On 30 Nov 2010, at 15:15, ronaldheld wrote:

Thanks Jason. Not certain how all of that helps. I will have think
more before I answer Bruno.
                                              Ronald


Ronald, I still don't know if you have a problem with the first steps of the UDA. Or if you have only a problem to explain this to others. I have often explained the first six steps of UDA to young people without problem (since many many years). Of course sometimes there is a taste problem. Women often told me that if that theory is true, it should be kept secret! I guess this might be due to the fact that women like the idea of being unique. Well, men also perhaps, but they don't dare to tell me, apparently.




http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/quant-ph/pdf/0205/0205092v8.pdf
Bruno(and anyone else)
                               Ronald


That seems very unclear on both mind and matter, and also on the relations between (it seems to me after a quick reading). Note that UDA works also in case the brain is a quantum computer (like in Hammerof). But it would not work in case Penrose (ultra- speculative) theory is correct, because Penrose makes Mechanism false at the start. His Gödelian argument that man is not a machine contains fatal errors, note. Nevertheless I *like* Penrose's idea that there is a link between consciousness and gravitation (and this is somehow felt in salvia experiences, (!), which alter both consciousness and gravity-feeling. Salvia is *bad* in case of sciatica notably!

Bruno




On Nov 28, 5:52 am, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:
On 27 Nov 2010, at 19:05, ronaldheld wrote:

Jason(and any others)
  Both. Level IV Universe is hard to explain even if real. Bruno's
reality is equally hard to convincing present.
                              Ronald

Do you agree/understand that if we are machine then we are in
principle duplicable?  This entails subjective indeterminacy.
All the rest follows from that, and few people have problems to
understand UDA 1-7.

UDA-8, which justifies immateriality, is slightly more subtle, but if
you have followed the last conversation on it on the list (with
Jacques Mallah, Stathis, ..) you could understand than to block the
movie graph argument you have to attribute a computational role to the
physical activity of something having non physical activity, and I
don't see how we could still accept a digital brain in this case. With
just UDA 1-7 you could already understand that most of quantum
weirdness (indeterminacy, non-locality, non-clonability) is a
qualitative almost direct consequence of digital mechanism (even in
presence of a primitively material universe).

AUDA, the Löbian interview, is another matter because you need
familiarity with mathematical logic and recursion theory.

Tell me please what you don't understand in the first steps of UDA. I
am always interested to have an idea of what is it that people don't
grasp. I am writing some "official" papers now, and that could help.
Up to now the results are more ignored than criticized, or is
considered as crap by religious atheist/materialist, without rational
arguments. Tell me if you have a problem with the subjective (first
person) indeterminacy. Thanks.

Bruno







On Nov 26, 12:02 am, Jason Resch <jasonre...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 1:50 PM, ronaldheld <ronaldh...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Jason:
 I see what you are saying up at our level of understanding, I do
not
know how to present that in a technically convincing matter.
                                                 Ronald

Which message in particular do you think is difficult to
present convincingly?  Tegmark's ideas that everything is real, or
the
suggestion that computer simulation might be a legitimate tool for
exploration?

Jason

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