- double-strength coffee with some instant thrown in for good measure, with 2 or 3 teabags soaking in the mess, in an insulated mug that was at least 20 oz., might have been more like 32, even. And the caffeine addiction was mentioned by a number of people who stood up to say things about him and my sister at their wedding reception.) oh. Now you see I thought he made that up and was posting it from a workcube. I even thought about spending some time on a poetic reply (too lazy). Silly me. Doug ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Ben Bernanke, fearless leader
John Williams wrote: On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 7:53 PM, Doug Pensingerbrig...@zo.com wrote: How ironic is it that someone who claims to be such a libertarian is so adamant about restricting my rhetorical style! When did I claim to be a libertarian? Perhaps you did not, I apologize if I mis-characterized you but you certainly espouse their ideals. And why exactly am I obligated to discuss something with you that I do not want to? You are most definitely not obligated to talk about anything at all. I was talking about your bitching about my use of analogy. Doug ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Ben Bernanke, fearless leader
John wrote: I think I understood your point. Mine was that economists are not really experts in any useful knowledge. They cannot predict the course of the economy any better than non-economists. Also, I dispute your claim that the vast majority of economist are in favor of throwing money at the situation. Here are hundreds of economists who disagree with that approach: Apparently you not only misunderstand my point, you've lost track of the argument. I said the vast majority of economists said that there was a huge problem I'm pretty sure there was nothing in there about throwing money at the problem. Doug ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Ben Bernanke, fearless leader
John wrote: And? Is there more to what you are saying? In your initial post in this thread, particularly in the last paragraph, you seemed to be belittling the idea that we are in the midst of a major economic crisis. That's what I was responding to. Perhaps I was mistaken. In any case, I would agree that while most economists probably felt that some type of bailout was advisable, saying that the vast majority of them did would be an overstatement. Doug ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Ben Bernanke, fearless leader
John wrote: So, it was a one-two punch. Make the situation sound unimaginably bad, and then persuade people that he saved them from disaster. Or you could make it sound like the situation was overblown and convince people that they were just trying to make heroes of themselves. I find it extremely difficult to believe that his primary motivation in all this is to make himself look good. Doug ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: What are Bill Maher's beliefs?
Charlie wrote: Yes - it's the simple principle that not everyone is rational about everything in their lives. In Maher's case, he has a mammoth blind spot on biomedical science. I don't think it's irredemable in his case. Did anyone see the show last night? He interviewed Jay-Z and Bill Moyers. Moyers was very eloquent on health care. Here are some quotes: http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/08/29/moyers/index.html Doug ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Ben Bernanke, fearless leader
John wrote: The point is, because of his actions, we do not know and cannot know. Considering the vast amounts of other people's money that he has spent and the great moral hazard that he has created, the responsible thing to have done would have been to have carefully studied the situation, looking at what would actually happen, while simultaneously preparing contingency plans it case intervention was deemed necessary after careful study. I have to go back to the burning building analogy. If you sit there and study the situation for a while, in all likelihood the window of opportunity to actually prevent the disaster will pass before you determine what it is you think might work. In any case, since you have no faith in economists, who would you have study the situation? Doug ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Ben Bernanke, fearless leader
John wrote: I wrote: I have to go back to the burning building analogy. Which, as I already explained, is a useless analogy and not worth further comment. Because it renders your whole speculative argument moot? Your so called explanation was: It would also be silly to think the US economy is even in the same ballpark of being understood as a burning building. So we are to assume on your say so that economic emergencies do not exist? In any case, since you have no faith in economists, who would you have study the situation? Everyone who wishes to. Now there is a useless answer. How is this everyone who wishes to supposed to do anything about the situation if and when they figure out what to do? Are they a committee? The Everyone Who Wishes To committee? Would we give them a commission and an annual budget? Yikes. Doug ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Ben Bernanke, fearless leader
John wrote: You seem to be worried about damage that might have happened if the government had not intervened without allowing enough time for the situation to play out and be well understood. I do not deny that it is possible that there could be some cost from not intervening swiftly. But my point is that we do not know what that cost is, because it was never observed, and predictions of economists in these sorts of situations are unreliable. In contrast, we know very well the vast costs of the government intervention. Many hundreds of billions of dollars spent, trillions of dollars pledged, and a huge moral hazard that will make such problems more likely to occur in the future. So we have a vast cost, and we have no idea what the benefits were that were bought with that cost. I, for one, demand more proof that my money is being used wisely. I think it's disingenuous to say that we had no idea what would have happened. Many more