Re: [Vo]:Spark plugs... thoughts and how-to?
Von: ecat builder ecatbuil...@gmail.com An: vortex-l@eskimo.com Gesendet: 20:25 Mittwoch, 30.Mai 2012 Betreff: Re: [Vo]:Spark plugs... thoughts and how-to? Brad, A quick followup on spark plugs.. I think I found what I was looking for.. A small, cheap, and simple spark gap igniter that takes 5V and produces 1/2 sparks. Less than $20 shipped. http://www.sparkfun.com/products/11218 Skip to 10:45 on the video to see it working. Some basic issues to consider: a) to me it does not seem to make very much sense to just produce a spark between two pointlike electrodes. It probably quickly melts or degenerates the target (Nanopowder, whatever). You have to distribute the ionization to an area. b) standard ignition-coil sparking is indifferent to polarity. See eg here: http://www.worldphaco.net/uploads/ELECTRONIC_IGNITION_FOR_TR_CARS.pdf Fig 9. This paper also has some very comprehensive basic circuit and coil-model. (Fig 3,4) so: b1) consider to rectify the secondary voltage, as I tried to sketch in one of my pdf's earlier on. If You do not do that, H+ direction mostly simply oscillates around the point of ionization up and down, and annihilates itself. Typical reversal times are some 130usec, which translates to small H+ travel distances. The effect is, that H+ rarely reaches the target. Maybe someone here can compute/reasonably estimate the half-life of travel distance of H+ under 10bar or such and E-field in the order of 100V/mm. I expect it to be some 100um, so the overall effect of reversing a HV-polarity would be miniscule: 1/1000th compared to when it is properly done. But maybe I'm off some orders of magnitude. Properly done, under 1bar condition average Ion lifetime could be 10mm, as one paper suggests. Then I would be a factor 100 off. But on the other hand, the precise method of HV-generation has not been revealed, which is a typical flaw in an otherwise interesting paper. Physicists/Chemists rarely have an idea of the intricacies of electronics. (sorry folks) This ofcourse could be the difference between life and death, so to say. Message: Do not go blind, if You can avoid it. c) it seems essential to me to sensibly control the ignition voltage to pressure and electrode distance. c1) in my design-concept the electrode distance is in the order of 3mm, where some 20kV should be sufficient even to generate reasonable plasma at 20bar. d) the charm of using an ignition-based design in such a manner is, that it can be easily controlled by primary voltage and pulse-frequency. e) remember: it is NOT the goal to simply produce strong sparks, but ones JUST strong enough to ionize H2, and NOT melt or in any way degenerate the structure of the target. This to me would be a strong sign of a faulty setup. f) a feedback-parameter would be to measure the primary current, which -as I would expect- rapidly increase if a continuous ion channel develops between ignition electrode and target (nano-Nickel, whatever). Maybe this is one of the control-issues our 'heroes' Rossi/DGT encounter, which can be easily seen if one does not see the problem in producing SOME sparks, but plasmas, which can be SENSIBLY controlled. If not, You either do not get an effect at all, or You have an effect too short to watch, i.e. is killed within msecs. This all applies to a 'dry process', to be precise, and is not loved by electrochemists, because they are used to 'wet' processes, involving fluids, which I, on the other hand, do not like, because they obscure the issue. Same with Nanospire/LeClair who is basically a mechanical engineer educated in cavitation and such, and builds a theory upon his experience and misses the point, that what he is doing is more akin to hot fusion. Tiny super-explosions in a WET environment! Btw, I do not see any use for a second spark-plug, except for auxiliary purposes, which are not relevant for the central task at hand. It possibly is just convenient to use another (or several) plugs to access the volume, may this be for diagnostics or whatever. Guenther
Re: [Vo]:Spark plugs... thoughts and how-to?
A quick followup on spark plugs.. I think I found what I was looking for.. A small, cheap, and simple spark gap igniter that takes 5V and produces 1/2 sparks. Less than $20 shipped. http://www.sparkfun.com/products/11218 Skip to 10:45 on the video to see it working. Would be strong enough to drive two spark plugs.. Thoughts? - Brad
Re: [Vo]:Spark plugs... thoughts and how-to?
Check out he pashen discharge curves: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Paschen_Curves.PNG and you will see that spark length is heavily dependent on the gas composition and pressure. higher pressure means shorter spark at same voltage, you won't get a 12mm spark in high pressure H2 Discharging through 2 spark plugs in parallel will not work either as the resistance drops massively as soon as a plasma channel forms diverting all current to one spark plug or other but not both. Connecting the sparkplugs in series might work but the driving circuit won't handle it as the reactor will need to be at a voltage half way between the two outputs from the sparking circuit. Unless you have a lot of additional complications with high voltage isolation capable floating power supplies. However powering the circuit with a well insulated battery might work. On 30 May 2012 19:25, ecat builder ecatbuil...@gmail.com wrote: A quick followup on spark plugs.. I think I found what I was looking for.. A small, cheap, and simple spark gap igniter that takes 5V and produces 1/2 sparks. Less than $20 shipped. http://www.sparkfun.com/products/11218 Skip to 10:45 on the video to see it working. Would be strong enough to drive two spark plugs.. Thoughts? - Brad
Re: [Vo]:Spark plugs... thoughts and how-to?
*…you will see that spark length is heavily dependent on the gas composition and pressure. Higher pressure means shorter spark at same voltage, you won't get a 12mm spark in high pressure H2* This is a good observation. The situation gets more complicated when dust is suspended in the gas. The dust will also slow down and deenergize the electrons as the electrons collide with the gas and the dust. Such collisions reduce the electron's energy making it more difficult for these electrons to ionize a molecule. Energy losses from a greater number of collisions require larger voltages for the electrons to accumulate sufficient energy to ionize all of the hydrogen atoms required to produce a plasma channel caused by an avalanche breakdown. Ions streaming past a dust particle exert a force on the dust by scattering of the ions in the electric field of the dust or by collection on the dust surface. In plasma discharge there always is a persistent ion stream either due to ambipolar diffusion in the plasma bulk or due to the electric fields in the plasma sheath. This ion drag force is one of the major forces on dust particles. It is understood qualitatively, but a complete quantitative description is still missing due to the complexity of the involved processes. The ions which arrive at the particle not only contribute to ion charging of the dust, but also transfer their momentum to the dust and thus exert the collection force on the dust. The bottom line: You can’t have enough voltage. Cheers: Axil On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 3:00 PM, Robert Lynn robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com wrote: Check out he pashen discharge curves: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Paschen_Curves.PNG and you will see that spark length is heavily dependent on the gas composition and pressure. higher pressure means shorter spark at same voltage, you won't get a 12mm spark in high pressure H2 Discharging through 2 spark plugs in parallel will not work either as the resistance drops massively as soon as a plasma channel forms diverting all current to one spark plug or other but not both. Connecting the sparkplugs in series might work but the driving circuit won't handle it as the reactor will need to be at a voltage half way between the two outputs from the sparking circuit. Unless you have a lot of additional complications with high voltage isolation capable floating power supplies. However powering the circuit with a well insulated battery might work. On 30 May 2012 19:25, ecat builder ecatbuil...@gmail.com wrote: A quick followup on spark plugs.. I think I found what I was looking for.. A small, cheap, and simple spark gap igniter that takes 5V and produces 1/2 sparks. Less than $20 shipped. http://www.sparkfun.com/products/11218 Skip to 10:45 on the video to see it working. Would be strong enough to drive two spark plugs.. Thoughts? - Brad
Re: [Vo]:Spark plugs... thoughts and how-to?
