Stathis and Brent,

I'll respond to both at once since they are the same core objection:

"Why does feeling have to have "purpose"? "

"I can't even conceive of what it would mean for them
to be justified. "

They have to be justified and have a purpose because that is what a
deterministic universe would require. Otherwise I can just say that a
deterministic universe includes libertarian free will, ghosts &
goblins, whatever. What business does a feeling have being in a
universe that is essentially a very sophisticated clock?


On Apr 4, 10:14 pm, Stathis Papaioannou <> wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 5, 2012 at 12:01 PM, Craig Weinberg <> wrote:
> >> Your claim that it is impossible to feel in a deterministic universe
> >> is unjustified. It's simply an idea you have taken a fancy to.
> > I don't claim that it is impossible to feel in a deterministic
> > universe, but I suspect that is the case since there is no
> > deterministic justification for or mechanism of 'feeling' of any kind.
> > We would have to imagine that there is some mysterious deterministic
> > purpose for it, otherwise there should be no possibility of feeling,
> > and a deterministic universe should really be pretty parsimonious when
> > it comes to allowing for mysterious purposes if it is to be logically
> > consistent. So there is a completely logical basis for suspecting that
> > feeling is impossible in a deterministic universe that has nothing to
> > do with taking a fancy to the idea. I don't care one way or another,
> > I'm only following the logic where it leads. What would determine that
> > feeling should exist?
> > My claim is that the feeling of free will is a special case that goes
> > beyond this because even the suggestion of free will is inconceivable
> > in a universe defined a priori as being deterministic. It would be
> > like saying we could imagine what the 500th dimension or a new primary
> > color is like.
> Why does feeling have to have "purpose"? The universe as a whole does
> not have "purpose" unless you believe in a certain kind of god.
> --
> Stathis Papaioannou

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