See below
Peter West
How can these things be?
On 28/07/2011, at 9:59 PM, Vincent Hennebert wrote:
On 27/07/11 13:39, Jeremias Maerki wrote:
On 27.07.2011 12:09:58 Vincent Hennebert wrote:
So we're back to nitpicking.
Oh, absolutely not!
I actually find it very worrying that you
I suppose you have JAI installed in both 6u17 and 6u18/24?
Peter West
Why do you seek the living among the dead? He is not here, but is risen.
On 04/05/2011, at 8:17 PM, Ognjen Blagojevic wrote:
Hi,
To keep issue alive, I reported a bug:
Ognjen,
You may well have it, depending on where you got your Java installation. I see
you're on windows, so it's probably already included. With linux, I used to
have to install it myself, but I've been using OS X for a while now, so I don't
know about either Windows or linux any more.
The
You may find some of the code in the now-stagnant SourceForge Folio project
useful. It has lots of enums defined, for example. It is MPL, but just let me
know and I'll change the licence.
Peter West
He said to them, Come and see.
On 10/11/2010, at 2:35 AM, bugzi...@apache.org wrote:
I'm puzzled by this discussion. AFAIK, Java has rejected moving to 32 bits in
Java 5. Instead, they are supporting supplementary characters. There's a
discussion here:
http://java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/Intl/Supplementary/
Peter West
Lord, to whom shall we go?
On 21/05/2010,
interfaces as noted above that need to be upgraded as well.
if you like, I can fold this into my present work, or assign it a new bug
number (which may be the best for tracking purposes);
regards,
glenn
On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 7:31 AM, Peter B. West li...@pbw.id.au wrote:
I'm puzzled
Yep, they sure are. Does it hurt to spell it out? Like redundant
parentheses, it does no harm, and makes the code just that little bit
more explicit, for the dodos like me.
Peter
On 20/10/2009, at 8:13 PM, Vincent Hennebert wrote:
Hi,
Just a nit:
+private boolean useCatalogResolver
On 23/09/2009, at 8:18 PM, Vincent Hennebert wrote:
Hi Tony,
Tony Graham wrote:
On Mon, Sep 21 2009 23:30:17 +0100, jonathan.levin...@intersystems.com
wrote:
...
If inherit is allowed to be a value then the grammar truly becomes
ambiguous
since each of these can have the value inherit
On 23/09/2009, at 12:13 AM, Jonathan Levinson wrote:
Hi Vincent,
You make excellent points, however for font-style, font-variant and
font-weight the initial value (the default value) is normal, not
inherit.
http://www.w3.org/TR/2001/REC-xsl-20011015/slice7.html#font-style
On 03/09/2009, at 6:51 PM, Max Berger wrote:
Dear Fop Devs,
Peter B. West schrieb:
Java 6 is, as yet, and possibly indefinitely, unavailable for 32 bit
machines. Apple's commitment to Java has slackened off considerably.
Peter
Just for the mail archives: Snow Leopard (Mac OS X 10.6
On 24/08/2009, at 10:04 PM, Laurent Caillette wrote:
Hi all,
A few thoughts about Java 1.5 support and FOP version numbers.
I suggest to keep the emblematic 1.0 for the full support of the
XSLT-1.0 spec. I don't see any problem with FOP version hitting 0.99
or even 0.123 one day.
Java
On 20/08/2009, at 7:41 PM, Jeremias Maerki wrote:
There we go again. ;-) I can understand the wishes and cravings of the
developers (feeling them myself), but as I've said before: such a
decision should be made with the user community in the back, i.e.
there
should be another user survey to
Andreas Delmelle wrote:
On 21 Jan 2009, at 11:45, Peter B. West wrote:
It might be a good idea to set svn:ignore properties on ant.jar and the
offo jars in lib. Then you could tell interested parties to drop those
jars into lib as part of the preparation for building, and it's unlikely
I was interested to read the procedure outlined, but I think there is a
slightly easier way, using what NetBeans calls Free-Form Projects. When
I get a bit of time, I'll put some detail son the wiki.
