Hi Roger, Do demons have free will? Or are the evil actions of people an involuntary gift from God? Is there another option?
Craig On Tuesday, September 11, 2012 7:19:23 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote: > > Hi Bruno Marchal > > > That's fine. Although it is a bit out-dated an idea, > I conceive of the evil acting in evil people > metaphorically as demons. > > > Roger Clough, [email protected] <javascript:> > 9/11/2012 > Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him > so that everything could function." > > ----- Receiving the following content ----- > *From:* Bruno Marchal <javascript:> > *Receiver:* everything-list <javascript:> > *Time:* 2012-09-10, 10:26:30 > *Subject:* Re: fairness and sustainability > > Hi Roger, > > > On 09 Sep 2012, at 12:48, Roger Clough wrote: > > Marchal Hi Bruno > > By sin or evil I mean intentionally diminishing the life of others. > > > OK. > > > > If you doubt that that is not the way of the world, you must not watch > the news. > > > I never doubt that, alas. > > > > Evil is not an abstract word, it is very real, and it lives to whatever > extent in each of us. > > > > In two very different ways. In fantasy, with consent, and in act without > consent. > > The good can and will never triumph on the bad, but it can reduce the > harm. > > The extent of evil in you is not the problem, the sin is in the evil act > that actually augment the harm of others. > > The evil is in all on us, you are right. But this does not make all person > a sinner. You became a sinner only if you actually sin (diminish the life > of others), intentionally, or not, I am not "sure" but with some degree or > responsibility, relatively to different realities. > > The better you know the evil in you, the less surprising it is in > unexpected circumstances, making easier the self-control. > > > Some believe that "thinking bad things" is already a sin. But you have to > think on bad things to say that, so it is a bit self-defeating. > > Bruno > > > > > > > Roger Clough, [email protected] <javascript:> > 9/9/2012 > Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him > so that everything could function." > > ----- Receiving the following content ----- > *From:* Bruno Marchal <javascript:> > *Receiver:* everything-list <javascript:> > *Time:* 2012-09-08, 13:54:23 > *Subject:* Re: fairness and sustainability > > > > > On 08 Sep 2012, at 16:41, Roger Clough wrote: > > Hi Bruno Marchal > > Indeed, we are all sinners. > > > > > Hi Roger, > > Saying this can only dilute the responsibility and helps the "sinners". > > I am not sure at all we are all sinners, unless you are using a so weak > sense that it is making every baby already sinning. > > I am not sure about the notion of sin. It looks too much like an easy way > to explain suffering, and it makes many people feeling guilty for no reason > that they can see, and sometimes it can act as a self-prophecy: "given that > I have already sin why not sin again? > > I think that there is only one sin: hurting others without legitimate > concern. > > And most people don't sin, I think, > > Bruno > > > > > > Roger Clough, [email protected] <javascript:> > 9/8/2012 > Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him > so that everything could function." > > ----- Receiving the following content ----- > *From:* Bruno Marchal <javascript:> > *Receiver:* everything-list <javascript:> > *Time:* 2012-09-08, 08:37:30 > *Subject:* Re: fairness and sustainability > > > On 08 Sep 2012, at 12:35, Roger Clough wrote: > > Hi John Mikes > > Here's the dilemma: > > Unfortunately, any system -- with the exception of the oil-rich countries > (where fairness would seem to be hard to define) -- > that is completely fair is unsustainable. Capitalism, > like it or not, is the only known way to increase a > country's wealth. Fairness decreases a country's capacity > to grow. Darwin would agree. > > Cuba and the former soviet union and now europe > are good examples. They all failed in trying to be completely fair > or are in the process of failing. > > > > I think that capitalism + democracy is the most fair system. > > Today, unfortunately, capitalism has been perverted by minorities which > build money on fears, lies and catastrophes, and that is very bad. > > They are clever, and have succeeded in mixing the black and non black > money, so that the middle class and the banking systems have become > hostages. Those liars are transforming the planet economy into a a > pyramidal con. > > Lying is part of nature, like cancers and diseases. Defending ourselves > against liars is part of nature too. > > Bruno > > > > > > > > > Roger Clough, [email protected] <javascript:> > 9/8/2012 > Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him > so that everything could function." > > ----- Receiving the following content ----- > *From:* John Mikes <javascript:> > *Receiver:* everything-list <javascript:> > *Time:* 2012-09-07, 14:44:26 > *Subject:* Re: There is no such thing as cause and effect > > Brent, > I believe there is a difference between (adj) 'fair' or 'unjust' and the > (noun) 'fairness', or 'consciousness'. > While the nouns (IMO)锟�re not adequately identified the adverbs refer to > the applied system of correspondence. > E.g.: "Fair" to the unjust system. (I don't think we may use the opposite: > "unjust" to a 'fair' system in our discussion). > As I tried to explain in another post: the 'rich' consume MORE of the > country-supplied services than the not-so-rich and pay less taxes (unfair > and unjust). Certain big corporations also pay 'less' than the system would > require > (*in all fairness* - proverbially said) ordinarily. > Semantix, OOH! > John M > > On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 4:18 PM, meekerdb <[email protected]<javascript:> > > wrote: > >> On 9/4/2012 1:12 PM, John Mikes wrote: >> >> >> ** >> It is a 'trap' to falsify the adequate taxing of the 'rich' as a *leftist >> attempt to distributing richness*. It does not include more than a >> requirement for THEM to pay their FAIR share - maybe more than the >> not-so-rich layers (e.g. higher use of transportation, foreign connections, >> financial means, etc. - all costing money to the country) in spite of their >> lower share in the present unjust锟�axation-scheme. >> ... >> >> And PLEASE, Brent, do not even utter in econo-political discussion the >> word *"FAIRNESS"!* >> >> >> So is it OK if I use "FAIR" and "unjust"? >> >> Brent >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]<javascript:> >> . >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected] <javascript:>. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >> > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]<javascript:> > . > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected] <javascript:>. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]<javascript:> > . > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected] <javascript:>. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]<javascript:> > . > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected] <javascript:>. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]<javascript:> > . > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected] <javascript:>. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ > > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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