*Discharging through 2 spark plugs in parallel will not work either as the resistance drops massively as soon as a plasma channel forms diverting all current to one spark plug or other but not both.* In dusty plasma, it may take some time for the electrical resistance of the plasma to drop to the level needed to disable the second spark plug. When the dust is nano-sized, it takes a long time to charge these small sized dust particles to a high enough level to effectively reduce resistance throughout the plasma. Additional plugs might be needed to start the reaction in a rapid time frame. After the plasma has reached equilibrium the addition plug might not be needed. Cheers: Axil On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 3:00 PM, Robert Lynn robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com wrote: Check out he pashen discharge curves: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Paschen_Curves.PNG and you will see that spark length is heavily dependent on the gas composition and pressure. higher pressure means shorter spark at same voltage, you won't get a 12mm spark in high pressure H2 Discharging through 2 spark plugs in parallel will not work either as the resistance drops massively as soon as a plasma channel forms diverting all current to one spark plug or other but not both. Connecting the sparkplugs in series might work but the driving circuit won't handle it as the reactor will need to be at a voltage half way between the two outputs from the sparking circuit. Unless you have a lot of additional complications with high voltage isolation capable floating power supplies. However powering the circuit with a well insulated battery might work. On 30 May 2012 19:25, ecat builder ecatbuil...@gmail.com wrote: A quick followup on spark plugs.. I think I found what I was looking for.. A small, cheap, and simple spark gap igniter that takes 5V and produces 1/2 sparks. Less than $20 shipped. http://www.sparkfun.com/products/11218 Skip to 10:45 on the video to see it working. Would be strong enough to drive two spark plugs.. Thoughts? - Brad
Re: [Vo]:Spark plugs... thoughts and how-to?
Actually maybe you can have too much voltage. I suspect it may be more power efficient to maintain a continuous plasma channel with much lower voltages than to produce a succession of high voltage sparks. Once a plasma channel is established it can be maintained with lower voltage and more efficient AC power supplies. Take TIG welding with high voltage startup as a practical example of this. Or perhaps a Jacobs Ladder. On 30 May 2012 21:28, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: *Discharging through 2 spark plugs in parallel will not work either as the resistance drops massively as soon as a plasma channel forms diverting all current to one spark plug or other but not both.* In dusty plasma, it may take some time for the electrical resistance of the plasma to drop to the level needed to disable the second spark plug. When the dust is nano-sized, it takes a long time to charge these small sized dust particles to a high enough level to effectively reduce resistance throughout the plasma. Additional plugs might be needed to start the reaction in a rapid time frame. After the plasma has reached equilibrium the addition plug might not be needed. Cheers: Axil On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 3:00 PM, Robert Lynn robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com wrote: Check out he pashen discharge curves: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Paschen_Curves.PNG and you will see that spark length is heavily dependent on the gas composition and pressure. higher pressure means shorter spark at same voltage, you won't get a 12mm spark in high pressure H2 Discharging through 2 spark plugs in parallel will not work either as the resistance drops massively as soon as a plasma channel forms diverting all current to one spark plug or other but not both. Connecting the sparkplugs in series might work but the driving circuit won't handle it as the reactor will need to be at a voltage half way between the two outputs from the sparking circuit. Unless you have a lot of additional complications with high voltage isolation capable floating power supplies. However powering the circuit with a well insulated battery might work. On 30 May 2012 19:25, ecat builder ecatbuil...@gmail.com wrote: A quick followup on spark plugs.. I think I found what I was looking for.. A small, cheap, and simple spark gap igniter that takes 5V and produces 1/2 sparks. Less than $20 shipped. http://www.sparkfun.com/products/11218 Skip to 10:45 on the video to see it working. Would be strong enough to drive two spark plugs.. Thoughts? - Brad
Re: [Vo]:Spark plugs... thoughts and how-to?
I think it might be interesting to take a page out of the playbook of Robert Godes from Brillouin Energy. He uses a very high voltage nanosecond pulse that would melt the wire if it were any longer. The pulse is over before the wire has a chance to heat up. The same might be true for nano powder. There is an interesting article out today about extremely powerful but short laser pulses exciting Graphene. http://phys.org/news/2012-05-properties-carbon-material-graphene.html Researchers find new properties of the carbon material graphene A short laser pulse inverts the electron population of Graphene from low energy to high energy with energy gain. How this can happen is a mystery to me. Where does the energy gain come from? Nanotubes are just rolled up Graphene so the same thing should happen in nanotubes. Cheers: Axil On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 4:57 PM, Robert Lynn robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com wrote: Actually maybe you can have too much voltage. I suspect it may be more power efficient to maintain a continuous plasma channel with much lower voltages than to produce a succession of high voltage sparks. Once a plasma channel is established it can be maintained with lower voltage and more efficient AC power supplies. Take TIG welding with high voltage startup as a practical example of this. Or perhaps a Jacobs Ladder. On 30 May 2012 21:28, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: *Discharging through 2 spark plugs in parallel will not work either as the resistance drops massively as soon as a plasma channel forms diverting all current to one spark plug or other but not both.* In dusty plasma, it may take some time for the electrical resistance of the plasma to drop to the level needed to disable the second spark plug. When the dust is nano-sized, it takes a long time to charge these small sized dust particles to a high enough level to effectively reduce resistance throughout the plasma. Additional plugs might be needed to start the reaction in a rapid time frame. After the plasma has reached equilibrium the addition plug might not be needed. Cheers: Axil On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 3:00 PM, Robert Lynn robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com wrote: Check out he pashen discharge curves: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Paschen_Curves.PNG and you will see that spark length is heavily dependent on the gas composition and pressure. higher pressure means shorter spark at same voltage, you won't get a 12mm spark in high pressure H2 Discharging through 2 spark plugs in parallel will not work either as the resistance drops massively as soon as a plasma channel forms diverting all current to one spark plug or other but not both. Connecting the sparkplugs in series might work but the driving circuit won't handle it as the reactor will need to be at a voltage half way between the two outputs from the sparking circuit. Unless you have a lot of additional complications with high voltage isolation capable floating power supplies. However powering the circuit with a well insulated battery might work. On 30 May 2012 19:25, ecat builder ecatbuil...@gmail.com wrote: A quick followup on spark plugs.. I think I found what I was looking for.. A small, cheap, and simple spark gap igniter that takes 5V and produces 1/2 sparks. Less than $20 shipped. http://www.sparkfun.com/products/11218 Skip to 10:45 on the video to see it working. Would be strong enough to drive two spark plugs.. Thoughts? - Brad
Re: [Vo]:Spark plugs... thoughts and how-to?