--
Peter B. West http://cv.pbw.id.au/
Folio http://defoe.sourceforge.net/folio/folio.html
Andreas Delmelle wrote:
On 19 Jan 2009, at 13:42, Ulrich Mayring wrote:
Hi Ulrich
Ulrich Mayring wrote:
Peter B. West wrote:
You must set up hyphenation from the OFFO site.
http://offo.sourceforge.net/hyphenation/
Ok thanks, the build works now. Maybe the SetupGuide could be updated
Jeremias Maerki wrote:
Well, using the CLASSPATH env variable begs for trouble. I consider it a
mistake of Java 1.0 that has been carried on until today. Good thing you
found the problem.
BTW, Peter, are you aware that the Folio website reports an error?
I wasn't aware of that, thanks.
Jeremias Maerki wrote:
I have no idea what's going wrong. It seems to work for everyone else.
In my log output with Ant 1.7 and the -d option I get different log
output. For example, Ant includes the full classpath for the javac
task in the resourcegen target which doesn't seem to happen on
classes in the
build directory. I don't assume you've manipulated the basedir
property because that would probably have led to problems earlier in the
script. I'd run the Ant script with -d or -v to see what's going on.
On 24.12.2008 01:36:08 Peter B. West wrote:
Yes, I know. When I checkout I get
an import error for the following:
import org.apache.fop.fonts.*;
and
import javax.media.*
However, I am able to do a clean build in ant. How can I resolve these in
netbeans?
Thanks,
Phil
--
Peter B. West http://cv.pbw.id.au/
Folio http://defoe.sourceforge.net/folio/
Jeremias Maerki wrote:
Ok, here's the final patch I'd propose to fix the memory leak. I've seen
no measurable performance degradation compared to the base revision and
no multi-threading problems. The memory leak is fixed and the number of
stale references remains low.
Feedback welcome.
What
Jeremias Maerki wrote:
There's a lot of AND-ing of hash codes to determine the segments and
buckets and that's much easier to handle if you have a power of 2 and
can shift bits around.
On 22.08.2008 16:22:05 Peter B. West wrote:
Jeremias Maerki wrote:
Ok, here's the final patch I'd propose
straightforward. All the jars in lib and lib/build + the
codegen classes. So something very odd is going on.
--
Peter B. West http://cv.pbw.id.au/
Folio http://defoe.sourceforge.net/folio/
Peter B. West wrote:
Bones wrote:
In the end, I got it working by making sure that the build process
was using the exact same XML parser and XSLT processor that were
distributed with FOP. - How do I do that with in ant?
You're doing it. It's controlled by the classpath set up by ant
} build.gensrc.dir ${build.gensrc.dir}/echo
immediately in front of line 352 to verify. It could be a mixed forward
and backslashed path.
Phil
Peter B. West wrote:
bonekrusher wrote:
I will test this out later today on my home PC. I get a different set of
errors on different machines.
In the mean
, not
the array itself. (Note that this obviously also has its drawbacks;
sometimes, you just /need/ an independent copy...)
Come 1.5, you get StringBuilder.
--
Peter B. West http://cv.pbw.id.au/
Folio http://defoe.sourceforge.net/folio/
into a badly formed file:
URL within the ant task.
--
Peter B. West http://cv.pbw.id.au/
Folio http://defoe.sourceforge.net/folio/
in Windows? In
linux, you execute
which ant
or
type ant
Can you do the equivalent on your system.
Can you list the files and file sizes of lib and lib/build?
--
Peter B. West http://cv.pbw.id.au/
Folio http://defoe.sourceforge.net/folio/
differences between 0.94 and trunk?
--
Peter B. West http://cv.pbw.id.au/
Folio http://defoe.sourceforge.net/folio/
, but not all URIs are URLs, I believe your
example above is slightly incorrect.
Jeremias Maerki
It's a SystemId. The class includes setSystemId(...) and
setPublicId(...), so a URL looks right. One way to find out.
--
Peter B. West http://cv.pbw.id.au/
Folio http://defoe.sourceforge.net/folio/
I can recommend it.
Max Berger wrote:
Vincent,
it may (or may not) make sense to move to commons-cli:
http://commons.apache.org/cli/introduction.html
which addresses this (and other problems) very well, but this would mean
a lot more work.
Max
--
Peter B. West http://cv.pbw.id.au/
Folio
Andreas Delmelle wrote:
On Jul 9, 2008, at 09:39, Peter B. West wrote:
Jeremias Maerki wrote:
Am I the only one concerned about backwards-compatibility here?
