Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together?

Alain, Your linked piece set up a straw man. I have been around too long and seen to much of the world jump on board the latest consensus. With LENR the evidence that is works is sufficient to think it does. That can't be said for individuals like Rossi and Mills - yet. I don't know for

Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together?

color blind in a sea of red flags It seems some consider that a place wher you can debate is a place where the enemy have control, especially if he raises a mass of clear evidence that are very very annoying. LENR community have to clean it's glasses, like APS have to.

Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together?

I view post modernism as a sick joke, expressed by generally meaningless sentences. Why Puckrose would waste so many words writing about it is a puzzle. Making astroturf has a purpose even if it is evil and for greed. AA On 3/29/2017 4:38 PM, Alain Sepeda wrote: Maybe this is because of

Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together?

Maybe this is because of the French https://areomagazine.com/2017/03/27/how-french-intellectuals-ruined-the-west-postmodernism-and-its-impact-explained/ I have the subtle impression some of us live in an information bubble... Is it me? 2017-03-29 18:14 GMT+02:00 a.ashfield

Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together?

It seems that this forum with Beene, Jed Rothwell et al are doing a pretty good job of "astroturfing" https://youtu.be/-bYAQ-ZZtEU (Thanks Sifferkoll) See also. http://www.sifferkoll.se/sifferkoll/why-is-it-important-for-dardenindustrial-heat-to-take-control-of-the-lenr-forum/ AA On

Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together?

On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 3:43 PM, Jones Beene wrote: > For anyone needing a smile (and don't we all?) an amazing mystery image of > the reinvented-inventor has appeared on lenr-forum.com ... > > https://www.lenr-forum.com/attachment/1532-17504250-10154451 >

Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together?

Beene, What makes you think that is Rossi? Or do you just lap up fake news? AA On 3/28/2017 3:43 PM, Jones Beene wrote: For anyone needing a smile (and don't we all?) an amazing mystery image of the reinvented-inventor has appeared on lenr-forum.com ...

Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together?

For anyone needing a smile (and don't we all?) an amazing mystery image of the reinvented-inventor has appeared on lenr-forum.com ... https://www.lenr-forum.com/attachment/1532-17504250-10154451685095794-8147171188661115195-o-jpg/ It's early for jury consultants, but the "Redford look" is in

Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together?

Beene, You don't get to order me not to comment. As I said, it it probably better for you to insult those who are not here to answer you. Otherwise they might show up your "palpable ignorance," AA On 3/28/2017 12:45 PM, Jones Beene wrote: a.ashfield wrote: I confirm that I am not being

Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together?

a.ashfield wrote: I confirm that I am not being paid by anybody. If you think my English is the same as Rossi's you need your head examined. Enough of this nonsense. How about this - I refrain from comment on your posts and you don't comment on mine...

Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together?

Beene, I confirm that I am not being paid by anybody. If you think my English is the same as Rossi's you need your head examined. I have not said I KNOW if the E-Cat works, despite your claim. I have consistently said "Wait and see." II think it probably does work. Unlike you I don't

Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together?

bobcook39...@gmail.com wrote: I concluded some time ago that Ashfield is not being paid by Rossi and is commenting in a manner that is well meaning, independent and without any kind of compensation, be it egotistical gratification or otherwise. OK, he is not being paid - I will accept

RE: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together?

keeps the gas cool.” This is consistent with my understanding of how CFL’s work. Bob Cook From: Jones Beene Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2017 6:51 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together? Ashfield's ignorance of basic facts here is palpable. Either he

Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together?

--- *From:* a.ashfield <a.ashfi...@verizon.net> *Sent:* Sunday, March 26, 2017 8:19 PM *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together? Supposedly the plasma is >3500C. As it runs without any input power why do you not think it generates any (excess)

Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together?

by division by zero. *From:* Brian Ahern <ahern_br...@msn.com> *Sent:* Monday, March 27, 2017 5:38 AM *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together? It has never been independently observed, but is often quoted. If it was true, he could openl

Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together?

-- *From:* Brian Ahern <ahern_br...@msn.com> *Sent:* Monday, March 27, 2017 5:38 AM *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together? It has never been independently observed, but is often quoted.

Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together?

obtained by division by zero. *From:* Brian Ahern <ahern_br...@msn.com> *Sent:* Monday, March 27, 2017 5:38 AM *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together? It has never b

Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together?

but I did not comment on capacitors. *From:* a.ashfield <a.ashfi...@verizon.net> *Sent:* Monday, March 27, 2017 9:48 PM *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together? Brian, N

Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together?

I may be arrogant when it comes to Mills, Rossi and Godes, but I did not comment on capacitors. From: a.ashfield <a.ashfi...@verizon.net> Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 9:48 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped to

Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together?

