I wanted to revive the discussion inspired by NearMap, regarding making an
easier way to on-ramp new users, since it seemed to have died.
Nick wrote:
So let's bring this back to people who want to create tools to make it
easier for everyone to participate in OSM. How can we get past the
problems
On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 8:48 AM, Kai Krueger kakrue...@gmail.com wrote:
You can associate an OpenID to an existing account. You can also switch your
associated OpenID at any time (provided you are logged in) just like you can
change your password. (The OpenID is never revealed to anyone other
David Earl wrote:
Are you going to take the email address on trust? It is really very easy
to set up an OpenID provider which supplies any old email address on
request. (There are some I think you can trust in principle - we know
for example that Google and Yahoo provide verified email
Hi Guys,
The current mechanism by which Mapzen and Mapzen POI Collector users
authenticate against OSM is horrible for users. In each user test we
do this is the main area where users fall down. We have several one
star reviews on the App Store for Mapzen POI-C where users have got
lost half
On 6 August 2010 20:04, Nick Black nickbla...@gmail.com wrote:
How would the people voicing opinions in this thread feel about a hack
/ planning day when editor developers, OSM-F and the OSM server admin
team can get together to talk through each side's concerns and come up
with a plan that
Nick Black wrote:
The current mechanism by which Mapzen and Mapzen POI Collector
users authenticate against OSM is horrible for users.
At the risk of being really hand-wavy and imprecise, I'd just say: Twitter's
OAuth UI is really exemplary. It's a great demonstration of how to get it
right.
Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net writes:
Nick Black wrote:
The current mechanism by which Mapzen and Mapzen POI Collector
users authenticate against OSM is horrible for users.
At the risk of being really hand-wavy and imprecise, I'd just say: Twitter's
OAuth UI is really exemplary.
SteveC steve at asklater.com writes:
The reason is pretty simple - the first line of copyright defense if we get an
email from TeleAtlas Legal saying 'user NearMap copied our data' is that we
will remove _all_ NearMap data.
Wouldn't you tell them to get lost, since copyright doesn't apply to map
On Aug 6, 2010, at 10:38 AM, Ed Avis wrote:
SteveC steve at asklater.com writes:
The reason is pretty simple - the first line of copyright defense if we get
an
email from TeleAtlas Legal saying 'user NearMap copied our data' is that we
will remove _all_ NearMap data.
Wouldn't you tell
On 7 August 2010 03:04, SteveC st...@asklater.com wrote:
Sounds like you've never been to court. Who's right or wrong is a secondary
consideration here, the first order of magnitude issue is who has more money.
We lose on that one.
So basically anyone can make any copyright claim they like
On Aug 6, 2010, at 11:09 AM, John Smith wrote:
On 7 August 2010 03:04, SteveC st...@asklater.com wrote:
Sounds like you've never been to court. Who's right or wrong is a secondary
consideration here, the first order of magnitude issue is who has more
money. We lose on that one.
So
On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 12:14 PM, SteveC st...@asklater.com wrote:
On Aug 6, 2010, at 11:09 AM, John Smith wrote:
On 7 August 2010 03:04, SteveC st...@asklater.com wrote:
Sounds like you've never been to court. Who's right or wrong is a
secondary consideration here, the first order of
On 7 August 2010 03:14, SteveC st...@asklater.com wrote:
If they have several orders of magnitude more money then probably the
cost/benefit tradeoff would suggest throwing out the data is the better
option.
Even wikipedia doesn't take that attitude, they're currently being
threatened by the
On Aug 6, 2010, at 4:21 PM, John Smith wrote:
On 7 August 2010 03:14, SteveC st...@asklater.com wrote:
If they have several orders of magnitude more money then probably the
cost/benefit tradeoff would suggest throwing out the data is the better
option.
Even wikipedia doesn't take that
On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 5:21 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote:
On 7 August 2010 03:14, SteveC st...@asklater.com wrote:
If they have several orders of magnitude more money then probably the
cost/benefit tradeoff would suggest throwing out the data is the better
option.
Even
Hi,
John Smith wrote:
Even wikipedia doesn't take that attitude, they're currently being
threatened by the FBI over a SVG image.
Nothing to do with copyright, and thus completely irrelevant in this
discussion.