It's not my *concern*, but deliberately breaking compatibility does
seem pretty silly.
Yeah, so one night I thought: Let's see
couldn't
understand all of that xml.
--
Peter B. West http://cv.pbw.id.au/
Folio http://defoe.sourceforge.net/folio/
- which has always been challenging - just gets
weirder and weirder.
--
Peter B. West http://cv.pbw.id.au/
Folio http://defoe.sourceforge.net/folio/
) {
return false;
} else if (pagePosition == EN_LAST) {
return false;
}
} else {
if (pagePosition == EN_FIRST) {
return false;
} else if (pagePosition == EN_LAST) {
return false;
}
}
--
Peter B. West http://cv.pbw.id.au/
Folio http
1.1's
page-position=only. This attribute is not supported in XSL 1.0. I think they
just went ahead and built the framework to support it, but it is not actually implemented
yet.
Peter B. West [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/08/08 6:23 PM
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
https://issues.apache.org/bugzilla
in project.xml.
All targets depend on any necessary arguments being set as the
properties arg0..arg9. arg0 must be set for the targets to execute. The
other args are optional.
I use these by setting the targets in build-local.properties, an example
of which is also attached.
--
Peter B. West
Peter B. West wrote:
For NetBeans 6.1.
Attached is a gzipped nbproject directory including ide-targets.xml and
ide-file-targets.xml. ide-targets.xml includes a 'run-nb' target for
running a transform with an arbitrary set of arguments. This target is
associated with the project 'run' menu
here?
I haven't used Ruby myself, but it may be worth-while to check NetBeans.
There is quite a lot of support for Ruby finding its way into NB. Check
this page from the wiki. http://wiki.netbeans.org/RubyDebugging
--
Peter B. West http://cv.pbw.id.au/
Folio http://defoe.sourceforge.net/folio/
people look at that
often. Having those tools as IDE plug-ins is much more useful. But that
needs to be set up by every dev him/herself.
As Karen has been inactive for some time now, I can only assume that one
of the developers wants a sex change. Who is it?
--
Peter B. West http://cv.pbw.id.au
how many
systems support the first and not the second.
The decision for FOP should be based, not on the end-of-life for a
particular version, but on the pragmatic reality of 1.5 vs 1.6 support.
That's the second glass of wine for the evening.
--
Peter B. West http://cv.pbw.id.au/
Folio http
of breakBeforeServed?
--
Peter B. West http://cv.pbw.id.au/
Folio http://defoe.sourceforge.net/folio/
active people
here. Some hints would be great (on- or off-list). Please be frank.
Thanks and my apologies for the ugly scene!
Jeremias Maerki (whose boss is Jeremias and to a certain degree the XML
Graphics PMC, but certainly not Vincent as an individual)
--
Peter B. West http://cv.pbw.id.au
Mark C. Allman wrote:
On Tue, 2007-10-30 at 13:32 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Try
OLD_IFS=$IFS
IFS=
find ${FOP}/lib -name -name '*.jar'|while read jarfile
do
if [ -z $LOCALCLASSPATH ] ; then
LOCALCLASSPATH=$jarfile
else
' commit, and I was surprised to not find it in the 1.4 standard
library. A good thing it finally got added.
Not a pattern. It's an object cache.
--
Peter B. West http://cv.pbw.id.au/
Folio http://defoe.sourceforge.net/folio/
people that FOP runs faster
on JDK 1.5.
J.Pietschmann
FOP should run markedly faster on 1.6 without any changes. Just about
everything else does.
--
Peter B. West http://cv.pbw.id.au/
Folio http://defoe.sourceforge.net/folio/
I haven't seen anything from Andreas for some time now, and I was
wondering if anyone had heard from him privately.
--
Peter B. West http://cv.pbw.id.au/
Folio http://defoe.sourceforge.net/folio/
Andreas L Delmelle wrote:
On Mar 10, 2007, at 15:34, Vincent Hennebert wrote:
Thomas Zastrow a écrit :
snip /
But I haven't a directory called gensrc? I downloaded the SVN-version
just minutes ago.