I see you point about oscillations of the KV, although I fail to see the reason why that is neccessarily a bad thing, as far as the reaction goes. In light of Axil's recent speculations about a Carbon Nanotubes accumulating extreme charges that would break down the coulomb barrier, I have come up with a new working hypothesis on how to achieve this. I now believe that the creation of Carbon Nanotubes in abundance is critical. That is where the sparks come to play. I plan to expose Carbon Nanopowders to intense sparks to create Carbon nano tubes and other carbon allotropes. (This would be a variation of the KRA¨ TSCHMER-HUFFMAN generator used to create carbon nanotubes.) In addition, when the sparks ionize the H2 to H+ ions, hopefully the freed electrons would accumulate on the carbon nanotubes. You then need to promote collisions and contact between these H+ ions with the carbon allotropes that have hopefully accumulated the excess electrons. To me, if there are oscillations in the KV, that would cause the H+ ions, as well as other Carbon nano tubes and other Rydberg Matter to oscillate back and forth within the reaction chamber. This should promote more contact and collisions between these reactants. The more this Dust oscillates, the more likely they are to contact and initiate fusion. You want your H+ ions to be floating in the chamber, not driven to the walls (or in your case, the Ground Electrode) of the reactor. Remember, in a working reactor that is extremely hot, your Nickel nanopowder will not be sticking on the walls, but rather floating all around carried around by the turbulence. Collisions and contact are where the action is and I think your reactor design should promote this. All the better to have oscillations. I'm beginning to think that I should remove that heavy diode sink in my circuit to promote more oscillations. I humbly suggest that you might be working on the solution to the wrong problem. Jojo - Original Message - From: Guenter Wildgruber To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 5:38 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Spark plugs... thoughts and how-to? -- Von: Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com An: Vortex Vortex-l@eskimo.com Gesendet: 21:32 Dienstag, 22.Mai 2012 Betreff: Re: [Vo]:Spark plugs... thoughts and how-to? Interesting!!! Glad jojo no problem. Misunderstandings are quite normal. Anyway. Ignition coils tend to heavily oscillate on the secondary side, which is quite undesirable in the LENR case, because it tends to neutralize the direction of the ion movements. Which is irrelevant in a combustion-motor, but not with LENR. The function of my hypothetical auxiliary mesh-grid can be more easily seen if not used. See my attached sketch. Here you can see that H+ ions tend to oscillate around their point of generation and finally neutralize with high probability. The simple trick seems to be to rectify the potential , such that the H+ ions travel towards the reactant. This can be accompished a) by -well- rectification b) by applying an auxiliary potential via the mesh (a) rectifiication- would do the job , but only for a very short time. By rectification one gains a lot. The 20-10-5..kV pulses then all work in the right direction. (b) -aux mesh potential- on the other hand, only works if the time-interval between sparks is sufficiently large (1:10..1000) compared to the dominant potential (20kV) of the major pulse, which is, say, a couple of usec. So the mesh in the strict sense is not necessary, but only for fine-control or low frequency sparks (say 100msec interval). We are not there yet. best regards Guenther Attached You find a crude graphic representation of said situation.
Re: [Vo]:Spark plugs... thoughts and how-to?
Von: Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com An: Vortex Vortex-l@eskimo.com Gesendet: 7:18 Montag, 21.Mai 2012 Betreff: Re: [Vo]:Spark plugs... thoughts and how-to? Guenter, I believe your bickering is misdirected. ... Did DGT simply make a mistake and accidentally machined an extra hole on both end plates and had to plug it with a spark plug? BTW, machining a spark plug thread is more difficult than machining an ordinary pipe fitting thread, ... Spark Plug CAN deliver High Voltages into the reactor, but NOT High Current, unless it is a highly short-lived transient current spike. Jojo, Sorry if this 'kidding' term comes over as 'bickering'. It was not meant to be such. Just to be funny of sorts. Well. Did not work out, it seems. You hit me, an I feel punished. OK? Actually, in my hypothetical design there are TWO electrodes. One at about 20kV (the HV) , one at 100V (the mesh), but this does not make a difference. For purely practical matters it makes sense to me to use a high-temperature, pressure-tight feedthrough for both. (I doubt whether the DGT design has anything to do with that. My efforts in reverse-engineering greek designs are very limited) Concerning current, I calculate this as follows: Max spark-energy is 300mJ for a duration of 100usec @20kV Which gives approx 7A over that interval, being equivalent to 3kOhm, absorbing all that. I estimate the spark-electrode resistance to be in the mOhm...Ohm range, so it is negligible. (see eg the STM ignition coil driver VBG15NB22T5SP-E or the Fairchild ISL9V3040D3S ecospark) Remember, the secondary (HV-coil) (AC) resistance is in the order of 5-10kOhm, considering Skin-effect and other factors. I did not make a publishable simulation right now, -which You seem to object beforehand- Am unsure whether it makes sense, above common-sense assessments, ie, that the voltage heavily oscillates between +/- kV levels, which is meaningless in conventional ignition, but NOT in a LENR environment, where it has some peculiar effects, which are not lethal, but diminish the efficiency of the whole setup considerably. I attach another pdf to clarify the 'ignition' issue. 'ideal case'. best regards Guenther Visio-my_LENR_ignition-20120522.pdf Description: Adobe PDF document
Re: [Vo]:Spark plugs... thoughts and how-to?
