The BMW UUC Digest Volume 2 : Issue 561 : "text" Format Messages in this Issue: E36 climate control panel fix Re: E36 climate control panel fix Varta e36 spring rates - track cars e36 brake pads - track cars Re: e36 brake pads - track cars Re: e36 brake pads - track cars Re: e36 brake pads - track cars thE coolest bmw-related thiNG ever (realLy not, but you wISH) Looking for a winter project? Re: Looking for a winter project? Carfax Please Re: e36 brake pads - track cars
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 01:58:11 -0800 From: JKerouac <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "[uucdigest]" <[email protected]>, bmw digest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: E36 climate control panel fix Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Been looking for the 'soldering iron' fix to the E36 climate control panel. Anyone have the direct link for it? 'Jack start winking at me last night, what a frustrating annoyance. I see why others have been so bothered by it. tia, Barry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 09:44:26 -0800 (PST) From: "Jim Bassett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: E36 climate control panel fix Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> On Thu, February 24, 2005 1:58 am, JKerouac said: > Been looking for the 'soldering iron' fix to the E36 climate control > panel. > Anyone have the direct link for it? http://www.macadamizer.com/bmwfix.html Cheers, Jim Bassett 1998 M3/4 - fixed per above 1993 325is #44 JP ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 10:30:03 -0500 (EST) From: John Drendel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Varta Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Peel off the plastic labels (carefully, you can stick them back on), the plugs are underneath John ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 12:40:59 -0500 From: "chet.dawes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Subject: e36 spring rates - track cars Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> All, I'm doing some 'initial' suspension set-up on a '95 M3. This car was bone stock when I acquired it but is in track car development to be deployed May 12th (Mid-Ohio DE). I'd like to call on the collective wisdom and experience of the group for a little empirical data on suspension set-up: For your M3, or other e36 coupe, what are your front and rear spring rates? How about corner weight data? Has anyone else measured the front and/or rear spring to wheel motion ratios? How do you think the car feels (balanced, understeer, oversteer)? Here is what I have so far for my OE springs as measured: Front = 97 lb/in, 13.5" free length Rear = 295 lb/in, 9.25" free length Test results indicate a very linear rate both front and rear despite the bee-hive taper wire shape of the rear spring. Looks can be deceptive as the combination of the tapered wire and changing spring diameter result in a very linear spring rate. Front motion ratio has not been measured by me yet; however, I have a few data points from others that suggest an approximate motion ratio of 0.80 (spring/wheel displacement). Rear motion ratio I've measured and compare/agree with other measurements to arrive with a value of 0.64. I'd classify my desired ride/handling character of the car as a 'wild street' to 'moderate track' set-up. The car does not ride on a trailer to events; I drive it there and for spirited drives on the back roads. I want the track handling to be as well balanced as possible and plan to change anti-roll bars as well to help fine tune the balance. No big power gains are to be had on my budget right now, so stock-like power is what I'll have to deal with. Race car, DE car and street car data is all welcome!!! Please when you get a chance send me any data you might have and include any trials and tribulations you may have gone through to get to the set-up you have today. If you have changed sway bars, please note. Thanks! Chet Dawes **************************************************************************************** Note: The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential and thus protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Thank you. **************************************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 13:02:05 -0500 From: "chet.dawes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Subject: e36 brake pads - track cars Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> All, Okay, same car, different quandary: Track pads! Any advice would be appreciated. I'll swap pads for normal street use, so these will be to/from and on track use only. Application is an e36 M3 with stock-like power but heavy suspension mods. Brake ducting is currently stock, but may be changed as required. Hawk Blues: I've used Hawk Blues on a previous BMW and while I loved the feel, bite, cost, etc. the dust was outrageous and they eat rotors at a pretty healthy rate. After a typical 2 day DE (most was in the rain) the clean-up of the brake dust was very difficult. I'm not afraid of brake dust and I've cleaned my share of race wheels, etc. but I thought I was going to ruin the finish on my wheels it was stuck so bad! I think this had a lot to do with the rain and the subsequent street driving from 200+ miles to/from the track to my home, but I cleaned them the following day. I struggled to remove the dust from the paint on the car, wheels, etc. The car was lighter (supercharged and otherwise modified 318ti) with significantly smaller brakes than the M3 but a similar speed potential to a stock M3. PFC 97: I've not used these, but feedback I've heard includes poor initial bite, very hard pedal (high effort for a given Mu), wear like iron, low dust, rotor friendly and they are expensive. PFC 01: Again, no personal experience, but feedback indicates better bite and pedal feel