At least the thermocouples were placed by the company’s engineer and not
Rossi...
-mark
Here is the temperature graphs with more accurate time stamps:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/28230378/oct28demo.png
And some simple calculations:
Water flow rate: 675.6 l/h
Temperature above 100°C: 12:34
End of dataset: 18:24
Total time: 350 min (5h 50 min)
Heating period:
Started: 11:00 / Ended:
... ROSSI SAID ... (as usual)
2011/10/29 Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net
At least the thermocouples were placed by the company’s engineer and not
Rossi...
-mark
Yes, this is the big question. If it worked, why didnt it blow up?
I have calculated elsewhere in this forum that it is technical possible
to dissipate the heat with a big ventilated air heatexchanger.
This is believable to me.
But the big unsolved question for me is:
Steam temperature was
http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3303682.ece
5.5 hours of self sustain mode after just 2 hours of startup time. Champaign
anyone?
Brad
2011/10/29 Ecat Builder ecatbuil...@gmail.com:
5.5 hours of self sustain mode after just 2 hours of startup time.
Champaign anyone?
Not yet. There was nothing new to October test presented expect that
instead of one E-Cat, there was 107 of them.
But measurements are extremely unreliable and
Is there any reason why there was a 500kW generator running AND hooked
up to the E-Cat through the WHOLE test, despite the E-Cat being switched
into self-sustain mode? I gave it a tiny percent chance of being
possible before, but now there's nothing but a clear scam left of it.
Power for
Greetings Vortex,
While is that aire of uncertainty about the generator and some otre issues,
I will have a Martini Rossi Vodka Martini.
I think that everything ...when told...will be fine. IF I were Rossi..I
would only be concerned about my
customer...and the AP. Which seems to be the case
Charles Hope lookslikeiwasri...@gmail.com wrote:
Jed, in your opinion, why does Rossi bother with these demoes, if they don't
impress fence sitters, and he doesn't need new investors?
It seems to clear to me why he did these demos. Different reasons:
Oct. 6 was a demonstration. It proved
Rossi says here that they issued some sort of conditional permit, with
restrictions. That is the sort of thing you would expect for an experimental
device. That sounds plausible. It is what I would expect a responsible
government official to issue.
Jed, please.
How can rossi had a permit if
In the report they reported Noise: 50 dBA, which is below normal room
loudness.
How could they measure this, when the generator was running all time?
Am 29.10.2011 13:01, schrieb Larry Ectsnte:
Is there any reason why there was a 500kW generator running AND hooked
up to the E-Cat through the
On Sat, 2011-10-29 at 15:20 +0200, Mattia Rizzi wrote:
How can rossi had a permit if inside the nuclear site there isn’t even
a SINGLE “Nuclear Warning” panel?
Nuclear Warning Panel?
This is still an unknown phenomenon, and the idea that it's nuclear is
still speculation. It is not known to be
I take some words back. Rossi's calorimetry was not calibrated. Therefore
we do not have any proper evidence for the performance. I guess that there
was some excess heat, but nothing more accurate can be said.
Right now we need to wait for the miracle that the mystery company steps
forward or the
Can we make the assumption that since the temperature is well above 100 C
inside the output piping heading toward the condensers that the steam must be
of very high quality? It seems to me that the condensers are capable of
totally condensing the vapor so that the pressure within this pipe
I drank mine last evening. I would be willing to share another round with you
and the others in the celebratory mood. Cheers!
Dave
-Original Message-
From: Ecat Builder ecatbuil...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Sat, Oct 29, 2011 6:39 am
Subject: [Vo]:NyTeknik
If you declare to run a 1MW reactor and if you declare that generate heat
with gamma radiation, then it's nuclear.
**No matter what it is the true nature of the reaction**, but if you declare
these things, then you cannot get an authorization without installing
nuclear warinig panels.
It is prudent to have the generator running for safety reasons as well as to
supply the control system regulating the ECATs. I would find it strange if
they deactivated the generator. Also, the net fuel used during the test is a
direct indication of the amount of energy from that source.
It must make a big difference in noise and in heat production and in
fuel consumption if the generator is running without load.
It cannot go unnoticed if this was watched.