Bye
Frederik
--
Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09
On 7 August 2010 08:56, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:
Hi,
John Smith wrote:
Even wikipedia doesn't take that attitude, they're currently being
threatened by the FBI over a SVG image.
Nothing to do with copyright, and thus completely irrelevant in this
discussion.
Wikimedia is
On 7 August 2010 08:27, Ian Dees ian.d...@gmail.com wrote:
That's different because the FBI is quite obviously wrong. There is a law
that says they are wrong.
The FBI are asserting they're right, and wikimedia are asserting
they're right, it's up to a court to be the adjudicator.
Almost any
From how I understand it, NearMap's editor is so simple (can't do complex
edits) and is often used for one-off edits that I think how NearMap does it
is pretty spot on in trying to get the most number of contributions. What I
guess NearMap should do more is to explain about OSM more clearly if a
On Sat, Aug 7, 2010 at 7:43 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote:
On 7 August 2010 08:56, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:
Hi,
John Smith wrote:
Even wikipedia doesn't take that attitude, they're currently being
threatened by the FBI over a SVG image.
Nothing to
So let's bring this back to people who want to create tools to make it easier
for everyone to participate in OSM. How can we get past the problems and make
it easy for people to map?
Auth and new mappers workshop ++
Nick
On 7 Aug 2010, at 01:03, Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.com wrote:
On 7 August 2010 07:57, Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.com wrote:
From how I understand it, NearMap's editor is so simple (can't do complex
edits) and is often used for one-off edits that I think how NearMap does it
is pretty spot on in trying to get the most number of contributions. What I
A couple of days ago I wanted to register with some site... ah, yes, it was
Hutch. I was okay about setting up a username and password, but they
offered me the ability to authenticate via Facebook - three clicks and I was
done. Very, very easy and didn't trigger my personal (admittedly quite
Ben,
Ben Last wrote:
Actually, you can message them, since they are us (NearMap). Which
is my point; the edits come from us, and we're the ones taking on the
necessary responsibility. This is us, as a company aiming to support
OSM, trying to remove barriers from contributions; that's going to
On 5 August 2010 14:44, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:
You're trying to remove two barriers at the same time, both quite
unrelated:
1. The barrier of users having to sign up to OSM;
2. The barrier of a (supposedly) complicated editing process.
An interesting take on it :) But I
On 5 August 2010 16:44, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:
On the other hand, doing 1 in the above, is relatively cheap; we could do
that ourselves at any time by, say, allowing users to log in to OSM with any
OpenID credentials (just like we do on help.openstreetmap.org). I guess we
On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 9:13 AM, Ben Last ben.l...@nearmap.com wrote:
Actually... I'm not sure you would :) My reasoning is thus; OSM members are
interested in mapping, and relish the power of JOSM or Potlatch (I do
myself). You don't want a simpler editor, you want one that helps you do
OSM
Frederik Ramm wrote:
You're trying to remove two barriers at the same time, both quite
unrelated:
1. The barrier of users having to sign up to OSM;
2. The barrier of a (supposedly) complicated editing process.
No, they are not really unrelated. If 1 is prerequisite of 2 (which it is)
Ben if I read this right then you're hiding the users from OSM and we'll see a
stream of edits from NearMap which are actually from multiple users. This is
why CM/matt/others built the OAuth code so that mapzen etc didn't do that,
because it's horrific.
The reason is pretty simple - the first
On 5 August 2010 11:27, Erik Johansson e...@kth.se wrote:
On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 9:13 AM, Ben Last ben.l...@nearmap.com wrote:
Actually... I'm not sure you would :) My reasoning is thus; OSM members are
interested in mapping, and relish the power of JOSM or Potlatch (I do
myself). You don't
It seems to me we have two sides trying to reach the same end point.
Ben and NearMap want to make it easy for people to use and contribute to OSM.
Steve and Frederik want to ensure for technical and legal reasons that
the changes from NearMap users doesn't cause problems in the OSM
database.
It
On 5 August 2010 12:44, Kai Krueger kakrue...@gmail.com wrote:
Frederik Ramm wrote:
One signup page, one E-Mail
confirmation, and then click ok for the OAuth page. How often does the
modern Internet user do that every day?
