On 14 February 2011 12:35, 1Z <peterdjo...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Oh come on. How can you say that after I just told
> you 7 doesn't exist.

Wouldn't this then imply that computation also doesn't exist, in an
analogous sense?  And that consequently any computational
characterisation of the mental is in itself a mere fiction, reducing
to whatever physical behaviour is picked out under the rules of a
formal "game"?  I recall that you aren't committed to CTM per se, but
if what you say about mathematics is true, and only the physical is
real, wouldn't it follow a priori that CTM just eliminates the mind?
I know you've said before that reduction isn't elimination, but I'm
not clear what is supposed to have any claim to "reality" here, other
than the physical tokens instantiating the "computation".

David

>
>
> On Feb 14, 8:47 am, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:
>> Do you believe that Goldbach conjecture is either true or false? If
>> you agree with this, then you accept arithmetical realism, which is
>> enough for the comp consequences.,
>
> Nope. Bivalence can be accepted as a formal rule and therefore
> not as a claim that some set of objects either exist or don't.
>
>> Do you believe that Church thesis makes sense? That is enough to say
>> that you believe in the 'arithmetical platonia'
>
> Not at all.
>
>>. People needs to be
>> ultrafinitist to reject the arithmetical platonia.
>
> No, they just need to be anti realist.
>
>> Personnaly I am a bit skeptical on set realism, because it is hard to
>> define it, but for the numbers I have never met people who are not
>> realist about them.
>
> Oh come on. How can you say that after I just told
> you 7 doesn't exist.
>
>> Even to say "I am not arithmetical realist" is
>> enough to be an arithmetical realist
>
> Nonsense.
>
>>. A real anti-ariothmetical
>> realist cannot even spaeak about arithmetical realism. You need to be
>> an arithmetical realist to make sense of denying it.
>>
>
> Like the old canard that to deny God is to accept God? Naah. Meaning
> is not
> just reference.
>
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