Re: [CTRL] It is impossible... ?

[Stopforth, Jamie]

Title: RE: [CTRL] It is impossible... ?





I saw the building or what was left of it a few days after the explosion... There is NO WAY the bomb in that truck would destroy that building that deep. The back of the building was really messed up. 

Jamie 




-Original Message-
From: Tony Dickinson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 10:21 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [CTRL] It is impossible... ?



-Caveat Lector-


 parked in front of the building. It is impossible that
 the destruction to the building could have resulted
 from such a bomb alone



Not exactly impossible, but the siesmic data reports released at the time
remain unexplained by the vehicle vehicle alone (as far as I know).
Parallel detonators of the kind proposed by Partin would appear to
me unlikely given the (unquestioned) access and scale of building implant
needed.


TD


A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
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screeds are unwelcomed. Substance-not soap-boxing-please! These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'-with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds-is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] It is impossible... ?

[Stopforth, Jamie]

Title: RE: [CTRL] It is impossible... ?





 Motive? That's a tough question. Either way, it was a test of some sort. Technology? Public reaction? I don't kow. Anyone have any ideas?

Jamie


-Original Message-
From: Tony Dickinson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 10:52 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [CTRL] It is impossible... ?



-Caveat Lector-


OK, but which would you go for: internal (intel) affairs, or a Nikita, Jim
Phelps-type operation ? Do you prefer a 'test the public reaction/outcome',
a 'test the putative implant', or some kind of 'test the technology'
scenario ? (Other explanations certainly co-exist 'out-there' too, of
course). Just wonderin'.


TD


 I saw the building or what was left of it a few days after the explosion...
 There is NO WAY the bomb in that truck would destroy that building that
 deep. The back of the building was really messed up.

 Jamie


YYYTYY
Y Y
Y Dr. Tony Dickinson Y
Y Y
Y Visiting Research Fellow/Lecturer in Psychology Y
Y Y
Y McDonnell Centre for Higher Brain Function Y
Y Y
Y Department of Anatomy and Neurobiology Y
Y Washington University School of Medicine Y
Y Box 8108, 660 S Euclid Avenue Y
Y St. Louis, Missouri Y
Y MO 63110 USA Y
Y Y
Y http://eye-hand.wustl.edu/lab/people/dickinson.html Y
Y Y
YY


A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance-not soap-boxing-please! These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'-with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds-is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.


Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

[CTRL] Chicom

[Stopforth, Jamie]

Title: Chicom





Millions of Americans Activists,


With the fall of the Soviet Union, many Americans have 
forgotten that Communism still poses a great threat to our 
nation. Newsmax and Admiral Moorer, former chairman of the 
Joint Chiefs of Staff, are keeping a close eye on China and 
other Communist nations. 


Their one-hour audio tape briefing helps bring shed light 
on the China threat. Check it out.


For Integrity,
Bruce Eberle


==
From: Newsmax
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 11:47 AM
To: Bruce Eberle
Subject: China Threat
==


NewsMax.com Breaking News

Our servicemen may be home, but America's problems with 
China are far from over. 


NewsMax.com has just released a new audio tape briefing with 
Admiral Thomas Moorer. It's called NewsMax.com Presidential 
Briefing: China Plans War



Moorer says China is planning on a major war with the U.S. in 
the next two years. 


This new audio tape is available at 
http://www.newsmax.com/jump/moorer.htm
A HREF = "http://www.newsmax.com/jump/moorer.htm Audio Tape/A


Moorer is the former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, 
the nation's highest-ranking military officer. He has 
advised no less than seven U.S. presidents.


Moorer was chairman in the early 1970s when Pres. Nixon 
opened up China. He has dealt with China in three wars and 
commanded the Pacific Fleet.


In a stunning one-hour audio tape exclusive to NewsMax.com 
readers, Adm. Moorer gives a complete briefing on the danger 
posed by China, the same type of briefing he gave to U.S. 
presidents.


You can get this tape by clicking here: 
http://www.newsmax.com/jump/moorer.htm
A HREF = "http://www.newsmax.com/jump/moorer.htm Audio Tape/A


In this audio tape Moorer discusses:


* Why China's hostage taking fits with their strategy of 
defeating the U.S. 
* He explains what steps must be taken now to stop China's 
military build-up and prevent a war
* Why he believes a conflict with China over Taiwan is 
inevitable 
* His view that a major war with China could erupt in two 
short years 
* Why such a war would likely lead to the use of atomic 
weapons by both sides 
* Details of China's emergence as a global nuclear superpower, 
thanks to Bill Clinton 
* The fact that China's has new bases in both the Panama 
Canal and the Bahamas, allowing them to covertly strike 
every U.S. city with atomic weapons delivered by their large 
arsenal of short and medium range missiles 
* China's desire to challenge the U.S. on every continent - 
and their active use of illegal immigration and the arming of 
Marxist guerillas in Central America as a means to that end


In this special Presidential Briefing, Adm. Moorer explains 
why Gen. MacArthur's warnings about China were prophetic. 
Moorer warns that a new nexus between Russia and China now 
threatens the balance of world power, and fears that one or 
more conflicts may face America in the next few years.


You won't hear this from the major media. Get your copy 
today: 
http://www.newsmax.com/jump/moorer.htm
A HREF = "http://www.newsmax.com/jump/moorer.htm Audio Tape/A




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Re: [CTRL] Bilderberg 2001 In Sweden

[Stopforth, Jamie]

Wonder 
if they'll talk about CTRL... Heh.

  -Original Message-From: William Shannon 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 8:00 
  PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [CTRL] Bilderberg 
  2001 In Swedenhttp://www.spotlight.org/04_10_01/Bilderberg_To_Meet_On_Swedish_/bilderberg_to 
  _meet_on_swedish_.html Bilderberg To Meet On 
  Swedish Isle The SPOTLIGHT has done it again, discovering where this 
  year's meeting of the Bilderberg Group will be held. Exclusive to 
  The SPOTLIGHT By James P. Tucker Jr. Bilderberg will hold its 
  annual secret meeting at a resort near Gotesberg, or Go th enburg, Sweden 
  May 24-28, The SPOTLIGHT has learned. Bilderberg will meet at the 
  Quality Ho tel Stenungsbaden, a luxury resort in Sten ungsund, about 30 
  miles from Go tes berg. While accessible by land, the resort occupies an 
  entire island off the coast. According to travel agencies, Bilder berg 
  has chosen an ideal location for security purposes—something it has always 
  emphasized but has become even more sensitive about in recent years. 
  Not only is the resort surrounded by a moat, but travel agencies 
  report finding no accommodations between Stenungs und and Gotesberg. 
  However, people who have traveled there say modest accommodations can be 
  found. In this remote but luxury setting, Bilderberg will deploy armed 
  guards at the gates and around the hotel. Often, when meeting in Europe, 
  Bilderberg de ploys the military as well, sometimes with dogs. The 
  usual luminaries are scheduled to attend, including David Rockefeller and 
  his valet, Henry Kissinger, who are also leaders of the Bilderberg brother 
  group, the Trilateral Commission. Rockefeller shares power in 
  Bilderberg with the Rothschilds of Britain and Eur ope, and has attended 
  since meetings be gan under that name in 1954. How ever, Rockefeller is 
  now more than 80 years old and has become stooped and feeble. 
  PLUTOCRATIC AGENDA The broad outlines of Bilderberg's 
  perennial agenda are long known: universal free trade to create a world 
  government under the United Nations and elimination of nation-states so 
  the international plutocrats can turn everyone into wage slaves on their 
  Global Plantation. But the specific actions planned for the coming 
  year will only be known after SPOTLIGHT completes its penetrations of 
  Bilderberg in Stenungsund. After then, you will be able to read in-depth 
  reports in The SPOTLIGHT and on several web sites which will present the 
  information as their own, without crediting this populist newspaper. 
  Ever since its founding in 1975, and before this by its publisher, 
  Liberty Lobby, this newspaper has reported on the secret meetings and 
  often the plans of this enigmatic group, Bilderberg. It will be 
  interesting to see if this year the important news will be reported in the 
  controlled media. 

Re: [CTRL] People reporting shootings. Police requesting roads be closed (fwd)

[Stopforth, Jamie]

Title: RE: [CTRL] People reporting shootings. Police requesting roads be closed (fwd)





Sweet! Thanks for the links!


-Original Message-
From: Yardbird [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 10:53 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [CTRL] People reporting shootings. Police requesting roads be
closed (fwd)



-Caveat Lector-


People reporting shootings. Police requesting roads be closed
http://disc.server.com/discussion.cgi?id=149495=596


OFFICER DOWN - 20:05 AZ TIME APRIL 11, 2001 - 1700 VINE STREET


 People, I'm surprised the SCANNER link below is working.
 The things I've heard in just the past few minutes listening is
 almost UN-REAL!!


 People reporting shootings. Police requesting roads be closed.
 Police saying DO NOT RESPOND to certain areas because they couldn't
 CONTROL THE AREA. If you click on this right now, you'll hear the
 action.


 Be AWARE too that I've already gotten a couple PINGs to see who I am
 listening.


 The firewall has blocked Internet access to your computer (UDP Port
 6970) from real.scripps.com (209.215.175.40) (UDP Port 21728). Time:
 4/11/01 19:34:58


 The firewall has blocked Internet access to your computer (NetBIOS
 Name) from 209.246.21.241 (NetBIOS Name).Time: 4/11/01 19:43:50
 Cincinnati is in a state of insurrection.


 Click below to hear the Police calls
 http://real.scripps.com:8480/ramgen/encoder/cincinow_scanner.ra


 See PHOTOS of this here:
 http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3ad3d1a36230.htm


 Subject: Cincinnati



 Ladies and Gentleman,
 Last night damage was widespread and extensive. Findley
 market along with other businesses were burned. White businesses were
 burned, looted, and vandalized along side black owned businesses that
 were left alone.In all there were 60 attempted arsons that were not
 successful on account of the thunderstorms we had last night.
 I observed on the T.V. news coverage very young black kids
 ages 8 to 11 or 12 looting along side young men and middle-aged
 blacks.


 White people were targeted, their car windows smashed yanked
 from their vehicles and beaten by hundreds of blacks. We even had our
 own Reginald Deney case, a white man from Pittsburgh was yanked from
 his tractor trailer and bricked. Three police precincts were attacked
 along with city hall.


 However the mainstream news media is absolutely refusing to
 call this a race riot. They refuse to label these hate crimes.
 Everyone must know that this is indeed a race riot and that white
 people are being targeted for no other reason than their skin color.
 These are hate crimes being perpetrated on innocent white people.
 According to my sources the rioting is to resume full force
 again tonight at sundown. Right now as I write this there are two
 small skirmishes going on. One at Gilbert and Macmillan and the other
 on Lynn St. on the west side. According to my sources on tonight's
 agenda is to take this out to the surrounding suburbs. Lincoln
 Heights and Lockland police stations are to be the primary targets
 My opinion is that this just the beginning of what's to come.
 This may indeed be a long hot summer and I don't believe this is the
 only place we will see this happen. Be on your toes updates will come
 as soon as they are warranted.


 Thanks Mjr. Ray Hartke K.S.M.
 --- End forwarded message ---
===
Images of Cincinnati Riot
http://disc.server.com/Indices/149495.html


[WACO] APPOINTMENT WITH THE APOCALYPSE
http://disc.server.com/Indices/149495.html


A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance-not soap-boxing-please! These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'-with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds-is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.


Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html
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Re: [CTRL] So Goodbye Jesse Jackson

[Stopforth, Jamie]

Title: RE: [CTRL] So Goodbye Jesse Jackson





Does anyone know if Jesse got a round trip or one-way ticket? I'm praying for the latter.


Jamie


-Original Message-
From: Aleisha Saba [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 8:21 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [CTRL] So Goodbye Jesse Jackson



Boy the Chinese know when to fold; the thought of Jesse Jackson coming
to China was just too much - and Clinton as backup man?


Diplomacy is like, never having to say I apologize - but I am sorry will
sufficeall save face - no Hari Kari (Chinese do they do this) and
our 24 returns home - eveybody Happy - and Jesse can go back into
retreat.


Wonder what that pilot and co pilot were doing when they were on
automatic pilot - reading novels in the John?


Saba


China says it will free U.S. crew
U.S. says it's 'very sorry'
for Chinese pilot's death,
violation of sovereignty
when U.S. plane landedApril 11 -- NBC's Ned Colt reports that China has
agreed to release the crew of a U.S. reconnaissance plane.
MSNBC STAFF AND WIRE REPORTS
April 11 -  China said Wednesday it would free the detained crew of
a U.S. spy plane after receiving a letter from President Bush saying he
was very sorry that an American spy plane was forced to land in
Chinese territory after a crash that apparently killed one of China's
fighter pilots. U.S. officials confirmed the deal and told NBC News that
a plane would leave Guam shortly to retrieve the 24 Americans, who have
been held in China for 11 days.
   
 
 
 
      'The U.S. ambassador has received verbal assurances from the
Chinese government that the air crew will be allowed to leave promptly.'
- WHITE HOUSE STATEMENT
       THE FATE of the high-tech EP-3E spy plane was not
immediately clear, although Chinese officials indicated they still
needed to conduct a lengthy investigation. U.S. officials had previously
said they expected the aircraft to be returned.
       The wording of the letter from Bush will allow officials
in both countries to claim victory after the 11-day diplomatic standoff,
with China portraying it as the apology it had demanded and the United
States saying it was not, Pentagon sources told NBC News.
       Chen Ci, a Foreign Ministry spokesman on Hainan Island,
where the crew was being detained, said that U.S. Ambassador Joseph
Prueher delivered the letter Wednesday afternoon to the Chinese Foreign
Ministry saying the U.S. government was very sorry about the incident. 
Advertisement


       Please convey to the Chinese people and to the family of
pilot Wang Wei that we are very sorry for their loss, Chen said. He
said the letter goes on to say that Washington is very sorry the
entering of China's airspace and landing did not have verbal clearance.
       The American letter also expressed appreciation for
China's efforts to see to the well being of the crew, he said.
       
'VERBAL ASSURANCES' FROM CHINA
       The White House issued a statement saying, The U.S.
ambassador has received verbal assurances from the Chinese government
that the air crew will be allowed to leave promptly.
       Bush was to make a statement at the White House within
the hour.
       The 21 men and three women have been held on Hainan
island in the South China Sea for 11 days. They made an emergency
landing on Hainan after their U.S. Navy EP-3E surveillance plane
collided with a Chinese fighter jet, which crashed at sea, apparently
killing the pilot. U.S.-China face off*Latest news*WashPost:
Detainees develop a routine*Newsweek: Special report*Newsweek: Crash
in clouds*Crew of the U.S. plane*Opinions: Diplomacy tips*China's
military: MSNBC special report*NBC: Was pilot top gun?*Interactive:
China's military*What's your opinion? Sound off on our BBS Pentagon
officials said that Chinese objected to the use of a military aircraft
to retrieve the crew, so the U.S. was dispatching a commercial charter
from Guam. The plane will carry specialists who will begin debriefing
the crew on the return flight and psychologists for possible counseling,
the officials said.
       After retrieving the crew, the charter will return to
Guam to be refueled, but the crew will likely remain on the plane until
it arrives in Hawaii, they said. The crew will spend several days there
decompressing and being debriefed about the accident, the landing and
their incarceration.
       China's Foreign Minister Tang Jiaxuan said the crew was
being released on humanitarian grounds and expressed hope that the
dispute would not damage relations between the two governments.
       China puts great importance on its relations with the
United States, Tang said.
       Tang urged Washington to cooperate in settling the
dispute, and to do nothing that would damage relations between the two
governments.
       
U.S. OFFERS EXPRESSION OF REGRET
       The compromise language that cleared the way for the
release of the crew was hammered out Tuesday. The letter also notes that
while the U.S. plane 

Re: [CTRL] So We Have Chinese Freemasons?

[Stopforth, Jamie]

Title: RE: [CTRL] So We Have Chinese Freemasons?





Global Governance has numerous meanings, one of them includes that of numerous nationalities in the Elitist group. Total control is what they want, this includes every single person/country. Of course there are Chinese in high places, Clinton didn't meet with them for nothin you know.

Jamie




 So what country caused the blowing up of the Chinese Embassy?

 So what country actually dropped this bomb; for you know, Russia doesn't
 want the USA too cozy with Chinese - just as Israel wants to keep
 themselves as our most favored nation - so Remember the USS Liberty and
 wonder why this Chinese stuff?



A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance-not soap-boxing-please! These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'-with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds-is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.


Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html
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Re: [CTRL] No Whites Need Apply (fwd)

[Stopforth, Jamie]

Title: RE: [CTRL] No Whites Need Apply (fwd)





If it was the other way around, he most definitely would be referred to as a racist. And Jesse Jackson would hop off of his latest mistress, get dressed and make his way to the location of racial lawfirm using blackmail to get what he wants just as he's done in the past. 

Jamie


-Original Message-
From: Yardbird [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 9:56 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [CTRL] No Whites Need Apply (fwd)



-Caveat Lector-


Civil Wrongs
By Mark Trapp
FrontpageMagazine.com | March 30, 2001
URL:
http://www.frontpagemag.com/archives/racerelations/trapp03-30-01.htm


JUDGE THERESA CISNEROS of Colorado's Fourth District has
a nifty new way to increase diversity among her summer clerks:
only African-American law students are allowed to apply.


Judge Cisneros, in conjunction with the El Paso County (CO) Bar
Association Diversity Committee and the Sachs Foundation, has
approved two summer judicial clerkships limited solely to black
law students. Indeed, the advertisement for the positions states
that you must be African American. Only if you meet this
requirement may you contact Judge Cisneros for an application
to study and learn with experienced judges in the 4th Judicial
District in Colorado Springs, Co.


Apparently, the Sachs Foundation is supplying the $18,486 to
pay for these two clerkships. According to its website, the Sachs
Foundation was incorporated as a Colorado, non-profit
corporation in 1931 and since that time has helped over 6,670
black Colorado residents obtain a college education. The group
provides grants to about 250 black students per year.


Interestingly the Sachs Foundation has various ways of
determining whether an applicant is truly an African American.
Their website states that the group considers a person to be an
African-American if they are a member of the African-American
race. Applicants with mixed racial and ethnic backgrounds must
demonstrate their racial identity to be predominantly
African-American and the Trustees will interview and make a
determination as to qualification in those cases which are
uncertain. Information as to philosophy, commitment to the
African-American race and self-identity may also be considered
in such cases.


Wow. Commitment to the African-American race? Philosophy?
Apparently, for this group, one's race can be determined by their
ideology. Just how does one demonstrate their commitment to
the African American race? By dating a black person? By voting
a certain way? By wearing a Malcolm X t-shirt?


Who would have thought that a sitting judge could be so ignorant
as to entangle herself, her court and her county in such a
blatantly racist and illegal scheme? To illustrate how outrageous
this is, imagine the following:


A sitting judge, in, say, Birmingham, Alabama advertises for two
summer clerkships in his court, and states in the ad that the
applicant must be white. Imagine further that the clerkships are
to be sponsored and paid for by an Alabama non-profit
corporation which provides money solely to white students.
Next, imagine that in uncertain cases, this non-profit group
determines who is white by reference to their philosophy and
their commitment to the white race. Sounds like something
straight out of a KKK recruitment brochure, doesn't it?


Can you imagine the pandemonium such a state of affairs would
cause? Jesse Jackson and his mistress - oops - I mean
minions would descend on this judge so fast his head would
spin. Al Sharpton would be comparing this judge to David Duke,
and the NAACP, the ACLU and Johnnie Cochran would be filing
a lawsuit faster than you could say Orenthal James Simpson.
And they would be right in doing so. But don't expect the same
reaction when the shoe is on the other foot. After all, America's
new commandment, Thou shalt be diverse is at stake.


The strangest part of all of this is the blatant lack of knowledge
shown by Judge Cisneros. Apparently, she has never heard of
Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which prohibits
employment discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex, or
national origin. It doesn't take much of an education to figure out
that limiting the applicants for these government jobs solely to
African Americans blatantly violates this law. You would expect a
judge to know this.


You would also expect that at least one of the lawyers in the El
Paso County Bar Association would have realized the legal and
political problems with these race-based clerkships, and not
allowed their group to sponsor them. However, according to the
group's website, the chairperson of the Association's diversity
committee is - you guessed it - Judge Cisneros. Surprise,
surprise.


The very idea that a judge and indeed, an entire county's bar
association would allow this ad to pass unnoticed demonstrates
how screwed-up our society has become in matters dealing with
race. Can there be any doubt that if the ad 

Re: [CTRL] Anyone Have Any Articles on the Federal Reserve?

[Stopforth, Jamie]

Title: RE: [CTRL] Anyone Have Any Articles on the Federal Reserve?





I'll check out that book... Thanks for the information Michael.


Jamie


-Original Message-
From: michael pugliese [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 9:05 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Anyone Have Any Articles on the Federal Reserve?



-Caveat Lector-


Eustace Mullins? PUH-LEEZE! Heard him interviewed by Christian
Identity loon,
Rev. Jim Wickstrom on the Posse Comitatus radio show back around
fall of '99. Blathered on about thousands of Christian
children being kidnapped by Jews here in the U.S. and killed
after Satanic rituals like drinking their blood.
Wanna read something factual on the Federal Reserve read, Secrets
of the Temple,  by William Greider, the writer for Rolling Stone
that did the famous interview
with David Stockman early in the Gippers first term in infamy.
Michael Pugliese


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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Chicken threatens teacher

[Stopforth, Jamie]

Title: RE: [CTRL] Chicken threatens teacher





 Or if adults weren't ignorant to the fact that an 8 year wasn't making a threat and was doing what most other 8 year old boys do at that age Play.

-Original Message-
From: Bill Howard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 3:20 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Chicken threatens teacher



-Caveat Lector-


In a message dated 4/2/01 1:09:03 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


 JONESBORO, AR - When eight-year-old Christopher Kissinger pointed a
chicken strip at another student in the cafeteria of the South Elementary
School
while saying pow, pow, pow, a nearby teacher thought the threat was meant
for her. 


This would be a non issue if there were back ground checks, and three day
waiting periods for people eating chicken strips.


Bill H


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DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'-with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds-is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.


Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Anyone have any articles on the Federal Reserve System ?

[Stopforth, Jamie]

Title: RE: [CTRL] Anyone have any articles on the Federal Reserve System?





Thanks Bob and all who have offered articles or references. It's most interesting in deed... If only people knew the truth.

Jamie


-Original Message-
From: Bob Stokes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 6:21 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Anyone have any articles on the Federal Reserve
System?



-Caveat Lector-


In a message dated 3/28/01 5:11:25 PM Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


 On Wed, 28 Mar 2001, Stopforth, Jamie wrote:


 I'm doing some research and would like any info anyone has on it.

 Thanks,
 Jamie 


The CTRL archives have many articles that were posted over the last four
years. I would venture to say that you'll find more than fifty references.


Regards,
Bob Stokes


A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance-not soap-boxing-please! These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'-with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds-is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.


Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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[CTRL] Anyone have any articles on the Federal Reserve System?

[Stopforth, Jamie]

Title: Anyone have any articles on the Federal Reserve System?





