Marchal Hi Bruno 

By sin or evil I mean intentionally diminishing the life of others.
If you doubt that that is not the way of the world, you must not watch the news.
Evil is not an abstract word, it is very real, and it lives to whatever extent 
in each of us.

Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net
9/9/2012 
Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him 
so that everything could function."
----- Receiving the following content ----- 
From: Bruno Marchal 
Receiver: everything-list 
Time: 2012-09-08, 13:54:23
Subject: Re: fairness and sustainability








On 08 Sep 2012, at 16:41, Roger Clough wrote:


Hi Bruno Marchal 

Indeed, we are all sinners.






Hi Roger,


Saying this can only dilute the responsibility and helps the "sinners".


I am not sure at all we are all sinners, unless you are using a so weak sense 
that it is making every baby already sinning.


I am not sure about the notion of sin. It looks too much like an easy way to 
explain suffering, and it makes many people feeling guilty for no reason that 
they can see, and sometimes it can act as a self-prophecy: "given that I have 
already sin why not sin again?


I think that there is only one sin: hurting others without legitimate concern.


And most people don't sin, I think, 


Bruno








Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net
9/8/2012 
Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him 
so that everything could function."
----- Receiving the following content ----- 
From: Bruno Marchal 
Receiver: everything-list 
Time: 2012-09-08, 08:37:30
Subject: Re: fairness and sustainability




On 08 Sep 2012, at 12:35, Roger Clough wrote:


Hi John Mikes 

Here's the dilemma: 

Unfortunately, any system -- with the exception of the oil-rich countries
(where fairness would seem to be hard to define) -- 
that is completely fair is unsustainable. Capitalism,
like it or not, is the only known way to increase a 
country's wealth. Fairness decreases a country's capacity
to grow. Darwin would agree.

Cuba and the former soviet union and now europe
are good examples. They all failed in trying to be completely fair
or are in the process of failing.




I think that capitalism + democracy is the most fair system.


Today, unfortunately, capitalism has been perverted by minorities which build 
money on fears, lies and catastrophes, and that is very bad.


They are clever, and have succeeded in mixing the black and non black money, so 
that the middle class and the banking systems have become hostages.  Those 
liars are transforming the planet economy into a a pyramidal con.


Lying is part of nature, like cancers and diseases. Defending ourselves against 
liars is part of nature too.


Bruno














Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net
9/8/2012 
Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him 
so that everything could function."
----- Receiving the following content ----- 
From: John Mikes 
Receiver: everything-list 
Time: 2012-09-07, 14:44:26
Subject: Re: There is no such thing as cause and effect


Brent, 
I believe there is a difference between (adj) 'fair' or 'unjust' and the (noun) 
'fairness', or 'consciousness'. 
While the nouns (IMO)?re not adequately identified the adverbs refer to the 
applied system of correspondence. 
E.g.: "Fair" to the unjust system. (I don't think we may use the opposite: 
"unjust" to a 'fair' system in our discussion). 
As I tried to explain in another post: the 'rich' consume MORE of the 
country-supplied services than the not-so-rich and pay less taxes (unfair and 
unjust). Certain big corporations also pay 'less' than the system would require 
(in all fairness - proverbially said) ordinarily. 
Semantix, OOH!
John M


On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 4:18 PM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:

On 9/4/2012 1:12 PM, John Mikes wrote: 


It is a 'trap' to falsify the adequate taxing of the 'rich' as a leftist 
attempt to distributing richness. It does not include more than a requirement 
for THEM to pay their FAIR share - maybe more than the not-so-rich layers (e.g. 
higher use of transportation, foreign connections, financial means, etc. - all 
costing money to the country) in spite of their lower share in the present 
unjust?axation-scheme.
.. 


And PLEASE, Brent, do not even utter in econo-political discussion the word 
"FAIRNESS"!


So is it OK if I use "FAIR" and "unjust"?

Brent




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