Exactly that is the problem! I have to sign-up to far too many
On 05/08/10 14:23, Serge Wroclawski wrote:
Ben, why not look at the Rails code and offer an OpenID authentication
mechanism. I can't speak for the administrators, but it seems like if
some simple solution could be created that solves this ongoing issue
with OpenID, that it would solve your
On 5 August 2010 23:27, Tom Hughes t...@compton.nu wrote:
Err actually, please don't start OpenID support from scratch as we already
have a branch with more or less complete OpenID support!
Is that OpenID support from other sites, like Nearmap, or is that
OpenID support from OSM?
On 05/08/10 14:33, John Smith wrote:
On 5 August 2010 23:27, Tom Hughest...@compton.nu wrote:
Err actually, please don't start OpenID support from scratch as we already
have a branch with more or less complete OpenID support!
Is that OpenID support from other sites, like Nearmap, or is that
On 5 August 2010 23:34, Tom Hughes t...@compton.nu wrote:
On 05/08/10 14:33, John Smith wrote:
On 5 August 2010 23:27, Tom Hughest...@compton.nu wrote:
Err actually, please don't start OpenID support from scratch as we
already
have a branch with more or less complete OpenID support!
Is
On 05/08/10 14:42, John Smith wrote:
On 5 August 2010 23:34, Tom Hughest...@compton.nu wrote:
On 05/08/10 14:33, John Smith wrote:
On 5 August 2010 23:27, Tom Hughest...@compton.nu wrote:
Err actually, please don't start OpenID support from scratch as we
already
have a branch with more
On 5 August 2010 23:44, Tom Hughes t...@compton.nu wrote:
If the OpenID provider supplies sufficient data (basically an email address
and nickname) then they need do little more than click OK to accept the
details and then accept the terms.
That would probably satisfy Nearmap and others trying
JohnSmitty wrote:
Will they still need to register with OSM?
Have a look at the link to the source code I posted earlier (I know you are
a coder, so I can send you that way...).
You can also have a look at http://openid.dev.openstreetmap.org/ although
that is by now outdated, has it hasn't
On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 1:42 PM, SteveC st...@asklater.com wrote:
Ben if I read this right then you're hiding the users from OSM and we'll see
a stream of edits from NearMap which are actually from multiple users. This
is why CM/matt/others built the OAuth code so that mapzen etc didn't do
Hi,
On 5 August 2010 17:09, Andy Allan gravityst...@gmail.com wrote:
Let's imagine nearmap have been running their new editor and
'cloaking' all their users under the one account for a couple of
years, and that their editor is great and everyone wants to use it.
* I want to run a mapping
On 05/08/2010 14:44, Tom Hughes wrote:
If the OpenID provider supplies sufficient data (basically an email
address and nickname) then they need do little more than click OK to
accept the details and then accept the terms.
Are you going to take the email address on trust? It is really very easy
On 05/08/10 20:35, David Earl wrote:
Are you going to take the email address on trust? It is really very easy
to set up an OpenID provider which supplies any old email address on
request. (There are some I think you can trust in principle - we know
for example that Google and Yahoo provide
On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 3:45 AM, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote:
Ben Last wrote:
the edits that we're submitting all come from one user
(that represents NearMap) since we don't (and can't) require
users of our site to all be registered with OSM.
Whenever it has been raised in
Ben Last wrote:
I'm not sure I agree. We don't want to put barriers in the way of an
average user (and I use that term to explicitly distinguish between
the average map site user and a mapping enthusiast) making simple
corrections such as adding address information or naming un-named
streets.
Frederik Ramm wrote:
I kind of understand your situation but I think the way forward would be
to either use OpenStreetBugs or set up an OpenStreetBugs like system
yourself, maybe integrate that in your editor - so that users without an
OSM account can only place OSB markers, and those (the
On 4 August 2010 15:06, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:
Maybe worth taking a clue from Cloudmade here, who have a similar situation
with their Mapzen editor - they go through some effort to make the process
as painless as possible for their users while still requiring them to
register
Ben Last wrote:
In particular ODbL+CT will require a contractual relationship
(i.e. the contributor terms) between OSMF and the user. If
you are not exposing the user to the sign-up process, they
are not agreeing to this contract.