 I'm doing some research and would like any info anyone has on it.


Thanks,
Jamie



If you ever teach a yodeling class, probably the hardest thing is to keep the students from just trying to yodel right off. You see, we build to that.

Re: [CTRL] The Hidden Meaning Of Marriage Tax Repeal

[Stopforth, Jamie]

Title: RE: [CTRL] The Hidden Meaning Of Marriage Tax Repeal





 It's a shame they simply can't cut taxes... There's always some other hoop we'll need to jump through... In my opinion they (elitest losers) don't want the mother staying home to raise the children. Break up the family institution at any cost.

Jamie


-Original Message-
From: Tenorlove [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 8:54 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [CTRL] The Hidden Meaning Of Marriage Tax Repeal



-Caveat Lector-


 The Hidden Meaning Of Marriage Tax Repeal

 March 7, 2001 by: Phyllis Schlafly

 Repeal of the marriage tax penalty was always good for a big round
 of applause in the campaign speeches of most political candidates
 last year. But it's scheduled for bumpy sledding in the drafting of
 this
 year's tax-cut bill.

 The marriage tax is not verbally expressed as policy in any statute
 but is buried in the numbers. It is a consequence of the fact that
 our
 income tax tables treat a married couple as only 1.67 persons
 instead of two whole persons.

 Few people understand how the marriage tax functions or how it
 should be remedied except the green-eyeshade number-crunchers.
 But dollars are not all that matters; ideology is at stake in the
 drafting
 of changes in the income tax law.

 Is the purpose of cutting the marriage tax to accord long overdue
 socio-economic respect for marriage as an institution fundamental to
 our society and to the raising of children? Or is the purpose to
 enable
 government to engage in national economic planning by using tax
 policy to influence human behavior?

 If the purpose is the former, then it follows that all married
 couples
 with the same income should be taxed equally. If the plan is to give
 a
 tax break to two-earner couples only, that will replace the marriage
 penalty with a new homemaker penalty.

 That's what's behind the controversy now going on behind closed
 doors in Washington. Even those politicians who don't particularly
 care about promoting marriage should be squeamish about
 discriminating against one type of married couples in favor of
 another.

 Last year's Congress dealt fairly with this issue by passing a bill
 that
 taxed one-earner and two-earner married couples equally. Bill Clinton
 showed which side he was on by vetoing the bill, and it did not
 become law.

 Unfortunately, the White House executive summary of the
 President's tax-cut proposal calls for reducing the marriage penalty
 by reinstating the 10 percent deduction for two-earner couples. Not
 only does this proposal give less relief than the bill passed by
 Congress last year but, even worse, it would impose a new
 homemaker penalty on one-earner couples.

 Since the Bush tax cuts would be phased in over five to seven years,
 for simplicity, let's consider what they would accomplish after they
 become fully operative.

 Let's say a married couple is struggling financially and needs more
 income to support the family, perhaps because of the birth of a
 child.
 What choices are available?

 In one family, assume the wife takes a job and puts her children in
 daycare. This couple would get a marriage tax deduction of 10
 percent of her salary up to $30,000; that chops as much as $990 off
 the family's federal income tax bill (at the new 33 percent top Bush
 tax rate). In addition, this couple qualifies for the existing tax
 credit
 for child-care expenses, which is worth up to $960.

 Now consider another family where the husband moonlights at a
 second job so his wife can care for their children at home. This
 family
 will not qualify for either the new Bush marriage tax break or the
 child-care credit that exists in current tax law.

 The husband and wife surely work just as hard in this second family
 as in the first. Why should they pay up to $1,950 more in federal
 income taxes on the same family income?

 Moonlighting at a second job is just one of several ways a husband
 can provide his children with the benefits of a fulltime mother, and
 avoid commercial daycare. The husband can work longer hours at his
 first job; he can make the extra effort required to get a higher
 paying
 job; he can go to school at night to train for a higher paying
 career.

 Who are the bureaucrats who presume to use the tax power to force
 traditional husband-breadwinner, wife-homemaker couples to
 subsidize two-earner couples who hire paid child care?

 The marriage penalty in the tax code is an immoral policy regardless
 of one-earner or two-earner households. Giving a tax cut only to
 two-earner couples would send the radical feminist message that the
 government sees no value in a homemaker's work at home, that the
 role of a non-working wife and mother is less socially beneficial
 (or
 less worthy) than paid employment.

 Disturbing emanations from the tax-writing process indicate that this
 discrimination is not inadvertent. A leading economic adviser praised
 the goal of 

Re: [CTRL] SCHOOL SHOOTING 9:22 pst (fwd) one more thing......

[Stopforth, Jamie]

Title: RE: [CTRL] SCHOOL SHOOTING 9:22 pst (fwd) one more thing..





Some Startling Statistics...

Number of physicians in the U.S.
700,000


Accidental deaths caused by physicians per year
120,000


Accidental deaths per physician
0.171


Number of gun owners in the U.S.
80,000,000


Number of accidental gun deaths per year (all age groups)
1,500


Accidental deaths per gun owner
0.188


Therefore, doctors are approximately 9,000 times more dangerous than gun
owners.


Taken from the Benton County NewsTribune on the 17th of November, 1999


So, should we ban physicians?


Jamie


-Original Message-
From: Tenorlove [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 2:43 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [CTRL] SCHOOL SHOOTING 9:22 pst (fwd) one more thing..



-Caveat Lector-


Plotting Santee, CA on the map at
http://www.cuttingedge.org/news/n1350.cfm and ignoring the X drawn on
the map, one gets, skirting the perimeter of shooting sites, an upside
down, rather irregular, pentagram.


Tenorlove
waiting with normal, un-bated breath for that show on auto deaths




__
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Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/


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==
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screeds are unwelcomed. Substance-not soap-boxing-please! These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'-with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds-is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.


Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Like I was saying about working for somebody else..... ....

[Stopforth, Jamie]

Title: RE: [CTRL] Like I was saying about working for somebody else.





 Corporate America is mans modern-day slavery.


Jamie


-Original Message-
From: Tenorlove [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 9:00 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [CTRL] Like I was saying about working for somebody
else.



-Caveat Lector-


from http://www.jillsjokeline.com


SLANGDAMONIUM WORD FOR TODAY - CORPOORATION


Todd was baffled at his annual salary review when the Fortune 500
conglomerate he thought he worked for mysteriously became a
cash-strapped
corpooration.


DEFINITION: A company's sudden lack of funds at raise time.



__
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices! http://auctions.yahoo.com/


A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance-not soap-boxing-please! These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'-with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds-is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.


Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Why don't Americans Build Wealth?

[Stopforth, Jamie]

Title: RE: [CTRL] Why don't Americans Build Wealth?





www.richdad.com Check it out.



Jamie


-Original Message-
From: Tenorlove [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 7:41 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Why don't Americans Build Wealth?



-Caveat Lector-


This article fails to point out the most important reason: NO ONE WILL
EVER GET WEALTHY WORKING FOR SOMEONE ELSE! The same people who
determine the wages, also set the prices. The élites have a vested
interest in you NOT becoming wealthy. They WANT you to be trapped in a
vicious circle of work -- debt -- paycheck to paycheck etc. That's
how they CONTROL you, and CONTROL is the one thing they value the most.



You MUST have a source of income, cash or otherwise, that is not
dependent on some employer's whims. And don't discount the otherwise.
This can mean owning solar panels to lessen your dependence on the
utility company, a garden or some animals to lessen your dependence on
the grocery store, a barter system set up with friends and neighbors to
lessen your dependence on Wal Mart, etc. Having your own business is a
good thing. Then, it is up to YOU, not some suit in an office 3000
miles away, whether your future involves living indoors or not.


Tenorlove


__
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices! http://auctions.yahoo.com/


A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance-not soap-boxing-please! These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'-with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds-is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.


Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] WHITE HOUSE OFFICES LEFT 'TRASHED': PORN BOMBS.......

[Stopforth, Jamie]

Title: RE: [CTRL] WHITE HOUSE OFFICES LEFT 'TRASHED': PORN BOMBS...







And the damage done to the White House was not more than
could be expected when a 400 person staff leaves a facility wherein
they have been ensconced for 8 years.


Bill Clinton was just such jolly fun to go after that the Republicans
just don't want to stop.



sno0wl


 If they can't get him for lying under oath, treason, illegal campaign finance, file-gate etc... Then let them at least get him for stealing some salt  pepper shakers.

Jamie

Re: [CTRL] Disclaimers and Men who think they have a right to hu rt Women

[Stopforth, Jamie]

Title: RE: [CTRL] Disclaimers and Men who think they have a right to hurt Women








Self defense against those who commit violence IS violence. Ergo, if the
statement Self defense against those who commit violence is a social
good is true, then the statement Violence against anyone is bad is
false because those who commit violence is a subset of anyone.


Logic 101
nessie


 Violence against anyone is a false statement. Violence is the only way to handle some people, hence self-defense. 

Keep it simple, stupid.


Honors Logic


Jamie

Re: [CTRL] Picture of IT?

[Stopforth, Jamie]

Title: RE: [CTRL] Picture of IT?





And is this what IT really is? According to who?


-Original Message-
From: Nessie [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 2:23 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Picture of IT?



-Caveat Lector-


while the motor is running 



Where's the motor? Where's the fuel tank. What kind of motor is it?


A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
=CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance-not soap-boxing-please! These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'-with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds-is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.


Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
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Re: [CTRL] 93 Christians Killed For Not Coverting to Islam

[Stopforth, Jamie]

Title: RE: [CTRL] 93 Christians Killed For Not Coverting to Islam






Every time I bring this up in public there is a dead silence. How can
churches get away with running for profit schools, factories, rentals,
and such and not pay taxes? The Organized Chruches in this country are
vastly rich, and getting ever richer. Yet they do not pay taxes.
Jayson


 I think the question we should be asking ourselves is how can the government get away with forcing everyone to pay taxes as if it's citizens obligation? Well, that's another issue all-together, when you look at how the income tax amendment was ratified and how the system is supposed to be a voluntary system... Anyways, the Churches have it right. We should all follow suit. 

Jamie

Re: [CTRL] Bus Won Popular Vote - We Shall See

[Stopforth, Jamie]

Title: RE: [CTRL] Bus Won Popular Vote - We Shall See





 Even if Bush did win the popular vote... More voters may have turned out knowing that it was a popular vote in which the decision for President would have been made. Example, I'm in Oklahoma, I knew we'd vote Republican, hence I didn't waste my time at the voting booth as I'm a rep also... If it was a popular vote, I would have been in that booth casting my vote. You can say this for both reps and dems. So the This guy would have won had it been a popular vote argument is not a valid nor legitimate one.

Jamie

Re: [CTRL] Christians : Cain and Abel (Conspiracy)

[Stopforth, Jamie]

Title: RE: [CTRL] Christians : Cain and Abel (Conspiracy)







if you think it is literal then do oyu really want a god who wants to keep
you ignorant- but protects you?


give me the apple baby...



If the above is an example of your reasoning, you must have had some bad apples.


Jamie

Re: [CTRL] Christians : Cain and Abel (Conspiracy)

[Stopforth, Jamie]

Title: RE: [CTRL] Christians : Cain and Abel (Conspiracy)




We may want to take this discussion off the list... But to answer your
questions, yes, I believe without God, you can't know true knowledge. No,
I do not believe the story of Adam and Eveto be simply an
analogy.That answers your next three questions. Gappist? Can
you explain? My front teeth do not have a gap... Does that
work?

Jamie



  -Original Message-From: c.
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Friday, January 05, 2001 11:41
  AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [CTRL]
  Christians : Cain and Abel (Conspiracy)
  why do you say that? explain what is wrong with my
  reasoning.
  do you dispute that the apple was the apple of
  knowledge?
  do you not think it is an analogy for self awareness and
  maturity and self reliance?
  
  do you believe it is literal?
  are you a creationist?
  are you a gappist? ;)
  
- Original Message - 
From:
Stopforth, Jamie 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: 05 January 2001 16:34
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Christians : Cain
and Abel (Conspiracy)

if you think it is literal then do oyu
really want a god who wants to keep you ignorant-
but protects you? 
give me the apple baby... 
If the above is an example of your reasoning, you must have
had some bad apples. 
Jamie 

Re: [CTRL] GAP THEORY was Re: [CTRL] Christians : Cain and Abel ( Conspiracy)

[Stopforth, Jamie]

Title: RE: [CTRL] GAP THEORY was Re: [CTRL] Christians : Cain and Abel (Conspiracy)





yeah, I'm really am sweet guy... Feel free to email me off the list, I'm always up for some constructive discussions... Even if it's with opposing view-points, knowledge of anything whether before or against what one believes, is great to me. I'll check out the gap theory information...

Thanks,
Jamie


-Original Message-
From: c. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, January 05, 2001 12:48 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [CTRL] GAP THEORY was Re: [CTRL] Christians : Cain and Abel
(Conspiracy)



-Caveat Lector-


RE: [CTRL] Christians : Cain and Abel (Conspiracy)jamie
there is probably no point in debating what genesis means if you are a
creationist and i am not. it is irreconcilable i would think.
by all means debate it offlist with me, but i am sure i will not be able to
knock holes in your faith!
...but your definition of me eating a bad apple to come up with my
suggestions as to the meaning of genesis is very sweet of you- as if you
were born to offer up the legendary xtian assertion of the forbidden fruit
being 'bad'!


like the fork in the road...






gap theory


an xtian site explains...


http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c003.html


Many people have tried to place a gap of indeterminate time between the
first two verses of Genesis chapter 1. There are many different versions as
to what supposedly happened in this gap of time. Most versions of the
gap theory place millions of years of geologic time (including billions of
fossil animals) in between these two first verses of Genesis. This is the
ruin-reconstruction version of the gap theory.
However, this undermines the gospel as it allows for death, bloodshed,
disease, and suffering before Adam's sin. Because most ruin-reconstruction
theorists have accepted the millions of years dating for the fossil record,
they have thus allowed the fallible theories of scientists to determine the
meaning of Scripture.
Some put the fall of Satan in this supposed period. But any rebellion of
Satan during this gap of time contradicts God's description of His completed
creation on day six as all being very good (Genesis 1:31).
All versions of the gap theory impose outside ideas on Scripture and thus
open the door for further compromise.
These are the verses where there is supposed to be a gap:
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. And the earth was
without form, and empty; and the darkness was upon the face of the deep. And
the Spirit of God moved on the face of the waters (Genesis 1:1-2).






- Original Message -
From: Stopforth, Jamie
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 05 January 2001 18:15
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Christians : Cain and Abel (Conspiracy)



 We may want to take this discussion off the list... But to answer your
questions, yes, I believe without God, you can't know true knowledge. No, I
do not believe the story of Adam and Eve to be simply an analogy. That
answers your next three questions. Gappist? Can you explain? My front
teeth do not have a gap... Does that work?


Jamie



-Original Message-
From: c. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, January 05, 2001 11:41 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Christians : Cain and Abel (Conspiracy)



why do you say that? explain what is wrong with my reasoning.
do you dispute that the apple was the apple of knowledge?
do you not think it is an analogy for self awareness and maturity and self
reliance?


do you believe it is literal?
are you a creationist?
are you a gappist? ;)
- Original Message -
From: Stopforth, Jamie
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 05 January 2001 16:34
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Christians : Cain and Abel (Conspiracy)






if you think it is literal then do oyu really want a god who wants to
keep
you ignorant- but protects you?
give me the apple baby...



If the above is an example of your reasoning, you must have had some bad
apples.
Jamie


A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance-not soap-boxing-please! These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'-with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds-is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.


Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html
A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.htmlArchives of
[EMAIL PROTECTED

Re: [CTRL] Fwd: Election fraud in 6 Florida counties

[Stopforth, Jamie]

Title: RE: [CTRL] Fwd: Election fraud in 6 Florida counties





And then you have 49 other states in which the same thing could have happened except for the dems... What gives? Give it up. Floriduh isn't the only state that voted... 

Jamie


-Original Message-
From: radman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, January 05, 2001 2:24 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [CTRL] Fwd: Election fraud in 6 Florida counties



-Caveat Lector-


From: David Scheim [EMAIL PROTECTED]

ELECTION FRAUD IN 6 FLORIDA COUNTIES
- David E. Scheim
(details, documentation, more on http://www.campaignwatch.org)
---
Breaking news of a forged signature of a dead man and dozens of
other illegal votes in Miami, a Republican activist illegally
filling out absentee ballots for voters, and other reports have
established absentee ballot fraud in six Florida Counties. It
appears less than coincidental that the central figure in the
most notorious case of election fraud in recent U.S. history
admitted helping the GOP prepare absentee ballot requests in
Miami.
---
In Miami-Dade, the forged signature of a dead man and dozens of
other illegal votes/1 last November raise striking parallels to
the notorious Miami election fraud scandal of 1998 in which newly
elected Mayor Xavier Suarez was ousted from office./2 It was
perhaps less than coincidental that Suarez, elected to the the
Executive Committee of the Miami Dade GOP, admitted handling
absentee ballots this past election./3
In Hillsborough County, Republican activist Isis Segarra, who had
a prior vote fraud conviction overturned on appeal, allegedly
filled out absentee ballots for three non-disabled voters, a
felony, turned up as a witness on at least 81 absentee ballots,
and registered and requested absentee ballots for dozens of
voters./4 In Okaloosa County, the Republican elections supervisor
sent out absentee ballots unsolicited in response to
change-of-address notifications, a practice that was bizarre and
illegal, contributing to an 81%, 8,600 margin in absentee ballots
for Bush in that County./5
In Seminole County, GOP actions a court ruled illegal, perjured
testimony, and unsupervised access to election office files and
computers were among several suspicious activities that were only
partially exposed in court./6 In Martin County, ex-CIA agent
Charles Kane/7 participated in scheme to remove GOP absentee
ballot requests and fill in voter identification numbers/8 which
a Florida court again ruled illegal./9 In Bay County, which has
more registered Democrats than Republicans, a suitcase full of
absentee ballots was illegally turned in, contributing to a
9,000-to-3,000 margin in absentee ballots for Bush./10
These cases and other similar reports add up to systematic
absentee ballot fraud Florida that racked up thousands of votes
for presidential candidate George Bush. They recall the the
notorious absentee fraud scandal which led to the ouster of
newly-elected Mayor Xavier Suarez in 1998./11 Suarez had won the
mayoral contest with the help of a 2-1 margin in absentee ballots
that were plagued with fraud/12-the same absentee vote margin
that Bush won in both Seminole/13 and Martin/14 counties (he won
56% of the total votes in each of those counties/15).Suarez, who
was elected last September to the Executive Committee of the
Miami-Dade Republican Party,/16 admitted handling absentee ballot
requests this past election./17 Far from surprising, therefore,
are revelations from the Miami Herald of more than 100 illegal
votes, including one obtained with the forged signature of a dead
man, disclosed after examination of votes from just 138 of 641
precincts in Miami-Dade County./18 The Miami Herald also found
that in the two Miami precincts with the highest discard rate for
the presidential vote (13%, more than double their discard rates
in the 1996 election), 13 of 20 voting machines did not pass a
polling test conducted minutes before the polls opened, yet were
not taken out of service as required./19
When the GOP sent in well-organized mob, including GOP paid
Congressional staffers,/20 which trampled, punched and kicked
people in the building where Miami-Dade vote counts were
proceeding,/21 the stakes were quite high. For the recount that
this mob action successfully stopped (rumors suggest that
intimidation from organized crime was also involved) would not
only have won the election for Gore, but could also have led to
earlier indications of rampant election fraud.
Another angle to the work of Suarez and others in Florida is
suggested by the experience of Adora Nweze, a Florida NAACP board
member. When Nweze went to vote in Miami, she was told she had
already requested an absentee ballot, and finally persevered in
voting only after a long and heated argument in which she recited
the law./22 In Pinellas County, a Democratic voter was turned
away from the voting booth, falsely told she 

Re: [CTRL] Christians and Conspiracy Theory

[Stopforth, Jamie]

Title: RE: [CTRL] Christians and Conspiracy Theory






Strangely all this (and the following) seems to get left out of Sunday Sc=
hool classes, leading to the millions of Christians who have wondered 'If=
Adam and Eve had 2 children, Cain and Abel, and Cain killed Abel, where =
did everyone else come from?'.

 Johannes


Where does it say that Cain and Abel were their ONLY children? So, they had 2 sons named Cain and Abel... 
Thanks,
Jamie

Re: [CTRL] Mass shooting in Massachusetts

[Stopforth, Jamie]

Title: RE: [CTRL] Mass shooting in Massachusetts





I think it's all orchestrated... I mean how often did this occur 20 years ago or more? It must be easier for the Elitists to pull off today then it was before because of mind control or whatever, I dunno. But it's definitely not a random that's what really happened crime. I noticed how the media was so forward in listing all the weapons of the shooter and a rifle was mentioned... See, those NRA guys really are bad murderous criminals. This is a setup to show that any gun can be a murder weapon even rifles so they can take our guns... They create the crisis then they provide their solution and the people will accept it, specially if Rosie O'Donnell in here ignorance supports it. The sheeple just don't see it. They don't think for themselves anymore.

Jamie


-Original Message-
From: kl [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2000 3:18 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [CTRL] Mass shooting in Massachusetts



-Caveat Lector-


The following was snipped from my inbox. Has anyone else
heard anything about this?


Dearest Friends,


Right now, I am watching news coverage of a mass
shooting in Wakefield,
Massachusetts. It struck me as very strange that there
are reports of BATF
being involved, and one of the first things I noticed
were the police
dressed from head to toe in black, with black helmets,
black face masks, and
the letters: S.O.U. on the backs of their black
uniforms. Does anyone have
any clue what S.O.U. might mean?


These shootings are a strange phenomenon indeed. What
do you folks think?
Whatever happened to the traditional police uniforms
(in other words, why do
they look like military instead of everyday, average
law enforcement
officers?) Just some food for thought.


God bless,
(Name withheld)



--



Taking a long view of history, we may say that anyone who lays down his arms deserves whatever he gets. --Jeff Cooper


A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance-not soap-boxing-please! These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'-with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds-is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.


Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html
A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.htmlArchives of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]/A


http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ctrl/A

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]


Om

[CTRL] Democratic county commissioner manipulated ballots

[Stopforth, Jamie]

Title: Democratic county commissioner manipulated ballots





http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/default-20001116225829.htm


Jamie

[CTRL] Clinton Sets Aside More Land With No General Public Access...

[Stopforth, Jamie]

Title: Clinton Sets Aside More Land With No General Public Access...





Move out the citizens, move in the troops...


http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_fosters_news/20001115_xnfos_president_.shtml


Jamie

[CTRL] RE: [CTRL] Israeli War Crimes- NOT!

[Stopforth, Jamie]

Wow, nice propaganda article here. 
If it's truth you seek then visit here...http://www.members.home.net/projectonesoul/israel/israel.htm 
and this one... http://www.rotter.net/israel/

I'll 
throw rocks at you with the intent to kill you and if you have a gun, you have 
every right to fire back. "Oh wait, he's throwing rocks at me, I 
have to play fair, put down my weapon and throw rocks back." Since when is 
war fair? And not just that, but they are NOT only using rocks, they do 
have weapons, but CNN doesn't want us to know that either.