What is a spark-plug anyway? Designing an apparatus means knowing as good as possible the essential components and their interaction. If You go to the junkyard and collect your arbitrary ignition electronics, ignition-coil, spark-plug, you are probably in for a surprise. Moderately modern components are evolving and are quite sophisticated. See eg here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spark_plug -- Central electrode. And here: http://www.madehow.com/Volume-1/Spark-Plug.html Same with ignition coils and assotiated electronics. For LENR-related purposes it may suffice to say that typical spark-systems develop a bipolar damped voltage at the hot electrode in the range od 10...30msec, where motorbike-systems go up to 20 000 rpm, ie 300Hz, with spark energies of 0.0xJ to 0.3J per spark. The undesirable effect in the LENR-context is the bipolarity of the voltage/ionization direction, but is not killing the effect. It just has to be considered. As said, it diminishes the ionization efficiency by some 50%, which is an annoyance and mainly affects the stability of the mesh-grid-potential, which can be stabilized with a capacitor of sufficient withstand-voltage and capacity, ie several kV several nF, as a first approximation. Note: I am trying to bring some hard parameters in here, and not Rossi said this, DGK done that, Chan exploded a tree, which does a disservice to the effect. Kill the concept, as I try to expose, and You do me a service. Spares me a lot of time. Thank You. Guenther
Re: [Vo]:Spark plugs... thoughts and how-to?
Interesting!!! I take it from your use of a Fairchild IGBT that you are planning to implement a conventional Kettering Ignition Design rather than a Capacitive Discharge Ignition Design. (Since an SCR, rather than an IGBT would be more appropriate in a CDI design.) Yes, there would be severe +/- KV oscillations in a Kettering design. I implemented a CDI design with a heavy diode sink to quickly kill any reverse voltage oscillations. On my design, the resultant LC circuit will have an overdamped harmonic frequency of 11Khz, which would drive havoc inside the reactor. Hence I implement a diode sink to quickly kill the KV oscillations. Another thing, with a Kettering design, you are pretty much limited to a low firing frequency of at most maybe 250 hz. I see that you plan to fire your sparks at 10 hz. At those levels, you will not be able to deliver enough energy into the reaction chamber to initiate any meaningful reaction. It seems you've already calculated your power input to be in the order of 5.5 watts. Seems too low to do anything with it. On my design, I am delivering 260mJ per spark or up to 211 watts at 1000 hz. And my design can be fired up to a practical rate of 10Khz. At this level, I can deliver several KW into my reactor if need be, although I do not plan to go that high. Let me know how your reactor design works out, although I think I can predict severe warping of your electrode and mesh screen. I predict this would be due to severe thermal stesses, electrostatic and electromagnetic attractive forces as well as the sheer turbulence inside that reactor. Once the mesh screen is warped, it would be closer to the other electrode. When that happens, the sparks will follow that closer path all the time. In other words, it will ionize and spark on the same location all the time. That would definitely be detrimental to your nickel nanopowders as that will cook it in short order. In my design, the reactor wall is the anode and I used a larger diameter cathode electrode to prevent warping of the electrodes. Making the reactor wall the anode should repel H+ positive ions into the middle of the reactor chamber where they can hopefully form Rydberg Matter in abundance. Good luck and apologies for biting your head off unnecessarily. Jojo - Original Message - From: Guenter Wildgruber To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 1:50 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Spark plugs... thoughts and how-to? -- Von: Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com An: Vortex Vortex-l@eskimo.com Gesendet: 7:18 Montag, 21.Mai 2012 Betreff: Re: [Vo]:Spark plugs... thoughts and how-to? Guenter, I believe your bickering is misdirected. ... Did DGT simply make a mistake and accidentally machined an extra hole on both end plates and had to plug it with a spark plug? BTW, machining a spark plug thread is more difficult than machining an ordinary pipe fitting thread, ... Spark Plug CAN deliver High Voltages into the reactor, but NOT High Current, unless it is a highly short-lived transient current spike. Jojo, Sorry if this 'kidding' term comes over as 'bickering'. It was not meant to be such. Just to be funny of sorts. Well. Did not work out, it seems. You hit me, an I feel punished. OK? Actually, in my hypothetical design there are TWO electrodes. One at about 20kV (the HV) , one at 100V (the mesh), but this does not make a difference. For purely practical matters it makes sense to me to use a high-temperature, pressure-tight feedthrough for both. (I doubt whether the DGT design has anything to do with that. My efforts in reverse-engineering greek designs are very limited) Concerning current, I calculate this as follows: Max spark-energy is 300mJ for a duration of 100usec @20kV Which gives approx 7A over that interval, being equivalent to 3kOhm, absorbing all that. I estimate the spark-electrode resistance to be in the mOhm...Ohm range, so it is negligible. (see eg the STM ignition coil driver VBG15NB22T5SP-E or the Fairchild ISL9V3040D3S ecospark) Remember, the secondary (HV-coil) (AC) resistance is in the order of 5-10kOhm, considering Skin-effect and other factors. I did not make a publishable simulation right now, -which You seem to object beforehand- Am unsure whether it makes sense, above common-sense assessments, ie, that the voltage heavily oscillates between +/- kV levels, which is meaningless in conventional ignition, but NOT in a LENR environment, where it has some peculiar effects, which are not lethal, but diminish the efficiency of the whole setup considerably. I attach another pdf to clarify the 'ignition' issue. 'ideal case'. best regards Guenther
Re: [Vo]:Spark plugs... thoughts and how-to?
Von: Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com An: Vortex Vortex-l@eskimo.com Gesendet: 21:32 Dienstag, 22.Mai 2012 Betreff: Re: [Vo]:Spark plugs... thoughts and how-to? Interesting!!! Glad jojo no problem. Misunderstandings are quite normal. Anyway. Ignition coils tend to heavily oscillate on the secondary side, which is quite undesirable in the LENR case, because it tends to neutralize the direction of the ion movements. Which is irrelevant in a combustion-motor, but not with LENR. The function of my hypothetical auxiliary mesh-grid can be more easily seen if not used. See my attached sketch. Here you can see that H+ ions tend to oscillate around their point of generation and finally neutralize with high probability. The simple trick seems to be to rectify the potential , such that the H+ ions travel towards the reactant. This can be accompished a) by -well- rectification b) by applying an auxiliary potential via the mesh (a) rectifiication- would do the job , but only for a very short time. By rectification one gains a lot. The 20-10-5..kV pulses then all work in the right direction. (b) -aux mesh potential- on the other hand, only works if the time-interval between sparks is sufficiently large (1:10..1000) compared to the dominant potential (20kV) of the major pulse, which is, say, a couple of usec. So the mesh in the strict sense is not necessary, but only for fine-control or low frequency sparks (say 100msec interval). We are not there yet. best regards Guenther Attached You find a crude graphic representation of said situation. my_LENR_20120522_HV and ion movement.pdf Description: Adobe PDF document
Re: [Vo]:Spark plugs... thoughts and how-to?