This directory contains source files automatically generated during the
build process. To
pages at http://defoe.sourceforge.net/hyfo/hyfo.html
--
Peter B. West http://cv.pbw.id.au/
Folio http://defoe.sourceforge.net/folio/
On Tue, 2007-01-09 at 16:52 +0100, Vincent Hennebert wrote:
Richard a écrit :
snip/
I'm also currently reading through Knuth's Digital Typography. Can anyone
point out any sections I should pay particular attention to w.r.t. FOP's
usage,
(Digital Typography caught my eyes. I'll try to
On Tue, 2006-10-10 at 12:42 +0200, Simon Pepping wrote:
On Mon, Oct 09, 2006 at 11:45:08PM +0200, J.Pietschmann wrote:
Jeremias Maerki wrote:
If anyone has any requirements for XSL-FO 2.0 which I should bring up at
the workshop in Heidelberg next week, please let me know.
More radical
On Wed, 2006-06-21 at 16:50 +0200, Jeremias Maerki wrote:
Have you tried the Disposition of Comments? I don't know how accessible
they are to Google.
They are accessible through the list archive at W3C. I've looked at
those I found but I found no listing of all XSL-related ones.
/Archives/Public/xsl-editors/2005AprJun/0028
On 21.06.2006 11:04:53 Peter B. West wrote:
On Tue, 2006-06-20 at 12:07 +0200, Luca Furini wrote:
Jeremias Maerki wrote:
On 19.06.2006 15:45:36 Luca Furini wrote:
It seems to me that the prescribed behaviour requires a keep
On Wed, 2006-06-21 at 16:24 +0200, Jeremias Maerki wrote:
On 21.06.2006 16:19:30 Peter B. West wrote:
On Wed, 2006-06-21 at 12:01 +0200, Jeremias Maerki wrote:
Thanks, Peter. I went looking for that reference but wasn't lucky. I
gave up after almost 30 minutes. Could you dig up
On Fri, 2006-05-26 at 12:54 +0100, Chris Bowditch wrote:
Peter B. West wrote:
A colleague of mine has just found this:
From PDFFontDescriptor
*/
public PDFFontDescriptor(String basefont, int ascent,
int descent, int capHeight, int flags
A colleague of mine has just found this:
From PDFFontDescriptor
*/
public PDFFontDescriptor(String basefont, int ascent,
int descent, int capHeight, int flags,
PDFRectangle fontBBox, int italicAngle,
On Fri, 2006-05-05 at 08:43 +0200, Jeremias Maerki wrote:
This is good news. I did not study the problems around non-LTR texts so
I can't say anything useful about this.
I think it is preferrable to reuse code from the Java class library if
it covers our requirements (among them: maintain
On Fri, 2006-05-05 at 10:59 +0200, Jeremias Maerki wrote:
On 05.05.2006 10:51:35 Peter B. West wrote:
On Fri, 2006-05-05 at 08:43 +0200, Jeremias Maerki wrote:
This is good news. I did not study the problems around non-LTR texts so
I can't say anything useful about this.
I think
Fop-devs,
What have you been hiding?
http://www.fopdev.org/
Peter
smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
Peter B. West wrote:
Finn Bock wrote:
[Peter B. West]
The alt-design property code was, back then, in my eyes, code written
by a person who did not intuitively create object oriented design.
...
It was, IMO, not a good fundation for further work.
Fair enough, apart from
Jeremias has sent a most magnanimous email to me. It reflects as well
on him as my imputations as to his motives reflect badly on me.
My apologies to Jeremias.
Peter
--
Peter B. West http://cv.pbw.id.au/
Folio http://defoe.sourceforge.net/folio/
smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME Cryptographic
CountryLanguageScript.java in the alt-design code for an attempt at
this. Generated from xml-lang.xml and xml-lang.xsl. No baselines.
Peter
--
Peter B. West http://cv.pbw.id.au/
Folio http://defoe.sourceforge.net/folio/
smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
On Fri, Sep 30, 2005 at 08:27:45AM +0100, Peter B. West wrote:
Jeremias Maerki wrote:
On 29.09.2005 11:58:57 Peter B. West wrote:
I can understand that some sponsors may be sensitive to divulging such
information, for at least two reasons. Firstly, the treat of being
inundated
Finn Bock wrote:
[Peter B. West]
...