Am 29.10.2011 16:22, schrieb David Roberson:
It is prudent to have the generator running for safety reasons as well
as to
Mattia Rizzi mattia.ri...@gmail.com wrote:
How can rossi had a permit if inside the nuclear site there isn’t even a
SINGLE “Nuclear Warning” panel?
I don't know. I have not seen his application or permit. You have a good
point. It might be prudent to set up some signs. I am not sure where you
Am 29.10.2011 16:32, schrieb Jed Rothwell:
Mattia Rizzi mattia.ri...@gmail.com mailto:mattia.ri...@gmail.com
wrote:
How can rossi had a permit if inside the nuclear site there isn’t
even a SINGLE “Nuclear Warning” panel?
I don't know. I have not seen his application or permit. You
Unless you know the temperature and the pressure you can make no sensible
statements as to whether it was steam or water, and again you are left with
a roughly 1:7 possible range of power output (70kW if water, 490kW if
steam).
Forget analysis and go on faith (or lack of faith) in Rossi and the
Jouni Valkonen jounivalko...@gmail.com wrote:
However, this test was by no means made by independed scientists.
Well, supposedly it was. Rossi claims that was an independent engineer. We
have only his word for that.
I take some words back. Rossi's calorimetry was not calibrated. Therefore
Still, as far as anyone knows, cold fusion never generates dangerous
radiation. So it is a little silly to apply the safety standards of fission
or plasma fusion to it. This is like saying that hydrogen airships can
explode, so we should take extreme precautions when working with helium
balloons.
If I where running the test I would only want one point of power input and that
from the genset - this means that the generator must remain running to power
the condensor fans, pumps and control electrics. If the gen set where stopped
but there was a sizable extension cord run out from the
Mattia Rizzi mattia.ri...@gmail.com wrote:
If you declare to run a 1MW reactor and if you declare that generate heat
with gamma radiation, then it's nuclear.
Is that what Rossi declared in his application for a permit? Did you read
the application or the permit? If you did not, you do not know
Gamma rays may have a subjective definition.You can say that Gamma Rays are
photons emitted by state transitions of the nucleus and X-Rays are photons
that comes from electrons. X-Ray machines emits what would be otherwise
consider gamma rays, around 140KeV. For example,
Mattia Rizzi mattia.ri...@gmail.com wrote:
No matter of what his going on inside the reactor.
Rossi made spectacular claims. He said that he generate heat by gamma
emission.
Yes, he did. Experts think that is unlikely, but he did say that. But did he
tell that to the government when he
That does seem likely. Perhaps that means he did not tell them there is
potential gamma emissions.
And what you think Rossi said? “Well, we want an authorization for running a
1MW electric heater?”
No comment.
From: Jed Rothwell
Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2011 5:02 PM
To:
The gamma ray can have a small wavelength such that it could almost fit in the
range of visible light
I think you need to read some physics books. Gamma rays have smaller wavelength
then X-Rays and visible light. And a re more powerful and hazards.
From: Daniel Rocha
Sent: Saturday, October
And those kinds of gensets have watt-hour meters as well…
-m
From: John Harris [mailto:jfhar...@dodo.com.au]
Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2011 7:33 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: [Vo]:Fw: [Vo]:500kW generator was also running during the 5 hours!
If I where running the test I would
A follow up article by Wired (UK) Mag:
http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2011-10/29/rossi-success
They speculate it's DARPA. More likely SPAWAR.
T
I just provided you with examples which are not the case. For example,
the isomer 180m1
Ta is very stable, but when it decays, it emits at an energy of 75KeV, which
is within the range of x-rays, that is, below 120KeV.
2011/10/29 Mattia Rizzi mattia.ri...@gmail.com
The gamma ray can have a
Mattia Rizzi mattia.ri...@gmail.com wrote:
That does seem likely. Perhaps that means he did not tell them there is
potential gamma emissions.
And what you think Rossi said? “Well, we want an authorization for running
a 1MW electric heater?”
I have no idea what he said. You are Italian.
What are you talking about? You said that gamma rays had longest wavelength
then visibile light (“The gamma ray can have a small wavelength such that it
could almost fit in the range of visible light”, quoted). That’s absurd.
