On 14 February 2011 19:32, 1Z <peterdjo...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
> "If you have a physical token running a computation, you have
> a computation. What is eliminated?

But such talk is all a posteriori and hence merely circular.  A
priori, if you claim that reality can be reduced to (i.e. actually
consists exclusively of) physical tokens doing whatever they are
doing, then that's all you have to play with, and moreover all you
appear to need to get the job done.  If you want to further claim that
"computation" also exists in some sense capable of accounting for all
the a posteriori appearances (including all this talk of computation
and mind) you need to get a bigger boat.  Or else you've just
eliminated both the computation and the mind (after all, who needs
'em? - not the physical tokens, apparently).  The distinction between
"reduction" and "elimination is mere absent-mindedness: you just have
to forget to remember that you can't eat your cake and still have it.

David


>
>
> On Feb 14, 6:21 pm, David Nyman <da...@davidnyman.com> wrote:
>> On 14 February 2011 12:35, 1Z <peterdjo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Oh come on. How can you say that after I just told
>> > you 7 doesn't exist.
>>
>> Wouldn't this then imply that computation also doesn't exist, in an
>> analogous sense?
>
> I can still have seven eggs in my fridge, and I can still
> have a computation running on a physical computer.
>
>>  And that consequently any computational
>> characterisation of the mental is in itself a mere fiction, reducing
>> to whatever physical behaviour is picked out under the rules of a
>> formal "game"?
>
> If computation is multiply realisable, it never reduces to
> any particular physical behaviour, even if it always instantiated a
> such
>
>>  I recall that you aren't committed to CTM per se, but
>> if what you say about mathematics is true, and only the physical is
>> real, wouldn't it follow a priori that CTM just eliminates the mind?
>
> No. Every running programme is physical. Only programmes
> with nothing to run on are eliminated
>
>> I know you've said before that reduction isn't elimination, but I'm
>> not clear what is supposed to have any claim to "reality" here, other
>> than the physical tokens instantiating the "computation".
>>
>> David
>
>
> If you have a physical token running a computation, you have
> a computation. What is eliminated?
>
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