Interesting link on the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_hydrogen_welding It also appears that you can buy vintage tungsten spark plugs. Terry mentioned Iridium spark plugs... Any thoughts on one versus the other or using off-the-shelf.. I would prefer to use NPT plugs. Obviously I don't want to create too much heat in my reactor... or blow anything up... (There may be some air/O2 in my system..) Guenter, thanks for the schematic links.. - Brad p.s. While not worth a new thread, I think it is interesting that Rossi says he has been in contact with Siemens. I've long thought that they would be a good corporate fit for Rossi.
Re: [Vo]:Spark plugs... thoughts and how-to?
Checking on use of spark plugs with high pressure hydrogen: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paschen%27s_law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Paschen_Curves.PNG Hydrogen appears to have a lower breakdown voltage of about 60-70% of air at same pressure. So should be able to use an air gap that is bigger. Spark plugs are usually about 0.8mm gap, and if you are using 25bar H2 that will require about 30kV at room temperature, but for 25bar 600°C I would estimate it will probably be closer to 12kV due to lower H2 density (density equivalent of about 8bar). Most automotive ignition systems do about 20-30kV, so at elevated temperatures it seems likely you could drive a 1.5-2mm spark gap, though not at colder temps and not at higher H2 pressures. Anyway a standard spark plug looks like it should work fine producing sparks in H2 at 25 bar using an automotive coil. On 21 May 2012 19:00, ecat builder ecatbuil...@gmail.com wrote: Interesting link on the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_hydrogen_welding It also appears that you can buy vintage tungsten spark plugs. Terry mentioned Iridium spark plugs... Any thoughts on one versus the other or using off-the-shelf.. I would prefer to use NPT plugs. Obviously I don't want to create too much heat in my reactor... or blow anything up... (There may be some air/O2 in my system..) Guenter, thanks for the schematic links.. - Brad p.s. While not worth a new thread, I think it is interesting that Rossi says he has been in contact with Siemens. I've long thought that they would be a good corporate fit for Rossi.
Re: [Vo]:Spark plugs... thoughts and how-to?
Chan Again Darn It, http://hydride.has.it/ shows reference to processing FLUID hydrocarbons (mineral oil or propane perhaps) with arc. H. Yes, bleeding gas or pumped fluids suggests control possibilities. Yes, What about this, Gentlemen, could it be that passing Ni dispersed in oil through a permanent magnetic field or one created by an electromagnet powered by DC might control or mediate a miniature Ni H fusion therein? Warm Regards, Reliable Robert Lynn wrote: Checking on use of spark plugs with high pressure hydrogen: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paschen%27s_law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Paschen_Curves.PNG Hydrogen appears to have a lower breakdown voltage of about 60-70% of air at same pressure. So should be able to use an air gap that is bigger. Spark plugs are usually about 0.8mm gap, and if you are using 25bar H2 that will require about 30kV at room temperature, but for 25bar 600°C I would estimate it will probably be closer to 12kV due to lower H2 density (density equivalent of about 8bar). Most automotive ignition systems do about 20-30kV, so at elevated temperatures it seems likely you could drive a 1.5-2mm spark gap, though not at colder temps and not at higher H2 pressures. Anyway a standard spark plug looks like it should work fine producing sparks in H2 at 25 bar using an automotive coil. On 21 May 2012 19:00, ecat builder ecatbuil...@gmail.com wrote: Interesting link on the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_hydrogen_welding It also appears that you can buy vintage tungsten spark plugs. Terry mentioned Iridium spark plugs... Any thoughts on one versus the other or using off-the-shelf.. I would prefer to use NPT plugs. Obviously I don't want to create too much heat in my reactor... or blow anything up... (There may be some air/O2 in my system..) Guenter, thanks for the schematic links.. - Brad p.s. While not worth a new thread, I think it is interesting that Rossi says he has been in contact with Siemens. I've long thought that they would be a good corporate fit for Rossi.
Re: [Vo]:Spark plugs... thoughts and how-to?
I stand in support of Reliable. I do not discount Chan and the other fellows that follow his design lead as kooks. On the contrary, their approach may be superior to what Rossi has done. As an underlying design principle, I think that it is the shape of the catalyzing cluster that is important not what element it is comprised of… water, cesium, potassium, carbon… the cluster is made of. The engineering and control may be very different, however. As long as the cluster can hold a charge; that is what is important. It is this charge that suppresses the coulomb barrier. I think it important that experimenters try out carbon as a LENR catalyst. I don’t think Rossi uses carbon as his secret sauce because he states he uses pure hydrogen. Using Bulk Carbon powder would be a poor way to distribute carbon around the hydrogen envelop. A better way to get carbon into the act is to use a hydrocarbon gas instead of vaporizing bulk carbon and hydrogen. Vaporizing bulk carbon is not easy from a practical point of view. In an easier way, without any oxygen in the reactor’s envelop (important), under the action of a spark plug discharge plasma at 60,000C, the hydrocarbon gas would decompose into hydrogen and some sort of carbon dust. This dust may form as carbon nanotubes(a one dimensional superconductive cluster) which would store electrons from the plasma produced by the spark plug. This long thin tube would be superconductive and concentrate negative charge like a capacitor. These nanowires would be electrostatically attracted to the nickel powder, they would attach themselves electrostatically head on to the nickel powder, and their accumulated negative charge at their sharp tip would reduce the coulomb barrier where their sharp tips contacted the nickel powder. This is not the way Rossi’s reaction works, but I think that it is a better way. Rossi’s secret sauce is heat activated to accumulate charge; but the carbon nanotubes accumulate charge in proportion to the discharge rate of the spark plug. If you want to increase heat output on a nanotube based system, just increase the spark plug firing rate. Control of heat output is a simple process with an advantage of simplicity over what Rossi has been struggling with over more than a year. Cheers: Axil On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 5:30 PM, integral.property.serv...@gmail.com integral.property.serv...@gmail.com wrote: Chan Again Darn It, http://hydride.has.it/ shows reference to processing FLUID hydrocarbons (mineral oil or propane perhaps) with arc. H. Yes, bleeding gas or pumped fluids suggests control possibilities. Yes, What about this, Gentlemen, could it be that passing Ni dispersed in oil through a permanent magnetic field or one created by an electromagnet powered by DC might control or mediate a miniature Ni H fusion therein? Warm Regards, Reliable Robert Lynn wrote: Checking on use of spark plugs with high pressure hydrogen: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Paschen%27s_lawhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paschen%27s_law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**File:Paschen_Curves.PNGhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Paschen_Curves.PNG Hydrogen appears to have a lower breakdown voltage of about 60-70% of air at same pressure. So should be able to use an air gap that is bigger. Spark plugs are usually about 0.8mm gap, and if you are using 25bar H2 that will require about 30kV at room temperature, but for 25bar 600°C I would estimate it will probably be closer to 12kV due to lower H2 density (density equivalent of about 8bar). Most automotive ignition systems do about 20-30kV, so at elevated temperatures it seems likely you could drive a 1.5-2mm spark gap, though not at colder temps and not at higher H2 pressures. Anyway a standard spark plug looks like it should work fine producing sparks in H2 at 25 bar using an automotive coil. On 21 May 2012 19:00, ecat builder ecatbuil...@gmail.com wrote: Interesting link on the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/** Atomic_hydrogen_weldinghttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_hydrogen_welding It also appears that you can buy vintage tungsten spark plugs. Terry mentioned Iridium spark plugs... Any thoughts on one versus the other or using off-the-shelf.. I would prefer to use NPT plugs. Obviously I don't want to create too much heat in my reactor... or blow anything up... (There may be some air/O2 in my system..) Guenter, thanks for the schematic links.. - Brad p.s. While not worth a new thread, I think it is interesting that Rossi says he has been in contact with Siemens. I've long thought that they would be a good corporate fit for Rossi.