Jamie

  -Original Message-From: William Shannon 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2000 10:00 
  AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [CTRL] Israeli War 
  CrimesRights Groups Charge Israelis With War Crimes Israel’s 
  iron fist tactics have been condemned as war atrocities by an 
  international human rights group. Exclusive to The SPOTLIGHT 
  By Christopher Bollyn Israel’s military tactics in the 
  occupied territories have been strongly condemned and “could amount to war 
  crimes,” according to the London-based human rights group Amnesty 
  International (AI). An American group, Physicians for Human Rights USA 
  (PHR), also investigated the clashes by sending a team of three physicians 
  to the occupied territories in Gaza and the West Bank from Oct. 20-27. 
  PHR reinforced AI’s findings, reporting that the Israeli Defense Force 
  (IDF) uses live ammunition and rubber-coated steel bullets “excessively 
  and inappropriately.” Five weeks of Arab-Israeli violence have 
  left 200 people dead—many of them children—almost all of them Palestinian. 
  “There is a pattern of gross human rights violations that may well 
  amount to war crimes,” said Claudio Cordone, AI’s international research 
  director. AI’s latest findings go much further than its earlier 
  criticism that Israeli troops were using “excessive force” against 
  Palestinians. Cordone repeated long-standing criticism of Israel’s 
  “iron fist” military response to Palestinian demonstrations that applies 
  “combat reflexes” as opposed to what would be proper policing methods. 
  “There is excessive use of force resulting in killings that shouldn’t 
  take place,” Cordone said. “If a kid is throwing stones at you but not 
  posing any other risk—you don’t shoot him.” Geneva Conventions 
  VIOLATED AI says the Israeli forces are breaking the Geneva 
  Conventions as well as their own rules, namely, that lethal force must 
  only be used to counter an immediate threat to life. As part of 
  international humanitarian law, the Geneva Civilian Convention (1949) 
  protects civilians under occupation and has applied to Israel’s occupation 
  of the West Bank and Gaza since the 1967 war. An IDF senior officer told 
  PHR that “the Fourth Geneva Convention and other humanitarian laws apply” 
  to the current clashes. The Geneva Conventions prohibit murder, 
  torture and cruel, inhumane and degrading treatment. Included in the 
  Geneva Conventions is a law against force that results in disproportionate 
  and/or indiscriminate killing of or violence toward civilians. In 
  an occupation, such as Israel’s of the West Bank and Gaza, the rule of 
  proportionality applies and prohibits excessive force against civilians. 
  DEATH FROM ABOVE Israel has repeatedly used combat helicopters 
  firing heavy machine guns and armor-piercing missiles on Palestinian 
  civilians, towns, and even ambulances. The PHR team examined a Red 
  Crescent Ambulance in Gaza which was damaged by a helicopter gunship. The 
  Israeli helicopter strafed the ambulance with five 50-caliber shells that 
  passed right through the ambulance, including a metal gurney. The 
  bullets used by the IDF against Jewish citizens in Israel or Jewish 
  settlers in the occupied territories are very different than those used on 
  Palestinians. The bullets used for Jewish riot control are solid rubber. 
  There have been no reported deaths resulting from these bullets. 
  The so-called rubber bullets used by the IDF against Israel’s Arab 
  citizens and Palestinians are significantly different. The “Arab bullets” 
  examined by the PHR team are merely rubber-coated steel bullets and very 
  lethal. The rubber-coated bullets used on Palestinians are of two 
  shapes: spherical and cylindrical. The bullets used against Arabs 
  only look rubber with a thin 2 mm outer rubber shell around a solid steel 
  core 1.83 cm in diameter. HEAD INJURIES PHR concluded that 
  Israeli soldiers are shooting high-velocity live ammunition and 
  rubber-coated steel bullets with intent to kill and maim Palestinian 
  demonstrators, based on the high number of injuries to the head and 
  thighs. PHR’s analysis of fatal gun shot wounds in Gaza reveals that 
  approximately 50 percent were to the head. The high proportion of fatal 
  head wounds suggests that soldiers are specifically targeting 
  Palestinians’ eyes. The IDF spokesman 

Re: [CTRL] RE: [CTRL] Israeli War Crimes- NOT!

[Stopforth, Jamie]

Title: RE: [CTRL] RE: [CTRL] Israeli War Crimes- NOT!






Jamie,


Can you tell me why the large difference in the body count? Are
Palestinians such shitty shots? Any fool can get a good body count
with an Uzi or an AK on full auto, what's the problem? Is it that we
aren't getting the facts?


I don't know why the Israelis just don't herd the Palestinians onto
trains for relocation, hell they already have them in ghettoes.


--
´´
Mark McHugh


Israel--Hitler's revenge on the world
 -Anon


So by default the people with the less body count are the Bad Guys? Hmm Let me see, I have a grenade launcher, an enemy soldier fires at me, I launch back killing him and his surrounding soldiers? Just one of the many scenarios that can play out in the dynamics of battle

 But as for body count numbers... Can I get a recount? My point being, just how accurate are those numbers? Do you know for sure? Are issues like that still open to question even after they've been reported by the major media outlets? I would hope so.

As for the catchy quote... People are free to say anything they feel is true... I don't even know the Anon guy, maybe he was famous, maybe not, but if he was, does it make his statement anymore correct? 

Jamie


Reality--The perception of truth based on observation


 -Jamie


 Look, I have a cool quote now...

Re: [CTRL] Bush Finally Admits DUI Arrest: Now Votescam...

[Stopforth, Jamie]

  
  Who really cares about who lied about
  what? The past is the past and no one is going to change what either one
  of these nutzoids did in their pasts. The bottom
  line is you are not going to find the perfect candidate in the choices for
  president available. So why
  bother?And why even botherto
  vote?***
  NEITHER is worthy of my time to go to the
  poll. 
  
  
  eagle 1
  
  
  Good
  Question there Eagle 1...
  
  www.votescam.com
  
  
  You're running in your first election for City
  Council in a crowded field of 26 candidates. Nine will be elected. The No. I
  local anchorman comes on T.V. at about 9:15 PM and announces that you're going
  to do very well for a first time candidatehe flashes on the screen that
  you're running 12th; only three places from victory. Such a finish would give
  hope to all who were daring to fight city hall. Earlier in the
  evening, a liberal-leftist hometown university professor who was analyzing
  early returns for another local TV station had projected that your arch-rival,
  and his allya sweetheart of the anti-God portion of the establishmentwas
  headed towards defeat. But HO-L-L-L-D EVERYTHING !!!At
  approximately 9.45 PM the same anchorman announces that there has been a
  computer breakdown. 45 minutes later when the computers come back up, a
  massive switch has occurred. You and 7 other feisty challengers have fallen to
  the very bottom of the heap The establishment sweetheart has jumped into a
  winning positionagainst all odds. Despite unprecedented public
  dissatisfaction, the same oldfaces are elected once again. Many conclude that
  "you just can't fight city hall. " Things have worked out just great for all
  those entrenched politicians who seemed to be the object of such public
  dissatisfaction right up to election day. The next morning, you scan the
  papers in vain for any mention of the computer breakdown no record for
  posterity. The above scenario is my storybut it was happening in
  dozens of places all across the nation. It was 1979 and a new day had quietly
  dawned in America - UNVERIFIABLE, RIGGABLE computerized vote
  tabulation. 
  Ballots for
  BulletsWhen I was small I remember my Dad saying
  how in other countries they would shoot each other to decide the transfer of
  power. In our country it was done by the ballot at election time.
  Millions of American soldiers have fought and bled and died to protect
  your right to free and fair elections; to protect your right to an orderly,
  peaceful transfer of power when the people so will. 
  How Your Parents' Votes Were
  CountedOnce upon a time, Americans voted by Paper
  Ballot. At the end of the day after the polls had closed, neighborhood people,
  Democrats and Republicans, worked together to count the votes in the precinct
  (polling place) BEFORE the votes left that precinct. The count was then posted
  at the precinct polling place for all to see. This is the only way to
  insure a verifiable election. Variations of method are possible, but the
  elements of physical ballots which are counted and posted at the precinct
  before the ballots leave each precinct are essential to insure a fair and
  honest count. To rig an election with the above safeguards built in,
  one would have to bribe many hundreds of neighborhood people, including key
  Democrats and Republicans in each precinct you hoped to rig. Finally, the
  group of people bribed at each precinct would only have access to a tiny
  fraction of the vote. There would be no hope of throwing an election from a
  central location with the push of a button. 
  The Greatest Cover-up
  Begins About 1974 a
  sinister development was in full swing all over the United States. In many
  areas, especially high population regions, the votes were no longer being
  counted in the precincts by neighborhood people. The switch was on to computer
  vote counting systems. Typical was Cincinnati, Oluo where votes were bundled
  up immediately after the polls closed and sent to a mysterious centra computer
  room to be counted by secret computer codes. To add insult to injury, the
  votes were counted away from the watchful eye of the entire electorate and the
  press.Despite the brutal cover up that has been conducted for
  going on date decades by the newsmedia and the major parties to prevent you
  from hearing about this issue, some major media news items have appeared. In a
  rare but superb news story on the eve of the 1988 Presidential election, Dan
  Rather (CBS Evening News) engaged in this exchange with computer expert Howard
  J. Strauss of Princeton University: Rather- "Realistically, could
  the fix be put on in a national election?" Strauss: "Get me a job with
  the company that writes the software for this program. (ed-
  Strauss was referring to the most common computer program in use) Then
  I'd have access to one third of the votes. Is that enough to fix a general
  election?" 
  "A 

Re: [CTRL] Bush Finally Admits DUI Arrest

[Stopforth, Jamie]

Title: RE: [CTRL] Bush Finally Admits DUI Arrest





I think you meant, did he even TRY to rescue her? In which he didn't.




Let's see now...


Did Bush drive his car off a bridge while drunk?


Did a female passenger drown?


Did he fail to recue her?


Since none of these things happened, Bush obviously is totally
worthless.
###


Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom,
must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting
it. - Thomas Paine

[CTRL] Why Israel Hasn't Attacked

[Stopforth, Jamie]

Title: Why Israel Hasn't Attacked





BOMBSHELL ON MICHAEL SAVAGE SHOW!

I just had the opportunity to talk to a man who scared the hell out of me. We will just use his first name. He is James, a physician and a former combat pilot, a major who saw combat duty in Korea and had been shot down a few times. He who helped train Israeli pilots.

James just made a call to the Savage show and the producer left him my number. He was gracious enough to call me. James just got back from a visit to Israel and told Michael on the air and then me off the air things which should worry everyone. His Isreali contacts go as high as brigadier general.

My head is still spinning, but here are some of the highlights:

- Israel was prepared to make a surgical strike WHEN IT RECEIVED A CALL FROM THE WHITE HOUSE AND
ORDERED IT TO STAND DOWN!

- Clinton has threatened to cut off diesel oil if Israel does not follow his directions

- .Six months ago the U.S. was supposed to ship Israel diesel equipment but it was never sent.

- Doctors and scientists are fleeing Israel. This situation is more serious than we have been led to believe.

- young people between 20-26 are leaving Israel en masse

- Arab millionaires are financing a coordinated effort in the Arab states because they see a real chance, thanks to Bill Clinton, to destroy Israel

- African mercenaries have been hired as private guards to protect worshipers at the Wailing Wall

- Arabs are mocking Christian and actually urinating on holy sites

- when people go into an Arab controlled area to plant an olive tree in remembrance of a loved one who died, the tree is actually ripped out of the ground by Arabs after the people leave. James saw that happen.

James is going to appear at Michael Savage's NAME 'EM AND SHAME 'EM event in San Francisco over the weekend. He has a story to tell that needs to be heard. In his opinion, a Gore victory will further encourage Arab terrorists and could lead to the destruction of Israel. The terrorists have felt very empowered with Clinton in office.

These are very dangerous times. James believes that if we moved our carrier group from the Adriatic and demonstrated a show of force, we might be able to stem this dangerous tide. He also has very disturbing info regarding the Cole. Officers who want to tell America things we need to know have been threatened into silence.

God bless you, doctor. If we FReepers have anything to say about it, your voice is going to be heard! Godspeed.

There's More!

* I sent the above to James in a hurry and he added the following in an e-mail:

Dear Doug: The shipment was a major desalinization plant developed by the Navy on former very large super-tanker and which along with other Army portables could provide enough potable and drinkable water for the major cities as well as begin to backup their reservoir supplies,,this was a done deal but cancelled by Clintonthe diesel fired power station is also very vulnerable to terrorist Arab attacks and lies almost on the sea in Tel Aviv,,,their is little or no safeguards to defend this
vital lifeline,,,

I questioned my former Colonel friend he he stated that a POLITICAL DECISION HAD BEEN MADE BY BARAK TO DO THIS SO AS TO CALM THE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL NOT TO WORRY,,,IF THEY SAW TROOPS AND
MILITARY ARMOR,,NEAR THE POWER STATION...THEY MIGHT BEGIN TO LEAVE THE COLUNTRY IN
DROVES. Furthermore, their intelligence sources have determined movement of heavy Arab armor towards Israel and they expect an internal civil war and bomb attacks to occur simultaneously with external breakouts and attacks by other Arab nations across their frontiers..this is why the Israeli Army was poised for s surgical strike and were called down because of a telephone call by Clinton to Barak,,,

They were told they could do nothing without the USA not knowing about it,,,because all their communications equipment was being monitored, and that if they went ahead to do anything,,,that the USA would alert their Arab neighbors,,,In addition, he and other ranking military officers stated that the main problem that they have is water,,,water and water,,and that this is been brought up to Albright time after time,,and to Clinton by Barak OVER THE LAST EIGHT YEARS TO NO AVAILwhy didnt this administration help the Israelis establish other water supplies,,we have done this for every d*mn Arab country in the world as well as in Africa ,,,with countries who murdered our troops,,the time to do something is now,,before the clock runs out on the Israeli people,You are doing a good job,, Kindest personal regards,,JAMES 

Re: [CTRL] Why Israel Hasn't Attacked

[Stopforth, Jamie]

Title: Why Israel Hasn't Attacked




  
In his opinion, a Gore victory will
further encourage Arab terrorists and could lead to the destruction of
Israel. 

good thing too.

too much fucking propaganda on this list-
sooner you americanos elect your choice of puppet the better.





And whythe sooner the
better?

[CTRL] It's War!

[Stopforth, Jamie]

Title: It's War!





http://www.hallindseyoracle.com/war.html


It's War!
October 24, 2000
by Hal Lindsey
A report filed by Jack Kelley of USA Today [but so far unpublished] provides a different picture of what is actually happening in Israel than most of the mainstream reports that make it into America's newspapers.

According to the report, this is what is really happening. Remember, this is an eyewitness account from a professional reporter on the scene. Palestinians are now attacking Israeli soldiers in well-planned and coordinated ambushes. The ambushes are being conducted, not just by street thugs, but also by PA police, civilian ambulance drivers and young boys recruited as cover for the attacks.

The Palestinians aren't just throwing rocks, but have started bringing up heavy artillery, including RPG's, or, hand held rocket propelled grenade launchers. Israeli vehicles are peppered with bullet holes. As one Israeli commander said, they weren't made by BB guns. Palestinian snipers are shooting from rooftops of houses, without the knowledge of the home's occupants. Israeli tanks, firing at the snipers, are blowing up private homes. The occupants blame the Israelis, not knowing about the snipers who deliberately put them in harm's way. Israeli troops have been issued clear rules of engagement.

They have been ordered only to fire rubber bullets when in extreme danger, and are ordered to shoot for the legs of the rioters. Only Israeli snipers in combat with Palestinian snipers are permitted to shoot to kill, and then only after being given the order specifically by commanders on the scene. In one ambush, a group of boys set fire to a pile of tires. After the smoke thickened, a Palestinian with an RPG took aim at an Israeli tank. The smoke cleared just in time for the Israeli snipers to shoot the man with the grenade launcher. Meanwhile, under the cover of the smoke, Palestinian private cars are driving up to the front lines to unload automatic weapons.

As one PA activist told USA Today, We have weapons, resources and people we haven't yet used. What you're seeing now is just the beginning. What the boys have begun, we are now going to finish. In other words, it's open war! 

[CTRL] Child martyrs from Arafat's school

[Stopforth, Jamie]

Title: Child martyrs from Arafat's school 





http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0,,24722,00.html


FROM SAM KILEY IN QALANDIYA REFUGEE CAMP, WEST BANK

STONE-throwing children at the centre of riots on the West Bank and Gaza have received weeks of training in guerrilla warfare, including mock kidnappings, from Yassir Arafat's Fatah movement.
The children, some as young as 11, took a break yesterday from an often deadly game of cat and mouse with heavily armed Israeli soldiers to boast of their exploits on training camps where they were also indoctrinated with ferocious anti-Israeli sentiments.

Over the past four weeks at least 120 Palestinians have been killed by Israelis. About a third of them were boys as young as 12, some among the 25,000 youngsters trained in 90 different Fatah camps earlier this year.

Two young Palestinians were killed in the Gaza Strip and West Bank yesterday. A 16-year-old was shot dead at the Erez Crossing between the Gaza Strip and Israel, killed by a bullet in the stomach. A man of 22 died in a confrontation near the West Bank town of Jenin after being shot in the heart.

Israel has repeatedly accused the Palestinian leadership of the "cynical use of children in the front line" for propaganda purposes and has insisted that they often pose a mortal threat to Israeli soldiers. The revelations that thousands of children were given guerrilla training in the months before the explosion of the "al-Aqsa intifada" reinforces this argument. Human rights groups and the United Nations, however, have condemned Israel for excessive use of force in controlling riots, and for the killing of children in particular.

Asked why they were spending their days darting around the concrete maze of Qalandiya Camp firing catapults and throwing stones at soldiers armed with automatic weapons and rubber bullets, some of the youngsters just shrugged and said: "It's fun".

Hosni Samir Inteir, who turned 12 in September, said: "In France the young don't throw stones, they watch TV and use the Internet because they don't have enemies. Here we have enemies so I throw stones and then work on computers in the evening."

An unusually bright child, he referred to recent complex diplomatic and political developments. Standing out of the rain in the shade of a tin hut he explained that he "read a lot of newspapers".

Such a child should be destined for a bright future, but he says he would be happy never to see his adult years: "I want to die as a martyr. I will be straight to paradise if I do that."

Hosni and his friends had all been to the Fatah camps earlier this year. They were taught how to strip an automatic rifle and had a great time tumbling around assault courses and running through fire. Their camp differed from the sort of course they could have done with British Army cadets only in the hate they were taught to feel and in the ways they were told to express it.

Trapped in the Qalandiya Camp with few employment prospects, they had already grown up on stories of how their ancestors were forced out of their homes by the Jews 52 years ago. In a concrete jungle with no playgrounds, they got their kicks by tormenting Israeli servicemen guarding the Qalandiya airport even before they were recruited by Fatah's youth wing, the Tanzim.

Once there, in the bosom of the Palestine Liberation Organisation, the boys were told: "We're going to make you men".

What they learnt in the camps was how to direct their hate for the Israelis. Since then, they have returned to the streets with their stone age weapons to fight the Israeli Goliath.

But the training the boys have received should not provide a reason for Israeli soldiers to kill them, human rights groups said yesterday. They said the Israeli use of snipers firing live rounds, and the use of plastic-coated steel bullets which resemble musket balls, against children who posed no lethal threat, were particularly bad abuses verging on war crimes.

No matter how irritating they might be or how they have been trained, kids throwing stones should not be shot at all according to the Israeli's own rules, never mind international law, said Carlos Cordone, the leader of an investigation team from Amnesty International in Jerusalem.

Yesterday it was clear that Fatah had prepared its young supporters for conflict but also that they would have rushed to the burning barricades anyway. None of the children said they had been ordered to fight. They admitted they were throwing stones against the express orders of their parents and could expect a hiding if they were found out.

Some told of how they had passed out from a camp near Nablus where they had staged a mock kidnapping of a senior Israeli officer and pretended to kill seven of his body guards.





Jamie Stopforth
Williams Solution Center
x36343
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


[Insert motivational quote or deep thought here.]

Re: [CTRL] [NA] Again: Bush-Cheney Will Win the Computer Count!

[Stopforth, Jamie]

Title: RE: [CTRL] [NA] Again: Bush-Cheney Will Win the Computer Count!





The three prongs of Big Media election manipulation are: Massive coverage=
of favored Candidates, and Censorship of all other candidates -- includi=
ng warped Public Opinion Polls for months before the election; phony exit=
polls done by joint effort of the Big TV NNetworks on Election Day, and =
easily rigged computerized vote counting on election day -- which make th=
e polls and exit polls come true. (On election day, the people are barred=
from touching or counting their ballots, the election officials are barr=
ed from knowing what is in the software program that instructs the comput=
ers how to count the votes.)



 There probably is no software in the machine. It probably serves as a paper-weight during off-election years. 


Jamie

Re: [CTRL] U.S. gives green light to Israeli repression

[Stopforth, Jamie]

Title: RE: [CTRL] U.S. gives  green light  to Israeli  repression





Whatever Two Israelis looked for safety inside a Palestine Police station only to be lynched and tossed out the window... This is just jacked up.. When it comes to reporting anymore, there's only one side of the coin isn't there?


U.S. gives green light to Israeli repression
Palestinian uprising defends sovereignty
By Richard Becker


Provoked by a fascist politician and fired on by occupation troops,
the Palestinian people have launched a new uprising--a new Intifada.
Hundreds of thousands of people have taken to the streets in
virtually every town of the West Bank and Gaza, as well as inside
the 1948 borders of Israel. They have reminded the United States,
Israel and the world that their just demands cannot be ignored or
shunted aside.


By Oct. 4, the Israeli occupation army had reportedly killed 54
Palestinians and wounded more than 1,300 in six days as they fired
indiscriminately into crowds of demonstrating youths. But the
unprecedented use of heavy combat weapons by the U.S.-armed Israeli
Army failed to break the protests.


On the contrary, the demonstrations have grown. More guns have
begun to appear on the Palestinian side, some in the hands of
Palestinian Authority police who have often fought alongside the
demonstrators. A small number of Israelis have been killed in the
fighting, and more than a hundred have been injured.


Heavy sustained fighting has taken place in many cities and towns,
including Nablus, Ramallah, Jerusalem, Hebron and many locations
in Gaza.


On Oct. 2 alone, the Israeli Army shot and killed at least 19
Palestinians, nine of them in predominantly Palestinian cities and
towns such as Uhm Al-Fahm and Nazareth in the Galilee region of
northern Israel. It was the biggest single-day death toll among
Palestinians living inside Israel since 1956.


The uprising by Israeli Arabs, as the U.S. corporate media usually
call them, sent shock waves through Israeli society. Comprising
over 18 percent of the population--1 million people--these Palestinians
supposedly have equality in Israel. In reality, they are treated
like third-class citizens and suffer extreme discrimination, poverty
and unemployment.


Fighting broke out again on Oct. 3 in Jenin, Ramallah, Nablus, Gaza
and elsewhere, just a few hours after a cease-fire agreement was
to have taken effect.