No, they're agreeing to terms and conditions with us. We
Ben,
Ben Last wrote:
I'm pretty certain there was some kind of web-based tag editor just before
OAuth was finally set up but I cannot find the mailing list references.
There wasn't a huge discussion back then - it was clear to everyone that
what that editor was doing could be a proof of concept
Andrzej,
You kind of have a point there with addresses and all; assume you'd just
produce your very own database of house numbers built by your users, then
release that, say, as PD or CC0. It would only be days until someone in OSM
came along and proposed to import your database into OSM, which
Hi,
On 4 August 2010 15:47, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:
You kind of have a point there with addresses and all; assume you'd just
produce your very own database of house numbers built by your users, then
release that, say, as PD or CC0. It would only be days until someone in
OSM
On 4 August 2010 15:13, andrzej zaborowski balr...@gmail.com wrote:
Let's look at it practically. If a proxy (e.g. nearmap) user commits
vandalism, there are several things OSM may want to do: 1. undo the
vandalism, 2. contact the user, 3. block the user.
For 1. it's actually better that
I'm slightly confused by all this talk about needing contractual
agreements with all the end users and the OSM-F, or needing to
identify Nearmap users to OSM-F.
OSM already has data in the database from other projects, which was
community sourced and licensed under various cc-by style licenses,
On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 4:53 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote:
I'm slightly confused by all this talk about needing contractual
agreements with all the end users and the OSM-F, or needing to
identify Nearmap users to OSM-F.
OSM already has data in the database from other
On 5 August 2010 08:02, Ian Dees ian.d...@gmail.com wrote:
I think the point that Frederik was trying to make was that this model
(bulk imported in real time) is not ideal. Ideally, we want the users
interacting directly with the OSM API rather than going through some
intermediary service.
As long as the user is traceable, contactable and blockable (by
Nearmap), and that user is clearly reminded not to copy data off other
maps, then I'd let them get on with it.
Richard
On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 11:20 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote:
On 5 August 2010 08:02, Ian Dees
On 4 August 2010 16:27, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote:
The major problem arises when, for example, a NearMap user starts correcting
300 street names using Google Maps as a source
(http://www.openstreetmap.org/blocks/10); or they make a whole bunch of
fictitious corrections a la
On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 10:20 PM, Ben Last ben.l...@nearmap.com wrote:
It's somewhat
frustrating to find this being immediately classified in the same box
as anonymous editing and/or vandalism.
I wanted to make it clear that I'm ecstatic to finally see a simple map
editor coming out. I look
On 5 August 2010 09:02, Ian Dees ian.d...@gmail.com wrote:
So let's talk about making that process easier instead of using the current
broken system.
Here we have Nearmap willing to spend time, money and other resources
to address the issue and you want to waste further resources to
discuss
On 3 August 2010 18:13, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com wrote:
Can somebody revert this edit ASAP?
Which reminds me... we at NearMap are preparing to begin rollout of OSM
editing on our site; simple operations like adding house numbers and
adding/correcting street names. Edits can be made by
On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 7:11 PM, Ben Last ben.l...@nearmap.com wrote:
On 3 August 2010 18:13, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com wrote:
Can somebody revert this edit ASAP?
Which reminds me... we at NearMap are preparing to begin rollout of OSM
editing on our site; simple operations like adding
I think I remember something like that; however, the edits that we're
submitting all come from one user (that represents NearMap) since we
don't (and can't) require users of our site to all be registered with
OSM. So we obviously don't want that single username to get banned.
What I'm after is
On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 7:37 PM, Ben Last ben.l...@nearmap.com wrote:
I think I remember something like that; however, the edits that we're
submitting all come from one user (that represents NearMap) since we
don't (and can't) require users of our site to all be registered with
OSM. So we
Ben Last wrote:
the edits that we're submitting all come from one user
(that represents NearMap) since we don't (and can't) require
users of our site to all be registered with OSM.
Um... this is the sort of stuff that really, really needs to be discussed
first.
Whenever it has been raised
On 4 August 2010 09:45, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote:
Ben Last wrote:
the edits that we're submitting all come from one user
(that represents NearMap) since we don't (and can't) require
users of our site to all be registered with OSM.
Um... this is the sort of stuff that
65 matches
Mail list logo