Re: [Vo]:Spark plugs... thoughts and how-to?
Axil, Carbon nanocone properties: http://www.mse.ncsu.edu/CompMatSci/pdf/full3.pdf most probable spot for emitting tunneling electrons in the presence of external field Nanocone production is covered by: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/14356007.n05_n06/pdf page 15, 3.2 from heavy oil or gaseous hydrocarbons in arc plasmas. Warm Regards, Reliable Axil Axil wrote: I stand in support of Reliable. I do not discount Chan and the other fellows that follow his design lead as kooks. On the contrary, their approach may be superior to what Rossi has done. As an underlying design principle, I think that it is the shape of the catalyzing cluster that is important not what element it is comprised of… water, cesium, potassium, carbon… the cluster is made of. The engineering and control may be very different, however. As long as the cluster can hold a charge; that is what is important. It is this charge that suppresses the coulomb barrier. I think it important that experimenters try out carbon as a LENR catalyst. I don’t think Rossi uses carbon as his secret sauce because he states he uses pure hydrogen. Using Bulk Carbon powder would be a poor way to distribute carbon around the hydrogen envelop. A better way to get carbon into the act is to use a hydrocarbon gas instead of vaporizing bulk carbon and hydrogen. Vaporizing bulk carbon is not easy from a practical point of view. In an easier way, without any oxygen in the reactor’s envelop (important), under the action of a spark plug discharge plasma at 60,000C, the hydrocarbon gas would decompose into hydrogen and some sort of carbon dust. This dust may form as carbon nanotubes(a one dimensional superconductive cluster) which would store electrons from the plasma produced by the spark plug. This long thin tube would be superconductive and concentrate negative charge like a capacitor. These nanowires would be electrostatically attracted to the nickel powder, they would attach themselves electrostatically head on to the nickel powder, and their accumulated negative charge at their sharp tip would reduce the coulomb barrier where their sharp tips contacted the nickel powder. This is not the way Rossi’s reaction works, but I think that it is a better way. Rossi’s secret sauce is heat activated to accumulate charge; but the carbon nanotubes accumulate charge in proportion to the discharge rate of the spark plug. If you want to increase heat output on a nanotube based system, just increase the spark plug firing rate. Control of heat output is a simple process with an advantage of simplicity over what Rossi has been struggling with over more than a year. Cheers: Axil On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 5:30 PM, integral.property.serv...@gmail.com mailto:integral.property.serv...@gmail.com integral.property.serv...@gmail.com mailto:integral.property.serv...@gmail.com wrote: Chan Again Darn It, http://hydride.has.it/ shows reference to processing FLUID hydrocarbons (mineral oil or propane perhaps) with arc. H. Yes, bleeding gas or pumped fluids suggests control possibilities. Yes, What about this, Gentlemen, could it be that passing Ni dispersed in oil through a permanent magnetic field or one created by an electromagnet powered by DC might control or mediate a miniature Ni H fusion therein? Warm Regards, Reliable Robert Lynn wrote: Checking on use of spark plugs with high pressure hydrogen: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paschen%27s_law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Paschen_Curves.PNG Hydrogen appears to have a lower breakdown voltage of about 60-70% of air at same pressure. So should be able to use an air gap that is bigger. Spark plugs are usually about 0.8mm gap, and if you are using 25bar H2 that will require about 30kV at room temperature, but for 25bar 600°C I would estimate it will probably be closer to 12kV due to lower H2 density (density equivalent of about 8bar). Most automotive ignition systems do about 20-30kV, so at elevated temperatures it seems likely you could drive a 1.5-2mm spark gap, though not at colder temps and not at higher H2 pressures. Anyway a standard spark plug looks like it should work fine producing sparks in H2 at 25 bar using an automotive coil. On 21 May 2012 19:00, ecat builder ecatbuil...@gmail.com mailto:ecatbuil...@gmail.com wrote: Interesting link on the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_hydrogen_welding It also appears that you can buy vintage tungsten spark plugs. Terry mentioned Iridium spark plugs... Any thoughts on one versus the other or using off-the-shelf.. I would prefer to use NPT plugs. Obviously I don't want to create too
Re: [Vo]:Spark plugs... thoughts and how-to?
Von: Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com An: vortex-l@eskimo.com Gesendet: 19:10 Sonntag, 20.Mai 2012 Betreff: Re: [Vo]:Spark plugs... thoughts and how-to? Jojo, You must be kidding. Using a Spark Plug to plug a hole makes absolutely no sense. Yes it does! A spark-plug is a proven design to direct high voltages/high currents into a high temperature/high/low pressure container LONG term. If Yo contact a manufacturer with specifications like that, he probably charges You a couple of 100$ per contact, and if he is honest, suggests to use a spark plug. Here we are again. I give You 1$ per contact if You guarantee me -50...300deg C operation over 20kHours, withstand voltage 30kV, pressure range 0.001bar to 50bar, and another 10k$ for a start. A spark plug cannot be beaten on that. Guenther
Re: [Vo]:Spark plugs... thoughts and how-to?