banks would have failed, and the stock market would have crashed much harder than it did. And we do have a precedent for that kind of hard crash in the great depression. I don't really care if banks or even car companys fail if the damage was limited to those institutions, but the people that are really going to suffer are those that loose their 401K or other retirement savings, or their house, or their job or all of it. As it is there was a huge amount of damage done to these people's future. Had they allowed these institutions to fail, I'm absolutely certain that the economic situation would be far worse. The thing is, I think that at some point it becomes a crisis of confidence more than a purely economic crisis and once you reach that point I think you can count on a prolonged depression. I'm not absolutely sure that we aren't beyond the tipping point now. So while I'm not sure that the initial bailout and the follow up stimulus package were the perfect solutions, I'm pretty confident that had we waited for the Everyone Who Wishes To committee to come back with their well crafted solution, it would have been far too late to be effective. Doug ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Ben Bernanke, fearless leader
Rob wrote: Is anyone else seeing medical related construction on this scale in their area? Not here. They've actually closed a few hospitals around here even though the population continues to increase. I guess Kaiser has built a few hospitals, but nothing on the scale you're talking about. Doug ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Ben Bernanke, fearless leader
John Williams wrote: Maybe (I don't think so, but no matter). More importantly, I think the thread of thought has been lost here. The point is, would non-fireman do that if the firemen decided to wait and observe, as Doug suggested? My point was that we look to our experts in a crisis. If our experts lay out a course of action for us and we demure, its on our heads weather it be a burnt building or a burnt economy. You'e stated that the vast majority of economists do no better than average at investing. First, can you substantiate that statement? Second, what does that really have to do with the financial crisis? John wrote earlier: Each to his own. OK, I pick Warren Buffet, second richest man in the world who termed the present crisis as an economic pearl harbor. Doug OK, how about Doug ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Ben Bernanke, fearless leader
On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 7:52 PM, John Williamsjwilliams4...@gmail.com wrote: If he predicts a recovery every year, he may get lucky and be right sometime! Well, if he didn't permanently injure his hand patting himself on the back in his speech last Friday...Hey, look at me, I prevented another Great Depression! Reminds me of television's _Lost_ -- entering the numbers into the computer, you can always say you were preventing the destruction of the world by your actions, as long as you scare people enough about what could happen that they don't ask for credible proof that it actually would happen without your actions. If he was the only one saying that there was a problem you might have a point, but as the vast majority of economists said that there was a huge problem, it just sounds like sour grapes. Doug ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Ben Bernanke, fearless leader
John Williams wrote: Economists are no better at predicting the future than anyone else. How many economists do you know that got rich investing? The vast majority of economists do no better than average at investing. Of course economists like to persuade others that they can predict the future better than non-economists, and then to claim that they can fix things when they go wrong. That makes them look good, feel good, like they are vitally needed and are helping people. More importantly, they get more prestigious jobs by persuading others that they have the magic touch. Who would you have us listen to then? If economists were so capable of making things better, then the reasonable and scientific thing to do would have been to not act immediately, to observe scientifically, to see if things were really going as bad as some claimed. If they had done that, then there would be evidence whether their predictions of doom were true, and then the politicians and economists could spring into action and fix things. The problem is, if they did that, people would realize that economists' predictions are no better than a coin-flip. Why risk their reputation on that? Maybe firefighters, upon arriving at a structure fire should observe scientifically to see if things were really burning as quickly as they seemed. Then again, maybe not. Doug ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: The Role of Government in a Libertarian Free Market
Richard wrote: A few people have been removed, a couple of them long term listees and one was a moderator here. We definitely are not queasy when it comes to pulling the pin. I'm definitely queasy about it, but I guess I'm not part of we. I'm queasy as well. To my knowledge the only people kicked off of the list by the moderators had threatened violence against other list members. At the risk of pissing people that I've known and respected for some time, I'd like to say that I really don't think that JW has been very offensive and the debate he has spurred has often been interesting and informative. You all _know_ I don't agree with most of what he has to say, but I think he has every right to express himself as long as he behaves in a relatively civilized manner. Has he been arrogant at times? Maybe, but that sort of thing is difficult to judge via email. One can often sound arrogant or diffident or whiny and not really mean to. But if arrogance was the criteria by which we judged people for their on list fitness, how long would JDG have lasted? And as much as I disagreed vehemently with that other John, I miss not having him here to spar with. Please, lets get back to the health care debate and quit with the personal stuff. Doug ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: The Role of Government in a Libertarian Free Market