That code was alt-design properties code. It seems to me that many of
the ideas and implementation details of alt-design are now sitting in
the FOP code base. This is true whether Finn ever looked at the
alt-design properties code. It ain't over yet
Manuel Mall wrote:
On Thu, 29 Sep 2005 11:50 pm, Peter B. West wrote:
Fopsters,
I've always been somewhat sceptical of the new approach to page
breaking, although I was prepared to concede that it would be a great
achievement if you pulled it off.
However, the closer the development has come
Jeremias Maerki wrote:
On 29.09.2005 11:58:57 Peter B. West wrote:
Jeremias,
I meant to ask you when you mentioned your sponsor; who is it?
I'm not at liberty to disclose that at this point.
I'm sure they're happy with the work you've put in.
Yes, they are. We've already achieved one
Thanks to Luca for his (perhaps entirely co-incidental) posting to the Wiki.
Peter
--
Peter B. West http://cv.pbw.id.au/
Folio http://defoe.sourceforge.net/folio/
smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
Luca Furini wrote:
Peter B. West wrote:
Thanks to Luca for his (perhaps entirely co-incidental) posting to the
Wiki.
Well, not entirely co-incidental! :-)
I started writing the page some time ago, but never found the time to
finish it: your message made me think I really couldn't put
Finn,
I noticed that you extracted numeric function methods as statics into a
class of their own. Was this for aesthetic or performance reasons?
Peter
--
Peter B. West http://cv.pbw.id.au/
Folio http://defoe.sourceforge.net/folio/
smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
in NumericOp to
avoid duplication of the few lines in each method.
There was no performance reasons behind that decision.
regards,
finn
Thanks Finn. I thought it might have been something you had learned
about JVMs while working on Jython.
Peter
--
Peter B. West http://cv.pbw.id.au/
Folio
, that some of the old hands have not raised this
question already.
Peter
--
Peter B. West http://cv.pbw.id.au/
Folio http://defoe.sourceforge.net/folio/
smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
are
apprehensive about that, talk to me further off-list, or to Glen (who
has communicated quite a lot with the editors, and who has popped up
again) or Victor.
Peter
--
Peter B. West http://cv.pbw.id.au/
Folio http://defoe.sourceforge.net/folio/
smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
. There have been no baseline-shifts (rescaling the
font-table doesn't count as a baseline-shift.)
Maybe.
Still seriously confused
Surely not.
Peter
--
Peter B. West http://cv.pbw.id.au/
Folio http://defoe.sourceforge.net/folio/
smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
Manuel Mall wrote:
On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 06:19 pm, Peter B. West wrote:
Manuel Mall wrote:
snip/
Peter,
thanks for your feedback. I have deleted most of my original post to
keep this to a reasonable size. Further comments inline. Just repeating
my example here:
fo:blockSome text
prove the rule, don't they? :-)
They certainly throw it into contrast.
Peter
--
Peter B. West http://cv.pbw.id.au/
Folio http://defoe.sourceforge.net/folio/
smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
Manuel Mall wrote:
PS: I can imagine Victor smiling now :-) : I told you so that not
leaving all property resolution to the LM stage is going to cause
trouble.
Not just Victor, Manuel. But please press on re-discovering the wheel.
Peter
smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME
!
Perfect, in some imperfect sense of the word.
Chris
Peter
--
Peter B. West http://cv.pbw.id.au/
Folio http://defoe.sourceforge.net/folio/
smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
Chris Bowditch wrote:
Peter B. West wrote:
snip/
Couldn't let that one go by, Chris. These issues, which were critical
to the creation of both Folio and FOray, were being thrashed out around
the beginning of 2003. You've been around long enough to know that,
haven't you? So for more than
Elliotte Harold wrote:
Peter B. West wrote:
But of course, I'm talking about Folio, which was built on a
pull-parsing model before I had ever heard of pull-parsing, because it
was the screamingly obvious thing to do. It gives me acute pleasure
to see my original design decisions vindicated
Elliotte Harold wrote:
Peter B. West wrote:
Fopsters,
Some of you may be aware of the activity going on around StAX. Java
1.6 (Mustang) was to have included JAXP 1.4, but that looks to be on
hold until Dolphin. However, StAX will be part of it, and soon
enough, SAX will be a dim memory
Elliotte Harold wrote:
Peter B. West wrote:
So I exaggerated. But how many better applications can you find me for
StAX than processing XSL-FO? If StAX has no application here, it has no
application. Is that what you're saying?