Sharon: Advocate of genocide


The event that triggered the uprising--the most widespread since
the Intifada of 1987-1991--was a provocative visit Sept. 28 by the
Israeli fascist Ariel Sharon to the main Muslim holy site in
Palestinian East Jerusalem. The Al-Aksa and Dome of the Rock mosques
are both located on the Haram al-Sharif (Noble Sanctuary) plaza,
which for many years has been under the administration and security
of Islamic authorities.


Sharon's invasion of the site was okayed in advance by Israeli
authorities. He was escorted into the area by 1,000 Israeli troops.


This was a clear provocation, accentuated by Sharon's brutal record.
Blandly described in most U.S. media as an opposition leader or
as holding hawkish views, Sharon is both an advocate and a
perpetrator of genocide against the Palestinians.


Sharon has long called for Israel's retention of all of occupied
Palestine and the expulsion of the Palestinians. The removal of a
people from their homeland is defined as genocide under international
law.


But Sharon is most hated for his role in the Sabra and Shatila
massacres in Lebanon.


In 1982 Israel, with full backing from Washington, launched a
massive invasion of Lebanon. Its goal was to destroy the Palestine
Liberation Organization and the Lebanese National Movement. Intensive
Israeli bombing killed more than 30,000 Lebanese and Palestinians--mostly
civilians.


During the Israeli occupation of Beirut under Sharon's command,
Lebanese fascists were allowed to enter two Palestinian refugee
camps, Sabra and Shatila, and carry out a mass slaughter of the
inhabitants. More than 2,000 children, women and men were murdered
in three days. The residents of Sabra and Shatila were families
expelled from Palestine in 1948 to make way for the creation of
Israel.


Even an official Israeli tribunal found Sharon responsible for this
atrocity. But the war criminal suffered no punishment for his acts,
and within a few years he was once again a cabinet minister.


In the late 1990s, as part of Benjamin Netanyahu's Likud government,
Sharon was minister of housing. He conducted a massive Israeli
settlement-building program on seized Palestinian lands in the West
Bank.


The appearance of this bloody racist killer in the heart of East
Jerusalem, at one of Islam's most revered sites, did not, and could
not, go unanswered. Hundreds of Palestinians fought back.


The next day, Sept. 29, was a Friday, and an estimated 20,000 people
came to Haram al-Sharif for prayers. They found 2,000 Israeli troops
surrounding the area.


This new provocation proved 

Re: [CTRL] utanews: Security on Cable and DSL...

[Stopforth, Jamie]

Title: RE: [CTRL] utanews: Security on Cable and  DSL...





Control panel, network, file and print sharing. DISABLED.


Computer jargon it may be, but those are the exact terms Windows uses...


-Original Message-
From: Deborah Greenhill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2000 2:31 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [CTRL] utanews: Security on Cable and DSL...



-Caveat Lector-


Blessings,
You are obviously privy to some dark computer secrets. However, you will
never make folks like myself understand what you are saying, by using
computer jargon. I am unable to take your printed email and go into my
computer and 'fix' the leaks, because I don't understand your apparent
hinting and technical jargon.


Can you explain this stuff so folks like myself can benefit?


Dr. Deborah J. Greenhill, CNMA
Micronesia
- Original Message -
From: Eric Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2000 3:46 AM
Subject: [CTRL] utanews: Security on Cable and DSL...



 -Caveat Lector-

 Original Message Follows
 From: Don Carnage [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: utanews: Security on Cable and DSL...
 Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 15:51:16 -

 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

 ...

 However, there are some simple ways to make your broadband connection
 a little bit less like swiss cheese:

 1) Disable file sharing and remote login - Running Windows? Take a
 look for any folder or file with that little hand icon, and un-share
 them. Even better, just go into Control Panel - Network and shut it
 off completely. Don't think passwords on your shares will help you,
 as a recent bug was discovered in Win9X share-level password
 protection where a one-byte character string can be used to bypass a
 protected share should that byte happen to match the first byte of
 the actual password. If you're on Linux/*BSD, for the love of Bob
 shut off NFS, ftpd, telnetd, Apache, and the like until you know what
 you're doing! Can you say backdoor? Even experienced admins leave
 the occasional hole, and default installs aren't often known for
 being secure (OpenBSD people, stuff it while I make a point for
 everyone else:).

 2) Don't let anything run automatically - Java and ActiveX in IE and
 Netscape installing and running automagically? Kill it. Auto-DCC in
 IRC clients? Un-auto it. Run attachments on preview in Outlook, or
 run macros in Word documents? You know the drill. Don't let a damn
 thing run automatically unless you actually know what's taking place.
 If I ever see LIFE-STAGES.TXT offered to me by DCC again, I'm going
 to reach through the monitor and shove a virus scanner up the patoot
 of the victim. The world doesn't need another Melissa or backdoor
 being passed around just by opening an e-mail in a brain-dead-by-
 default program.

 3) Check for patches and follow directions - MS didn't tell people to
 change their Outlook settings while it took them a month to patch the
 program in the wake of ILOVEYOU because it was fun for everyone. Red
 Hat isn't releasing megs of updates for Red Hat 7 so you can sit
 there and kvetch about buggy .0 releases. You don't think the latest
 macro virus craze can get you? Think again, spam-boy; why do you
 think Unix/Linux vendors have been going batshit looking for format
 string holes in their software offerings? The exploits may be merely
 theoretical, but it's best to close them up before the theoretical
 becomes practical (with apologies to the L0pht).

 4) Extra steps if you're really careful and/or paranoid - Old
 486: $50. Geek on a caffeine high: $5, $0 if s/he's already jacked on
 coffee. OpenBSD or Slackware burned on a CD: $0. A kickass firewall to
 confound the kiddiez with the latest 'sploits and nmap: priceless.

 5) Ignore the DSL/cable pissing contest - Nothing to see here, move
 along...

 I'm glad to say most cable installers where I live have a brain, and
 hence make sure filesharing is turned off in Win9x when they set up
 your system. Linux/BSD geeks usually have to take matters into their
 own hands, but most usually know enough to at least kill nfsd and
 ftpd if they're not going to be used. (Incidentally, this is also why
 Red Hat and others need to stop enabling every conceivable service by
 default.)

 Closing your box off to kiddies is acutallly pretty easy. However,
 back-patting fluff like this Excite dropping does way more harm than
 good by instilling that false sense of security that leads people to
 think its OK to let attachments run automatically, or leave all those
 services running on their new Mandrake box. Hard advice is better
 than press releases and misrepresenting technologies as security
 measures.


 http://www.slip.net/~knabb/index1.htm
 _
 Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

 

Re: [CTRL] utanews: Security on Cable and DSL...

[Stopforth, Jamie]

Title: RE: [CTRL] utanews: Security on Cable and DSL...



LOL,
those aren't my remarks... Eric Stewart was the original sender of the email but
they weren't his statements either... I was simply summing up the major
concern with this whole DSL/Cable issue... If you disable File and Print
sharing, that's a good place to start.

Jamie

  -Original Message-From: Deborah Greenhill
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2000 3:24
  PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [CTRL] utanews:
  Security on Cable and DSL...
  What about your statements:
  "Back-patting fluff like this Excite dropping
  does way more harm that good." I don't have a clue
  as to the point you are making here.
  
  "Ignore the DSL/cable pissing
  contest-..." I wasn't aware that I could require a computer
  to get a urine sample.
  
  "Think again, spam-boy; why do you think
  Unix/Linux vendors have been going batshit looking for format string
  holes..." I thought you had misspelled someone's name, but
  apparently whomever these corporations are, they represent problems for us
  average folks.
  
  Any other assistance in breaking down this
  confusing transmission would do wonders for this doctor. You will note
  that medicine has its own 'jargon', and I have kept it to a minimum so that
  you can understand what I am saying.
  
  Dr. Deborah
  
- Original Message ----- 
From:
Stopforth, Jamie 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2000 6:35
AM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] utanews: Security
on Cable and DSL...

Control panel, network, file and print sharing.
DISABLED. 
Computer jargon it may be, but those are the exact terms
Windows uses... 
-Original Message- From:
Deborah Greenhill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2000 2:31 PM To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [CTRL] utanews: Security on Cable and
DSL... 
-Caveat Lector- 
Blessings, You are obviously privy
to some dark computer secrets. However, you will never make folks like myself understand what you are saying, by
using computer jargon. I am unable to take
your printed email and go into my computer and 'fix'
the leaks, because I don't understand your apparent hinting and technical jargon. 
Can you explain this stuff so folks like myself can
benefit? 
Dr. Deborah J. Greenhill, CNMA Micronesia - Original Message
- From: "Eric Stewart"
[EMAIL PROTECTED] To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday,
October 26, 2000 3:46 AM Subject: [CTRL] utanews:
Security on Cable and DSL... 
 -Caveat Lector- 
 Original Message Follows  From: "Don Carnage" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Subject:
utanews: Security on Cable and DSL... 
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 15:51:16 - 

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
  ...   However, there are some simple ways
to make your broadband connection  a little bit
less like swiss cheese:   1) Disable file sharing and remote login - Running Windows? Take
a  look for any folder or file with that little
hand icon, and un-share  them. Even better, just
go into Control Panel - Network and shut it 
off completely. Don't think passwords on your shares will help you,
 as a recent bug was discovered in Win9X share-level
password  protection where a one-byte character
string can be used to bypass a  protected share
should that byte happen to match the first byte of  the actual password. If you're on Linux/*BSD, for the love of
Bob  shut off NFS, ftpd, telnetd, Apache, and
the like until you know what  you're doing! Can
you say "backdoor"? Even experienced admins leave  the occasional hole, and default installs aren't often known
for  being secure (OpenBSD people, stuff it
while I make a point for  everyone
else:).   2) Don't
let anything run automatically - Java and ActiveX in IE and  Netscape installing and running automagically? Kill it. Auto-DCC
in  IRC clients? Un-auto it. Run attachments on
preview in Outlook, or  run macros in Word
documents? You know the drill. Don't let a damn 
thing run automatically unless you actually know what's taking place.
 If I ever see LIFE-STAGES.TXT offered to me by DCC
again, I'm going  to reach through the monitor
and shove a virus scanner up the patoot  of the
victim. The world doesn't need another Melissa or backdoor  being passed around just by opening an e-mail in a
brain-dead-by-  default program.
  3) Check for patches and
follow directions - MS didn't tell people to 
change their Outlook settings while it took them a month to patch the
 program in the wake of ILOVEYOU because it was fun for
everyone. Red  Hat isn't releasing megs of
upda

Re: [CTRL] Sticks And Stones Vs. Bullets

[Stopforth, Jamie]

Title: RE: [CTRL] Sticks And Stones Vs. Bullets





But then again, the Arabs can attack Israel, and Arafat can tell Barak to go to hell... Yeah, the Arabs are the nice guys aren't they? I mean blowing a suicidal hole in a military ship is nice isn't it... Yeah, nice people they are. It's not their fault Arafat is a known terrorist, he's a nice fella... I'm sure we can trust anything he says according to the peace process. 

Jamie






Israelis condemn language of threat as troops kill four
BY JACQUI GODDARD
FOREIGN EDITOR
http://www.lineone.net/express/
ISRAELI Prime Minister Ehud Barak threw in the towel on the peace process on
Sunday, blaming Arab leaders for speaking the language of threats as his
troops shot dead four more people.


While Palestinians condemned the emergency Arab League summit in Cairo for
going soft on Barak, declaring it a whimper rather than a bang for its
failure to take decisive punitive action against Israel, the Prime Minister
complained that the meeting had been too heavy on the rhetoric.


The summit's declaration of support for the Palestinian uprising and refusal
to reign- in violence merited a time-out on the peace, he said.


Meanwhile, his soldiers killed another four Palestinians yesterday, including
a 14-year-old stone-thrower. The killings brought the death toll in 25 days
of violence to 122, all but eight of the victims Arabs.


But Barak blamed the Palestinians, saying: Israel totally rejects the
language of threats that came out of the summit and condemns the call, folded
into the decisions, for continued violence.


We will continue to view peace ... as the eventual goal, but not a peace
that is achieved at any price while surrendering to violence. In an official
statement, Barak was quoted as telling his cabinet that he was suspending the
peace process started under the Oslo accord of 1993.


We will have to take a time-out, whose purpose is to re-assess the peace
process in response to the events of recent weeks, he stated.


Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat said Barak's move came as no surprise.


I expected this from him, he shrugged. It's not the first time.


As the language of diplomacy crumbled, he reaffirmed his quest for a
Palestinian state with Jerusalem as its capital, adding that if Barak didn't
like the idea, he could go to hell.


Amid a continuing war of attrition, a propaganda war was raging, too. Posters
appeared around the occupied territories showing a photograph of Barak in his
earlier career as a member of an elite military unit, bending over the
bloodied body of a dead Palestinian.


In the occupied territories the bloodshed continued unabated.


Among those killed by Israeli gunfire was 14-year-old Wael Mahmoud, who
witnesses said was one of 300 schoolchildren to hurl rocks at an army post in
the Gaza Strip.


My son was a man who defended Jerusalem and I am ready to sacrifice more,
said the boy's defiant father Imad, 52, who has nine other sons and eight
daughters. At least he died with a stone in his fist.


In Cairo, the Arab summit closed after two days of fierce words but little
action. Stopping short of severing ties with Israel, Arab leaders
nevertheless threatened it and gave their backing to the Palestinian
uprising.


It stated: The pure blood of the martyrs is a precious foundation for the
liberation of land, establishment of the state and achievement of peace. The
summit welcomes the Intifada of the Palestinian people in the occupied
territories which has expressed clearly the bitterness and frustration after
long years of waiting and anticipation.


The Arab leaders hold Israel responsible for returning the region to an
atmosphere of tension and violence due to its practices, aggression and
complete siege of the Palestinian people, in violation of its obligations
under the fourth Geneva Convention of 1949 ... and for dealing lightly with
the issue of Jerusalem in a way that pleases its desire for irresponsible
showing-off and deliberate provocation built on racism.


The Israeli government at first commended the summit's outcome as a victory
of wisdom, praising Arab leaders for not succumbing to militant demands for
the severing of all ties with Israel.


Hours later, however, Barak changed his mind.


Across the Middle East, the Arab League was denounced for what many saw as
weaselwords which failed to go far enough. Militant group Hamas said the
declaration wasn't worth the ink it was written in.


And in Egypt, thousands of students staged demonstrations, urging Arab
leaders to boycott Israeli and American products and to cut all ties with
Israel.Rulers of countries, open the door for holy war, they chanted.
© Express Newspapers, 2000


A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance-not soap-boxing-please! These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'-with its many half-truths, 

Re: [CTRL] Israeli troops injured (satire alert)

[Stopforth, Jamie]

Title: RE: [CTRL] Israeli troops injured  (satire alert)





Yeah, it's all the Israeli's fault isn't it...??? Geez.


-Original Message-
From: Mark McHugh [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 1:18 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [CTRL] Israeli troops injured (satire alert)



-Caveat Lector-


http://www.bushoncrack.com/
Israeli Troops Injured
By Tom Rainey


Jerusalem, Oct. 5--Israeli officials agreed today to withdraw heavy
armaments from the West Bank and Gaza after troops complained of
paint chips on their armored personnel carriers caused by rocks
thrown by Palestinians. With 60 Palestinians killed by Israeli
soldiers in the last five days, Israeli officials denied excessive
use of force, citing the heavy toll upon their side as well. In the
West Bank town of Beituniya, officials reported that Israeli army
medics were busy treating severe blisters on the trigger fingers
of many Israeli soldiers. Those anti tank rockets we're firing at
the ambulances really hurt your ears. reported one member of the
Israeli Defense forces. I hold the Palestinians directly
responsible for my headache.


A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance-not soap-boxing-please! These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'-with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds-is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.


Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html
A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.htmlArchives of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]/A


http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ctrl/A

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Om

Re: [CTRL] shutting the internet down

[Stopforth, Jamie]

Title: RE: [CTRL] shutting the internet down





Wow, this was a good report... Interesting idea to ponder for sure.


-Original Message-
From: J Taylor [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 12:08 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [CTRL] shutting the internet down



-Caveat Lector-



 http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit2713.html

 Meet Eater
 The FBI's Plan for Digital Wiretaps Raises More Questions Than
 It Answers

 By Robert X. Cringely

 There is this moment toward the otherwise forgettable end of
 Star Trek V: The Final Frontier when this alien creature
 patterned after the Wizard of Oz has even Spock convinced that
 it is God with a capital G. They are just about to fire-up
 the Enterprise and take God back to Earth when Kirk --
 probably hoping to avoid the military protocol involved with
 having a deity on the bridge -- asks a pivotal question: Why
 would God need a starship? Couldn't God just blink and
 instantly be in Times Square looking up at the NASDAQ sign,
 wondering why they cut windows into a video screen?

 This scene of the skeptical Kirk flashed in my mind this week
 as I read about Carnivore, the FBI's system for reading the
 e-mail of bad guys. Carnivore is a sealed box that is
 installed at the network operations center of an Internet
 Service Provider. It filters packets, finds e-mail going to
 and from identified criminals, and saves that e-mail for later
 decryption and analysis. What bothers the Internet Service
 Providers is they have no control over the Carnivore box, and
 no way of protecting the privacy of all the customers who
 aren't drug lords or escaped felons. What bothers the American
 Civil Liberties Union is the likelihood that individuals will
 not only lose their right to privacy, but lose it in a new and
 insidious way.

 What bothers me is the damned box. Why would the FBI need a
 box? Here's all the FBI will say about Carnivore. It sits on
 the network at the ISP, is PC-based, is a kind of a sniffer,
 identifies and saves packets associated with suspected
 criminals, is installed under a court order, and doesn't
 itself act as a decryption device. There are supposed to be
 around 20 Carnivore boxes, and they have been in use since
 early this year. You don't need a sealed box to do any of
 these tasks, most of which are already being done for
 completely legal reasons right inside the router at every ISP.
 Routers look at every packet, determine what type of packet it
 is, where it is coming from and where it is going to, then the
 router delivers the packet to its intended destination. This
 is what routers do. Adding the Carnivore task is a simple
 matter of blind copying every packet to or from a bad guy to a
 third address at the J. Edgar Hoover FBI Building in
 Washington, DC. It's at most a few lines of code and requires
 no additional hardware.

 So why the box?

 The probable reason is because cops like to be in control.
 They LIKE boxes, like delivering them in unmarked cars, like
 the satisfying click of the RJ-45 connector as it slides home.
 Maybe they don't know that it could all be done without a box.
 Heck, it IS being done without a box all the time, and that's
 where the ACLU is missing the point. Sniffers have been
 running on networks ever since Harry Saal invented the device.
 Every packet at every ISP already goes through a sniffer at
 least part of the time. An ISP could do at any time what we
 fear the FBI might do with Carnivore read the e-mail and
 follow the surfing habits of every pretty blonde customer.
 Good ISPs, which is to say nearly all ISPs don't do this, of
 course, but it happens.

 So why doesn't the FBI just get a court order making the ISP
 do the dirty work? That's what the ISPs wonder, too,
 especially since that's how phone taps are handled. Cops don't
 really climb poles and attach alligator clips to hear phone
 calls. That's all done at the central office by telephone
 company technicians.

 The FBI, through the use of Carnivore, is trying to grab a
 little more power. And by doing it themselves with Carnivore,
 the FBI doesn't have to reveal the identity of the bad guy or
 extent to which it is using the box. Yeah, right.

 But wait, it gets worse. There are aspects of this case that
 the ACLU hasn't even considered. The Carnivore boxes are
 what's called co-located at the ISP. This isn't a rare
 thing. Many organizations like to control their own Web or
 mail servers and so co-locate them at an ISP. Colocation puts
 your server closer to the Internet backbone, eliminates
 typical T-1 line costs, allows the ISP to monitor and reboot
 the server, and usually comes with nifty things like redundant
 backbone connections and diesel generators in case the power
 goes out. Companies in the co-location business include
 well-known names like ATT, IBM, and Intel. So there are tens
 of thousands -- maybe hundreds of thousands -- of computers
 already installed just like the FBI 

[CTRL] Isreal vs. Palestine Go Israel!

[Stopforth, Jamie]

Title: Isreal vs. Palestine  Go Israel!





Hal Lindsey
© 2000 WorldNetDaily.com

The considerable outrage being expressed by the uninformed on the daily talk shows is getting plenty of attention. Everyone, it seems, feels that the Palestinians are the injured party in the current explosion of violence.

For those blinded by the current wave of misplaced political correctness, it would be hard to imagine a scenario in which Palestinians might seek protection in an Israeli police station and be turned over to a waiting Jewish mob to be brutally beaten to death. Yet, in the Ramallah situation, two Israelis did exactly that -- they sought protection and refuge from the Palestinian police. Instead of protection, the police looked the other way as the mob seized the two Israeli reservists, stabbed them repeatedly and threw at least one of the soldiers out a second floor window into the arms of the waiting mob.

The scenes were horrific, yet in some people's minds, justified, since the plight of the Palestinians is hopeless -- victims of Israeli oppression -- economically, politically and socially. What nobody seems to understand is that the Palestinian people have their own government to blame.

Yasser Arafat and his cronies live in fine villas, drive expensive German automobiles, wear Armani suits to the various summit meetings, and wax eloquently about the plight of their oppressed constituency at Israeli hands. It is quite a contrast to the image projected by the Israeli negotiating teams who arrive in four-door Chevys wearing suits with shiny elbows and fraying shirt collars. And none of the Israeli leaders live in Mediterranean villas. Who's the oppressor here?

Two days after the murder of the two Israeli soldiers at the hands of a blood-crazed mob, Palestinian state TV broadcast the comments of a Muslim cleric. The cleric exhorted his flock to kill the Jews and to kill the Americans, wherever they may be found. This is the true nature of the Israeli peace partnership as envisioned by Yasser Arafat. Again, the question: who is the oppressor, here?

Palestinians who hold Israeli citizenship do not share the hopeless condition of their brothers living under the tender mercies of the Arafat government. Indeed, life for an Israeli Arab is so much better than for their Palestinian counterparts that a majority of Arabs in a recent poll indicated that, given the choice between
living under an Arab administration or under Israeli rule, they would prefer the Israeli brand of oppression.

The Arab position appears to be that it's all Israel's fault because they are using bullets to respond to rocks. But nobody, not even the most articulate apologists for the Arab side, has any reasonable alternative to suggest. Should the Israelis throw rocks back? Or maybe they should just go home? Yasser Arafat, at the summit on Monday, insisted the Israelis withdraw first, and then the violence would stop. Who in their right mind is going to believe that, given the number of broken promises charged to his account in just the last three weeks?

Any argument that advances the case that the Israelis are to blame for the violence in the Middle East ignores the salient truth that it is the Palestinians who are behind the unrest -- not the Israelis. If the Palestinians stopped throwing rocks, the IDF would go home. Simple. The PA claims it has legitimate reasons for the violence. Fine. Then why deny that they are the authors of the violence in the first place? Ehud Barak offered a settlement more generous than anybody ever expected. He offered them all that they demanded, including the division of Jerusalem. His offer was so generous that, had it been accepted, it is unlikely Barak could have survived politically anyway. But still it was rejected out of hand. Yasser Arafat is a man who can't take yes for an answer.