I still thinks they will reach 500 degrees months before 3000 degrees. I have got a lot of respect for getting that thing up to 3000. On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 4:00 AM, a.ashfield wrote: > PEVs are pocket change in a game of this magnitude. Time is of the > essence. If

Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together?

PEVs are pocket change in a game of this magnitude. Time is of the essence. If they were going to have trouble with a controller, that would still happen. AA On 3/27/2017 6:44 PM, Stefan Israelsson Tampe wrote: >> That does not sound logical to me. They are close enough to having

Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together?

. *From:* Brian Ahern <ahern_br...@msn.com> *Sent:* Monday, March 27, 2017 5:38 AM *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together? It has never been independently observed, but is often quoted. If it was true, he could openly demon

Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together?

>> That does not sound logical to me. They are close enough to having photovoltaics that it seems pointless to mess around with water calorimetry. I believe that they would not risk damaging the photovoltaics with a bad controller and spend quite some time to make it robust and verified, why not

Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together?

/rewards calculations are obtained by division by zero. From: Brian Ahern <ahern_br...@msn.com> Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 5:38 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together? It has never been independently ob

RE: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together?

[mailto:bobcook39...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 10:50 AM To: Bob Higgins; vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together? Bob— Mills and Rossi do not hold a candle to the hype made by the hot fusion community over the years and the golden eggs they have

Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together?

Stefan, "I got the impression that these validatoins will be done when they close the system reliably and not when they manage to get the photovoltaics functioning which is logical." That does not sound logical to me. They are close enough to having photovoltaics that it seems pointless to

Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together?

As I understand the crucial thing to achieve good evidences is to close the reactor and run it for long enough time with plain old water bath calormetry. Previously he had to shut down the experiment after just a short time. Closing the system can reveal new caveats and difficulties so this step

RE: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together?

Bob— Mills and Rossi do not hold a candle to the hype made by the hot fusion community over the years and the golden eggs they have accumulated. Bob Cook Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Bob Higgins Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 9:16 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Should Mills

RE: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together?

Subject: Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together? bobcook39...@gmail.com wrote: Jones— I assume you lump Rossi’s one-month Lugano test in with your definition of  scam-built  “half-truths” tests. We will see.   Bob Cook. Funny you should mention "half-truth" Bob, since it is not

Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together?

Bob, " If Mills wants to convince his critics, he should publish credible calorimetry of one of his devices over the course of a reasonable time period (at least twelve hours). He should describe the experiment in detail, and provide data and analysis." I doubt he has any incentive to

Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together?

Bib, Wow! you guys are harsh! I think Mills should be given the benefit of the doubt. He has raised plenty of money & a lot of due diligence has been done over the years. Why should he invite competition by proving anything? Especially with the US Patent office problems. At my age I don't

Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together?

I don't think anyone outside of Mills' team can say that he has made even 1W of excess heat from any of his devices. The one quick bomb calorimetry demo done was very crude calorimetry, was not believable, and a paper was not published on it. If Mills wants to convince his critics, he should

Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together?

.@verizon.net> *Sent:* Sunday, March 26, 2017 8:19 PM *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together? Supposedly the plasma is >3500C. As it runs without any input power why do you not think it generates any (excess) heat? AA On 3/26/2017 7:35 PM

Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together?

Jones, I wonder if you are confused by the rating of a CFL being 5000C. The argon in a CFL is not nearly completely ionized, it is a gas discharge, but not a full plasma. Being fully ionized is not necessary for the CLF gas, which is merely there to hold the mercury that emits the UV

Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together?

bobcook39...@gmail.com wrote: Jones—I assume you lump Rossi’s one-month Lugano test in with your definition of scam-built “half-truths” tests.We will see. Bob Cook. Funny you should mention "half-truth" Bob, since it is not quite half... 47% actually. I support the conclusion of Bob

Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together?

allenging. From: a.ashfield <a.ashfi...@verizon.net><mailto:a.ashfi...@verizon.net> Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2017 1:19 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com> Subject: Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together? Brian, Apart from some calorimetry on th

RE: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together?

Jones— I assume you lump Rossi’s one-month Lugano test in with your definition of scam-built “half-truths” tests. We will see. Bob Cook. Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Jones Beene Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2017 6:49 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi

Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together?

a.ashfield wrote: ...Supposedly the plasma is >3500C. A plasma at 3500C is commonplace and found in every house - but almost meaningless in terms of energy content... yet typical of Mills' genius at deception. The plasma in a common 5 watt CFL can be >6000C. Electrons in a plasma can be

Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together?

ing. *From:* a.ashfield <a.ashfi...@verizon.net> *Sent:* Sunday, March 26, 2017 1:19 PM *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together? Brian, Apart from some calorimetry on the SunCell in the early days, would you not thi

Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together?