Yeah, you can say that a 75keV is gamma as you can say that a 2Mhz
A photo of Col. Ing. Domenico Fioravanti:
http://theeestory.com/posts/215391
T
You need to get a lawsuit against Rossi before asking it.
From: Jed Rothwell
Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2011 5:24 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: Hey, it didn't blow up! And by the way, there does seem
to be a permit.
Mattia Rizzi mattia.ri...@gmail.com wrote:
That does
You are picking up on small things. Just exchange wavelength to energy
in the quoted part and all is right, I was only talking about photon energy,
anyway.
2011/10/29 Mattia Rizzi mattia.ri...@gmail.com
What are you talking about? You said that gamma rays had longest
wavelength then visibile
As noted, there is a photo of Fioravanti and some comments about him by
Lewan here:
http://theeestory.com/posts/215391
I asked Lewan:
Do you know anything about this person? Do you think it is possible he is a
fake who actually works for Rossi? He looks a little old for that.
I do not
Oh, only a small error you think?
Energy =~ 1/wavelength
You said Energy =~ wavelength
From: Daniel Rocha
Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2011 5:36 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: Hey, it didn't blow up! And by the way, there does seem
to be a permit.
You are picking up on
Yes, a typo kind of error.
2011/10/29 Mattia Rizzi mattia.ri...@gmail.com
Oh, only a small error you think?
Energy =~ 1/wavelength
You said Energy =~ wavelength
*From:* Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com
*Sent:* Saturday, October 29, 2011 5:36 PM
*To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com
*Subject:*
Mattia Rizzi mattia.ri...@gmail.com wrote:
You need to get a lawsuit against Rossi before asking it.
That's a shame. Okay, maybe you can find out if the people who signed the
report are registered as licensed engineers. See the thread I just posted
about Domenico Fioravanti. The U.S. now has
On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 11:41 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:
As noted, there is a photo of Fioravanti and some comments about him by
Lewan here:
http://theeestory.com/posts/215391
His picture here:
http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3303681.ece
will
If it is his real name?! It is a Domenico Fioravanti hero sprtsman- kind of
Mark Spitz or Michael Phelps of Italy.
I will make a people search for the US.
But very probably not the real name.
On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 6:41 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:
As noted, there is a photo
On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 11:53 AM, Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com wrote:
If it is his real name?! It is a Domenico Fioravanti hero sprtsman- kind of
Mark Spitz or Michael Phelps of Italy.
I will make a people search for the US.
But very probably not the real name.
Fioravanti.it are famous
Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com wrote:
I will make a people search for the US.
He appears to be Italian. Why would he be registered in the U.S? I can look
in a Japanese registry but he probably isn't there either.
But very probably not the real name.
What on earth makes you think that
I donÄt think Rossi will cooperate with the military. He said about
Defkalion:
Defkalion will manufacture units up to 20KW for
different*non-military*applications within 2011 and Defkalion intends
to use this technology in a*socially*responsible manner
I recall an old phrase attributed to Sherlock Holmes along the lines of “Once
all of the probable answers have been proven wrong, then it must be the
improbable”. Someone among the vortex will correct my phrase and that is a
good thing. My wording is incorrect, but that is not the important
In the Piantelli-Focardi experiments they had either gamma radiation or
thermal energy. They did never observe both together. This is what I
have read in a paper, written by Focardi himself.
They can however not have had some ten watts of gamma radiation, because
they are still alive. ;-)
Peter Heckert peter.heck...@arcor.de wrote:
The truth behind might be this: Focardi /thinks/ there could be dangerous
gamma radiation under circumstances, but they never measured this and dont
know.
If so, then he has lied all time to us.
If not so, then he has lied to the authorities to
Am 29.10.2011 18:25, schrieb Jed Rothwell:
Or the Italian authorities decided for some reason not to worry about
gamma rays, and did not order them to put up signs.
This some reason could be some Euros or something like that. Mafia is
everywhere ;-)
Am 29.10.2011 18:25, schrieb Jed Rothwell:
I think you should not accuse people of lying.
So dont do this too.
And dont say it is ridiculous to think about radiation.