Anybody with one eye and half a brain can see that the moment the rocks stop flying, so will the bullets. Yet, in order to accept the oppressor argument, one must pretend that the violence just happened and that it is Israel who is keeping it alive by shooting the rioting Palestinians. Just what do you think would happen if the Palestinians stopped rioting? Does anybody seriously believe that the Israelis would just keep shooting them without provocation? The media would have you believe that the Israelis are in control of the violence and that they should stop. How does one quell a riot by ignoring it? And how does one not quell a riot?

The situation remains in the hands of the only one who could have ended the violence -- Yasser Arafat. Sadly, his desperate, last-ditch effort to create an image of himself and his government as victims of an oppressive Israeli government ended as quickly as the lives of those unfortunate Israeli soldiers. He's created a bloodlust among his people that even he can no longer control. In 1993, Yitzhak Rabin was reluctant to shake Arafat's bloodstained hand, but did so out of love for 

[CTRL] Our Social Security

[Stopforth, Jamie]

Title: Our Social Security





Subject: Our Social Security

Subject: Fwd: Our Social Security? READ THIS

Thought all of you would like this -- We normally don't forward emails but
we did think this is so true. This election is going to critical.
PASS THIS ON TILL IT REACHES EVERYONE BY ELECTION TIME
Our Senators and Congressmen don't pay in to Social Security, and, of course, they don't collect from it. The reason is that they have a special retirement plan that they voted for themselves many years ago. For all practical purposes, it works like this: When they retire, they continue to draw their same pay, until they die, except that it may be increased from time to time, by cost ofliving adjustments. For instance, former Senator Bradley, and his wife, may be expected to draw $7,900,000, with Mrs. Bradley drawing $275,000 during the last year of her life. This is calculated on an average life span for each. This would be well and good, except that they paid nothing in on any kind of retirement, and neither does any other Senator or Congressman. This fine retirement comes right out of the General Fund: our tax money. While we who pay for it all, draw an average of $1000/month from Social Security! ! . Imagine for a moment that you could structure a retirement plan so desirable that people would have extra deducted so that they could increase their own personal retirement income. A retirement plan that works so well, that Railroad employees, Postal Workers, and others who aren't in it, would clamor to get in. That is how good Social Security could be, if only one small change were made. That change is to jerk the Golden Fleece retirement out from under the Senators and Congressmen, and put them in Social Security with the rest of us. Then watch how fast they fix it. If enough people receive this, maybe one or some of them along the way, might be able to help. How many can YOU send 

Re: [CTRL] NTSB: Pilot disorientation led to fatal JFK Jr. crash

[Stopforth, Jamie]

What a load of crap!  :)

Jamie





NTSB: Pilot disorientation led to fatal JFK Jr. crash

July 6, 2000
Web posted at: 12:02 p.m. EDT (1602 GMT)

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Nearly a year after John F. Kennedy Jr.'s plane spiraled
into the ocean, killing him, his wife and her sister, a report by federal
investigators released Thursday concludes that the son of the late president
became disoriented in the night sky and lost control of the aircraft.

The National Transportation Safety Board blamed the accident on "the pilot's
failure to maintain control of the airplane" in the July 16, 1999, crash off
the island of Martha's Vineyard, Massachusetts.

The board blames the crash on "spatial disorientation,'' confusion in the
brain that results from a loss of balance in the inner ear.

The report also says that federal investigators found no mechanical problems
with Kennedy's Piper Saratoga II, and that an examination of all three
victims found no abnormalities.

Killed were Kennedy, 38; his wife, Carolyn Bessette Kennedy, 33, and her
34-year-old sister, Lauren Bessette.

Contributing to Kennedy's disorientation, the report said, were the night
sky, a lack of visible horizon over the open water and a haze that blanketed
Kennedy's flight path from New Jersey over Long Island Sound to the
Vineyard.

While the weather that night met the criteria for legal flight under visual
flight rules, a pilot who doesn't have visual references may have difficulty
determining whether the plane is climbing, descending or in a turn.

Typically, pilots in trouble are taught to ignore physical sensations and
instead follow a recovery regime that includes focusing on key navigation
equipment.

In April 1998, Kennedy received his private pilot's license, which allowed
him to fly both day and night but only in good visibility.

He had accumulated more than 300 hours of flight time and was working on
obtaining an instrument rating, but had not completed the training. Without
the ability to fly solely by reference to instruments, pilots often lose
control of their aircraft, sometimes within seconds.

Kennedy, the namesake and son of the nation's 35th president, and his wife
had been planning to drop off her sister before flying on to Cape Cod,
Massachusetts, for a family wedding the following day.

Instead, their plane mysteriously plunged out of the sky.

After an intensive search by the U.S. Coast Guard, Navy and National
Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration, the plane's fuselage -- its
passengers still strapped inside -- was found July 21 less than eight miles
off the southwestern tip of Martha's Vineyard.

No flight plan had been filed for the journey, which originated from Essex
County Airport in Caldwell, New Jersey.

CNN Correspondent Carl Rochelle and The Associated Press contributed to this
report.




 Excerpts from NTSB report:

"Probable cause: The pilot's failure to maintain control of the airplane
during a descent over water at night, which was a result of spatial
disorientation. Factors in the accident were haze, and the dark night."

"The airplane's rate of descent eventually exceeded 4,700 feet per minute,
and the airplane struck the water in a nose-down attitude."

"The pilot and passengers died from multiple injuries as a result of an
airplane accident. Toxicological tests were negative for alcohol and drugs
of abuse."

Sec. 107. Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use

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particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include -

(1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a
commercial nature or is for nonprofit
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(2) the nature of the copyrighted work;
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A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing
propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance-not soap-boxing-please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'-with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds-is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to 

Re: [CTRL] NTSB: Pilot disorientation led to fatal JFK Jr. crash

[Stopforth, Jamie]

  How convenient,  Mr JFK Jr, whom may have been running against Hillary for
the New York senate seat dies...  How convenient, he was working on an
investigative report about Janet Reno to publish in his magazine George...
How convenient we look at the deaths of the JFK's who've had any interest
politics end up dead by foul play but don't look at this one in the same
light... Yeah, it's all coincidence. Right?  Mr. Clinton just had to get a
federal search crew to find the wreckage... Why? He was a civilian like you
and I.  Was there something to hide?  "Federal investigators?"  There's your
first flag of suspicion.   I'll forward some past articles on this topic to
the list...

Jamie

-Original Message-
From: MICHAEL SPITZER [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 8:06 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [CTRL] NTSB: Pilot disorientation led to fatal JFK Jr.
crash


On Fri, 7 Jul 2000, Stopforth, Jamie wrote:

 What a load of crap!  :)

 Jamie



Hi Jamie:)

Do you think you might-could take it point-by-point, and tell us
how/why it is "a load of crap!?"

I mean, I happen to tend the same opinion, but the ppl I will be
talking to would crucify me if I were to simply say to any of
them, "what a load of crap!"  No what I mean, bro?

And, thanks:)

Best,

Mike




 NTSB: Pilot disorientation led to fatal JFK Jr. crash

 July 6, 2000
 Web posted at: 12:02 p.m. EDT (1602 GMT)

 WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Nearly a year after John F. Kennedy Jr.'s
 plane spiraled into the ocean, killing him, his wife and her
 sister, a report by federal investigators released Thursday
 concludes that the son of the late president became
 disoriented in the night sky and lost control of the
 aircraft.

 The National Transportation Safety Board blamed the accident
 on "the pilot's failure to maintain control of the airplane"
 in the July 16, 1999, crash off the island of Martha's
 Vineyard, Massachusetts.

=
 Kadosh, Kadosh, Kadosh, YHVH, TZEVAOT

  FROM THE DESK OF:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  *Mike Spitzer* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]

   The Best Way To Destroy Enemies Is To Change Them To Friends
   Shalom, A Salaam Aleikum, and to all, A Good Day.
=

A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing
propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance-not soap-boxing-please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'-with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds-is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

[CTRL] FW: JFK JR.'S FINAL FLIGHT--BLASTED OUT OF THE SKY

[Stopforth, Jamie]

Just like the reporting of Ronn Brown's crash, I read that the early reports

(and the official meteorological records) show that the weather was clear
and, later, after at least one Time magazine article was spiked, the media
changed the story to say that the weather was stormy -- complete BS. Check
it
yourself.  Of course, they never reported the bullet through Brown's head
either but ... details, details.

-Sr

P.S. The Ronn Brown story was sent through [[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
a
few months ago  it might still be on their web site - three parts, as I
recall. Try
A
HREF="http://www.egroups.com/group/mediagatesolutions"http://www.egroups.co
m/
group/mediagatesolutions/A

JFK JR.'S FINAL FLIGHT--BLASTED OUT OF THE SKY

Copyright © 1999 NewsHawk Inc., All Rights Reserved
(Rights of UNALTERED reproduction/distribution hereby waived.)

The initial news reports about the disappearance of John Kennedy Jr.'s plane

and passengers stated that Kennedy's flight path was eastward along Long
Island.

Now all accounts describe Kennedy's flight path as having been substantially

farther north, along the Connecticut shoreline. ON THIS ISSUE ONLY it does
seem in fact as if this later information is probably correct: indications
are that JFK Jr. changed his route due to his awareness of undoubtedly
"hostile" surveillance.

In case anybody has forgotten, ALL early news reports described weather
conditions as near ideal, with a slight haze and NO fog, mist or other
vision-obscuring conditions. I have confirmed this as fact from local
sources
on eastern Long Island and Martha's Vineyard.

NOW, all news reports indicate that weather conditions over eastern Long
Island, Long Island Sound, Block Island Sound and Martha's Vineyard were
SIGNIFICANTLY worse than originally reported. These later reports of weather

conditions are utter, absolute, unadulterated BULLSHIT.

By Monday July 19th, EVERY major TV network in the country trotted out
"expert" after "expert" all day and all evening long , who to a one
described
in almost the exact same terminology how an "inexperienced" pilot like
Kennedy would have had major problems with orientation, direction and
trajectory due to the extremely thick haze over the entire area. One would
have thought these puppets were reading from the same script.

These statements are LIES! Such were NOT the conditions at the time of the
disaster, and what's more every single person who had any occasion to
witness
JFK Jr.'s flying skills, including EVERY INSTRUCTOR he ever had, described
him as an EXTREMELY careful, cautious pilot who NEVER took risks. Kennedy
had
amassed a great number of hours piloting aircraft and one of his instructors

noted that Kennedy was probably proficient enough to have qualified for a
COMMERCIAL PILOT'S LICENSE!

These same armchair pundits gave uniformly negative, highly critical
assessments of Kennedy's abilities as a pilot, along with longwinded,
thoroughly unintelligible (and I DO speak English!) explanations of how this

non-existent (in this case) pea-soup haze commonly causes such completely
unqualified pilots to become totally disoriented and and to fly their craft
headlong into the ground, or ocean, as the case may be.

I don't know what drugs these guys take when flying but I have been in many
airplanes and have NEVER mistaken "down" for "up".

GIVE US A BREAK FROM THESE EXTRAORDINARY LIES!

Not ONE of these clowns gave an explanation of these nonexistent external
conditions and how they can cause a pilot to become disoriented, confused
and
physically unbalanced that was even REMOTELY logical, sensible or
UNDERSTANDABLE. Complete and utter gobbledygook.

And again, such does NOT correlate with the conditions in this area at the
time of the flight nor the condition of the pilot.

Furthermore, Kennedy was anything BUT an inexperienced, daredevil, reckless
pilot. I quote here DIRECTLY from one of Kennedy's flight instructors,
Arthur
Marx, of Martha's Vineyard. "The last time I flew with him was a year ago,
and I definitely did not see the kind of person who took unnecessary risks.
If anything, (he was) under-confident," said Marx.

In support of this assessment of Kennedy's abilities and safety-mindedness,
The Toronto Star reported Sunday that Kennedy used a co-pilot when he flew
to
that Canadian city earlier this month: Kennedy had felt the need to fly with

a co-pilot since breaking his ankle in a paraglider crash three weeks
earlier, and he had told acquaintances he was happy to fly solo again after
having a cast removed from his ankle the day before last Friday's flight.

It is now established Kennedy was NOT wearing a foot cast as in weeks
preceding the disaster--it came off the day before the fatal flight.

In case anyone hasn't noticed, ALL early news reports made note of the fact
that Kennedy RADIOED the Martha's Vineyard airport at 9:39, and made NO
MENTION whatsoever of any kind of difficulty whatsoever. This contact is
100%
VERIFIED!

Yet radar returns from 

[CTRL] FW: To Pres. Congress re: JFK Jr MURDER

[Stopforth, Jamie]

Hi--
This is the letter we are emailing to the president, vice-perpetrator and
all members of Congress today, July 26, 1999.

Unlike situations such as the downing of TWA Fl. 800 going all the way
back to the murder of PRESIDENT John F. Kennedy, THIS TIME, there IS a
BURNING HOT "SMOKING GUN".

We MUST use this fact to the FORCE THE ISSUE NOW!

Feel free to use this in your own emailings.

This same exact letter can be used as an OPEN LETTER to the Pres.
vice-perp and that bunch in Congress by emailing it to ALL RECIPIENTS on
the mass media email list--included again by NewsHawk at the very end of
THIS email.


Best Wishes,
John Quinn


***
===
Mr. President, Vice President, All Members of Congress--

It is increasingly clear John F. Kennedy Jr. was MURDERED. Please
publicly address the contents of this FBI preliminary report
(enclosed) and other evidence presented herein immediately..

We DEMAND an immediate investigation by all relevant branches of
government into ANY and ALL ASPECTS of this most outrageous and
extraordinary situation.

Rest assured this issue will NEVER GO AWAY.


AN AMERICAN

===
This email contains a number of articles. Scroll down to retrieve ALL
INFORMATION.

NewsHawk INC
===
http://www.sightings.com/politics4/blasted.htm

WORLD EXCLUSIVE

SIGHTINGS


WORLD EXCLUSIVE
FBI Document: BOMB BLASTED
JFK's PLANE Says Skolnick
By Sherman Skolnick [EMAIL PROTECTED] 7-25-99



NOTE - Sherman Skolnick will be Jeff's Guest at 8 pm Pacific tonight


What Happened to America's Golden Boy - Pt 4


By Sherman Skolnick [EMAIL PROTECTED] 7-25-99

Excerpts from FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION PRELIMINARY REPORT ON THE
RECOVERY OF PIPER SARATOGA AIRCRAFT OF JOHN F. KENNEDY, Jr.


1. No declassification until 7/22/2029.


2. This is in deference to the wishes of a senior member of the Kennedy
family.

3. Also in deference to the order of the national government and in
respect to certain foreign intelligence agencies having reciprocal
agreements with the U.S.


4. POTUS order and national security findings attached.


5. The recovered aircraft shows evidence of an explosive device having
been glued or affixed within the tail luggage compartment.


6. Device was apparently actuated by a barometric trigger. Radio signals
not ruled out.

7. Tail of aircraft was dismembered from the plane making it front heavy.


8. Study of radar shows the plane fell in excess of 6,000 feet per
minute up to radar cutoff.

9. Satellite images supplied by the National Reconnaissance Office
record an outbursting flash from the aircraft just prior to it going
into perpendicular descent.

10. Tail structure was dismembered just prior to descent.


11. Recovery of a piece of luggage from beyond the flight path of the
aircraft correlates with it being hurtled out of the tail luggage
compartment at outburst.


12. Preliminary examination of the aircraft shows residue of an
explosive device the Laboratory identifies as being the type used by
certain foreign intelligence agencies. Refer to POTUS order and findings.


13. Study of Air Traffic Control and other radio signals shows no Mayday
report from the aircraft, explained by rapidity of descent.


14. Investigation and examination has been strictly compartmentalized.


15. A short, perfunctory examination of the recovered bodies was
completed. Examination revealed that Carolyn Bessette Kennedy was in
third trimester pregnant, the fetus a boy. The four bodies were
transferred to a senior member of the Kennedy family. The Bureau was not
informed whether the bodies were actually cremated. Indirect advisories
report that the bodies may have been shipped in untagged containers to
foreign destinations. Reliable assets are to submit reports.
END


Recipients:
America is under siege as of right now.

Jeff Rense's broadcast tonight with Sherman Skolnick, on the contents of
the leaked FBI document pinpointing an onboard bomb as the cause of the
JFK Jr. plane crash, was temporarily yanked from the net in an
UNPRECEDENTED move in the brief history of the Internet.

Here is Jeff's reply to messages sent to him by NewsHawk saying "Where's
the JFK Jr broadcast? Is everything smooth?," after the broadcast failed
to come on for over 30 minutes.

Apparently deciding that, as Jeff noted in this email to me, this action
VALIDATES the content of the leaked report, "they" relented at about
8:37 PM and the show is now on. Note the time of Jeff's email--8:20 PM PDT.

John Quinn
NewsHawk Inc.

 Original Message 
Subject: Re: Broadcast re JFK Jr./Bomb
Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 20:19:50 -0800
From:xxx
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


'They' have cut the show off the net.  Validates the material.

Jeff Rense




==
7.25.99
Recipients--
This portion of the FAA's OWN regulations regarding emergency procedures
REQUIRED TO BE INITIATED, was CLEARLY AND UNILATERALLY VIOLATED 

Re: [CTRL] NTSB: Pilot disorientation led to fatal JFK Jr. crash

[Stopforth, Jamie]

Amen to that... It's a reoccurring process so you would think people would
notice...  The same is true for TWA 800... Witness, "I saw a missile."
Mr/Mrs reporter, "Have you ever seen a missile before?"  Witness, "no."
Reporter, "Then how do you know it was a missile?"  Then they proceed to
smear the guy, "he's a bit confused."   I mean c'mon people, don't you know
that when a fuel tank of a jet blows up, there is a light that flies from
the ground up to the jet first?!  It's one of those natural phenomenon's,
you know like Mt. Rushmore.

Jamie


-Original Message-
From: Aleisha Saba [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 10:02 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [CTRL] NTSB: Pilot disorientation led to fatal JFK Jr.
crash


The problem that night was he broke radio silence and gave his location?

The problem that night was maybe someone knew his route.

The problem is, this is all "probable" isn't it and it took a year to
come up with this reporot?

The problem is perhaps we have a problem with these investigators who
run up these huge bills investigating the probable and overlooking a few
facts - like silenced witnesses?

A. Saba
Dare To Call It Conspiracy

A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing
propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance-not soap-boxing-please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'-with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds-is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html
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Re: [CTRL] Talmud Exposed

[Stopforth, Jamie]

The Bible today contains more truth then anything else ever written.

MHO
Amen
J



In a message dated 6/23/00 6:43:29 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
All in the Bible.



Nicky

The "Bible" of today is more a political book than religious "truth."

MHO
Om
K

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[CTRL] Pentagon: China is preparing for high-tech war with US.

[Stopforth, Jamie]

http://www.washtimes.com/national/default-2000623222038.htm

By Bill Gertz
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
 ...OLE_Obj...
China is building up military forces in preparation for a possible conflict
with the United States over Taiwan involving high-technology warfare,
according to a Pentagon report obtained by The Washington Times.
The unclassified version of the annual report to Congress states that "a
cross-strait conflict between China and Taiwan involving the United States
has emerged as the dominant scenario guiding [People's Liberation Army]
force planning, military training and war preparation."
The report states that Chinese military leaders are considering a major
escalation of its military building as a result of NATO's air war against
Yugoslavia.
And as a result of the U.S. bombing of the Chinese Embassy in Belgrade, the
report says, China is discussing ways to "offset U.S. power, to include
accelerating military modernization, pursuing strategic cooperation with
Russia, and increasing China's proliferation activities abroad."
"China's resolve to employ military force . . . should not be discounted,"
the report says.
As for U.S. involvement in defending Taiwan, the report said, China "would
employ all means necessary in the hope of inflicting high casualties and
weakening the intervening party's resolve."
The report is expected to play a major role in the Pentagon's upcoming
Quadrennial Defense Review to begin next year.
The review in the past has pitted defense planners who have sought to play
down the threat from China against other officials who contend the United
States must prepare now to deal with China's growing military power.
The report states that China is seeking to become "the dominant power in
Asia."
The report outlines China's development of new weapons and high technology
including information warfare, laser and anti-satellite weapons, and new
missiles, ships and aircraft.
Opposite Taiwan, Chinese missile forces pose a growing danger to the region,
the report says.
The Chinese military is acquiring an array of weapons that could be used in
a "pre-emptive strike" against Taiwan, including long-range cruise missiles,
air-launched bombs and short-range ballistic missiles, the report says.
The report states that Beijing's missile force will "grow substantially"
with new missile facilities being built opposite Taiwan. The new bases mean
China could attack the island "with little or no warning."
"Should China decide to attack Taiwan, Beijing's goal would be to erode
Taipei's will to fight with sufficient alacrity to avoid escalation of the
conflict and potential third party intervention in the hope of forcing a
political resolution in Beijing's favor," the report says.
The Chinese military currently has a limited capability to conduct
operations involving naval, air and missile strikes, which could benefit
Taiwan's ability to survive an initial attack, the report says.
"A PLA amphibious invasion of Taiwan probably would be preceded by a naval
blockade, air assaults and missile attacks on Taiwan," the report says.
"Airborne, airmobile and special operations forces likely would conduct
simultaneous attacks to the rear of Taiwan's coastal defenses to seize a
port, preferably in close proximity to an airfield."
The report projects that China's military advantage over Taiwan could
continue to grow in the 2010-to-2020 time period.
The report makes little mention of the heightened tensions between China and
Taiwan after a dispute over Taiwan President Lee Teng-hui's July 1999
statements about relations with China.
"During the summer," the report says, "PLA ground, naval air and strategic
rocket forces reportedly conducted exercises that . . . probably were
tailored to intimidate Taiwan.".
The report states that for the first time China used its new Russian-made
Su-27 fighter bombers as a "show of force" in the Taiwan Strait.
U.S. officials who have seen the classified version of the report say the
public version appears to have been modified to play down the more ominous
elements of Chinese military activities, such as Beijing's recent threats
against the United States and Taiwan.
Chinese military writings recently warned that China is prepared to use
nuclear weapons against the United States if it intervenes in a conflict
between China and Taiwan.
China's government issued a report last year that gave a new condition for
the use of force against the island. Beijing will use military force to
reunite the island if it fails to negotiate reunification, the Chinese
"white paper" states.

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major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum 

Re: [CTRL] Talmud Exposed

[Stopforth, Jamie]

Why didn't you pose this question to Kris?  He gave his opinion on what he
thought the Bible was, yet when I give mine in favor for the Bible you
confront me...  I knew it would happen. Thanks for proving me right.

And about your question, "how do you know?"

My Answer, I believe. Which I have a right to.

PS, The Bible can stand scrutiny, It's been around for thousands of years.
The Conspiracy in all this is the one that tries to prove the Bible
"wrong"/incorrect.

MHO
Amen
J






[EMAIL PROTECTED],Internet writes:
The Bible today contains more truth then anything else ever written.