In reply to Guenter Wildgruber's message of Sat, 19 May 2012 09:06:08 +0100 (BST): Hi, [snip] Now the main question is: what do You want the sparks to do? a) generate H+ ? b) direct energy into the Ni-powder ? I'm quite convinced that (a) is correct. (b) would most probably locally melt Your powder. Nothing else. You forgot (c). The spark multiplies the Hydrinos, and operates on the gas so it doesn't need to be anywhere near the powder. ;) BTW Guenter please remove your email address from the reply to field in your email client options. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Fwd: [Vo]:Spark plugs... thoughts and how-to?
On Sun, May 20, 2012 at 3:18 PM, Guenter Wildgruber gwildgru...@ymail.com wrote: Terry, I spent a good part of my weekend analyzing/simulating ingnition coils and studying the possble pitfalls of spark plugs and other important matter. Maybe a Jacob's Ladder would be a better answer. (humor) Maybe I lost a bit of humor doing that. Humor and engineering do not mix easily. I disagree. Humor and creativity go hand in hand. Besides, when you manage engineers for a living as I do, humor is essential to sanity. Sometimes I wish to be Rossi, looking over the sea and have an easy mind. The magic mediterranean sauce. Which I do'nt seem to have in my current state of mind. Schnapps! Goldschläger! Oh, that's Swiss. Anyway. I'm working on a decent simulation of an ignition coil, proton lifetime and pressing the damned beasts into Nickel, such that some Rydberg matter or whatever can develop, and I rest in peace. Best of luck; but, I doubt you will catch up with PDGT. They have a large lead and resources. But don't let me discourage you. There's always serendipity. T
Re: [Vo]:Spark plugs... thoughts and how-to?
Guenter, I believe your bickering is misdirected. You need to read my response better and read the response of the person I am responding to and you might get an idea of what I am saying. People are saying the spark plug in DGT reactors are being used to plug the hole, and nothing else. For DGT to do this simply makes no sense. And why 2 spark plugs? Did DGT simply make a mistake and accidentally machined an extra hole on both end plates and had to plug it with a spark plug? BTW, machining a spark plug thread is more difficult than machining an ordinary pipe fitting thread, which goes to show that DGT's use of a spark plug is deliberate. I am saying the spark plug is not simply being used to plug a hole. I am saying it is being used as part of the reaction mechanism. It believe it is being used to feed high voltage. BTW, as one who has tried using spark plugs in a reactor, I believe your simulations that you claim to be representative are faulty. Spark Plug CAN deliver High Voltages into the reactor, but NOT High Current, unless it is a highly short-lived transient current spike. And all this bickering is tiresome. I am trying to share what I believe about sparks and people are free to believe or not to believe. Makes no differnece to me. Jojo - Original Message - From: Guenter Wildgruber To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, May 21, 2012 1:53 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Spark plugs... thoughts and how-to? -- Von: Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com An: vortex-l@eskimo.com Gesendet: 19:10 Sonntag, 20.Mai 2012 Betreff: Re: [Vo]:Spark plugs... thoughts and how-to? Jojo, You must be kidding. Using a Spark Plug to plug a hole makes absolutely no sense. Yes it does! A spark-plug is a proven design to direct high voltages/high currents into a high temperature/high/low pressure container LONG term. If Yo contact a manufacturer with specifications like that, he probably charges You a couple of 100$ per contact, and if he is honest, suggests to use a spark plug. Here we are again. I give You 1$ per contact if You guarantee me -50...300deg C operation over 20kHours, withstand voltage 30kV, pressure range 0.001bar to 50bar, and another 10k$ for a start. A spark plug cannot be beaten on that. Guenther
Re: [Vo]:Spark plugs... thoughts and how-to?
Von: ecat builder ecatbuil...@gmail.com An: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Gesendet: 22:07 Freitag, 18.Mai 2012 Betreff: [Vo]:Spark plugs... thoughts and how-to? Brad, Can anyone recommend a way to create a single or continuous sparks with a spark plug using off-the-shelf parts? I have a simple frequency generator (sine/sqr/tri waves) that I can use, which I could hook to an SCR and send voltage to a coil. But I'd rather use off the shelf... but a circuit diagram might work too. Or, could I use something like a strobe light kit that uses a plug instead of a flashtube? remember that --strobe lights operate at 200-400V DC, coupled with a trigger-pulse --NOT VERY SIMPLE especially with H2, which is more difficult to ignite than noble-gases in atmospheric-pressure and above environments. But I'm not an expert on this. --old LCD (Plasma)-backlight operates at 300-1000V AC 40kHz --NOT GOOD A better start is definitely a ignition-coil spark-plug design. See eg here http://mosfetkiller.de/?s=zuendspulen#top (sorry German, but You get the idea) Look at the pictures near the bottom of the page. Interesting is the raster-board used as an electrode, which produces sort of plasma-dots. --- Now the main question is: what do You want the sparks to do? a) generate H+ ? b) direct energy into the Ni-powder ? I'm quite convinced that (a) is correct. (b) would most probably locally melt Your powder. Nothing else. The way to go would be to attach a twodimensional electrode to the spark-plug center electrode. (eg copper-clad PCB with an etched pattern on it) Then plasma-generation can be fuzzily distributed on a plane or some other surface (like RF-plasmas naturally do). You then need an auxiliary (DC-)voltage of 50-100V to direct the protons into the powder. If you're interested, please comment. I can elaborate a bit further. best regards Guenther
[Vo]:Spark plugs... thoughts and how-to?
Hi Vortex, I'm thinking of dusting off my experiments. My LabJack is fixed (Thanks LabJack guys) and I have some nickel alloy powder I am anxious to try. And I can add a spark plug easily. DGT said they can trigger the reaction on demand. It sure seems like their trigger is a single spark or a burst of sparks. Thoughts? Can anyone recommend a way to create a single or continuous sparks with a spark plug using off-the-shelf parts? I have a simple frequency generator (sine/sqr/tri waves) that I can use, which I could hook to an SCR and send voltage to a coil. But I'd rather use off the shelf... but a circuit diagram might work too. Or, could I use something like a strobe light kit that uses a plug instead of a flashtube? Rossi's original big blue voltage box.. Could it be putting out high voltage to spark the Auxiliary device? I can't find a close-up of the blue box (inside or back) to see if anything looks like a coil. An early reactor picture here http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-dadS9almTsE/TaQl3jSqzcI/Ai0/KcVR26eDkt0/s1600/e-cats1.jpg has something off-the-shelf that might be a thermocouple or heater.. but does not look like a spark plug. However, requiring two heaters always seemed a little odd... My reactor has the nickel powders in a test tube within the reactor and external band heater. I can't imagine the sparks would need to come in contact with the nickel powder. Thoughts? Looking for volunteers.. :) - Brad
Re: [Vo]:Spark plugs... thoughts and how-to?
ecat builder wrote: I'm thinking of dusting off my experiments. My LabJack is fixed (Thanks LabJack guys) and I have some nickel alloy powder I am anxious to try. And I can add a spark plug easily. Good idea. I recommend you try a spark plug. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Spark plugs... thoughts and how-to?