Jim wrote: The passive-agressive posts, though? I don't mind admitting that kind of stuff gets under my skin. Jim Admitting weakness maru Now see, I guess I don't understand what passive-aggressive means because I would think that his confrontational, sometimes sarcastic style has any passivity to it. Wiki describes P-A as passive sometimes obstructionist resistance to following through with expectations in interpersonal or occupational situations and says It can manifest itself as learned helplessness, procrastination, stubbornness, resentment, sullenness or deliberate/repeated failure to accomplish requested tasks for which one is (often explicitly) responsible. I'm not sure how that (or anything else in the article) applies. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive–aggressive_behaviorhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive%E2%80%93aggressive_behavior BTW, apologies to JW for this behind-the-back-in-front-of-your-face discussion. (Is that P-A?) Doug ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Passive-Agressive posting (was Re: The Role of Government in a Libertarian Free Market)
Rob wrote: Bruce wrote: (Type mismatch error: expected boolean value but found string 'cake'. Input not parsed.) The cake is a lie? Apparently the cake is neither true nor false. Doug ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: The Role of Government in a Libertarian Free Market
On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 11:36 AM, John Williams jwilliams4...@gmail.comwrote: It is interesting what some people find rude which does not seem rude to others. I suspect that a neutral observer would look at my posts during the last few weeks and judge that they are not at all rude. I have been asking some uncomfortable questions, but not making any obviously rude remarks. The interesting thing is that the data do not support the claim that my posts make people less likely to communicate here. Rather, just the opposite. If you look at the volume of non-JW posts as a function of JW-posts to this list, there is a remarkably large positive correlation. Anyone listen to Bill Maher? I disagree with a lot of what he says, but he is entertaining. He speaks his mind, and is not afraid to discuss uncomfortable issues. I have never found him rude, but I suspect others may have a different opinion. To each his own. Here's an example of an uncomfortable issue that he discusses: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bill-maher/new-rule-smart-president_b_253996.html He can be a little rude at times, but I watch him every week and probably agree with him more often than you. On the Americans are stupid issue, I would agree somewhat, but I would use the terms ignorant and/or intellectualy lazy rather than stupid. Have you seen Religulous? Doug ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Brin-:L the 2nd decade
Trent Shipley wrote: We know each other and know each other's positions. What about those of us who try not to have positions? Don't worry Trent, you are as ambiguous as ever. 8^) Doug ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: The Role of Government in a Libertarian Free Market
Dan wrote: One thing to remember about experimentation: 99.99% of experiments fail; What's the criteria for success? An experimental form of governance (or some aspect of governance) may not yield a completely successful law or system of laws, but I'm relatively certain that important knowledge can be gleaned from any well designed experiment forming the basis for further experimentation and eventually a more successful law or system. they do not achieve the goals they set out to achieve. In physics, theorists have come up with tens if not hundreds of thousands of wrong theories. Shelly Glashow, who I mentioned, said he came up with 5 new theories per day. Only one of his really paid off...and it paid off big. Most experiments in physics don’t find the new and exciting thing they are looking for; they just find that the 2 sigma signal they spent 2 years getting more data on disappear. I'm not sure physics experiments where there is generally one right answer and thousands of wrong ones are comparable to social experiments where there is seldom one correct answer and often many acceptable solutions to a problem. Furthermore, a correct answer in physics will remain correct whereas a social system is always fluctuating not only from year to year but from one location to the next. Economic studies have shown that, for average entrepreneurs, the business ends up failing and costing money. We are fortunate that we have these folks, because every once in a while they come up with something that _really_ benefits everyone. But, even averaging the winners in, the average person taking a risk on a new business loses money. Am I wrong in guessing that very few new businesses are experimental Finally, we do have experimentation in government. California and Texas have very different governments; and very different sets of problems. California is wining the race down to failure, it seems.because Texas doesn't have much of a housing problem and is not about to go bankrupt. I don't think that this is an experiment in any useful sense of the word. You may argue that these are minimalistic changes; and they are. I would argue that they are apples and oranges. Doug ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: The Role of Government in a Libertarian Free Market
Charlie wrote: I do occasionally blow up. Once when I was accused of racism, once when a private discussion I'd had with someone was forwarded to the list, and ISTR Nick and I talking completely at cross-purposes. I was really annoyed on Friday night, partly 'cause I'd got home after drinking with a couple of friends in the pub, and an acquaintance of one of them was spouting anti-vaccination lunacy. And when I asked a couple of simple questions, I received the reply Oh, so you're science. That figures. There's no arguing with simpletons like that. And we seem to have more nut cases than ever before. Birthers??? Ay Yi Yi. Doug ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Kindle's Orwellian moment continues . . .