How do you know? Have you read everything else and confirmed or refuted
everything in it by scientific inquiry? Does it contain more truth than my
encyclopedia which is 21 volumes longer? Does it contain more truth than
my dictionary which it three times thicker?

And what about the part of the Bible that contradict each other? When two
things contradict each other, by definition they can't both be true.
Therefore, by definition, the Bible contains untruths. Ergo, the rest of
it bears strong critical scrutiny.

But critical scrutiny is something of which no religious text and no
religion can stand very much. Maybe that why believers so studiously avoid
it.

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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Talmud Exposed

[Stopforth, Jamie]

 It also contains much falsehoods, political manipulations and downright
lies.
MHO
Om
K

  I'm glad you were smart enough to add that that was simply your "humble"
opinion.   People also had humble opinions that the Earth was at one point
flat you know.

J

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Re: [CTRL] Talmud Exposed

[Stopforth, Jamie]

Indeed you do have a right to believe. That doesn't make it the smart
thing to do. Believing and knowing are two totally different things.
Believe is what you do when you DON'T know. The smart thing to do when you
don't know is to find out for yourself.

"That doesn't make it the smart thing to do."   Again, you're opinion and
you're entitled to it.

"Believe is what you do when you don't know."  And how do you know that I
don't know?  Or do you believe I don't know?

"The smart thing to do when you don't know is to find out for yourself."
Wow, now that's deep.

Jamie

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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
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major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
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Re: [CTRL] Talmud Exposed

[Stopforth, Jamie]

"Okay J - the Pope says the Sun goes around the earth and he is
infallible?"

He's infallible, says who? Him? I don't subscribe to the Catholic belief
system, so let's move on.


"How do we know the earth is flat?  Because the bible says the earth has
"four corners", now that sure sounds like its flat to me."

North, South, East, West is the reference in the verse.

"And that day the sun stood still?   Well either we need new translators
or ones with larger IQs because something is sure wrong here."

So it didn't stand still? How do you know, or do you believe that? If you
just believe that, according to nessie, "Believe is what you do when you
DON'T know. The smart thing to do when you
don't know is to find out for yourself."  If you KNOW that, please explain.

"If I jump 2 feet in air will I come down in same spot if the earth is
really turning that fast?"

To be honest I don't know what you're referencing here.

"Anyway what is good enough for the Pope is still good enough for me.
That guy must have a great sense of humor."

I believe he's a bit confused. Although I don't know that, I guess I need to
call the guy so I can "find out for myself."


"My worst complaint is this - they say they are experiencing droughts and
water shortages?"

Who's "they?"

"Water water everywhere and not a drop to drink;  California and Florida
are supposed to sink in the oceans and they say their is a water
shortage.   Oceans two inches deeper and those morons at North and South
Pole mess with this OZONE to warm up Siberia."

Reference first statement.

"Well when they melt both polar caps will we still have a water shortage?"

Good question.

"How can they say we have a water shortage when Planet Earth is more
water than land, and our bodies are more water than - well so much for
these great questions.   I will let the new Pope worry about this, and I
sure hope they find one who is a chemist or an engineer who will hire a
good translator to go over the Bible"

Reference first statement.

"So I wonder what happened to Kermit the Frog; surely Kermit needs water
to survine."

I think the pig ate him.

"If thre is water shortage close the swimming pools for a starter and get
rid of the Coors - they use a lot of good water to make that slop."

I agree...

"A. Saba
Dare To Call It Conspiracy"

It's a Conspiracy.

Jamie

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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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Re: [CTRL] The Real Conspiracy was Talmud Exposed

[Stopforth, Jamie]

  I disagree. "Eternity:Smoking or Non?"  Would be the bigger issue here.
This life is but a vapor.   But we're not here to discuss that, so we can
move on now.

Jamie


 The Conspiracy in all this is the one that tries to prove the Bible
 "wrong"/incorrect.

I disagree. The real conspiracy is to first get us arguing about this
point in order to keep us distracted from the second part of the real
conspiracy, which is to enslave us under a NWO. And by arguing about
the veracity/falsity of the Bible, Talmud, Kabbalah, Tarot, Koran,
Vedas, whatever, we are playing right into the hands of the
conspirators.

Tenorlove

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screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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Re: [CTRL] Fwd: [RMNEWS] ELEVEN DAYS -- FOUR RIOTS -- ANARCHISTS -- BLACK PANTHERS --WHAT'S NEXT?

[Stopforth, Jamie]

 If this is the case and they are trying to cause riots... Bush jr. won't
call off that execution.

Jamie

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directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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Re: [CTRL] Mrs God WAS: UFO EVIDENCE:

[Stopforth, Jamie]

  Since I don't subscribe to the Catholic belief system, much less their
"Bible," we may not get too far discussing this... However to address your
last question about who the Bridegroom and the Bride are... The Bride is the
Church of God.  The Church of God is the Body of Believers, not just the
Catholic church.  The Bridegroom,  That's Jesus.

Jamie



  Oh, we could open up a fine can of worms with this topic.  The Divine
Wisdom of the so-called Old Testament is feminine.  Wisdom 9: 9,10 (Catholic
Bibles):

"With you is Wisdom, she who knows your works,
she who was present when you made the world;
she understands what is pleasing in your eyes
and what agrees with your commandments.
Despatch her from the holy heavens,
send her forth from your throne of glory
to help me and to toil with me
and to teach me what is pleasing to you,
since she knows and understands everything."

  Could Wisdom be the Holy Spirit?  Wisdom 9: 17,18:

"As for your intention, who could have learnt it, had you not
granted Wisdom
and sent your holy spirit from above?
Thus have the paths of those on earth been straightened
and men been taught what is pleasing to you,
and saved, by Wisdom."

The Catholic Church acknowledges that Divine Wisdom is feminine and
declared in one of the 'bull ineffablis' (?) that DW was Mary.  But from
reading what Jesus said about the Holy Spirit and comparing it to what was
written about Wisdom in "Wisdom" and "Ecclesiasticus" not to mention the
whole Bride and Bridegroom thread that runs through the entire book, I think
Wisdom is the Holy Spirit Jesus was talking about.

  The Gnostic texts talk about the Divine Sophia (Pistis Sophia) and many
learned people seem to think that Mary was the Divine Sophia.  But it
doesn't
fit.  Sophia suffered grave humiliation and harm and experienced prolonged
face-in-the-dirt-syndrome.  It just doesn't fit with what we know of Mary's
life, IMO.

  Anyway, for whatever reasons, I think the Powers-That-Be stripped the
feminine out of the Divinity, or at least out of the Trinity.  If the
"Father, Son and the Holy Spirit" are all males, where did the Son come
from?
 And who are the Bride and Bridegroom?  I think an application of Occam's
Razor is in order here.

Samantha

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screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths,
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and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and
minor
effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said,
CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

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Re: [CTRL] Mrs God WAS: UFO EVIDENCE:

[Stopforth, Jamie]

-Original Message-
From: Aleisha Saba [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2000 1:05 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [CTRL] UFO EVIDENCE:



  The word "our," h, you look at it as there is a "she." I look at it as
proof of the Trinity... Besides, "in our image", does that mean every exact
detail?  I've seen plenty of images-reflections even, and they're not
identical to the subject... But back to "Mrs. God." I guess that's open for
debate, or is it?

  About going further in space and churches going underground because of
it... Why would that be? Besides, it simply won't happen.  God has worked in
2000 year intervals... Adam and Eve, 2000 years later, Noah and the Flood,
2000 years later, the Birth of Christ... We're now 2000 years later. I think
we're due, and according to the Bible, the Rapture is the next event on the
list...

Jamie

Remember when you read Genesis, God said we will make man in OUR image.
Note, it takes two to tango, and there maybe was a Mrs. God.
So, did Mr. and Mrs. God produce children, Adam and Eve?  Our image.  We
will live so happily - a girl for you, and a boy for me - and don't sit
to long under them apple trees?


But always remember Genesis when God said lets make man in OUR image.
So, all you male chauvenists...there was a Mrs. God, for he made an
Adam and and Eve (and not Steve, Dr. Poly).

At least this is what I think.  If we reall go further into deep space
and discover the secrets of life, think a lot of churches would go
underground, and Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell, would have to get
another job.

So with this I am out of here; spent a day at the lake and was it
wonderful.  A perfect day.

A. Saba
Dare To Call It Conspiracy

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and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and
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Re: [CTRL] Clinton tells int'l terrorists: Attack these major U.S . cities- then martial law

[Stopforth, Jamie]

 Didn't they hand out gas masks during WWII and also teach what to do in
case of a bomb attack?  And now with all this stuff about, "not only is it
possible, but it's probable." (William Cohen speaking of terrorists attacks)
You'd think they'd be doing the same thing...

Jamie




(sent to USCMike1's 39,615+ readers - please repost to your own mailing
lists
and newsgroups - Thanks).

Dear Citizens, Patriots, Veterans, et al:

 Here is the list of 120 major U.S. cities that Clinton has told
international terroists to attack.  He has repeatedly broadcast, publicized,
and advertised this list to the world for the past four years that I have
been intimately involved with exposing the New World Order, its proponents,
its plans, and its present accomplishments.

 During this time I have attempted to obtain the specialized training
from the federal and local agencies necessary to avoid, recognize,
decontaminate, and medically treat exposure to NBC = Nuclear, Biological,
and
Chemical warfare and weapons of mass destruction as to be perpetrate by
international and/or domestic "terrorists."

 But, they refuse to allow any CIVILIAN to receive the training.  ONLY
the feds and certain state, county, city and local government agencies,
including medical centers and law enforcement agencies have been allow to
receive the training to protect themselves, the government employees and of
course the politicians.

 It is governmentally forbidden (already in certain cities and states)
for civilians to learn how to protect themselves from ANY type of physical
attack, NBC attack, or conventional warfare attack as from guns, ammunition,
and other implements of war - including would you believe it, protective gas
masks.  The government officials say that gas masks are considered to be
implements of war and therefore CIVILIANS are forbidden from obtaining,
possessing, or using them.

 Why?  Very simple.  We CIVILIANS are the intended targets.  Notice that
NO government officials nor agencies are advertised to be the targets.  Why?
This is all part of the plan for the New World Order rich, elite, illuminati
genocide mongers to depopulate the earth.  They want the present 6 billion
people population to be reduced to 500 million or even to 200 million.  This
is so the 300 elites, with their one million population families and
protectors (the top 1/2%) can have the entire world with its natural
resources naturally renewed over time all to themselves -

 -and of course the remainder of the population will be the totally
oblivious scientific automatons and engineers along with 199 million
chemically lobotomized imbecilic work slaves to feed, clothe, bathe, pamper,
care for, be sex objects for, and modern-day entertainment gladiators for
the
Luciferian elites.

 I have sent this post out dozens of times but it seems that now many
more people are beginning to wake up and shake off the shackles of
SHEEPLE-hood and they are genuinely interested in the FACTS of and the plans
of the New World Order.  So below I have copied the list of 120 major U.S.
cities that Clinton has determined that he wants terrorists to attack.

  However, throughout his entire presidential career, Clinton has NEVER
been able to coax, entice, prod, or cause ANY international or domestic
terrorists to attack the U.S.  All of the supposed international and/or
domestic terrorists that the feds have lied to us about attempting to commit
acts of terrorism have turned out to be U.S. military and federal MK-Ultra
Mind Contol subjects or U.S. paid mercenary terrorists under orders directly
from the feds and indirectly from Clinton himself.

Thanks to JOE [EMAIL PROTECTED] for asking for the list of cities and to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Douglas Walker) for making it available.  Anyone can
visit
the U.S. Army Chemical and Biological Warfare web sites and get the same
information but the last time I tried all of the sites were locked as off
limits to civilians.

 If you are interested in how far away from these cities you should be
and in which directions please don't hesitate to contact either me or Doug
Walker.  OBTW, Doug and a few other Patriots have established safe areas in
the north western section of the state of New Mexico to avoid the NBC
attacks.

Best regards, USCMike

Subj:   CITIES FOR ATTACK
Date:   6/4/00 8:04:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From:   A HREF="mailto:JOE HOYLE"JOE HOYLE/A
To: A HREF="mailto:USCMike1"USCMike1/A

HELLO

I would like a copy of the 120 or so cities named as being vulnerable for a
possible NBC attack. Thanks for your time.
BYE - joe.(((   '   }

Subj:[Fwd: Targeted U.S. Cities]
Date:   2/2/99 12:12:27 PM Pacific Standard Time
From:   [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Douglas Walker)
Reply-to:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mike Johnson)

This attached list will surprise some, but the many people
that I worked with in the past informed me of a different
pattern.

Since (we will not mention here) 

Re: [CTRL] Mind Chemtrol From The Sky?

[Stopforth, Jamie]

I've seen the planes, I've seen them land.  They are white jetliners.  You
may ask how I know it was a "Chemplane?"   Because a "normal" plane has no
need for a long blue boom hanging off the top of the horizontal stabilizer
(rudder).  I've seen them spray.  Check out www.contrailconnection.com.
Also, I'm a part of the Chemtrail club on Yahoo at
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/chemtrailtrackingusa .  They are spraying. It's
fact.  What? Well, that's the question in which there is lots of
speculation. But I'm sure it's something to further their agenda, so by
default that makes it bad for you and I.

 (I'm back)
  Jamie

-Original Message-
From: tenebroust [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2000 9:38 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Mind Chemtrol From The Sky?


I have seen these things as well.  A strange accumulation of crosshatching
which is unusual.  I have never seen a plane make them and have never seen a
plane "spraying" anything.  That does not mean it is not happening, but I
have no proof of it.  I also have read articles in "mainstream" publications
which give some scientific explanations for these things which do not
involve spraying of chemicals.  They could of course be "part of the
conspiracy", but I don't know it.  Let us see what we shall see.
Speculation is 100% okay and presenting information of this kind is often
limited to speculation as no hard evidence can be gleaned (especially if the
spraying is done at high altitudes, little residue would make it to the
ground to be gathered and tested).  One simply cannot say what it is that is
going on.  Given our government's past activity I am inclined to believe
that they ARE spraying us with something, as well as other not-so-noticeable
things as well (like ELF, Micro-waves, etc.) BUT my inclination is NOT
proof, thus we should reserve judgement on what is the truth.


On Thu, 25 May 2000, nessie wrote:


 [EMAIL PROTECTED],Internet writes:
 
 And we

 don't know what else it is or isn't, either."
 
 
 You say this all the time about everything.


 And I'm almost always right.
 
 
 
 Post referred to - "the take off and landing weights of his planes

 suddenly did not correspond anymore with the amount of fuel used, meaning

 that something besides fuel was lost during those flights."


 Did you you personally weigh the plane? Neither did I. I'm willing to
 believe that some guy said the weights were different. I'm not willing to
 believe the weights were different without corroboration.
 
 
 
  are the commercial planes

 spraying something we don't know about?
 
 
 YES THEY ARE. WE DO KNOW .


 How do you know, because somebody told you? Or did you personally observe
 it happening and scientifically eliminate all other explanations for what
 you saw?

 Let me tell you what I know. Twice I have seen weird cross hatch contrail
 patterns over my city. We have three major airports here. Commercial
 airliners cross the sky here constantly. It is not at all unusual for me
 to see airliners overhead. Sometimes they leave contrails, usually they do
 not. It depends on atmospheric conditions. When they do leave contrails
 the contrails are always at pretty much the same altitude. There are
 seldom more than one to three at a time and while the are occasionally do
 cross each other they never form a dense cross hatch pattern at lower
 altitude like the two cross hatch patterns I reported. This has led me to
 believe that it highly unlikely that the weird crosshatch patterns I saw
 had anything whatsoever, natural or otherwise, to do with commercial
 airliners. That's what I know.

 I didn't see the planes that produced the weird cross hatch patterns.
 Though I consider it unlikely, it is entirely conceivable that the planes
 resemble commercial airliners. They may even be the same makes and models,
 though I doubt it highly. That, however, does not make them commercial
 airliners. Commercial airliners do not behave that way. Commercial
 airliners never fly relatively low over the city in a cross hatch pattern,
 ever. Such totally anomalous behavior would surely have drawn great
 attention. We see commercial airliners all the time. The always behave the
 same way. They climb and  they leave the area in a relatively straight
 line or they descend and then land. They never fly cross-hatches low over
 the city. They tend to not fly directly over the city at all because
 that's not where the airports are.

 This whole thing puts me in mind of the whole unmarked black helicopter
 flap. I've heard about them. I've seen picture of what has been reputed to
 be unmarked black helicopters. These are not good enough reasons for me to
 believe people are flying unmarked black helicopters. So I studiously
 avoided telling people that unmarked black helicopters were flying in our
 skies. I did however tell people about the reports and the pictures,
 neither of which amounted to my being able to truthfully say that unmarked
 black 

Re: [CTRL] Mind Chemtrol From The Sky?

[Stopforth, Jamie]

  The planes I've seen are totally white. The long blue boom hanging off the
back of the plane attached to the top of the vertical stab is the only thing
that hints to me it's a chemplane.  There are no defining numbers or
markings on the plane.  Where?  This is the crazy part.  I'm about 10 miles
from the Tulsa International Airport but near there is a national guard
base, so from where I was it was difficult to tell which airport they were
landing at. But I wouldn't think they would land at a public airport, but I
could be wrong too. When?  Last week.


Jamie

[EMAIL PROTECTED],Internet writes:
I've seen the planes, I've seen them land.  They are white jetliners.



Where? When? What models? What were their markings? Specifically, what
were their numbers? Did you write down their numbers? If not, why not?

They are spraying. It's fact.  What? Well, that's the question in which
there is lots of
speculation.But I'm sure it's something to further their agenda, so by
default that makes it bad for you and I.


Agreed. But part of the problem here is we are still at the stage of
speculating as to who "they" are and what, exactly their agenda is.

A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
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screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths,
misdirections
and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and
minor
effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said,
CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Re: [CTRL] Freemasonry's Occult, Evil Empire Exposed

[Stopforth, Jamie]

-Caveat Lector-   A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"
/A -Cui Bono?-

  There's definitely some crazy stuff going on with the Vatican and the
position of the Pope.  Specially when you look at the whole situation on how
the current Pope obtained the position... Anyone have any more info on this?
It was a crazy deal.

Jamie

-Original Message-
From: earthman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2000 9:43 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Freemasonry's Occult, Evil Empire Exposed


Thanks eagle, I did not realise the Vatican was behind it. Wink wink nudge
nudge, say no more, say no more.

Peter

We are about to go on a Journey. All Aboard
http://sites.netscape.net/gsussnzl/poleshift
http://sites.netscape.net/gsussnzl/poleshift





- Original Message -
From: Eagle 1 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2000 8:36 PM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Freemasonry's Occult, Evil Empire Exposed

earthman...
Peter,
Leaving out the books of Enoch and Jasher were done by the Trent Council in
1821...
The book of Enoch lost the vote by only one and the book of Daniel was
cannonized by only one vote...  MEN did the voting.  Those books were
originally a part of the King James that was translated in 1611.

The Trent Council was made up mostly of members of the Vatican...  need I
say more?

You can examine a portion of the Enoch scroll on my website,
http://www.lambsheart.com/fourwinds/naphal2.html
http://www.lambsheart.com/fourwinds/naphal2.html

eagle 1

- Original Message -
From: earthman mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2000 12:41 AM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Freemasonry's Occult, Evil Empire Exposed

"Even they claim that they could have made errors"
Yeah like leaving out the books of Enoch Thomas, Jasher (sp)...LOL

peter

We are about to go on a Journey. All Aboard
http://sites.netscape.net/gsussnzl/poleshift
http://sites.netscape.net/gsussnzl/poleshift

A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soap-boxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
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Re: [CTRL] I.D. Biochip in your Right Hand!

[Stopforth, Jamie]

-Caveat Lector-   A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"
/A -Cui Bono?-

Jamie,
Find me the word "RAPTURE" in the Bible...
anywhere in the Bible.   I don't want a twist of scripture...
or a combination of scripture that makes it "sound" like it is a rapture.=
..

I only want to know where to find this word "rapture" specifically.

Thank you very much.

eagle 1


 You won't find it in the "English" version, however that doesn't mean it's
not there.  The word "Rapture" is Latin, if you have the Latin Vulgate you
would be able to read it, but you would have to alos be able to read and
understand Latin.  Our word "Rapture" is the Greek translation of the same
word.  You can have different translations of the same book, which of course
has different wording, however, the general meaning stays the same.

 "A rose by any other name stays as sweet"
   -Shakespeare


You're welcome very much.

Jamie

A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
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screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soap-boxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] I.D. Biochip in your Right Hand!

[Stopforth, Jamie]

-Caveat Lector-   A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"
/A -Cui Bono?-

 It doesn't matter what it is, we won't be here to see it.  But I
disagree, it is physical thing.

[Rev 13:16] And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free
and bond, to receive a mark IN their right hand, or IN their foreheads:

 So, you're saying that's not physical?


Rev 16:2] And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and
there fell *a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of
the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.*

  So you're saying these people that take this "not physical mark" will
somehow get a sore from something that's not physical?  It's obvious it's
physical, and it's going to cause health problems according to Rev 16:2.

Why do you believe what you believe about the mark?  What scriptures do you
have for support of this theory?

Jamie



You are absolutely right, Eagle1. The "mark" is not a physical thing.
People
are so worried about being forced to get a smartcard or chip
implant...ridiculous! Even if this chip were to be used as an
identification, it only menas that technology has improved. If we aren't
going to burn for having a social security number, this is no different. I
just wonder how many people would end up as refugees or dead by insisting on
not getting a chip, if it were ever required. Identification or credit is
not a crime against God. What did Jesus say about the coin with Caesar's
image on it? Or what did Paul say about obeying the earthly rulers, for God
put them in power? Put your trust in God, or you might be "marked" by the
One who really counts.

A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soap-boxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] I.D. Biochip in your Right Hand!

[Stopforth, Jamie]

-Caveat Lector-   A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"
/A -Cui Bono?-

WHAT is  *in* your forehead???

WHAT is *in* your hand?  The Bible makes it clear it's going to be in the
hand OR forehead.  How could it possibly something not physical if it was in
the hand?  If it was something not physical or mental as what you believe
why then even put the Hand as an option?   And why the grievous sore for
those that have the mark? [Rev 16:2]  That brings me to believe it is a
device and not simply a state of mind.



Jamie

A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soap-boxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] I.D. Biochip in your Right Hand!

[Stopforth, Jamie]

-Caveat Lector-   A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"
/A -Cui Bono?-

Don't be so sure that we won't be here. The rapture theory is just that:
A
theory. I encourage you to reread for yourself what is said in the Bible
about this and see that there is no pre-trib rapture mentioned anywhere.

  Sorry, but if it's the word of God, it's not a theory.  It's truth.

 As for pre-trib or post trib, I've discussed this issue 100 times over and
have yet to find anything that would make me believe it to be post trib.
We'll just have to agree to disagree on this.

Jamie

A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soap-boxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
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Re: [CTRL] Fwd: Death penalty issue for Bush

[Stopforth, Jamie]

-Caveat Lector-   A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"
/A -Cui Bono?-

  Anyone who knowingly kills someone else probably is mentally ill in a
sense, but that shouldn't free them of the ramifications.  That's the
system, live with it, or die by it.  If you're not interested in being
killed by system, don't kill.  This article is a bunch of leftist malarkey.