It seems that the information about registered professional italian
engineers can be found here:
http://www.tuttoingegnere.it/web/ITA/Registro-U/ricerca.asp_cvt.asp
I do not speak italian, but I can read a little. It seems to me that not
every italian engineer is registered there, it depends
Greetings Vortex:
I went to http://www.newenergytimes.com no insight...did some one kick the
pluggg.
Grins,
Ron Kita
What do you mean? Did something change there? I see nothing different...
2011/10/29 Ron Kita chiralex.k...@gmail.com
Greetings Vortex:
I went to http://www.newenergytimes.com no insight...did some one kick
the pluggg.
Grins,
Ron Kita
You have to check his web log:
http://blog.newenergytimes.com/
T
Rossi no-comments :
Andrea Rossi
October 29th, 2011 at 12:14 PM
http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=516cpage=5#comment-105875
Dear Max:
The Customer is of a category that usually maintains secret all they do. I do
not know if and when they will want to make public statements and I am
On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 1:35 PM, Alan Fletcher a...@well.com wrote:
Rossi no-comments :
Andrea Rossi
October 29th, 2011 at 12:14 PM
http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=516cpage=5#comment-105875
Dear Max:
The Customer is of a category that usually maintains secret all they do. I
That register is incomplete cannot be trusted.
It is stated on the search page and its the truth: i put many names of
registered engineers I know and no one shows. I trust my friends
much more than that database.
Si precisa pertanto che il presente elenco non comprende
necessariamente tutti gli
Area 51?
2011/10/29 Alan Fletcher a...@well.com
Rossi no-comments :
Andrea Rossi
October 29th, 2011 at 12:14 PM
http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=516cpage=5#comment-105875
Dear Max:
The Customer is of a category that usually maintains secret all they do. I
do not know if
Am 29.10.2011 19:55, schrieb Daniel Rocha:
Area 51?
Cosa Nostra?
Mafia!
;-)
2011/10/29 Alan Fletcher a...@well.com mailto:a...@well.com
Rossi no-comments :
Andrea Rossi
October 29th, 2011 at 12:14 PM
http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=516cpage=5#comment-105875
Exxon
I don't think the Mafia has written non-disclosure agreements.
But when things go wrong, they are known for putting out contracts
Peter Heckert peter.heck...@arcor.de wrote:
Am 29.10.2011 19:55, schrieb Daniel Rocha:
Area 51?
Cosa Nostra?
Mafia!
;-)
2011/10/29 Alan Fletcher a...@well.com
Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote:
The Customer is of a category that usually maintains secret all they do.
. . .
A skeptic forum member elsewhere predicted those words almost verbatim.
Not hard to predict. Rossi said that before the test. It may not be true,
but that is what he
Extract of a conversation with an anonymous source : - Original Message
-
By the way, You guys have not even begun to look at the issues with
the thermocouple measuring the secondary input temperature.
That error works against Rossi.
(Hint: The connector on the end of the hose is
On 11-10-29 12:06 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com mailto:peter.gl...@gmail.com wrote:
I will make a people search for the US.
He appears to be Italian. Why would he be registered in the U.S?
Registered as what?
I've worked as an engineer in the U.S. and I
- no blank run without hydrogen to test the instruments and heat
losses: Mary Yugo: Rich Murray 2011.10.29
er, I'm still a pragmatic skeptic re 470 KW Rossi claim... Rich Murray
- no blank run without hydrogen to test the instruments and heat losses
Other things to investigate:
whether only a
Jed, I meant with calibration, that there was not measured the amount of
steam. Amount of steam correlates with temperature, but this correlation
was not established. Therefore we do not have any means to know, how much
steam is 104.5°C. However I take back that I took back my words.
I was
Document downloaded from here:
http://db.tt/wu4OLbgk
Corrected version. A few confusing spelling errors have been corrected from
the original.
TESTS TO PROOF THE LEONARDO 1 MW REACTOR WORKING BY MEANS OF LOW-ENERGY
NUCLEAR REACTIONS – PROTOCOL PREPARED BY THE PARTIES
The test has been
I am of the contrarian opinion; for an American, this is the very best of
news. If the customer is a military organization (the US Navy), the
security apparatus of the associated country (the US) is now available in
all its varied and potent forms both known and clandestine to protect the
Rossi
On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 4:14 PM, Stephen A. Lawrence sa...@pobox.com wrote:
I never met a licensed engineer in the States.