As for "non-radiation" of dense hydrogen, according to Mayer the binding energy of the electron in dense hydrogen is around 3.7 keV. A single x-ray of this energy is emitted on densification, which is contrary to Mills view of multiple steps. Once radiated, of course, the dense hydrogen then

Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together?

They needn't be lying. Measuring energy flow with a plasma is challenging. From: a.ashfield <a.ashfi...@verizon.net> Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2017 1:19 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together? Brian, Apart fro

Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together?

Hi Robin, *Sorry to have mis-associated the credit for this observation!* It is a good one. Bob On Sun, Mar 26, 2017 at 1:47 PM, wrote: > In reply to Bob Higgins's message of Sat, 25 Mar 2017 09:33:46 -0600: > Hi, > [snip] > >The predicted properties of the hydrino or

Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together?

In reply to Bob Higgins's message of Sat, 25 Mar 2017 09:33:46 -0600: Hi, [snip] >The predicted properties of the hydrino or any sub-ground-state hydrogen >suggest that it will be really hard to detect. According to Meulenberg, >these states lack sufficient angular momentum to have a photon

Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together?

and failed the investment stream would cease. *From:* a.ashfield <a.ashfi...@verizon.net> *Sent:* Sunday, March 26, 2017 11:23 AM *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together? Er

Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together?

ease. > > -- > *From:* a.ashfield <a.ashfi...@verizon.net> > *Sent:* Sunday, March 26, 2017 11:23 AM > *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com > *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together? > > Eric, > I don't feel expert enough to pass jud

Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together?

and failed the investment stream would cease. From: a.ashfield <a.ashfi...@verizon.net> Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2017 11:23 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together? Eric, I don't feel expert enough to pass jud

Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together?

Eric, I don't feel expert enough to pass judgement. I think that is the point. Physicists more expert than me can't make up their minds whether Mills is a genius or delusional. That he can come up with values for particles that are more accurate than from QM and that his program can show

RE: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together?

be laying platinum, iridium or osmium eggs, as golden eggs become cheaper by the dozen. Bob Cook From: a.ashfield Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2017 2:49 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together? To me it looks like the hand waving is largely from

Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together?

On Sat, Mar 25, 2017 at 4:49 PM, a.ashfield wrote: To me it looks like the hand waving is largely from the skeptics. I have > yet to see a specific item that is wrong in Mills theories highlighted by > them. > Did you take a look at the link I sent? Can you help us to

Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together?

To me it looks like the hand waving is largely from the skeptics. I have yet to see a specific item that is wrong in Mills theories highlighted by them. Rossi had it right years ago when he stated the skeptics will never believe an experiment but only the sale of working commercial units.

RE: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together?

apparent charge, however. Bob Cook From: Bob Higgins Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2017 9:26 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together? There is also the possibility of one or more of the S orbital electrons of the larger parent atom being taken

Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together?

Eric Walker wrote: The thing that trips me up with BrLP is that the Grand Unified Theory of Classical Physics (GUT-CP) book is hand-wavy I guess I'm open to BrLP having some experimental phenomenon that keeps them going. But in that case I wonder why they would publish the several volumes

Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together?

The thing that trips me up with BrLP is that the Grand Unified Theory of Classical Physics (GUT-CP) book is hand-wavy, and I have a hard time not concluding that this is other than intentional. I had my suspicions from the start, but they were more than borne out when we actually looked at one of

Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together?

Bob Higgins wrote: I just can't imagine a hydrino being able to share an electronic state with another atom because the hydrino's electron is so tightly bound to the hydrino nucleus - not an ordinary valence bond for sure. ... a premise for this is extreme magnetic binding In a high

Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together?

There is also the possibility of one or more of the S orbital electrons of the larger parent atom being taken into a sub-ground hydrino state. In which case, each of the electrons in such a state would screen a proton and make those protons appear like neutrons. For example, say one of the S

Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together?

Bob Higgins wrote: The predicted properties of the hydrino or any sub-ground-state hydrogen suggest that it will be really hard to detect... It must be detected by proxy. Like detecting the neutrino, detection of the hydrino will require new, inventive techniques Bob, I generally agree

Re: [Vo]:Should Mills and Rossi be lumped together?

The predicted properties of the hydrino or any sub-ground-state hydrogen suggest that it will be really hard to detect. According to Meulenberg, these states lack sufficient angular momentum to have a photon transaction. Thus, the hydrino hydrogen would not have telltale absorption spectra of