Ronn! wrote: Inevitable . . . http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/technology/2009/07/highlights-from-the-1984-lawsuit-against-amazon.html or http://tinyurl.com/nlthah More on this including an apology from Amazon's CEO: http://www.betanews.com/article/Bezos-says-Kindle-1984-deletions-were-stupid-doesnt-say-how-Amazon-will-solve-illegal-book-problem/1248388364 ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Torchwood: Children of Earth
On John Williams wrote: Better Off Ted is the best new comedy I've seen in a long time. I particularly enjoy the Veridian Dynamics commercials. My favorite episode was the one where they installed new sensors for detecting if people were in the room, and they could not detect black people, so they had to hire minimum-wage white guys to follow the black guys around the building. Just watched it. Hilarious! Thanks... Doug ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
The Poop on the Kindle
So who has a Kindle (I know someone mentioned them before), how do you like it and what do you read on it? I just got one today and am attempting to download the NY Times (free 14 day trial) right now. It seems like it's taking a long time... Doug ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: The Poop on the Kindle
John wrote: I have a Kindle DX. I'm pleased with the display size and contrast. I am less than pleased at the navigation, which is klunky, but I knew that before I bought it. I don't read any newspapers on it, since I tend to get my news from the web with a computer. I read mostly fiction on it. My library of paper books takes up a lot of space, and I wanted to reduce its size, or at least stop its growth. Unfortunately, few of the science fiction books in my library are available in Kindle format, less than 1 in 5. Fortunately, most new releases come out in Kindle now, but often delayed some time after the hard cover is released. I'm not sure why your download is taking a long time, unless it is a problem with the NYT system. When I download books over the cell network (Whispernet), it generally only takes a few seconds, never more than a minute. My Kindle is able to get a 3G connection with 4 or 5 bars in my home. Does yours have a similar signal? They talked about the whispernet in the instructions I've read so far, but I didn't realize exactly what it was. Before I got the thing I assumed that downloading was via the computer/net. Silly me. I just downloaded a book and it seemed to load pretty quickly. Is there any free content? The instructions said there was some sort of pdf translation software but implied that it wasn't free and that it didn't always work right. It also said something about being able to load your own documents. Doug RTFM maru ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
path-dependence
JDG posted this article on Facebook, very apropos to our discussion. http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/01/26/090126fa_fact_gawande?currentPage=all http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/01/26/090126fa_fact_gawande?currentPage=all Doug ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Why not discuss the topic?
On Sat, Jul 18, 2009 at 1:09 AM, John Williams jwilliams4...@gmail.comwrote: On Sat, Jul 18, 2009 at 12:44 AM, Doug Pensingerbrig...@zo.com wrote: If regulations and restrictions have such a detrimental effect then why do other, more restrictive nations have much more efficient and effective health care systems? That is a complicated subject, and I do not believe I claimed that there is a large detrimental effect on costs, but in the spirit of your one sentence question, I will give a once sentence reply: Many apologies for being able to make my point without being long winded. Many countries ration health care more than the US, thus restricting their people to less health care than people in the US, and by not allowing people to choose low- effectiveness care paid for by other people, they reduce overall spending without significantly reducing certain metrics of effectiveness (NOT including customer satisfaction, though) Ha, you sound like a politician John. But how much less health care can there be in these universal systems considering some 16% of our country isn't covered at all? And are you saying that customer satisfaction is better in the U.S. because I'd have to call you on that one too. Doug ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Why not discuss the topic?
