On 08 Sep 2012, at 16:41, Roger Clough wrote:

Hi Bruno Marchal

Indeed, we are all sinners.



Hi Roger,

Saying this can only dilute the responsibility and helps the "sinners".

I am not sure at all we are all sinners, unless you are using a so weak sense that it is making every baby already sinning.

I am not sure about the notion of sin. It looks too much like an easy way to explain suffering, and it makes many people feeling guilty for no reason that they can see, and sometimes it can act as a self- prophecy: "given that I have already sin why not sin again?

I think that there is only one sin: hurting others without legitimate concern.

And most people don't sin, I think,

Bruno





Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net
9/8/2012
Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him
so that everything could function."
----- Receiving the following content -----
From: Bruno Marchal
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2012-09-08, 08:37:30
Subject: Re: fairness and sustainability


On 08 Sep 2012, at 12:35, Roger Clough wrote:

Hi John Mikes

Here's the dilemma:

Unfortunately, any system -- with the exception of the oil-rich countries
(where fairness would seem to be hard to define) --
that is completely fair is unsustainable. Capitalism,
like it or not, is the only known way to increase a
country's wealth. Fairness decreases a country's capacity
to grow. Darwin would agree.

Cuba and the former soviet union and now europe
are good examples. They all failed in trying to be completely fair
or are in the process of failing.


I think that capitalism + democracy is the most fair system.

Today, unfortunately, capitalism has been perverted by minorities which build money on fears, lies and catastrophes, and that is very bad.

They are clever, and have succeeded in mixing the black and non black money, so that the middle class and the banking systems have become hostages. Those liars are transforming the planet economy into a a pyramidal con.

Lying is part of nature, like cancers and diseases. Defending ourselves against liars is part of nature too.

Bruno








Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net
9/8/2012
Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him
so that everything could function."
----- Receiving the following content -----
From: John Mikes
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2012-09-07, 14:44:26
Subject: Re: There is no such thing as cause and effect

Brent,
I believe there is a difference between (adj) 'fair' or 'unjust' and the (noun) 'fairness', or 'consciousness'. While the nouns (IMO)燼re not adequately identified the adverbs refer to the applied system of correspondence. E.g.: "Fair" to the unjust system. (I don't think we may use the opposite: "unjust" to a 'fair' system in our discussion). As I tried to explain in another post: the 'rich' consume MORE of the country-supplied services than the not-so-rich and pay less taxes (unfair and unjust). Certain big corporations also pay 'less' than the system would require
(in all fairness - proverbially said) ordinarily.
Semantix, OOH!
John M

On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 4:18 PM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
On 9/4/2012 1:12 PM, John Mikes wrote:

It is a 'trap' to falsify the adequate taxing of the 'rich' as a leftist attempt to distributing richness. It does not include more than a requirement for THEM to pay their FAIR share - maybe more than the not-so-rich layers (e.g. higher use of transportation, foreign connections, financial means, etc. - all costing money to the country) in spite of their lower share in the present unjust爐 axation-scheme.
...

And PLEASE, Brent, do not even utter in econo-political discussion the word "FAIRNESS"!

So is it OK if I use "FAIR" and "unjust"?

Brent


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