Roger,

I do see other articles where that patient SM is described as having 
amygdala lesions, but the animal studies out there don't make any 
distinction between the results of amygdala lesions and amygdala removal. 
Either way, it seems the amygdala doesn't function.

On Tuesday, September 11, 2012 8:49:23 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote:
>
>
>  
> My thinking on the amygdala as self is that it
> is so very, very basic, as self mnust be.
> The possibility of fear fight-or-flight  is about as basic 
> as you can get, as well as for fighting. 
> You need a sense of self in order to fight .
>

I would think that pain and pleasure would be much more primitive than 
processing fear and uncertainty. In order to be afraid, you have to have 
something to be afraid of. Unpleasant feelings and sensations. What makes 
them unpleasant? Only organisms that can move their bodies need to have 
fight or flight responses, and there is more evidence to suggest that 
plants communicate, which I would consider likely an intelligence of a sort.
 

>  
>  
> Even reptiles have to have some
> sort of sense of self to avoid enemies. 
> So it would be iunteresting to see what hapopens if the
> amygdala is totally removed from a mouse or snake.
>

What happens is they go about their business as usual, except they'll walk 
right up to a predator and start trying to nibble on it.

"We present evidence indicating that the rodent amygdala is involved in 
some types of fear (conditioned fear), but not all types (unconditioned 
fear), "

http://people.usd.edu/~cliff/Courses/Advanced%20Seminars%20in%20Neuroendocrinology/fear/Rosen06.pdf

Here's a study on monkeys "These findings are consistent with the results 
of our studies in nonhuman primates in that removal of the amygdala 
produced animals that were less fearful of inanimate objects as well as 
other monkeys. " - 
The Amygdala, Autism and 
Anxiety<http://psych.colorado.edu/%7Emunakata/csh/Novartis_paper_6-12-02.doc>  
(novartis_paper_6-12-02)


 
>  
>  
> Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net <javascript:>
> 9/11/2012 
> Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him 
> so that everything could function."
>
> ----- Receiving the following content ----- 
> *From:* Craig Weinberg <javascript:> 
> *Receiver:* everything-list <javascript:> 
> *Time:* 2012-09-11, 08:30:14
> *Subject:* Re: The self (the amygdala) and the triune brain
>
>  Nah, the function of the amygdala only contributes one range of sense 
> and motive to the self.
>
>
> http://health.usnews.com/health-news/family-health/brain-and-behavior/articles/2010/12/16/brain-anomaly-leaves-woman-without-fear
>
> This woman has no amygdala, but besides not being able to experience or 
> act out of fear, "she is otherwise cognitively typical and experiences 
> other emotions such as happiness and sadness."
>
> The self is orthogonal to it's shadows (brain, body, cells, clothes, 
> house, planet). The self is a lifetime. It is an experience of significance 
> through time, nothing more or less.
>
>
> On Tuesday, September 11, 2012 7:06:05 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote: 
>>
>>   
>>  
>> The self (the amygdala) and the triune brain
>>  
>> Since neuroscience omits or seems not to feature the most important part 
>> of the brain, the self,
>> I've decided to try to locate it. I believe it is the amygdala.
>>  
>>
>> http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-KY_sgX2gAMY/Tg1zrbUs_fI/AAAAAAAAAfM/-XBfGi_O0RU/s1600/triune%2Bbrain.gif
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>   
>> The amygdala is a small brain organ which is not pictured in the above 
>> diagram
>> but is in the center of the reptelian brain in the above diagram. In fact 
>> it is at the
>> well-protected center of the entire brain, where common sense, overall 
>> access to
>> brain functions, and necessary survival tells you it ought to be.  Its 
>> function is to alert
>> you to anything dangerous in your path such as a snake. Thus it must have 
>> two functions, a cognitive one to tell a branch from a snake, and
>> an affective one (fear) to cause you to jump back from the snake.
>>  
>> amygdala = cognitive + affective
>>  
>> Although neuroscience does not consider consciousness to be a dipole as 
>> below:
>>  
>> Cs = subject + object
>>  
>>  
>> It is a logical necessity. My suggestion is that the subject is the 
>> amygdala
>> and the object is any needed part of the brain (you can find maps of 
>> these 
>> through Google.
>>  
>> In this model, consciousness is at the bottom based on feelings, 
>> such as the sense of passing time,or self-centered fear. Above or 
>> beyond are
>> the cognitive functions necessary for thinking and image perception.
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>   
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net
>> 9/11/2012 
>> Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him 
>> so that everything could function."
>>
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