than the 97's, also rather expensive. Cool Willy: Turner's web site raves about them, otherwise I've not heard any feedback. Cost seems pretty reasonable too. Pagid Orange: No direct experience, but feedback includes poor performance unless fully hot, cool use (such as too/from the track?) can result in horrible pad transfer layer deposition resulting in brake shudder, etc. Pagid RS-14: Second hand experience with these indicates low life expectancy, potential to crumble and fall apart after a 3 hour enduro, etc. EBC: Everything I've heard indicates STAY AWAY..... Any others I should consider or not consider? Please share your experience and recommendations. Thanks! Chet Dawes **************************************************************************************** Note: The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential and thus protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Thank you. **************************************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 10:09:38 -0800 From: Mark Dadgar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: e36 brake pads - track cars Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> On Feb 24, 2005, at 10:02 AM, chet.dawes wrote: > Brake ducting is currently stock, but may be changed as required. You may want to try that first. The combination of the JTD underpanel and the Bimmerworld brake ducting kit is the hot setup. > Hawk Blues: > I've used Hawk Blues on a previous BMW and while I loved the feel, > bite, > cost, etc. the dust was outrageous and they eat rotors at a pretty > healthy rate. They eat rotors at a totally outrageous rate, but only when used cold. And by "cold" I mean "not at track temperatures." So you will destroy your rotors on the way to/from the track each time. > After a typical 2 day DE (most was in the rain) the > clean-up of the brake dust was very difficult. What group do you run at DE's? If anything but "Advanced," I'd recommend using stock pads and working on your braking technique. Just my $0.02 as an instructor. > I'm not afraid of brake > dust and I've cleaned my share of race wheels, etc. but I thought I was > going to ruin the finish on my wheels it was stuck so bad! I think > this > had a lot to do with the rain and the subsequent street driving from > 200+ miles to/from the track to my home, but I cleaned them the > following day. It has EVERYTHING to do with the rain. I find Simple Green does a decent job of removing the dust on the wheels, BTW. > PFC 97: > I've not used these, but feedback I've heard includes poor initial > bite, > very hard pedal (high effort for a given Mu), wear like iron, low dust, > rotor friendly and they are expensive. I used the old PF90's and I liked them a lot. They also work well enough at street temperatures. > Pagid Orange: > No direct experience, but feedback includes poor performance unless > fully hot, cool use (such as too/from the track?) can result in > horrible > pad transfer layer deposition resulting in brake shudder, etc. Very expensive and HIGHLY rated by the Porsche community. They are LOUD AS HELL when cold and on the street. > Any others I should consider or not consider? Please share your > experience and recommendations. Hawk HT-10. I didn't care for them on my race car but lots of people love them (James Clay, etc). I like my pads to be a bit more linear, I guess. - Mark E35 325is JP #117, Hawk Blues, Bimmerworld brake ducting kit ----- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Check out my JustRacing Home Page at: http://www.justracing.com/homepage/mdadgar ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 14:28:39 -0500 From: "Marc Plante" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: e36 brake pads - track cars Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ----- Original Message ----- From: "chet.dawes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: [UUC] e36 brake pads - track cars Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 13:02:05 -0500 > > > All, > Okay, same car, different quandary: > Track pads! Any advice would be appreciated. I'll swap pads for normal > street use, so these will be to/from and on track use only. Application > is an e36 M3 with stock-like power but heavy suspension mods. Brake > ducting is currently stock, but may be changed as required. Depending on your level of expertise and the track (some are harder on brakes than others. Stock is OK. Step up is the Bimmerworld backing plates with an elbow pointing towards the stock duct. Phase 2 would be running the ducting, though that can get intrusive for daily driving. I'll second Mark D's comments as a second instructor. Stock work well on the track for all but hard advanced driving. I still go out on stock pads myself from time to time. Performance Friction PFZs are a compromise with slightly higher operating temps than stock. Also consider the Carbo Tech+ or XP8's http://www.carbotecheng.com/prod-ct-compounds.htm or even the Panther+ compound as another streetable entry level track tire. Their temp ranges look good for entry level track driving. Carbo techs are said to be more rotor and wheel friendly. No direct experience, but I'm going to be trying them this season. > PFC 97: > I've not used these, but feedback I've heard includes poor initial bite, > very hard pedal (high effort for a given Mu), wear like iron, low dust, > rotor friendly and they are expensive. Not necessarily low dust, and it makes a mess of the wheels in the rain. Kind of awkward to bed in, but are solid performers once set up. Share break in characteristics you described for the Pagid oranges. > > Cool Willy: > Turner's web site raves about them, otherwise I've not heard any > feedback. Cost seems pretty reasonable too. Reasonable entry level track pad, though I migrated to PF90 pads before I became a sophisticated consumer. Bit more bite and better wear than