Jamie


 http://www.vny.com/cf/News/upidetail.cfm?QID=58231
 Protests fail to halt Texas executions
 
  Tuesday, 18 January 2000 15:11 (ET)
 
  Protests fail to halt Texas executions
 
  HUNTSVILLE, Texas, Jan. 18 (UPI) -- Despite protests, Texas prison
  officials plan late
  Tuesday to carry out the first of six executions scheduled in the next
  two weeks.
 
  Spencer Corey Goodman, 31, is scheduled to receive a lethal injection
  shortly after 6 p.m. CST for the 1991 murder of Cecile Ham, 48, the wife
  of  Bill Ham, manager of the rock group ZZ Top. Ham was beaten to death
  after her car was stolen from a Houston drug store parking lot. Her body
  was found in South Texas.
 
  Goodman was arrested about a month later following a high-speed chase
  along mountain roads in Colorado. He wrecked Ham's car after driving it
  over a low cliff. He later confessed to beating Ham to death for her
  car.
 
  Goodman, a two-time felon, was supposed to report to a half-way house
  in Houston on July 1, 1991, the day before the slaying. Instead, he
  walked away and pulled the carjacking the next day when he said he grew
  tired of walking in the heat.
 
  On Monday, a group of anti-death penalty protesters rallied at the
  state Capitol in Austin, asking Gov. George W. Bush to halt the six
  executions. They were angered by the accelerated pace of Texas
  executions, and Friday's execution of Larry Robison, who they say is
  mentally ill.
 
  Linda Edwards, a Bush spokeswoman, said Bush supports the death penalty
  and will not interfere with the courts. He has presided over 113
  executions since taking office. He cannot commute a death sentence
  unless the Texas Boards of Pardons and Paroles recommends the action.
 
  Robison, 42, received the death sentence after he was convicted of
  killing and mutilating five people in Fort Worth in 1983. His attorneys
  argue that he is insane and should not be executed. The Texas Court of
  Criminal Appeals has rejected his claim.
 
  Carl Villareal, a founder of the Austin chapter of Campaign to End the
  Death Penalty, said Bush would not be a front-runner in the presidential
  race if the public knew his record on the death sentence in Texas.
 
  "If people knew that he believes justice is being served by killing the
  mentally ill, but ignoring them when they need health care, then I am
  sure that Bush would have no political future," he said.
 
  If Goodman is executed, he will be the 201st convicted killer executed
  in Texas since the state resumed the death penalty in 1982. The state
  carried out 36 executions last year.
 
  --
  Copyright 2000 by United Press International.
  All rights reserved.
  -- 

A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A
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[CTRL] Wanted: Police Officers to Wear a Lighter Blue

[Stopforth, Jamie]

-Caveat Lector-   A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"
/A -Cui Bono?-

 From http://www.pathfinder.com/time/daily/0,2960,37653-101000117,00.html

 Wanted: Police Officers to Wear a Lighter Blue
TIME Notebook: Albright asks for more cops on the world beat

The Clinton administration doesn't want the U.S. to become the world's
policeman. But it wouldn't mind having world cops. Floating around the White
House is a proposal by Secretary of State Madeleine Albright that would have
the U.N. set up a standby force of several thousand policemen, who would
rush into war-torn areas to keep law and order. Cops are scarce in countries
recovering from civil war, but military units deployed as peacekeepers balk
at doing police work. So the U.N. has to start from scratch each time,
enlisting nations to contribute policemen. "Getting enough of them is always
a problem," says a senior State Department official. For example, it has
been seven months since the Kosovo war ended, but the U.N. has only about
2,000 of the 4,700 policemen it needs there. The fighting in East Timor
ended four months ago, but only 330 of the 1,640 cops requested by the U.N.
have shown up. Albright wants nations to promise police officers ahead of
time. They would then be on call to hit the beat immediately.

A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
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frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
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[CTRL] Hillary on Letterman Show Secret Service

[Stopforth, Jamie]

-Caveat Lector-   A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"
/A -Cui Bono?-

From  http://www.newsmax.com/showinsidecover.shtml?a=2000/1/13/171058

Letterman Secret Service 'Threat' Not a First for Hillary
If staffers on the David Letterman show threatened to sic the Secret Service
on any audience member who shouted or booed during Hillary Clinton's "Late
Show" debut, it wouldn't be the first time something like that has happened.

An on-the-scene report swirling around the Internet late Wednesday claimed
that Letterman staffers repeatedly warned the audience beforehand, "Put your
politics aside. This is a comedy show -- no booing, no shouting. And if you
don't listen to us you can talk to the Secret Service."
The New York Daily News confirmed that Hillary's "Late Show" audience was
warned not to "boo, whistle or shout political slogans," but omitted any
mention of Secret Service-connected threats.
A "Late Show" press spokeswoman contacted Thursday by NewsMax.com would say
only that the Secret Service did not employ any overly intrusive security
measures, such as pat-down frisks or metal detectors. But as to whether the
audience was deliberately intimidated to spare Mrs. Clinton any
embarrassment, she respondeed, "I don't know what they were told. I wasn't
out there."
As outrageous as it may seem, reports of the Secret Service being misused to
shield Mrs. Clinton from embarrassing media moments are not new. During a
fund-raising swing though the Southwest in June 1996, for instance, the
Arizona Republic reported a similar incident:
"Reporters at the Monday afternoon speech were kept at arm's length from the
first lady by Secret Service agents, who warned the press not to yell out
questions." Hours earlier, the Supreme Court had rejected a White House bid
to keep some of Mrs. Clinton's Whitewater records sealed.
Incensed by the abuse of both the presidential security detail and the First
Amendment, Arizona Rep. Matt Salmon complained to The Washington Times, "It
appears (the president) has targeted the Secret Service to silence his
critics. The Secret Service is paid to protect the president and his family
from physical harm, not to protect them from tough questions."
President Clinton has himself sicced the Secret Service on critics he
thought went too far.
Pat Mendoza, who was at the "Taste of Chicago" food fair in July 1996, was
actually arrested along with her husband Glenn for merely speaking her mind,
albeit in a vulgar manner, as Clinton attempted to shake her hand.
"You suck and those boys died," Mrs. Mendoza erupted, referring to the still
unsolved Khobar Towers bombing a month earlier, which had taken the lives of
19 USAF personnel stationed in Saudi Arabia.
Then, according to Mrs. Mendoza's account to The Washington Times, "Mr.
Clinton looked at her for a moment, then motioned to an assistant before
moving down the line. After the president left, Secret Servcie agents
converged on Mrs. Mendoza, accusing her of threatening the president."
Seconds before the Secret Service swooped down, a videotape shot by
Chicago's WMAQ-TV shows Clinton pointing out the Mendozas to White House
enforcer Bruce Lindsey. That video has never been broadcast nationally.
After their arrest, the Mendozas spent 14 hours in a Cook County lock-up.
Though the Secret Service eventually dropped all charges, the couple, who
ran a small electronics business, was soon audited by the Clinton IRS.

A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
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and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Response To Eagle

[Stopforth, Jamie]

-Caveat Lector-   A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"
/A -Cui Bono?-

  Hypocrisy exists because people are people.  It's not Christianity that's
the problem. It's people.  No matter what race, religion, sex etc...  So if
you're going to blame something for Hypocrisy, look in the mirror, unless of
course, you're not human.  Which is possible I guess, seeing as we may have
"evolved" from cute little monkeys (which is part of a bigger conspiracy
altogether).

Jamie

It is very nice and special that your bible-belief keeps you safe and
warm.
MOST OF THE WORLD holds different beliefs, hence the "heathens" have been
systematically exploited and butchered from time to time by those of your
Xian faith.
Hypocrisy in the Nth degree.

CAN IT, OK? (it IS, I belive - OFF TOPIC.)
If you insist on making it topical, hold onto your holy Xian ass, cuz it's
gonna get flamed mightily.

thanks.

Dave Hartley
http://www.Asheville-Computer.com/dave

A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
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screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soap-boxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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[CTRL] FW: USA For Impeachment Again dear Combo One List

[Stopforth, Jamie]

 -Caveat Lector-

December 30th, 1999

Have a safe and Happy New Year!

*POLL: AMERICANS WANT NEW IMPEACHMENT INQUIRY
In a recent Zogby International poll, two-thirds of Americans favor a
new impeachment inquiry of President Clinton which focuses on his
trading of nuclear secrets and technology to communist China in exchange
for illegal campaign cash.  Despite the liberal media's contention that
people have tired of Clinton's scandals, it is obvious that the majority
of Americans want Clinton to held accountable for his crimes in office.
CIC'S Steve Miroy says "At CIC we are still collecting petitions demanding
another impeachment inquiry and we plan to send them to Congress.
If you haven't already signed on, please do so now and encourage
others as well, ( http://www.impeachclinton.org/impeach/petition.html)


*HILLARY POLL REVEALS SUPPORT FOR PREZ CANDIDACY
Another recent Zogby poll has revealed that if the presidential election
were held today, Hillary Clinton would get 25% of the vote in a 3-way
race with George Bush and Pat Buchanan.  Likewise, among Democratic
primary voters, Hillary would receive 19% in a three-way race with
Bradley and Gore.  These ratings are shocking considering that Hillary
has not even declared, nor is rarely mentioned, as a presidential
candidate.  CIC's Linda Whiteman says "Clearly, it appears that Hillary
is still more popular with liberals and Democrats nationally than with
the voters in New York state.  Hillary may end up at the White House in
2000."

Visit our website for the "Top Ten Reasons New Yorkers Should Reject Hillary
Clinton." They are quite funny and summarize the issues New York style.

*HILLARY'$ CAMPAIGN WAR CHEST
Hillary Clinton is expected to disclose in January that she raked in $8
million from ritzy liberals in her non-official campaign in New York.
While the establishment press gushes over her fundraising prowess, they
still fail to ignore the millions of dollars Hillary has already bilked
from American taxpayers through her government-sponsored "frequent
flyer" program.  They also ignore the fact that, according to FEC rules,
Hillary can use this $8 million on whatever office she finally decides
to run for.


*RAPE VICTIM SUES CLINTON
Juanita Broaddrick, who was brutally raped by Clinton when he was
Governor of Arkansas, has sued the Clinton White House and the Justice
Department.  Ms. Broaddrick argues that President Clinton and Attorney
General Janet Reno illegally kept files on her, and smeared and
destroyed her reputation.

Last year CIC attempted through the Freedom of Information Act to
obtain any files the White House has been keeping on CIC.  The White
House Legal Counsel's office has rejected our requests.

*STARR INVESTIGATORS BELIEVE FOSTER WAS MURDERED
In a recent interview with Bill O'Reilly on Fox News, former Independent
Counsel Ken Starr was thoroughly humiliated on the air with questions
about the death of Vince Foster.  Mr. O'Reilly revealed that Starr's own
investigators confided in him that they believed Vince Foster was indeed
murdered.  These revelations clearly contradict Starr's own final
cover-up report in 1997 declaring that Foster committed "suicide."
Stunned and embarrassed, Starr fumbled with his words and demanded to
know who said this; however, he still stuck to his absurd belief that he
is "100% sure" that Foster killed himself. CIC's Jack Clayton says "
This
breaking information is yet another vindication for CIC --- which
issued its own investigative "Report to Congress" in 1997 proving that
Foster
was murdered.

*WHAT TO DO ABOUT IMMIGRANT INVASION?
In addition to our continuing work against the corruption of the Clinton
White House, the Citizens' Investigative Commission (CIC) is also
focusing on other national issues.
CIC's Scott Lauf writes: "As America enters the 21st century, there
remains a great challenge that almost every politician in Washington
wants to ignore:  the unseemly tide of illegal immigrants pouring into
our great country."  The full text of this commentary will be posted
at http://www.impeachclintonagain.org ...

Jim Huber's latest cartoon of the millennium takes a swipe at stupid
"campaign reform". CIC looks forward to serving you in 2000.All of us
at CIC wish our  supporters a Happy New Year and encourage you to be
 prepared for Y2K.

#30

[The Committee to Impeach the President Again! is the website project of
the Citizens' Investigative Commission (CIC), formerly the Clinton
Investigative Commission. CIC is an authorized program of the Council of
Volunteer Americans, a registered 501 c. 4 organization.  Donations to
CIC can be sent to: P.O.Box 1222, Sterling, VA 20167. Thank you.
Inquiries about this broadcast can be directed to
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list, please include the code # in the subject area of our message]

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not 

[CTRL] A Warning Message...........

[Stopforth, Jamie]

 -Caveat Lector-

http://syninfo.com/ian/PRIVATE/1999/12/30/1999123021072499.html

Thought this was interesting, although, who knows anymore

Jamie


WARNING!!! EMERGENCY!!! PLEASE READ NOW!!!  [see comment below]  Date:
12/29/1999 11:11:52 PM Eastern Standard Time  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Daniel  Luellen Carr)   THIS IS AN ALERT  I have found out from a
former Prophecy Club speaker that trouble iscoming  on the 31st. Al
Cuppett, formerly with the Joint Chiefs, called me towarn  me of some
activity that could effect you. A pastor in Eastern Colorado  (that all the
more specific I can be right now) called Alex and told himthat  a Colorado
police officer told this pastor NOT to go to his church's  moonlight
(candlelight) observance. It could mean his life. Of course,this  made him
ask the obvious question, "why".   There is a little-known group called
the "no-knockers". This group,funded  by tax dollars, uses people who were
"trained" at a "boot camp" for teenage  prisoners. These former gang
members are now a para-military force to be  watched. This group, being
trained in the Montana highlands, has beenspread  out over the country to
prepare a simultaneous strike against Christians.   The police officer
told this pastor that these "no-knockers" are going to  strike marked
churches by kicking in the doors and "help the congregationto  commit
suicide" at the top of the hour 12 midnight EST (11 pm CST, 10 pmMST, 
etc.) while the church is taking communion.   Sound crazy? Not really.
Another police officer has called Alex and told  him that in Jacksonville,
FL, there is a "mass suicide of Christians"planned  at the stroke of
midnight into the new millennium. The same was said for  Knoxville, TN. It
was reported that there is so much carnage expectedthat  the police has
"reserved several freezer box cars to hold all  of the bodies."   Alex is
convinced that the start of the round-ups will begin with this event.  If
you think about it, the media has spent an awful lot of time and effort 
lately to make Bible believing Christians into crazed zealots who areintent
 on forcing the start of the book of Revelation by brutality, bloodshed (of
 their own or someone else's), or any other means necessary. Remember
howthey  have demonized this "Brother David" and his followers (I'm not
sayingthey're  right, it's just too much of a coincidence) for being in
Jerusalem, readyto  force the start of the end time.   The Bible states
that Moses didn't go up to the tabernacle on a certainday  because it
wasn't of the Lord and it was dangerous (maybe life threatening?).  Please
give careful consideration and prayer to all of your actions these  next
two days. Please run EVERY action by the Lord for clearance! Don'tgo  into
this bull-headed, you may just get the ax!   In His Service,  Daniel Carr
 ===   COMMENT FROM DOT BIBEE: Received this
message early this morning - and am  forwarding this to my entire mailing
list for their information. I will  check this out with the Prophecy Club
as soon as I can get through to Topeka.  The MESSAGE I put out yesterday
from the Knoxville News-Sentinel indicated  that the Knoxville (Knox
County) "emergency teams" are prepared for mass  suicides - so there IS a
connection here.that MUST BE checked out -NOW!!  PRAY that those who
need to get this message will receive it on time.May  the Lord Bless and
Keep us All PLEASE FORWARD TO YOUR E-MAIL  LISTS. and phone those
who are not on e-Mail. As soon as I can findMORE  information, I will post
it to you.FREEDOM NEWS NETWORK  %Dot Bibee ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) 
Knoxville, TN Ph/FAX (865) 577-7011   

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] When there *IS* no martial law/NWO/UN Y2K take over

[Stopforth, Jamie]

 -Caveat Lector-

  There are going to be issues, whether they're catastrophic or not is
another issue all together.  It'll be interesting though, as the day goes by
tomorrow, to watch the other countries and see how they do through it all.
Sure this company says that and that company says this, but do you really
think any company is going to come out and say "yeah we're having Y2K
problems...?" Heck no, they'll lose money through investors, customers, etc,
and that's even before the impact of the Y2K event itself.  When EVERYTHING
has to be compliant all at once, I don't believe it's going to be without
problems.


Jamie

-Original Message-
From: Dano [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 1999 1:49 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [CTRL] When there *IS* no martial law/NWO/UN Y2K take over


 -Caveat Lector-

You mean to say you haven't heard?
'Sources' say "the NWO/UN/ZOG/FEMA" takeover has been called off.

However I suspect this has no bearing on computer failures, and,
despite the fact that the "Party Line" has clearly been
DENY DENY DENY right to the end, the final outcome of the y2k
computer snafu, has yet to be resolved.


True Patriot wrote:

  -Caveat Lector-

 --Original Message--
 From: John Hurd [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: True Patriot [EMAIL PROTECTED]

  But what if they are right

 A completely valid question. Turnabout is fair play.
 If they are right, then you'll never hear an apology from me. Why? Because
 if these wack jobs *ARE* right, the NWO/UN/ZOG/FEMA whatever will 1) shut
 down e-mail 2) throw me into a "UN concentration camp" 3) kill me or 4) a
 combination of 1-3. In any event, apologies will be out of the question.
 HOWEVER, when it does NOT happen, the e-mails will be up, no one will be
in
 "UN concentration camps" and no one will be killed by the NWO or whatever.
 So, THEY have no excuse to not admit they were WRONG.

 __

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting
propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance-not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and
outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to
readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

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Om

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

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Om

[CTRL] Clinton and Nero

[Stopforth, Jamie]

 -Caveat Lector-

 From
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_btl/19991229_xcbtl_clinton_an.shtml

I don't know about you, but I am still reeling over the under-reported,
under-scrutinized, under-analyzed comments by White House press secretary
Joe Lockhart about Southern Baptists.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_btl/19991228_xcbtl_the_bigots.shtml
For those of you who missed it, here's what he said: "I think the president
has made very clear ... his views on religious tolerance, and how one of the
greatest challenges going into the next century is dealing with intolerance,
dealing with ethnic and religious hatred, and coming to grips with the
long-held resentments between religions. So I think he's been very clear in
his opposition to whatever organization, including the Southern Baptist,
that perpetuate ancient religious hatred."
Lockhart, the official White House spokesman, stated, without equivocation,
without hesitation and, most importantly, without rebuke from his boss, that
the evangelical Christian notion of carrying out the Great Commission and
spreading Christianity to people of other faiths equates with perpetuating
"ancient religious hatred."
In effect, the Clinton administration is now on record as believing that the
practice of biblical Christianity is tantamount to a "hate crime."

It might surprise some people to learn that this is not a new idea.
Americans are not noted for their historical memory. But Christians were
among the Roman Empire's most persecuted victims. It's interesting to know
why -- what the motivation was for that persecution.
The first-century Roman historian Cornelius Tacitus provides some insight in
his classic work, "Annals."
Here's a translated excerpt from "Annals" 15:44, describing Emperor Nero's
reaction to the burning of Rome:
But all human efforts, all the lavish gifts of the emperor, and the
propitiations of the gods, did not banish the sinister belief that the
conflagration was the result of an order. Consequently, to get rid of the
report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on
a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace.
Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty
during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius
Pilate, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment,
again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even
in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world
find their center and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made
of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense
multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of
hatred against mankind. Mockery of every sort was added to their deaths.
Covered with the skins of beasts, they were torn by dogs and perished, or
were nailed to crosses, or were doomed to the flames and burnt, to serve as
a nightly illumination, when daylight had expired.
Notice that Christians were charged with "hatred of mankind." Isn't that
interesting? They were executed for a "hate crime." This is where it all
began. And look who's talking about picking up the torch of persecution
today -- the Clinton administration.
You may not think that's significant. You may not think it's important that
the city of Chicago is asking the Southern Baptists not to hold their
convention there because of the perception that the denomination is a group
of haters. You may not think it is relevant that Christians are the target
of bias and bigotry in our culture today on a scale unprecedented since the
fall of Rome.

I do. I also think it is worth noting that we are past the point at which
government simply turned a blind eye to this kind of prejudice. Now
government -- at the highest levels -- is an active participant in fanning
the flames of hatred against Christians. Bill Clinton, the man who
conveniently embraced the Southern Baptist tradition when it came time for
political redemption in Arkansas, is leading us back to the horrors of Rome.
You might say he's a modern-day Nero.
This is the real "hate crime" -- if there is such a thing.
If this isn't enough to wake Christians in America from their complacency
and misguided trust in government, I give up. It's time, brothers and
sisters, to put your faith in God, not in Caesar, not in Nero and certainly
not in Clinton.

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives 

Re: [CTRL] Anyone know this E.O.???

[Stopforth, Jamie]

 -Caveat Lector-

Thank You!

Jamie

-Original Message-
From: Bill Kingsbury [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 1999 10:04 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Anyone know this E.O.???


 -Caveat Lector-

At 07:46 AM 12-28-1999 -0600, Jamie wrote:

  A friend was telling me about it and he thinks it was signed in Dec
of  one of the last couple of years.  Within the E.O. it says that our
nuclear missiles will not be on alert and we will absorb the first hit.
And supposedly putting nuclear missiles on alert is not a short
process Anyone familiar with this E.O.?  Just curious.


 From: Edward Britton [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999
 Subject:  [CTRL] A Nuclear Knife Aimed at America's Heart


 A Nuclear Knife Aimed at America's Heart
 Joel M. Skousen
 March 25, 1999

 In November 1997, President Clinton signed a top-secret
 Presidential Decision Directive (PDD-60) directing U.S. military
 commanders to abandon the time-honored nuclear deterrence of
 "launch on warning."

 Ironically, this was done in the name of "increased deterrence."
 Every sensible American needs to understand why this reasoning is
 fraudulent at best and deadly at worst.  First, some background.

 The impetus to change U.S. strategic nuclear doctrine came on the
 heels of Clinton's demand to the Joint Chiefs of Staff in early
 1997 that they prepare to unilaterally reduce America's nuclear
 warhead deployment to 2,500 in eager anticipation of the
 ratification of the START II disarmament treaty.  This pact
 has yet to be ratified by the Russian Duma.

 Gen. John Shalikashvili, chairman of the Joint Chiefs, responded
 that he couldn't comply, since the U.S. military was still
 operating on a former Presidential Decision Directive of 1981 to
 prepare to "win a protracted nuclear war."  A winning strategy
 couldn't be implemented without the full contingent of current
 nuclear strategic warheads.

 According to Craig Cerniello of Arms Control Today
 (November/December 1997 issue), "the administration viewed the
 1981 guidelines as an anachronism of the Cold War.  The notion
 that the United States still had to be prepared to fight and win
 a protracted nuclear war today seemed out of touch with reality,
 given the fact that it has been six years since the collapse of
 the Soviet Union."