You have online. (waving)
T
Jouni Valkonen jounivalko...@gmail.com wrote:
Jed, I meant with calibration, that there was not measured the amount of
steam. Amount of steam correlates with temperature, but this correlation was
not established. Therefore we do not have any means to know, how much steam
is 104.5°C. However
What is an RFG? As in: The reactors have been served by a RFG . . .
There are some minor corrections to this report coming from Rossi. I will
upload a new version later. They are:
1. The weight of the hydrogen bottle is in grams, not kilograms.
2. The indicated flow rate of the pumps at the end
I would suggest that someone over at Rossi's blog ask Rossi for information
on Domenico Fiorvanati. State the request simply and politely. Mention the
fact that many sincere individuals are looking information, documentation,
links... anything that would help verify the professional credentials of
From Mr. Murray,
...
er, I'm still a pragmatic skeptic re 470 KW Rossi claim...
Hello Rich,
Lately, I've noticed that you have repeatedly prefaced your posts with
claims that not only are you a skeptic, but that you are a pragmatic
skeptic. I keep wondering who you really are trying to
Registration requirements are governed by the state in the US.
Generally, if you are registered in one state, you can obtain comity
in another by application with that state. Georgia also offers comity
with other countries. I work for Atkins North America, a division of
the UK firm (
I was assuming RFG was the Radio Frequency Generator
Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:
What is an RFG? As in: The reactors have been served by a RFG . . .
There are some minor corrections to this report coming from Rossi. I will
upload a new version later. They are:
1. The weight of
Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote:
I'm sure that registration requirements are quite different in other
countries since there is such a variance between states here.
To summarize, even if we find no trace of Fioravanti on line, he may well be
a P.E.
If we can track him down, that proves
And now for something entirely different:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/22/alien-video-claims-to-be-_n_1025849.html
Whadya think? Grey pumpkin?
T
Terry sez:
And now for something entirely different:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/22/alien-video-claims-to-be-
_n_1025849.html
Whadya think? Grey pumpkin?
Yup!
Regards,
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Regarding the title of this thread, it is ridiculous. HVAC engineers do not
do blank runs when they certify 1 MW boiler performance. That's not how
they work. As I said, that is like expecting a bridge inspector to construct
another bridge next to the one he is inspecting, in order to compare the
Hi Steven Vincent Johnson,
Yes, I use pragmatic skepticism to define my role in my own mind,
namely, common sense applied to details that can be comprehended by a
scientific layman, which since December, 1996 has been a successful
strategy for finding flaws in CF research -- pathological skeptic
Andrea Rossi
October 29th, 2011 at 12:07 PM
Dear Devis,
Of course I will remember always all the friends who have encouraged
the efforts of my team and mine.
I thank all with all my heart, and this is dedicated also to all the
Friends who have sent all these comments, so heart warming, to which I
James Bowery
October 29th, 2011 at 11:40 AM
What was the pressure at the output thermocouple?
Why the electric power generator (genset) has not been turned off during the
self sustained mode?
Andrea Rossi
October 29th, 2011 at 11:46 AM
Dear James Bowery:
max 20 mm in water column was the
In reply to David Roberson's message of Sat, 29 Oct 2011 12:10:37 -0400 (EDT):
Hi David,
[snip]
I suggest you take a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betavoltaics
Regards,
Robin van Spaandonk
http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Thanks Robin,
I took a look at that link and see that such a battery does in fact exist. I
may have used a term that is not common in the industry when I referred to beta
+ decay as just beta decay, but I think most people understood what I intended.
My reference was the Wikipedia article
That the E-Cat operates without much noise is good news, and expected
considering only a muffled boiling noise is expected. Maybe they took
a sound reading from inside the reactor using a noise canceling mic
and/or closed the container doors. Maybe it was just an educated guess
of little
Maybe the generator was just idle, this is why it wasn`t making too much
noise. One of these days, I went near the electric generator of my office`s
new building and it was extremely noisy when it was on full power. Most of
the time it is inaudible...
2011/10/30 ecat builder ecatbuil...@gmail.com
Validation of New Energy Source from nickel -hydrogen reaction by
Rowan University in 2008.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfjOIoPwolg
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