John wrote: Limiting myself to the US, and just listing a few incidents that come to mind: Indian Removal Act Legal slavery Jim Crow laws Coverture Japanese American internment Joseph McCarthy Richard Nixon Are we waiting for historical perspective to add Bush/Cheney to that list? Doug ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: WeChooseTheMoon
John wrote: I think I see a communication problem here. You talk of the free market as if it were a thing, like a replicator on Star Trek that provides food. When I talk of a free market, I mean the state of not restricting or coercing people in their choices to freely interact with each other. Freedom to choose as one wishes without being told what to do by others. No, there is no communication problem. In its most basic definition, a free market is a market that is free from government intervention. What has become painfully obvious in recent years is that as the market frees itself from governemental constraints, those in a position to manipulate it for their own benefit do so without regard for the greater good. In the case of health care, we have the free marketeers lobbying against any kind of government alternative to private insurance, but offering no substantial improvement over the status quo. The private health care companies wish to continue to 1. not insure anyone that can not pay their hefty premiums and co-pays 2.Pay as little as possible for people that _are_ insured and get sick 3. get the government to pay for as much of their costs as they can get away with and 4. make as much money as possible. The result being the f**ked up system we have today wherein we pay by far the most per capita and don't get the best care and don't even cover a huge segment of the population. So, to explore your question, there are non-coercive institutions that provide services and do not make a profit. They are usually called, aptly enough, non-profit corporations, or charities. People freely choose to support certain institutions which, in their judgment, provide a vital benefit to society. If non-profits and charities are such wonderful solutions, why do we still have such a massive problem? To get back on topic, if Americans had not been forced to pay to land people on the moon (or something else) but had instead decided where to spend their money themselves, undoubtedly some fraction of the spending would have gone to various charitable causes. If landing people on the moon were important enough to enough people, it could have been done by a non-profit (or profit) organization or organizations. But I think the fact is that landing people on the moon is not important enough to enough people. It mostly just appeals to a small number of special interests and looks good on a politicians record. Your pretext; that we were forced to pay for the Apollo program is fallacious. We elected the leaders that conceived of the program and re-elected the leaders that pledged to continue it. I have little doubt that if you polled the world about man's greatest achievements, the Apollo program would rank at or near the top of the survey. If you asked the people of this country today if Apollo was worth the money, well, here's the poll: [ http://www.gallup.com/poll/121736/Majority-Americans-Say-Space-Program-Costs-Justified.aspx ] I laud charitable organizations and the good work they do, but the idea that they could have an impact on problems such as health care is even a greater fallacy. We're an extremely rich nation and have been for quite some time, but when it comes to spending a grand on a new plasma TV or giving the money to charity, guess what we do most of the time. We give money to charity when it gives us a good tax break mostly. This is not to say that there are individuals that are extremely charitable, rich and poor alike. There are many people that give of themselves, but this generosity is not pervasive enough to make a dent in our larger problems. Doug ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Why not discuss the topic?
John wrote: No, it was not. The myriad government restrictions have a significant effect on costs. If regulations and restrictions have such a detrimental effect then why do other, more restrictive nations have much more efficient and effective health care systems? Doug ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: WeChooseTheMoon
Which is to say that you believe you know better how people should spend their money than they do themselves. That people need to have their money confiscated and spent by the intellectual elite since otherwise people would spend it on a bunch of crap. No, what I believe is that regarding matters that effect a group of people we often make better, more responsible choices when we act as a group rather than as an individual. We are inherently selfish, but we understand that selflessness is both more noble and more beneficial to the whole. Acting as individuals we will tend towards selfishness; as a group, less so. That said, individuality and indeed selfishness have attributes that the group can't always compete with. Competitiveness sparks innovation and motivates people to work hard and they should and do expect to reap the benefits of their labors. The trick is to balance the two by allowing our competitive nature to flourish while not allowing our baser nature to take paths that will be detrimental in the long run. I think that while without our individual attributes we wouldn't have come so far so fast, but that without the group we would sill have claws or hooves. Doug ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Whatcha reading? (was Re: In despair for the state of SF)
Kevin wrote: Consider Phlebas first, right Charlie? 8^) That was the first (and so far only) Banks book I have tried. I got about half-way before I gave up. Regards, -- Kevin B. O'Brien TANSTAAFL zwil...@zwilnik.com Linux User #333216 I don't want to achieve immortality through my work. I want to achieve it through not dying. -- Woody Allen ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Whatcha reading? (was Re: In despair for the state of SF)
Kevin wrote: I wrote: Consider Phlebas first, right Charlie? 8^) That was the first (and so far only) Banks book I have tried. I got about half-way before I gave up. Hey, to each his own. CP is one of my favorite books, period, but if we all liked the same stuff the world would be a pretty boaring place. What specifically didn't you like? Doug ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: WeChooseTheMoon
John wrote: On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 8:58 PM, Doug Pensingerbrig...@zo.com wrote: Absolutely not, but isn't that how the free market works; the people with money/power decide what's in the best interest of the people they control? People they control? Huh? Politicians and regulators control people. Free market allows people to choose for themselves. So if there was some vital benefit to society and it couldn't be provided without a financial loss, how would the free market provide it? Then we have the ringing success of the U.S. health care system to tell us how well the free market works for sick people. The US health care system is not a free market. Medicare and Medicaid make up more than 50% of US health care spending, so the majority of the US health care system is government controlled. And why isn't it a free market? What is the free market mechanism that provides _all_ of the citizens of one of the the worlds wealthiest nations with health care? Doug ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