 Certainly, the apparent collapse of the Soviet Union is the
 linchpin in every argument pointing toward the relaxation of
 Western vigilance and accelerated disarmament.  Indeed, it is
 the driving argument that is trumpeted constantly before Congress,
 U.S. military leaders, and the American people.

 Almost everyone is buying it -- even most conservatives who should
 know better.  However, the most savvy Soviet-watchers can point to
 a host of evidence indicating that the so-called "collapse" was
 engineered to disarm the West and garner billions in direct aid to
 assist Russia while inducing the West to take over the economic
 burden of the former satellite states.

 But the most ominous evidence is found in defectors from Russia
 who tell the same story:  Russia is cheating on all aspects of
 disarmament, and is siphoning off billions in Western aid money to
 modernize and deploy top-of-the-line new weapons systems aimed at
 taking down the U.S. military in one huge, decapitating nuclear
 strike.

 Contrast this with the Clinton administration's response.
 Incredibly, while still paying lip service to nuclear deterrence,
 Assistant Secretary of Defense Edward L. Warner III went before
 the Congress on March 31, 1998, and bragged about the litany of
 unilateral disarmament this administration has forced upon the
 U.S. military:

 Warner noted the "success" the Clinton administration has had in
 recent years, which has:

 Eliminated our entire inventory of ground-launched
 non-strategic nuclear weapons (nuclear artillery and Lance
 surface-to-surface missiles).

 Removed all nonstrategic nuclear weapons on a day-to-day basis
 from surface ships, attack submarines, and land-based naval
 aircraft bases.

 Removed our strategic bombers from alert.

 Stood down the Minuteman II ICBMs scheduled for deactivation
 under Start I.

 Terminated the mobile Peacekeeper and mobile small ICBM
 programs.

 Terminated the SCRAM-II nuclear short-range attack missile.

 In January 1992, the second Presidential Nuclear Initiative took
 further steps which included:

 Limiting B-2 production to 20 bombers.

 Canceling the entire small ICBM program.

 Ceasing production of W-88 Trident SLBM (submarine-launched
 missile) warheads.

 Halting purchases of advanced cruise missiles.

 Stopping new production of Peacekeeper missiles (our biggest
 MIRV-warhead ICBM).

 "As a result of these significant changes, the U.S. nuclear
 stockpile has decreased by more than 50 percent," Warner enthused.

 All of this has been done without any 

[CTRL] *Breaking News* Oklahoma School Shooting

[Stopforth, Jamie]

 -Caveat Lector-

  www.abcnews.com

 \\|//
(o o)
oOOo-(_)-oOOo
 Jamie Stopforth

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

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Re: [CTRL] Pakistan not Y2K ready

[Stopforth, Jamie]

 -Caveat Lector-

  Y2K isn't about computer readiness... It's all political.  It's the
perfect excuse to call in the troops whether computers work or not.

Jamie

From Nando Media,
http://www.nando.net/noframes/story/0,2107,500062879-500103959-500457354-0,0
0.html
-
Y2K trouble predicted for Pakistan's vital services
Copyright © 1999 Nando Media
Copyright © 1999 Associated Press

By KATHY GANNON

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan (November 29, 1999 3:28 p.m. EST
http://www.nandotimes.com) - Pakistan is not prepared for the millennium
computer bug and could face a serious disruption of vital services, the head
of the country's Y2K team warned Monday.

Ijaz Khawaja said none of Pakistan's airports have fully converted their
equipment and computers to guarantee a smooth transition when computer
clocks turn from 1999 to 2000.

Moreover, the power grid in Pakistan's largest city and life-sustaining
devices at most hospitals could fail.

"First we had no money. Then we found the money, but we had no people. And
now if you could give me all the money and all the people, we don't have
enough time," Khawaja told The Associated Press.

International analysts generally classify Pakistan among the bulk of
developing countries in terms of Y2K readiness - with a moderate risk of
serious disruption of unforeseeable scope and duration.

But Pakistan's situation is in one sense singular: It has just been jolted
by a military coup.

Pakistan's Y2K preparation was painfully slow under Premier Nawaz Sharif's
tenure. When the military deposed him and took control on Oct. 12, all Y2K
efforts froze, Khawaja said.

He said the nation's financial institutions, telecommunications and rail
system are Y2K compliant. And the Civil Aviation Authority promises the
airports will be ready by the end of the first week in December.

"But that doesn't give much time for testing, and we're still not sure that
they will be able to meet that deadline," he said. The airports have missed
every deadline so far, beginning with a Sept. 30 deadline when airports
worldwide were to be Y2K compliant.

The national carrier, Pakistan International Airlines, may ground all its
flights from 6 p.m. Dec. 31 until noon Jan. 1, Khawaja said.

"Aviation is an area of very grave concern to us," he said.

Elsewhere, the Karachi Electric Company has been unable to fix one of its
main generating stations to ensure it won't have problems. The company
supplies electricity to Karachi, the industrial and manufacturing heart of
Pakistan and the home to 14 million people. The problem could black out the
entire city, Khawaja said.

The contingency plan is to supply Karachi from the national power grid.
There is enough surplus electricity available, but Khawaja said the request
will have to be made well before Dec. 31.

Much of the equipment in government-run hospitals is not threatened by the
millennium bug because it does not contain computer chips. But some is at
risk and "much of that equipment is life-sustaining," Khawaja said.

"We're telling hospitals to make alternate arrangements now if they have
equipment about which they are not sure," he said.

Khawaja said his team received full assurances from the Pakistan Atomic
Energy Commission that Pakistan's one nuclear power plant is ready for Y2K.

But there was no information from the defense establishment in Pakistan,
which last year declared itself a nuclear-weapons state.

"The defense people don't talk," said Khawaja. "But the message we are
getting is that they are ready and that they have taken care of everything."

--
Dan S

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[CTRL] test

[Stopforth, Jamie]

 -Caveat Lector-


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Re: [CTRL] Contrails

[Stopforth, Jamie]

 -Caveat Lector-

 It's happening here now and almost everyone I know in the last week has had
a cold, cough, sore throat etc including myself... This is nuts.

Jamie

-Original Message-
From: C Davis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, December 02, 1999 8:12 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Contrails


 -Caveat Lector-

That happened here a few weeks ago...I got the flu. This was just one
planehigher than I have ever seen one before. The contrail stretched
across the sky.

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Re: [CTRL] Seattle scanner online

[Stopforth, Jamie]

 -Caveat Lector-

Thanks!

-Original Message-
From: Dan S [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, December 02, 1999 10:24 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [CTRL] Seattle scanner online


 -Caveat Lector-

Online Seattle police scanner: pnm://real.mp.intervu.net/scannerlive_sea
(Load into Real Audio)

Channels #WTO and #seattle on Efnet IRC are active during the evening hours.

--
Dan S

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Om

[CTRL] Y2K Plans?

[Stopforth, Jamie]

 -Caveat Lector-

http://syninfo.com/ian/PRIVATE/1999/12/01/1999120121250955.html

 \\|//
(o o)
oOOo-(_)-oOOo

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Re: [CTRL] Seattle scanner online

[Stopforth, Jamie]

 -Caveat Lector-

  Ahhh man, I'm not getting anything but bums and thugs stuff.  Nothing on
the WTO situation.

Jamie

-Original Message-
From: Stopforth, Jamie [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, December 02, 1999 10:53 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Seattle scanner online


 -Caveat Lector-

Thanks!

-Original Message-
From: Dan S [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, December 02, 1999 10:24 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [CTRL] Seattle scanner online


 -Caveat Lector-

Online Seattle police scanner: pnm://real.mp.intervu.net/scannerlive_sea
(Load into Real Audio)

Channels #WTO and #seattle on Efnet IRC are active during the evening hours.

--
Dan S

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Om

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Re: [CTRL] The Ark of the Covenant

[Stopforth, Jamie]

 -Caveat Lector-

Uh huh...

-Original Message-
From: C Davis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, November 22, 1999 7:58 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [CTRL] The Ark of the Covenant


 -Caveat Lector-

It mattersits a way to communicate with the gods or God.

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Re: [CTRL] Are Copiers used to Track us?

[Stopforth, Jamie]

 -Caveat Lector-

  I agree that measures should be taken to put a stop to counterfeiting but
at the same time, it seems you give them an inch and they'll take a mile.
In other words, I would guess this wouldn't be used to only track
counterfeiters... Maybe even track those who copy information contrary to
the Elitist point of view and so on and soforth...

Jamie

-Original Message-
From: Kelly [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, November 22, 1999 11:50 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Are Copiers used to Track us?


 -Caveat Lector-

Kris Millegan wrote:

 Can this be confirmed? Is this a true statement by the kinko employee? Any
 copier techs out there?

Isn't it part of the mandate of the Secret Service to investiagte
counterfiting?  I remember when the colour copiers came out there were
problems with people photocopying money.  So perhaps this "invisible
code" is a means of tracking down criminals if they attempt to pass off
'funny money'?

Kelly

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Re: [CTRL] Anagrams

[Stopforth, Jamie]

 -Caveat Lector-

   Or...
 Mother-in-law   Woman Hitler
 Eleven plus two Twelve plus one
 Princess Diana  End Is A Car Spin

 Year Two Thousand   A Year To Shut Down

Jamie


In a message dated 99-11-16 07:34:59 EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Consider the following anagram:

EvangelistEvil's Agent


  JehovahHah -- JOVE!

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Re: [CTRL] Students Are Following the President's Example - A Lib eral ...

[Stopforth, Jamie]

 -Caveat Lector-

Amen! I've heard it said that we need a better world for our children, when
actually we need better children for the world.

Jamie



\And if everyone in America paid as much attention to the children as
\they do to Clinton's sex life, everyone's children would be much better
\off.

\Tenorlove,
\whose children are, under her watchful eye, doing their math: I gave
\them the results of yesterday's DuraLube 500 auto race as raw data: the
\name of each driver, how many laps he completed, and his total time. We
\already know the race was 500 miles. With this data, they are
\calculating each driver's average speed. After math, we will make lunch
\together (soup/salad/sandwich), then go out  spend the afternoon
\raking leaves.

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Re: [CTRL] 'Our own image'

[Stopforth, Jamie]

 -Caveat Lector-

Those dang aliens, they're such liars.

-Original Message-
From: MICHAEL SPITZER [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, October 29, 1999 1:11 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [CTRL] 'Our own image'


 -Caveat Lector-

On Fri, 29 Oct 1999, earthman wrote:

  -Caveat Lector-

 Of course, I should have realised. Thanks so much for your insight


LOL!  My thoughts exactly!  What an erudite dude, huh?

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Re: [CTRL] 'Our own image'

[Stopforth, Jamie]

 -Caveat Lector-

The answer is obvious.



Hi guys, I thought I would throw this one to the panel before replying

Peter

Hi Peter,

Hope you are well.  I have a question for you.

In the Bible it says that God made man is 'Our own image'.  If God was the
Annunaki, and the Annunaki were reptoids, then how come they made man
humanoid?

Tis a puzzlement?  Any answers?  Maybe you can post the question...will
be interesting hearing the answer.

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gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] The Omega Code

[Stopforth, Jamie]

 -Caveat Lector-

 Is this message to be interpreted as fact, or fiction?

Jamie


The Omega Code -

What message is ultimately sent by this movie?

Is this movie to be interpreted as fact, fiction or something in-
between by Christians?

I've overheard several conversations from people that have seen the
movie that now appear to be incorporating the theory of the "Bible
Code" as "gospel" into their personal belief systems.

The wholesale marketing by several religious groups, going so far as to
buy tickets for their youth groups, reinforces this.

I suggest that a healthy consideration and explanation by these groups
to their youth is in order.

I also note with dismay, that the star of this film, Casper Van Dien,
also is the star of a movie released a few days ago to video (after the
Omega Code) called Modern Vampires. A movie which I rented based on his
performance in the Omega Code.

This is the ACTOR who says "save me Jesus" in the Omega Code.

Modern Vampires
A
HREF="http://www.starguideweb.com/OCTOBER/modern_vampires.html"http://www.
starguideweb.com/OCTOBER/modern_vampires.html/A

In Modern Vampires (R-Rated), Casper Van Dien is a vampire that uses
four-letter-words, has intercourse with another vampire on top of a car
and at the closing of the movie strolls into the night with his new
girlfriend and their newly acquired lesbian lover.

There are dangers in "going Hollywood" that should be adequately
considered.

Impressionable children should be counseled on the dangers of confusing
fact with fiction and actors with real-life characters.

Some adults also could use this counseling.


Sent via Deja.com A HREF="http://www.deja.com/"http://www.deja.com//A
Before you buy.

-
Aloha, He'Ping,
Om, Shalom, Salaam.
Em Hotep, Peace Be,
Omnia Bona Bonis,
All My Relations.
Adieu, Adios, Aloha.
Amen.
Roads End

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and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and
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gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to
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be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
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Om

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
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screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] Payne Stewart

[Stopforth, Jamie]

 -Caveat Lector-

Well, remember Clinton was out smacking balls around in the dark the other
day...  Maybe after he realized how bad he was at Golf he uhhh had to take
it out on someoneOr something...

Jamie

-Original Message-
From: Tenorlove [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, October 25, 1999 2:25 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [CTRL] Payne Stewart


 -Caveat Lector-

The PGA has confirmed that professional golfer Payne Stewart was killed
today in a suspicious plane crash. Details are all over the various
media. My question is: what did he do to piss off Clinton?

Tenorlove
__
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
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screeds are not allowed. Substance-not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and
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frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to
readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
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Om

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] Black Sun...Something interesting...Read.

[Stopforth, Jamie]

 -Caveat Lector-

  The picture displayed here showing the "thing" with the sword piercing the
dove Look at the sword carefully...  It's a shriners sword.  This sword
is a rather common symbol within the Mason community.  What do you all
think?

Jamie

-Original Message-
From: Michael F. Corbin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, October 18, 1999 12:20 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Black Sun


Here is another picture attached.  This picture is of the mural out at the
airport.  Please notice the sabre and where it is positioned to the
dove.  The "thing" that is standing there is wearing what appears to be a
gas mask or a biological warfare-type apparatus, however it also appears to
blend into his face, possibly implying something demonic.  What is
interesting is that a dove is representative of Christ or the Holy Spirit
in Christianity and you will notice that the sabre appears to be piercing
the dove in the rectal area.

Personally, I find this art repulsive and in very poor taste for a public
facility, but I may be too sensitive.  Thoughts or ideas?

Mike

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
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Om

[CTRL] Black Sun... Meanings of these Pictures..?

[Stopforth, Jamie]

 -Caveat Lector-

 This picture here. http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/Denver3.htm   Shows 3
women... Laying down or dead as most people don't sleep on bricks.  Notice
one is an American Indian,  the other an African American and I'm not sure
what the other one is...  Any of you have any ideas?  Also. Why no men
pictured in any of these? They're all just women and children.  It appears
to me that the women are being marched off to somewhere without their
husbands... Also, notice the first woman, she's upset at something.  If you
ask me her child doesn't look to be in good health or living for that
matter... Ideas?


Jamie

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] Black Sun...Something interesting...Read.

[Stopforth, Jamie]

 -Caveat Lector-

  But when you look at the possibilities of Denver having underground
tunnels connecting an underground city, with mason symbology located through
out the airport, you definitely have reason to believe that these murals
depict something of an "elitist" mindset.  Sure we may be reading too much
into them, but then again.

Jamie


-Original Message-
From: Tatman, Robert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 1999 11:37 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Black Sun...Something interesting...Read.


 -Caveat Lector-

I don't think the artist had anything that sinister in mind. The "Shriner's
sword" in the mural is actually sort of a scimitar, borrowed from the
artist's memories of childhood "Sindbad" and "Ali Baba" storybooks. At the
risk of being accused of complicity with the NWO, I have to say that I think
people are reading much too much into some admittedly bizarre examples of
modern public art. This stuff is obscure, probably deliberately obscure,
definitely elitist...but there's no occult significance to it other than
what we manage to read into it. This discussion makes me think of a piece in
a sculpture garden in Philadelphia's Fairmount Park, which shows a tall,
heavily muscled Amurrican pioneer type, rendered a la 1930's Rockwell Kent,
posed with a rather strange eagle...in such a way that the "pioneer" appears
to be, shall we say, engaged in an "unnatural act" with the eagle. The
meaning of an art work is, after all, in the mind of the beholder.

 -Original Message-
 From: Stopforth, Jamie [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 1999 9:41 AM
 To:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject:  Re: [CTRL] Black Sun...Something interesting...Read.

  -Caveat Lector-

   The picture displayed here showing the "thing" with the sword piercing
 the
 dove Look at the sword carefully...  It's a shriners sword.  This
 sword
 is a rather common symbol within the Mason community.  What do you all
 think?

 Jamie



DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
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screeds are not allowed. Substance-not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and
outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to
readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
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screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] Black Sun - In depth website here...

[Stopforth, Jamie]

 -Caveat Lector-

  Check this out...
http://www.anomalous-images.com/christo.html

Jamie

-Original Message-
From: C Davis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, October 18, 1999 6:59 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Black Sun - What the hell?


 -Caveat Lector-

The Denver Airport is very strange...why all the death and destruction? Why
the Masonic symbols? Denver is the center of this country...maybe it is the
NWO city...

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
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screeds are not allowed. Substance-not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and
outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to
readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] Fw: Smokers Fired

[Stopforth, Jamie]

 -Caveat Lector-

  To be quite honest.  I'm tired of having to breath that stuff.  It happens
numerous times when I'm walking out to my car or just anywhere outside...
Smoking shouldn't be illegal.  But it shouldn't be done in public where
others have breath it.
If you want to commit a slow suicide by all means do it.  But I'm not
following you.

Jamie

-Original Message-
From: Kathleen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, October 11, 1999 4:34 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Fw: Smokers Fired


 -Caveat Lector-

On 11 Oct 99, at 15:16, Stopforth, Jamie wrote:

  -Caveat Lector-

 Good, get rid of the smokers.



We'd be better off to get rid of the busybodies and bigots who want
to control what people do on their own time to their own bodies.

The difference between your statement and that of good German
citizens who said "Good, get rid of the Jews" is only one of degree.

"Every reform is only a mask under cover of which
a more terrible reform, which dares not name
itself, advances." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
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and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and
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be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
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Om

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
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screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
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be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Fw: Smokers Fired

[Stopforth, Jamie]

 -Caveat Lector-

And then let's get rid of recreational drinkers.  Alcohol is far more
harmful
than tobacco and is implicated in most crimes of violence.  Make possession
of a beer a felony, or if that is deemed too severe, just tax alcohol until
a
sixpack costs consumers $29.99 ...


  As a matter of fact, it's been proven that alcohol in and of itself isn't
bad and could actually be good for the liver if not abused...  But who
doesn't abuse it right?  I don't believe smoking any kind of tobacco has
this attribute.  Smoke a little and it's good for you... Nope.  All smoking
of tobacco is bad.  So you see, it's not the alcohol that's bad it's the
person with a lack of responsibility who abuses it.  We all know the
ramifications of drinking to much... It's not like a drunk driver can say,
"Well golly gee! I didn't know that would happen!"  Back to smoking in
public...  It shouldn't be done where it can affect others.  And about this
second hand smoke stuff...  If smoking through a cigarette with a filter is
detrimental to your health then why would smoke not passing through the
filter not be detrimental?  It's common sense that second hand smoke is just
as bad, if not worse.  We all have rights in this country, and one of those
rights is to not have our rights infringed upon.  You know, like good
health.  I agree my first statement was rather blunt.  But this email came
after I had to walking through a wall of smoke **outside**...  It was my
frustration talking at that point.  I guess smelling like an ashtray isn't
that bad.

Jamie

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
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and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
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Re: [CTRL] Fw: Smokers Fired

[Stopforth, Jamie]

 -Caveat Lector-

Good, get rid of the smokers.

-Original Message-
From: Kathleen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, October 11, 1999 2:40 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [CTRL] Fw: Smokers Fired


 -Caveat Lector-

--
INTERESTING QUOTE:  "...the Florida Supreme Court upheld the
rule. The
court said the lower insurance costs outweighed the privacy issue."
--

Source:  Palm Beach Post
http://www.gopbi.com/partners/pbpost/epaper/editions/saturday/new
s_2.h
tml

Boca may stub out smokers

By Monika Gonzalez, Palm Beach Post Staff Writer
Saturday, October 9, 1999

BOCA RATON -- Marlboro men need not apply.

 The city is aiming to ban the hiring of smokers for all jobs, and new
employees caught smoking on or off duty would be fired.

 The anti-smoking rule -- already in effect for about 700 city
 employees

through union contracts for police, firefighters and blue-collar
workers -- is expanded to all 1,100-odd employees in revamped
personnel policies to be reviewed by city council members Tuesday.

 Smoking is already off-limits in Boca Raton government buildings and
one city park, but the new rule would extend into an employee's home
and entire life. Workers already on the payroll may continue to smoke
on their free

time. As may council members: Mayor Carol Hanson is a longtime smoker,
and at least two other council members smoke occasionally.

 Officials are proposing the citywide ban because fewer smokers means
lower health insurance premiums for all employees. While such a
measure is not

common among municipal governments, it is practiced in several cities
including Coral Gables, North Miami and Clinton, Iowa.

 The American Civil Liberties Union contested the no-more-smokers rule
in North Miami as a violation of state privacy laws, but the Florida
Supreme Court upheld the rule. The court said the lower insurance
costs outweighed the privacy issue.

 "The ACLU's position is that it's improper for the government to
 punish

people for a perfectly legal activity conducted in the privacy of
their own home," said Andy Kayton, legal director of the ACLU of
Florida. "Where does the line get drawn when you're talking about
legal activities?"

 Jackie Miller of St. Petersburg, president of Florida's Smokers'
 Rights

Association, agreed: "I don't think it has any bearing on how a person
does their job. It's an outrageous idea."

 Kayton said the policy opens the door to ban people who have consumed
alcohol, are overweight, had unprotected sex or even ate red meat in
the

last year. Although it may sound farfetched, newspaper reports show
one city -- Athens, Ga., contemplated banning applicants with high
cholesterol.

 Boca Raton police officer and union President Rick Barnett said the
no-smokers policy is for the best in the long run, but it does limit
the

pool of applicants.

 Boca Raton lost a good police officer because of the ban, Barnett
 said.
An
experienced officer left the department to work at a private business
and later returned to town and reapplied. But because he had smoked a
cigar at a function, he wasn't eligible because he had not been
smoke-free for a year.

 The expanded rule to be considered Tuesday doesn't say how long new
hires must be smoke-free.

 "We would love to see a number of places become smoke-free because it
would protect people from . . . second-hand smoke," said Sonja
Bradwell, a program specialist with the state Department of Health
office. But she said the hiring policy seems drastic. "To me, it
sounds like it could be a case of discrimination."

 Boca Raton Councilwomen Wanda Thayer and Susan Whelchel said Friday
they support the idea.

 "It's probably a prudent step," Whelchel said. "Does that make
 smokers
happy? Probably not. It's like saying I can't hire you if you don't
type. Then don't apply."

 Staff researchers Dorothy Shea and Nicole Puccinelli Ortega
 contributed
to
this report.

[EMAIL PROTECTED]






This country needs more unemployed politicians.

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frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
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gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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