You're asking the question backwards. We should
Luca Furini wrote:
Peter B. West wrote:
Is there any design documentation about plain old line Knuth breaking,
as implemented by Luca? I see lots of stuff in the Wiki about page
breaking, but can't see the original.
As Jeremias told, there isn't much official documentation about
Jeremias Maerki wrote:
I don't do native JDK 1.5 development (i.e. no generics etc.) but
regularly compile and test with 1.5 and so far absolutely no problems.
On 17.08.2005 19:31:14 Peter B. West wrote:
How's Eclipse with 1.5 nowadays?
Thanks. When I tried it ( a while ago now
Jeremias Maerki wrote:
I can't talk for Luca, but I don't think we have explicit design docs
for that part. I think there is some useful content in the mail archives
(search for Knuth). Other than that, I realized that the algorithm
described in Knuth's Digital Typography is now in our codebase
Fop-devs,
Is there any design documentation about plain old line Knuth breaking,
as implemented by Luca? I see lots of stuff in the Wiki about page
breaking, but can't see the original.
Peter
--
Peter B. West http://cv.pbw.id.au/
Folio http://defoe.sourceforge.net/folio/
---
[This E-mail has
Jeremias Maerki wrote:
On 25.06.2005 01:34:43 Peter B. West wrote:
Jeremias Maerki wrote:
Hi Peter
On 24.06.2005 04:19:33 Peter B. West wrote:
Subversion is no unknown quantity anymore, well maybe on NetBeans.
It
just takes some time until it gains a better foothold.
Nub of the problem. I
Andreas L. Delmelle wrote:
-Original Message-
From: Peter B. West [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hi Peter,
..., and Jenni and I are moving to the UK for 12
months at the end of June, ...
Well, if you have plans to cross the channel and visit Belgium during those
12 months, be sure
will. There are a few of you in the area whom I will
contact when we pass through.
Peter
--
Peter B. West http://cv.pbw.id.au/
Folio http://defoe.sourceforge.net/folio/
http://folio.bkbits.net/ - the atTridged version
.
This is essentially what I tried to do from within FOP. It failed miserably.
I cannot afford to make that mistake again. More to come later by way of
answer to your other emails.
I have an interest in the future of FOray-Font, so my preference is
shared with Victor.
Peter
--
Peter B. West http
implementations when they are separated in the XML Graphics Commons area.
:-)
I certainly hope so.
Peter
--
Peter B. West http://cv.pbw.id.au/
Folio http://defoe.sourceforge.net/folio/
http://folio.bkbits.net/ - The atTridged version
.
Peter
--
Peter B. West http://cv.pbw.id.au/
Folio http://defoe.sourceforge.net/folio/
http://folio.bkbits.net/ - the atTridged version
an opinion, and the individuals have real
alternatives on how to proceed after disagreements.
Peter
--
Peter B. West http://cv.pbw.id.au/
Folio http://defoe.sourceforge.net/folio/
http://folio.bkbits.net/ - the atTridged version
resolved.
Peter
--
Peter B. West http://cv.pbw.id.au/
Folio http://defoe.sourceforge.net/folio/ http://folio.bkbits.net/
and Plass in Software - Practice and Experience 11
(1981), 1119-1184.
Anyone who is interested may be able to obtain a copy of the ogiginal
paper more cheaply than the book.
Peter
--
Peter B. West http://cv.pbw.id.au/
Folio http://defoe.sourceforge.net/folio/ http://folio.bkbits.net/
Jeremias Maerki wrote:
PS: Can someone please beat me?
Stick, riding crop, whip, rope, chain or plain old bare knuckles?
Peter
--
Peter B. West http://cv.pbw.id.au/
Folio http://defoe.sourceforge.net/folio/ http://folio.bkbits.net/
for distributed development.
This is actually a serious, though futile, suggestion.
Peter
--
Peter B. West http://cv.pbw.id.au/
Folio http://defoe.sourceforge.net/folio/ http://folio.bkbits.net/
95 matches
Mail list logo