stock as I remember, though not the same durebility as the PF pads. Marc Plante E36 M3/4 Vienna, VA ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 17:04:57 -0600 From: Clarence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: e36 brake pads - track cars Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I have heard numerous times that the HT-10 was designed for cars heavier than the E30. Excuse my ignorance (nah, who cares) but what does this mean? I once had HT-10s on my E30 and except for the pads cracking in the middle, I loved them. My instructor was very impressed. It was the literal dropping an anchor. Unfortunately the pads I had cracked in the middle. The vendor replaced them after the first event, but after the second event (again cracking) the vendor replaced them w/Hawk Blues. The Blues are OK, but do not compare w/the stopping power of the HT-10s. I would like to go back to them, but again, the comment is always 'they're designed for heavier cars.' Maybe I should just put a coupla pounds in the trunk and run 'em. Clarence West Bend, WI Dinah DeRoller wrote: > Chet, > > Pedal feel is near that with the PF90s (which I loved).....initial bite the > same (mine always seem a bit soft, initially). They haul the car down very > quickly. My friend Vince Leo (races an E36 325) used them and they lasted > forever. They are designed for heavier cars than the E30. FYI, the PF97's > will destroy paint, wheels, anything if they get sparks on it when > cold.....not to be driven on the street (this, and the performance factor, > is why I won't use them) > > > Dinah > > ----- Original Message ----- From: chet.dawes > To: Dinah DeRoller > Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 2:30 PM > Subject: RE: [UUC] e36 brake pads - track cars > > > Dinah, > Thanks for the feedback! I'll definitely consider the HT-10s. How's the > pedal feel and initial bite with these? > Cheers, > Chet Dawes > > > > > From: Dinah DeRoller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 1:17 PM > To: Dawes, Chet ; [email protected] > Subject: Re: [UUC] e36 brake pads - track cars > > Chet, > > I use Hawk HT10s on my M3 - heavily suspension modified. They last forever > and stop well. Hated the PF 97s after they switched the compound from the PF > 90s. > > Dinah > '97 M3, many mods > '98 F355 Challenge > ----- Original Message ----- From: chet.dawes > To: [email protected] > Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 1:02 PM > Subject: [UUC] e36 brake pads - track cars > > > All, > Okay, same car, different quandary: > Track pads! Any advice would be appreciated. I'll swap pads for normal > street use, so these will be to/from and on track use only. Application > is an e36 M3 with stock-like power but heavy suspension mods. Brake > ducting is currently stock, but may be changed as required. > > Hawk Blues: > I've used Hawk Blues on a previous BMW and while I loved the feel, bite, > cost, etc. the dust was outrageous and they eat rotors at a pretty > healthy rate. After a typical 2 day DE (most was in the rain) the > clean-up of the brake dust was very difficult. I'm not afraid of brake > dust and I've cleaned my share of race wheels, etc. but I thought I was > going to ruin the finish on my wheels it was stuck so bad! I think this > had a lot to do with the rain and the subsequent street driving from > 200+ miles to/from the track to my home, but I cleaned them the > following day. I struggled to remove the dust from the paint on the > car, wheels, etc. The car was lighter (supercharged and otherwise > modified 318ti) with significantly smaller brakes than the M3 but a > similar speed potential to a stock M3. > > PFC 97: > I've not used these, but feedback I've heard includes poor initial bite, > very hard pedal (high effort for a given Mu), wear like iron, low dust, > rotor friendly and they are expensive. > > PFC 01: > Again, no personal experience, but feedback indicates better bite and > pedal feel than the 97's, also rather expensive. > > Cool Willy: > Turner's web site raves about them, otherwise I've not heard any > feedback. Cost seems pretty reasonable too. > > Pagid Orange: > No direct experience, but feedback includes poor performance unless > fully hot, cool use (such as too/from the track?) can result in horrible > pad transfer layer deposition resulting in brake shudder, etc. > > Pagid RS-14: > Second hand experience with these indicates low life expectancy, > potential to crumble and fall apart after a 3 hour enduro, etc. > > EBC: > Everything I've heard indicates STAY AWAY..... > > Any others I should consider or not consider? Please share your > experience and recommendations. > > Thanks! > Chet Dawes ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 14:04:06 -0500 From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: thE coolest bmw-related thiNG ever (realLy not, but you wISH) Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Gotcha! It's the "English" thread reborn! :-) Like [EMAIL PROTECTED], only more interesting and harder to filter out! For anyone who wanted to do even more reading on the history of the use of apostrophes in contractions and possessive nouns: http://www4.wittenberg.edu/academics/engl/GrammarDumb/K-Possessives.html Not trying to make a point. Just happened upon it while googling an entirely unrelated subject. Enjoy. - N. Jay ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 14:06:36 -0500 From: "Dennis Liu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "911" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Ferrari List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "BMW List" <[email protected]> Subject: Looking for a winter project? Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> So, tired of ricer boys tailgating you, daring you to race them? Check it out: http://www.axdo.net/exhaust_flame_thrower.asp Hmmmm.... Vty, --Dennis . ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 14:16:21 -0600 From: Peter Wheeler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: BMW List <[email protected]> Subject: Re: Looking for a winter project? Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Does anyone recommend a particular spark plug for this application? Bosch? NGK? Techniques for focus, distance, sound or flame color? I'm glad this list is going back to utter deviance, instead of spelling, punctuation, and grammar. Peter On Feb 24, 2005, at 1:06 PM, Dennis Liu wrote: So, tired of ricer boys tailgating you, daring you to race them? Check it out: http://www.axdo.net/exhaust_flame_thrower.asp Hmmmm.... Vty, --Dennis . Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] ________________________________________________________________________ __ In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 13:54:53 -0800 (PST) From: Nick Ortwein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: UUC Digest <[email protected]>, E30 Group <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Carfax Please Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Looking to grow the BMW Family... WBAFB33551LH15093 Thanks in Advance, Nick Ortwein 88 325is San Diego, CA ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 17:44:49 -0500 From: "Dinah DeRoller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "chet.dawes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[email protected]> Subject: Re: e36 brake pads - track cars Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Chet, Pedal feel is near that with the PF90s (which I loved).....initial bite the same (mine always seem a bit soft, initially). They haul the car down very quickly. My friend Vince Leo (races an E36 325) used them and they lasted forever. They are designed for heavier cars than the E30. FYI, the PF97's will destroy paint, wheels, anything if they get sparks on it when cold.....not to be driven on the street (this, and the performance factor, is why I won't use them) Dinah ----- Original Message ----- From: chet.dawes To: Dinah DeRoller Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 2:30 PM Subject: RE: [UUC] e36 brake pads - track cars Dinah, Thanks for the feedback! I'll definitely consider the HT-10s. How's the pedal feel and initial bite with these? Cheers, Chet Dawes From: Dinah DeRoller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 1:17 PM To: Dawes, Chet ; [email protected] Subject: Re: [UUC] e36 brake pads - track cars Chet, I use Hawk HT10s on my M3 - heavily suspension modified. They last forever and stop well. Hated the PF 97s after they switched the compound from the PF 90s. Dinah '97 M3, many mods '98 F355 Challenge ----- Original Message ----- From: chet.dawes To: [email protected] Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 1:02 PM Subject: [UUC] e36 brake pads - track cars All, Okay, same car, different quandary: Track pads! Any advice would be appreciated. I'll swap pads for normal street use, so these will be to/from and on track use only. Application is an e36 M3 with stock-like power but heavy suspension mods. Brake ducting is currently stock, but may be changed as required. Hawk Blues: I've used Hawk Blues on a previous BMW and while I loved the feel, bite, cost, etc. the dust was outrageous and they eat rotors at a pretty healthy rate. After a typical 2 day DE (most was in the rain) the clean-up of the brake dust was very difficult. I'm not afraid of brake dust and I've cleaned my share of race wheels, etc. but I thought I was going to ruin the finish on my wheels it was stuck so bad! I think this had a lot to do with the rain and the subsequent street driving from 200+ miles to/from the track to my home, but I cleaned them the following day. I struggled to remove the dust from the paint on the car, wheels, etc. The car was lighter (supercharged and otherwise modified 318ti) with significantly smaller brakes than the M3 but a similar speed potential to a stock M3. PFC 97: I've not used these, but feedback I've heard includes poor initial bite, very hard pedal (high effort for a given Mu), wear like iron, low dust, rotor friendly and they are expensive. PFC 01: Again, no personal experience, but feedback indicates better bite and pedal feel than the 97's, also rather expensive. Cool Willy: Turner's web site raves about them, otherwise I've not heard any feedback. Cost seems pretty reasonable too. Pagid Orange: No direct experience, but feedback includes poor performance unless fully hot, cool use (such as too/from the track?) can result in horrible pad transfer layer deposition resulting in brake shudder, etc. Pagid RS-14: Second hand experience with these indicates low life expectancy, potential to crumble and fall apart after a 3 hour enduro, etc. EBC: Everything I've heard indicates STAY AWAY..... Any others I should consider or not consider? Please share your experience and recommendations. Thanks! Chet Dawes **************************************************************************** ************ Note: The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential and thus protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Thank you. **************************************************************************** ************ Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] __________________________________________________________________________ In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com **************************************************************************** ************ Note: The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential and thus protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Thank you. **************************************************************************** ************ ------------------------------ End of [bmwuucdigest] digest(13 messages) **********