Here's some off-the-shelf parts that you can use. The CDI Ignition box can connect directly to a spark plug and you can drive this ignition box with an Ignition Tester. You can drive sparks at a rate of 300 to 20,000 RPM. http://www.rccdi.com/news/ignition/1.html My old design used these, but I upgraded my ignition box to a custom design SCR circuit driven by my MF-28 data acquisition module. I did this to achieve more output, more controllability and more programmability. Jojo - Original Message - From: ecat builder ecatbuil...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2012 4:07 AM Subject: [Vo]:Spark plugs... thoughts and how-to? Hi Vortex, I'm thinking of dusting off my experiments. My LabJack is fixed (Thanks LabJack guys) and I have some nickel alloy powder I am anxious to try. And I can add a spark plug easily. DGT said they can trigger the reaction on demand. It sure seems like their trigger is a single spark or a burst of sparks. Thoughts? Can anyone recommend a way to create a single or continuous sparks with a spark plug using off-the-shelf parts? I have a simple frequency generator (sine/sqr/tri waves) that I can use, which I could hook to an SCR and send voltage to a coil. But I'd rather use off the shelf... but a circuit diagram might work too. Or, could I use something like a strobe light kit that uses a plug instead of a flashtube? Rossi's original big blue voltage box.. Could it be putting out high voltage to spark the Auxiliary device? I can't find a close-up of the blue box (inside or back) to see if anything looks like a coil. An early reactor picture here http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-dadS9almTsE/TaQl3jSqzcI/Ai0/KcVR26eDkt0/s1600/e-cats1.jpg has something off-the-shelf that might be a thermocouple or heater.. but does not look like a spark plug. However, requiring two heaters always seemed a little odd... My reactor has the nickel powders in a test tube within the reactor and external band heater. I can't imagine the sparks would need to come in contact with the nickel powder. Thoughts? Looking for volunteers.. :) - Brad
Re: [Vo]:Spark plugs... thoughts and how-to?
Hi Brad, I've been wondering if the spark plug was just being used as a high pressure plug for the Nickel/H chamber. I checked all the photos for ones where the spark plug was connected and couldn't find anything definite. Colin On Sat, May 19, 2012 at 4:07 AM, ecat builder ecatbuil...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Vortex, I'm thinking of dusting off my experiments. My LabJack is fixed (Thanks LabJack guys) and I have some nickel alloy powder I am anxious to try. And I can add a spark plug easily. DGT said they can trigger the reaction on demand. It sure seems like their trigger is a single spark or a burst of sparks. Thoughts? Can anyone recommend a way to create a single or continuous sparks with a spark plug using off-the-shelf parts? I have a simple frequency generator (sine/sqr/tri waves) that I can use, which I could hook to an SCR and send voltage to a coil. But I'd rather use off the shelf... but a circuit diagram might work too. Or, could I use something like a strobe light kit that uses a plug instead of a flashtube? Rossi's original big blue voltage box.. Could it be putting out high voltage to spark the Auxiliary device? I can't find a close-up of the blue box (inside or back) to see if anything looks like a coil. An early reactor picture here http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-dadS9almTsE/TaQl3jSqzcI/Ai0/KcVR26eDkt0/s1600/e-cats1.jpg has something off-the-shelf that might be a thermocouple or heater.. but does not look like a spark plug. However, requiring two heaters always seemed a little odd... My reactor has the nickel powders in a test tube within the reactor and external band heater. I can't imagine the sparks would need to come in contact with the nickel powder. Thoughts? Looking for volunteers.. :) - Brad
Re: [Vo]:Spark plugs... thoughts and how-to?
Thanks Jojo.. Are you currently testing Ni+H2+heat+pressure+sparks? Can you give us an update on your experiments (or do you have a web site/blog?) Care to share your circuit for your SCR spark generator? Colin: Using a spark plug as a high pressure electric pass-through is possible, but seems like a hack that wouldn't be used except in a crude prototype. I am hoping DGT is beyond that. Maybe a red herring.. or a mistake that shouldn't have been in the released pictures. - Brad On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 5:48 PM, Jojo Jaro jth...@hotmail.com wrote: Here's some off-the-shelf parts that you can use. The CDI Ignition box can connect directly to a spark plug and you can drive this ignition box with an Ignition Tester. You can drive sparks at a rate of 300 to 20,000 RPM. http://www.rccdi.com/news/ignition/1.html My old design used these, but I upgraded my ignition box to a custom design SCR circuit driven by my MF-28 data acquisition module. I did this to achieve more output, more controllability and more programmability. Jojo - Original Message - From: ecat builder ecatbuil...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2012 4:07 AM Subject: [Vo]:Spark plugs... thoughts and how-to? Hi Vortex, I'm thinking of dusting off my experiments. My LabJack is fixed (Thanks LabJack guys) and I have some nickel alloy powder I am anxious to try. And I can add a spark plug easily. DGT said they can trigger the reaction on demand. It sure seems like their trigger is a single spark or a burst of sparks. Thoughts? Can anyone recommend a way to create a single or continuous sparks with a spark plug using off-the-shelf parts? I have a simple frequency generator (sine/sqr/tri waves) that I can use, which I could hook to an SCR and send voltage to a coil. But I'd rather use off the shelf... but a circuit diagram might work too. Or, could I use something like a strobe light kit that uses a plug instead of a flashtube? Rossi's original big blue voltage box.. Could it be putting out high voltage to spark the Auxiliary device? I can't find a close-up of the blue box (inside or back) to see if anything looks like a coil. An early reactor picture here http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-dadS9almTsE/TaQl3jSqzcI/Ai0/KcVR26eDkt0/s1600/e-cats1.jpg has something off-the-shelf that might be a thermocouple or heater.. but does not look like a spark plug. However, requiring two heaters always seemed a little odd... My reactor has the nickel powders in a test tube within the reactor and external band heater. I can't imagine the sparks would need to come in contact with the nickel powder. Thoughts? Looking for volunteers.. :) - Brad
