David,

I was laughing all the way from the computer that '7 does not exist'. And
yes, it does not.
Do qualia exist without the substrate they serve for as qualia?
It goes into our deeper thought to identify 'existing' -
I am willing to go as far as "if our mind handles it, 'it' DOES exist"
so the quale like; 7(?) [i.e. the monitor for the eggs in your fridge] is
existing. Not answering the question 'what it is?" - but principally I am
also against ontology in a worldview of change, where "being" makes only
sense as "transitionally becoming" and transition substitutes for stagnancy.
Panta Rhei also boggles my mind, especially when I cut out conventional
time.

I asked several times: "what are numbers?" without getting a reasonable
reply.
Sometimes I really like 1Z's twists.

On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 2:32 PM, 1Z <peterdjo...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Feb 14, 6:21 pm, David Nyman <da...@davidnyman.com> wrote:
> > On 14 February 2011 12:35, 1Z <peterdjo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Oh come on. How can you say that after I just told
> > > you 7 doesn't exist.
> >
> > Wouldn't this then imply that computation also doesn't exist, in an
> > analogous sense?
>
> I can still have seven eggs in my fridge, and I can still
> have a computation running on a physical computer.
>
> >  And that consequently any computational
> > characterisation of the mental is in itself a mere fiction, reducing
> > to whatever physical behaviour is picked out under the rules of a
> > formal "game"?
>
> If computation is multiply realisable, it never reduces to
> any particular physical behaviour, even if it always instantiated a
> such
>
> >  I recall that you aren't committed to CTM per se, but
> > if what you say about mathematics is true, and only the physical is
> > real, wouldn't it follow a priori that CTM just eliminates the mind?
>
> No. Every running programme is physical. Only programmes
> with nothing to run on are eliminated
>
> > I know you've said before that reduction isn't elimination, but I'm
> > not clear what is supposed to have any claim to "reality" here, other
> > than the physical tokens instantiating the "computation".
> >
> > David
>
>
> If you have a physical token running a computation, you have
> a computation. What is eliminated?
>
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